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Knicks Morning News (2024.06.12)


  • Tyus Jones? Royce O’Neale? Ten players Knicks could sign with midlevel exception – The Athletic – The New York Times
    [The New York Times] – Tue, 11 Jun 2024 13:49:34 GMT

    Tyus Jones? Royce O’Neale? Ten players Knicks could sign with midlevel exception – The Athletic


  • Ex-Knicks’ Kristaps Porzingis Gives Bone-Chilling Finals Speech – Sports Illustrated
    [Sports Illustrated] – Tue, 11 Jun 2024 12:09:37 GMT
    1. Ex-Knicks’ Kristaps Porzingis Gives Bone-Chilling Finals Speech
    2. Kristaps Porzingis has ‘rare’ leg injury; questionable for Game 3
    3. Celtics center Kristaps Porziis suffers rare injury and is questionable for Game 3 of NBA Finals
    4. What is a dislocation of the posterior tibialis tendon and can Porzingis play?
    5. Just how serious is star Boston Celtics big man Kristaps Porzingis’ new injury?


  • New York Notes; Schroder, Hurley, Knicks’ Targets, Lowry, Morris, Irving – hoopsrumors.com
    [hoopsrumors.com] – Wed, 12 Jun 2024 02:33:00 GMT

    New York Notes; Schroder, Hurley, Knicks’ Targets, Lowry, Morris, Irving


  • NBA Rumors: 76ers could steal OG Anunoby after potential Knicks red flag – The Sixer Sense
    [The Sixer Sense] – Tue, 11 Jun 2024 14:13:17 GMT

    NBA Rumors: 76ers could steal OG Anunoby after potential Knicks red flag


  • The Ultimate Hollywood ending for Dan Hurley is not coaching the Lakers. Its coaching the Knicks. – NJ.com
    [NJ.com] – Tue, 11 Jun 2024 11:05:00 GMT

    The Ultimate Hollywood ending for Dan Hurley is not coaching the Lakers. Its coaching the Knicks.


  • Reggie Miller Slams New York Knicks – Again – Sports Illustrated
    [Sports Illustrated] – Tue, 11 Jun 2024 15:05:37 GMT

    Reggie Miller Slams New York Knicks – Again


  • Pros and Cons: Should Knicks select Tyler Kolek in 2024 NBA Draft? – sny.tv
    [sny.tv] – Tue, 11 Jun 2024 13:42:15 GMT

    Pros and Cons: Should Knicks select Tyler Kolek in 2024 NBA Draft?


  • Knicks Rumors: Kyle Lowry Contract Was on NY’s ‘List’ Before PG Joined 76ers – Bleacher Report
    [Bleacher Report] – Tue, 11 Jun 2024 19:30:42 GMT

    Knicks Rumors: Kyle Lowry Contract Was on NY’s ‘List’ Before PG Joined 76ers


  • New York Knicks Coach Out of Cavs Job – Sports Illustrated
    [Sports Illustrated] – Tue, 11 Jun 2024 16:39:28 GMT

    New York Knicks Coach Out of Cavs Job


  • Knicks Legend’s Son About to Enter Spotlight – Sports Illustrated
    [Sports Illustrated] – Tue, 11 Jun 2024 11:00:03 GMT

    Knicks Legend’s Son About to Enter Spotlight


  • Famous rapper makes bold NBA Finals claim about Knicks and Julius Randle – Daily Knicks
    [Daily Knicks] – Tue, 11 Jun 2024 21:00:02 GMT

    Famous rapper makes bold NBA Finals claim about Knicks and Julius Randle


  • Knicks: Julius Randle mock trade scenarios that make New York a championship contender – Empire Sports Media
    [Empire Sports Media] – Tue, 11 Jun 2024 15:18:41 GMT

    Knicks: Julius Randle mock trade scenarios that make New York a championship contender


  • Today’s Iconic Moment in New York Sports: Knicks reach the NBA Finals – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Tue, 11 Jun 2024 16:00:00 GMT

    Today’s Iconic Moment in New York Sports: Knicks reach the NBA Finals

  • 133 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.06.12)”

    Well, this is boring. But somehow it’s still better than reading about bodily functions.

    Seriously though how did the NBA put this schedule together? After skipping the first two games, I finally got excited to watch last night. Except there was no game! It was another extra rest day. So 9 days without a game, and then just 2 games in the next 6. 🤦🏻‍♂️

    Regardless, now that the possibility of Boston choking has entered the chat, I’m a little excited to tune in. And game 4 is on Friday, too, so there won’t be two days to suck the excitement out of the series.

    can’t believe I missed out on the airport gas stuff yesterday…

    good reminder as to why I don’t like being around other humans too much…

    Caitlin way out there in Iowa always made me think of Elvis…

    I’m expecting at best a gentleman’s sweep here. As much as I hate the Celts’ laundry, they are playing a very aesthetically pleasing brand of basketball right now, while Dallas is largely playing like the Knicks do with Brunson and Randle, lots of unimaginative ball-dominant stuff.

    But I have largely moved on intellectually to the offseason and what it will mean to the Knicks, and less so, to other teams going forward. Obviously that starts with the draft, but there is no clarity about what the Knicks FO will do…other than they will almost certainly not make all 3 picks. It is reasonably feasible that they will either kick all the first round picks down the road, or package them to move up, or trade down with one of the first rounders and make the other, or trade all three picks with Bojan for a player, or whatever. And even if we make the picks, it is quite likely that whoever we pick gets moved before playing a second for the team.

    It is impossible to know what is going on behind the scenes with OG and iHart. I think it is 90+% that OG is back, and if I had to bet, I would bet on iHart staying put at the max we can pay him. But the urgency of the draft is tied up in these outcomes.

    At the end of the day, this is going to be a very eventful 3 weeks!

    You’re working pretty hard to avoid seeing Jalen Williams drafted at 12.

    Maybe so, but the original statement I was arguing with was that Hartenstein cost us franchise changing talent. But once all the trades in the last thread are included you have to add signing Brunson and resigning Mitch as results of all the trades since much more cap space was freed and used than just what was used to sign Hartenstein

    My personal thoughts. All of this OKC talk is just iHart’s agent putting pressure on the Knicks to pay up. We’re going to resign him for the max we can. We’re also going to resign OG and he’ll get paid but there will be some stipulations in the contract to account for injuries, games missed etc.

    Brunson will resign as well. Randle I’m guessing we’ll wait on but will ultimately extend for a few extra years as well.

    “Caitlin way out there in Iowa always made me think of Elvis…”

    Why on Earth would Caitlin being in Iowa make you think of Elvis, when he is from Tupelo, Mississippi? And isn’t she in Indiana, not Iowa, these days?

    Katz mentioned Kyle Anderson, Tyus Jones, Monte Morris, and Kyle Lowry (and possibly some other names) as options for whatever exemption we end up with. Seems like the best way to get a cromulent backup PG since a rookie won’t be ready to contribute at that position, but I like the idea of Slo-mo as well.

    What a scoop, Max. His Wikipedia page doesn’t even note that he passed yet. Nor does Basketball Reference, etc.

    Just got an ESPN alert 60 seconds ago.

    My personal thoughts. All of this OKC talk is just iHart’s agent putting pressure on the Knicks to pay up.

    You may be right, Swifty, but given the Knicks’ hard cap, the ploy would make more sense if he is trying to get a 3rd team involved.

    We’re also going to resign OG and he’ll get paid but there will be some stipulations in the contract to account for injuries, games missed etc.

    I would be suprised if the stipulations happened because I think they outlined an agreement at the time of the trade and I doubt if they would have insisted on injury protection then. Throwing that in now would jeopardise a lot. Also, I believe for calculating salary for apron levels, all incentive pay, however unlikely, is included, making it less of an issue for flexibility than it would otherwise be

    I kind of doubt we’ll have access to the MLE because I remain iHart-optimistic and think waiving Bogey would be short-sighted unless we pre-identify an outstanding MLE target (one or both of losing iHart and waiving Bogey would get us access to the full MLE if everything else goes more or less chalk). Put another way, if we have the full MLE something has gone at least a bit wrong.

    OAKAAK Dennis Smith Jr. is an interesting target with the taxpayer MLE IMO. He still can’t shoot worth a damn so the fit isn’t perfect, but no taxpayer MLE player is going to achieve all of our hopes and dreams. He’s turned himself into an absolute menace defensively, and can still use his penetration threat to make plays.

    For our next iteration I’d like to sign only high BB-IQ players, so I’d be okay with Lowry (I think he’s going to stay in Philly), Tyus Jones, Slo-Mo.

    DSJ made me mad during his Knicks tenure, I’ve had enough of him, and for the same reasons (low BB-IQ) I’d rather wont re-sign Achiuwa either…

    And let’s not forget the much needed inbound-plays coach! 😀

    * high BB-IQ players who can shoot would be even better 😉

    ** P.S. And big men who can hit free throws, thanks

    Stopped by for some Jerry West appreciation. RIP. Best combined player/exec ever (?)

    Thinking the same thing, KBA. There have been better players, and possibly better execs, but those who have excelled in both? West leads the list.

    the original statement I was arguing with was that Hartenstein cost us franchise changing talent

    I understand the confusion but that was not the original statement.

    The statement is that the intelligent bet on Hartenstein (which was enabled by all those draft day dealings) is one of Leon’s best moves. It was so good that it managed to mitigate some of the damage of his magnificent 2022 draft day blunders.

    If Hartenstein bolts after 2 seasons, the mitigation disappears and the impact of those blunders increases significantly.

    the mitigation disappears and the impact of those blunders increases significantly.

    Except for the 2 years of play that we got out of him.

    You are not accounting for that and are ignoring the possibility that someone we drafted instead could potentially not have contributed the last 2 seasons the way iHart has and could potentially not even be on the team right now.

    I am accounting for that, Swifty. A career of Jalen Williams beats 2 years of Hartenstein (one of which was kinda blah) by a pretty huge margin. Hell even 7 cost controlled years of Jalen Duren or Mark Williams would, too.

    There’s really no point getting into this now because it hasn’t happened. Hopefully Leon gets it done and we can celebrate the win. The point is there is a lot riding on it for him.

    There’s really no point getting into this now because it hasn’t happened.

    And yet here we are!

    I kind of doubt we’ll have access to the MLE

    I’m not so sure. I could see a world where OG takes a haircut (35mil AAV), iHart re-signs (17mil), and they trade out of both firsts. This honestly seems like Rose’s MO tbh.

    Stopped by for some Jerry West appreciation. RIP. Best combined player/exec ever (?)

    Better than: MJ, Dave DeB, Phil Jax, Elgin Baylor ( who had to work for Donald Sterling), Isaiah Thomas( insert irony emoji), Mitch Kupchak, Joe Dumars, and Danny Ainge.
    Who is the GOAT of execs? Red ( 16 titles) Auerbach.

    It is hard to quantify Jerry West’s greatness in his playing days and overall impact on the NBA as an executive. While I never saw him play in person, I watched him on TV quite often. He was spoken about in the media with great reverence. It’s hard to think of a modern player to compare him to in terms of both his game and his stature. Maybe sort of a cross between Steph and Klay. He was by far the best offensive guard of his era, and a strong defensive player. He was a lanky 6’3″ with big, strong hands and great athleticism. At first glance his efficiency numbers don’t blow you away, but he twice led the league in TS%, in a league with Wilt and Oscar. Only fairly recently did he reveal that he suffered greatly as a kid under an abusive dad. Even though it was all tongue-in-cheek, it struck me as shameful that he was caricatured the way he was in Winning Time.

    Don’t forget Grunfeld 😉

    From Wiki: “During his eight-year tenure as a Knicks executive, the team had a record of 397 wins and 227 losses (.636) and a 61–44 playoff record. They won the Atlantic Division three times and reached the NBA finals twice.”

    Winning Time is a shameful bowl of fake news and flat out lies, West and his family did the right thing going after the producers.

    Alas that’s the way people learn history, watching movies and TV Series full of mistakes made for “dramatization” because “truth is boring”.

    * I know people who really think that a gladiator called Maximus Decimus Meridius killed emperor Commodus…

    They won the Atlantic Division three times and reached the NBA finals twice.”

    Grunfeld was fired before the Knicks reached the finals for that second time, Wikipedia.

    We need to start making some picks. If we don’t use our picks we will have zero players on rookie contracts next year.

    If OG and IHart return, and we don’t waive Bojan, our bench (players 6-9) will be making $56 million. Boston’s bench (6-9) this year made $20 million, Dallas $25 million, Denver $15 million, Milwaukee $20 million, Minnesota $36 million (but they have $19 million expiring and will probably see there bench pay go way down next year).

    We are giving away all of our savings on Brunson, Randle, and DDV by paying our bench through the nose. We will have one rotation player making less than $11 million next year.

    We need to figure out ways to bring those costs down especially as we have to extend and resign our guys. Drafting and playing players on rookie contracts is the most surefire way to get production that outpaces pay in the NBA.

    Best combined player/exec ever (?)

    Jerry West has to be. He’s a top 15ish player in NBA history and the only other player on that level with a successful executive career is Larry Bird who was POBO for the Pacers from 2003-2017.

    * I know people who really think that a gladiator called Maximus Decimus Meridius killed emperor Commodus…

    I also heard Maximus was from Australia and got in trouble for throwing his phone at a hotel employee 😉

    Re Grunfeld: Maybe Wiki has it wrong (and I’m not some big booster for him at all), but I was surprised at how successful Grunfeld’s run was, especially by comparison to the endless misery we have endured as fans.

    Maybe it was correlation not causation, but I’d sign up for eight years like Grunfeld’s. For his Washington years? Not so much.

    I read a report where a doctor said KP’s injury is so rare, they aren’t sure if he can play without doing further damage or not, but if they wrap it up and he can handle the pain, he can probably play.

    This morning I read that he’s going to warm up and see how it feels.

    IMO, if he can’t play or is so diminished he’s hurting the team, Dallas has a very good chance to win tonight, change the momentum, and make it a series.

    Jerry West is the logo for a reason. Once of the greatest players and execs ever. I agree that he is probably the only person who deserves the hall of fame as both a player and an executive.

    It’s amazing that he is a top 20-25 player and was probably even better as an executive.

    I am still waiting for us to have a player of his level or hell even an executive. Not in my lifetime.

    Doesn’t this say that Hartenstein cost us franchise altering talent?

    If you turn a pick with franchise-altering talent available into a two year C rental, the 27th pick in the 2023 draft, and three second round picks, that’s a terrible return.

    Pat Riley played in the NBA. Does his executive performance drag up his player performance to 2nd place in player-exec status?

    “We are giving away all of our savings on Brunson, Randle, and DDV by paying our bench through the nose. We will have one rotation player making less than $11 million next year.

    We need to figure out ways to bring those costs down especially as we have to extend and resign our guys. Drafting and playing players on rookie contracts is the most surefire way to get production that outpaces pay in the NBA.”

    This is fair, but I don’t think there’s a set formula for where, when, and how you spend your money or use your picks. Moreover, Bojan is only a placeholder, so looking beyond him, solid bench players on solid contracts, e.g. Mitch and Hart, and possibly DDV if we upgrade that position, are potentially fungible salaries to ship out in trades, whereas rookie-scale deals are just throw-ins. Also, having future draft picks increases the possibility that when you are finally capped out, possibly post-blockbuster, you still have some picks left over to do exactly what you are advocating for. And if you are a top-5 team, your own picks might have less utility than protected picks from other teams that have a reasonably good chance of conveying. So personally, I don’t share the same urgency that you seem to be conveying.

    I am still waiting for us to have a player of his level or hell even an executive. Not in my lifetime.

    In my parallel universe, Clyde is the greatest player/exec of all time, winning multiple titles by teaching our players to dress better and also to inbound the ball.

    If we don’t use Bojan’s contract as part of deal to get a significant upgrade somewhere, I’m going to feel even worse about the Grimes deal.

    Doesn’t this say that Hartenstein cost us franchise altering talent?

    Respectfully, KFNINJ, it does not. It was carefully worded specifically not to say that.

    The only point I’m trying to make here is Leon has a lot riding on bringing back Hartenstein. It’s a pretty basic statement that doesn’t require 7 different subarguments.

    Grunfeld was fired before the Knicks reached the finals for that second time, Wikipedia.

    Kind of shamelessly, I might add.

    I distinctly recalled Dave Checketts saying “there’s too much talent for this team to be struggling” when he fired Grunfeld, and one of the daytime hosts of WFAN spent days shouting “how is that the GM’s fault!?!? If there’s too much talent, the GM did good!”

    Grunfeld v Van Gundy would have been a great KB argument back in the day.

    “Jerry West is the logo for a reason.”

    The NBA logo was adopted in 1969, so the one and only reason was because of his greatness as a player.

    Tonight’s game reminds me a lot of Knicks-Pacers, Game 3. Road team up 2-0 but in a tenuous position because its high-impact, injury-prone stud just got knocked out.

    That game was probably one of the most pivotal games in our history.
    If we’d gotten that one win, we probably win in 5. OG doesn’t have to rush back. Jalen and Josh never get hurt.

    That Nembhardt shot is like the Melo block times 10.

    Anyway, I think the Celtics are in the same boat. Tonight is the championship for them. If they lose tonight, it’s going to follow the same script as Knicks-Pacers, with Luka winning game 7 on Boston’s court.

    Big, big game. Enough to get me interested again.

    The NBA logo was adopted in 1969, so the one and only reason was because of his greatness as a player.

    That is true but I also think that if West had faded away instead of staying important to the league there might have been a logo change to someone like Jordan or Kobe.

    saw tedeschi trucks last night here in Phx..blew me away..the whole band was tight but his guitar playing…still trying to process what I heard/saw…two hours…no pick…dudes fingers must be uber tough..

    From Begley:

    One thing worth noting on both Anunoby and Hartenstein: The Knicks obviously know that both players will garner strong interest from opposing teams. But even factoring that in, members of the organization felt earlier in the offseason that they were in a good place on both Anunoby and Hartenstein as both players approach their free agencies. That’s according to people in touch with the team after their season ended in a second round loss to Indiana.

    Bring these guys back and I can probably live with whatever else we do (unless there’s some 2021 draft-esque foolishness). I do still think we need to make one last talent infusion, but who knows if that opportunity will materialize this offseason and we should be able to take another crack at it next offseason. After that it basically becomes impossible from my POV.

    saw tedeschi trucks last night here in Phx..blew me away..the whole band was tight but his guitar playing…still trying to process what I heard/saw…two hours…no pick…dudes fingers must be uber tough..

    Trucks is great.

    There’s a video of him playing slow blues with BB King and John Mayer. They were both mesmerized by his playing. A lot of that slow sweet blues is the same licks you hear all the time, but his technique, feel and how it puts it all together is just awesome.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS0NHlWgi5w

    And if you are a top-5 team, your own picks might have less utility than protected picks from other teams that have a reasonably good chance of conveying. So personally, I don’t share the same urgency that you seem to be conveying.

    I think our urgency actually increased with our performance this year. Draft picks especially late ones will most likely take a year or two to become legit contributors so we need to bring them in now if we want to utilize them while we are still in our players prime.

    “That is true but I also think that if West had faded away instead of staying important to the league there might have been a logo change to someone like Jordan or Kobe.”

    That’s true as well, although changing a well-established logo is always controversial. At the same time, it is unseemly (and was in retrospect) for a sport that has been dominated by black players to have a white logo, even more so with greats who were also civil rights activists like Russell and Kareem to choose from, or even Oscar.

    Best combined player/exec ever (?)

    And in the foreseeable future as we have ample evidence LeBron would not be a good exec, Durant is nuts, and Curry is going to play golf.

    “I think our urgency actually increased with our performance this year. Draft picks especially late ones will most likely take a year or two to become legit contributors so we need to bring them in now if we want to utilize them while we are still in our players prime.”

    Yes but 80% of players drafted at out draft spots are unlikely to be contributors at any point, at least in any way more than an available minimum guy would contribute…either a youngish reclamation project or an aging vet. Personally, I’m with you. I just don’t see as much of an urgency as you do.

    The Mavs turned Kristaps Porzingis and Jalen Brunson and a 2nd Rd pick into Spencer Dinwiddie and Davis Bertans.

    The Celtics turned the pick that could’ve been Tyrese Maxey into Aaron Nesmith and turned their actual pick of Desmond Bane into two 2nds.

    You can win a championship while getting a lot less than a 1st, multiple 2nds, and Isaiah Hartenstein.

    The Boston Celtics are two wins away from their 18th championship, which would once again make them the winningest franchise in NBA history, and Bob Cousy is watching intently from his longtime home in Worcester. “I’m 95 [expletive] years old with one foot in the grave and I can barely move,” Cousy said over the phone after Game 2. “I know I’m in overtime. So everything in your life becomes more meaningful. And one of the last things I want to be able to see is for the Celtics to hang up banner No. 18.” – via Boston Globe

    Yes but 80% of players drafted at out draft spots are unlikely to be contributors at any point, at least in any way more than an available minimum guy would contribute…

    I looked at the numbers and for players drafted 24-38 (the range of our 3 picks) over the last 4 years more than 1/3 have played meaningful minutes in the playoffs. For players in their 3rd and 4th year it’s over half.

    That’s pretty good odds we’ll get one if not two decent players if we use our picks.

    On top of that there are 4-5 players who are legit playoff-level NBA starters and a couple who could be future all-stars.

    Also OG, Brunson, McBride, Hart, Bojan, and Robinson, not to mention IQ and Grimes, were all selected between 23-38 and all played major minutes for their teams while on their rookie deals.

    The idea that finding talent late in the draft is rare is false.

    Trucks is great.

    if i was swirling around what I heard in a wine glass like trying for tasting notes…my initial impression was hendrix, allman like sound, tom morello and eddie van halen…and various blues influences…alot to unpack in there…

    I looked at the numbers and for players drafted 24-38 (the range of our 3 picks) over the last 4 years more than 1/3 have played meaningful minutes in the playoffs. For players in their 3rd and 4th year it’s over half.

    Are you counting the most recent draft (2020-2023)?

    I’m counting 17 who played more than token playoff minutes, and a couple of those I feel I’m being generous on. Out of those 17, three of them are guys we did draft in Grimes, IQ, and Deuce. So 14/56 (removing Rokas as well) that weren’t picked by us, or 25%.

    That’s not controlling for the fact that you don’t want some of those guys playing in your playoff rotation (or that you’d want some guys playing whose team failed to reach the playoffs).

    The back of our bench was a pile of unplayable flaming garbage. Surely we could do better than Charlie “Good Grief” Brown, Obi’s brother and the other guys whose names I don’t even bother to remember. Take some swings in the draft! Maybe some pan out.

    “The idea that finding talent late in the draft is rare is false.”

    That’s not what I’m saying. I apologize for throwing out a number of 20%, which I agree was inaccurate, but it is probably at best somewhere in the 30’s, and it varies with the draft. The odds are that you will miss more often than you hit.
    The Knicks seem to be taking the approach that you can pay a premium and find sure things who are likely to be productive during their entire deals, and that having excess future draft picks helps you do that. You can package this year’s picks and someone on the roster to add a sure-fire top-8 rotation player, or kick the picks down the road to add players after you are capped out, or to have picks left over after acquiring another star. Or you can use them to dump salary to manipulate the cap situation in other creative ways and still have picks to burn.

    There’s a video of him playing slow blues with BB King and John Mayer. They were both mesmerized by his playing. A lot of that slow sweet blues is the same licks you hear all the time, but his technique, feel and how it puts it all together is just awesome.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS0NHlWgi5w

    Very interesting. The lobster claw-like fingerpicking style reminds me of James Jamerson.

    “The back of our bench was a pile of unplayable flaming garbage. Surely we could do better than Charlie “Good Grief” Brown, Obi’s brother and the other guys whose names I don’t even bother to remember. Take some swings in the draft! Maybe some pan out.”

    I’m trying to think of a team that lost its entire starting front line to injury before or during the playoffs, but said “hey, good thing the guys we drafted in the last couple of years and who came into the year as our 11th-15th roster filler saved the day!”

    Seriously, I don’t disagree at all. We should draft a couple of players this year. But for me, it’s more about the team being more fun to root for if there are draft picks on the roster than the theoretical utility of doing it. There’s probably a better non-draft alternative to rostering the DaQuan Jeffries’, Charlie Brown’s and Jacob Toppin’s of the world.

    It sounds like the actual utility of the draft being argued for is to avoid paying for guys like DDV and Josh Hart, rather than for filling out the end of the bench.

    RIP Jerry West. One of the best and fame didn’t get to him, always looked very likable.

    In my parallel universe, Clyde is the greatest player/exec of all time, winning multiple titles by teaching our players to dress better and also to inbound the ball.

    🧡💙

    I’m with JK on this one. We’re not talking 10-11-12 spots, who might be useful during the regular season or when injuries occur. We’re talking 13-14-15, who historically for this team never ever see the light of day unless it’s one minute left in a blowout (thanks, Thibs).

    I’d much rather those guys be rookies who might amount to something someday, than known nobodies who won’t ever. And if we get lucky, maybe one of them moves into the 10-11-12 group.

    Yeah, I mean, a full reboot of this past roster might be necessary for many reasons.

    First and foremost, we actually have some pretty good players if they’re healthy. It’s easy to just say “cut Bojan,” but he’s still a pretty good player when locked in. Also, spending $6-10 mil on a backup PG could be a fool’s errand if Deuce just improves a little bit during this offseason.

    Essentially, if everyone is healthy again and we pay OG/iHart, that’s a strong 9-man roster already:

    PG: Brunson, Deuce
    SG: DDV,
    SF: OG, Hart
    PF: Randle, Bojan
    C: iHart, Mitch

    Maybe you add one rookie to that (let’s say Shannon Jr. just for the hell of it), a cheaply-priced Burks, and a 2nd-round center to stay below the tax.

    That gives you between 10 and 12 legit players to start the season with… more than enough for Thibs. Then you hopefully have a strong rookie, many future draft picks, and Bojan’s expiring ready in case a star demands a trade during the season.

    He was by far the best offensive guard of his era,

    I think Oscar would take umbrage with that statement. No doubting the greatness of West, though.

    excellent Trucks vid strat…

    hanging out in San Jose without my laptop, TV, or Playstation…I feel so naked…

    thankfully though just steps from beautiful sunny vale

    yep, so for a bit I’m stuck with you all for entertainment 😊

    saw tedeschi trucks last night here in Phx..blew me away..the whole band was tight but his guitar playing…still trying to process what I heard/saw…two hours…no pick…dudes fingers must be uber tough..

    He probably has some good right hand calluses. He plays at an extremely high volume though with loads of distortion, so he doesn’t need to pluck very hard with his right hand, especially with all the slide playing. It’s impressive how much control he has with the slide and that right hand technique, it allows him to do a lot of things you don’t hear out of slide players.

    From the “old dog learns new tricks” department, I’ve been working really hard on my fingerstyle picking technique over the last year and it’s paying dividends. I get asked to play fingerstyle a lot on recordings and never felt that I was great at it, so I made a habit of picking up my Martin every day and playing fingerstyle for like a half hour. I now have calluses on my right hand that never go away, and can now play the first eight bars of “Never Going Back Again” with reasonable fluency.

    Maybe irrelevant but thought I’d bring it up since this blog sometimes turns into musicblogger.

    A giant in French music, Francoise Hardy, passed away last night at age 80. She basically was the archetype for sexy French ingenue singing over light jazzy pop and kicked off the Ye Ye girls movement of the 60’s.

    I’ve been spending the last few years trying to relearn French and started listening to her a few months back in order to help with my language learning and absolutely fell in love with her voice. You’ve probably heard her songs before in countless films but maybe just didn’t know it was her. But after Edith Piaf, she’s probably the most famous female French singer of all-time. I think she put out about 30 albums up until the early 2000’s.

    I’m with JK on this one. We’re not talking 10-11-12 spots, who might be useful during the regular season or when injuries occur. We’re talking 13-14-15, who historically for this team never ever see the light of day unless it’s one minute left in a blowout (thanks, Thibs).

    I’d much rather those guys be rookies who might amount to something someday, than known nobodies who won’t ever. And if we get lucky, maybe one of them moves into the 10-11-12 group.

    I’m going to flip this and say you’re wasting all the surplus value a rookie deal generates if he’s your 13th man.

    I’m trying to think of a team that lost its entire starting front line to injury before or during the playoffs, but said “hey, good thing the guys we drafted in the last couple of years and who came into the year as our 11th-15th roster filler saved the day!

    It’s not really about the playoffs. If a couple of your starters get hurt, your team is not winning a title, that’s just how it goes. But it’s more about having some guys who could play a bit in the regular season and who might develop into guys who can play on a playoff team, rather than having a bunch of dudes who aren’t good now and have no potential to ever be good in the future (like Charlie Brown).

    It’s impressive how much control he has with the slide and that right hand technique, it allows him to do a lot of things you don’t hear out of slide players.

    what i think i was seeing when had the slide going on some leads…like he was just moving the slide at warp speed and then he took his right hand and made it real stiff…like i didn’t see the individual fingers move at all but it sounded like a lead with individual notes being picked but he was doing that with just the speed of moving the slide and his stiff right hand….but it was so fast I couldn’t really tell..

    The Mavs turned Kristaps Porzingis and Jalen Brunson and a 2nd Rd pick into Spencer Dinwiddie and Davis Bertans.

    The Celtics turned the pick that could’ve been Tyrese Maxey into Aaron Nesmith and turned their actual pick of Desmond Bane into two 2nds.

    You can win a championship while getting a lot less than a 1st, multiple 2nds, and Isaiah Hartenstein.

    Yeah, man. You win the “can the Knicks still win a chip if they make bad trades” argument no one was having.

    Another straw man slayed.

    of the 360 players drafted 24-38 since 2000

    -16 made at least one all star team
    -34 had at least one season of 2.5 vorp
    -99 had at least one postseason playing at least 20 mpg and a bpm above -2.0

    Derek Trucks is not only one of the great guitarists of all time but he also put together a juggernaut 10-piece team around he and his wife, making him the Jerry West of player/exec musicians.

    We’re not talking 10-11-12 spots,

    I kinda thought we were.

    I think the expectation of having more than 12 serviceable players is pretty far fetched. And EB is right that it wastes a lot of a pick’s utility if you’re burying him that deep.

    It also means you’re carrying 3 extra guaranteed salaries. Don’t we save about $7/8mm against the cap having those bums on two-way contracts at 13, 14, 15?

    Thx so much for the Trucks link. I’m embarrassed to say I had not heard of him.

    Like many here, I play guitar as a hobby, and these days I am struggling to learn fingerpicking and play more acoustic after years of bashing only the same three chords on electric in bands my entire youth. Fingerpicking is … too … hard. Haha.

    @JK47 I’m glad to hear that skill can be challenging even for a seasoned pro like you. Send more links when you feel like sharing. We love supporting your work.

    PS — LMK if you have a shortcut to play like Robben Ford does on Rickie Lee Jones’s (unfairly maligned) record Pop Pop. His sound and exquisite taste is what I’m chasing now I’m old 😉

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W3uuSfaH7g

    A giant in French music, Francoise Hardy, passed away last night at age 80. She basically was the archetype for sexy French ingenue singing over light jazzy pop and kicked off the Ye Ye girls movement of the 60’s.

    Françoise Hardy might be the most beautiful pop star ever.

    Don’t we save about $7/8mm against the cap

    I mean for apron purposes.

    I’m still learning all these nuances but I thought the two-way deals of Tom, Dick, and Daquan don’t count towards our apron figure. But if we fill those last spots with draft picks on guaranteed salaries, that money definitely does count and pushes us a lot closer to the apron.

    “Françoise Hardy might be the most beautiful pop star ever.”

    I don’t know about all *that*.

    When you hear the term “ye-ye girls” some minds immediately turn to Godard’s Masculin Féminin (*) and it turns out that she indeed had a cameo appearance.

    (*) Which could have been called “The Children of Marx and Coca-Cola.”

    It also means you’re carrying 3 extra guaranteed salaries. Don’t we save about $7/8mm against the cap having those bums on two-way contracts at 13, 14, 15?

    The minimum a salary can count against the cap is $2,093,637 and all one-year minimum deals whether it’s an undrafted rookie or a ten year veteran count against the cap at that number. So the only way to save that money is to carry open roster spots. Teams very rarely carry more than one open roster spot and with our history of injuries it seems that it would be unwise for us to not roster a full team.

    As for the 13-15th spots the goal isn’t to necessarily draft a player this year and have him in our top 12 this season. That would be great but more likely, especially picking later in the draft, the goal is to have our rookies be in those 13-15 spots for a year or two and then break into the rotation in year 3 or 4.

    They also as serve as insurance during the regular season so you don’t have to shrink your rotation down to 6 players in February despite the fact that you have 10 available players.

    And they are only guaranteed for 2 years so if by year three they are not working out you waive them. It’s not some long-term commitment.

    We have made 5 picks between 24-38 over the last 6 years and 4 of them have played significant roles for us and the 5th hasn’t come over from Europe yet. Our track record is very good.

    Also it’s worth a shot because sometimes you draft Jalen Brunson, Jaden McDaniels, Desmond Bane, Immanuel Quickley, Josh Hart, Mitchell Robinson, etc.

    I’m still learning all these nuances but I thought the two-way deals of Tom, Dick, and Daquan don’t count towards our apron figure. But if we fill those last spots with draft picks on guaranteed salaries, that money definitely does count and pushes us a lot closer to the apron.

    2-way contracts are in addition to your 15 roster spots. They don’t effect each other at all and two-way contracts do not count towards the cap and do not take up roster spots.

    As for guaranteed vs non-guaranteed contracts it does not make a difference towards the cap or the apron, unless you waive them and then their money stays on the cap.

    It also means you’re carrying 3 extra guaranteed salaries. Don’t we save about $7/8mm against the cap having those bums on two-way contracts at 13, 14, 15?

    2-ways are 16-18 on the roster.

    For cap purposes you can shave money by carrying the required 14 players (2-ways don’t count towards the minimum) and use your 2-way guys if you go full Grizzlies and lose 16 of your top 15 players.

    The 2-ways have been great for discovering undrafted talent but having 18 guys per team drains the talent pool for teams looking for viable rotation pieces that haven’t been locked in.

    +1 on loving Francoise Hardy. Too much good style. Dream team of that era:

    G — Hardy
    G — Birkin
    SF — Anna Karina
    PF — Monica Vitti
    C — Deneuve

    Bench: Twiggy, Sedgwick, Veruschka, Dorleac, Moreau, Seberg, Berenson
    Coach: Coco.

    Bardot plays (literally) no defense, so no roster spot for her 😉

    The most infallible source on the internet (ptmilo) told me a couple weeks back that if you have 12 guys on your roster you don’t have to add any more:

    https://knickerblogger.net/2024/05/21/knicks-morning-news-2024-05-21/#comment-909031

    That’s presumably why we (and most teams) carry junk at 13, 14, and 15. We pay for 12 salaries and have 3 we can cut to get under an apron if we have to.

    I’m with you on using the first round picks, but we should be talking about the 11th and 12th men here. We’re not going 12 deep with serviceable veterans and then carrying three draft picks. That’s just roster bloat.

    We could find better players for the two-way contracts. But we should not replace them with first round picks.

    The only point I’m trying to make here is Leon has a lot riding on bringing back Hartenstein. It’s a pretty basic statement that doesn’t require 7 different subarguments

    This I agree with, and it’s the same for OG.

    You only get charged for incomplete roster slots up to 12 during the offseason, but all teams have to have a minimum of 14 players rostered by the end of training camp. So you can’t do much in the way of LT and/or apron avoidance by just not signing players.

    You can sign minimums instead of rookie-scale deals to potentially save some money, but in our case (i.e. dealing with the 24th, 25th, and 38th picks) those savings will be minimal to nonexistent.

    Anyway, yeah, it’s kind of a waste to carry anything but minimum deals at the back of your roster. If your rookie isn’t better than those guys pretty quickly, you probably drafted the wrong guy.

    We could use a couple more Jacob Toppins, but our guys were on other NBA rosters before joining the Knicks.

    @ShamsCharania
    Celtics say Kristaps Porzingis is out for Game 3 of NBA Finals vs. Mavericks.

    @ShamsCharania
    Celtics say Kristaps Porzingis is out for Game 3 of NBA Finals vs. Mavericks.

    Oh right, the finals. Is game 3 tonight, tomorrow, or a month from now?

    I think the back of the roster serves a couple of other purposes not mentioned here. It gives you enough players to do five on fives in practice, even with injuries keeping some out of practice. And I think sometimes it helps you maintain relationship with player agents.

    You only get charged for incomplete roster slots up to 12 during the offseason, but all teams have to have a minimum of 14 players rostered by the end of training camp. So you can’t do much in the way of LT and/or apron avoidance by just not signing players.

    exactly. but if you can stay below the apron during the offseason based on the 12 slots you can still aggregate salaries in trades, which might really matter. a weird thing that i’m not sure has happened would be if you were hard capped with the 4f charges, but two mins would then push you over the apron. guessing the nba would grant some kind of exception in that case plus a slap on the wrist to the team.

    That’s the right move on KP. They have a chance to win tonight without him. He takes them from great team to historically great team. If they should blow games 3 and 4 in Dallas, then they can consider taking a bigger risk playing him in game 5.

    1. I think we should bring Rokas in for summer league. If he looks ready to be our backup PG we are done there. If he doesn’t, we can still keep him if he wants to stay. We could always use a competent 3rd string PG with a chance to grow into the job. But then we should be looking at guys like Brogdon, Jones etc…

    2. OG will sign back in NY. I make it 99% (I left 1% for a nuclear war with Russia)

    3. Hartenstein will likely be back in NY. I make it 75%. If he’s not back, that means they either made a trade for Towns or he went somewhere else. If he leaves we should try to draft Edey or sign someone like Valanciunas.

    4. The use of the draft picks depends on whether there’s a trade out there for either a backup PG, Towns or someone like that is in play. If no one is in play for a trade, then we should be looking to draft 2-3 players to replenish the youthful upside to the team we lost with the Quickley, RJ, and Grimes trades.

    5. We should be looking to move Bojan as part of an upgrade trade that may also include draft capital (maybe backup PG). If keeping him complicates apron issues they can release him, but they better do it for a damn good player or the Grimes trade looks worse.

    Well, if you draft guys, the hope is that they actually turn into something decent, so then they become something more than your 13-15 guys. Some players require development. I don’t know why this would be even mildly controversial— it seems better to have guys who actually might turn into something than to have no-hopers at the end of the bench.

    I’m pretty sure Rokas will play in summer league unless Lithuania gets into the Olympics. I assume then he’ll play for Lithuania then. Playing in the Olympics over summer league isn’t an issue for me because a) It’s completely understandable if he makes that choice and b) that’s tougher competition than summer league so you should still get an idea of what he can do..

    it would be nice to move on to discussing who we might or should draft in the unlikely event that Leon actually decides to do that.

    “Well, if you draft guys, the hope is that they actually turn into something decent, so then they become something more than your 13-15 guys. Some players require development. I don’t know why this would be even mildly controversial— it seems better to have guys who actually might turn into something than to have no-hopers at the end of the bench.”

    But the cost of having those guys who might turn in to something but probably won’t is the loss of the draft pick. That doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea to draft the players, but the choice you presented left out an important component.

    Deuce McBride played an average of 9 minutes a game over 40 games as a rookie, and now he’s… well I don’t know what position he plays, but he played between 30 and 40 minutes of it in the second round of the playoffs.

    Not everybody is Kevin Knox as a rookie…

    Well, this is boring. But somehow it’s still better than reading about bodily functions.

    I just got back to ORD to fly back to LGA but I’m flying from Delta and I can confirm that flatulence in the bathroom in American was way better. The gents in that bathroom really knew how to appreciate a great wind. I’m hoping you didn’t suffer too much hearing that a lockerroom moose call was responsible for winning us a playoff game. Sorry. Reading it. You read it.

    “Deuce McBride played an average of 9 minutes a game over 40 games as a rookie, and now he’s… well I don’t know what position he plays, but he played between 30 and 40 minutes of it in the second round of the playoffs.

    Not everybody is Kevin Knox as a rookie…”

    I’m not seeing the point here….

    Well, if you draft guys, the hope is that they actually turn into something decent, so then they become something more than your 13-15 guys. Some players require development. I don’t know why this would be even mildly controversial— it seems better to have guys who actually might turn into something than to have no-hopers at the end of the bench.

    There’s the opportunity cost of using your pick to improve the part of your roster that actually plays.

    You’re wasting value if you strap them to the end of your bench. Quentin Grimes is a nice asset to have, but he’s a lot nicer at $2M than $12M. At $2M he lets you allocate resources to other rotational players. At $12M or at the end of the bench, he doesn’t.

    We want a steady flow of rookies. But if we just flood the end of the bench with them, we’ve failed to extract the greatest portion of their value. Value that’s often better spent elsewhere.

    Sorry Z, just a small sample of how a back-of-the-bench rookie can become something. I don’t quite know what, but something.

    That 2021-2022 team ran 25 players deep over the season, but I think it wouldn’t be far off to say Deuce was our 12th or 13th man on that team.

    The Knox thing was a joke, as he should have been our 15th man but instead started 57 games and averaged 29 minutes per. Remember those good old days?

    Deuce McBride played an average of 9 minutes a game over 40 games as a rookie, and now he’s… well I don’t know what position he plays, but he played between 30 and 40 minutes of it in the second round of the playoffs.

    He plays winner position. Most of the time he’s a backup, obviously, but in the playoffs we played a lot of two-winner lineups to try to match up with the 76ers and Pacers, both of which struggle with winners.

    It’s not really a waste if your rookie doesn’t contribute in year 1. Most first-year players don’t help you win games. Ideally, they pitch in by year two, but I don’t think it’s really a problem to roster 2 rookies behind 9 or 10 vets. If those rookies earn playing time in their first year, more power to em.

    It’s not really a waste if your rookie doesn’t contribute in year 1.

    Yeah we really gotta get over this organizational flaw.

    “Sorry Z, just a small sample of how a back-of-the-bench rookie can become something. I don’t quite know what, but something.”

    He’s a nice outcome for a 36th pick! It would be interesting to find out what you could get in a trade for him straight up, especially now that he’s extended.

    Luka is not exactly OG Anunoby but it looks like he absolutely can’t move on defense.

    This is all Minnesota’s fault.

    Then again so was the last Celtics’ title.

    How the hell did this Mavs team get here?

    Because they beat the overachieving Timberwolves. Denver was the only hope.

    They can absord the loss of KP because Horford is a very good replacement , AL can copy what Porzingis does on offense [spacing the floor ] and is a good defender.

    Lively and Gafford also have no offensive game to speak of .

    This is so eerily similar to our game 3. The Celtics had a much larger lead before they stopped scoring in the 4Q, though.

    Luka seems like he really shouldn’t be playing.

    Unfortunately this feels like one of those fake comebacks that will result in a tough loss for Dallas

    Luka fouling out might actually be good them right now. Boston’s been getting so many easy shots going after him. Just put shooters around Kyrie and let him cook.

    When Boston starts clanking everything during key sequences in a game they seem mentally soft to me, but they are probably going to win anyway.

    They’re definitely soft, KFNINJ, but they’re too good to fail this year against this level of competition.

    Luka’s playing but he’s not here.

    Jayson Tatum has a true shooting percentage of 40.9 in the 2024 NBA Finals.

    This was before game 3..

    Ha. That’s why I removed it, but not quick enough.

    Anyway… I watched one game of these finals, and it was too much. Start the draft already.

    Justin Russo
    @FlyByKnite
    There’s been 100 minutes of this NBA Finals series without Kristaps Porzingis on the floor. The score?

    Boston Celtics 215
    Dallas Mavericks 208

    Just out talented left and right

    “3. Hartenstein will likely be back in NY. I make it 75%. If he’s not back, that means they either made a trade for Towns or he went somewhere else. If he leaves we should try to draft Edey or sign someone like Valanciunas.”

    How are we going to know what’s going on with IHart in time to draft Edey?

    Man did the 2024 NBA playoffs ever peak too soon or what. It followed the The Old Man dramatic arc to a 0 share and losing its timeslot to reruns of Is It Cake. (I have moved onto summer concert season and came here for more Tedeschi Trucks talk only to be informed of a basketball game that had taken place. Blah. But, Pepper, great setlist last night! What a treat, wish I was there with you.)

    The opening rendition of Anyhow was amazing…just took off from there…

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