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It Will Have Been Enough

Back during one of the many lean periods in recent Knick history, I was a benchwarmer here at Knickerblogger. I wasted my evenings watching terrible basketball and writing about the likes of Jeremy Tyler, Andrea Bargnani, Beno Udrih, Langston Galloway. A young Iman Shumpert was the only bright spot we had. I may or may not have compared him to Michael Finley at one point. Who can say? (The archives are deleted, right? You made sure to empty the recycling bin?)

Most Knicks fans I know didn’t ever really dream of a championship, per se. Too improbable with Dolan and the rest of it. For a team that was a laughingstock for the vast majority of two-plus decades, we just wanted a competitive team, one that could maybe win a playoff series, with fun and rootable players who wouldn’t embarrass us and who would remind us vaguely of the 90s Knicks teams that now—if we’re being honest—have a more outsized imprint on Knicks lore than is probably healthy at this point. The idea: Be tough, play with heart, and ultimately lose to that generation’s Michael Jordan but not for lack of trying.

That the Knicks ultimately won a title not with, say, LeBron and KD deciding to team up one year because New York was the right business play for their investment portfolios and personal brands, but with the rare sort of underdog team without the massive star—2004 Pistons? 2011 Mavs?—makes it even more special. Some undersized college friends who won the National Championship right around the time no one cared about it anymore? Teaming up with a weirdo from England? Sprinkle them together with some former second-round draft picks and a kid from Christ the King? That’s your winner, in the age of Jokic and SGA and Wemby? Really?

I’ll stop soon. No one wants to hear how New York City was the real underdog all along, which is very much not true. But Brunson really is the avatar for at least how this fan base *likes* to think about itself (probably incorrectly), or at least the type of leader about whom we dreamt and romanticized. Undersized, not very fast, doubted at every turn, impossibly clutch, extremely wholesome, selfless on the court (consistently the only star amidst a sea of role players in the top 10 in charges taken per year) and off (have you heard that the dude gave up $113 million? Personally, I would have given up $0.). Folk hero stuff, truly.

Last night, a stranger at the restaurant I was watching at came up crying and gave me a hug, telling me about how her dad, a Knicks diehard, died two years ago having never seen a title. I’m guessing we’ve all heard similar stories. The world is cruel and indifferent and in some real senses collapsing around us. Basketball shouldn’t mean this much. But for better or worse, it does. This morning, I’m terribly hungover and sleep deprived and looking at my 1-year-old daughter, my good luck charm, smiling with her pigtails in blue and orange bands. I hope desperately she sees many Knicks championships in her life. But for me personally, this will have been enough.

239 replies on “It Will Have Been Enough”

Basketball doesn’t mean much.

Loving something so much and living through the trials and agonies for what seems like a lifetime, only to finally, against all odds, see that loyalty repaid in the most emotional and visceral ways, that is the stuff love is made from.

I love this team.

4

Great post!

Somehow the Knicks had the best point differential in playoff history and also have the 1st, 3rd, and 5th biggest comebacks in Finals history.

It’s going to take a while to unpack it all but we won’t have to talk about bass lures or macrame all summer. Could relive this playoff run for months. I plan to.

5

Very nice post!

This really does remind me of some of those teams like the 2004 Pistons, where they didn’t necessarily look like worldbeaters going into the playoffs, but once there, they kicked ass, and that 2004 Pistons team was right back in the Finals in 2005.

2

Love this team, love this city, love you all, and the latter will remain the case even when we’re at each others’ throats over draft pick trades in a few weeks 🧡 💙

3

Such a good post. Thx. We are all Spartacus 😉

For years I’ve argued (irrationally?) against acquiring every hypothetical “superstar” proposed to save us. I don’t want Giannis. I didn’t want Melo. I didn’t want KD. I didn’t (don’t?) want LeBron.

I’m a homer to a fault, and I know Jalen and KAT are certainly “superstar” enough acquisitions to complicate my poor logic. But, as you say, we still *feel like homegrown underdogs repping the greatest city in the world. And I love it.

Zman!!! You glorious bastard. Get in here!!! Based on your recommendation I convinced the wife to come to Excellence El Carmen. Even got one of those double decker rooms in front of the ocean, You’ve been cranky as fuck all year but you pulled a Jalen Brunson type of performance with this recommendation my brother. Also I’m on 2 hours sleep after that game last night so I apologize for any unpleasantries lol

1

It really is crazy to think about it, how completely out of it I was during so many points in the regular season, just for this team to come together at the perfect time.

Mike Brown deserves so much credit for his approach and to see him rewarded after everybody wrote him off, with a team full of guys who were written off at some point in their careers, is such a happy moment.

I guess we’re commenting here today?

In the tradition of classic websites like Is Abe Vigoda Alive?, I really want someone to create a Did The Knicks Win the 2026 NBA Championship? site, where the only thing on it is the word “Yes.”

1

Shout out

1. Leon Rose for targetting players with the right personalities and basketball skills to compliment each other and make the whole greater than the parts. For being willing to take some criticism along the way for trading popular players, paying steep prices for the RIGHT guy and managing the cap well enough to get it all done.

2. Thibs for creating a culture of hard work, team oriented play and being part of selecting the “right” players.

3. Mike Brown and his coaching staff for managing the minutes well and bringing a fresh team into the playoffs. For learning quickly enough to make adjustments to both the offense and defense and enhance both, but especially the defense. There isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell I would have predicted the Knicks playing elite defense in the playoffs with Towns and Brunson.

4. All the players for coming together at the exact right time, playing as hard as is humanly possible, and being willing sacrifice “touches, points, minutes or even money” for the greater good.

5. James Dolan for being willing to spend whatever it took and for finally hiring competent basketball, financial and medical people and then trusting them.

6. Clyde, Breen, Hahn, Wally, Monica McNutt, Bill Pidto etc… for making the games so entertaining

Thank you.

2

This championship has meant so much to all of us. I’ve been trying to put into words what it has meant to me. But I’ll just say this.

Many of you might remember back in 2020 that I lost my first born daughter when she was 2 months old.

During that time, my wife and I went to a bi-weekly Zoom support group. It helped but the thing that I realized about it was that 90 percent of the people who went to it were women. A lot of times the husbands would come on for one or two meetings and then drop off.

One of the first places I went was here, to tell all of you about that. The support you all gave me during that time was incredible.

It was only like 4 months later that my wife and I found out we were going to have another baby. It was exciting but also terrifying. I was still in the middle of the worst grief I had ever experienced in my life and was absolutely terrified of becoming a father again.

During that covid lock down time, my wife and i watched a lot of movies and TV. But that was hard sometimes. Shows and movies would often have story lines that triggered us and even things you wouldn’t think would trigger your grief would sneak up on you.

But then when the NBA season began that fall, the knicks were good! I mean we weren’t even really good, just decent, but that Thibs led team played so hard every night and for the first time it looked like The Knicks had a plan. Watching those games and then coming here and commenting with all of you..it helped me get through those very dark times.

A few years later, my dad passed away (in 2023). My dad was the one who got me to love basketball as a kid. We were Kentucky wildcat fans but he and I also watched a ton of NBA games. Back in the 80’s when I was a little kid, I wasn’t really a Knicks fan per say. I just loved the good teams and stars. Showtime Lakers, MJ and Dominique, the pistons and bad boys, and Ewing. But then my brother moved to NYC in 91 and I became a real Knicks fan and so did my dad.

When I lived in NYC I was a season ticket hold during the STAT and Melo years. I took my dad to MSG on Christmas for the Bulls game (before the Melo trade) when STAT went off and Landry Fields had a 4 point play. After that, my Dad was a full blown Knicks fan and we got to go to several more games together at MSG during the 54 win season.

He stuck with them too, even when they were awful.

He passed away a little after the 2023 playoffs. But before he was hospitalized, one of the last things he got to watch was us beat Cleveland in the first round. I remember one of the last conversations we had, he said “I think with Brunson we can win a title. Not this year, but eventually.”

After we won on Saturday, I immediately thought of him and how much he would have loved this team. But I also thought about all of you and how much you all helped me get through that tough time in my life back in 2020.

So thank you, New York Knicks and thank you Knickerblogger. No one deserves this more than us.

7

In a big game, who in the NBA do you want over Jalen Brunson? At this point I cannot think of anyone.

Since we’re juggling threads again, and because being the first team to win the NBA Cup and Title in the same year actually means a lot to me, I’m going to bring this over from this morning, when “They Did It” was still the top thread:

I take your point that the IST is still new and hasn’t yet earned the full weight of history. But part of how something becomes meaningful is by treating it as meaningful.

I’m immensely proud that we won both. The Cup meant a lot to me at the time, and I think celebrating them together adds to the championship rather than watering it down.

The Cup is modeled on soccer, where doing the double is a massive distinction among champions. Teams that win the double are set apart from teams that win only the title. And the first team to win the double — Preston North End in 1889 — is still remembered for doing so.

It may seem less meaningful now because the tournament is new, but the double will gain significance over time. To me, the only thing that would diminish what this team accomplished is dismissing the Cup part of it as meaningless.

Addendum:

When Sir Barton won the first Triple Crown, people weren’t even calling it the Triple Crown yet. The significance of winning all three came later. Yet they still remember him.

That’s my point about the Cup. This will become meaningful over time, even if it doesn’t carry that full weight right now. Dismissing it as meaningless by refusing to hang the banner would be disrespectful to the players who earned it. Because it certainly wasn’t meaningless to them.

I would hope Dolan doesn’t do that over some petty feud with Silver. He should be helping create the legend of this historic feat, not dismissing it.

To be fair, I would also consider raising a “best point differential in playoff history” banner and leaving it up til someone tops it. But that would be excessive 🙂 Celebrating the double is not.

1

My Finals commemoration shirt is in the mail, so going with the Cup commemoration shirt today due to my firm beliefs that 1) the Cup matters and 2) more importantly, being the first team ever to pull of the double is awesome.

Wemby and the Spurs may own the NBA for the next decade, but for right now we own them harder than any team has ever owned any other team, ever.

Yeah I think they should raise a cup banner too. Why not? If we had not won the championship, then no. But opening night they can raise the cup banner, then the ECF champs banner, then the NBA champs banner. Rule of three!

1

Guys…. WE WON THE MOTHERFUCKING NBA FINALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1

I’m hardly the first person to mention it, but I feel the need to highlight Jordan Clarkson’s contributions because, as Fred Katz has mentioned, his transformation this season is a good microcosm of the team’s writ large.

In the last 16 games of the regular season, he averaged 17.6 PTS/36, 4.4 TRB/36 (including 2.6 ORB/36), and 3.4 AST/36 while maintaining a 2PT% fueled .583 TS%. Both the numbers and the eye test indicated he was arguably our best POA defender during that time. The team went 12-4, finishing out the season strong after a stretch in which it looked like we were truly teetering.

He was mostly out of the rotation in the playoffs because when we became the ’96 Bulls he couldn’t quite make the cut (though he did have some big minutes for us in game 1 against the Cavs and game 3 of the finals), but that dude should still never pay for a drink in New York and I’d love to bring him back. He’s a pro.

2

I agree with Hubert on the NBA Cup.

The NBA Cup may or may not eventually become significant. I understand that the team wanted to prioritize the NBA championship and chose to not hang the banner up as a symbol of that greater goal.

But as I said in the championship game thread, they are the first to win both. That could easily be something not duplicated very often. IMO both banners should go up. If the NBA Cup eventually dies out, they could always take it down later, but winning both is a significant accomplishment and imo it should be celebrated now they also achieved the greater goal.

3

Clarkson ended up being a terrific singing. He had a great impact on the team, even when he was benched a while and transformed his game. Excellent job by him all around. Amazing how some of these guys changed their game around

3

If you put up division and conference championship banners, you put up NBA Cup banners.

1

I’m hardly the first person to mention it, but I feel the need to highlight Jordan Clarkson’s contributions because, as Fred Katz has mentioned, his transformation this season is a good microcosm of the team’s writ large. that dude should still never pay for a drink in New York and I’d love to bring him back. He’s a pro.

j-o-r-d-a-n c-l-a-r-k-s-o-n shall never be uttered in the state of new york henceforth

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nnvAa-LL8gE

4

This year was like late 90s Yankees where all the moves and vets they would bring in just worked out. (Not Yabu but he helped us get Alverado deal done)

We have 9 guys under contract for next year.

I have 4 guys up in the air:
* Sochan
* Diawara
* Clarkson
* Dillon Jones (2-way)

4 guys staying:
* Shamet
* Mitch
* Huk
* McCullar (2-way)

Gone:
* Jemison (2-way)

We have 3 picks:
* 24
* 31
* 55

I really want someone to create a Did The Knicks Win the 2026 NBA Championship? site, where the only thing on it is the word “Yes.”

I will literally bookmark that site on #lolKnicksSupv’s desktop. I got keys to his office (it’s next to mine) and I got his login 😂

1

Curious to see what Shamet gets. He was great in playoffs until the Finals. I’m sure he earned himself some money but maybe not as much as he did 2 weeks ago

I’m indifferent on Clarkson. He was up and down all year but couldn’t hold onto the ball in the playoffs and he’ll be another year older.

2

What struck me while watching the final 4 games in this season’s IST is how bought in the players were. While it lacked the nut crushing pressure of a late playoff round, it was obviously way more intense than some random regular season matchup in December.

Because of the Knicks involvement this season, it was the first IST I ever bothered following closely. So I don’t know if the level of intensity I witnessed has always been there or if it was an indication that the players have come to take the event more seriously. If so, it would explain the close correlation between the final fours of this year’s IST and NBA playoffs, which featured 3 of the same teams (the one IST team that failed to make it, Orlando, arguably could have made it over the Cavs with a healthy Wagner)

The IST may have been a silly marketing stunt in the beginning but it may now be evolving into something a bit more consequential.

2

Clarkson was at his best in the latter part of the season, a very good teammate, stayed ready and was very likeable. He was part of this championship run and will always be remembered and treated well in NY.

But I’m going to continue with the opinion that he’s one player I’d be willing to move on from on this team to make room for a drafted rookie or different bench scorer.

Overall he’s not an efficient scorer, we no longer need him as a “break in case of emergency PG” now that we have both Alvarado and Kolek, he tried much harder on defense which he should be applauded for, but he’s not a plus defender, he’s way too prone to mental brain farts and TOs in key situations to trust with a lot of minutes in the playoffs and the team was worse with him on the court. His one major plus as a player was his ability to create of himself. That’s something we have too little of on this team after Brunson (and should be addressed), but that positive skill/attribute also has its downsides when it comes with bad decision making.

I don’t have a strong desire to move on from a such a likeable guy and teammate, but I think they are going to make a few minor changes and I’d rather it be the 34 year old Clarkson than one of the young players with upside or a possible draft pick roll out. I’d ike to starting add more youth to this team for the long term and have more significant surprise upside besides Diawara.

Vecenie put out his top-100 this morning

He has his Tier4 developmental swings (potential starters if things break right) go from 16-25 and Tier 5 guaranteed contracts (worth an actual NBA roster spot) go from 26-35.

Based on that, we should have some solid options when we draft.

The thought process in soccer is that a team can say “we won everything that we competed for. Doesn’t matter if it’s a one game elimination tournament or a seaon long journey. We beat everyone in front of us, AND we beat them in all formats. Did this other champion do that?”

They beat SAS in a one game elimination + they beat them in best of 7 series AND they beat them in both December and in June, – meaning two different points of the sesaon. Knicks were clearly the better team all year long and in both match up formats.

How is this not to be distinction to be used when comparing the level of domination between different era champions?

I’m in the keep Socham camp. He can’t shoot from outside, but I think at 22 he’s shown enough as a rebounder/playmaker and defensively to keep around and see if he can move forward enough to be playable in lineups with other shooters/scorers. I’m not going to be very upset if they choose to move on to make room for someone they like better, but he has my vote to keep him.

The 15 year old in me is smiling. Going to tell my therapist today that this Knicks championship is shining light on him. Giving him a reason to be beyond joyful back during a very cold time in his life.

This is our lives right now. Our boys are World motherfuckin’ Champions. It’s… its so beautiful. Can’t wait to fly home (home home) tmrw night with my son and see it with my own eyes for a few days.

2

I’m fine moving on from Clarkson, too, though I wouldn’t complain if he came back on another minimum. But the point Katz has made about him can’t be overstated. It’s not just that Clarkson became so much more helpful on the court when he changed his game by 180 degrees. It’s that the other guys on the team saw Clarkson do that, and do it without complaint. Everybody on the team likes and respects him. To see him sacrifice like that, and then to see how well that sacrifice paid off for the team, surely had to be in their minds when they realized they had to start playing differently after Atlanta Game 3.

3

Swifty, I remember well that terrible time in your family’s life. So glad you got to experience this joy. Hope everyone in your household is doing well now.

2

Sure, I wouldn’t prioritize keeping Clarkson at the expense of a reasonably intriguing draft pick and/or signing. Kind of a non-sequitur to argue against doing so, IMO. But he turned out to be a great minimum signing after a lot of consternation, though admittedly not even the best minimum signing on his own team.

I have 4 guys up in the air:
* Sochan
* Diawara
* Clarkson
* Dillon Jones (2-way)

I was going to say we should try to dump Dadiet to make room for a pick, but he quietly showed a ton of progress in the G-League this year. I guess that’s the kind of thing you don’t track super closely when your team is very good. Still getting used to that.

He hasn’t had a legal drink in America yet, so it’s probably worth keeping him around and seeing what happens. But it does make the draft pick situation pretty tight as far as the roster goes, so since the New York Knicks won the whole god damn thing, I hereby declare I will not complain that much if we make draft night trades that seem suboptimal at first glance.

I’m in the keep Socham camp. He can’t shoot from outside, but I think at 22 he’s shown enough as a rebounder/playmaker and defensively to keep around and see if he can move forward enough to be playable in lineups with other shooters/scorers.

With Sochan, it’s interesting because we could choose to cut him loose or he could choose to leave voluntarily for a better deal/more minutes.

Isn’t Deuce also up for an extension?

He’s up for an extension, but he’s 100% on the team next season unless we trade him.

While being an NBA POBO/GM, i.e. the final say over all personnel matters short of the owner’s veto power, is not rocket science, but it’s a very tough job. All of them make mistakes, and all of them require a bit of luck to be successful.

Leon was a novice in the job but had many of the rudiments just by being highly successful on the other side of the negotiating table. Still, predictably, there were growing pains.

His very first big decision (hiring Thibs) ended any chance of tanking. That decision was widely panned here, perhaps rightfully so given the perils of skipping over perhaps the most reliable path to attaining a “tentpole” player at a bargain price. It led many here to dismiss him as just the next incompetent stooge in the Dolan pipeline of guaranteed misery. His second big decision, drafting Obi Toppin with his first (and only) top-10 pick was also far from ideal, as most KB posters knew at the time.

It led many to believe that we were on a glide path towards the treadmill of mediocrity, in large part because Thibs would coach in a way that masked the underlying flaws of the approach until the team hit its hard ceiling in the playoffs. The nadir was in 2022 after Leon foolishly believed that mostly running back the 2021 team was a good idea. There was a massive here at KB outcry over draft-day decisions in consecutive years. We entered the age of “incineration,” “mezzanine,” and “purgatory.”

But then, the most Leon of moves, dripping with nepotism reminiscent of the Chris Smith accommodation, Leon hired presumed dirtbag Rick Brunson as a precursor to outmaneuvering Mark Cuban out of a young, ascending, potentially very good but physically limited scoring PG. In doing so, Leon made more curious draft day moves. Who knew at the time that acquiring this kid would be the single greatest personnel move in the franchise’s 80-year history? I doubt that Leon did, or even Jalen himself. But that’s what happened. A single move was so magnificently impactful that it made all of the questionable ones and the downright bad ones seem like minor quibbles in retrospect.

There would be more debatable moves…the prices paid for OG, Bridges (!!!), KAT, drafting Pacome…and some bad luck….iHart being so good that he priced himself out of an extension, Julius blowing out his shoulder just when the team looked like a juggernaut, OG blowing out his hammy in the midst of a critical playoff series, Mitch’s ankle issues…and the growing discontent with Thibs’ unique brand of stubbornness…and a feeling that even if we got through a watered down EC, OKC would be there to there to block our path to the championship podium.

When Leon (or Dolan if you must) fired Thibs, he took a lot of heat for doing so “without a plan.” The Knicks asked permission to speak to a bunch of coaches under contract, most notably Jason Kidd. Once Leon was rebuffed, he interviewed a bunch of retreads and settled on Mike Brown. I don’t recall a single poster here that was thrilled with the hire, beyond some “well, at least it’s not Thibs” relief. But I also don’t recall anyone thinking that Brown was a “bad” choice. He had just come off being fired in Sacto after “losing the locker room” and in particular, publicly calling out one of his star players for making dumb decisions in crunch time, a guy named De’Aaron Fox.

Brown went on to have a solid, if unspectacular season, finishing behind the upstart Pistons and Mazz-driven Celts and winning a tiny bit more than Thibs did the prior year. And although the team finished the season on a high note, the playoff seeding took a funky turn on the last day of the season and we wound up playing ATL, who rested their starters in Game 82 purpose to play us. OG’s hammy.

And when we went down in excruciating fashion in games 2 and 3, the shit hit the fan here. Mikal was absolutely crucified, and by extension, Leon Rose and Mike Brown. Hopes of getting to the finals for the first time in 27 years, or winning a championship for the first time in 53 years, was dangling by the thinnest of threads, especially because Boston and Detroit and OKC was the likely gauntlet in that moment.

And then everything changed. We blasted the Hawks into oblivion. Boston choked away a 3-1 lead. The Pistons got their asses kicked by the Cavs in game 7 on their home court. We survived a close game 2 vs. PHI in an otherwise uncompetitive sweep, culminating in an country ass-kicking on their home court in front of hoards of Knicks fans to complete the sweep. We overcame a 22-pt deficit with 7+ minutes left on the way to sweeping the shit out of the preseason faves and roared into the finals on an 11-game streak. And all of the shit talked about Brown, Mikal, KAT, and Leon seemed like a distant memory. We all became believers.

But we also believed that our opponent would likely be the Thunder, who we haven’t beaten in forever. They were banged up, but surely could close out the young, brash Spurs. But they couldn’t. That Wemby performance in Game 1, especially that game-tying logo 3, loomed too large. And now the path was crystal clear. The Spurs were too young, too untested, too overtaxed to deal with the juggernaut that was now our team.

And the finals were all we could have asked for. Sweeping the first two games on the road in dramatic fashion. Losing a hard-fought game 3 with a sideshow ruining the vibe. Then going down 29 points in the 3rd of game 4, only to mount the greatest comeback in playoff history, sending the city into a frenzy.

And finally, mounting yet another gritty comeback to fill Knicksville with the unadulterated joy we have all been dying for for most of our lives, without subjecting us to three to six more days of unbearable anxiety. The greatest gift we will ever have in our lives as diehard Knicks fans….the end of decades of suffering…felt like being released into the glorious sunshine of a summer day after a long stint in prison for a crime we didn’t commit.

We are all Andy Dufresne. Or Red. Take your pick.

Thanks Leon! Thanks Jalen! When the time comes, I can die a happier man because of you two. The others as well, but especially you two.

2

Yeah love Clarkson as a human but think he’s one guy we could move on from.

I think in the near future, NBA should host a two week 16 team world championship (NBA rules) during the pre-season. With the conference semi-finalist from the US as top 8 seeded teams, then champions from Serbia, Croatia, Greece, Spain, France, Lithuania, and some sort of a small qualifying tournament from a pool of teams around the world for teh last two spots.

Can you imagine Brunson vs Wemby, or Wemby vs SGA, or Mitchel vs Cade live again in a one game elimination with both prestige and half a million for each player on the line?

The world teams will bring their A-game to get to play a meangful game vs NBA players and NBA rules.

These can count as preseason games if players and their unions object early on. Actually, can’t believe this has not been considered yet.

1

(Sorry for the long post, I have some time today before a busy week ahead and am still overflowing with emotion and need an outlet. Thanks for indulging me!)

1

Vecenie put out his top-100 this morning

He has his Tier4 developmental swings (potential starters if things break right) go from 16-25

I’d like him more if he was 6-5 rather than 6-2.5, but I like Philon. Quaintance is also intriguing. Right now, kind of meh on the other Tier 4 guys.

Maybe people will overfocus on Peat’s crap combine and he’ll fall to 24.

Swifty come dap ya man up here so I can give you the biggest digital hug ever.

JK47, you and me finna find a bar in Long Beach for some celebratory libations sometime after I get back to CA. And we finna find geo too.

The thought process in soccer is that a team can say “we won everything that we competed for. Doesn’t matter if it’s a one game elimination tournament or a seaon long journey. We beat everyone in front of us, AND we beat them in all formats. Did this other champion do that?”

There’s another aspect to it, as well:

A title means your best was better than everyone else’s best. But a double means your whole squad was better than everyone’s, too, bc it’s usually the depth guys who play the cup games.

And it was the same for us, too. The key players in that final were Jordan Clarkson, Tyler Kolek, and Mitchell Robinson. The double is a win for the whole roster.

Regardless of where you stand on the matter, I just think it makes no sense for us to be the ones diminishing it. Hang the banners and let the haters hate. Don’t do the hatin’ for them.

(From Z-Man’s post)

Choosing De’Aaron Fox over Mike Brown is why Sacramento remains “Sacramento.”

You choose Karl-Anthony Towns over Mike Brown. You do not under any circumstances choose De’Aaron Fox over Mike Brown.

EB I think you counted Alvarado among the 9 signed but he’s got a player option.

And I’m 100% in favor of bringing back Clarkson, even if it’s only because we can give him a 175% raise over the minimum.

We need to begin appreciating the enormous value of tradable salaries. They’re going to be vital to maintaining our success, especially bc we won’t be able to aggregate once we go over the second apron.

Case in point: Yabu was the worst player we had all year and he was an incredibly valuable signing. Without his salary we couldn’t have traded for Alvarado.

If you’re in the second apron three out of five years, first round picks fall to the end of the first round. The fifth year would be 2030-31, which would cover the 2031 pick owed to BKN. (*) Anyone know if the apron rules on picks apply to picks you’re owed by an aproned team?

(*) The “Fuck Them Picks” thing I assume will be only an afterglow, still celebrating, thing, which is cool. The firsts they owe are mission critical for second aproned teams, given all the SA limitations.

Trump fell asleep at the game?

glad you’re catching up, donnie. can’t wait til you get to last Wednesday.

3

Agree, Jonathan! Sated for life.

Unrelated: I just saw an AI slop post elsewhere that reminded me Donte got a ring in Milwaukee and I genuinely felt some relief for the guy. 🙂

Zach Harper with a paen to Knick fans in his Athletic newlsetter

That was proved during the later stages of the Knicks’ NBA Finals win over the San Antonio Spurs. New York fans dominated the postseason the same way their team did. Appeared in Atlanta. Overran Philadelphia. Showed up in Cleveland. I witnessed it firsthand in San Antonio. There was a solid smattering of Knicks fans in Game 1. After New York came back to win that game, downtown San Antonio was overrun with Jalen Brunson jerseys. Knicks fans were about as loud as the Spurs fans in the Frost Bank Center for Game 2. They had flooded the road game.

After OG Anunoby’s miracle putback in Game 4 to complete the biggest comeback ever in a finals game (29 points), the writing was on the wall for the Knicks coming through for the first time since “The Exorcist” was the biggest movie in the country. Their fan base infiltrated an opposing arena like I’ve never seen. I’m not sure anybody has seen something like this.

Before Game 5 in San Antonio, I was standing near one of the tunnels, watching Pacome Dadiet warm up. I overheard a security guard say to some of his coworkers, “10,000-11,000 Knicks fans? The plaza is going to be nuts.” I thought there was no way this could be true, and the pregame hyperbole must have been flowing.

As I walked the concourse, I started feeling like this might be true. Knicks fans were everywhere. As I overlooked the arena from the media section, New York fans were omnipresent. Frost Bank was as loud for the Knicks when they did something as it was for the Spurs. And by the time the Knicks had completed their fourth comeback victory in five finals games, it felt like we were in a junior version of the madness at Madison Square Garden following the Game 4 win.

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You’ve got it slightly wrong, E. It’s the pick 7 years out after you’ve been over the apron 3 out of 5 years.

So if we go over the apron the next three seasons, the maximum penalty is our 2036 pick moves to the end of the first round, we don’t get to use the TPMLE*, and we can’t use cash in trades.

The basketball penalties of being over the 2nd apron really aren’t that harsh. It’s the tax.

* hence the importance of signing Clarkson, even if it’s just to trade him.

You’ve got it slightly wrong, E. It’s the pick 7 years out after you’ve been over the apron 3 out of 5 years.

Not according to today’s Post and this article:

https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nba/second-apron-nba-cba-explained/716143/

The seven year thing is that you can’t trade first rounders more than seven years out if you’re aproned. First rounders sinking in year 5 of a 3 out of 5 years in the SA is a separate sanction.

Same article has them $13 million under the SA if they use 24 and Alvy opts in, with Shamet, Mitch, Clarkson, and Diawara still to deal with. Gonna be very tight. I’m going on record now as disfavoring any … cough, cough … chicanery …with 24 as a first-order way of dealing with the issue.

Lots of fun clips of the starters being interviewed on Good Morning America. Here’s OG talking about what was going through his mind on the tip-in:

Now, this is making me think: would a dunk there be even cooler than the tip in? I tend to think not. That milisecond when the ball hands in the air before going in is what makes that the most HOLY SHIT moment I’ve ever seen in sports.

Can we have some parade discussion? Who is going?

My son is off school so I took the day off. I will take him. But I’m a little worried that it might be total pandemonium. Broadway is pretty narrow over there – I guess I’d try to head to City Hall, but there will be SO MANY PEOPLE.

Ideas?

“and in particular, publicly calling out one of his star players for making dumb decisions in crunch time, a guy named De’Aaron Fox.”

That’s a hell of a two-year stretch of being right about pretty much everything for Mike Brown…!

The seven year thing is that you can’t trade first rounders more than seven years out if you’re aproned.

You can never trade first rounders more than seven years out, that’s the existing maximum.

The way the second apron draft penalty works is if you end the season above it:
1) your pick 7 years out is frozen (i.e. can’t be traded), and there’s no possibility a team traded it away already because doing so doesn’t become legal until the offseason in question.

2) if you remain above the 2nd apron for 2 of the following 4 seasons, you get the end-of-the-first-round death penalty. But if you’re able to avoid doing that and get under it for 3 of the following 4 seasons, it becomes unfrozen at the end of the 5 year cycle.

The long and short of it for our purposes, IMO, is going over for a single season isn’t something to worry about, but you do want to be able to chart an easy-ish, quick path out of it. For that reason I think we’ll try to sign guys like Mitch and Shamet to 1 + 1s with team options, though obviously the market will dictate how feasible that is.

Looks like I was slightly mistaken:

Second Apron Draft Pick Penalties

Frozen Pick

If a Team is over the Second Apron at the end of the Regular Season, then its 1st Round Pick in the Draft seven years in the future is Frozen can’t be traded (conditionally or unconditionally).

Sliding or Unfreezing Pick

After the Draft Pick is frozen, you review the subsequent 4 Seasons to determine if it slides to the end of the draft or unfreezes:

If the Team exceeds the Second Apron Threshold in 2 of the 4 subsequent Salary Cap Years, then the Frozen Pick slides to the end of the First Round;

If the Team exceeds the Second Apron for fewer than 2 of the 4 subsequent Salary Cap Years, the pick will Unfreeze after the last day of the Regular Season in the 3rd Year the Team did not exceed the Second Apron.

If multiple Draft Picks in the same Season slide to the end of the Draft, then they are ordered in line with the Team’s record.

A Pick Will Never Slide and be Unfrozen

A pick will either slide to the end of the Draft or unfreeze. There is no circumstance where a pick will slide to the end of the Draft but be unfrozen.

https://cbaguide.com/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Can we have some parade discussion? Who is going?

My son is off school so I took the day off. I will take him. But I’m a little worried that it might be total pandemonium. Broadway is pretty narrow over there – I guess I’d try to head to City Hall, but there will be SO MANY PEOPLE.

Ideas?

I don’t have any ideas, but I share your trepidation and haven’t decided whether to go yet. I just have a hunch that it’ll be impossible to get anywhere near the parade route.

But I’ve been dreaming of a Knicks parade for decades, so how can I not go?

At least there’s no expansion draft this year. Pistons’ fans in 1989 got *one day* of afterglow — clinched over the Lakers June 13, Rick Mahorn lost to the Timberwolves in the expansion draft June 15.

Ouch.

Re: parade. I have the same concern and if I go, it will be to City Hall to see the ceremony. If it’s too crazy, Ill divert to Great NY Noodletown on Bowery in Chinatown.

tl;dr

If the Knicks go over the 2nd apron next year, their 2033 pick is frozen.

And if they go over the 2nd apron again the following season, their 2034 pick is frozen.

Each pick remains frozen until the Knicks either stay over the apron two more times (in which case it slides) or get under it for two seasons (in which case it unfreezes). But if it does slide, it is tradable.

Still not a strong enough deterrent for me to want to lose Mitch or Landry when we have a window open. Fuck them picks.

They owe the first one that could slide to BKN, raising the somewhat academic question of whether it slides in BKN’s hands, or instead conveys as if BKN had owned it all along. I’d guess not, but the real point from our perspective would be that it de facto lessens the potential SA impact, in that a good chunk of the potential price has already been “paid” and negated. Not much, but some. (And of course this assumes that the SA language doesn’t say something like “if you’ve already conveyed one that slides you have to do the slide the following year. I doubt it, but maybe. Certainly possible.)

I went to the Yankees’ parade in ’96 and I couldn’t see shit. This will be a million times worse.

Jalen Brunson has the single strongest case to be called the Greatest Knick of All Time. His legendary 45-point performance in Game 5 against Victor Wembanyama and the San Antonio Spurs to capture the 2026 NBA Championship permanently altered the franchise’s hierarchy. The combination of a $113 million financial sacrifice, changing the perception of New York as a graveyard for star free agents, and ending a 53-year title drought forms a resume no other Knicks legend can match.

Ewing routinely signed market-value or max deals; the front office struggled to find cap space to bring him an elite co-star. Melo forced a trade to NY rather than waiting for free agency, depleting the roster of young assets and cap flexibility.

Only Knick I can say who has a comparable case was Willis Reed whose sacrifice was physical (playing through a torn thigh muscle).

The last pick they owe Brooklyn is in 2031, E. It’s not subject to freezing or sliding.

Fuck Them Picks (FTP) worked out, WingStop worked out, and various incinerations worked out. I can’t even really think about the future right now even though there’s a draft next week.

If Leon wants to talk Andrea Bargnani out of retirement, that’s fine by me. Trade this year’s first rounder for a 2071 third rounder? Fine. Buy out Cam Reddish’s contract from whatever Uzbekistan league he’s in? No problem.

I’m not gonna question anything the guy does probably ever again.

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They really should parade down the length of Manhattan, not just that stretch.

I will be working at my former UWS school (I go in 3-4 days a month to help out with administrative stuff) and would have to wrangle an efficient exit/re-entry strategy.

It is crazy timing….there are several Regents exams on tap, including the Earth Science exam which all of our eighth graders take. The principal is very worried about absenteeism, especially since the test is not “required” for middle schoolers, it’s just a way to get HS science credit in advance, kind of like an AP exam for college credit.

The only parade I have attended was the 1986 Mets, and I was literally working on the parade route at that time. That was a zoo, and this will definitely top that!

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(Never mind, it’s the 2033 pick that freezes, as others have said. Weird structure, but whatever.)

The last pick they owe Brooklyn is in 2031, E. It’s not subject to freezing or sliding.

Yep.

I guess that means part of the “price” of SAdom hasn’t actually been “paid” yet, which makes SAdom relatively more expensive.

I’m not a FTP guy from the get-go, but I’m definitely not a FTP guy if it’s also going to involve 2033.

Ewing routinely signed market-value or max deals; the front office struggled to find cap space to bring him an elite co-star.

That’s some bullshit, Ras.

Patrick didn’t handicap the Knicks’ front office.

The entire concept of taking less to help your team was unheard of during his time.

Buy out Cam Reddish’s contract from whatever Uzbekistan league he’s in? No problem.

Cam’s too old now. That would be a bad move.

So these are the players we want back
(* for those who might leave):

Jalen Brunson – Point Guard
Josh Hart – Guard / Forward
Mikal Bridges – Forward / Guard
OG Anunoby – Power Forward
Karl-Anthony Towns – Center / Forward
*Jordan Clarkson – Shooting Guard
Miles McBride – Guard
Pacome Dadiet – Guard
Jose Alvarado – Point Guard
Tyler Kolek – Point Guard
*Jeremy Sochan – Power Forward
Mitchell Robinson – Center
*Landry Shamet – Guard
*Mohamed Diawara – Forward
Ariel Hukporti – Center

McCullar Jr., Jemison and Dillon are probably gone or else will be in the Gleague. Huk has probably earned the right to be on the roster next year, but maybe they’ll replace him with a vet? They could also replace Kolek with a legit vet PG.

Then we have 3 draft picks. With up to all 15 players coming back, I can’t imagine we make all three of these picks. Heads up to you draft lovers: Leon might kick the can down the road with our #24 to save money and just roll with our #31 2nd rounder.

That said, Sochan isn’t guaranteed to come back. Clarkson and Shamet are more likely, and Mo D is probable but who knows for sure.

The reality is, we probably don’t need Shamet, Clarkson, Deuce, and Dadiet. Clarkson is the most likely to go unless Leon plans to package Deuce and a pick for a good vet. Idk who that would be, probably a 4/5 who can shoot.

What’s the dream scenario here? You probably bring back all of this year’s contributors, so maybe only youngsters get moved?

Another business/apron consideration:

KAT is eligible for a four-year/$272 million extension this summer. That’s gonna happen, which means his $63-ish cap hit is going to continue well into 3 out of 5 year territory.

(I won’t go all Brad Stevens heartless and bloodless, and express concern that his late season push to greatness was materially driven by the desire to solidify his contract extension — particularly because I don’t think it was.)

KAT has two years left on his deal, E. His contract is perfectly positioned to allow us to exceed the 2nd apron for two years before getting out of it in year 3.

My guess is they’ll max out Mitch and Landry to line up.

If Mitch’s market is 3 years, $48M, give him 2 years, $40M.

If Alvarado’s market is 3 years, $30M, give him 2 years, $20M.

With Landry we can’t go over the league average, so we might have to pay him over 3-4 years if his market is strong.

He’s eligible for an extension this summer. The four years would start after next year; he only has a player option for 2027-28.

I’d be shocked if he wasn’t extended this summer. He’d be under contract at top dollar through 2030-31.

If Alvarado’s market is 3 years, $30M, give him 2 years, $20M.

I mathed wrong but you get the point

I’d be shocked if he wasn’t extended this summer.

I’d be shocked if he was.

After the Embiid extension, I don’t think any 30+ player is ever getting extended with two years left on their deal again unless they’re taking a massive discount.

“Choosing De’Aaron Fox over Mike Brown is why Sacramento remains “Sacramento.”

You choose Karl-Anthony Towns over Mike Brown. You do not under any circumstances choose De’Aaron Fox over Mike Brown.”

I gave short shrift to Brown in my long post.

Brown mishandled the Fox thing. Even though he was right on the merits, and he was also acutely aware that Fox was purposely undermining him, along with some others, he basically fired himself. (Funny how Fox was shipped out shortly thereafter.)

But Mike Brown is big with the mouth. He talks too much. It seemed to me a glaring flaw.

And this is where the hiring made sense. Even though he talks too much, he is collaborative and a learner, not a stubborn curmudgeon loner like Thibs.

Even so, to me, early on he started showing signs of talking too much again, sort of passive-aggressively calling things out in postgame pressers in a way that could be traced back to individual players. But he got better at that over the course of the year.

How much of that improvement (if it is true in the first place, maybe I read too much into things) was due to Leon’s influence, considering how tight-lipped he has been in his role? I truly wonder if the guy who never gives press conferences was not happy with aspects of Brown’s loquaciousness and had conversations with him about it.

One thing we know for sure. Brown was very unhappy with Mitch’s self-inflicted wound, and he started sharing details with the media, only to be basically told to STFU by a Knicks media staffer. To this day, we don’t know how Mitch busted his knuckle. And because of that intervention, no one really gives a shit any more.

But beyond that, Mike Brown has been awesome, including his detailed pressers. He is at heart a positive and collaborative soul, and his ego is not detrimentally outsized like Thibs and a bunch of other good coaches. He let a me-first guy like Fox get the better of him but learned from it. He accepted criticism gracefully and worked the relationship with players and fans, especially with Josh and KAT, and to a degree with Brunson, Mikal, Clarkson, Jose, and Mitch. That 15-1 playoff run was a masterpiece of collaborative coaching. Leon’s behind the scenes people skills, along with his building a high-character “there is no I in TEAM” roster, and Dolan’s willingness to let Leon spend whatever he had to to bring in top-notch support staff across the board, brought out the best in Mike Brown, which is as good as any coach that was out there at the time.

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I’d be shocked if he was.

Fair, we’ll see. He’ll be pissed off if he isn’t. And then the countdown will start.

Unless the thought is to wave bye-bye after two more years (*), it would actually be better to do it this summer. If it’s done after 2028, he’s on the books at a big number an extra year — 2032. (Unless, in turn, you think you can get him for less than a max after 2028 — doubtful, and things would be bad if he’s playing at a sub-max level at that relatively early point anyway, meaning there were bigger problems afoot.)

If the thought is that it might be wise to make KAT prove himself all over again and just ride with his current contract if he doesn’t make good … then I’d call that the official beginning of the KB offseason.

(*) Assuming he exercises the PO at 61 for 2027-28.

One bit of unheralded masterwork from Leon is figuring out how to get Yabu to opt out of a guaranteed $5+M to facilitate that trade. I know we’ve commended him for that, but still…Jose’s contributions in the playoffs have been massive.

KAT is going to have a PR problem if he pouts over not being offered a max extension, given that Brunson is widely (if not exactly accurately) perceived to have taken a massive pay cut to help construct this team.

If I were Leon, I’d call his bluff. Offer him something like a 3year/$50M AAV extension. If he turns it down, let him test free agency in two years. If he pouts, his trade value should be pretty high. KAT has been going on and on about being grateful. If he turns around and says “show me the money”, show him the door.

Thing is, the entire Knicks rotation are now lifelong heroes in this greatest of cities, this Mecca of NBA basketball. Money will never be a problem for any of the starters. Ask Clyde, or Dollar Bill, or Earl the Pearl, how much the money matters to them now. KAT would be wise to take a reasonable cut and not fuck this up.

He’ll be pissed off if he isn’t. And then the countdown will start.

I’m going to give KAT more credit than that. I think he’s earned it.

Man it feels good to give takes on the rest of the NBA when your team has just won the championship! Here’s a few of mine:

1. I really like the Bulls’ hire of Splitter. I don’t think folks gave him enough credit in Portland with those weird circumstances, and without their future HOF’er no less.
2. If they can get over their rivalry, I’d love to see the Spurs and Rockets do a swap involving FVV and Fox with a pick going the Spurs way. Maybe adding in Capela and another salary to match. The Spurs are the one team that can afford to acquire FVV and not rush him back, and still be great.
3. The Wizards are making a HUGE mistake keeping Keefe as HC. He will be good enough with that roster to get into the playoffs, but they’ll be a one and done team.

And lastly, onto a Knicks take. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear something about offseason procedures for Hart, Brunson, KAT, and OG. If for nothing more than making sure everything is good to go for next season. Maybe even Deuce and Shamet too. Regardless, I hope the team gets good decompression time in this offseason. They need the rest.

I’d love to see the Spurs and Rockets do a swap involving FVV and Fox

If any team takes that Fox contract off the Spurs’ hands I will hate them as much as the Celtics.

1

Agree it might happen, but don’t see the team stoking up a PR problem for KAT if he isn’t offered the extension as something particularly conducive to hanging a 2026-27 banner.

To tie up the details, he’s eligible to be offered the extension on July 6.

If any team takes that Fox contract off the Spurs’ hands I will hate them as much as the Celtics.

49/53/57/61 for the ages 29-32 seasons of that bricklaying chucklehead.

Yikes.

1

I think we can say with certainty that the second best/most important/most irreplaceable player on this team is OG Anunoby. Brunson and OG are the only 2 players I would be devastated to lose for the next 5 years, no matter what the price of keeping them.

I sure hope we can keep all of KAT, Mikal, Hart, Mitch, Deuce, Jose, and Mo. But there’s a price point where it becomes very understandable to lose any one of them.

I have a slight bit of allegiance to Huk, and none to Clarkson, Kolek, Dadiet, or McCullar.

But overall, I give Leon 100% carte blanche. He engineered a championship and gets unlimited grace. I’m just not a “what have you done for me lately” kind of guy.

That’s some bullshit, Ras.

Patrick didn’t handicap the Knicks’ front office.

The entire concept of taking less to help your team was unheard of during his time.

Its still pretty unheard of today. You can talk about Lebron or KD, but they took the option of playing with superteams that were guaranteed to cement their HOF legacies as MVP level players who never won a championship. Brunson didn’t have that guarantee.

But just to go back to the Ewing question–does anyone think Pat, Clyde, Willis Reed, Melo, etc. would ever give up 100+ million dollars to come and join a team that had Julius Randle as its 1A?

can’t believe the draft is just a week away.

you have to think unless there’s a player they love and can play immediately, that they’ll do something like draft/stash or trade the picks given where we are with the roster crunch and 2nd apron looming.

this guy Sergio de larrea looks pretty interesting… and could be stashed in Europe for a year or two.

Anyway – can’t ever stop moving in this league. Lots of decisions to be made in the next couple weeks.

“Agree it might happen, but don’t see the team stoking up a PR problem for KAT if he isn’t offered the extension as something particularly conducive to hanging a 2026-27 banner.

To tie up the details, he’s eligible to be offered the extension on July 6.”

I mean, if Leon caves, whatever…like I said, lifelong grace from me. But objectively, I think I would draw a red line at 30% of the cap, maybe even a tad less. Anything more than that is not going to age well; at that number he can always be salary filler or dumped with a first if necessary.

“Its still pretty unheard of today.”

My recollection is that Dirk and Duncan both took less to extend their championship window.

I’m all for the lionization of Brunson but there’s no need to put Patrick down. And Ras’ facts are all wrong anyway.

Patrick signed one ten year contract before he ever played for the Knicks. It covered the 1985-1995 seasons. He was making around the same percentage of the cap when we were fighting the Bulls those years as Brunson is making now.

He also structured his extension to receive a ballon payment that helped the Knicks have the cap space to improve the team in the summer of ’97.

My recollection is that Dirk and Duncan both took less to extend their championship window.

This puts Brunson is some rarified air.

I’m still so impressed by the job Leon and co did with this team. It wasn’t perfect but there was a process to everything.
Jalen may not be the best FA signing in history (Shaq, Lebron/Bosh etc), but he is definitely the best non-obvious free agent signing in history.
And then realizing that Jalen was way better than they even thought he would be, and then meticulously building the perfect complementary pieces around him.

The best comp might really be the Raptors team that made many non-obvious moves that led to a team greater than the sum of its parts — trading for perfect fit veterans like Gasol and Danny Green, drafting late gems (Siakam, Anunoby, Van Vleet), making the gamble by trading for damaged-good Kawhi, then jettisoning the high floor – low ceiling Dwayne Casey for Nick Nurse.

I will still maintain that this Knicks team’s run was better though… Raptors may have won anyway but the Warriors lost Durant and Klay to injuries in that series whereas the Knicks pretty much faced healthy competition all the way through (I don’t count Embiid).

I do wonder how many millions guys like Patrick, Barkley, Melo, etc. would give up in retrospect in exchange for the title of NBA Champion.

Obviously KAT doesn’t have to worry about that ever again, so sure, go for the max you can get!

But he would definitely lose something that money can’t buy.

Eight different champions in the last eight years in the NBA. With the new tanking rules, really no such thing anymore as “teardown,” “purgatory,” “mezzanine.” Can’t just stay pat. Can’t even imagine just staying pat and never drafting, even with a team as dominant as the Knicks were this spring. Big anti-FTP from this precinct, and yeah, I’d probably wait and see on KAT even though I definitely think it will hurt the chemistry and vibes.

wondering:

are we more like isaiah thomas’ pistons or chauncey billups’ pistons…

both excellent tough vet teams…

where does this knick team rate amongst all time championship teams?

16 – 3 is pretty impressive…

Eight different champions in the last eight years in the NBA.

I’ve accepted that we probably won’t win next year. I just want to beat Indiana in 4 games by 150 points.

But just to go back to the Ewing question–does anyone think Pat, Clyde, Willis Reed, Melo, etc. would ever give up 100+ million dollars to come and join a team that had Julius Randle as its 1A?

I have no idea if they would but Brunson didn’t do that so I’m not sure why you’re asking the question. Brunson did re-sign here for under market but that was after he signed here for an over market contact that virtually everyone called an overpay.

Btw Ras I still do that neat little trick you showed us last summer… the one where you go to the MLB standings page, click overall, and look to see where the Mets are. You still do that, too? 😉

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where does this knick team rate amongst all time championship teams?

Obviously we’re #1!

Truthfully, our numbers are pretty overwhelming but will also discount this team because it doesn’t have a true, apex Jordan/LeBron/Shaq/Curry-esque superstar leading it. So probably around the same place that the previous Knicks champs are ranked but definitely above the 80s Pistons because forever and always fuck Isiah Thomas.

1

It is hilarious in hindsight that Leon Rose didn’t get so much as a third-place vote for Executive of the Year. I get that at the time of the voting we hadn’t done the whole “run roughshod through the NBA playoffs” thing, but you would think 3 straight 50+ win seasons would count for something!

Could be that he doesn’t talk to the press. Could be that his regular season was meh. Could be that there were no real big offseason or in-season moves that really moved the needle that much. Could be that his regular season didn’t really “beat expectations.” Could be that he has a reputation within in-the-know circles of not *really* being the head personnel guy — one that wouldn’t be belied by his answers to the questions on the LO’B pedestal that in all honesty weren’t really that impressive and might even be called unimpressive and even if you didn’t call them either of those things, you’d have to admit if you were being totally honest that they really didn’t sound like a true NBA personnel guy.

Or some combination thereof.

But he’s certainly done an excellent job in overseeing the basketball department’s building and construction of an excellent, championship-caliber basketball team.

It is hilarious in hindsight that Leon Rose didn’t get so much as a third-place vote for Executive of the Year.

This award should be given out on a 3 year rolling basis or something similar.

I can see KAT taking way less than the super max. Dude has made ungodly money his entire career and the amount of room that would open up for the team as he enters his twilight years would be staggering.

Plus the rest of the east are going to be in cap/apron hell for quite some time

Another factor in always being on the move and trying to improve is that Giannis is very likely staying in the East, to either the Heat or Celtics.

I’ve accepted that we probably won’t win next year. I just want to beat Indiana in 4 games by 150 points.

Does anyone in the EC scare you? – if not, – we’re in same position we were last year at this time. Back 2 Back outcome probability is not zero. Giannis is the only material unkown for me.

Another factor in always being on the move and trying to improve is that Giannis is very likely staying in the East, to either the Heat or Celtics.

I can’t see Brad Stevens make a trade unless he’s robbing someone. He was trained by Danny Ainge.

Brown for Giannis doesn’t fit their mold bnut White, Pritchard + 4 1RP + swaps does.

Giannis + Bam + Spo could be a problem too.

Leon’s comments on the podium certainly helped me understand why he doesn’t offer many comments.

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One bit of unheralded masterwork from Leon is figuring out how to get Yabu to opt out of a guaranteed $5+M to facilitate that trade. I know we’ve commended him for that, but still…Jose’s contributions in the playoffs have been massive.

That was amazing, to be sure, but sure seems to be more about Yabu being a fucking psycho than anything (who the fuck GIVES UP a player option just so that he can get away from the team that ends up winning the title?!).

I see the Magic as a dark horse in the East. Yeah, Paolo is overrated but I really like Suggs and Wagner – who couldn’t stay healthy last season.

I’m not araid of anyone in the east next year except Detroit.

Even if Boston gets Giannis…they will ahve given up Tatum or Brown to do that and it still doesn’t solve their depth issues plus Giannis is always hurt.

Cavs can’t really make a lot of moves. Orlando could finally put it together I guess. Some of the fringe teams like Charlotte could improve. Pacers will be better but, again, they are not the same team as last year’s team.

Philly is stuck with Embiid and George.

I think the east is open for us next year and if we get to the finals again, who knows?

Plus, I don’t think our guys are gonna be complacent. They just found this new level less than 2 months ago. They’re gonna want to go for it and become one of the greatest teams of all time. Back to back in NYC would make them all Hall of Famers.

It’s a long shot obviously because luck and health plays such a big part in it, but we can do it if things break right for us.

No one in the East scares me but we’ve had a very long run. 2nd round, 2nd round, ECF, Finals. And three of those four years we played the whole season like the Finals. I wouldn’t be shocked if all that wear and tear catches up to us.

I predict this team will win a second title, but it may not be next year.

I’ve accepted that we probably won’t win next year. I just want to beat Indiana in 4 games by 150 points.

Literally about an hour after we won the championship, I said, after a round of shots, that I specifically wanted to beat the Pacers next year.

In the Leon Era we’ve exercised a hell of a lot of demons. We may well have short-circuited what people thought was a budding dynasty in Boston, we avenged the We Here team by humiliating the Hawks after giving them some hope, and of course, most importantly, the ’99 Knicks seemed to take great pleasure in us subjecting the Spurs to a humiliation ritual.

But we still need to get one over on Indy.

1

One of the biggest surprises of the post-season — right up there with OG making a difficult tip-in — is that Leon Rose’s voice was not a close imitation of Minnie Mouse’s…

Btw Ras I still do that neat little trick you showed us last summer… the one where you go to the MLB standings page, click overall, and look to see where the Mets are. You still do that, too? 😉

[In my best Darth Vader voice as I elegantly close my hand]

I find your lack of faith in the Mets …. disturbing.

Been an interesting discussion about is Brunson a Top 5 player in NBA right now? Obviously top 3 are Jokic, SGA and Wemby with Giannis and Luka next. Next is Brunson with Ant but right now I think you gotta take Brunson ahead of Giannis and maybe even Luka no?

Even if Boston gets Giannis…they will ahve given up Tatum or Brown to do that and it still doesn’t solve their depth issues plus Giannis is always hurt.

I find myself hoping this happens. Does anybody else?

I think Giannis is a trap. I never wanted him here (this year… I would have gladly taken him in his prime). And I would love to see the Celtics break up the Jays.

1

It would suck if Miami could land Giannis for Herro, Ware, and number 13. That is nothing for an MVP candidate

Assuing that like the other awards, it’s just based on the regular season (which is dumb, imho) Leon probably suffered in the rankings because of the incremental nature of his team-building and the team’s ascendance. The moves had a slow burn of success rather than a quick turnaround. In fact, the most impactful move that Leon made in terms of reversing the team’s immediate fortunes was hiring Thibs. Last year he made 2 major moves that resulted in one additional win. This year he did very little to the core roster…just tinkered with Yabu, Clarkson, Alvo and Sochan, although

Thing is, I doubt that Leon gives a shit, just as Brunson doesn’t give a shit that he is not ever seriously in the MVP conversation or Brown cares about another CoTY. Leon and Jalen receiving much more important flowers than those stupid awards. They are NYC iconic royalty for the rest of their lives. I’m watching Jay Williams on First Take dubbing us America’s Team. Perkins and JW are agreeing that this is an all-time great team (top 5 greatest teams!)

CoTY and EoTY are both non-serious awards.

I have no idea if they would but Brunson didn’t do that so I’m not sure why you’re asking the question. Brunson did re-sign here for under market but that was after he signed here for an over market contact that virtually everyone called an overpay.

I don’t think this is being fair at all. You’re undercutting the scale of what Brunson did. His 2022 contract wasn’t an overpay; it was standard market value for an ascending talent. The fact that virtually everyone was wrong about it being an overpay doesn’t diminish the enormity of what he did. Leaving $113M on the table in 2024 is entirely unprecedented for a player in his prime. Past legends don’t normally do that for team that had Julius Randle as the “1A”.

Been an interesting discussion about is Brunson a Top 5 player in NBA right now? Obviously top 3 are Jokic, SGA and Wemby with Giannis and Luka next. Next is Brunson with Ant but right now I think you gotta take Brunson ahead of Giannis and maybe even Luka no?

Kellerman’s been saying he’s top 1 for the last 2 months. He’s obviously biased, and you can’t make the case with season-long statistics. But how could you watch the NBA Finals and walk away thinking Wemby was the best player in them?

In the Leon Era we’ve exercised a hell of a lot of demons. We may well have short-circuited what people thought was a budding dynasty in Boston, we avenged the We Here team by humiliating the Hawks after giving them some hope, and of course, most importantly, the ’99 Knicks seemed to take great pleasure in us subjecting the Spurs to a humiliation ritual.

Speaking of which, how pissed off are Pacers fans right now? They must have thought this was going to be their legacy after last year’s Eastern Conference Finals. Then Halliburton gets severely injured, they lose the Finals to OKC, and lose their top pick in a tank season.

FWIW, Kellermen’s argument (I’ve heard it a few times I’ve been a fiend for content the last month) points to his 4Q and playoff numbers, and says “if you’re consistently the best player in the league in the 4Q and the playoffs, then you’re the best player in the league.”

It goes against everything we grew up on here, but it has a nice ring to it.

I mean, Jalen probably could put up dominant numbers. That’s where the small guard thing comes into play. It just doesn’t make sense to take the pounding all game and all year. So sure, put him behind all the big guys and the athletic freaks. But I’ll take Jalen Brunson over all of them when it’s time to start a playoff series.

1

If the recently concluded playoffs taught us anything, it’s that perceptions matter in the NBA. Therein lies the value of postseason awards. That Shai is widely regarded as more MVP-worthy than Brunson gets him a better whistle. Wemby likely doesn’t get away with half the shit he does on defense minus his DPOY.

But, yeah, CoTY and EoTY are meaningless trifles.

1

Respectfully, and with great love and appreciation and gratitude, I think the talk about this team being one of the greatest team of all time is over the top.

None of the teams we faced would have stood a chance against the greatest teams of all time. Let’s ignore the teams before the 3-pt era. I have zero doubt that all of the peak 80’s Celtics and Lakers, peak 90’s Bulls, peak 00’s Spurs, and peak 10’s Warriors and Heat would have blew through all 4 of those teams. There are a bunch of other teams, including teams that didn’t win championships (the peak 90’s Knicks?), who might have beaten those 4 in historic fashion.

It’s a fun discussion to have, but really, who cares? Because what is most important is that this is up there with the most improbable, the most underrated, the most glorious, the most iconic, the most riveting championship victories in NBA history, on the back of a magnificent and historic performance by one of the most unlikely, most relatable, and most magnetic superstars in NBA history. Even though the margin vs. the Spurs was 4-1, it sure felt like a very close series vs. a very flawed team. We were underdogs going in! Against a team that is green as fuck, one of the youngest finals teams ever, led by one of the youngest coaches ever, who had no playoff experience! You don’t talk about all-time teams that way.

But again, who cares?

And btw… I know my whole Mike Breen thing seemed insane… but… oh my god….

There was a play in the 4Q during our comeback where Brunson scored and Breen had the audacity to announce that “Jalen Brunson just got away with a push off on that drive.”

Thank god I wasn’t holding something in my hand when I heard it.

I forgive you, Mike. I’m not mad any more. But I ain’t sorry!

All these stats you all keep bringing up just reiterates how great the Knicks were against the best competition. Absolutely insane. This stuff happens in video games. Great stuff.

Knicks fought the refs. I still maintain they’d have swept if the zebras called it even remotely fair and didn’t burden KAT with some of those fouls.

1

I’m still reading Kevin’s thread, but wanted to come here now to say one thing that just popped on my mind…

Championships:
Wolves 0
Jimmy 0
KAT 1

😀 🧡💙

didn’t burden KAT with some of those fouls.

What is up with that?

It was annoying because all of them were actually fouls, but it was just crazy how different he was being officiated than everyone else. Not just Spurs, either. We were very physical in this series, too, particularly against Wemby. We got away with a lot.

Except KAT. He got away with nothing. And three times he had a foul against him by Wemby changed to an offensive foul. Three times! It honestly felt like he was getting picked on by bullies.

Now that he’s a champion I hope they put some respect on his name. But I fear all they did was make his reputation worse.

1

“if you’re consistently the best player in the league in the 4Q and the playoffs, then you’re the best player in the league.”

It’s an interesting perspective. I don’t agree because to me there is merit to the “strength of schedule” and “strength of team” thing.

On one hand, we can all agree that Brunson was the best player in each round of the Knicks playoff schedule. Better by a country mile than anyone on ATL. Better than Maxey, probably by a lot. Better than Spida or Harden by a lot. And yes, better than Wemby for the moment.

But better than a healthy Luka? Or a Jokic with better teammates? Or Shai, who he hasn’t beaten or even outplayed in years? Or Giannis, who scored 50 in a closeout game to break the Bucks’ long drought?

Probably a bridge too far for me, but hey, not a terrible argument!

It’s not the greatest team of all-time, Z-man’s assessment is generally accurate — but this was the most dominant playoff run of all-time. Second is probably ’83 Sixers and then one of those Warriors teams with KD, 2017 or 2018, can’t remember which.

I would have loved a Knicks vs. Fully-Healthy Thunder final. Knicks would have found a way to win it. It was their time and their year.

JB’s playoff TS% was .573 (league .562) and he’s an average defender. You really have to believe in clutch to get from that to #1.

He’s on top of the basketball world right now and gets to stay there through the summer, that’s for sure. He richly deserves every bit of that.

What is up with that?

It was annoying because all of them were actually fouls, but it was just crazy how different he was being officiated than everyone else. Not just Spurs, either. We were very physical in this series, too, particularly against Wemby. We got away with a lot.

Except KAT. He got away with nothing. And three times he had a foul against him by Wemby changed to an offensive foul. Three times! It honestly felt like he was getting picked on by bullies.

Now that he’s a champion I hope they put some respect on his name. But I fear all they did was make his reputation worse.

Yep. This is what bothered me to no end. If you’re going to allow physical play, then call it for both sides. I adamantly believe KAT became a target after they saw how easily he handled Wembayama in the first game. So frustrating.

You just sort of kept waiting for the clock to strike midnight and the carriage to turn into a pumpkin, but the Knicks just kept being the team you dared to think they could be.

Their Pythag in the playoffs was 17-2. They played at a 73 win pace against playoff teams, including the #2 SRS team in the league. They had a .600 TS%. They were the #1 offense and the #1 defense. They had the top two BPM players in the playoffs and the leading scorer who was a third player. Other than Philly their opponents were largely healthy.

Just an incredible run, most similar to the peak GSW teams with Steph.

Think of the teams we faced. I have zero doubt that all of the peak 80’s Celtics and Lakers, peak 90’s Bulls, peak 00’s Spurs, and peak 10’s Warriors and Heat would have blew through all 4 of those teams. There are a bunch of other teams, including teams that didn’t win championships (the peak 90’s Knicks?), who might have beaten those 4 in historic fashion.

Why did we face the teams we faced in the East instead of better teams? Is it our fault that the teams “better” than us couldn’t beat the teams we beat?

When we did face those teams, we absolutely smashed them. Do you think the great teams of the past never faced weaker opponents? If they’re so much better than us, why didn’t they smash them like we did ours? We’re not even in the Leastern Conference era any more, so that argument is out.

The Spurs team we gentleman’s swept was really fucking good. They won 62 games overall with 8.28 SRS. That is better SRS than:
-Any team the Jordan Bulls ever beat
-Any team the Magic Lakers ever beat
-Any team the Dynasty Warriors ever beat
-Any team the Spurs championship teams ever beat
-Any team the Bird Celtics ever beat except the ’86 Bucks, who had 8.69 SRS but only won 57 games

Yeah, they were young, but they sure didn’t look that young when they were finishing the season 30-4 or beating the defending champs.

The only reason to discount this team’s achievements is a very weak one: our unexceptional RS record — though our SRS was solidly in true contender range. Our playoff performance was all-time great any way you slice it, and it indicates that we’d have been competitive against any team in the history of the NBA.

SRS doesn’t work in a league where 30% of the teams are trying to lose and/or load managing.

We all saw the Spurs. They had significant flaws in both shooting the basketball, executing in big possessions and, as a result, stopping Knick runs. They never stanched the bleeding and better teams (heathy Thunder, for one) could have and would have.

It’s very hard to compare teams from different eras for a wide variety of reasons.

I’ll say this though: this chip doesn’t come with a “But Jalen Williams Was Hurt” asterisk. This is as legit a championship as they come.

1

Yeah, the most dominant playoff run in NBA history is fully and entirely legitimate, without any kind of asterisk or qualifier.

They had the best net rating in playoff history. Speaks for itself, very loudly.

The full-on “legacy” of this run and where this team stacks up, IMO, will require additional data points. But this was an epic performance in which they dominated their peers.

The best way for us to settle this debate is for The Knicks to repeat!

1

JB’s playoff TS% was .573 (league .562) and he’s an average defender. You really have to believe in clutch to get from that to #1

I don’t think comparing him to guys who are getting open looks is the best way to go at it.

His .536 TS% against the Spurs is probably something he should be proud of. What do you think the expected TS% of someone being guarded by Castle, shaded by Wemby, and fouled the whole time is going to be?

“…but this was the most dominant playoff run of all-time. Second is probably ’83 Sixers and then one of those Warriors teams with KD, 2017 or 2018, can’t remember which.”

Statistically there’s no disputing this. But having such a run is dependent on many things, most important of which is good ol’ fashioned strength of opponents. It doesn’t take a lot of mental gymnastics to conclude that this was one of the least competitive slates of opponents that any champion had to navigate, especially given the scheduling (e.g. all of Philly, Cleveland, and San Antonio having to play us after surviving harrowing 7-game slugfests.) But you can only play who is in front of you, and we deserve enormous credit for being as dominant as we were.

In the big picture, I will once again say, who cares? No one anywhere is diminishing what we accomplished, in fact, they are glorifying it! For now, at least. Alas, I expect that the poo-pooing will begin once the euphoria dies down, especially from fans of Pacers, Celtics, Pistons, and Spurs. Next season is gonna be all about putting us in our place. Teams are gonna bludgeon Brunson from pillar to post. My hope is that he starts getting an MVP whistle, which he richly deserves after the shit the NBA tried to pull with those Wemby flagrants. Same with KAT.

“His .536 TS% against the Spurs is probably something he should be proud of. What do you think the expected TS% of someone being guarded by Castle, shaded by Wemby, and fouled the whole time is going to be?”

I’m not about to take on any position that has any possibility of seeming to be “anti-Jalen Brunson.” It would be like nitpicking over something Clyde did in Game 3 in 1970, two days after the fact. He’s a great basketball player and now NYC legend that just had an epic, iconic playoff run. There aren’t really enough superlatives to describe what he just pulled off.

“The Spurs team we gentleman’s swept was really fucking good.”

Not really. They were really good defensively but couldn’t really shoot a lick in a league that prioritizes shooting. They were prone to both rookie mistakes and had (not clever as a) Fox as their “brain on the court.” Nothing that happened wasn’t entirely predictable, not because of the Knicks greatness but because of the Spurs’ weakness. See: Brian Cronin.

“Yeah, they were young, but they sure didn’t look that young when they were finishing the season 30-4 or beating the defending champs.”

They beat a badly hobbled OKC team that was weak at the position where SA was strongest, and it still took them 7 games. If we had beaten the Spurs missing Castle and Harper, would that feel the same?

Using SRS across eras is not very convincing. I’d go with the eye test every time over that nonsense. Especially in a year where a third of the league was actively tanking.

The ’03 Pistons lost in the ECF to the Nets and then the next year curbstomped prime Shaq-Kobe Lakers to win the LO’B. Over the next four years, they went:

Finals loss in 7
ECF loss to Wade/Shaq champion Heat
ECF loss to LeBron
ECF loss to KG/Pierce/Allen champion Celtics

So six straight trips to the ECF, a championship, and another loss in the Finals in 7.

What’s their legacy?

Knicks are where that Pistons group was after they curbstomped the Lakers.

Need more data points.

Nothing that happened wasn’t entirely predictable, not because of the Knicks greatness but because of the Spurs’ weakness. See: Brian Cronin.

What?!

It was predictable because of our greatness.

They weren’t going to fall apart against the Cavs. We got them to their breaking point by being supremely competent.

What’s their legacy?

An almost dynasty but the thing is, when you talk to NBA fans who have been around for awhile, everyone still talks very positively about that 04 Pistons team.

1

SRS doesn’t work in a league where 30% of the teams are trying to lose and/or load managing.

This really wasn’t the case until the last 15 years or so, and most of my examples were from the 80’s and 90’s.

We all saw the Spurs. They had significant flaws in both shooting the basketball, executing in big possessions and, as a result, stopping Knick runs. They never stanched the bleeding and better teams (heathy Thunder, for one) could have and would have.

Yeah, they did have those flaws, against us. Weird how even with these gaping offensive flaws they managed to be 3rd in Ortg for the entire playoffs even factoring in the terrible 106.4 they put up against us.

1

Spurs had the 4th best offense in the NBA during the regular season right behind the Knicks.

This really wasn’t the case until the last 15 years or so, and most of my examples were from the 80’s and 90’s.

Right — and that’s why you can’t use SRS’s in the last 15 years to compare teams over the last 15 years with teams from the 80s and 90s.

They beat a badly hobbled OKC team that was weak at the position where SA was strongest, and it still took them 7 games. If we had beaten the Spurs missing Castle and Harper, would that feel the same?

Weak at the position SA was strongest? Yeah, all they had was literally the second best C in the league according to All-NBA selection and likely the best backup C in the league also?

The ’03 Pistons lost in the ECF to the Nets and then the next year curbstomped prime Shaq-Kobe Lakers to win the LO’B.

Did you forget that the ’04 Lakers were not at all the prime Shaq-Kobe Lakers? They were 7th in SRS that year

Just taking a moment to observe that the universe has turned on its head. We are champions and Pagliacci is the one upholding our greatness against a bunch of negative nancies!

If you think “SRS” shows definitively that the 2026 Spurs are a better basketball team than the 2004 Lakers were, I’m afraid further discussion on this topic is impossible.

“Just taking a moment to observe that the universe has turned on its head. We are champions and Pagliacci is the one upholding our greatness against a bunch of negative nancies!”

Feel free to take notice that this shift had already been apprehended and comprehended.

I love it. Less than 48 hours after our chip and we’re back to arguing!

You have to admit it’s the best argument ever though. “Are we one of the league’s greatest ever champions, or merely great champions?”

These are high class problems. This is way better than “Is Alexy Shved a potential building block?”

3

Just watched the final minutes again, was randomly on British tv.

I am super glad Harper missed both.

And I think it was hilarious OG just threw the game ball into the stands.

Won’t be long until we’re thirsting for another championship — if for no other reason than to stave off the inevitable “Knicks were a fluke” bullshit from other fanbases and the usual suspects at outlets like The Athletic and ESPN.

You know it’s coming.

Knicks become the first repeat champion in nearly a decade and this run and team is fully ratified and cemented.

I chose to accept the standard of greatness that measures your dominance relative to the present level of competition you faced. Trying to extrapolate how the 1986 Celtics would’ve faired versus the 2026 Knicks is as futile as an episode of the Deadliest Warrior where Roman Centurions are pitted against Japanese Samurai in a virtual simulation. Its just wishcasting and conjecture.

There will be a time in the future where AI will be so advanced that you’ll be able to “watch” the 2026 Knicks play the 1986 Celtics in a broadcast that looks virtually identical to a 2026 ESPN NBA broadcast, right down to player interviews between quarters and coaches’ huddles.

The result won’t be much more dependable than a game of NBA 2K, but you’ll be able to “experience” the showdown in full effect.

Even then, what rules do we use? The ones in today’s game or in 1986 where hand-checking and traveling violations were more prevalent?

If you’re actually interested in the comparisons — and there’s no reason you should be or have to be, but if you are — there are a bunch of games from all eras available on YouTube and you can watch the teams and players play. You can watch like three 1984 Knick playoff games and be able to easily conclude, “Wow, that Bernard King guy is really explosive and jumps really high really quickly on his jump shot and makes a lot of his shots and the other team is trying a bunch of different guys on him and he can still score.”

You can also look at things like player heights. Everything else equal, it is better to be taller in basketball than shorter.

There’s no reason to rely entirely on BB-ref and certainly not just on SRS.

You guys seen the videos of Dolan’s speech to the team before the playoffs started?

“You have to admit it’s the best argument ever though. “Are we one of the league’s greatest ever champions, or merely great champions?”

These are high class problems. This is way better than “Is Alexy Shved a potential building block?”

Perfectly said.

One thing we can all agree upon is that this Knicks team is one of the three greatest Knicks team ever. Are they #1? It could certainly be argued that they are. They didn’t just blow through their opponents, winning 9 straight road games along the way, they did so with a burden of history and media pressure few teams in any sport, let alone basketball, have had to bear…with the additional burden of not having home court and being underdogs against a team that won 9 more games than them and knocked off the defending champs on their home floor.

We can have fun arguing about how they would have matched up against those other great Knicks teams, or other great teams in general, but man, it’s invigorating to argue down from the mountaintop.

You can also look at things like player heights. Everything else equal, it is better to be taller in basketball than shorter.

The irony in this statement after this Finals matchup is not lost on me. I hope it is not lost on everyone else here as well.

You guys seen the videos of Dolan’s speech to the team before the playoffs started?

monotonous and unispring.

I think we needed to sweep the Spurs to have any kind of case.

A 15 game winning streak, best point differential ever, 16-2 with two losses by a point, then I think you can talk about it.

Alas, the 24-8 FT advantage did us in, so we’re just champions.

Alas, the 24-8 FT advantage did us in, so we’re just champions.

Which is why the comparison across ages is also impossibly speculative: how does one account for the discrepancies in inconsistent refereeing in a way that takes all of that variability into account?

As great as he is, Jalen Brunson would be even better if he was 6-7 or 6-8.

The 2004 Pistons are really where I look at the moment. And that team went right back to the Finals the next year and almost got a back-to-back title. This team could obviously leap over that Pistons team by simply repeating next season.

But that was a really good Pistons team and they kicked the Lakers’ ass, and ruined Karl Malone’s attempt to piggyback on Shaq and Kobe to get a title, which was hilarious.

I believe that Pistons team was also a #3 seed like the Knicks.

I checked, and yes, they were a #3 seed, but a bullshit #3 seed team. They were going by the old rules. Thank goodness we have new rules that say that division winners don’t get higher seeds.

Catching up, cosign PJ’s opinion on Thiago Splitter. Ex-Spur and the Spurs would be better off with him than Mitch Johnson. Pop should have brought him home in his early coaching days.

Mitch is definitely on the clock. Knicks might have broken that nucleus/coach combo.

glad you’re catching up, donnie. can’t wait til you get to last Wednesday.

There’s too much to sift through. My only real question is whether you and Kat are going to be able to sustain the offseason.

1

Jalen Brunson 2025-26 playoff per game stats:
pts: 28.4 ast: 6.1 reb: 3.2 stl: 1.2 tov: 2.7

Steph Curry 2017-18 playoff per game stats (same age):
pts: 25.5 ast: 5.4 reb: 6.1 stl: 1.7 tov: 2.9

I think Jalen Brunson MFing qualifies as a top-3 player in this league after doing that, including against arguably one of the best modern nba defenses in the Finals.

4

San Antonio, by the end of the season, was probably the best team in the league. So no one should discount our finals opponent. Also..with the way we played in the playoffs, I’m confident in saying the only difference between a series with San Antonio and a series with OKC is it probably would have gone 7. Same result though, because our play on both sides of the ball were VASTLY different in the playoffs than it was in the regular season. Plus most of the rotation were super locked in with maybe the exception of Deuce. He just wasn’t himself during the run. Still tenacious on defense, but he was really out of sync offensively

Seeing these trade rumors about J Brown and the Celtics got me wondering. How would we have done against Boston this year if we played in the playoffs? I think the Knicks win in 5 or at the most 6. What do you think would have happened?

Still unable to explain How the fuck our mfkrs made these Epic sneaky Comebacks and Humiliated all their opponents who still think and possibly till the day they die that they were better than the knicks.
We talk about THE PERFECT PSYCHOLOGY HEIST I’ve ever seen in sports.
I believed in the Knicks.
Wanted to bet Heavy on them.
But i was truly scared to do it.
And They THANKFULLY made me regret it EACH FKN TIME!

#Still in Championship Nirvana#

It bears mentioning that as coaches go, none of Snyder, Nurse, Atkinson, or Johnson are anywhere close to elite. I would put Mike Brown above any of them any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Would this Spurs team have lost to this Knicks team if vintage Pop was coaching them? Or Spo? Or Carlisle? Or Kerr? A coach can only do so much, but all 4 game were won on the margins.

All I know is that Mitch Johnson loved him some De’Aaron Fox!

All I know is that Mitch Johnson loved him some De’Aaron Fox!

It showed a stunning lack of self-preservation, as he really tied himself to FOX, of all people.

One of the things that really got me about Fox was that he would do stupid shit, and then later give emphatic interviews about how what he did was the right call, and his interviews just showed how empty-headed this dude was. No wonder he made the same mistakes over and over again, he clearly didn’t think he WAS making mistakes!

But as I noted, hey, at least he was taking the shot. Vassell and others were all shying away from the ball late (Vassell was the most obvious example, but other guys looked scared, too, like Champagnie and Castle).

There is no reason to assume anything other than the Knicks would have wiped out the Celtics, especially once Tatum pulled up lame, but even without that. The Celts were frauds all year that Mazzed their way to that record.

Detroit might have presented a bit more of a challenge, but they were overhyped frauds as well.

Neither of those teams had another level to go to. OTOH, we all knew that Brown was experimenting and juggling all year, and that certain guys were underachieving.

Do they still make those championship videos? The last one I remember getting was the 2009 Yankees DVD.

1

Read here that this Knicks Run was the most unworried ever and i can easily get it since our backs were never against the wall.
But Betting your house or your life before each game that they ll win it wasn’t exactly guaranteed.
It was the Ultimate Dominant Run of a Disrespected Underdog.

Becky and Draymond thank you for the motivation but GO FUCK Yourselves also

“But as I noted, hey, at least he was taking the shot. Vassell and others were all shying away from the ball late (Vassell was the most obvious example, but other guys looked scared, too, like Champagnie and Castle).”

At the end of the day, we had Jalen Brunson and they had De’Aaron Fox. Probably one of the greatest positional mismatches in NBA Finals history.

During my walk around my neighborhood today I just kept listening to Queen’s “We Are The Champions”.

1

Roster wise it’s way too early to make decisions and definitely the Champions deserve the World BUT…
Next Season should not be about appreciation only but mainly about trying to repeat.
If this squad is fine as it is bring it back.
If those responsible for the quality of the roster feel they can improve it…
Let there Be Rock!

If anyone wants to watch James Dolan talk for 15 minutes, this is the video of the motivational speech he gave the team before the playoffs.

He taped it?

If. anyone wants to watch James Dolan talk for 15 minutes….

I moved onto the next post right there

I always thought if he wasn’t a member of the lucky sperm club, he would have been a grumpy middle school gym teacher.

Hmm… let’s rank all the games.

1. Game 4 vs San Antonio – the comeback
2. Game 5 at San Antonio – the big night
3. Game 1 vs Cleveland – purged a lot of ghosts from 2025
4. Game 6 at Atlanta – shock & awe
5. Game 3 at Philadelphia – Mitch’s dunk on Embiid
6. Game 1 at San Antonio – holy shit we’re gonna do this
7. Game 2 at San Antonio – nice pass, Wemby
8. Game 5 vs Atlanta – the night I called it
9. Game 1 vs Philadelphia – shock & awe, part 2
10. Game 2 vs Cleveland – the Josh Hart game
11. Game 4 at Atlanta – the one where we righted the ship
12. Game 4 at Philadelphia – we are not gentlemen
13. Game 3 at Cleveland – the one where we made them quit
14. Game 4 at Cleveland – I don’t even remember this game
15. Game 1 vs Atlanta – the one I didn’t see
16. Game 2 vs Philadelphia – the one where we almost lost OG

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I despise me some James Dolan but must admit that I liked his speech, given who he is, and who he isn’t. It doesn’t matter to me whether it had any impact on anyone in getting to this point. It showed that he deeply cared on a very personal, visceral level.

Dolan has a lot of company…there are lots of despicable owners whose teams won championships. Whatever.

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I’m not going to watch that but I will say “Hey, New York, I’m sorry it took so long” was about the best thing he could have said when he was on the dais.

He did hire Leon Rose and fire Tom Thibodeau. Gotta give him credit for that. If he’s willing to pay the luxury tax, the team wins another title, and he invites Charles Oakley back to the Garden, his second act may be as good as Steinbrenner’s.

Every Knick who sat through James Dolan, who has never sacrificed anything at all nor had to work hard to attain anything, exhorting them about the need to do both of those things for 10 weeks deserves a Nobel Peace Prize.

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Aten…thx for asking…she’s way better…didnt even have to give her the antibiotics….also she found out the knicks won so that probably helped ….

At the end of the day, we had Jalen Brunson and they had De’Aaron Fox. Probably one of the greatest positional mismatches in NBA Finals history.

It’s in the conversation but it’s kind of hard to top any of the 3 centers that Shaq played against during the Lakers 3peat: 33 year old Rik Smits, Todd McCollough, and Jason Collins. Also, does anyone remember that we apparently started Chris Dudley in 2 games of the 99 Finals? I don’t remember that and I have no idea why JVG would do that but BBRef doesn’t lie.

does anyone remember that we apparently started Chris Dudley in 2 games of the 99 Finals?

All too well.

And then they fouled him out of the 3 games he started like he was KAT.

Interesting subplot of the next year that may interest only me:

We’re two summers away from the olympics in LA and Tyrese Halliburton is currently entrenched as the starting PG for Team USA over the guy who has won everything at every level.

That should be Jalen’s Olympics.

Not to nitpick on our savior but watching those highlight videos I’m thinking Jalen used to dish out some pretty sick assists that we don’t see as much of these days, no?

For those unaware the Tonight Show this evening will be completely dedicated to the Knicks.

The one time I’m willing to tolerate that insufferable goofball Jimmy Fallon.

I thought Shaq faced off against Mutumbo when Philly played the lakers?

I thought Shaq faced off against Mutumbo when Philly played the lakers?

Shit, you’re right, I totally forgot about Philly. Jason Collins and the Nets played Duncan’s Spurs, not the Lakers.

Also did anyone watch the good morning america segment with the starting five?

One moment that stood out for me. One of the hosts asked them about what coach Brown has meant to the team. There was a long pause and all five of them kind of had this little smirk like they didn’t want to say anything and then Brunson, Hart and OG all kind of looked at Mikal and were like “do you want to say anything” before I think Hart answered the question with just sort of the regular praise we’ve heard these guys say about him. But I thought it was a very telling moment and definitely felt like they were all trying not to say anything too extreme bc they didn’t want to throw Thibs under the bus.

I honestly think they all liked and respected Thibs but he just was way too much of a control freak for this group of veterans. I think he did help instill the never give up attitude that helped this team but it’s clear now that they needed a coach who could take off the shackles a bit and let them make decisions for themselves.

I liked Brown cause of his Sacramento playoff bball i watched and couldn’t believe BuT wasn’t expected this kind of Wizardry that he executed here!
Can’t wait for the new season to watch his new tricks!

Good lord I’ve never seen Bill Simmons gush over the Knicks like he does on his latest podcast. Takes include Jalen Brunson in the top 40 players of all time, and ranks Brunson 4th, KAT 11th, OG 17th in his latest player rankings.

Also talks about Giannis to Boston as a fait accompli fwiw.

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By the way, there’s something weird about this website recently. If I’m using VPN, it doesn’t load. I don’t know why. Fortunately it’s not blocked by the great firewall, but since I’m often using VPN this is a pain. It also means I have to switch VPN on and off to checkout various links, such as Twitter ones. Do you know what changed?

Just saw that Fred Katz has been writing a book about this era of Knicks basketball.

Odds that he mentions Knickerblogger?

Spurs led for 72% of the finals, and lost 4-1.

Wemby has lost every finals he’s ever played in (euro, international, NBA Cup, and this).

Jalen has WON every finals he’s ever played in (HS, 2 FIBAs, 2 Novas, the Cup, and now this).

I am REALLY loving all the growing Spurs are Bitches content coming on line…

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2)To answer someone else’s question, what are your favorite movie or (especially) TV references to our favorite team?

Alan, please reference “Soul” and the quote “the Knicks lose another one”, i feel vindicated! 😉

Saw a clip from GMA where OG seemed completely baked and out of it – the other players just laughed

Little things I didn’t notice until I rewatched the game for the 10th time…

The whole 10-0 run in the 4Q was Brunson. It’s 83-73 Spurs, and he scores 10 straight points. Then Vassell hits a bucket, and he hits 3 free throws to make it 86-85. 13 straight Knicks points in the 4Q of a closeout game on the road for the title. Remarkable.

If there’s a play of the game I’d call it this:

The Knicks had cut it to 6 and Wemby said “enough”. He called for this switch so he could put an end to this run. The DPOY put on his big boy pants and said I’m going to shut this down. And Brunson abused him.

David toppling Goliath encapsulated in one beautiful play:

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=627&GameID=0042500405&Season=2025-26&flag=1&title=Brunson%201%27%20Driving%20Finger%20Roll%20Layup%20(36%20PTS)

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