In the first round of the 2022 NBA Playoffs, the Denver Nuggets (who won 48 games while playing with Monte Morris and Austin Rivers as their point guards over Jamal Murray, who missed the whole season, and with Will Barton as their main wing, playing over Michal Porter Jr., who missed almost the entire season), were defeated in the first round by the Golden State Warriors.
The next year, the Nuggets won the NBA title with a healthy Murray and Porter Jr. This year, they’re going to Game 7 in the second round, and may or may not make the NBA Finals again.
I mention the Nuggets for a few reasons. One, teams absolutely are sunk by injuries. It happens all of the time. Two, injuries in one season do not mean that the injuries will continue the next season. It also happens all of the time. Three, knowing that they lost because of injuries gave Nuggets fans a logical comfort. Four, knowing that they lost because of injuries didn’t give Nuggets fans that much comfort overall. Also, for every Denver Nuggets example, there are also cases like the Milwaukee Bucks, who lost Giannis last playoffs…and then lost him in this playoffs, as well.
That is where the Knicks are right now. We know they lost because of injuries. Even a healthy OG, and the Knicks likely win this series in five games. They didn’t have a healthy OG, and they lost in seven games (having OG play in Game 7 was a curious decision, as the dude was clearly still very hurt). That’s both understandable, but also brutal. We can appreciate how much that sucks now, while still looking forward to a healthy Knicks team next season (and we all know Leon likely has one more move up his sleeve with all of those draft picks he’s been stockpiling).
The Eastern Conference might be tougher next season than this one, with Philly having a lot of room to work with, but at the same time, Embiid breaks down all of the time, so who cares? So while this was definitely the year to make a move, the Knicks will be well-situated next year if they only roll this team back with more health (presumably Brunson’s hand will be fine by the start of next season).
Emotionally, I’m very optimistic about next season even while I am very disappointed in this loss.
145 replies on “Well, That Wasn’t Fun – Knicks Are Eliminated by the Pacers 130-109”
Well said, Brian! Repeating myself from the end of the last thread:
I love this team, and they went about as far as we could have reasonably expected, given all the injuries, if not farther. Today sucked, but we were running on empty, and it doesn’t take away from how special this season was.
Onward and upward! Now Leon has the tough challenge of taking the team from very good to great, and deciding whether to run it back (plus draft picks) in hopes of what we do with better health, or if he wants to make one more big move.
Also? I’m so happy I get to follow this team with all of you. Yes, all of you.
This is going to be Leon’s toughest offseason yet. The better you get, the harder it is to get better.
I don’t really see a star trade out there right now and maybe that’s ok. Bringing this gang back would be a nice start followed by adding a Quickley replacement. But don’t forget: every other team should be getting better too.
It’s well known that Thibs is a great regular season coach, but it’s really going to come down to the playoffs with him. I won’t be going crazy over a 50 win season.
More importantly, how was Book of Mormon? I heard they made changes following the racial reckoning of 2020. Is it still funny?
without his 100% shooting we had no chance against the didn’t miss much Pacers
that’s really too bad for you, it’s enjoyable to root for a good team
I really enjoyed it. Had never seen it before, so can’t compare it to the original version. I will say that the African characters for the most part come across as vastly more sensible and human than the Mormon missionaries, and that worked well for the comedy, at least today.
Listening to the post-game quotes from Brunson, Hart and Deuce it’s safe to say Thibs isn’t leaving anytime soon and rightfully so.
Much more than the summer after the We Here season, there’s a very strong argument for bringing the band back together. It’s not just that the team at full health in January looked incredible, and that the roster seems to really complement Brunson well. It’s also that Randle and Mitch, who might be two of our bigger pieces in a proposed star trade, are coming off injuries, and their values will be lower than they should. I’d rather re-sign OG, re-sign iHart, see if Burks will stick around for cheap, at least one draft pick, and make sure the end of the benchers can play if we have another injury cataclysm. Maybe we move Bogey — even if it’s just a continuous soup deal — but unless an absolutely perfect fit comes onto the market, and we can do it without gutting the current roster… I love this team. I think the healthy version of this team is awesome.
Oh, and by hook (draft) or by crook (free agency/trade), we desperately need an actual backup PG, and not a bunch of wings of various heights who can bring the ball up the floor.
Anunoby and Hartenstein should both come with some discounts for different reasons: Anunoby for his health and Hartenstein for playing good but not great in the playoffs, and at times even playing not-so-great. I find it hard to believe somebody is going to give Hartenstein an unmatchable offer after that series. Which is a bit of a silver lining!
Leon needs to do something with those 1RPs this year. Either draft guys with the picks we have at 24 and 25 or trade them (plus other stuff) for a meaningful upgrade. No punting those picks! We’re a win-now team. The era of the paper clip trade should be behind us.
Halliburton’s sweatshirt says it all:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40181266/indiana-pacers-troll-new-york-knicks-game-7-win
Wish we could’ve extended the season, but not disappointed in anyone. Hard for a non-championship team to make you more proud than this one, for me at least. Gave it their absolute all, eliminating a healthy Philly team in the process, before eventually just running out of gas.
We had an incredibly fun season and gained a lot of useful data in the process. Just off the top of my head: Brunson is an inner circle superstar, iHart is a bona fide starting center, OG is everything the metrics say he is, we owe Portland more picks for Hart, Deuce is a real thing, and Donte is a 16 game player.
I’m certainly not antsy to shake things up, though of course we should explore any opportunities that arise. If nothing intriguing pops up, just replace the end-of-bench flotsam and jetsam with draft picks and try to re-sign everyone (including Alejandro Banks).
Sucks we’ll have to wait 5 months, but I for one would be extremely excited to open the season with the January Knicks + Bogey + Burks.
If they bring back the main pieces the team definitely needs a backup PG who can create offense and probably a 3rd big.
If they do “bring the band back” and use the 1RPs on players, I’d agree: need a passable ball-handling PG and the rim-running C of the future. I’m beginning to sour a little on Mitch, who is brittle and can’t play at the end of games because of free throws. Mitch is on a cheap contract so maybe you could move him and Bogey plus a fugazy pick for a rotation piece, then fill the Mitch slot with one of the 2024 1RPs.
Still want to go all in and get another dynamite guard who can create shots for himself though.
Vecenie’s latest mock draft has us winding up with Kolek and DaRon Holmes, which is too good to be true.
They need a stretch big, enough of these rim runners . It would be nice to play 5 out in the Modern NBA.
DaRon Holmes is an interesting pick if available
We absolutely could have used Mitch today because the Pacers were running layup drills at the rim, but yeah, I’m not sure we can trust him. His value is probably at it’s nadir right now though unfortunatley.
I agree totally… but Thibs. Thibs don’t care about no 5 out. If you’re not a defensive oriented center he’s not going to play you, and defensive oriented centers who can also shoot don’t last until the late 1st.
Yeah and coaching like that just limits the ceiling for the team your coaching. I get that he’s very old school, but he needs to adjust.
Let Hali celebrate. I don’t see the Pacers ever winning a championship with him. I can’t think of any teams that don’t play any defense winning championships. The ECFs are probably going to be about as far as he ever gets with Indiana.
And if his leg unfortunately breaks next round I’ll be celebrating on Twitter just to piss off Indiana fans.
This team hasn’t been to the ECF since… even if he doesn’t advance further it’s something this team failed to do this season and hasn’t in forever.
But the Reggie choking sign came in a series the Pacers lost. That’s a weird piece of trolling.
All I want this off-season is durable youth. Miami last year and Indiana this year share a few script points. By round 2, our guys are worn out and hurt. That’s a fact. Luck or not, our championship dreams rest on a different bench philosophy than the one Thibs currently employs. Draft 2 quality players who can get their own shot. Trade Bojan and a future pick for either a youngish point guard or a long deep threat. Thibs should dust off Hubie Brown’s second unit concept. Another broken down 2nd round exit next year will not go down so easily.
Hali wearing the Reggie Miller hoodie after the game and not before is pretty funny. He’s never beating the frontrunner allegations
Have you seen Halis pregame fits? He has absolutely no idea what he’s wearing
Touché.
Thibs played Karl Towns at center.
Karl Towns was the #1 pick in the draft and Thibs didn’t have much of a choice. Somehow I don’t think he’d give as long a leash to the project stretch big who got selected at #25.
Fuck Haliburton and the Pacers. It’s hard to root for the Celtics, but there’s no one on that team I dislike on a personal level like Haliburton. I’m not sure who I dislike more Haliburton or Embiid. I hope the Celtics sweep them.
There you go Strat! Lol
oh yeah, we’re definitely not drafting karl towns 25th, but if you gave Thibs a center who was good at shooting 3s and not a disaster on defense I bet he would play him.
I think Thibs will play a five that shoots 3s. He let iHart run point center from the top of the key.
I think Thibs did a phenomenal job this year. But if they decided to move on from him, I’d be fine with it so long as it was for a better coach, of which there aren’t to many. Carlisle may be one of them.
Once people glom onto a narrative it seems really hard for reality to penetrate their heads.
In other news, I just want to express my appreciation not only (most of) the regulars here, but of returning boxes like Doug and tastycakes and new-ish voices like marechal. Appreciate your humor, your analytics, your Knicks.
If Thibs is alive, he’ll be the coach next year.
I agree Thibs would play a stretch 5… if that guy could play some defense. That is a rare kind of player though.
I have a lot of respect for the Pacers and don’t feel like we lost to some massive underdog. They stepped up their defensive effort and actually outhustled us in three of the last four games. They also shot the lights out at MSG in game 7, and beat us fair and square in Indy.
Even with Hali missing a huge chunk of the season and taking a while to get his mojo back, and even with Siakam not coming aboard until the deadline, and even with Mathurin going down, they won 47 games and did it playing their way.
I guess what I’m saying is that I wouldn’t be so quick to say htey’re just lucky. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they gave the Celts all they can handle.
To do list:
1. Sign or trade for a backup PG
2. There’s not much internal upside left on the team given the trades of Quickley, RJ and Grimes. It’s time to draft some young blood.
3. Add at least one other higher quality player to the bench that’s ready to play over and above the draft and backup PG
Possibilities:
1. Upgrade the C position with someone that can score and space the floor a bit.
2. Upgrade DDV and make DDV the 6th man.
I dunno. Take Siakam, Nesmith, McConnell and Isiah Jackson off the Pacers, and they’d have a hard time beating a whole lot of teams too. They beat two very banged up opponents.
Availability is a skill, and they were pretty much healthy and we weren’t. But give us just OG back and we win that series. Give us both OG and Randle and we’d have dispatched them easily.
It was a great season. I no longer regret passing on Halliburton.
Rooting for Jokic the rest of the way
Tatum and Brown and White and Holiday are all about to get hurt.
And this game 7 doesn’t really matter either, cause either Jokic is going down in game of the finals or Edwards is.
Indy has it all figured out.
The Mavs played a banged up Luka-who played huge minutes all year-44 minutes last night. They played Kyrie 42. OKC played Chet 34 minutes and the good J Will 37 and they lost by 1 point. The lesson from that series is play your elite players huge minutes. The lesson from the Knicks-Pacers series is get a deep team and spread your minutes out and wear out your opponent.
“Availability is a skill, and they were pretty much healthy and we weren’t. But give us just OG back and we win that series. Give us both OG and Randle and we’d have dispatched them easily.”
Or alternatively, they have improved as the playoffs have gone on and actually gave us two really good games at home even before OG got hurt. They also didn’t just beat us, they brutally kicked our asses three out of the last four games. And they did it without ever taxing their starters.
Anyway, let’s see how they show out against Boston. If they go down without a wimper, I’ll concede the point. But their shooting does not seem like a fluke, they’ve improved their defensive effort, and they have some X-factor types.
I’ll be interested to see if they can shoot 70% against the Celtics for sure.
Twitter definitely wants Thibs gone, so I’m going to say keep him. 😂
The Pacers are a good young team, but they aren’t Boston good or as good as a few teams out west. They beat a very injured Knicks team. Still, they are younger than NY. So even if we are actually better than them 100% against 100% now, they could pass us next year if we don’t make some changes to get better.
I don’t follow this stuff as closely as the rest of you, but Jalen Brunson didn’t become Jalen Curry until Randle was out of the way. I’m not convinced Randle would necessarily have helped this playoff run as much as his all-star cache might suggest. And not because “Randle can’t play well in the playoffs” or anything silly like that. Just because Brunson obviously can excel as the creator and I can’t see Randle being a motion offensive hustlebunny, which worked extraordinarily well surrounding Brunson all spring.
Re: Pacers/Celtics
– Siakam won’t be guarded by smaller guys like he was the whole series once OG went down
– The Celtics will alternate Jrue or Derrick White on Hali and neutralize him
– That leaves Nembhard, Nesmith and Turner to pick up the slack. Don’t think they’ll shoot 70% again.
I think the Celtics will dispatch the Pacers easily, 4 or 5 games. With or without Porzingis.
Kevin Harlan referring to PER on the broadcast as if it’s some brand new thing…
Randle would have really helped with the rebounding and bodying Siakim. That would have been plenty. There’s room for Brunson to get 30 and Randle to get an efficient 20-25 a night.
Randle would have given the team another shot creator. Say what you want about the guy, he can create a shot for himself. We didn’t have much of an ability to throw other looks at opponents other than “JB go score.”
I think Randle as 1B would have done just fine. It would have extended our bench as well. I just don’t follow the line of reasoning at all that we somehow didn’t miss a player as productive as Randle.
Finding the perfect number 2 to put next to Brunson is Leon’s biggest task this offseason. Is it Randle or someone else..
The reality with Randle is we aren’t going to know until we get to see 20+ games of him with both Brunson and OG after this run. If they go 17-3 I think we’ll know it works.
The Pacers with a healthy Hali are probably the best offensive team in the league, or maybe a close second to a big Jokic minutes Nuggets.
On the other hand the Celtics have a terrific offesnse too and can play high end defense. That and their experience should be a recipe for an easy Celtics win, but that team gets goofy sometimes in the playoffs and this isn’t the Cavs without Mitchell or Miami without Jimmy.
Either way I’ll enjoy watching one of these teams lose. Let’s go West.
I think it will work perfectly fine in the regular season. I’m just not convinced Randle is a guy that can bring his All- NBA regular season glory to the playoffs.
Now THIS is a Game 7!
Knicks were a .500 team throughout February and March until the 5 game winning streak to end the season. The team was nowhere near better without Randle, granted not having OG for most of those games didn’t help either.
Is Denver serious…
Ant Man (aka Michael Jordan 2.0) having a miserable game and somehow the Wolves are winning.
A lot of questions going into the offseason and those questions have questions. Feels like we still don’t know how good this team is or isn’t.
Either way it’s our last season to make a big move before we’re paying a couple max contracts.
Flood the bench with talent and take the home run swing for a star.
Don’t think either one of these teams are going to score 130 points.. it seems like playoff basketball
Randle’s strengths are scoring, rebounding and playmaking. We got the playmaking and rebounding from Hart. Brunson filled the scoring gap between Hart and Randle most nights.
IMO, if you think of Randle as an all NBA player, you are probably overstating his impact on winning relative to Hart, but that doesn’t mean we didn’t miss him. Doubling Brunson would have been less effective with Randle out there to take over shot creation and scoring if they doubled Brunson. He would have matched up better with a guy like Siakam than Hart did once OG went down. It also would have given up greater bench depth with Hart coming off the bench as an energy player instead of playing 48 minutes a night.
You give Thibs 1 more season and if everyone gets hurt again you fire him
Me: oh nice the Wolves are playing well, it would be awesome to see Conley get a ring
*camera cuts to A-Rod*
Is 0-7 from three good?
1 for 8 is an improvement. 😉
If we had Randle we would have never seen Precious Achiuwa, Playoff Rotation Stalwart. That in itself would have been a major win.
That was some shot by Gobert!
There’s a big difference between your PF grabbing 10 boards and your PF & SF grabbing 10 boards.
Pretty sure Thibs schemes for the C to rotate & contest while the PF gets the rebound. Hart definitely got pushed around underneath the basket a bit too much.
Where the fuck did this Gobert come from?
We don’t need a floor-spacing center half as bad as we need to be able to defend floor-spacing centers. OG would’ve helped with that.
My mind cannot process that Gobert shot. It was like watching Mitch hit an above the break 3 or something.
The Knicks could use a center that could switch things up. Having one rim runner and another guy who can stretch the court would be nice. Outside of Dallas, all these teams left have a guy they can play at the 5 who can space the floor.
Minnesota is destroying them on the boards.
Damn it sounds like Minnesota when the Wolves score
Maybe Minnesota would have a shot to beat Boston, their defense is just ferocious .
With Denver on the Brink, it sucks to say that the Celtics are most likely going to win it all
Minnesota’s defense is so good that they could easily defeat Boston.
Naz Reid has been incredible this quarter
Well, uh, go Wolves, I guess
I am preparing a nice dish of crow for myself…was not a fan of the Gobert trade but it’s sure looking good right now!
We definitely need a bona fide backup PG but one kinda weird thing is Shake Milton was the full-time backup for a 54 win team a year ago
It’s not Knicks-Philly but it’s still shocking
Naz Reid is somebody I would like to have on the Knicks. His defense is much improved.
Thinking wistfully about the bets I laid on Minny being this good last year
People in Denver really only rally hard for the Broncos, so not surprised.
“I’m not convinced Randle would necessarily have helped this playoff run as much as his all-star cache might suggest.”
We can agree to disagree, but I think you’re absolutely nuts. Having a bulldozer for Jalen to dump off to when he’s stymied who can score at will would have been huge. HUGE.
And the thing about Randle is he’s not just a bulldozer.
You’re confusing Randle as our historic 1A, who did the Brunson thing but worse, with the Randle who would be Brunson’s Robin. Surrounded by Donte and OG. It would be awesome.
It’s insane to think we’re better without Randle. Now if the question is do we trade him for another player that would make us even better, that’s a fair question.
But I think it’s kind of mute. I suspect Randle bc of the injury would be harder to trade for good value and fit. So Leon will most likely want to run it back to start the season but that doesn’t mean he won’t make a move before the deadline like he did this year when he got OG or last year when he got Hart. Both of those moves worked out pretty well too so maybe Leon is better with that kind of mid season trade once he really gets a feel for what a particular team needs.
I suspect we can’t break up the Nova trio either. At least not now.
So yeah. Get rested and healthy. Make some picks. Grab a veteran back up PG. Maybe you do a Mitch/Bojan plus a pick for a nice upgrade type move but otherwise run it back, get healthy and draft a couple of players.
I know it was the regular season, but we crushed both these teams back in January when we had all our guys.
Just saying….
Randle also gives you the option to play small. You can go death with Randle at the 5, OG 4, Hart 3, Brunson and Divo.
Raven on point.
And such a bulldozer as Randle is also useful to have when pests like Embiid, Siakam or Turner are fronting as “tough.”
Bottom line: iHart got manhandled today and Hart was not 100% to pull his usual weight under the glass. A healthy Randle and (god willing) Mitch make that balance very different.
On top of that, a healthy Randle and one more shooter could make the Nova boys the best 2nd unit in basketball.
Thibs has no interest in Randle at the 5..
He sees Randle as a one position player [PF]
Wolves holding Denver to 37 points in the second half is really incredible.
X
No way Glen Taylor is selling this team, A-Rod missed his chance.
Never would have imagined Minny would win this game if you told me Ant has 16 points on 24 shots
Even betting sites https://x.com/FanDuel/status/1792322410722832759
We were running plays for Precious Achiuwa cutting to the basket only for him to get stuffed because he was our PF. I kinda think Randle would have helped.
Minny/Dallas is a pick em
Man, the Wolves were in the same spot we were today: down 15 at halftime, down 20 in the 3rd. What a crazy win.
Fuck Dallas, Indiana and Boston
All in on the Wolves. With that defense and depth they can beat anybody.
Helps when you play defense …
Nuggets scored 90, other team scored 130
Welp was only looking forward to watching a Nuggets Celtics Finals. It’s just Yankee games for the next few months plus I guess the Rangers until they’re done. Living in Miami already hearing from bandwagon Panthers fans so hoping Rangers eliminate them.
Would love the Wolves to win it all now to get Don Pablo a ring
Helps a little when you have all your players dude
I’m quietly rooting for the fucking Pacers. I hate the shit out of them, but if they make the Finals it will at least make the math in Brian’s equation work a little better. The 2022 Nuggets lost to the champs that year, you know? Not some chirpy 6 seed that got pasted in the next round.
Just looked back at the game thread from our game @ MIN where we got beaten up pretty good….I remember being very impressed with their defensive length, as were others. I fell into the trap of thinking that Denver was invincible, but Minny is just a very long, nasty team. Naz Reid was awesome in the 4th Q.
Speaking of Minnesota, it was OGs debut at the garden and Randle went off it that game.
Exactly! That second half was something! Minni plays Thibs-style defense years after Thibs unsuccessfully tried to teach them how to do it. Shut down the paint, protect the rim, control the rebounds, close out to the shooters, and so on. It helps to have your guys healthy, of course, and it helps when you have three all stars on your roster.
I am, but that’s not relevant to this conversation. I said I’m not convinced, not that I know. The Knicks beat the Sixers in amazingly entertaining fashion because of Brunson and Hart. Those are the people Randle gets in the way of most. He’s good, but he also turns the ball over a lot, and is highly prone to inconsistency. I know emotions are high, and it’s easy to convince one’s self that what could have been would have been. But it’s also possible the magic of the Sixers series ends differently if you change any part of it.
Malone said the Nuggets were gassed from playing the starters so many minutes late in the season through the playoffs. He should try doing that down 3 starters and key bench players.
And yet, we still found ways to fight and fight.
“Pound for pound, Thibs is the best coach in the league”
~ Rick Carlisle
If we run it back we definitely have some weaknesses. But we have more strengths. I’ll save predictions for October, but so far almost everything has played out how it looked it would, and that has me very very optimistic for next year.
I had Minny and Boston in the Finals, with Boston winning, so I’m still good on my non-Knicks predictions. Really wanted to get to the ECF though. Bummer.
The advantage we have right now is that we are not desperate to make a major move. This is not like two-three years ago. A couple of minor additions and this team can easily win 55-60 games when healthy.
Donnie,
I’m closer to your view on Randle. Losing depth and some shot creation obviously hurt, but losing Randle wasn’t the BIG blow. IMO if OG didn’t get hurt, we’d be in the conference finals right now talking about how to match up with Porzingis when he’s back. OG getting hurt was the death blow. We had no one to replace what he brings to the table.
Again, Hart replaced much of Randle does well, does some things well Randle doesn’t do, OG could slide to PF on defense when we needed a bigger body there, and we replaced Randle’s scoring by committee (mostly upping Brunson’s usage). But once OG went down it was over. It hurt our defense and defensive flexibility badly. Kudos to Burks for his scoring, but the gap between Burks and OG defensively is light years, especially because we needed the size in this matchup against Siakam.
The difference between this year’s Nuggets team and last year’s was they got way more from their bench last year. Some people said that was going to be an issue before the season started. I think that will be their priority this off season.
Donnie is right. You literally have to take out either Donte or Hart to make room for Randle. Add his skill and you lose either shooting or rebounding. The net addition isn’t as big as people are making it out to be.
The Nuggets offense is predicated on Jokic’s genius, ball movement, and 3-pointers. I think their issue is that they have no strength down low and they choke when they come against a defense like Minessota’s. The are 0-12 when they score less than 100 points and half (!) of those games came against the Wolves. We did the same to them at MSG this year.
Hart played 48 minutes in most games and eventually got hurt, and Precious Achiuwa played way more than his recommended number of minutes, which is zero.
Cut Hart’s minutes to like 36 instead of 48, and cut Chewie’s minutes from like 20 to zero, and presto, plenty of minutes for Julius Randle.
Guys we got rolled three times. No fight in game 4, no fight in game 6, hardly any fight today, either.
I responded to you a couple of days ago. Nothing more to say.
I honestly think the concept of “fight” is a little bit overrated. These are professionals. For the most part all of these guys on all of these teams are going all out during the playoffs. The outcomes are like 99% determined by talent and matchups. If you don’t have enough guys healthy, and are thus at a talent disadvantage, that makes it pretty hard to win no matter how much moxie you got.
JK, I’ll argue back. I’m a professional. I have lots of colleagues. I know quite a few who mail it in. I know quite a few who fold when things get hot. I know a fair number who’d never try when it looks tricky.
To get back to basketball, there are people who throw themselves onto the floor for loose balls or into the fray for rebounds, and there are people who make a try for loose balls and rebounds. Over 48 minutes, huge difference.
On the other hand, when most of your team is out from injury and some that are still on the court are hurting badly, you’re pretty much shit out of luck. Diving or not (and our key diver was nowhere near 100%).
On the predictions thread I had Pacers in 7. What do I win?
How does that Bronx cheer go?
At the end of the day, this usually works. Not always! You may “get the most” out of your role players and bench players, or you may not! Most of our ‘role’ players this year have greatly overachieved. I-Hart, Josh Hart, Achiuwa, and so on. Someone has to get credit for this, right?
As for Strat’s silly argument, Hart is not going to be voted All NBA next year, I’m feeling fairly confident. I don’t at all crap on what he does, he’s amazing. But flat out he’s not All NBA, full stop. So stop with the weird false narrative.
Second, Brunson upped his usage and got very much exposed in the playoffs because he was largely it (still did amazing, but it was often agonizing to watch). If you have the dual mashers of Brunson and Randle it’s a machine that will chew other teams to pieces.
And as JK said somewhat tongue-in-cheek, lots of opportunity for Hart to come in and wreck teams.
This! An answer to those who think we are better without Randle. Add OG, and you get January 2024 Knicks.
It’s ridiculous. Everyone fights. Even the much maligned Cavs and their soon-to-be-fired coach were down Mitchell and Allen and LeVert and they had 4th quarter leads against a 65 win Celtics team.
The Wolves were down 15 at HT on the road against the champs and won. We were down 15 at home against the Pacers and cried ”no mas!” as soon as TJ McConnell checked back in.
Dallas fixed themselves a lot faster than I thought possible. I don’t like the way they play, but if they get to the finals a matchup that involves Porzingis and Doncic would have an interesting sub plot. No matter what they say publicly now, those guys did NOT like each other when they were teammates. It was obvious to anyone watching the team play regularly.
We gave 95 combined minutes in a Game 7 to the three-headed monster of Precious Achiuwa, Miles McBride, and Alan Burbs. I don’t care how much fight you have, that’s not gonna work most of the time.
Hubert, this isn’t pro wrestling. Not everything that’s going on in the court is going to be obvious to what we watch on TV.
Maybe not, JK. But we were outworked, outrebounded, and they played better defense.
We went down without a fight.
Nobody expected them to win it for us today by themselves. We are talking support cast here. 😂 Burks played very well, btw.
If you don’t think the Knicks left everything out on the floor tonight, I don’t even know if we’re watching the same sport.
We were at a giant talent disadvantage. Somehow I don’t think diving harder for loose balls is going to make up for the fact that you’re playing against a team with more talent than you.
I don’t think we have MORE fight in us than any of the other teams that made it this far. But I also don’t think we have LESS. We ran out of players and got beat by a healthier team. It’s really not very complicated.
The human eye can be limited when it comes to evaluating effort in pro sports. I remember learning about baseball analytics and being surprised that diving headfirst into first base was slower than running through the bag. Or that players with media reputations for good defense because they dove a lot and got their uniform dirty were often actually worse than the guys who reacted quicker and got to the ball faster and made plays look routine.
Not saying that diving for loose balls isn’t worth it, but that effort can be deceptive.
You’re making a different point, JK, but it’s one I’m interested in. I just never saw the “giant talent disadvantage.”
Their top 3 talent is Halliburton+Siakim+Turner, ours was Brunson+Donte+Hartenstein.
We were dead even on hustlebunnies McConnell & Hart.
Then it’s Nembhart &
Nesmith vs Deuce & Burks. Probably more talent on our side there.
1 thru 6 I think they had a slight edge due to Siakim but it’s pretty close.
You have to go all the way to 7th where it’s Obi c Precious
Biggest differences to me were:
1. Brunson tried to do it all himself, while the Pacers played together more
2. Hartenstein disappeared frequently.
3. The Pacers defensive effort was superior.
And 4. Carisle
Thibs was fine. But Carlisle was excellent.
The Knicks lacked effort on G7 is like the trolliest take ever.
The actual take is that this legendary fight y’all talk about is not a real competitive advantage. It was noticeably absent in games 6 & 7. For evidence, see scoreboard.
What was noticeably absent was a healthy Hart and OG. Come on, man! You’re better than this.