(Thursday, April 19, 2018 6:18:51 PM)
The Knicks haven’t issued a timetable for Kristaps Porzingis’ return, but their owner didn’t rule out the franchise player missing all of next season.
(Thursday, April 19, 2018 10:09:02 PM)
The TNT crew is trying to help out Kenny Smith’s bid to become the Knicks’ next head coach. After being teased on the air by his colleagues late Thursday night during the NBA postgame show on TNT, Smith confirmed he will be interviewing for the Knicks job Friday in the Big Apple. “I know how…
(Thursday, April 19, 2018 7:39:53 PM)
David Lee will leave for the French Open in 10 days. He hopes before heading to Paris with fiancée Caroline Wozniacki that Mark Jackson is named the Knicks head coach. The ex-Knicks/ex-Warriors power forward played for Jackson in Golden State for all three of Jackson’s seasons. “He has a very smart perspective looking at the…
(Thursday, April 19, 2018 2:16:28 PM)
Tequila, anyone? In a 23-minute documentary that went online Thursday about his rehab, Janis Porzingis, Kristaps’ brother and agent, revealed the night of the ACL-tear diagnosis, his entourage needed a ceremonial shot to absorb the devastating news. Janis said he took a tequila bottle and poured shots for his brother Martins, Kristaps and their longtime…
(Thursday, April 19, 2018 11:17:55 AM)
At least now coaches interviewing for the Knicks’ job should know now a possibility exists — although unlikely and a worst-case scenario — Kristaps Porzingis will sit out all next season to rest his left knee. Not that the Knicks’ job was bouquets and roses before owner James Dolan spoke his piece to The Post’s…
[NYDN] James Dolan reminding everyone why Knicks remain so dysfunctional (Thursday, April 19, 2018 9:38:40 PM)
James Dolan unplugged — not on stage mind you — is still the best James Dolan.
[NYTimes] Masked Joel Embiid Leads 76ers to Easy Win Over Heat (Friday, April 20, 2018 4:26:32 AM)
Philadelphia’s center, playing in his first playoff game, had 23 points. In other action, the Warriors and Pelicans both opened up 3-0 leads.
[NYTimes] Gregg Popovich Is Absent for Game 3 After Wife’s Death (Friday, April 20, 2018 4:29:50 AM)
An assistant coach, Ettore Messina, led the team on Thursday in Popovich’s absence. LeBron James, Kevin Durant and others paid tribute to Erin Popovich.
(Thursday, April 19, 2018 8:30:04 PM)
Knicks owners James Dolan admits he has no idea when Kristaps Porzingis will return– he might even sit out all of next season.
(Thursday, April 19, 2018 11:45:57 AM)
MSG executive chairman James Dolan is currently searching for two head coaches, with the Knicks and Rangers letting Jeff Hornacek and Alain Vigneault go just hours after they completed their final regular season games.
81 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.04.20)”
I don’t quite get how people here are down on Cousins but high on Embiid. Embiid’s 23 year old season was almost identical to Cousins’ 24 year old season.
the pendulum on cousins seems to swing too far against him at times, but this comparison really suffers for two reasons. one is that embiid is a consistent game-changing defensive force while cousins does a lot of great and terrible things defensively that usually but not always nets positive and is never within a country mile of the DPOY Embiid level.
the second is that when cousins finished that year he had played over 10K minutes of NBA basketball while Embiid has played 2600 minutes and didn’t really pick up the game until he was 14. age is the main factor in development curves but it isn’t the only factor.
He’s unquestionably a better fit next to Davis. He’s a good #2 scorer that provides better spacing without as much overlap and downside that you get with Cousins.
How many more years is it before Lebron falls off a cliff? I’m thinking 2. What he’s done is amazing so far with the miles he’s got on his legs.
See, it’s that part in bold that I was disagreeing with. KP has struggled immensely without coming close to feeling what KAT is feeling now.
KP struggles against basic, regular season, not-that-intense defense. KAT is struggling against playoff defense from the league’s top team while having to keep up with Houston’s uber elite and efficient offense. It’s an incredibly difficult task. And if KP were faced with it right now, well, I think he’d embarrass himself.
Your point was that KP is somehow ahead of KAT because defenses focus on KP during the regular season; my opinion is that (at least offensively) KP is light years behind KAT, and that the situations that KP struggles with aren’t nearly as formidable as what KAT is facing now.
Embiid >>> Cousins
Sixers look nasty. The Atlantic Division is going to be a tough row to hoe for a long time it appears.
Where is this coming from? All I’ve seen from Mills and Perry is “no comment.”
In my opinion, there are two bellwether moments coming up that will tell us all we need to know about Mills and Perry:
– who they hire as coach
– what they offer Kristaps Porzingis
If KP gets the mega max, I’m adjusting my expectations for the Mills/Perry era to zero. He should be on Giannis / Victor Oladipo type contracts, and it shouldn’t even be a debate.
Phil Jackson had the same situation. He blew the coaching hire and he gave Melo the mega max. Everything after that was window dressing.
Hubert,
When teams look at the T-Wolves they typically probably say, “If we focus on stopping Butler, KAT is going to kills us and if we focus on stopping KAT, Butler is going to kill us”. Plus they still have to worry about Teague or Wiggins going off. The result is that Towns doesn’t typically get double teamed much even though he’s more effective than KP. Sometimes he still even gets to stand wide open beyond the 3 point line and take a totally uncontested 3.
When KP got off to his hot start last year, teams looked at the Knicks and said, “if we stop KP they are toast”. Our number 2 scorer is Hardaway. He’s probably closer to Wiggins than Butler. When he went down, it was more like “If we stop KP, who are they going to give to? Lance Thomas? lmao”.
So KP WAS facing intense pressure, help defense, double teams, fewer wide open looks etc.. even though it was regular season and he’s not even as good as Towns. The game plan was STOP KP.
He handled it poorly. He kept forcing up terrible shots and it killed his efficiency. Of course, maybe you can argue that a terrible shot from KP is better than a good one from Lance Thomas or Jarrett Jack, but that’s another story. lol The “hope” is that he’ll learn from that experience that he has to pass and eventually be surrounded by players that will make the other team “pay” for helping and doubling off them.
I think you can even argue that Damian Lillard is having trouble in his series because they are doubling him more often.
@5
Even if Lebron or another big FA never comes, with the way Saric is playing they might already have their big 3 all under the age of 24. The guy turned himself from a -0.1 VORP to 2.0 this season. His sophomore leap is something I don’t remember seeing recently, from just barely a replacement player to very solid 3rd option.
When I watched KP this year, I never thought his problem on offense was that he was getting overwhelmed by opposing defenses keyed in on and double teaming him. I thought his problem was he decided to channel Carmelo Anthony, shoot contested jumpers when he was single teamed, choose not to pass out of double teams, and generally have no idea about what constitutes a good shot.
I would be curious to see if there is data on the frequency of double teaming to back this up. I thought he was bad on offense in pretty normal situations, not because he was being excessively double teamed.
Agree on Saric. Far from unprecedented but a notable leap for sure.
If I were Lebron I am not sure where I would see a better chance of winning a title.
If I’m Philly I wouldn’t sign LeBron. Simmons and LeBron imo would diminish each other’s effectiveness. Maybe they’d be good enough to still bludgeon teams through sheer talent, but I think it’s obvious that if you just keep adding wings that can shoot around Simmons and Embiid they’re already impossible to defend. George going there would be really interesting.
Enes Kanter and Lance Thomas for Hasan Whiteside who says no?
I just wanna say that I watched that game against Houston and Tim Thibodeau did absolutely nothing to put KAT in position to be successful. Thibs just attempted to run clearouts for KAT to go 1v1 but every time he’d make a move the defense would converge on him. It’s 2018 and we’re still running isolations, y’all. I think the talks of his struggles are overblown. If you run isolations against a top 10 defense, you’re gonna have a bad time.
@12
I mean, do we even say yes after watching how he has been playing? He’s still owed 1 more year + a player option for 27 million…
LeBron is obviously not the best fit possible along with Simmons in terms of playstyle, but it’s LeBron, if he wants to go to your team you find a way. I’m beyond doubting anything about LeBron so I truly believe he would just make it work somehow.
12
Not bad but I don’t think it helps either team. Miami probably wants something extra for taking on lance.
If I’m Philly I’m not offering LeBron a contract. What they have in Fultz, Simmons, Covington, Saric, and Embiid shouldn’t be compromised by that egomaniac. I’m sure they’ll find a way to win a championship without him.
Kind of crazy that the Philly hype has gotten to a point where you can sort of say they don’t need Lebron with a straight face.
Going to be an interesting offseason.
Also, Simmons is awesome.
https://twitter.com/cjzero/status/987119827419566080?tfw_site=ringer&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theringer.com%2Fnba%2F2018%2F4%2F19%2F17260392%2Fsixers-heat-beef-game-3
If Philly signs Lebron they may win between 1-3 championships over the next 3 years. When Lebron is finally put out to pasture, they will still have Simmons and Embiid. They will be in a position to win more. I don’t see how you can worry about fit or Lebron being a pain in the ass when we could be talking about multiple championships and not giving up Embiid or Simmons.
Yeah as a free agent when you pretty much already have the cap space I can’t see how it’s not a total no-brainer.
The Sixers still have assets, they could easily trade Covington for example or even future picks or Fultz if something huge comes up. There’s no way you pass up the opportunity od getting LeBron unless something truly bizarre happens and they win the championship this year for example.
Next stage of Lebron’s career is going to be fascinating. During his stint in Cleveland his offensive versatility has suffered because whether by his own choice or the coaches they don’t run much of an offensive system. They mostly just give him the ball at the top and let him orchestrate through pick and roll stuff. It’s hard to blame them because it has obviously worked extremely well but I don’t think he can continue carrying that sort of load much longer. Certainly the wear of it has already really compromised him defensively.
He doesn’t have to play that way though. At Miami’s peak they used him in a way more versatile role. He set lots of screens, posted up more, took more catch and shoot shots and the overall flow of the offense was way more dynamic. If he was willing to go back to more of that style I think he could mesh really nicely on that Philly team actually. I also think it would be better for his longevity (as would going to a team where he could afford to play 30 minutes a night instead of 40+). Not sure he wants to go back to that style though as I think he prefers playing more of the orchestrator role he’s in now.
I never wanted Whiteside and I want him even less now.
That contract is a disaster. We are massively better off riding out Kanter for another year and getting that cap space than getting tied down for 3 years with a player that may have “issues” and whose skill set is becoming less valuable by the day. There’s a reason SPO is not playing him.
I saw the Sixers game last night too. Man, am I jealous of their organization. Simmons, Embiid, Saric, and Covington were just tearing the Heat up. If Fultz gets over whatever the hell is up with him (does anyone know anything? it’s too weird.), that team is scary good.
Re LeBron: No way I mess with that team to get LeBron, since they’d have to give up pieces to sign his $. Redick and Amir Johnson take up $34M that’s off the books this summer (compare that to Noah/Lee/Lance=37M/yr, all put on the books for 3 yrs each). So, they could. But only if they don’t mess with their core in any way.
The Sixers are not giving up any of Fultz/Embiid/RoCo/Simmons for a LeBron rental. They are looking like, injury risk aside, a 5-7 year contender. They have Bird rights for literally everyone and Embiid is on a team-friendly contract, risk-wise.
They absolutely would give LeBron every dollar on a 1+1 to turn their team into the hands-down favorite to win the East next year, but it would be insane to fuck with the lineup for a guy that old. The Rockets and Warriors will basically be the same next year, but the Raptors likely can’t keep their 10-deep lineup intact for long.
I have loved Amir Johnson as a value contract, and Redick was a brilliant move (throwing big money at a 1-year, risk-free contract), but they’re not worth keeping when you could have LeBron or Simmons destroying the point-forward position for 48 minutes a game. Simmons is definitely more Magic than LeBron, but he ain’t far off, and that ain’t a bad thing.
LeBron’s going to be good forever a la Karl Malone. Not .250 WS48 LeBron, but a player who, on the right team, could win another championship. His body was made to play hard and fast and above the rim. I don’t know how he continues to do it, but we could have said the same thing about Malone (or Stockton) in 2003.
Cousins is like Carmelo, to me: an above-average player making superstar money. He does a lot of cool shit on the court and his big nights do a great job of helping us forget about the 8-27 shooting nights with 7 turnovers and 2 techs.
Whiteside has pathetic body language… His fire comes and goes, and goes more than it comes…
Where do we think LeBron is actually going? I honestly have no idea. I guess I’d keep Cleveland as the slight favorite, but there don’t seem to be nearly as many good landing spots for him as there were in 2010.
If you assume that his two criteria are 1) ability to give him max or near-max money and 2) being in position to compete for a title, it seems like Philly, Houston, Cleveland, LAL are the only realistic teams in the mix.
At this point, Simmons and Embiid having LeBron on their team is like when Magic and Worthy had Kareem. He would be the cheat code they don’t really need, but they would end up leaning up him a lot anyway.
As a neutral, I want to see this Sixers team develop on its own.
Odds are the Knicks will try to make Porzingis into a top-5 NBA player by giving him a top-5 NBA contract.
Melo II.
I mean KP actually plays defense and has a discernible positive impact on that side of the floor. I understand the urge to compare him to Melo because of his shot selection, but he’s actually a value add on the side of the floor where Melo was a drag.
Philly also has 2 first round and 4 second round picks in this year’s draft. Their possibilities are endless.
Watching the 76ers, Celtics, and Raptors play so well puts a lot of pressure on the Knicks to nail these next two draft picks and pick the right head coach, that’s for sure. Next year the 76ers and Celtics are going to be the first and second best teams in the conference, and Toronto is probably #3. That gives us 12 games we should already count as losses. Landing in the top 3 of the lottery should be a priority for us because Ben Simmons and the 76ers are about to lay waste to the conference. We need a chance at RJ Barrett or Cam Reddish if we want to compete.
Yeah, we tend to forget it but we’re drafting 9th this year and Philly is drafting 10th, plus the 26th.
All Colangelo has to do is not screw up too much, and he’s been doing a good job lately.
I could see Philly being real hot for Mikal Bridges as a ready to go from the jump 3-and-D wing. If he’s on the board a 9 and Philly offered up both picks for him I’d probably be all over that if Wendell Carter was still on the board.
Bridges would be perfect for them. I would definitely do a swap if they offered.
@30 yes, exactly! We haven’t been tanking nearly enough. Or winning trades (although the Melo trade could be the first win in a long time.)
I’m still hopeful about this new regime for now. I’m hoping they have a kp tank plan in place for next year. I think Mikal/Bamba/Carter will be a great piece, but we need a legit star, one that usually comes in the top 3 picks.
I would take Hassan for Noah and lance or Lee but they wouldn’t take that offer. I guy can dream though.
There’s a lot of truth to this. And the double teams added a much bigger obstacle for KP to overcome.
He has other issues too. He needs to toughen up. D. Wade threw him to the floor three times. He needs to start throwing some sharp elbows. “Back the fuck up”!!!
And for all the talk of him being a great defender, he does a horrible job at closing out on the perimeter.
That being said, I love him on the knicks and think they have to do everything they can to keep him. Yes, max. Is there a choice?
It’s kind of crazy that Whiteside is playing so little, but he is so goddamn lazy on the court. The sulking is real, too. I’m sure he would help the Knicks win 5-7 more games, but who cares? Give me a 10-win season.
That Hassan contract is looking bad, like Noah and deng bad
He really is awful closing out, which isn’t surprising given he’s 7’3″. This is further evidence that he needs to play the 5 long term, particularly if he loses any mobility from the ACL year. As a 5, he’s already a pretty stellar defender and will probably only get better as he adds strength.
1. Please no Whiteside. He’ll be irrelevant before that contract is up (if not next year).
2. KP is still VERY skinny. That’s why he gets thrown around so much. In his new Youtube video about his injury, you get a good look at his body. He’s playing with toothpick legs and arms. The good news is that he’s already working hard on his strength and trying to gain more weight. According to his trainer, the goal is to add 15 pounds AND improve his speed for next year.
3. KP’s shot selection did suck last year, but he’s 22, a bright kid, not arrogant, and hungry as all hell to get better. If we are still having this conversation after his next full season, then we have a problem. But right now I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt. He had no idea what to do when thrust into the role of being the #1 scoring option on a team with Jarrett Jack and Lance Thomas as options. When he has a PG getting him in the ball in good spots and he has two other legitimate scorers on the court with him, it’s going to be different. If he has a good coach and improves further like I think he will, he’s going to be a very good player on offense also.
You would too if Jack was the PG and Kanter was the last line of defense. 🙂
He’s reluctant to come out. He spends a ton of time covering for the fact that much of the rest of the team sucks at defense. All that said, I agree with SJK. He’s a big boy and no matter how much they improve his speed some of the smaller PFs are going to be quicker. His future is at C. He can stay with all those bigger guys wherever they play. But he has to get stronger to handle them.
KP is a great rim protector.
As long as rebounding is a critical factor in defending, he is not a great defender.
I like Porzingis. He brings a lot to the table. He just doesn’t come close to deserving a 5 year/25% contract next summer.
Does anyone have any podcast recommendations, sports or otherwise?
I agree, KP’s too long and gawky to close out on quicker PF’s.
I just don’t see him playing the 5 against traditional centers. Unless he gets a lot stronger – and tougher – it would be a nightmare for him. Guards out muscle him. Strong centers will throw him around like a rag doll. And he’s averse to contact. On PNR’s he always slides away to avoid contact, instead of taking a guy out like most bigs do.
He’s more comfortable at the 5 when there’s a less physical defender.
I also agree that KP’s determined and hell bent on improving. I’m a big fan, but like every player he’s got flaws. He really needs another big talent to play alongside.
It would be horrible to lose him.
Speaking about Whiteside
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I’m not sure there is a good fit, he isn’t high energy like Capela who is happy just rim running all game long. He doesn’t change the game on D like Embiid or Gobert, and he can’t shoot from perimeter like Porzingis.
Someone here definitely already knows the answer to this, to help answer the KP getting better with a new PG, system, coach:
– How much do advanced stats change in big men going to or from good teams, PG, or coach?
Looking at Clippers big men, Blake, and DeAndre, there seems to be a change with and without Chris Paul. I can’t think of another good example, though.
I guess you can argue that Amare was more efficient with Nash than in NY without him, but part of that was probably his normal decline.
The one study I read suggested there wasn’t much variance in production based on system, coach, teammates etc.. but I’m not buying it. Sometimes, when you look at data in aggregate, it will tell you one thing, but when you break the data down into sub groups, it will tell you something else. Most studies don’t (or can’t) control for all the variables, but to really understand something, imo you have to dig very deep.
Mike Budenholzer is interviewing for the Knicks job.
interviewing bud is a surprise. this ups the number of interview announcements in the can’t really complain or better category.
1. can’t really complain or better
bud
stackhouse
fizdale
blatt
2. complain
jackson
woodson
kenny smith
Kenny Smith is not a bad candidate for the job. If we’re to look at guys who came into the league from the broadcasting booth with no head coaching experience, we have Mark Jackson (who from an Xs and Os perspective coached a great defense and developed the NBA’s best backcourt and Draymond Green), Steve Kerr, and Doc Rivers. That’s not bad company to be in. I think he’d be an intriguing hire, and let’s not chuck his interview up as “typical Knicks behavior.” Darryl Morey interviewed him two years ago.
@50 Kenny Smith’s communication skills on the air are a little troubling.
I’m just saying. It’s a short list, but it’s a really good one.
If we’re to look at guys who came into the league from the broadcasting booth with no head coaching experience, we have Mark Jackson (who from an Xs and Os perspective coached a great defense and developed the NBA’s best backcourt and Draymond Green), Steve Kerr, and Doc Rivers. That’s not bad company to be in.
i mean come on. why not just look for a guy named Red, the base rate seems to be off the charts
Darryl Morey interviewed him two years ago.
getting an interview isn’t a thing you put on linkedin for good reason. there were lots of reasons to interview kenny smith such as the fans in houston chanting we want kenny and leslie alexander liking him personally.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2771410-athletes-smoke-weed-interviews-nba-nfl-420?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial
Well aaaah’ll be….
I think there are different degrees or intensities of defense a player faces as he improves offensively. There’s some mid-season adjustments when the word gets out that a player is burning it up (KP), and scouts get to compile reports to their teams, who then develop or adjust their defensive game plans when they see the player (again). But then there’s the playoffs, where a single team can dedicate their scouting, adjustments and counter-adjustments to said player for anywhere from 4 to 7 games in a row, roughly one to two weeks straight. So while I agree that KP started to see changes in defensive strategy mid-season, I don’t believe it’s on the same level as what KAT is facing.
That said: with the comparisons of KP and KAT, do the Knicks have a player as good as Jimmy Buckets as Option 1A? I don’t think so.
The narrative on KP here is that he shot well to start the season and fell off a cliff with bad shot selection when in reality he seemed to be figuring it out and improving his shot selection when he got hurt.
His 1st 24 games – 57.1 TS% – 28.9 pts/36
His next 13 games – 45.8% TS% – 20.1 pts/36
His last 11 games – 57.0% TS% – 24.2 pts/36
I think Budenholzer has done really, really well in Atlanta. Certainly better than all of the Blatt, Jackson, Fiz group did in their first stops by my estimation. He’d be first by a decent margin on my wish list (ignoring JVG which I don’t think has any basis in reality) if it weren’t for the pesky topic of compensation.
I just think the value of coaches is too tough to assess for me to be willing to give up a decent pick for, particularly when the Knicks are asset strapped as it is. If all they want is some kind of protected 2nd-rounder because they’re ready to cut ties but feel like they need to say they got something, I’d go for it. But I suspect they’ll be thinking first rounder or at least a high 2nd like the Bulls pick. I’d pass on that.
My choice in coaches would probably be:
Messina
Blatt
Budenholzer
Fizdale
Stackhouse
In that order but any of those coaches would totally make me happy.
I say no to Smith because I think especially in NY you need some coaching experience, I never liked Woodson and Jackson would be a disaster. What we need is no drama, Jackson would be drama like Phil or Isiah.
Budz would be the best Knicks coach since D’Antoni and might even be a little better than D’Antoni. However, like thenamestsam notes, if they have to give up compensation for him, it doesn’t make sense to get him. Not only that, but it doesn’t make any sense for Atlanta to not get compensation for him, right? Why let him leave for nothing?
Man, I would be so thrilled if they got Budz, who is one of the best development guys in the entire NBA. Wow, that’d be amazing. But I can’t talk myself into it, because the cost is too high. This team is too shitty to give up picks for a coach.
I think I read he is owed 13 million dollars for the next two years and doesn’t want to be there nor does Atlanta want to pay that cost for a ‘developmental’ coach……
Oh, they’re definitely fine with him leaving in general for that exact reason, but when you have an in demand coach under contract, you need to get a draft pick back for him. Who was the last guy whose team didn’t get a draft pick for him? The Knicks even gave up a draft pick to get Scott Perry, and he wasn’t nearly as in demand as Budz is.
maybe the hawks would like a recent lottery pick point guard who is on the cusp of figuring out how to shoot and defend and pass and finish at the rim
It’s too soon to give up on Ntilikina 😉
@62 For a second I thought you were talking about Frank, and I was like, WTF? Then I noticed the reference to defense… Oh, fine then.
plus I said he was a point guard 😉
We may be interviewing some bad candidates, but we’re also interviewing some good candidates
Apparently James Borrego spent 30 days as the head coach of the Magic and I don’t think I’ve ever heard his name before
According to Realgm, Budenholzer withdrew from consideration as the Suns’ next coach.
Another data point showing that Budes is smart. He’s probably too smart to coach this shit team too though. Maybe he wants to go to the Bucks?
The Bucks seem about perfect for him.
Did Lebron decide he was done with this game at the two minute mark?
Edit: he did just hit a 3
Nice response from the Pacers.
Did not remember Jose Calderon was on the Cavs. Let’s get him to coach the Knicks.
no timeout and you get a jr fling
why is Lebron just standing there posting up bojan?
Lebron is an incredible passer, but he really does turn over the ball just a little too much.
He scored 10 out of the last 13 points the Cavs scored
I was wondering why the name seemed familiar! Yeah, I remember actually liking him when he was coaching Orlando.
Boy Wonder and his low talent squad of high lotto picks didn’t have a great half in Milwaukee.
I really hope we end up with Fizdale, but Budenholzer and Borrego would both be fine coaching choices.
If there’s no pick attachment, then Budz is head and shoulders above everyone else. He’s a top of the line coach. The kind of guy where you’re A. confident that your guy is going to be better than their guy most of the time and B. most importantly, he excels at player development and, well, we all know how badly the Knicks need a guy who is good at that.
But yeah, if there’s pick attachment, I’d just as soon see them go with Fizdale or Borrego, as well.