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Knicks Morning News (2024.06.13)


  • NBA great Jerry West dead at 86 – New York Daily News
    [New York Daily News] – Wed, 12 Jun 2024 13:59:21 GMT

    NBA great Jerry West dead at 86


  • Knicks get high-flying star defender for Mitchell Robinson in latest mock trade – Empire Sports Media
    [Empire Sports Media] – Wed, 12 Jun 2024 16:30:07 GMT
    1. Knicks get high-flying star defender for Mitchell Robinson in latest mock trade
    2. Knicks Trade Proposal Swaps Mitchell Robinson for 2020 Champ
    3. Potential Knicks-Bulls Trade May Swap Mitchell Robinson for NBA Champ, Alex Caruso
    4. Knicks Center Included in Latest Trade Proposal
    5. Knicks Pitch Would Move Mitchell Robinson for Top-10 2024 Draft Pick & More


  • CAA’s latest signing hints at free agency move Knicks could make this summer – Daily Knicks
    [Daily Knicks] – Wed, 12 Jun 2024 21:35:39 GMT

    CAA’s latest signing hints at free agency move Knicks could make this summer


  • Knicks could add $17 million in salary space by releasing veteran scorer – Empire Sports Media
    [Empire Sports Media] – Wed, 12 Jun 2024 14:30:05 GMT

    Knicks could add $17 million in salary space by releasing veteran scorer


  • Creating 3 Win-Win Trade Scenarios For The 2024 NBA Offseason – Fadeaway World
    [Fadeaway World] – Wed, 12 Jun 2024 13:05:05 GMT

    Creating 3 Win-Win Trade Scenarios For The 2024 NBA Offseason

  • 100 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.06.13)”

    Wow.

    Can we have dumb, repetitive arguments about minutes and what is or is not Thibs’ fault? Can we *please* have dumb, repetitive arguments about minutes and what is or is not Thibs’ fault? 🙂

    Noticed Johnny Bryant interviewed for the Cavs HC job but did not make the shortlist. Do we care that much if he leaves?–I know Julius credited him for fixing his attitude and assume he would be the default position if Thibs got canned mid-season but I think both things are moot now.

    One thing that is a huge unknown this offseason, and that directly relates to the iHart situation, is: what is the status of Mitch’s foot injury?

    Whatever they did prior to his return clearly didn’t take after four months. Did he return too early, or is it going to be a recurrent problem?

    The issue is that if we do in fact lose iHart, can we depend on Mitch to be a starting C for 82 games? Sure feels like a hard no to me. I see a guy that will at best be in and out of the lineup if he is managed properly, i.e. minutes restrictions and load management, and at worst will break down at a critical juncture, i.e. close enough to the playoffs to be to us what KP was to the Celts.

    “Noticed Johnny Bryant interviewed for the Cavs HC job but did not make the shortlist. Do we care that much if he leaves?–I know Julius credited him for fixing his attitude and assume he would be the default position if Thibs got canned mid-season but I think both things are moot now.”

    I really like him as an assistant. Not sure I would like him as much as a head coach, but you could probably do a lot worse.

    Dallas has a few problems and none of them of new

    1. Doncic can’t stay in front of anyone on defense

    2. Doncic (and now Irving) dribble too much instead of moving the ball

    3. Dallas needs a consistent #3 option. If they aren’t going to move the ball well and Boston can guard them without doubling all the time, they need someone else that can create and score because the role players are not going to get as many lobs and open looks as they were getting before.

    The issue is that if we do in fact lose iHart, can we depend on Mitch to be a starting C for 82 games?

    No

    We need another C we can count on because even if we keep I-Hart, he’s had Achilles issues that may limit his minutes. Depending on what happens in the trade market, Edey has to at least be considered. Maybe they can even move up a couple of spots for him.

    We also have to consider the possibility that Mitch could be part of a trade.

    The Celts are representing an evolution of the game, and the Knicks and other competitors are going to be hard-pressed to keep up. Mazzulla has done an outstanding job of both coaching and staying out of the way of a hardened, veteran team that largely knows what it’s doing on both ends.

    Their only weakness is rebounding, and when you shoot like they do, it hardly matters. Unlike D’Antoni’s Rockets or D’Antoni’s Suns, they are excellent defensively and don’t have to be hitting 3’s to win. You can’t really physically bully them, not with Jrue, White, Brown and (to a degree) Tatum able to guard multiple positions in switches. In fact, I would call Jrue, White and Brown physically intimidating.

    Their bench will probably get better as well. Prichard is better than I gave him credit for, he’s got some TJ McConnell peskiness on D and is really a dead-eye shooter. Hauser is a more well-rounded version of Steve Novak.

    Hate to say it but they are looking like a 3-peat kind of team right now, at least in terms of getting to the finals. And now that they will have the monkey off their back, they should only get even tougher to beat. They have had a cakewalk this time around, but it seems like they had another level to go to if things got tight. I think they would have handily beaten the Nuggets, Wolves or Thunder as they are currently configured, even at full strength.

    Re: farting, gypsies, and Montana:
    Ridiculous and irrelevant.

    Insubordinate and churlish!

    I can’t log in on my desktop. I get some crazy error message.

    I turned it on in the second half. The Celtics immediately scored on two beautiful back cuts. I turned it off. Finals are kind of a buzzkill after an excellent playoff season.

    I think they would have handily beaten the Nuggets, Wolves or Thunder as they are currently configured, even at full strength.

    I agree.

    Personally, I think Denver was the second best team this year. Maybe it was injuries, they were worn down, the specific matchup or just randomness, but imo they should have beaten the T-Wolves. IMO they are better than Dallas and would have beaten them. They need to deepen their bench again for next year.

    Honestly, at 100%, the way DDV played this year (which was quite a bit better than I expected) we may have had the 3rd best team in the NBA. It’s at least arguable.

    A few of those teams (and others) have a lot more developmental upside than we do and it’s close enough now that we could get passed by a clear margin by a few this year. So I think it’s important we address all our needs this off season. We have to keep up.

    For the Knicks to be competitive with the Celts, they need at least two significant pieces. As currently configured, only the most ardent Brunson stans would think that he will be a significant net positive against them. There is no one in their starting lineup he can defensively match up with, and they have three big, long, quick, physical defenders (possibly four) that they can alternate on him to wear him down. They need a 2-ways stud to start at the two so that DDV can come off the bench. My preference is for Mikal, but PG13 would also work. Then they need a change either at the 4 or 5. Randle would work with a stretch 5, but less so with either of our current options. KAT could work but you would probably need to move on from Thibs, and I don’t think he will be available anyway. Maybe Filipowski is that guy? Anyway, I think the idea that “if we only had stayed healthy we would have given them a run for their money” is not true.

    “I turned it on in the second half. The Celtics immediately scored on two beautiful back cuts. I turned it off. Finals are kind of a buzzkill after an excellent playoff season.”

    Seems sort of strange that you and other KBers feel this way, I had always thought of this community as being basketball aficionados first and Knicks fans second. As much as I hate the Celts, they play the game at a very high level, and Luka does enough spectacular to at least make the Mavs worth watching. But to each his own!

    Dallas has a few problems and none of them of new

    1. Doncic can’t stay in front of anyone on defense

    2. Doncic (and now Irving) dribble too much instead of moving the ball

    Doncic is not healthy enough to be playing basketball, Strat. He’s just taking painkillers and doing it anyway. He looks like he’s at 40% out there, especially in 2nd halfs.

    I really don’t care what Dallas’ problems are, though. Fuck them.

    Other than playing in Boston this is an extremely likable Celtics team. Jaylen Brown has become one of my favorite players to watch. Jrue Holliday, Derrick White, and Al Horford already were. But what really both shocked and impressed me was the evolution of Mezzulla.

    Don’t forget Doc Rivers was considered the weak link of 2008. It’s entirely possible Mezzulla goes on to be one of the better coaches in the game after this. He’s probably being propped up by a lot of great assistants but he’s done an outstanding job.

    I hope our organization is taking notes. Our ISO style is never going to work against these guys, but we have some of the components to be like them. We’re currently a player or two short, but so were they for 7 years.

    The biggest question is if we can fight these guys with a different style, or do we have to convert to their style to beat them.

    And what I mean by that is they have two floor spacing centers and we have two OREB dominating centers. Is one way as good as the other? TBD.

    Anyway, I think the idea that “if we only had stayed healthy we would have given them a run for their money” is not true.

    At full health–both teams–I agree. But the thinking at the time was that we would be at full health (sans Julius) and they would be KP-less or KP-far from 100%. Our scrappiness, especially if we stole a win, would rattle them ala 2023. So I think given those parameters “run for their money” was accurate. Who knows who would have won (probably the C’s given HCA) but alas.

    I think KP’s biggest contribution this season was that he kept Al Horford healthy. They are not that different of a team without KP because they have multiple guys who can take on whatever he does except protect the rim. I agree that a healthy KP makes them even tougher for us to beat, but we have bigger problems in the non-C positional matchups. To me, it’s really about their two-headed monster backcourt.

    I had always thought of this community as being basketball aficionados first and Knicks fans second.

    If that were true, I would have rooted for the Spurs in 1999. My order is Knick fan, Celtic hater, basketball aficionado, Heat hater.

    I mean, I was doing stuff and then I was extremely tired. I love Luka also but watching him not play defense and whine to the refs stimulates none of my erogenous zones….

    Also, I hate the Celtics

    I think KP’s biggest contribution this season was that he kept Al Horford healthy. They are not that different of a team without KP because they have multiple guys who can take on whatever he does except protect the rim. I agree that a healthy KP makes them even tougher for us to beat, but we have bigger problems in the non-C positional matchups. To me, it’s really about their two-headed monster backcourt.

    They probably could have won the chip this year with Horford and a reasonably good backup C, so in that sense I get what you’re saying.

    Maybe it’s just your phrasing I disagree with, bc he did a lot more than keep Horford healthy. He made them shock-and-awe good, like Durant Warriors.

    Holliday was really the addition that put them over the top. Give them a healthy Porzingis and no Holliday, I doubt they win the title. But Holliday and no Porzingis got it done.

    Fucking Bucks, man. Go back in time and make it a three-way trade, you dolts.

    Eagles residency at The Sphere this fall is peak Dolan.

    …just keep him focussed on The Sphere…

    “But the way you worded it really underestimates Porzingis. He did a lot more than keep Horford healthy. He made them shock-and-awe good, like Durant Warriors.”

    That’s fair, I was mainly responding to BernieErnie’s point that you can discount him due to injury prone-ness. He was magnificent in Game 1, and for most of the season when he was healthy. But in the playoffs, it was clear that he was their most dispensable top-5 player, mainly due to Horford being so mentally tough and still physically capable.

    Which underscores that the main hope for any decline going forward is at the C position. There are only so many KPs and Horfords to go around, and they smartly locked up two of them. They also have Kornet on the bench, who is a much better option than Sims. We have zero, and not even a poor man’s version. We need to get one.

    I haven’t done a deep dive on Filipowski, but superficially he seems like a guy to target in the draft.

    Holliday was really the addition that put them over the top. Give them a healthy Porzingis and no Holliday, I doubt they win the title. But Holliday and no Porzingis got it done.

    IMO Holiday is quite a bit better than Smart, but without Holiday and with a healthy Smart and KP they’d still be a handful against Dallas.

    There are only so many KPs and Horfords to go around, and they smartly locked up two of them. We have zero, and not even a poor man’s version. We need to get one.

    The main stylistic difference between us is at C. But our centers are really good, too! I think we have to see how our style (OREB/extra possesions) works against theirs (5-out, bombs away). They are actually both highly recommended strategies by advanced statistics, so I’m not ready to say we need to scrap our two-headed monster to do things their way.

    I’m not ready to say we need to scrap our two-headed monster to do things their way.

    The problem is our two-headed monster is really a 1.5-headed monster as Mitch has missed close to a whole season in the last two years.

    “Holliday was really the addition that put them over the top. Give them a healthy Porzingis and no Holliday, I doubt they win the title. But Holliday and no Porzingis got it done.”

    Four times in quick succession (there was one more just prior to this) was just more than I can take. 🙂 It’s Jrue Holiday, with one “L.” And it’s Mazzulla.

    Re: farting, gypsies, and Montana:
    Ridiculous and irrelevant.

    Irascible ghost. Gypsy is a painted horse. A sweet boy no less.

    Macri does a nice job in today’s newsletter of looking at how much “real” the January run was for this team, and whether that’s enough to justify simply running it back, especially given how unstoppable the Celtics look right now.

    His proposal for a dream offseason, assuming a return to full health for Julius, Mitch, OG, et al: re-sign OG and iHart, extend Brunson and Julius, and trade Bogey plus a mix of our picks and some of the protected picks to Chicago for Caruso and Ayo, really leaning into the defensive menace identity. (His feeling is also that with a healthy Julius, we don’t need another high-usage offensive player.)

    Saw something on TV before work that said the Celtics got by Luka on like 70% of their drive attempts where he was the primary defender last night. He was an absolute statue on defense.

    This Celtics team is really good, which sucks, but nothing lasts. Porzingis is extremely brittle, Horford is old, Holiday is old, the Jays are really expensive etc. I don’t think the Knicks should be planning on improving in a way that’s specifically tailored to beat this Boston team

    Celtics threepeating with a 37 year old Jrue Holiday, 41 year old Al Horford, and KP with 3 more season-ending leg injuries… oh yeah that’s a lock for sure.

    His proposal for a dream offseason, assuming a return to full health for Julius, Mitch, OG, et al: re-sign OG and iHart, extend Brunson and Julius

    The Knicks shouldn’t be in any rush to extend Randle. If they want to see how the playoffs look with him sure, but no need to lock themselves into a contract that could be very hard to move.

    I don’t know why people think we would’ve given Boston a run for their money if we were healthy. I like this team but we’re not real title contenders let alone on Boston’s level. Boston won 64 games, we won 50. Boston’s SRS was 10.75, ours was 4.36. Boston’s net rating was +11.76, ours was +4.8. Boston was 1st in ORtg, we were 7th. Boston was 3rd in DRtg, we were 10th. Boston went 4-0 against us this season.

    I know people like to view our January when we went 14-2 as somehow our “true” record when healthy and representative of what we should look like over a full season. But, a hot month for a team isn’t any more representative of a team’s baseline talent then it is for a player who gets hot for a month.

    In 2022-23, we went 20-10 to finish the season; that’s a 54 win pace. That same team went 17-15 to start this season before the OG trade.

    In 2020-2021, we went 30-16 after trading for Derrick Rose, a 53 win pace, and went 17-7 to end the season, a 58 win pace. We finished under .500 the next year.

    I’m not saying that we’re a bad team and we’re going to be under .500 and out of the playoffs next year. We’re a good to very good team that should win ~50 games next season. But we’re not on the level of this Boston team that has steamrolled the NBA this season and, barring a ridiculously lopsided trade or extreme luck in the draft, we won’t be next season either.

    Also regarding I-Hart in free agency, I don’t think Presti is going to go away from the 5 out offense to sign him. They will pick a center at pick 12 to eat up spot minutes.

    I hope our organization is taking notes. Our ISO style is never going to work against these guys, but we have some of the components to be like them. We’re currently a player or two short, but so were they for 7 years.

    I’m not sure about this. We do iso, but it’s often a prelude to a kick out for a three. If we can make those better than Dallas it could work.

    It’s Jrue Holiday, with one “L.”

    Thank you, Doogie. I was certain he was talking about the infamous gunfighter Doc Holliday.

    I don’t know why people think we would’ve given Boston a run for their money if we were healthy

    Chicanery, my view was simply that they seemed to lack mental toughness and we did not. That means a lot in the postseason. Ashame they were never tested, because if they win the chip that small advantage probably vanished.

    We would not have won at a 14-2 win pace the rest of the way but we also would not have been a barely 500 team for 6 weeks if Randle and OG didn’t get hurt. I suspect we’d have won at least a few more games..probably in the 54 win range.

    I think the theory was if we were fully healthy (Randle, OG and Mitch) and Boston didn’t have KP, we would have a puncher’s chance. I still think this holds true. I think fully healthy we are arguably the second best team in the league right now. Of course I think that because I’m a massive homer but I don’t think it’s an absurd thing to say.

    Boston won’t last forever. KP may never really come back. Holiday is old and Horford is even older. They were healthy all regular season and then faced depleted teams in every round of the playoffs. That won’t happen again next year.

    That being said, our work is not done. The way I see it we have 2 things that need to happen simultaneously. We need one massive upgrade somewhere. Doesn’t have to be a star, per say, but we need that Holiday or KP type upgrade somewhere. Mikal could be it though I like the idea of Caruso too. Second thing, we need to strengthen the end of the rotation a bit. The 11th through 13th spots. The guys who fill in when dudes get hurt.

    Part of that is Thibs REALLY needs to go to a 10 man rotation for the regular season. We’ve debated the minutes thing to death but end of the day, there is truth that the organization needs to emphasize health and rest during the regular season. Doesn’t have to be load management but just going 10 deep would be a good start.

    the infamous gunfighter Doc Holliday.

    my favorite Doc on screen is Val Kilmer’s version in Tombstone..

    We actually don’t ISO that much. We were 11 in the NBA in ISO% and Boston was actually 4th. But, we are terrible at isolations, tied for 7th worst in the league at 0.88 PPP with Memphis, Detroit, and Utah.

    For me the key next season will be, if everyone is healthy to start the season, getting out to a fast start. I don’t think we can expect to be the one seed next season, but I see no reason why we can’t put a grip on the 2 seed early in the season and put a few games distance between us and 3 through 8 spots. Get out to a hot start, stack some wins, put a little bit of distance between us and 3 and Thibs will probably be more likely to play the benc more.

    Whatever any of that means, for sure

    The apparition of these faces

    in the crowd;

    Petals on a wet, black bough

    EP

    But, a hot month for a team isn’t any more representative of a team’s baseline talent then it is for a player who gets hot for a month.

    There’s a notable difference between a team that gets hot for 16/82 games and a team that’s hot for 16/16 games before it’s derailed by injuries.

    Are we going at a 14-2 pace the whole way? No, but we should feel pretty good about the team.

    Boston went 4-0 against us this season.

    We played them 5 times and went 1-0 in games OG played, not that end of season victories count for much.

    I think most people believe we could push them and maybe get lucky.

    Boston’s net rating was +11.76, ours was +4.8. Boston was 1st in ORtg, we were 7th. Boston was 3rd in DRtg, we were 10th. Boston went 4-0 against us this season.

    OG played 23 games with us and had a +22 On-Off. Citing the Knicks 82 game stats isn’t all that informative of our talent with OG on board.

    Conversely, Boston was pretty healthy except for KP. Record-wise and by On-Off they were actually slightly better when he didn’t play.

    “Celtics threepeating with a 37 year old Jrue Holiday, 41 year old Al Horford, and KP with 3 more season-ending leg injuries… oh yeah that’s a lock for sure.”

    1) no one said it was a lock, so no snark necessary
    2) one of the brilliant things about the way the Celts essentially swapped out Smart and RWIII for Jrue is that they actually have assets for further improvement. So even if Al Horford ages out of being a full-time rotation player, they have ways to shore up around the rest of the core.
    3) Jrue looks absolutely healthy and very much like he did in his prime. He is in a situation where he does not have to be a top-3 player, maybe not even top-4. If you want to bet against him being essentially as good as he is now in two years, you will probably lose. BTW, if you are going to be snarky, at least get your facts right. Jrue turned 34 yesterday, so to three-peat, he will be 35 until he turns 36 during the NBA finals, not 37.

    “I don’t know why people think we would’ve given Boston a run for their money if we were healthy. I like this team but we’re not real title contenders let alone on Boston’s level. Boston won 64 games, we won 50. Boston’s SRS was 10.75, ours was 4.36. Boston’s net rating was +11.76, ours was +4.8. Boston was 1st in ORtg, we were 7th. Boston was 3rd in DRtg, we were 10th. Boston went 4-0 against us this season.”

    Beyond this, they essentially coasted through the regular season, resting players left and right, and still lapped the NBA field, while the Knicks had to play every game like game 7 of the playoffs just to avoid the play-in.

    “They are actually both highly recommended strategies by advanced statistics, so I’m not ready to say we need to scrap our two-headed monster to do things their way.”

    I’m not saying that we should either. Only that we should have the option of playing different ways. What makes the Celts great is that they actually don’t have to hit 3’s (e.g. like the Harden Rockets) to win. Their tip 6 can all play in the post, and all of Tatum, Brown, White, and Jrue can score in multiple ways. They can also wear teams down with defense. When healthy, KP can protect the rim, but all of the rest of the starting 5 are excellent defenders, whether at the point of attack, on switches in the PnR, or in iso, plus they are good shot blockers for their size. They don’t really have to play 5-out, but it’s their best offense. We don’t even have that option.

    So all I’m saying is that we need to have 5-out with a stretch 5 as an option. It doesn’t have to be our primary offense, but it should be part of the game plan.

    I’d be remiss if I did not say – excellent posting today one and all…

    very much enjoying everyone’s discussions…

    even you, you wild and crazy guy, doogie 😊

    I haven’t done a deep dive on Filipowski, but superficially he seems like a guy to target in the draft.

    He shot 67% from the line, so I’m not entirely sold on his 3pt shooting being real. I’m also not sure Thibs would ever pay him. I’d definitely be interested if he were available though.

    DaRon Holmes II is another stretch big that seems interesting.

    I just checked out a couple of detailed scouting videos on Filipowski and came away thinking that he would be an excellent pick at #24-25, although I doubt that he will fall that far. He’s more of a combo big than a stretch 5, has some defensive issues, and isn’t a particularly athlete, but seems like a heady player who really knows how to pass and can score with both hands in multiple ways. Maybe Thibs and Co. can coach him up.

    Ok so I’m boarding at JFK Delta bound for Tel Aviv and the urinals love a good fart here.

    “I don’t know why people think we would’ve given Boston a run for their money if we were healthy. I like this team but we’re not real title contenders let alone on Boston’s level.

    Probably because when the team was complete and healthy (even without Mitch) they had the best record in the league 12 and 2 I believe were first in OR and second in DR. The beat MN, Denver and PHL at full strength in that run.

    It isn’t rank homerism to believe that team was way better than a 50 win team.

    But hopefully, we’ll get to see next season.

    “excellent posting today one and all…”

    Me, now: “excellent posting today one and all, except for one who keeps posting meaningless drivel for no reason whatsoever…”

    And I don’t mean you, geo. 🙂

    “It isn’t rank homerism to believe that team was way better than a 50 win team.”

    No, but it is to think that they were on or close to the same level as the Celtics. They simply weren’t, whether they won 50 or 58 (and let’s not delude ourselves into thinking that they were actually were a 64-win team.

    But they were actually were a 64-win team!

    OK, no, they weren’t actually weren’t. But they were actually were probably better than a 50-win team over the full season, if more healthy.

    I remember years ago when I first started posting…folks didn’t really know how to “take me”…

    I don’t always make a lot of sense, even though the words may work out in my head before typing them out here…

    it was actually jowles who first responded and kind of understood what I was saying…

    it meant a lot to me…

    sometimes it’s good just to live and let live doogie…

    if someone can come here, and find a place to fit in, even if maybe that someone may be a bit eccentric (fabulous prose though) – so be it…

    appreciate folks for what they are – different and weird…

    We don’t know how good we’d have been if fully healthy. We may never know. It’s unlikely we’d have been better than them, but could we push them to 6 or 7 games? Could we have beaten them with some shooting luck and favorable reffing? There’s good reason to think we had a better shot at it than any other team in the league.

    it’s weird that we could possibly get news on OG and Hartenstein as early as this weekend

    We were 11 in the NBA in ISO% and Boston was actually 4th.

    Most of Brunson’s actions would be classified as hand offs or PNR Ball handler instead of pure ISOs.

    Whatever you call them, it was a one man show throughout the postseason.

    One of the worst things to happen to this franchise was for Allan Houston’s mis-shot 15 footer to take a lucky bounce into the cylinder in ‘99. If it had simply rimmed out, like it intended to, the Knicks would have had no pretension or delusions of splendor. Van Gundy would have been let go and the new GM would have cashed out an aging team and begun a proper rebuild, sparing fans the lolknicksdome of 2000-2020.

    That said, this season (their most successful since) is kind of an opposite moment. Instead of the basketball gods tricking the team into a sense of security, the gods have tricked you all out of it. Fire Thibs! Superstar trade time! Celtics are too good!

    Personally, as an agnostic Knicks follower, I think this team could have made things real interesting vs the Celtics if they had Brunson and OG. Probably not enough to win, but enough to make it entertaining (unlike everybody else). Add in Randle (who I’m frankly skeptical of as a cog in this, but who knows) and a legit finals contender over the next few years doesn’t seem that out of the realm of possibility. The Knicks really did seem like the best team in the playoffs for extended stretches of their two rounds.

    It’s Jrue Holiday, with one “L.”

    Last time i checked, it’s Jrue Holiday with no Ls, but let’s see what the Mavs can come up with for game4. 😉 😛

    Van Gundy would have been let go and the new GM would have cashed out an aging team and begun a proper rebuild, sparing fans the lolknicksdome of 2000-2020.

    You really think the Knicks and a proper rebuild are a possibility? I guess it’s more likely for the world to end than the Knicks will decide to go through a proper rebuild. 😀

    howdy cyber, I hope all is well for you 🙂

    definitely not the globe trotter raven, owen or clarence – but, I’m visiting an area I lived in back in the 90’s (San Jose, CA)…

    it’s a pretty big urban sprawl, but what’s nice is that most of it is low level, not a lot of tall buildings to remind us mere humans of our insignificance in the face of corporate/organizational power and grandeur…

    also, to the west is a bunch of forests/mountains (small) and then the pacific (half moon bay, ca is roughly west)…

    to the east is the bottom portion of san francisco bay…

    the air quality (AQI) here is consistently excellent…

    I think I’m getting closer to doing some traveling again cyber 🙂

    it’s been a while…

    do yourself and the family have any travel plans for the summer?

    LOL no one is saying we were a 64 win team. We’re just saying that while we would not have been on a 14-2 win pace all season, if we were fully healthy we would have won more than 50 games. Probably mid 50’s if we’d had OG all season. This is not some crazy take to make.

    And if the Celtics didn’t have KP and we had a fully healthy team, we would have had a shot. This is also not a crazy take.

    No one who is saying this is saying we’re better than the Celtics and we would have beaten them. Everyone knows we still need to improve, regardless of how healthy we are.

    But The Celtics DID get lucky this year. KP getting hurt didn’t slow them down at all and they had him healthy all regular season, which helped them stack wins. And every team they’ve faced in the playoffs had worse injuries to deal with. That kind of luck will not happen for them again next season (or maybe it will and we’re fucked).

    “But The Celtics DID get lucky this year. KP getting hurt didn’t slow them down at all and they had him healthy all regular season, which helped them stack wins. And every team they’ve faced in the playoffs had worse injuries to deal with. That kind of luck will not happen for them again next season (or maybe it will and we’re fucked).”

    But this is where folks lose me. I don’t know what is meant by “we could have had a shot!” That we had a puncher’s chance against a clearly superior opponent? Sure, I guess.

    But respectfully, I think one has to be an incredible homer to suggest that we were anywhere near as good as them, even if you take KP and Mitch out of the equation. The Celts actually coasted to 64 wins. No other team had more than 57. They utterly dominated the league!

    There is a reason they stayed healthy, it wasn’t just good fortune. Tatum played 35 mpg for 74 games. Brown played 33 mpg for 70 games. Jrue played 33 mpg for 69 games. White played 33 mpg for 73 games. All of those guys could have played more games and more minutes. They all had plenty of rest throughout the season. They were never really taxed!

    Every one of their rotation players has a positive BPM, and the guy bringing up the rear has been their MVP in these playoffs.

    Only 10 teams finished with more than 64 wins since 2000. Their worst record in any month of the season was 11-5 in January. Their longest losing streak was 2 games, and they only did that 4 times.

    howdy cyber, I hope all is well for you 🙂

    All good around here, i hope it’s the same for you too, Geo.

    also, to the west is a bunch of forests/mountains (small) and then the pacific (half moon bay, ca is roughly west)…

    It’s your chance to do what i do… just lace your mountain shoes and go explore the mountains. 😉

    I think I’m getting closer to doing some traveling again cyber 🙂
    it’s been a while…

    Go for it, Geo, and let traveling open your mind for new experiences. 🙂

    do yourself and the family have any travel plans for the summer?

    Not yet. Well, tbf, i’m quite bad at making travel plans, so usually we go where the wind takes us. 😀

    The piling on of Luka by the sports media is a little disingenuous, to say the least

    I get that he is a massive whiner, plays little defense and fouled out of the most important game of his career. But he’s the reason they’re in the freaking NBA Finals, beating the #1 and 3 seeds along the way. And we have no idea how bad his injuries are, the guy gets painkiller injections before every game

    He is a tough guy to root for, but the media’s negative recency bias is kind of ridiculous

    I agree, d-mar. But he doesn’t help his cause by being in sub-optimal condition and whining to a unpalatable degree. And lots of the all-time greats took shit before getting over the hump. He needs to mature.

    Only 10 teams finished with more than 64 wins since 2000.

    Lose – 6
    + 2022 the 64 win Suns lose to the 52 win Mavs
    + 2018 the 65 win Rockets lose to the 58 win Warriors
    + 2016 Warriors win record 73, lose to 57 win Cavs
    + 2009 Cavs lose to 59 win Magic
    + 2007 Mavs win 67 and lose to 42 win Warriors
    + 2006 Pistons win 64, lose to 52 win Heat

    Win – 5
    + 2017 Warriors win 67 and the championship
    + 2015 Warriros win 67 and championship
    + 2013 Heat win 66 and championship
    + 2009 Lakers win 65 and championship
    + 2008 Celtics win 66 and championship

    Adrian Wojnarowski
    @wojespn
    The New York Knicks are planning to hire Maurice Cheeks as an assistant on Tom Thibodeau’s coaching staff, sources tell ESPN. Cheeks — a Hall of Fame guard — has been a three-time head coach in the NBA and most recently on Billy Donovan’s staffs in Chicago and Oklahoma City.

    “DaRon Holmes II is another stretch big that seems interesting.”

    EB, I liked what I saw in his scouting breakdowns as well. I get a bit of pause from his level of competition (see: Obi Toppin) but his bread and butter skills (defense, 3pt shooting) look like they have a good chance of translating. I would probably go with Dunn and Filipowski over him but I guess in Perrin & Co. I trust.

    But respectfully, I think one has to be an incredible homer to suggest that we were anywhere near as good as them, even if you take KP and Mitch out of the equation. The Celts actually coasted to 64 wins. No other team had more than 57. They utterly dominated the league!

    There is a reason they stayed healthy, it wasn’t just good fortune. Tatum played 35 mpg for 74 games. Brown played 33 mpg for 70 games. Jrue played 33 mpg for 69 games. White played 33 mpg for 73 games. All of those guys could have played more games and more minutes. They all had plenty of rest throughout the season. They were never really taxed!

    I just couldn’t disagree more. The Celtics had a wonderful regular season. Once the Knicks swapped out RJ and IQ for OG even with MR out with a broken foot, they were fantastic, going 12-2 beating the top teams in the league MN, Denver and Philly. Their metrics were terrific as far as OR and DR were concerned. During the month of January the minutes distribution was fine with no one playing 36 minutes (OG 35.7, JB 35.5, JR 35.0, IHart 31.8. JHart 29.5 DVD 26.5). Randle had a fluke accident, OG’s chronic elbow flared up needing surgery and the entire starting front line of OG/Randle/MR missed 27 games. None of the crazy minutes happens if Randle doesn’t take that unlucky fall.

    The January Knicks… how good were they…. at least very good. We Do know from that 30 day sample size, that team reasonably healthy would have been a serious threat to anyone.

    Boston played a 37.5 year old big and a 33.5 yr old guard major minutes with a center that has been bubble wrapped in china his entire career with 2 high flyers and nary a soul was injured the entire season. That is a pretty fair run of luck.

    But that is arguable. What I don’t understand is your attitude. People are allowed to reasonably disagree with you. I understand you were a high school principal, but you aren’t talking to hormone laden 15 year olds here. You aren’t the big macher here.

    We might have to make these three draft picks the way things are looking.

    There just aren’t as many “tanking” teams as there used to be, and many of them already have multiple firsts. Brooklyn is the big exception, but I’m going to assume the Rockets will offer them a better package for Mikal.

    If we want to take Johnson off their hands, that’s possible, but 25mil for a backup is a bit rich.

    Maybe we can get an Olynyk/Boucher platter from Toronto for Bojan and picks, but is that worth it? Kyle Kuzma’s still out there. Grant Williams/Cody Martin?

    Not sure it makes sense to cap out for guys like these though.

    The New York Knicks are planning to hire Maurice Cheeks

    finally…a good back up pg

    EB, if your point is that winning 64 games in and of itself does not guarantee a championship, that’s true. But after this year, it will at least give you a 50% probability. Looking deeper, there are some mitigating circumstances, which I noted below, but it’s a fair point.

    Lose – 6
    + 2022 the 64 win Suns lose to the 52 win Mavs: I don’t think a single player on the Suns would start on this Celtics team.
    + 2018 the 65 win Rockets lose to the 58 win Warriors: A gimmicky 7SoL team that played zero D got beat by the dynastic Warriors. This makes a better argument for why the Celts might win it all next year even if they don’t have the best record.

    + 2016 Warriors win record 73, lose to 57 win Cavs: Lost in the last minute of game 7 in the finals to the GOAT in his prime possibly because Draymond got suspended for Game 6.

    + 2009 Cavs lose to 59 win Magic: After LeBron, the Cavs with the most minutes in that series were Mo Williams, Delonte West, Iggy, and Varejao.

    + 2007 Mavs win 67 and lose to 42 win Warriors: Dirk choked, Baron Davis was out of his mind. The 67 wins are head-scratching.

    + 2006 Pistons win 64, lose to 52 win Heat: Dwyane Wade, Shaq, and Pat Riley worked some magic. Pistons were starting to show their age.

    A gimmicky 7SoL team that played zero D got beat by the dynastic Warriors. This makes a better argument for why the Celts might win it all next year even if they don’t have the best record.

    That team had a good defense and took maybe the best team of all time (who otherwise went 12-2 in the post season) to a 7 game, it’s in the discussion for best teams that didn’t win a title.

    Jamal Shead is another guy I love. He’s the 6′ Ryan Dunn. Absolutely smothers players at the PoA and plays well off ball too.

    I don’t know if he’ll be good, but I love him.

    Way’ment Mo Cheeks? Does this mean Bryant will get a HC job? I think adding Cheeks is savvy, but I wonder if there’s room for Ewing on this staff since we can’t have Payne back. This is definitely Thibs’ team..he’s earned it

    + 2007 Mavs win 67 and lose to 42 win Warriors

    Baron Davis went berserk in this one. It shows that a player in an extended unconscious zone can trump a juggernaut. It just doesn’t happen often because regular players don’t go into weeklong unconscious zones often, and when they do it doesn’t usually perfectly coordinate with a playoff series. But Brunson was in one early in this playoffs, which meant anything was really possible.

    Brunson must have really messed up his hand

    https://x.com/KnicksMuse/status/1801345126436114859

    Curious why you say that beyond the obvious that he has surgery. He didn’t mention anything about his hand or not move it or hold it awkwardly.

    He had some sort of a restrictive/protective brace on it. He had surgery on a broken bone in his hand. They didn’t give the particulars. If they used some sort of internal fixation to approximate/compress the fracture standard procedure is a minimum of 6 weeks to heal. Hence the protective gear. They may have to do a second surgery to remove the hardware after the bone is healed and that will add another month to the process.

    My point being there is nothing the least bit surprising for a guy having hand surgery to repair a fracture wearing a brace 3 weeks post surgery.

    Ok doc…you gonna give a tutorial on brain surgery manana or perhaps transition over to rocket science?

    “But that is arguable. What I don’t understand is your attitude. People are allowed to reasonably disagree with you. I understand you were a high school principal, but you aren’t talking to hormone laden 15 year olds here. You aren’t the big macher here.”

    …sez the guy who condescended to his fellow posters so irreverently that he was one of the very few to get banned. I’ll give this all the consideration it is due.

    Ok doc…you gonna give a tutorial on brain surgery manana or perhaps transition over to rocket science?

    If you want a tutorial on brain surgery i’ll have to defer to my son who is a 5th year resident in Neurosurgery. Rocket science, not so much. What’s your point? Other than the obvious, well known fact fact he broke his hand, what makes you think in that video he really messed his hand up? Having an immobilization device on a surgical fracture at 3 weeks is perfectly standard. Just want to argue or express negativity? Fine. Be my guest.

    I believe in the Knick’s post surgical press release, they said he would be re-evaluated in 6-8 weeks.

    …sez the guy who condescended to his fellow posters so irreverently that he was one of the very few to get banned. I’ll give this all the consideration it is due.

    Sweet goalpost shift. Well played.

    That doesn’t make this statement go away… “I think one has to be an incredible homer to suggest that we were anywhere near as good as them.” There may be many here who think in their present form healthy the Knicks are reasonably close to the Celtics. Without being incredible homers. But we will see in the fullness of time.

    “That team had a good defense and took maybe the best team of all time (who otherwise went 12-2 in the post season) to a 7 game, it’s in the discussion for best teams that didn’t win a title.”

    It certainly wouldn’t be in my personal discussion of that topic. I agree that “played zero D” was not an accurate characterization, and I know that they had some pretty good defenders on that team (Capela, CP3, Ariza, PJ). But they also had notoriously bad defender James Harden leading them in minutes (not to mention that he put up a .538 TS% on a 37% usage in that series), and non-defenders like Ryan Anderson and Eric Gordon playing significant roles, and they were coached by Mike D’Antoni, who was hardly known for his defensive acumen. Their pythag was 61-21, compared to 66-16 for the 2024 Celts. They were also completely dependent on the highest variance shot, and when they got cold they had no plan B. I don’t think they were even close to teams like the mid-’90s Knicks or the best Suns, Sonics, Pacers, or Jazz teams of that era, to mention a few.

    “There may be many here who think in their present form healthy the Knicks are reasonably close to the Celtics. Without being incredible homers. But we will see in the fullness of time.”

    I don’t think there is an objective argument beyond a small sample in February to support the “reasonably close” hypothesis. As you know, I am as diehard of a Knicks fan as anyone here, and for as long a most here. I’m not sure that any of our players would crack their starting lineup except for Brunson, and you could argue that he’d be better coming off of their bench. They have five all-star level starters who played with great chemistry, and an all-star level 6th man in Horford.

    Now if by “reasonably close” you mean a couple of feasible moves away, then I would agree with that.

    So… in perusing the set list Pepper got to enjoy the other night I saw they did back-to-back covers of two Derek and the Dominoes songs (I also noticed that for their three nights here at the Greek they didn’t repeat a single song, which is just crazy, but that’s beside the point). Assorted Love Songs is a top-3 album of the 70s for me, and I had sudden FOMO re:Pepper and the Phoenix setlist. But then I went a explorin’ on Spotify and found out that Tedeschi Trucks put on a secret show in 2019 billed only as “Tedeschi Trucks Band With Special Guest Trey Anastasio“, and the show was a cover album — a full recreation of Assorted Love Songs, live. The concert is on Spotify and it is amaaaaazing. Like, beat for beat, only they may have actually improved upon the few weak points of that album. It was so much fun driving around LA listening to it. TTB is the new IT band for me this summer, so glad I stumbled across town to the Greek this week to discover them.

    I don’t think there is an objective argument beyond a small sample in February to support the “reasonably close” hypothesis.

    That is correct because that is the only time the reformulated Knicks were intact (with the absence of MR) and they were extremely impressive by any measure. But it is all speculative. All hail the new champs as they earned it.

    Bit I am looking forward to next season more than any season in 20 years. I hope Leon sits back and makes a few draft picks ( his crew did good work with the late firsts/early seconds they did make) and lets the post season come to him.

    If by objective argument, you mean team results based, then there isn’t enough data since our starters only played together in February. But people are free to judge by the quality of the personnel and their opinion could differ from yours. An optimist might say that OG is as good as Holiday, Randle as good as Tatum, Brunson better than White, the pair of Mitch and Ihart equal to KP/Horford, and DDV worse than Brown. That’s close without any trades or acquisitions.

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