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Knicks Morning News (2024.02.02)


  • Jalen Brunson named All-Star, scores 40 to lift Knicks – ESPN
    [ESPN] – Fri, 02 Feb 2024 04:49:00 GMT
    1. Jalen Brunson named All-Star, scores 40 to lift Knicks
    2. Knicks put on rebounding clinic despite missing Mitchell Robinson, Julius Randle
    3. Scenes from a Precious Hartenstein performance at the Garden
    4. Jalen Brunsons 40 points leads Knicks to 9th straight win as they defeat Tyrese Haliburton, Pacers
    5. Jalen Brunson nearly brought to tears by Knicks fans’ MVP chants after he dropped 40, made first All-Star Game


  • Kram Session: The Best New York Knicks Team in 30 Years? – The Ringer
    [The Ringer] – Thu, 01 Feb 2024 11:30:00 GMT
    1. Kram Session: The Best New York Knicks Team in 30 Years?
    2. Stifling defense just one of the many factors fueling the red-hot Knicks’ stretch
    3. Knicks can become even tougher with offensive improvements
    4. NBA Fact or Fiction: Should we be excited about Knicks basketball?
    5. Move Over Celtics? Knicks Continue to Play Like Top Dogs in East


  • Knicks’ Julius Randle out 2-3 weeks with dislocated shoulder – ESPN
    [ESPN] – Thu, 01 Feb 2024 20:58:00 GMT
    1. Knicks’ Julius Randle out 2-3 weeks with dislocated shoulder
    2. Knicks get massive sigh of relief with latest Julius Randle injury update
    3. 10 potential All-Star injury replacements (Trae Young!) for Joel Embiid and Julius Randle in the East
    4. Knicks’ Julius Randle to be reevaluated in two to three weeks
    5. Julius Randle will have dislocated shoulder evaluated in 2-3 weeks, Knicks announce


  • Miles McBride’s improved shooting on full display in Knicks’ win – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Fri, 02 Feb 2024 06:20:00 GMT

    Miles McBride’s improved shooting on full display in Knicks’ win


  • 2024 NBA All-Star Game reserves: Warriors’ Stephen Curry, Knicks’ Jalen Brunson highlight picks – CBS Sports
    [CBS Sports] – Fri, 02 Feb 2024 01:07:00 GMT

    2024 NBA All-Star Game reserves: Warriors’ Stephen Curry, Knicks’ Jalen Brunson highlight picks


  • Evaluating your Knicks fake trade proposals: Who says no? – The Athletic
    [The Athletic] – Thu, 01 Feb 2024 10:20:17 GMT
    1. Evaluating your Knicks fake trade proposals: Who says no?
    2. Knicks’ Complete 2024 NBA Trade Deadline Preview, Predictions
    3. Latest Knicks rumors, targets as NBA trade deadline approaches
    4. Grade the Trade: Knicks add ball-handler without sacrificing Grimes in mock proposal
    5. Knicks’ dream scenario for 2024 NBA trade deadline after OG Anunoby deal


  • Ex-Knick Obi Toppin gets pleasant reception from Garden faithful – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Fri, 02 Feb 2024 07:51:00 GMT

    Ex-Knick Obi Toppin gets pleasant reception from Garden faithful


  • Knicks interested in young forward, but trade could mean losing Quentin Grimes – Daily Knicks
    [Daily Knicks] – Thu, 01 Feb 2024 17:46:59 GMT

    Knicks interested in young forward, but trade could mean losing Quentin Grimes


  • Should the Knicks Acquire Malcolm Brogdon? – Last Word On Basketball – Last Word On Sports
    [Last Word On Sports] – Thu, 01 Feb 2024 13:09:04 GMT

    Should the Knicks Acquire Malcolm Brogdon? – Last Word On Basketball


  • Bill Simmons call out smashes Tom Thibodeau NBA Coach of the Year odds – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Fri, 02 Feb 2024 01:07:00 GMT

    Bill Simmons call out smashes Tom Thibodeau NBA Coach of the Year odds


  • Shorthanded Lakers stun Celtics, Knicks stretch NBA win streak – CNA
    [CNA] – Fri, 02 Feb 2024 04:15:00 GMT

    Shorthanded Lakers stun Celtics, Knicks stretch NBA win streak


  • Los Angeles Lakers vs. New York Knicks Prediction, Preview, and Odds – 2-3-2024 – Winners and Whiners
    [Winners and Whiners] – Fri, 02 Feb 2024 10:21:33 GMT

    Los Angeles Lakers vs. New York Knicks Prediction, Preview, and Odds – 2-3-2024


  • NBA DFS picks: PrizePicks targets for Pacers-Knicks, 76ers-Jazz – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Thu, 01 Feb 2024 21:30:00 GMT

    NBA DFS picks: PrizePicks targets for Pacers-Knicks, 76ers-Jazz


  • Knicks’ Jalen Brunson named NBA All-Star for first time in long-awaited honor – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Fri, 02 Feb 2024 00:21:00 GMT
    1. Knicks’ Jalen Brunson named NBA All-Star for first time in long-awaited honor
    2. Chet Holmgren, Victor Wembanyama headline NBA All-Star Rising Stars player rosters
    3. Knicks’ Jalen Brunson to participate in three-point contest during NBA All-Star weekend
    4. Knicks Jalen Brunson and Julius Randle named to 2024 All-Star
    5. Report: Knicks’ Jalen Brunson to Join 2024 NBA 3-Point Contest at All-Star Weekend


  • Knicks vs. Pacers prediction: NBA odds, picks, best bets for Thursday – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Thu, 01 Feb 2024 20:30:00 GMT
    1. Knicks vs. Pacers prediction: NBA odds, picks, best bets for Thursday
    2. Game Preview: New York Knicks vs Indiana Pacers, 7:30 PM, February 1
    3. Knicks vs. Pacers odds, line, spread, time: 2024 NBA picks, Feb. 1 predictions, best bets from proven model
    4. Pacers vs Knicks Pick, Prediction Tonight
    5. Pacers vs. Knicks odds, line: Proven NBA model reveals picks for a matchup on Feb. 1, 2024


  • New York Knicks Star Earned A $1.3 Million Bonus – Sports Illustrated
    [Sports Illustrated] – Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:33:06 GMT

    New York Knicks Star Earned A $1.3 Million Bonus

  • 240 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.02.02)”

    What an excellent morning after! Both coaches cited rebounding as a critical aspect of the Knicks’ success in their postgame conference. Thibs specifically singled out Josh Hart because of how his rebounding leads to transition opportunities, especially when he’s on the floor with the bench mob. It’s kind of pointless to nitpick his rotations when the team is playing at this level and winning game after game despite missing the entire starting front line (including its only 3X all-star and 2X all-NBA player) and now a 4th rotation player.

    Closer to having the best record in the NBA than the play-in.

    Realise I am getting a bit over my skis but if I cannot do it the day after the best win of the season and having 2 all-stars named for the 3rd time this century, when exactly can I?

    Gotta love this team and Brunson is starting to get somewhat close to Isiah level.

    Now go get DJM and try to win it all.

    Super fun game last night.

    Who needs a secondary initiator for the bench when you can just repeatedly hit the other team with rocks and sledgehammers until they submit?

    The rebounding last night from Hart, Hartenstein, and Achiuwa – just amazing last night. Between offensive rebounds, free throws, and turnovers, we had something like 18-19 extra shooting possessions – (10 extra FGA, 3 fewer turnovers, 12 more FTA). We are just better at rock fights than the soft Pacers, even with Siakam.

    Hopefully we don’t need to win like this too often, but it’s nice to know we can still do it even without Mitch and Randle. And OG and Grimes.

    Also – I get that Halliburton only played 2/3 of his usual minutes, but we were able to get Indy to play our game and not their game. They’re 2nd in the league in pace this year (per B-R at 102.5) whereas we are 27th in pace (96.9). Last night’s pace – 98.2. We made them submit to our will.

    Howdy guys!
    I’m in Knicks’ Nirvana right now, the last month has been a blast and even if I know it will not last forever I don’t give a fuck and I rejoice in it…

    – This team stole my heart.
    I’m a fan, as a fan I feed from emotions and this team is giving me tons of them.
    I always know they’ll let everything on the floor, I see the way energy flows between the players, their unity, their camaraderie.
    JB’s postgame reaction, I-Hart and Precious screaming together gave me goosebumps.
    I don’t care now about the playoffs, those thoughts are for another time.

    – We’re zigging when everyone’s zagging, winning with defense, grittiness, toughness, physicality (but shooting a lot of threes!).
    It makes me feel like we’re in the 90’s and I’m fucking lovin’ it.

    – Jalen Brunson is a god (and a top-10 player in the league).
    The Little General is the best Knick since Patrick by a mile and, at least for me, the best point guard we had since Clyde (I never dig Marbury, great skills no head, and Sugar Ray is one of my fandom’s biggest “what-if”).
    As long as he’s on the floor we always have a chance, it’s an incredible feeling.

    – While I understand (and often share) the criticism towards him, to me Thibs is doing a regular season masterpiece.
    The way this team is reacting to the injuries is beyond “good coaching job”. There’s a purpose, a sense of brotherhood, a “never quit” attitude I’ve rarely seen.

    – At full strenght, if Good Julius shows up, no one would want to play against us in the playoffs.

    – It’s not surprising that I can’t say enough good things about my man crush Isaiah Hartenstein.
    That I can say good things about Precious Achiuwa however is quite surprising.

    – Speaking of I-Hart, my heart (ops) skipped a beat watching his “bad landing, little painful jump and fall on the chair” moment.
    I know the feeling, the chill down the spine fearing the worst, achilles are tricky and very dangerous, I hope he’s doing treatment right now…

    – When will OG come back? How serious Grimes’ knee is messed up? I want them back asap and I’d like to crush the Lakers…

    – Deuce’s offense is expanding, his defense never wavers, Villanova’s hustlebunnies are useful, Jericho shows no emotions but does his job. Life’s good in Knickland.

    – How bad were the refs? How could you not see the hit on JB’s face? Appalling number of mistakes, what will happen in the playoffs with refs like this?

    – To quote Jowles: “Dolan doesn’t deserve this”.
    But we sure do, at least most of us 😉

    That moment during the post-game with Hahn and Brunson was very fuckin dope.

    Salute Brunson

    Aside from the Brunson greatness and the Center duo rebounding all of the balls, I was so positively impressed by Deuce’s aggressiveness this game. I was a doubter, I thought he just didn’t have it in him to attack the rim or manipulate the offense to get into the paint, but he showed it a little bit last night and the and one specially clearly gave him confidence to try more.

    Of course it’s still baby steps, but if he can maintain this aggression and get better at it, he can be a pretty good player. I hope he’s working on footwork and handling and finishing inside with Brunson every practice.

    Loving that the internet has dubbed Precious “The Big Sneeze.” I think the evidence is mounting that he should remain the starting PF once OG is back. His work defending bigs — offensively very skilled bigs like Siakam and Marcaten — has been really impressive, and it keeps everybody else in the proper position on the floor and in the rotation.

    I also hope one of Taj’s functions right now on the team is to stick with Precious in practice to help him develop.

    The last time we played Indiana we gave up 140 points and lost by double digits. The next day we traded for Precious and a couple of expirings.

    This really does feel like the Linsanity winter, with half the team in street clothes and expectations being wildly surpassed. And would you look at that, the Lakers are in town next.

    I honestly don’t know Brunson has the energy to do this. I have sympathy fatigue today.

    Precious’s touch around the rim gives me PTSD flashbacks of Jared Jeffries.

    The so-called Ewing Effect is when a star player goes down and the team gets better. What’s the term for when all the players go down and the team gets better? The Achiuwa Effect?

    The last time we played Indiana we gave up 140 points and lost by double digits. The next day we traded for Precious and a couple of expirings.

    Hilarious

    Well we’re definitely not better. But you can reasonably call what’s happening now, i.e. where every player on the court throws the kitchen sink at the other team to get a win, the Thibs effect.

    Locked in a bunch of Knicks homer bets (Knicks to make the conference finals, Knicks to make the finals, OG DPOY, JB clutch player of the year) this morning because the vibes are so immaculate.

    I expect all of these to hit, since we’re never going to lose again.

    https://twitter.com/kirkgoldsberry/status/1753427506856661397

    Don’t forget to look at where Dallas is!

    I’m becoming confident that Cleveland v New York is going to be the 2 v 3 matchup in the second round.

    I imagine a lot of Knicks fans would feel great about that but Mitchell Robinson was the MVP of that series and I bet the Cavs would be pretty stoked to have a go at us without him.

    Locked in a bunch of Knicks homer bets

    Right now my bet is on the Clippers to win it all, which I got at 10-1.

    But I am prepared to put a sizable sum on the Knicks to win the title this year if the following two things happen:

    1. Leon swings a trade for a playoff tested backup PG

    2. Randle and Mitch get positive reevaluations

    The Knicks have won 9 in a row and yet have not created any distance between them and the Cavs in the standings.

    That said, the good news at this point is that the Cavs are going through the soft belly of their schedule now, so much so that their strength of schedule is now not far off from NY (-0.27 for the Cavs, -0.49 for the Knicks per B-R). They still have the Spurs, Wizards, Raptors and Nets in their next 5 games. But after that their schedule becomes tough for a few weeks. The Cavs also still need to play more games on the road (4) than home, whereas the Knicks have more home games (3). All in all, I think the Knicks are in a slightly better position schedule wise. That March 3rd Cavs-Knicks match up may turn out to be pretty important for the final seeding.

    My hot take is that the Cavs are possibly the biggest threat to the #2 seed. Philly doesn’t have Embiid for who knows how long, has the hardest schedule of these four teams, and has more games on the road. The Bucks also have a pretty difficult schedule and 4 more road games (plus, the worst underlying stats in the group). They are also coached by Doc Rivers.

    Swap “playoff tested backup PG” for “Dejounte Murray” and I too would lay money on the Knicks to win it all.(*)

    I don’t need Mitch to get a positive reeval. I do need one for Randle but I wouldn’t if they’d hung on to either RJ or Quickley. (But that’s water under the proverbial bridge and I’m not going to belabor it, plus Quickley would have had to go out for DJM in my preferred scenario, most likely.)

    (*) The “top 2” teams in the East are now coached by Joe Mazzulla and Doc Rivers.

    Precious had about a good of a game as it’s possible to have while scoring 13 points on 16 shots.

    The Cavs were excellent last year, they had a bit of bad luck in their results, or maybe some losses caused by inexperience, but I think they were like 2nd in the east in SRS. This year it’s been a bit of the opposite, but they’ve had a lot of injuries. Mitchell and Allen are really good and their role players have all been pretty decent.

    I wonder to what extent playing without Garland has helped the Cavs. He hasn’t been as good this year offensively, and their defense has really stabilized without him.

    Just read that Tyus Jones can be had for two 2nds. That seems like a no-brainer for backup PG.

    My hot take is that the Cavs are possibly the biggest threat to the #2 seed.

    That was actually my preseason take! I had Boston, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, New York, in that order.

    That was the RJ Barrett Knicks, though, who I had pegged at 46 wins.

    These Knicks I think can get the 2 seed, though Cleveland has such a health advantage right now I think they’re probably the favorites. They do have three more games to play than we do, though. And health is fleeting.

    I’m pretty confident we will both finish ahead of the Bucks, though.

    Like ess-dog said, Fischer says Tyus might be gettable for seconds. That’s a no-brainer. Also in his latest:

    -There’s skepticism around the league that the Blazers want to move Brogdon

    -The Hawks are open for business on anyone not named Trae, Jalen, (sigh), or Bogdan

    -The Hornets would like to trade Hayward if possible, and teams are sniffing around Washington and Richards

    -The Lakers are dangling Gabe Vincent in trades, in addition to D’Lo’s well-known availability

    -In a note about the Wolves, he mentions the potential availability of Monte Morris and Bones Hyland

    -Xavier Tillman seems to be on the market

    Yeah, that’s the absolute dream. Boston 1st, Knicks 2nd, Cavs 3rd, Bucks 4th, Sixers 5th, Pacers 6th, Magic 7th and Heat 8th. If this happens I’m all in on the conference finals, and I don’t think the Celtics would be happy to see us there after 2 grueling series against the Heat and whoever comes out of Bucks Sixers.

    Of course the actual dream would be Miami out of the playoffs altogether.

    (1)
    Off topic, I can’t watch the games live (middle of the night here) so I’m watching on replay and going back to see defensive lapses 2 or 3 times. Quite often it’s because of miscommunication, with 2 Knicks defenders needlessly going after the same player and leaving someone open, either in the corner, or cutting to the hoop. (obviously the defense is still great, so it doesn’t miscommunicate that often).

    (2)
    Last night’s amazing game felt like the emotional peak for this team. This cannot possibly continue without all of Mitch, Randle, OG, and Grimes.

    Just read that Tyus Jones can be had for two 2nds. That seems like a no-brainer for backup PG.

    Jones would fit us like a glove except in one way: he’s expiring, and the only way we could trade for him without giving up a core piece is by using Fournier’s contract. Which in turn would make it much harder to do a big trade in the offseason, since we’d no longer have a good mid-sized salary like that to include. (Jeremy Cohen’s continuous soup theory.) Hart and Deuce can’t be traded due to their recent extensions. (Nor would we likely want to trade either right now.) Precious and Evil Donte can’t be traded in combination with any other player. Grimes’ salary is tiny. We’re not trading iHart.

    So you really only make a Fournier for Jones trade if you have decided that this is essentially our team(*), not only for this season, but for the next few. (Or else that some combo of Randle, Mitch, or Hart would now be part of salary matching in a big trade.)

    (*) Give or take draft picks, a mid-level signing, etc.

    Last night’s amazing game felt like the emotional peak for this team. This cannot possibly continue without all of Mitch, Randle, OG, and Grimes.

    I fear this, as well. It looked like they emptied the tank.

    If LeBron and AD are back Saturday and OG is not, I won’t predict for the fourth time in a row a double digit win.

    It will probably be like a 2 pt win instead.

    I’m as optimistic and excited as everyone but don’t think there’s much of a chance at getting the 2 seed. It’s still gonna be a battle for seeds 3 and 4 just to get homecourt in 1st rd. Embiid’s injury status could be the biggest factor.

    Jones would fit us like a glove except in one way: he’s expiring, and the only way we could trade for him without giving up a core piece is by using Fournier’s contract.

    You could square this circle by ty(us)ing it into another trade, e.g. one for Brown.

    NYK gets: Tyus, Brown
    TOR gets: Fournier, Sims, Archie, Grimes
    WAS gets: Evil Donte, draft compensation

    I’m not necessarily saying this is advisable–Sims has earned us not being 100% blasé about giving him up, and I would be…uneasy with a Grimes/Brown swap. Just saying it’s doable to get Tyus and someone who replaces Fournier as continuous soup.

    At this point, considering how good the team has been, I do wonder whether we should start to think about the opportunity costs of not making reasonable moves now because of potential stars later. This team is so good that it’s not really obvious how you upgrade it, considering that the starts likely to be available are flawed in some ways. Maybe there’s a case to be made to invest in the team now with less flashy updates. They could for example resign Tyus in the offseason, even if it takes him out as a trade possibility.

    Also, with the Lakers coming to town, should we talk about whether Lebron and/or AD will become available at the trade deadline?

    Primarily through the “Brunson Delta,” (*) Leon has built a team close to being a contender. Kudos to him. His every thought at this trade deadline should be getting them in the best shape possible to try to win it this year.

    If he’s in “we have to keep all our draft picks to trade for an elite superstar in 2027,” mode over the next couple weeks, he needs to flip the switch.

    (*) The difference between the value the association marketplace put on him when he was a free agent, and what he actually is.

    I think the big question right now is do we go all in on this season (using some draft capital, Fournier’s expiring and players like Grimes to secure competent backups like Brogdon) or do we keep our powder dry for the big kahuna down the road?

    I’m starting to lean towards the former for 2 reasons – one, the East is pretty wide open with the exception of Boston, so a conference finals is acheivable, and two, I just don’t see who that star is that’s gonna shake loose this summer (and I won’t no part of Embiid at this point)

    Thoughts?

    I did notice in Fischer’s article that we were not mentioned. at all.
    My guess is that we are sitting tight unless something literally perfect comes along. The vibes are too good right now.

    I also wonder whether Precious is playing Hartenstein out of town…

    We should absolutely be open to an “all-in” move if one is on the table, but I don’t see it. DJM may well be a downgrade–we’re supposed to give shots from Brunson (.598 TS%) and DDV (.613 TS%) to that guy (career high .568 TS%)? Is he going to bring our defense from “1st since the trade” to “1st since the trade?”

    We will of course come down from the various post-trade highs, but if we’re going “all-in,” the empirical case that we actually, you know, improve, should be a lot better than this.

    So I wouldn’t be precious about trading firsts, Grimes, etc. but the name of the game for this specific deadline looks to be trying to get the highest impact for the lowest cost.

    I think we may be underestimating the probability of Mitch being included in a trade either now or later.

    1. I-Hart has demonstrated he can start and be productive in starter minutes.

    2. I-Hart is the superior offensive player and may be better all around.

    3. Precious is proving to be a viable backup PF/C.

    4. Mitch is injury prone.

    5. Mitch can’t make FTs and that could become enough of a liability to keep him off the court at times in the playoffs.

    6. It’s going to be expensive to keep I-Hart. It might be better to allocate some of our cap to another position by trading Mitch and then paying I-Hart.

    I’m not full out advocating it. It would depend who we got back. We also might not get as much value back now while he’s injured as opposed to later when he’s back on the court. But I think there’s enough smoke here to think there will eventually be a visible fire.

    DJM may well be a downgrade–

    Time for a moratorium on nonsense. It’s winning time.

    I think the all in decision really depends a bit on what the organization thinks the real prognosis is on Randle.

    If for example it’s that he’s 80% coming back within 3-6 weeks, then all in moves can be 2024 specific related to the contracts. If it’s 50% or lower that the injury is likely to effect his availability and performance in 2024 the all in move would have to have real value beyond this season.

    The LBJ murmurs have begun according to NY sports talk radio this morning. Any takers on that being the all in move? lol.

    I agree that iHart may be playing Mitch’s way out of town. Which would be awkward, given that they have become Best Friends Forever. But it’s hard to imagine both of them being on next year’s squad, whether iHart signs elsewhere, or he re-signs (for less than he could make if a cap space team wants him) and then Mitch is part of a star trade package.

    Rich Paul felt the need to publicly dispel the LBJ rumors. I think he’d accept a trade if it was the right one. No idea how that possibly involves the Knicks. Naturally, I’d say yes if it made sense.

    I’m still on my offer the farm for Mikal stance. Make the Nets an offer they can’t refuse and force them to start the rebuild that’s inevitable.

    Mikal, IMO, would be available for a Godfather offer. Whether that would include “to the Knicks” is clearly an open question.

    I want no part of Lebron. The vibes are too good and he doesn’t fit the ethos. AD though would be intriguing.

    DJM is not the move. I don’t want him taking time away from DJM. Even Grimes is a more useful fit. There are other backup PG options that fit better and cost less.

    I don’t think there’s an all-in trade to be made. But I think they should consider the possibility of doing something good even if it means we need to interrupt the eternal soup or whatever they call the rolling of contracts, at least momentarily (Tyus being an example of that).

    Time for a moratorium on nonsense. It’s winning time.

    Oh well if the guy who gave the OG Anunoby trade “two thumbs down” disagrees with me I better reevaluate!

    Oh well if the guy who gave the OG Anunoby trade “two thumbs down” disagrees with me I better reevaluate!

    They overpaid in that trade.

    Vibes don’t win LO’Bs. Players do.

    Is Lil Penny related to DJM? Never seen someone so obsessed with a player with one good season in a 7-year career.

    I’m not “obsessed” with anyone. He’s on the market, likely available at a discount, had an excellent playoff series against Boston last year, is an excellent player, and would significantly improve the roster at a quality price.

    DJM has exactly one season in his career with a BPM higher than 1.0 (or, if you prefer, a WS/48 higher than 0.09).

    I pay zero attention to BPM. I’ve seen nothing in it to commend it and a lot in it to not commend it. It doesn’t add anything to watching players and evaluating and properly weighing regular statistics and metrics.

    I fear this, as well. It looked like they emptied the tank.

    If LeBron and AD are back Saturday and OG is not, I won’t predict for the fourth time in a row a double digit win.

    It will probably be like a 2 pt win instead.

    Nah, if we shoot 35% from 3 instead of 21% then it’s a 19pt win last night.

    Being emotionally exhausted we win by 12.

    Vibes don’t win LO’Bs. Players do.

    I pay zero attention to BPM. I’ve seen nothing in it to commend it and a lot in it to not commend it. It doesn’t add anything to watching players and evaluating and properly weighing regular statistics and metrics.

    Got it. So you go by…. vibes?

    I’m as optimistic and excited as everyone

    Are you?

    but don’t think there’s much of a chance at getting the 2 seed.

    Seems like you’re not 😉

    I’m one of the bigger advocates of a DJM trade here and I still have a hard time calling him an “excellent” player. He gives you some shot creation and good size, and I think he’d probably play pretty well here on defense. I’m in favor of acquiring him if the price is reasonable.

    It’s beyond silly though to declare that he’s a “playoffs” player based on five games he played in one series that his team lost. Small sample sizes are a real thing, and it’s probably not the best idea to completely disregard a 150 game sample in which DJM has been decidedly mediocre and declare him an “excellent” player based on five playoff games. At some point it’s just a fetishizing “ruff rydah” kind of thing. Anybody can get hot over a short series, in fact I believe that’s the reason for E’s strange Cam Reddish fetish. Even a scrub like Cam can get hot in a short series, it doesn’t necessarily mean that player has magic Playoff Greatness as an inherent attribute.

    I honestly couldn’t think of a worse all-in move than Dejounte Murray.

    You want to bench the best shooter on the team and take the ball out of Jalen Brunson’s hands? Madness.

    Crazy idea just suggested by a co-worker: CP3. The only way it works under the cap is if we trade them Fournier and Mitch (plus some kind of pick compensation, even small) for Paul and one of their smaller salaries (like Cory Joseph). That sounds insane, but Paul’s contract can function as continuous soup, at least, and if we’re really going for it this year, while also trying to keep options open…

    LBJ would be a hard “NO” for me even if it was some wild trade that brought Quickley back too. 😉

    Crazy idea just suggested by a co-worker: CP3.

    I don’t think I’d do it, but not crazy.

    Guy who was insisting yesterday that this team was going nowhere now demands we go all in . . Okay e

    There really isn’t an all in trade available at the deadline, so I would just shore up the backup PG weakness. Alan made a great point about Tyus Jones’ contract. It’s too great a risk. If he doesn’t resign our future flexibility is lost.

    As for Noble’s suggestion, just cut Jones out and get Brown directly. I have come around to him as the backup PG. And more importantly, Brown can do something we’re going to desperately need come playoff time: take minutes away from our achilles heel, which is Josh Hart.

    I’m sorry but this can’t be a divisive issue any more. You must have seen it last night: Josh Hart is awful.

    I love the effort, but come on. The Pacers doubled off him every single time in the second half. He had zero field goals in 38 minutes and most of that time he wasn’t even being guarded!

    This is worse than RJ Barrett ever was.

    I’m a no on CP3 too, don’t give up on Mitch. If we have a chance to see an OG-Mitch pairing, we can’t let it go.

    Bench minutes: Deuce-Grimes-Hart-OG-Mitch. Imagine that.

    “Rolling with this group” is a tough choice because we have no idea if/when Randle and Mitch will come back.

    I’m assuming both come back at some point this season, but it’s not a given… or that either will immediately be at 100%.

    If they do return, it makes sense to go all-in on another complementary player or two, but doing it safely (not burning 1sts) is probably the way to go.

    You want to bench the best shooter on the team and take the ball out of Jalen Brunson’s hands? Madness.

    DDV wouldn’t be “benched.” He’d still be a valued member of the rotation, and DJM serves as necessary insurance for another DDV playoff flop.(*)

    Ball’s still in JB’s hands. JB’s a normal ball-heavy point. Trae’s a lunatic ball-heavy point.

    (*) And, to a degree, another Josh Hart playoff flop. I know no one wants to hear it, and I fully understand why, but the truth is that the risk of potential playoff flops mandates risk mitigation.

    forget adding anyone else – let’s just roll with seven players in the rotation for the rest of the season…

    it’ll work just fine…

    (*) And, to a degree, another Josh Hart playoff flop. I know no one wants to hear it, and I fully understand why, but the truth is that the risk of potential playoff flops mandates risk mitigation.

    We fixed this by dumping RJ

    Dejounte Murray, however, is immune to a potential “playoff flop” because he has proven that he is a Playoff Ruff Rydah based on a five game sample.

    I thought we were supposed to suck after the OG Anunoby trade, which E graded as “two thumbs down” and which was followed by a 15-2 run that has even E himself declaring us just scant Dejounte Murray trade from true contender status.

    Maybe E’s opinion can be safely disregarded here as he often doesn’t know what the fuck he is talking about.

    I thought we were supposed to suck after the OG Anunoby trade, which E graded as “two thumbs down” and which was followed by a 15-2 run that has even E himself declaring us just scant Dejounte Murray trade from true contender status.

    The best thing to do for those who really want to obsess over what I say and to do it honestly is to look back in the archives to a few days before they even made the OG trade and see what I said about a potential JB/DJM/Julius/OG/Center combination.(*)

    Consult the house archivist and I’m sure he’d be happy to do it.

    (*) There was way more to it, but rest assured it was pretty much the opposite of sucking.

    Dejounte Murray, however, is immune to a potential “playoff flop” because he has proven that he is a Playoff Ruff Rydah based on a five game sample.

    Six games. Pretty much the opposite of a playoff flop.

    I remain in the Josh Hart camp the same way I remained in the Grimes camp when he was in a coma and virtually everyone was abandoning ship on him. Josh Hart is playing hurt and his confidence is obviously suffering, but he’s doing so many non boxscore and non scoring things well, we can be patient with his knee and shot. He didn’t suddenly become a bad shooter this year anymore than he suddenly became a marksman last year.

    He didn’t suddenly become a bad shooter this year anymore that he suddenly became a marksman last year.

    Josh Hart has always been a bad shooter.

    here you go Alan…Question of the Day:

    What is a Do-Loop Construct?

    i will give you a hint:
    The do loop construct enables a statement, or a series of statements, to be carried out iteratively, while a given condition is true.

    i will now name the condition as: the sun rising in the east, and then setting in the west…

    Dejounte played in five of the six games. The Hawks won the game in which he didn’t play.

    Your review of the OG trade was “two thumbs down.” Those words literally. Nice try though.

    Your review of the OG trade was “two thumbs down.”

    They overpaid in that trade, thus two thumbs down. Guess what? They still overpaid.

    The archives don’t lie. Have TNFH look it up for you. I’m sure he’d be happy to do it.

    Josh Hart has always been a bad shooter.

    He’s a lifetime 34.6% 3 point shooter and 30.1% this year.

    His a lifetime 57.3% shooter from 2 (closer to 60% in recent years) and 52.7% this year.

    He’s shooting below par from 3 (probably mostly noise) and not getting to the basket as well (bum knee).

    They overpaid in that trade, thus two thumbs down. Guess what? They still overpaid.

    At this point I’d have made the deal just for Precious so I’d never have to watch RJ again

    They overpaid in that trade, thus two thumbs down. Guess what? They still overpaid.

    I could see thinking they overpaid when the deal was made, but OG has been an awesome fit and Precious is turning out to be more than just a throw in.

    One of the reasons we’re so much better is that we got rid of a guy who sucked.

    But yeah, sure. Overpay. Right.

    I’m not going to dig up something you claim to have said because you’re embarrassed that, yet again, a rare case of you taking something resembling a definitive stand has blown up in your face. You are more than welcome to do it yourself.

    No one is “obsessed” with anything you say. It’s just funny that the guy who holds himself up as smarter than everyone else has an approximately zero percent success rate when it comes to actual predictions. People would give you less flack about it if it you were less obnoxious–no one has a perfect track record, no one is even close–but the “awful track record, smug as hell” combo is a bit much even for the most patient among us.

    While OG is great, I’m convinced that most of the value of the trade was getting all those terrible RJ Barret minutes and shots out of the rotation, which helps explain why we’ve still surprisingly good even after losing Randle + OG to injury.

    OG has put up 2.5 BPM for us while RJ put up -2.1. If we had traded a 0 BPM for a 4.6 BPM guy (i.e. roughly as good as Brunson) that would be basically adding a borderline superstar.

    OG is as half as good as a superstar, and RJ was so bad that he was worth half a superstar in just negative value. Combine the two effects and it’s like we traded an average guy for Jayson Tatum or similar.

    I’d like Murray for the right price, but we’re not getting him at that price.

    Murray is a quoestionable fit, at best, with Randle and Brunson in the halfcourt. For his career, Dejounte is a Josh Hart level shooter. We saw how it went last year with too many non-shooters on the roster.

    With how Donte has played this year, we’re better off keeping him in the starting lineup.

    DJM is a risky piece, maybe he’s the key or maybe he’s exactly who he’s been on Atlanta. There’s a good chance his lone great season was him stat stuffing on a crap team.

    I’m not going to dig up something you claim to have said because you’re embarrassed that, yet again, a rare case of you taking something resembling a definitive stand has blown up in your face.

    Nothing has “blown up” in anyone’s face and you can rest comfortably assured that I’m not remotely “embarrassed.”

    Not only am I not “embarrassed,” I’ll reiterate it. They overpaid for OG Anunoby — a player who the archives will clearly show I wanted on this team.

    The archives are clear as to who I wanted to roll with and they even include the closest I’ll likely come to a “prediction.” It’s obvious why they won’t be posted.

    OG is as half as good as a superstar, and RJ was so bad that he was worth half a superstar in just negative value. Combine the two effects and it’s like we traded an average guy for Jayson Tatum or similar.

    IQ had a 2.3 BPM for us. We effectively just salary dumped RJ instead of benching him (plus we improved our roster construction).

    Of course, OG is also way the hell more valuable defensively than BPM thinks.

    OG is as half as good as a superstar, and RJ was so bad that he was worth half a superstar in just negative value. Combine the two effects and it’s like we traded an average guy for Jayson Tatum or similar.

    Yep.

    It was like going from Elfrid Payton to Jalen Brunson (though Brunson has continued to blossom making it even larger).

    It’s obvious why they won’t be posted.

    Yeah, it is in fact obvious that I ain’t doing extra homework to exculpate what might be your most embarrassing take in a line of takes that includes “Frank Ntikina is good,” “Cam Reddish is good,” “the 2022-2023 Knicks won’t win a playoff series,” and “Isaiah Hartenstein is an advanced stats mirage.” You are more than welcome to dig up whatever you want.

    Sticking to “two thumbs down” on the OG trade…I mean, Private Teruo Nakamura thinks you should take the L and move on.

    Crazy idea just suggested by a co-worker: CP3. The only way it works under the cap is if we trade them Fournier and Mitch (plus some kind of pick compensation, even small) for Paul and one of their smaller salaries (like Cory Joseph). That sounds insane, but Paul’s contract can function as continuous soup, at least, and if we’re really going for it this year, while also trying to keep options open…

    I had thought of that but the Warriors reportedly want to use Paul’s salary in a trade the same way we want to use Fournier’s, i.e. for a bigger fish.

    Yeah, it is in fact obvious that I ain’t doing extra homework to exculpate what might be your most embarrassing take in a line of takes that includes “Frank Ntikina is good,” “Cam Reddish is good,” “the 2022-2023 Knicks won’t win a playoff series,” and “Isaiah Hartenstein is an advanced stats mirage.” You are more than welcome to dig up whatever you want.

    Like I said — it’s obvious why they won’t be posted. You keep doing you.

    One of Tyus or Deuce would need to guard a SG, which is less than ideal.

    Let’s make the Grimes-Eason deal happen (it’s not happening) and then grab DLo for free. Deuce, (hide on) DLo, Hart, Eason, Achiuwa.

    Bruce Brown is the boring, overpay solution to our problems. He does PG-y things and defends PF-y things. He’s the one-stop shop.

    I’m not going to continue to discuss Hart on the same day as E but I genuinely hope — whether people want to admit it publicly or not — that there is growing awareness of the problem.

    The rebounds are great, and his effort is part of our identity. But he’s a wing who doesn’t need to be guarded and the shelf life for such a player does not extend deep into the playoffs.

    That’s all well and good that you wanted to acquire OG Anunoby, for free I suppose.

    But it clearly was not an overpay. It was Immanuel Quickley and a 2RP for Anunoby, with a side dish of the Raptors taking a bad player with a bad contract off our hands. The results since the trade kind of speak for themselves.

    If that was an overpay, sign me up for more overpays.

    I honestly kinda like the CP3 idea, but a trade is not the way we want to get him. There’s no way a real contender is going to have enough to trade for his contract, so the best thing to do is see if the Warriors dump him on some bad team with cap space and he gets bought out.

    I’m a hard no on getting him by using assets, but if he ever gets bought out then sure, I’m in.

    While OG is great, I’m convinced that most of the value of the trade was getting all those terrible RJ Barret minutes and shots out of the rotation,

    you’re watching the games pags, you don’t think OG is like a top 20 player?

    his offense is developing, he seems to be one of the very best defenders in the league though…

    he’s like an octopus out there…

    i doubted OG until about the 4th game or so as a knick…he’s spectacular on the defensive end, even more impactful than mitch…who is an elite defender…

    OG really jams up the other team’s offense…not the whole game through, but for significant stretches…

    That’s all well and good that you wanted to acquire OG Anunoby, for free I suppose.

    I don’t like my team overpaying for assets in a hypercompetitive marketplace, even for desirable assets. I mean I like my apartment a lot and am very happy I have it, but that still doesn’t mean I would have wanted to pay like 30% more for it.

    But it clearly was not an overpay.

    It is to everyone who isn’t an RJ truther. And more importantly, it is in the sense that it was significantly more than they would have had to pay if they actually negotiated properly.

    Had they not overpaid, they’d have more assets for this trade deadline, one on which they’re on the cusp of contention. So the case for not overpaying is pretty obvious.

    At this point it’s fairly obvious we need some scoring help both short term and probably long term. We can get away with Randle being out IF we move the ball really well and someone steps up, but we saw last night that sometimes the ball will not move as well and DDV is not going to keep lighting things up every night. We aren’t going to get 40 from Brunson and 24 OREBs to make up for all the bricks we throw up either. OG coming back will help. It will help more if he’s able to up his usage a bit and remain as efficient. But ideally we need a scoring PG to replace Quickley’s role that can help both the bench and the starters when needed. Nothing has changed.

    i’m sticking by no one over 30, minus uncle Taj…

    let jalen have the locker room…more so than anything – do not mess with the chemistry…

    continuity (which is really tough with so many injuries) and chemistry…

    most sports folks seem a bit superstitious…don’t mess with anything right now…

    go ahead and play donte, josh and precious 40 minutes a night for a few weeks…hopefully they’ll endure…

    we shall see if a week of treatment has the inflammation in OG’s elbow going down…

    wow, still can’t beleive we won a game playing just seven in february, against the pacers no less…crazy…

    I’m not going to continue to discuss Hart on the same day as E but I genuinely hope — whether people want to admit it publicly or not — that there is growing awareness of the problem.

    The rebounds are great, and his effort is part of our identity. But he’s a wing who doesn’t need to be guarded and the shelf life for such a player does not extend deep into the playoffs.

    I’m genuinely worried about Hart, but the offense will look better if he isn’t playing next to Achiuwa and a C. Still, Thibs needs to be ready to bench him in the playoffs. For now, while winning, I’m okay trying to get him going again.

    No defense can stop Born To Play anyway

    PS. Super jealous you went last night. If you haven’t heard this iconic Breen call yet… https://twitter.com/KnicksMemes/status/1753254423579820356?s=20&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

    “RJ Truther.” You’re embarrassing yourself more than usual today.

    This team is obviously so much better without RJ Barrett stinking up the court every night that djphan has pretty much quit the site. Losing RJ Barrett and giving his minutes to guys that can play competent basketball is one of the great addition by subtraction stories of all time.

    Or I guess maybe it’s just a coincidence that the team took off like a rocket when RJ’s no-defense playing, shot-missing ass was shipped out, and his minutes started getting allocated to vastly superior players. Yeah, probably a coincidence.

    IQ had a 2.3 BPM for us. We effectively just salary dumped RJ instead of benching him (plus we improved our roster construction).

    I see IQ as the price of them willing to take on the millstone that is RJ. His positive value cancels out RJ’s negative value.

    We traded a quarter and a negative quarter for a quarter and a Precious Achiuwa. I don’t understand E’s take that this is an overpay, but that seems to be based on the idea that RJ was secretly good.

    I’m not going to continue to discuss Hart on the same day as E but I genuinely hope — whether people want to admit it publicly or not — that there is growing awareness of the problem.

    The rebounds are great, and his effort is part of our identity. But he’s a wing who doesn’t need to be guarded and the shelf life for such a player does not extend deep into the playoffs.

    No one is going to argue with what you are saying about what is happening now.

    I am saying it’s mostly random noise and injury related. You have to just wait these things out. We know exactly what his skill level is. It’s well above what he’s been doing so far this year. He’s not some old dude that’s done. He’s a young guy with a bum knee and some temporary confidence issues because the 3 hasn’t been dropping lately. He’ll be fine in his role.

    Or I guess maybe it’s just a coincidence that the team took off like a rocket when RJ’s no-defense playing, shot-missing ass was shipped out, and his minutes started getting allocated to vastly superior players. Yeah, probably a coincidence.

    We get it, JK — you hate the guy. You’re entitled to.

    They’ve won every game since Julius Randle got hurt, therefore Julius Randle sucks. Got it. Now that I’ve got basketball figured out, I can both die in peace and get back to work.

    you’re watching the games pags, you don’t think OG is like a top 20 player?

    I greatly appreciate OG but top 20 player is a very high bar. There are more than 20 All-Stars. Guys like Jimmy Butler and Sabonis (averaging 20/13/8 on elite TS% on a winning team!) didn’t even make All-Star and it’s insane to consider OG as good as them.

    I think OG’s about the 35th or 40th best player, which is still immensely valuable.

    I don’t understand E’s take that this is an overpay,

    They gave up more than they needed to give up to get the asset. That’s how an “overpay” is measured. There are no other factors. If a house is worth a million dollars to you, you don’t pay a million dollars if the seller will take $500,000. You pay $500,000 and take the other 500 and buy other assets. (*) (See, e.g., the trade deadline.)

    There are no other factors to the concept.

    (*) And if you do pay a million dollars, it’s no defense to a charge that you overpaid that “Well, it’s worth a million dollars to me!”

    We traded a quarter and a negative quarter for a quarter

    Yeah, but we’d also be plus 25¢ on the court if we benched RJ (OG is definitely better though)

    don’t understand E’s take that this is an overpay,

    They gave up more than they needed to give up to get the asset. That’s how an “overpay” is measured.

    And you know this how? Please enlighten us

    I don’t hate him, in fact I don’t think about him much and wish him well in Toronto. Nice enough kid.

    He’s just not very good, and we have gotten drastically better since he was traded away. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that getting rid of a guy with a 92 TS+ and 89 eFG+, while accumulating less than 1 stock per game and ranking in the toilet bowl percentile of deflections is probably not doing a whole hell of a lot to help you win.

    Moxie though. Never forget moxie.

    They’ve won every game since Julius Randle got hurt, therefore Julius Randle sucks. Got it.

    Oh come on, E. You’re smart enough to know a 17-game sample (you know, more than 20% of a season) carries much more weight than a 3-game sample.

    I knew you were a lawyer but that one makes me wonder if you’re Alina Habba.

    “And you know this how? Please enlighten us”

    I’m not going to get into yet another argument about players and assets with a bunch of dudes who’ve had a Viagra IV going about one particular player for like four years straight now. Probably a pretty pointless endeavor.

    They gave up more than they needed to give up to get the asset. That’s how an “overpay” is measured. There are no other factors. If a house is worth a million dollars to you, you don’t pay a million dollars if the seller will take $500,000. You pay $500,000 and take the other 500 and buy other assets. (*) (See, e.g., the trade deadline.)

    It’s easier to know when houses are overpaid for because asking prices are generally publicly known. On the other hand, your source for the exact minimum value TOR would have needed to part with OG: “Trust me, bro!”

    By EPM, OG is currently tied for 39th.

    You could maybe argue that he’s more important to a competitive team than a lot of guys ahead of him who aren’t 1A options. For example, Denver wouldn’t trade Aaron Gordon for a lot of people on that list.

    He’s just not very good, and we have gotten drastically better since he was traded away.

    And they had a nine game winning streak after acquiring Josh Hart last year and yadda yadda yadda.

    djphan has pretty much quit the site

    We seem to have lost both Brother Phan and Brother Raven and I feel kind of sad about that as I really appreciated them both. If you’re lurking, fellas, do come back. Aren’t you having so much fun right now? We’re 15-2! Who do you share the joy with, your Facebook friends? Come on.

    It’s easier to know when houses are overpaid for because asking prices are generally publicly known.

    Paying more than ask isn’t necessarily an overpay. Happens all the time.

    We seem to have lost both Brother Phan

    Yeah, I mean gosh — how could djphan have not wanted to stick around? Who wouldn’t want to have their good faith words and opinions twisted all the time into something they aren’t, be called a bunch of personal names, and otherwise be made the butt of ridicule and ill-humor?

    Paying more than ask isn’t necessarily an overpay. Happens all the time.

    Just because you still love your beanie babies doesn’t mean anyone else does

    The issue with RJ was never his “current” production. Everyone could see he was/is a net negative player. The issue was always what kind of player he’d be at 27-28 when he’s peaking. That kind of projection is always a moving target because the clock is ticking and the player is developing at “whatever” rate as time passes.

    The enthusiasm was waning as the clock was ticking.

    The fit/spacing with Randle/Brunson/C was suspect anyway.

    Our timeline started to accelerate because of the other non draft moves we made.

    But none of that means he won’t be a good player in a few years.

    The issue with RJ was never his “current” production.

    Nor is asset value dependent entirely or even predominantly on current production, as anyone who invests in the stock or bond market will tell you. That goes double for someone whose current production is limited by the context and environment in which he’s producing.

    I see IQ as the price of them willing to take on the millstone that is RJ. His positive value cancels out RJ’s negative value.

    You guys gotta take your personal feelings out of the equation. You know what teams do with millstones? Look at Evan Fournier. If you’re starting and playing 33.6 mpg, your team values you.

    RJ and IQ for OG and Precious was a fair trade. I think the Detroit pick was probably unnecessary but Masai is a skillful negotiator and the result has been so good that I no longer care that maybe we might have overpaid by 5 cents.

    Some people just can’t take it when they are wrong about something. We all have our ways to compensate for that. There’s the “Phil Jackson was actually good” strategy, there’s good old fashioned goalpost moving, and then there’s the quit and take your ball home strategy.

    All preferable, apparently, to simply saying “Yeah, I guess I was wrong about that.”

    Here, I’ll do it: I thought Leon Rose was a pretty mid GM who was not going to be able to build a real contender, or a team that I could at least dream on to be a legitimate contender. Turns out I was totally wrong! He has done a great job. Turns out some of his weaknesses are more than compensated for by his strengths. You actually CAN build a very good team through the hybrid method, and it turns out that Leon Rose was indeed a lot better at it than I ever would have thought!

    See, it’s not that hard. Some people can’t do it though.

    The Knicks are really good and should go all in to win a title, and that’s why they shouldn’t have traded RJ Barrett, who I didn’t like, and proven playoff failure IQ, who I also didn’t like. I’m the only smart one here

    See, it’s not that hard. Some people can’t do it though.

    If you’re talking about me (and not djphan, I can’t tell), I already said pretty much exactly what you said in your penultimate paragraph something like four days before the OG trade. It’s in the post in the archives that the house archivist won’t post.

    it took a while for the perception of julius to catch up to his on-court impact…

    even more extreme situation for The Player Born to Play Basketball…folks just catching up now…

    OG is going to be the exact same…he is gonna turn in to The Claw 2.0…and he’s really good now…

    Nor is asset value dependent on current production, as anyone who invests in the stock or bond market will tell you. That goes double for someone whose current production is limited by the context and environment in which he’s producing.

    I agree with what you are saying.

    Even this season I was debating who I’d rather trade. Should it be Randle (sacrifice greater current production and take a longer term view) or RJ (improve now but potentially sacrifice a bit 3-5 years out when Randle starts his decline and RJ is peaking).

    But a lot of that depended on how I value Randle to begin with.

    I’m sure Masai thinks RJ will get better. So does Rose. But there is a speculative component to that. We know what we got with OG. Our timeline is clearly accelerating and OG fits perfectly. In 3-4 years we’ll see where RJ and Quickly are. We’ll also see what moves come next here and whether we have a real contender in that accelerated window.

    “I’m sure Masai thinks RJ will get better. So does Rose. But there is a speculative component to that. We know what we got with OG.”

    OG’s an elite value stock. They traded two growth stocks for him. Value sometimes outperforms growth. Growth sometimes outperforms value.

    You guys gotta take your personal feelings out of the equation. You know what teams do with millstones? Look at Evan Fournier. If you’re starting and playing 33.6 mpg, your team values you.

    Not all millstones are the same. If Fournier was the 3rd overall pick and our highest draft pick since Patrick Ewing, upon whom the FO had put their stamp of approval by giving him an extension, you can bet the considerations would be different. We had clear incentives to play RJ so he’d put up 20 ppg and hopefully some Isiah Thomas-like GM would think he was worth something.

    Unfortunately it didn’t work, so plan B was that we had to part with our best young player to salary dump him for OG when we might have otherwise been able to swing it for Fournier + picks.

    We had clear incentives to play RJ so he’d put up 20 ppg and hopefully some Isiah Thomas-like GM would think he was worth something.

    They didn’t make the trade with Isiah; they made it with one of the best GMs in the association.

    The issue with RJ was never his “current” production. Everyone could see he was/is a net negative player. The issue was always what kind of player he’d be at 27-28 when he’s peaking. That kind of projection is always a moving target because the clock is ticking and the player is developing at “whatever” rate as time passes.

    The enthusiasm was waning as the clock was ticking.

    Strat, respectfully, it is unprecedented in NBA history for any player with as much bad play as RJ has recorded to develop into anything resembling a star. The clock done ticked awhile ago.

    their good faith words and opinions twisted all the time into something they aren’t, be called a bunch of personal names, and otherwise be made the butt of ridicule and ill-humor?

    Pretty accurate description of many, including me, posters’ view of djphan.

    Strat, respectfully, it is unprecedented in NBA history for any player with as much bad play as RJ has recorded to develop into anything resembling a star.

    He never played as bad as the haters continued to say (and apparently can’t stop continuing to say). When the hate is so deep that you hear that he played “shitty” in last year’s playoffs, you pretty much know you aren’t in the land of the objective anymore. You’re somewhere else.

    Hubert’s wish is my command.

    Took a two-week hiaitus from the site, which was peaceful but lonely. Wrote a lot of quite funny posts that rattled around in my big, empty head, which wasn’t nearly as much fun. Missed almost all of you.

    Came back briefly to see what was up after the Utah game, where I saw a truly euphoric thread get highjacked and corrupted by E once again, as everything became people arguing against his takes or belittling them, or both. So I left again until just now.

    But that’s the point, fellas. E says inflammatory commentary because he must make the site all about E! He can’t really have everyone respond to him constantly and verifying his existence and importance by saying sensible shit. So he trolls. The very definition.

    I really hope we can all suck it up and either skip his posts or at least not respond to them, because if you respond then we’ll then read your post and then we’re all swept up into the E maelstrom again.

    Just don’t feed the troll. All our lives will be better. I’m going to step away again because even after 12 years in and out of Afghanistan I find E and his narcissism to be more triggering than bomb blasts.

    As they say in the Knick 24 second bits, that’s a wrap. Raven out.

    As far as future trades, Julius has to be a pretty useful salary next year and he’s probably the best spot to upgrade

    For arguments sake, let’s say we did overpay for OG in a vacuum, it’d still be worthwhile. We specifically needed OG Anunoby and Toronto had a monopoly on OG Anunobys.

    We traded a bad fit for a perfect fit, sometimes there’s a tax on those things. If you’re rebuilding a classic car, sometimes you need a part that’s no longer being manufactured and you’re okay paying extra for that part.

    If you’re rebuilding a classic car, sometimes you need a part that’s no longer being manufactured and you’re okay paying extra for that part.

    Not if you’re competing with 29 other classic car rebuilders for only one classic car rebuilder trophy. And when there’s a salary cap and other rules as to how much you can spend on parts.

    As to what Raven said, I mean what I say about basketball and the Knicks and that’s why I (sometimes) write it. I’m not looking for any responses from anyone about anything. If people want to engage what I say, great; if they don’t, also great. Entirely their call.

    Not if you’re competing with 29 other classic car rebuilders for only one classic car rebuilder trophy. And when there’s a salary cap and other rules as to how much you can spend on parts.

    If your car doesn’t run at its best, you’re not going to win

    Oh, came back on to say one other thing. That was one of the most amazing games I have ever seen, last night. Recency bias and all, but holy crap. Jalen Brunson really is The Closer. He’s Denzel Washington in ALL the Equalizer movies. Wow.

    If your car doesn’t run, you’re not going to win

    And you’re not going to win if you pay too much to fix it.

    As far as future trades, Julius has to be a pretty useful salary next year and he’s probably the best spot to upgrade

    I kind of agree, though I wonder how to upgrade on Julius. Unless Giannis somehow becomes available, it’s not an easy proposition. Markkaken would probably be a good upgrade, and might fit the team’s style, but trading with Ainge is a pain. Zion/Towns have their warts and I’m not sure they are a significant enough upgrade that would justify the cost. I doubt Sacramento would part with Sabonis, but he’d work too. Once you go down the list, the options are either unavailable or not clearly better than Julius.

    And you’re not going to win if you pay too much to fix it.

    You do if you get the best part that makes the whole car run better instead of the budget option

    Strat, respectfully, it is unprecedented in NBA history for any player with as much bad play as RJ has recorded to develop into anything resembling a star. The clock done ticked awhile ago.

    Not everyone on a contending basketball team has to become a star. They just have to be a plus player at their role.

    it’s good to read your words raven…life always seems busy for you, i hope you are well…

    biggest thing i got from your departure – words should be chosen carefully…

    i’m a really really big believer in shit should really only be said in person, otherwise what’s the purpose…

    small possibility for any positive resolution…

    the ability to incite is a powerful thing…and can carry consequences…

    i will say this as a point of strategy:
    shun your enemies, do not engage with them…

    if you do engage with them, it should be for profit beyond any emotional “payoff”…very small “win” there…

    and if you do engage, try to at least be a little sneaky about it 😊

    i’m going to be quiet now…hope you are well…

    I think the best E Rule isn’t to totally ignore him, but all takes should have to be accompanied by a falsifiable prediction. Otherwise he just claims victory no matter how laughably wrong he is…e.g. see above.

    So “Julius Randle is a proven playoff failure and always will be” should be ignored, unless there’s a “and that’s why the Knicks will lose in the [XYZ] round” affixed.

    “Leon Rose is incapable of building a contender” should be ignored, unless there’s a “and that’s why the Knicks will never make a conference finals under him” affixed.

    I could go on, but you get it. The vague takes that literally cannot be falsified are trolling. At this point I don’t even think he would backtrack on a thing if the Knicks won the finals.

    it’s funny, i always viewed the discourse here at KB as though we were all sitting down at a large table together to eat…

    the tone should match…sorry rama, but the smoking light stays lit…liquid vibations flow freely…

    good food is a must…music to set the mood…

    behave appropriately though…hmmmm, that may just be the episcopalian in me talking…

    Otherwise he just claims victory no matter how laughably wrong he is…e.g. see above.

    Everything you wrote in the “see above” is … is … /disposes of salty words that apply perfectly/ …. untrue.

    The distinction between saying someone “is good” and saying “I’m willing to take a risk on someone who isn’t good now because he might be good or even more someday” is fundamental. Yet you ignore them completely.

    The motives for that are certainly open to question. Can you help?

    And my “takes” don’t require a “falsifiable prediction” anymore than anyone else’s — less, really.

    A course on the concepts of risk and reward would probably be beneficial for you.

    i mean who just sits down at a table and starts talking shit to people…that’s weird, right?

    i mean, if KB was in person/live – on the one hand, things would devolve quickly in to chaos, perhaps violence…very doubtful of that though…

    on the other hand though – resolution of some sort would be accomplished quickly…

    yes, we should do this live…

    it’s funny, i always viewed the discourse here at KB as though we were all sitting down at a large table together to eat…

    I like that idea, but the reality of a sports discussion on the internet is that it unleashes the “dude seven beers deep sitting on the corner stool at an outer borough bar kitty-corner from the rub-‘n-tug” that lies deep (*) within most of us.

    (*) Or in some cases, maybe not so deep.

    i mean who just sits down at a table and starts talking shit to people…that’s weird, right?

    No one.

    i mean, if KB was in person/live – on the one hand, things would devolve quickly in to chaos, perhaps violence…very doubtful of that though…

    That would not happen.

    Geo, think of the internet as primarily a disinhibitor of the id. Moments of clarity will likely ensue.

    I think the best E Rule isn’t to totally ignore him, but all takes should have to be accompanied by a falsifiable prediction.

    I think the best E rule is for everyone (including E) to just let it all go.

    Let E be out there. He’s not a troll, he’s just quirky. But like all of us he is sensitive and when you gang up on him you create Defensive E. And Defensive E is a dick. He pricks your sensitive spot bc you pricked his, and now you’re in a blood feud. (It’s same thing with djphan.)

    All of this was covered, of course, in Alan’s review of Fargo Season 5!! Not all debt needs to be paid. Now wash your hands and make biscuits.

    (Reminder to click on the link!)

    https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-recaps/fargo-season-5-finale-fx-jon-hamm-maga-sheriff-juno-temple-noah-hawley-1234947475/

    That’s why I only post here while I’m naked, because the internet is a disinhibitor of the Id.

    Taking breaks when the discourse on anything gets too toxic is definitely a great idea, Raven, and I definitely do that myself every now and then. I’m here because this team has been so fun to watch that I have to have a place to gush about it with the people who have been around the times when things were so bleak. But this is also the only place where the discourse around a 15-2 team since a trade can be so toxic, so I guess I take the good with the bad and keep on going.

    E things are as you make them, particularly if you are patient and persistent…

    E your ability to get others engaged/enraged is impressive…truly…

    from a distance, the desire for others to want to engage with you is remarkable…truly…

    you should work in Marketing, you would crush it…

    especially considering you do not involve topics (which could be easily salacious) in your approach…

    you are doing what your are doing – with freaking basketball…basketball…

    bravo, bravo indeed…your ability to manipulate folks is impressive…truly…

    like some jedi mind trick thing…

    even al, you even get to engage- and he almost never does that kind of stuff…

    oh goodness…if you please E, at least switch things up just a little every once in a while to keep the rest of us from going crazy(r)…

    thank you in advance for your consideration,

    geo

    Missed last night’s game b/c family and work. Just had a chance to see the Brunson interview with Hahn.

    Wow. Literally got chills watching Jalen break down emotionally with the MSG chants. And I still love seeing video scraps of him as a kid working out with his dad. So thrilled for this guy. The (new)Captain?

    Catching up with today’s thread:

    @Geo, loving your attempts to be the site ombudsman. Always enjoy your pure thoughts. We’ll get to nirvana one day.

    @Raven, so glad to read you again. Miss you in the game threads.

    @Knicks, keep going! 50+ wins, here we come 😉

    Also, we got Precious back in the OG trade. So when it went down, many viewed him as a useless throw in but he has actually proven to be a very capable back up PF/C, which was something we desperately needed. He’s even started and done well with Randle out.

    So in my mind we didn’t overpay at all. WE got rid of a bad player who was a horrible fit for basically the perfect fit and a huge upgrade. We gave up a very promising 6th man guard but got back a youngish big who looks like he will stick with the rotation.

    It was a home run, slam dunk trade and to say otherwise is just foolish.

    I think the best E rule is for everyone (including E) to just let it all go.

    Nah, the best E rule is to mercilessly make fun of him for being stupid. If you can’t even feign to act positive about the team right now and still take a holier than thou, I only care about winning a championship attitude, then you deserve to be mocked right now. The team is literally doing better than it has done in most of our lifetimes right now. We’re 15 GAMES ABOVE 500, have 2 all-stars, all our first round picks, a great cap space situation and are the hottest team in the NBA right now. To act like you’re smarter than everyone because you prefer winning a championship is the height of douchiness.

    It’s fine to bring up concerns or whatever but to keep using BS phrases like hustebunnies and moneyball, thibs blah blah blah…you just look foolish and deserve our scorn. go root for the fucking celtics.

    He never played as bad as the haters continued to say (and apparently can’t stop continuing to say). When the hate is so deep that you hear that he played “shitty” in last year’s playoffs, you pretty much know you aren’t in the land of the objective anymore. You’re somewhere else.

    Sorry, did the haters not cite objective numbers showing how bad he is? Because there are a lot of them, they are pretty much universally bad, and there is no identifiable positive trend over the last 5 years.

    He never played as bad as the haters continued to say (and apparently can’t stop continuing to say). When the hate is so deep that you hear that he played “shitty” in last year’s playoffs, you pretty much know you aren’t in the land of the objective anymore. You’re somewhere else.

    His numbers were okay because everybody doubled off him to cover Brunson. When you play RJ with Hart, the already poor offense was even worse. It wasn’t some secret that the spacing sucked with him on.

    You can look at the On-Off numbers and see how unbelievably detrimental he was to the offense despite putting up basically the same numbers he did in the regular season.

    It’s like Deuce playing PG, the individual numbers can be good but everything else on offense is much worse.

    It’s not hard to put up good numbers when nobody guards you.

    Deuce plays defense at least.

    Deuce is good, I just think he’s miscast as a PG.

    Oh, came back on to say one other thing.

    -That was one of the most amazing games I have ever seen, last night
    -Recency bias and all, but holy crap.
    – Jalen Brunson really is The Closer
    – He’s Denzel Washington in ALL the Equalizer movies.
    -Wow.

    Raven, my count is 5 other things, the 5th the best 1 word comment of the thread. As a fan of Edward Woodward, suspect I disagree with the fourth, but hinges on how Denzel built his character portrayal.

    Need you to keep on posting, particularly during this purple patch to keep us on our toes.

    It’s not hard to put up good numbers when nobody guards you.

    It is for Josh Hart!! -6.1 bpm last night with no one guarding him 🤦🏻‍♂️

    Hubert we know you don’t like Josh Hart but there was basically nobody else to play yesterday

    We need a resident GIF maker to get Monica McNutt’s stinkeye on ESPN when SAS said he didn’t vote Jalen Brunson as an all star starter.

    Joke of the day (heard it from a couple of commentators today)
    “The Knicks were lucky to get OG in the Precious Achiuwa trade”
    😊😊😊

    It is for Josh Hart!! -6.1 bpm last night with no one guarding him 🤦🏻‍♂️

    Hubert, where do you get BPM for an individual game?

    On the subject of crazy Lakers moves, if they were to tear it all down:

    Randle, Mitch, and all our picks from here to eternity for Bron and AD. Maybe even just for AD.

    Who says no?

    I actually do not dislike Josh Hart and I’m more than fine with him playing 40 mins a game right now.

    If I’ve been repetitive it’s bc no one else has said anything so I kept saying it to see if I was going crazy or not.

    Now that EB & Strat validated my observations I will dial it back a lot. I just couldn’t help myself after EB said that.

    Pags – it’s in the box score on basketball reference

    The Knicks should not send all of their picks for a 39-year old and a 30-year old who hasn’t played more than 62 games since 2019-18, and seems to be in decline even if he’s still excellent. I think there is a world in which an AD trade makes sense, but it does not involve giving up the farm for him.

    Basketball Reference has single game bpm on their game boxscore page.

    “You guys gotta take your personal feelings out of the equation. You know what teams do with millstones? Look at Evan Fournier. If you’re starting and playing 33.6 mpg, your team values you.”

    Doesn’t this logic appy to Hart as well.

    Some teams don’t crash the offensive boards because they want to get back on defense and not give up easy baskets.

    Since the OG trade, the Knicks are both the #1 offensive rebounding team in the league AND the #1 defense, which means we’re getting great results crashing the boards and paying no price for it on the defensive end.

    Uh, yeah. I think it’s pretty obvious the Knicks really value Josh Hart. They traded for him, gave him a hefty contract extension, and play him 30 mpg. It would be silly for me to argue that the Knicks think he’s a millstone just bc I personally do.

    Josh Hart is the anti-RJ. If you’re going to have a shitty scorer, better one who piles up rebounds, assists, and stocks while playing great defense and using few possessions than one who does none of those things while playing terrible defense and using a ton of possessions.

    We’ve apparently made peace with Klutch which means Randle + Fournier for LeBron is back on the menu

    I’ve always liked the term “hustlebunny” and intended it in a positive way (it’s “Duracell Bunny” around here, from the old TV spots), it’s classic sport lingo to indicate someone with never ending energy that keeps going on and on forever.
    I’ve used it for decades (even doing recaps) well before E made it a refrain and I’m a little pissed off that someone can use it in a negative way… 😉
    If I was Josh Hart I’ll sport my hustlebunny badge on my sleeve with pride 😀

    Anyway, I’ve said it before, J-Hart main issue is his reluctancy to shoot more than his low percentages.
    Especially with our prowess in offensive rebounding a missed shot is “something”, while passing open shots freeze all the other players and make moving the defense useless.

    I’m fine with him as a 7th/8th man even in a playoffs series and that’s his role when we’re at full strenght.

    This 15-2 2024 start is great and at the same time i still think that, even with Deuce’s unequivocal progress, we need a reliable initiator/shooter from the bench, but I’m okay with staying put at the deadline.

    We must be worried tinkering with our chemistry, so if we make a move reknown troublemakers and low BB-IQ players must be avoided.

    RIP, Carl Weathers. The unsung hero of the Rocky franchise, and a guy who deserved a much bigger career (at minimum as an action hero) than he got.

    A lot more people would agree with Hubert if we had lost last night while Hart was passing up open 3s and Brunson was getting quadruple teamed.

    The only reason it worked out was that nobody can stop Brunson short of punching him in the face — but apparently that’s allowed now

    Grimes already listed as Out for tomorrow, fear this might be a more serious injury than initially thought considering he returned to the game and didn’t look affected by the injury.

    @NBA_NewYork
    Knicks injury report vs Lakers Saturday:

    ––OG Anunoby QUESTIONABLE (right elbow inflammation)

    ––Quentin Grimes OUT (right knee sprain)
    (along with Julius Randle & Mitchell Robinson)

    Sad news about Carl Weathers (I really liked him in the original Predator).

    Grimes update is no good.

    Rocky is one of my favorite film franchises and obviously Apollo Creed is a big reason. He was also great as Chubbs in Happy Gilmore!

    Let E be out there. He’s not a troll, he’s just quirky. But like all of us he is sensitive and when you gang up on him you create Defensive E. And Defensive E is a dick. He pricks your sensitive spot bc you pricked his, and now you’re in a blood feud. (It’s same thing with djphan.)

    Now of course things have gotten all weirdly meta and navel-gazing, but I would suggest instead, simply reading the words in the posts I write, considering them and responding intelligently. Or not responding at all. Or not reading them at all. There’s no rule of the universe that says people simply must respond to every last thing on the internet.

    In terms of “quirky,” while the caricature of me might be, I kinda am … not. Professionally, I oversee the preparation and presentation of decidedly non-quirky evidence-based material and while this is not a professional setting — obviously — the spillover from professional life is likely pronounced. I’m pretty sure that when I see things that are BS and based on nothing, professional life spills over.

    In terms of basketball, which again is what I’m interested in, the following statements are all plain vanilla, mainstream basketball statements with widespread concurrence throughout the basketball world. There isn’t the slightest bit of “quirk” in any of them.
    I’ll pick a few:

    1. Kristaps Porzingis is an excellent basketball player.
    2. Dejounte Murray is a better basketball player than Donte Divincenzo.
    3. Donte Divencenzo has been bad in 26-ish playoff games (*)
    4. RJ Barrett is neither a “negative asset,” nor does he “suck.”
    5. Cam Reddish had high-level tools that could be worth taking a shot at developing.
    6. Tom Thibodeau is 31-41 in the playoffs, far below his regular season record.

    I can think of plenty of others, but you get the drift.

    (*) “And it’s right for a team in the Knicks’ position to worry that he will be again this spring” is also plain vanilla and mainstream without the least bit of quirk, but I won’t include it in the body.

    You’re quirky in this forum because you have relatively peculiar and unexpected takes. That’s all.

    Grimes injury might mean he doesn’t get traded, which might not be a bad thing.

    That was my counter intuitive take as well.

    Yup, getting out of trade chatters is good for his head and I don’t want him traded, but I’d like to know more about his knee… 🙁

    We’ve apparently made peace with Klutch which means Randle + Fournier for LeBron is back on the menu

    Hopefully this means they can circle back to Brogdon now.

    You’re quirky in this forum because you have relatively peculiar and unexpected takes. That’s all.

    Consider on the other hand that we’ve had a long list of claims today that Masai Ujiri, one of the best GMs in basketball, whom pretty much everyone on Knickerblogger has salivated over for like a decade, sold one of his best assets at cut-rate prices prior to even setting up a last-minute deadline bidding war … because he was fooled by RJ Barrett’s pointzzzz.(*)

    The terms “quirky” and “peculiar” may at that point take on different meaning.

    (Hubert can advise as to whether this is the fan in people talking — it might be and that’s fine. It can’t possibly be the analyst in people. I’m in pure analyst mode at the moment, given the possibilities in front of this team. That very well might be a bit off-beat. So be it.)

    (*) TL:DR — there’s no way in holy hell Masai Ujiri thinks of RJ Barrett as a “negative asset” or even close. He jumped on him and IQ before barely even putting OG out for bid. Leon paid for no bidding war.

    2. Dejounte Murray is a better basketball player than Donte Divincenzo.

    Why do you suppose BPM and EPM favor Donte over a large sample this season? Does it factor in at all that DJM costs twice as much?

    4. RJ Barrett is neither a “negative asset,” nor does he “suck.”

    What statistical support is there for this to weigh against the mountain of statistical evidence to the contrary?

    What statistical support is there for this to weigh against the mountain of statistical evidence to the contrary?

    if you look on NBA 2K…there is a little meter on the bottom on the player screen…its a “moxie meter”….I believe RJ’s is off the charts…it’s not cited often but those in the know…are aware of it…and if that meter is green…means “he no suckie”…

    Masai Uijiri is a good GM, but, y’know, take a gander at the current NBA standings. Whatever he was cooking over there wasn’t working. The guy isn’t infallible.

    E doesn’t believe in BPM or EPM, thinks they’re meaningless, not even worthwhile as a shorthand kind of tool. Also doesn’t believe in stocks as a general measuring stick of individual defense, nor does he believe that deflections are a viable means of evaluating a player’s defensive contribution.

    What he does value, are a player’s moxie, and a presumably related metric, which is if a player has done relatively well in five playoff games.

    Masai traded this year’s first rounder – which right now would be the 6th pick most likely – for Jakob Poeltl. His talent evaluation is not infallible.

    Raven, glad to see you. Just do what I do and ignore all of E’s posts. I don’t know if he’s a troll or not, but realized I don’t care since he never says anything of value to me. I’m here to learn more about bball, share the joy or pain (mostly pain) of rooting for this team, and get a few laughs. During the pandemic it was more than that, a real community, and that was great – but if I’m getting the rest of those ingredients, I’m happy.

    I’ve learned a ton since I started lurking 20 years ago – I knew Tyson Chandler was better than Eddy Curry, but couldn’t say why exactly. That journey took me through Wages of Wins, when I made mistakes like thinking WCS would be better than KP, to understanding the value of usage, to appreciating the interplay of the four factors as a measure of a team’s potential. There’s a lot more to figure out, but I feel pretty confident I could do better than the Pistons front office, for example, and that’s largely because of this site. So, thank you all, and keep posting, Raven! And feel free to ignore me too, E. I truly can’t understand people who need so desperately to be the center of attention by poisoning the well, but another thing I’ve learned is that I don’t need to. Number 9, number 9, number 9….

    I do think Masai probably managed to wrangle the Detroit pick instead of the Utah pick bc he’s a better negotiator than Leon.

    At the end of the day, though, it just isn’t that compelling of a discussion.

    At the end of the day, though, it just isn’t that compelling of a discussion.

    It’s not compelling at all, actually. It only matters because the asset chest is a lighter than it would otherwise be, but that shouldn’t stop them from getting a DJM or someone similar. (If we hear that they were close to getting a DJM but Leon “just couldn’t pull the trigger on that many draft choices,” then it will matter.)

    You’re quirky in this forum because you have relatively peculiar and unexpected takes.

    What is unexpected about E reacting to a big win by posting an enormous number of negative replies whining about Thibs in the playoffs or how bad all the moves that got us to 32-17 were?

    hi rama, i was watching this euro youth symphonic “competition”…

    i’m not sure if it was a competition or not, but they were showcasing different youth orchestras from around the world…

    it was very very encouraging to see so many young folks enjoying and playing the music…

    I’ll be quick because i have to stat a baseball hand in a lil over an hour.

    E, two things;
    1. As a former landlord who sold his duplex last year, your comment about buying a house above asking price got me to respond. Technically you’re right, but there’s a great deal of context within that comparison, particularly if you’re buying an investment property. Many investors adhere to the 1% rule – let’s say you find a duplex for 175k, pay 200k and the current rents total 2k/month. Cool right? But what if the local market says both units should be getting you 2500, and one of your tenants is on a fixed income? And the reason those units are 500 below market value is because the interiors haven’t been updated since the 90s? Really easy for that property to turn into an overpay.
    2. What would you have traded OG for that you think Toronto would have accepted other than RJ and IQ?

    2. What would you have traded OG for that you think Toronto would have accepted other than RJ and IQ?

    One or the other of them, not both, plus draft picks. They needed to still have IQ for the trade deadline.

    My “plan” for the contending team post that TNFH won’t post was RJ-plus for OG; IQ for DJM.

    I’ve always thought the hoarding draft picks for a superstar idea was a bit lame and now with Brunson’s emergence, it needs to be dropped entirely.

    Actually, DRed, he didn’t do that. His first 2-3 hours of posting was all glowy and positive. Shit went downhill when people decided to remind him that he hated the OG trade.

    From my vantage point, there is a group of you that trolls E as relentlessly as you think he trolls you. That’s why I suggested the mutual forgiveness of debt as the solution.

    But you guys don’t want to do that, so y’all are as much to blame for this shit as he is.

    Zach Lowe on his podcast talking about some really troubling trends for the Celtics.

    I really do think the East can be had this year, and if we don’t get a backup PG we’ll deeply regret it.

    If Bruce Brown is the guy, so be it. Better him than nothing.

    I’d happily forgive E if he stopped posting the same stupid bullshit day after day after day after day after day after day after day.

    I do at times find E’s bullshit entertaining but for the most part it really is super annoying.

    As someone who tended to agree on E on the merits of many things when times were bad… I have no choice but to concede that I was wrong on many of those things. And I wanted to be wrong, because I’m a die-hard fan and being wrong means things are going well!

    Trial Advocacy class was many years ago in another life for me, but I remember the wisdom of my professor’s advice to concede what doesn’t hurt you, because it builds credibility and goodwill.

    On a basketball forum, nothing hurts you. We’re all friends, kinda, or at least we could be. Why double down on ridiculous takes like the secret value of RJ Barret? Do you really consider arguments from authority to be more convincing than large expanses of data, or are you just being obstinate?

    I ask you, E, is there anything you can admit you’ve been wrong about in relation to the New York Knicks?

    Masai traded this year’s first rounder – which right now would be the 6th pick most likely – for Jakob Poeltl. His talent evaluation is not infallible.

    He gave up that pick and two 2nds.

    He might actually luck out this year because they’re so bad it’ll fall under the protections and get pushed to next year.

    All the feuding on this site really diminishes its value. Can’t we disagree with someone’s sports take without making it personal? If you truly can’t stand someone’s posts, just skip them.

    I log onto KB almost every day. When there’s endless back and forth bickering, I log off.

    People’s takes here are interesting, even the ones I disagree with. Let’s try to stick to that.

    Is there a “mute user” function on this site like there is on twitter (X)?

    God it would be so useful on days like these…

    (*) TL:DR — there’s no way in holy hell Masai Ujiri thinks of RJ Barrett as a “negative asset” or even close. He jumped on him and IQ before barely even putting OG out for bid. Leon paid for no bidding war.

    The issue is this type of shit, man. You say you work with evidence, then ok, what is the damn evidence you could possibly have that Masai Ujiri “jumped on him and IQ before barely even putting OG out for bid.”?

    Do you have a microphone or a camera on Ujiri’s office? Do you talk to him? Are you somehow connected to the Raptors or the Knicks? Do you have any insider knowledge about the offers Ujiri received, or how much he shopped OG?

    If you don’t, then how is this evidence based analysis? It’s just conjecture, like everybody else does, yet you keep acting like you’re so much smarter than everybody else.

    Either you have no idea what evidence means, which I doubt is the case, or you think so highly of yourself and your knowledge that you think your perceptions can’t possibly be wrong and thus are at the same level of evidence, that the things you say should be so clear to anyone smart enough to understand that they hold the same value. It’s very easy to understand why people wouldn’t like this sort of argument.

    I log onto KB almost every day. When there’s endless back and forth bickering, I log off.

    I will stop complaining about E I don’t want to turn people off this site.

    You say you work with evidence, then ok, what is the damn evidence you could possibly have that Masai Ujiri “jumped on him and IQ before barely even putting OG out for bid.”?

    He traded him a month (ish) before the deadline.

    I would again second Hubert’s advice that the “overpay” thing is kind of a boring conversation at this point and add “Why would anyone care so much if some dude that exists in the world thinks the Knicks overpaid for OG Anunoby?”

    Just let it go. It doesn’t affect you if someone or even a bunch of someones out there thinks that. A bunch of people think it wasn’t an overpay or that it was even a steal. I don’t care. They can think that.

    Speaking of twitter I think it’s pretty funny that KD woke up today and decided to start arguing with a bunch of random Knicks fans.

    Salient point, though (on him being a Knick):

    Nah you would’ve hated the expectations that come wit it, underdog stories work better in the garden

    Masai has all the vibes of a “jumped the shark” GM. He traded a DPoY-type player for an overhyped chucker and a starting PG who really isn’t a starter or a PG. But hey, he did wrangle a quality second rounder out of Leon!

    Seriously, if Leon somewhat overpaid out of expediency (he didn’t, but I digress), who the fuck cares? It’s a petty gripe. If you want someone real badly, you go out and get him unless the price is either ridiculously steep or is crippling to your plans moving forward. You don’t risk missing out in a bidding war by playing hard to get. In the case of OG, if you miss out on him, there are no analogs, no back up plans. He’s a unique player that fits what the team needs better than maybe any player in the NBA. You don’t get cute when opportunity knocks, especially with a team you have a $10M lawsuit pending against. You get the fucking deal done and you don’t look back.

    BTW, lots of folks thought that the Celts significantly overpaid for Derrick White. How’s that take looking in retrospect?

    awww, cyber…thanks for that link on jalen…that was so cool…

    oh my goodness…you started me on a bit of a deep dive the other day – i had no idea The Prophets of Rage was even a thing…

    i started watching the video and thinking to myself: that does not look like Sen Dog at all…Sen is like a cuban dude, that dude doesn’t look cuban…you know, he kind of looks and sounds like Chuck D 🙂

    also, started digging in a little more on the Tiny Desk Concert stuff: NPR…

    i still don’t really know what NPR really means – i see though from looking at their youtube page that they put out like 2 or 3 shows a week…

    i had absolutely no idea at the sheer number of performances they’ve filmed…amazing…

    watched some of the latest (Nile Rodgers/Chic and Bono/Edge)…just a perfect environment for a show…and what a crazy song catalog does Nile have…

    i also like how in the newer shows they show a camera perspective from behind the performing artists…i always wondered what the other side of the desk looked like…

    You know how sweet it is to look at tomorrow’s line of -5 ½ vs the Lakers?

    They’ll likely have LeBron and AD back, we’ll be missing Randle and likely OG.

    The Knicks are earning mucho respect, I even saw a Bill Simmons clip where he tells his Celtics to beware of the Knicks.

    Good times …

    I smoked a joint with Sen Dog once, at Roseland Ballroom. Stuttering John was also there for some reason. This is a much cooler event than my second biggest “brush-with-hip-hop royalty” anecdote, which occurred when I let Bone Thugs N Harmony borrow my USB cable. I also met Raekwon once but I was way too much in awe to do anything except sheepishly wave hello.

    I love this Tiny Desk performance by Tyler, The Creator. To me he’s the most consistently interesting voice in hip hop today, him and Kendrick. This performance really shows off his musicality and creative vision, I think:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1w-hDiJ4dM

    I always thought this site was better when the Knicks were bad. But now that the Knicks are good, it’s become intolerable, though not for the reasons I expected.

    I root against the Knicks because I don’t care to see James Dolan holding the O’Brien Trophy with a shit-eating grin on his face. But I’m almost at the point of hoping the Knicks do win, just to shut E and his cooley law quality, night-court level litigating up once and for all. (Go Knicks?)

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