From Woj:
The Toronto Raptors are finalizing a trade to send OG Anunoby to the New York Knicks for a package including RJ Barrett, Immanuel Quickley and draft considerations, sources tell ESPN.
I was literally just writing a comment about Leon Rose needing to be bold, clicked “post,” and then I saw this, and fuck, this is definitely bold. Good for you for that, Leon. The consolidation trade finally came, and they also have their fill-in center while Mitch is out, as Precious Achiuwa is also in the deal. The draft considerations appears to be this year’s Detroit second (which will be the #31 pick in the draft, so it’s not nothing, but it’s not a distant Knicks first, either, which is nice. Honestly, though, I think that this Detroit second probably has more value right now than the future firsts the Knicks have from Detroit and Washington, so it is a significant piece).
I think it’s probably slightly selling a bit low on IQ, but hey, OG is really good, and obviously he fits the Knicks perfectly.
I am glad that the lawsuit didn’t prevent them from making a deal with each other.
EDITED TO ADD: Malachi Flynn is also in the deal, who is probably a better backup point guard than Deuce while the Knicks wait for the next move, which is almost certainly going to be Murray, right?
257 replies on “Woj Bomb: Knicks Trade for OG Anunoby”
Yeah, I’m not sure I love this as the all-in move, but at least it’s something, I guess. I just don’t think OG, at this stage of his career, maybe even equals the value of IQ, but at least the starting lineup gets more defense.
It really is too, too funny that I saw this trade right after saying Rose needs to make a bold move.
In any event, I assume a Murray trade involving picks and Fournier is coming next. It just makes too much sense.
IQ is gonna go off. Schroeder recently got benched and IQ has quietly (thanks to a lack of minutes) put together his best season so far.
OG is a much better fit, maybe the perfect fit, and we alleviate the minutes issue… but it hurts to give up IQs raw talent.
It’d be hard to complain if we manage to bring in Dejounte too, which is absolutely doable.
Donovan mitchell has to be the move now
You can actually play a brunson mitchell backcourt with OG at the 3
Shams reporting we also got Malachi Flynn on the deal.
Yeah, I think I have to kind of like this. RJ wasn’t working out here, and his trade value was probably not very high. Losing Quickley hurts but at least OG can play. Something different to watch at least!
Malachi Flynn’s probably the new backup PG.
Now I’m hungry, I want Murray too… 😀
Flynn is terrible I did like him college
I liked Flynn coming out of college . .
Repost:
I mean, RJ stinks. So it’s IQ and #31 for OG. You can’t say we didn’t value IQ highly–the Raptors were looking for 3 firsts for the guy recently. I think the team is now better because it’s much more balanced and we weren’t playing IQ enough to benefit a ton from his good play anyway.
OG was 35th in EPM last year (though 109th this year FWIW), and I’ve always bought that the box score doesn’t do him justice. This is justifiable, especially with Achiuwa coming back.
But man, you really can’t help but think we’re gonna regret it. I will always root for IQ, and have a feeling he’s about to go a bit crazy with 30+ minutes secured.
Adding this to the original post:
-Malachi Flynn was a guy some people liked at a time. Is he our backup PG now? Guess so.
-Achiuwa’s EPM has tanked recently, but in 2022 (the season he played the most) he had an elite defensive EPM, something we clearly look for in centers. Congrats to Taj on the new assistant coach gig.
Bye bye moxie
I am in mourning for Immanuel.
Good for Barrett to move to Canada and maybe start over.
Poor Quickley — he has to keep playing with Barrett.
I can imagine his first reaction to hearing about the trade — “Oh damn… well at least I get to play without that moron…oh no…”
Two thumbs down.
I love me some IQ, but at $25-30M AAV on a team with Brunson, he just didn’t make as much sense here as he will in TOR. And whatever we lost in not paying him, we gained in a) acquiring a quintessential 3nD versatile wing that is a much better fit in our current starting lineup than RJ, b) dispatching the risk associated with RJ’s remaining contract, which right now looks like a significant overpay, and most importantly, c) preserving draft capital in acquiring a guy that was projected to cost multiple firsts.
IQ is an amazing and fun to root for home-grown player that will be sorely missed, no doubt about it. He may even become a dynamite starting PG who eventually makes us regret making this trade. But it’s a move that makes total sense in the current situation.
OG’s usg is down to 18 and his assisted 2p fg is up to 70s….
I was totally for an OG move in years past …. but this version of OG will likely make us much worse without another deal for another usg guy…. whether that’s Murray(unlikely) or Mitchell….
Arent the Knicks sueing the Raptors
Raptors play again in a little over five hours, could this be the chance for Detroit to break their losing streak?
Haven’t been around KB much as work has been nuts, but as far as I can tell the deal is:
Knicks get: OG, Malachi Flynn, Achiuwa
Raptors get: IQ, RJ, 2024 DET 2nd?
Gotta be honest… this is a really good deal for us with the caveat that OG can probably just write his own contract # this offseason?
RJ making $26MM and conservatively IQ getting $22MM/year on his next contract – there is just no way we could pay basically $50MM/year for one guy who is an actual net negative (RJ) and IQ who is awesome but will be a 6th man on this team.
Achiuwa is ok, certainly better than Taj, and will play a lot this season.
Flynn is not good but it’ll be interesting to see who plays backup PG – McBride or Flynn?
I assume the starting lineup will be Brunson, DDV, OG, Randle, Hartenstein
rest of 9-man rotation = Achiuwa, Hart, Grimes, and presumably one of Flynn or Deuce?
My guess is either Randle or Brunson are on the floor at all times. But this’ll be really interesting. RJ had a 27.5 usage and IQ a 25 usage… Grimes will get a lot more shots but on-ball creation might be a problem with the 2nd unit.
But man is that starting lineup way better with OG.
Funny, right?
Why do you think Murray is unlikely? The Klutch stuff?
Shams confirms it’s just the Detroit 2nd.
Barring another trade, the rotation is now:
C: iHart / Precious
PF: Randle / Precious / Hart
SF: OG / Hart
SG: DDV / Grimes
PG: Brunson / Deuce or Flynn
Backup PG seems to be the big weakness. But that roster makes so much more sense than the one we had yesterday. And, yes, another move has to be in the works, whether it’s Murray now or Mitchell in the off-season.
I haaaaaate losing IQ. But this roster makes a million times more sense than the one from yesterday.
iq at 22 mill and starting him plus drafting jalen williams > Og at 35 plus
We had to give up something of value to get OG. Masai is not stupid. I’m super pumped to get OG and Precious is a nice bonus. I love this trade. It’s probably good for IQ’s career as well. Bring in Murray and we are contenders in my opinion.
My sense of Precious is that he’s talented but very inconsistent, ie not really a Thibs kind of player. Do we think he’s in front of Sims once he gets healthy?
Came back here to post exactly this lol.
The Dejounte Murray rumors sound way more believable now I suppose.
Murray and OG would be a ridiculous defensive combo – add in Grimes… hoo boy.
Just checking, they can just max OG, right, without any limitations?
I think he’s definitely the backup center the rest of the way.
Precious is much better and versatile than Sims
The biggest thing is that there was no draft compensation added, just the Detroit second, so there’s still room for more moves. I still like it, OG has been playing on a very disfunctional Raptors roster and he will join us with a very clear role that he should excel in. He still has a better ts% than Barrett ever had.
It still hurts to see IQ go and I’m sure he’ll have success in Toronto, but I like the fact that we acquired a very good player and still have assets to make other moves.
They were out of place at the time, but yeah, it was likely a case of them knowing this was coming first.
Jared Dubin with a good point about OG resigning – his agent is literally Leon Rose’s son. He’s a Knick for the foreseeable future.
Betcha that lawsuit gets quietly settled….
So the Knicks plan to keep Thibs around for the foreseeable future
Cause you don’t allow him to screw quickley like this and then not extend him
Its a caa business with Leon and thibs
Rose son or not, this trade doesn’t get made if he’s not coming back, so yes, that part was a foregone conclusion.
I’ve been mad we’re not playing IQ more for like 3 years but this is not how I wanted to solve that problem
I really do love OG Anunoby a lot. I was just thinking about how cool it will be to see him play as a Knick.
Not having to watch Barrett anymore is worth it….
Look I hate losing IQ but getting OG and Achiuwa for one pick (plus getting rid of RJ)…this seems like a good deal.
Our starting 5 is legit really good now. We vastly improved our perimeter defense and three point shooting and we’ve kept pretty much all of our picks for another move.
I don’t hate it although I’m super bummed about losing IQ. Too bad we extended RJ.
I assume Murray’s value is much lower now than when Atlanta traded for him? Otherwise, I’m not a huge fan of that move.
But only giving up a 2nd (albeit a nice 2nd) in this trade isn’t bad, especially since we got rid of RJ in the process. Some here thought it would take at least that just to get rid of RJ on his own.
IQ could easily become a tremendous 2-way starting point guard, though. We have to brace for that fact.
It’s likely lower now, yes.
“Betcha that lawsuit gets quietly settled….”
I was thinking the same thing…
If they get Murray, would Grimes be in that deal? I’m not seeing as much of a role for him if Murray comes over, as you’d think that DDV and Hart would have all of the backup 2 and 3 minutes, right?
Worth noting that all these guys are pretty young. Not young young, but they’ll stick around for a while.
Article reviewing Achiuwa’s last season:
https://www.raptorshq.com/2023/6/1/23720942/player-review-precious-achiuwa-a-season-of-non-linear-growth
Flynn:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.raptorshq.com/platform/amp/2023/5/23/23690981/toronto-raptors-2022-23-player-review-malachi-flynn-the-raptors-ebug
OG:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.raptorshq.com/platform/amp/2023/5/23/23734426/player-review-o-g-anunoby-finally-receives-the-all-defence-recognition-he-deserves
I imagine acquiring RJ was the judge-ordered punishment.
One thing we won’t experience is RJ somehow blossoming with a change of scenery
He is what he always will be. Kind of sad really.
“I really do love OG Anunoby a lot. I was just thinking about how cool it will be to see him play as a Knick.”
I am very excited to see him too. Precious is a solid back up at the 4/5 also. This roster now makes sense for Thibs as well. If we can get Murray for say Grimes, Fournier, and 2 firsts, we will be a complete team with no holes to fill.
McBride gonna get his shot now.
If he was ever going to blossom (he won’t), you’d think that playing in his home country would be it (it won’t be it).
I think he might still be behind Flynn. Tonight, though, yeah, for sure.
IQ is the best player in this trade. But the team is improved quite a bit by the deal, just by virtue of exiling RJ.
I don’t know, I don’t like it but I don’t hate it either. It’s a competent deal.
“I still think we have the assets to do everything we have to do, but they have to pull the trigger at least once soon and the big trigger by summer”
I guess this was soon enough.
I love landing OG, but the loss of Quickley hurts a LOT. He going to be their starting PG and I think he’ll be successful. I’m not entirely sure if the upgrade from RJ to OG is as large as the loss of Quickly, but we are positioned way better long term to add an upgrade at SG like Mitchell (or whoever) and have that extra defense behind the guards.
Mitchell is a must now
Leon Rose wasn’t brought in to get OG anunoby
I mean, our biggest weakness was guarding big wings. When Jalen Williams (who some folks like here) goes off on a career night on you, it’s time to make changes.
Also, I guess it’s confirmed now that DDV was indeed IQ insurance.
there’s so many things working against a Murray deal… and chief among them is that it’s probably not a great idea given the Murray and young pairing… Murray works best running more of the offense and not in this your turn my turn type of deal that we and Atlanta runs….
then you factor in the klutch thing which is a huge roadblock and LeBron is also desperate for another piece he’s going to put out all the stops to get that done…. I just don’t see it happening…
Mitchell is another thing but Cleveland is doing ok right now to think that they can stay afloat to keep it together through this year… next year we’ll see but that’s probably our best move is to wait for that and not go after Murray now…
The more I think about it the more I think it’s a move you have to make…even if I wouldn’t have personally made it for irrational reasons.
You just can’t say we didn’t value IQ highly. We swapped him with matching salary and a second (admittedly a very good one) for one of the most sought after players in the league.
At the end of the day we traded from an organizational strength (combo guards) to address a massive organizational weakness (wings). We also crucially have plenty left over for another trade.
The roster is really well-balanced now and after some growing pains I think we’ll be pretty good, but we still need to throw our haymaker trade wise.
I don’t know Achiuwa at all. One the surface he doesn’t look very good, but they needed a backup PF/C and at least they got someone to take a good look at.
It’s a shame we don’t get to see the OG-Mitch defensive pairing for now.
Can’t wait for Doogie to lose his shit when Clyde calls Annouby “Newby” and Achuiwa “chihuahua”
Even if we trade for Murray, we potentially have enough in the cannon to take a shot at a star.
I guess RJ is someone else’s MIGRAINE now. 😉
CAA strikes again!
I think I’m grudgingly for this trade. It’s going to suck to watch IQ put up 20 ppg, but I wonder how much additional productivity you get with him at higher minutes/usage given that his defensive productivity will suffer. OG obviously fits a need and getting rid of RJ is addition by subtraction. We’ll see what the future holds.
Interesting question: with Precious in the fold, do we think Mitch or I-Hart could be on the block as well? Perhaps in, say, a Murray/Capela swap?
This is true, although Brunson isn’t a traditional lead guard but more of a small off-guard.
It would take a much bigger offensive shift to bring Murray in, as opposed to just plopping OG into the lineup. Right now, Brunson kind of brings the ball up and then looks for his drive (or else gives it to Randle who then does the same). Murray would give us a more traditional, distributing PG, with Brunson playing the smaller 2-guard role. It would be a big shift, and everyone would kind of have to learn on the fly.
“CAA strikes again!”
I definitely think we had Masai by the short and curlies for once!
Canada must be hyped to get the Maple Mamba back!
The other thing — and it showed out big time last night against Orlando, which is huge across their lineup – we needed more size. Pre-trade we were playing without a real backup 5 or 4 — Taj is a space-filler, not really someone who could contribute. OG is now the backup 4, and Precious is at least a guy who can theoretically be playable as a backup 5 as opposed to Taj or Sims.
(A little) more rational thoughts:
– The roster is more balanced now and OG fits like a glove in the starting lineup. I hope he’s pumped up by the change of scenary.
– Achiuwa is an energetic little option as the 4/5 backup and Flynn, while not good, is competent enough to play 10-12 MPG as the backup-PG during the regular season (anyway this is Deuce chance to earn a spot in the rotation).
– Our bench unit lacks scoring punch. Barring another trade Grimes needs to raise his volume, a lot.
– Grimes is the only first rounder from the last 5 years still on the roster. And if we trade for Murray or Spida (both would mean a big adjustment on offense, one would need a huge adjustment on defense), Grimes would probably be in the package.
Leon’s showing us two middle fingers chanting “Who needs first round picks?”.
– Like others I’m thinking Mitch or I-Hart could be on the trade block. One has a great contract but is often on the shelf, the other is a CAA guy, always available, but a free agent in the summer. Uhm….
– Leon’s basically the Godfather of a Mafia Family. Opinions may vary on this but honestly I’m not thrilled.
– We have a game tonight and I’m already breathless…
“Worth noting that all these guys are pretty young. Not young young, but they’ll stick around for a while.”
On the flip side:
Barrett and Quickley are 23 and 24. Barnes is 22.
This is a really tough one to grade.
I don’t like that OG is being valued as the perfect version of himself. He’s 26 years old and his value reflects a baked-in leap. RJ and IQ, on the other hand, are being valued as if they don’t have upside when it’s far more likely the two of them have more to show than we’ve seen.
I think we gave up the best player in the deal and more. That’s not good.
This was a lot for a guy who’s about to walk. It’s gonna cost $30-$40MM AAV to keep OG around, and I have no idea if he’s worth that.
I didn’t want to give up on RJ but I have grown tired of him.
I didn’t want to give up IQ but we’re never gonna play him and DDV gives us a lot of the same.
At the end of the day, I really don’t know how good OG is. Is he this good? We’ll find out, I guess.
Regardless of how you feel about RJ or Quick, it’s good to remember that they scored over 22 points each per 36.
OG is currently at 16. We are going to have to make up that scoring somehow, which is why I could see a 2nd trade coming soon.
If Murray(for Grimes/Fournier) is the next move, I will not argue with the core of our rotation being Hartenstein/Randle/OG/Murray/Brunson/Hart/DDV. But are we SERIOUSLY sending the Raps RJ, Quickley, AND picks for OG and Flynn? Seems like alot. I liked Flynn coming out of college so I’m cool with he and Deuce battling it out for the 3rd PG behind Brunson and Murray, if a Murray trade happens. In fact, I hope a Murray trade happens for us as soon as he’s eligible. For now, this trade is gonna test the theory that OG’s strengths are enough to replace what we lose in RJ. As far as Quickley goes? Oof. That hurts. But worth it if we can nab Murray. I also liked Achiuwa coming out of college too.
I dunno..at least Leon’s doing SOMETHING. This trade feels like a slight overpay though- depending on the exact picks.
Achiuwa can rebound and occasionally block a shot, he’s better than either Taj or Sims and should be fine in the zero usage backup big role.
It’s hard to out a price on getting rid of RJ. That is my main takeaway
Hubert RJ is viewed as negative value
I think the Knicks realized his value was going any higher
I think they could have thrown in first to keep quicjley, but they decided not to
Since I’ve been saying for awhile that one of either RJ or Randle has to go and RJ is now out for the player I wanted most, I’m going to predict that this is not only going be an upgrade from RJ, it’s going to help Brunson and Randle as soon as everyone settles in.
Mitchell is probably next. But we will probably have to wait until summer or next trade deadline.
From Hoops Rumors:
Gutted to lose IQ.
Glad we didn’t give up any firsts and glad to see RJ gone but IQ for an expiring sucks. Not convinced OG is the answer. Maybe trading the farm for Mitchell is justifiable but please God, no Murray!
Good riddance RJ but it hurts to lose IQ especially since we never got a chance to see him with an expanded role. Definitely worried that this could turn into a Harden situation but the team should be better today than it was yesterday.
I don’t think so. Precious is a free agent at the end of the year. I think they just let him go, and this is a pure stopgap.
Probably, but we also gave up a bad player on a terrible contract. We should have let RJ walk or traded him years ago but this is where we are in 2023
The Raptors fans on reddit seem to like the trade, which makes me even more confident this is a good deal because they are one of the dumbest, most irrational fan bases I’ve ever seen.
Thanks, Max, I knew that there was some hook. The trick is that they can’t extend him. Oh well, that’s not a big deal, I’m absolutely positive he’s resigning for something like $35 million a year.
OG has been not-that-quietly pining for a bigger role in the Raptors’ offense, so it should be interesting to see what his ceiling is, given that he probably will be given the chance to up his usage.
When rose didn’t get mitchell, he then stupidly gave out an undeserving contract RJ didn’t earn and now he had to give up a good asset to get rid of him
I don’t really know how to feel about this trade.
On one hand RJ had to eventually go and OG seems like the perfect replacement for him but I just hate so much losing IQ. I will say before I thought a Murray trade was stupid but it would make alot more sense now.
“Interesting question: with Precious in the fold, do we think Mitch or I-Hart could be on the block as well? Perhaps in, say, a Murray/Capela swap?”
Precious is on an expiring deal, so who knows? I would like to re-sign him to something approaching an iHart-like deal. He’s a much better backup PF than Obi was, and is probably okay with a backup role.
This move allows Josh Hart to be just a small wing defensively and not have to ever worry about being matched up with big PFs like KAT, Giannis, Banchero, etc.
This probably opens things up for Grimes as well, although he might become trade bait in short order.
I’d say he’s as good a two way non star player as you are ever going to find and exactly what we needed on both sides of the ball. Don’t forget, OG can also play some backup PF. We solved a lot of issues with this one trade.
No we just need to upgrade SG and we go to war…and we have plenty of assets available to get that SG!!
Sad to see Quickley go. That one stings me personally, but imo we are positioned better now.
its simple for me
Go hard or go home
Make a statement
Mitchell has to be guy, Murray will underwhelm
Also mitxhell and iq are good friends..maybe this hurts the knicks
Cavs aren’t trading Mitchell this season, if Knicks make a move for one of the rumored guards before the trade deadline I would think it would be Murray.
I would much rather go for Murray, who was once a defensive monster, and can also stagger with Brunson and solve the 2nd unit usage issues, than back up the truck for Mitchell.
Achuiwa is not a good 3 point shooter, but at least he is willing to take them. He is the perfect 4/5 backup for us, especially if IHart leaves as a free agent.
We really needed to get bigger, and the Precious addition is solid. I’m leaning towards liking this, I just really don’t know if OG is as good as the hype. I’m not saying he isn’t. I just don’t know.
I just saw it was a 2nd round pick, so let me re-evaluate lol.
Well done, Leon. B+ that turns into an A+ if we flip Grimes and Fourner for Murray. For now we’re looking at a 9 man rotation of:
Hartenstein/Taj
Randle/Achiuwa
OG/Hart
DDV/Grimes/Hart
Brunson/DDV
Thibs will sprinkle in Deuce or Flynn depending on who is running the offense better. It’s ok..but we really need someone like Murray to make it work now so we can have:
Hartenstein/Taj/Achiuwa
Randle/Achiuwa/Hart
OG/Hart
Murray/DDV/Hart
Brunson/Murray/Anyone between DDV, Deuce and Flynn
Have a feeling Knicks might get run out the building tonight playing shorthanded, hopefully OG will be available on Monday.
My best guess is this is more or less it for this season, maybe we make a small-ish move to tighten up the backup PG spot or something but none of the guys we probably want will be traded by the deadline.
I think I said a few weeks ago that I thought the final version of this roster would have OG and Mitchell. I still think that, and now a lot more strongly!
“When rose didn’t get mitchell, he then stupidly gave out an undeserving contract RJ didn’t earn and now he had to give up a good asset to get rid of him”
umm, no, he gave up a good asset to get OG, who is a really good player with excellent value around the league. Trading OG for IQ straight up would have been a huge win. I don’t think any team out there would have given up as much for IQ as for OG. He’s the prototypical asset that winning teams want to acquire.
The 31st pick in this draft is not nothing, but trading RJ and a second for Precious, Flynn, and whatever value beyond IQ that OG would have cost is not much different than having not paid RJ and risked losing him for nothing if he actually made a leap.
Without having read the thread i’m going to say i like the trade, RJ was holding us back and OG is miles better than him. And just because he lowered his usage recently, that doesn’t mean he can’t bring it up again. Losing Quick is bad, of course, but i think he wants so much money that Leon decided it was best to trade him. Some of us were already saying this, as they didn’t reach an agreement in the summer, that he’d likely be traded now. Getting Achiuwa is great, we needed a guy like him. So 2 spots improved, 1 spot regressed (6th man). Maybe Flynn can be a good surprise.
And now i’m going to read the thread! 😉
I was also proved wrong, that Toronto wouldn’t be dealing with us. But i’m happy i was wrong. 😀 Doesn’t the trade feel in favor of the Knicks with the draft compensation being so low? I won’t be surprised if we drop the lawsuit in the next few days. 😛
I have no idea what Thibs is going to do, but I would move Grimes back into the starting lineup. I think the ball will move better and the spacing will be better with OG. That might help Grimes get a few extra shots and it would really solidify our starting defense. Plus, with Quickley gone the bench needs to replace some scoring. I think DDV will do a better job at that than Grimes.
Tough player to evaluate because so much of his value, if you believe in it, is outside the box score.
FWIW, he really has always graded out much better by metrics that try to account for that kind of thing than he does by the box score AIOs. He’s had two top-40 EPM finishes and is 39th in ESPN’s RPM this year.
So I buy that he ain’t his decided Grimesian BPM et al. The question is whether he can take on more usage without an efficiency drop, because he’ll have to here. That Toronto roster has been pretty weird for years now, so there might be something to the idea that he has more than he was allowed to show there. We’ll definitely find out.
Just a reminder that Precious is only 6’8″. He’s a solid back-up to Randle (barring injury to Randle) at the four, and he can fill in at the five similar to what Taj has been doing, but he’s no rim protector.
In an ideal world, a Brunson/Randle pairing needs defenders and shooters, and not a low-efficiency high-usage non shooter who also is miscast as a defender.
If we’re team-building for the playoffs (where starters will play 36-40 minutes), interesting bench lineups are just not as useful as players who can stay on the floor against any/all of the combos we’ll see.
OG is that guy. RJ is definitely not that guy. And you need to give to get, which is what we did in sending out IQ, who was never ever going to get the minutes he deserves with us, so long as Brunson is around. And given that Brunson has now shown in two consecutive playoff runs that he can be a 1A scorer against playoff defenses, it’s hard to argue against the idea that they should prioritize what fits around JB over everything else.
by the way I would not rule out the idea that Thibs could start Josh Hart as the SG. His relative lack of shooting is way less of an issue in a lineup with OG instead of RJ.
Flynn statistically has had a pretty awful NBA career so far, hope Deuce gets a chance for now ahead of him.
Wonder if Grimes should go back into the starting lineup and let DDV basically take IQ’s role off the bench.
LOL
As exciting as getting rid of RJ in exchange for OG is, so unsettling for me is the loss of IQ. This player is as an intelligent student of the game as he is a hard worker. Toronto will probably be starting him. His upside is huge and we shall see how far he will go. I hope a few years from now we won’t be regretting that we had this guy and lost him.
And meanwhile, IQ is going to be amazing in Toronto. I have never been sold on the idea of him as the primary ball handler, but as a combo guard playing off a big wing playmaker (ie. Lebron, Luka, maybe Cade Cunningham, and now, Scottie Barnes), he is going to be just great. I am happy for him and hope he kills it except when he plays against us.
Of course he will start in Toronto
I’m pretty sure they don’t need any more evaluations of Dennis Schroder
He’s also an excellent fit next to scottie barnes for a long time to come
“Losing Quick is bad, of course, but i think he wants so much money that Leon decided it was best to trade him. Some of us were already saying this, as they didn’t reach an agreement in the summer, that he’d likely be traded now. ”
I mean, that’s the rub, isn’t it? How valuable is IQ right now compared to what it would be in June? It seems pretty clear that he was going to test the market….and if he got an offer for, say, $28M AAV, is he worth that on this team? Then you have to either pay him or lose him for nothing. And if you pay him, would he be as much of a trade asset on his new contract as was is right now in this OG deal?
From Toronto’s side, they were starting to get to the point of risking losing OG for nothing or overpaying him to keep him. There was pressure to make a move, and the longer they waited, the more OG would depreciate. I doubt that Masai is “thrilled” with the return he just got (he HAS to know that RJ’s contract is a huge risk and that IQ might cost him a bunch or walk), as much as he’s happy to not worry about it any more. He still has to figure out what to do with Siakam.
OG is a good player. You can’t trade for a good player without giving up something
Meanwhile..Toronto has a nice looking starting 5. Too bad Nurse is no longer the coach. I think Ujiri is gonna move Siakam for picks and build around Barnes, RJ, and Quickley. I’d love to see Siakam in GS, but they don’t really have a good offer in terms of picks.
Back to our Knicks. With OG in tow, I’m now ok with a Mitchell trade. Short of that, I’m great with a Murray trade as the 2nd option. Too bad OKC is really good this season because I’d use either option to make a play for SGA in a 3 teamer since we still have all of our firsts. I almost would like Murray as a Knick more than Mitchell because it would really tighten up our perimeter defense. But theoretically, with OG and a healthy Mitch- Donovan and JB would be just on the perimeter.
That’s a possibility also. I was thinking of moving Grimes back into the starting lineup to keep the spacing and upgrade the defense, but he may consider that also. I just think DDV has to go back to the bench because we need more scoring on the bench now.
“Just a reminder that Precious is only 6’8″. He’s a solid back-up to Randle (barring injury to Randle) at the four, and he can fill in at the five similar to what Taj has been doing, but he’s no rim protector.”
He’s a 6’8″ guy who plays 6’10, unlike Obi who was 6’9″ and played 6’5″. Think Okongwu, another 6’8″ C who makes up for lack of height in other ways.
OMG please stop with this
I don’t think adding Murray to this mix makes sense at all. We’re going to need more shotmakers.
https://x.com/billsimmons/status/1741150674472284573?s=10&t=qB5TwgWcjMz5TTx29kFiYg
Well, if we don’t make anymore moves right away, Grimes will have the chance to be the guy in the 2nd unit, which is what he wanted.
I also agree that moving Hart to the starting lineup makes more sense now, or at least staggering the minutes in a way that let’s DiVincenzo play more with the 2nd unit and with Grimes, because he’s a better creator than Hart.
I’m excited, Anunoby would have cost us 3 1sts last season at least, and now we got him for Quickley and a 2nd. If we can re-sign him for a reasonable amount, and make one more good move for either Murray or Mitchell, this team will be very strong.
While I share everyone’s concern that IQ is going to be gangbusters as a 30+ min starting PG in TOR but he’s also going to be held to a higher standard and will facing starting PGs night in and night out. That’s a lot more demanding that being largely in a 6th man/backup PG role. I hope he holds his own, but am honestly cautiously pessimistic…anyway, he’s a divisional rival now so why should I root for him to make good?
Sims is 6’9″ and Taj is 6’8.5″ w/o shoes. It’s a negligible difference.
If iHart leaves this offseason, it wouldn’t be a terrible idea to keep him around. He shot well from 3 and the ft line last year, but has completely regressed this year.
That Simmons trade idea for Clarkson just seems like completely out of nowhere.
Agreed, but I think more likely they just resign iHart.
LOL
Any fall off in OG’s usage or assisted fg rate is very likey due to the coaching change in Toronto and Barnes’s breakout rather than a change in OGs skill level.
Just because the team refused to use IQ correctly doesn’t make this a good trade. The team’s best lineups and upside came from the Brunson + IQ pairing. The Knicks mismanaged IQ and now packaged him with the damaged asset that took his minutes to acquire a worse player.
The roster isn’t doomed and overall construction makes more sense (minus the hole at backup PG), but now all the upside goes to acquiring a star and they lost their best asset.
You definitely can say that we didn’t value IQ highly.
The three pick valuation is absolutely meaningless at this point. OG was having a career year and had 1.5 years left on his contract when that rumor was floating.
Today OG is the middle of a bad season, the worst of his career since age 21, and he can walk in 6 months.
Also worth mentioning that “the raptors were looking for three firsts” but no one was actually offering them.
Ian bagels has spoken https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1741175828740771999
OG isn’t going to walk – Leon Rose son is his agent
Pretty sure they have an agreement in place already
As for quickley – many people are upset he’s gone
Zach Harper gave us a B+ and the Raptors an A for the deal. He seems pretty high (maybe as in, “Are you fucking high?”) on RJ.
Just the normal limitations that come with maxing a guy who under no circumstances should be a max player.
We just got rid of RJ, why would we want old, falling off a cliff this year RJ? Simmons has lost it or I’m about to be very upset.
At least pitch the idea that we’re going for Alec Burks, which seems like the kind of dumb thing we’d actually do.
They just lost to OKC and ORL. They’re 17-14. So, I’m glad they kept it together as long as they have, but I think it was time for a move. OG makes us better, I trust. He keeps us out of the play in tournament, I hope. Quickly is a great player, who will make us rue this day, but I think Leon has earned the benefit of my doubt, we’ll see. We have good production at combo guard still and we’re better at the three.
https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1741179083029966893?s=19
Thank you, Tastycakes! I really don’t understand what these Murray stans are pining for. DDV is having a much better season. I wouldn’t even want Murray to start for this team.
Bojan makes infinitely more sense now that OG is here and he won’t have the Murray price tag.
and it’s going to so much better now that we have offensive mastermind thibodeau….
I absolutely adore, “I want $40 million a year, but I’ll take less than $40 million to be a Knick.” Oh, gee, thanks, OG (and that was somehow not an intentional pun)!
From the Harper analysis:
Correct.
Correct.
Correct.
Correct, but all indications are that OG wants a bigger, not a smaller role.
Correct.
Correct.
Correct.
Correct.
Correct.
If the endgame is that they end up with Brunson-Mitchell-OG-Randle-Mitch as the starting 5 next year, with reasonably decent nuts and bolts backing that up, then Leon deserves a hat tip. That would be a pretty solid execution of the hybrid method. I’d be excited about that team, it would be a fringe contender.
Murray, OG, and Mitch would give us an awesome defensive trio to put around Brunson and Randle. Murray’s defensive effort in Atlanta is a question mark, but I believe the skills are still there. He also is a much better shot creator and passer for the second unit than DiVo. I could live with DiVo and Grimes, but Murray and DiVo would be a huge upgrade in my opinion. I think if you add Murray you have a real contender.
I mean, if RJ plays better somewhere else, great. He wasn’t gonna make it here, and his game has some massive holes. You’d think you would see SOME improvement year over year but he never seems to really improve at anything other than the bump in FT% this year.
I don’t know if anyone’s mentioned this, but screw Mitchell and Murray- and I can’t believe this hadn’t crossed my mind sooner. CALL SEAN MARKS AND OFFER UP GRIMES, FOURNIER, AND 3 FIRSTS FOR MIKAL- NEOWWW! If it takes 4, GIVE EM 4! They are going nowhere while Simmons is perpetually injured. They have no way to get a star in there until Simmons is back to form. This would be a great way for them to rebuild.
DO IT, LEON!
I would love to now trade for Mitchell but I’m not sure how realistic it is which is why I wouldn’t necessarily hate trading for Murray.
If RJ struggled here because of spacing good luck playing with Barnes, Siakam and Poetl.
RJ will step in and become a sixth man
They just wanted iq as a future pairing with barnes
LOL
It is shame that IQ had to go, but this trade makes too much sense for not to make it. RJ was a problem, we had no one else to play that role, and there are not going to be other players like OG easily available to us. And we had a gut at the SG position.
IQ plays such a nice defense for an offensive spark from the bench that he will be in the back of our minds every time he has a nice game; but he is also streaky, and he went cold in the playoffs. I like more the idea of Grimes as a SG, but he has started the year so bad that I worry that we have Landry Fields 2.0
In any case, I regard this move as very positive, and I really hope that we can get back Mitchell Robinson for the playoffs.
Maybe in a few years, RJ comes back to haunt us like KP is right now. But for me, the fact that we acquired OG without giving up a single first rounder is such a pleasant surprise that I’m okay with however RJ turns out.
IQ is another story. He’s really hard to hand-wave away. I just hope that he doesn’t become so good that it gets more painful as time goes on.
Objectively, I’m well on the positive side of neutral, with the fact that we did this without any loss in the ability to get a good player down the road is massive in and of itself.
“And we had a gut at the SG position.”
That’s what my rec b-ball teammates say about me…
With all they gave up to get him, it seems so hard to believe the Cavs would trade Mitchell any time before next season’s trade deadline, right?
How do they possibly have the chips to get Murray?
dejounte’s off to the lakers…donte is an amazing value at his salary cost – and, he plays the position well…
it just feels like we need to match jalen up with someone taller – yeah, that’s my brilliant analytical evaluation…
jalen brunson is short (for the nba, i’d be looking up to him standing side by side)…it just seems like we need to match him with a defensive minded and tallish shooting guard…
as silly as that sounds 🙂
Reaves seems to hold a lot of value
“IQ is another story. He’s really hard to hand-wave away. I just hope that he doesn’t become so good that it gets more painful as time goes on.”
I love IQ, but the acquisition of Brunson, Hart, and Divo means there was never going to be enough money or minutes for him. This is the consolidation trade we all knew was coming. OG and Achiuwa will fit right in. Now the pressure is on Thibs to make it work.
“dejounte’s off to the lakers”
Oh well!
Tom Thibodeau never warming to Immanuel Quickley is one of the weirdest things I’ve seen in four decades of following the association.
(And with the trading of RJ Barrett a very short time after his extension, the Charlie Ward curse has barely even been undone. Soothsayers would probably tell you it still holds.)
We traded for a known quantity (more or less), bet the definitive all-in move will come in a short time, this summer at the max, and (very important) kept enough assets to do it.
Toronto traded for improvement and change of scenary/role/offensive system, in the hope of finding two good players in the same age-curve than Scottie.
Only time will tell.
But from now on the games with the Raptors will be a blast…
this is it here…there probably is already a deal in place – hopefully the number is below like an average of 34 million a year…we are going to rightfully pay though…
so, reading through folks posts, and you do have some sensible takes, forever am i trying to abbreviate someone’s “name”…
i’m now stuck between:
– Etw…simple and direct
– weakminded…educate-the-weak reminds me of names folks use in pvp video game stuff…those boastful type monikers seem to be folks whom are normally young, or weakminded…not saying that as an absolute or anything…but…
– educated…a hopeful presumption
just wondering –
did you have another name before?
are you just joining up?
it seems like i’ve noticed a few new names recently…always nice when folks kick in…
i actually enjoy lurking here also…good to see you posting so regularly…
I truly wonder if someone could go back to yesterday and propose this exact deal on this site, how the reaction would have went:
I think mine would have been: I’d do that deal in a heartbeat, but no way Masai caves to that degree. Plus TOR would never trade with us anyway.
So with that in mind, now that it actually happened, I’m going to be true to that guess and offer a full-throated, non-hedged approval.
And if we had some truth serum, my guess is that all non-RJ stans here would never have thought OG could be had for that price, and would have jumped all over Knicks management if they learned that Masai made that offer and Leon refused.
I do think it’s fair to wonder whether RJ was hearing rumors about being included in a deal (not necessarily for OG) and that he was pressing a bit because of it. But either way, a deal for OG without including RJ wouldn’t make much sense.
And count me among those who think that we dodged a bullet with DJM going to the Lakers instead of overpaying for him. I don’t think he is a good fit here, not while we have a coach who prefers a non-shooter at C.
what is making you smile today E?
it’s raining out here, it’s nice, i planted some different vines on the trellis i recently got…planted 4 different kinds – that’s sort of been my approach to my garden – keep it a bit wild…
been working on my neighbor’s patio recently – i’m setting it up totally different…it’ll be really organized looking…
debating on whether to pick up the boys…i think i really need to surround myself in silence for a bit…sometimes not speaking for a while is easier for me…noticed that earlier this year…most likely i’ll stay home and just be silent for awhile…
I guess this is E’s way of going on record as saying RJ will see a meaningful efficiency uptick, now that he is free of Julius Randle’s oppression. Noted!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o0G7X35hrdg raptors reporter currently on here talking
brother love
Brand new , never was under another name
And thanks
Where are you guys getting this Murray to Lakers stuff??
Where is the news on this dejounte to lakers stuff
I think it was a prank Woj account…so I guess I still have to fear a move for him…
https://twitter.com/NYPost_Berman/status/1741196331689947175?s=19
If Berman doesn’t like the trade for the Knicks then it must be a good trade for them lol
well educated, i’ll say this…after listening to “bagels” it seems moving quik may have had something to do with keep isaiah…if that’s the case – roster wise – i get it…
i’ll just say – not having quik on the roster is going to take me a while to get used to…
OG you better fucking ball out guy…
Trade is official which means OG and company should definitely be available on Monday.
Speaking of missing IQ, anybody betting on the Obi Revenge Game? I’m sort of doubting it, but I could see Tyrese trying to make it happen. Many leak-out breaks from Hali to Obi for the slam, followed by fuming Thibs time-outs. Could be… amusing…
And this trade is the final nail in the coffin for our Old Testament team.
(For those wondering, Ogugwa means “one who consoles.”)
can not begrudge them for that, i have never been a fan of pc gaming myself…
What the fuck does that mean? RJ’s streakiness wouldn’t have been an issue if he had been a #18 pick?
Don’t discount the possibility of RJ’s typical 2 or 3 weeks of all star basketball in the coming weeks to bring back the lolKnicks hashtag! 😛
For what it’s worth Pelton gave the Knicks an A- while only giving Toronto a C for the trade.
Frank Ntilikina. Cam Reddish. RJ Barrett.
All Knicks who pretty much stunk out the joint as Knicks, yet who have weirdo stans who root for them to succeed on their new teams in the interest of being The Guy Who Was Right On The Internet.
Welcome to the club, Rowan!
okay here is the current situation with dejounte murray…
i think i may have sort of perhaps slightly misstook a like click bait thing to be an actual like message from adrian wojnarowski…
please, do not hurl stones at me…you can if you’d like gently toss strawberries and grapes my way…
Actually we’re the ones banking on improvement. OG has never demonstrated value in the $35mm+ range.
IQ is pretty known. You don’t need a leap from him, just give him more minutes.
Welcome ETW! And maybe Welcome Pablo too! It’s also a new name, right Geo?
Where were you when we were having to endure seasons of 25 wins or less? That’s what i wanna know! 😀
Just a reminder the Knicks offered RJ and IQ and 2 unprotected picks for Mitchell and Ainge rejected it
I think that was the final deal before Ainge went with the cavs deal
“And this trade is the final nail in the coffin for our Old Testament team.”
Malachai is Hebrew for “messenger of God”, so we’re still good.
I find it somewhat offensive for someone to join this blog using the name “Educate_the_weak”.
I’m not mad at you Geo. It means my dream of adding Murray as the final piece of the puzzle is still alive.
OG doesn’t make a Mitchell/Brunson backcourt any more palatable. It’s still too small and problematic.
We need another big wing, not another small guard.
Rose is basically in a hole now… people in new york value names
If the next guy is not a star he was brought in here to get the pitch forks will be out
You might be correct on OG’s monetary value, but imo we are one player away from contention now with a more balanced team that fits together better. As long as they get “that player” at SG and have an open window, overpaying here or there doesn’t matter as much because they will be done building the main pieces. Then it’s just a matter of whether they are good enough, stay healthy, and have a little luck.
RJ, IQ, 2 unprotected and one top 5 protected, yeah.
To be fair to RJ, this team has been using him wrong his whole career. What he is- is a physical SG who can create his own shot given proper spacing. We have used him at PG, SG, and PF on the Knicks. That said, he never adjusted his game to his role and didn’t consistently take advantage of matchups. He was never gonna be a SF we could rely on to switch on defense and make good on his catch and shoot opportunities. Maybe if Randle didn’t evolve the way he has and we had a different type of PF, RJ would have been better on this team. Maybe. He still has to figure out how to make the most out his role. With Brunson, we didn’t need him to try to score 20 a game by getting to the rim. Especially with the way Randle can attack. I honestly look forward to seeing him in a different role with Barnes, Siakam, and IQ flanking him. Neither of those guys are built to take a ton of shots and they give him room to operate. This is his chance. It just sucks that it will come as a Raptor because I like RJ. But make no mistake- RJ absolutely has to take advantage of this move. Had RJ not been the third pick in the draft, we’d feel alot better about his time as a Knick.
I love this trade for both teams and I just know IQ is going to look great in Toronto. On paper, we win the trade by a hair.
“OG doesn’t make a Mitchell/Brunson backcourt any more palatable. It’s still too small and problematic.
We need another big wing, not another small guard.”
Which is why I don’t understand why you don’t like Murray. He seems like a much better fit defensively and can make up for the usage we lose from RJ and IQ. It seems like a no brainer to me.
I like the trade.
A few hours before i put on the Orl-Nyk video to watch it and saw Rj just before the jumpball putting his hands on his head and doing a probable ritual “tightening the screws on his head” move….
Instantly thought….*Not Serious*
Both teams got their *lottery tickets* and both can benefit from this trade.
That’s my impression
If you think RJ struggled here because of spacing then he’s really going to struggle in Toronto.
If the current Knicks had Allan Houston at SG they’d be a championship contender!
What are some non-Mitchell, non-Murray targets we could have in mind? Any ideas? I presume it would be a SG of some sort. Bojan? Caruso?
I know everyone is down on RJ but I wish we had been able to trade Fournier instead bc I would be much more excited if we had RJ & OG as our wings right now.
I def didn’t want rj contract on the books
I’m not too worried about that. RJ will get better, but KP showed high level talent on both sides right away. He was just too thin and weak early on to take advantage (and of course got hurt multiple times). He needed a few years to fill out and learn how to use his height and ability to stretch the floor. RJ will probably slowly improve his shooting and shot selection, but imo there’s not enough there for him to become a two way player we’ll be very upset about trading. I’m interested to see how they use him.
I’d be willing to bet the Knicks are still on the phone looking to use that Fournier contract for something.
I wonder if there is a chance Fournier can sneak back into the rotation now that we will need more scoring punch from the bench.
‘Frank Ntilikina. Cam Reddish. RJ Barrett.’
Nah. I root for Frank because he’s pathetic like a little fawn. Cam and RJ are overprivileged AAU Circuit meatheads.
I am mildly curious to see if RJ finds himself in his hometown. Not expecting it, though, and certainly not rooting for him. I appreciate seeing Cam be Cam while being propped up by LeBron, as it’s a bit like rubbernecking at a car wreck.
And Hubert, no, OG and RJ would be a terrible combo, as RJ would take OG’s time (as well as DVD’s and Hart’s) and still suck.
On the other hand, I have no idea what I’m going to complain about during game threads…
He’s a bad shooter and he’s bad off the ball. He’s been awful in that role for Atlanta and I see no reason to think he wouldn’t be awful here. He’s another combo guard, no bigger than Grimes and just an inch taller than DDV. His defensive reputation is a memory.
Give me Bojan instead. He’s a stopgap but he’s cheap. He can make shots, which we’re really going to need now. You can go big with Brunson-OG-Bojan-Randle-iHart and you can go small with Brunson-DDV-OG-Bojan-Randle.
Then when the actual guy you want is available, you use his salary in the trade.
RJ will continue to suck. IQ will make an All Star team at some point. Book it.
@gkhenman
With IQ and RJ in Canada, Flynn and OG not available, Grimes questionable with a non-covid illness and Jeffries waived to make room for the newcomers, I think Fournier will play tonight…
After tonight I don’t think so. It’s hard to escape from Siberia.
No chance in hell IQ ever makes an All-Star team. There will always be way too many great guards, hell Brunson even this year might not make the All-Star team.
Like everyone here, I’m sad to lose IQ.
This kind of means (even) more minutes for Jalen and Julius, right? Let’s hope they can handle it.
I also hope the Grimes we’ve all been waiting for decides to (finally) show up.
Onward!
IQ will set a career high in points on the first visit to MSG. Book it.
I’d rather have Bogdan than Bojan, given that Atlanta is falling off, maybe we can get him?
Dejounte would have the most value to a team that would use him as a pure PG, with the ball always in his hand. He’s shown he can be productive in that role. As an off-ball guard he is pedestrian.
DJM this season is shooting 38% from 3pt range on 6 attempts per game. Like OG he’s lead the league in steals per game and is only 27yo.
I don’t think he’s the perfect fit but he’d be a pretty good fit, shit when he was traded to Atlanta a bunch of people here mocked the Knicks for signing Brunson instead of trading for Murray.
I think Murray is empty calories. He seems like a bad attitude guy as well, which is not really what you want on a team with Randle featured so prominently. Hawks have gotten worse since he arrived to be paired with an offensively-minded small point guard in Trae.
Saw him against the Knicks in San Antonio a couple years back – got excellent seats because spoiled Spurs fans can’t handle watching a losing team – and he was constantly berating one of his teammates in a visibly nasty way. Personal anecdote means nothing but… please pass. We’re not anywhere near contention with him; there will be better opportunities.
Speculative.
With OG here RJ would finally be the smaller wing. The one year we played RJ as the smaller wing he was very good.
Ever since then all we’ve done is bring in a revolving door of smaller guards that forced RJ to play forward against bigger, stronger wings.
On Toronto where those wings will have to cover Barnes, I suspect he’ll do much better against the smaller wings of the league.
Part of my heartbreak over IQ leaving is he’s just good vibes. Big part of most fun Knicks team of the last 20 years. Hope he does well in TOR.
I think OG makes a potential Brunson/Mitchell backcourt way less of an issue. Like, almost a non-issue.
The problem with it before was it left us vulnerable to teams with just about any kind of perimeter threat, whether it came from the point of attack or the wing. Now OG can get the hardest perimeter assignment, whether it’s an on-ball guard or a wing. He’s that good. That leaves Brunson and Mitchell with whoever remains, which is still less than ideal, but how many teams have enough worrying perimeter threats to exploit it?
The Celtics stand out, but I mean, yeah, we know they’re an absolute behemoth and that’ll be true no matter what our roster looks like.
If we can swing a Mitchell trade and our own Mitchell comes back strong (both big ifs, to be clear), that’s a team worth going all in on IMO. We’d have some of the better players in the game on both sides of the ball. We wouldn’t be odds on favorites, but that can’t be the standard. We’d be a really, really good team that could absolutely contend with a reasonable amount of luck, and on the younger side to boot.
The one year RJ “played” SG the SF was Bullock who is the same height if not slightly less taller than RJ.
I confess I had no idea he was shooting 38% this year but he’s 34% for his career and he’ll probably regress to that soon.
+ infinity
He was my favorite player and there is no non-Knick I will be rooting for harder. I’ve come around on the trade, but we damn well better make this work because Quickley was one of the guys that made us entertaining despite not being contenders.
I think he’ll thrive and an all-star bid isn’t out of the question.
I absolutely love this trade. Yeah, I’ll miss IQ but he was walking. OG is a massive improvement and the Knicks aren’t done.
Achiuwa and Flynn are backups.
I predict the following lineups:
Starters: iHart, Randle, OG, Dante, Brunson
2nd Team: Sims, Achiuwa, Hart, Grimes, Flynn
3rd Team: Taj, Toppin, Fournier, Jeffries, Deuce
The Knicks didn’t give up any of their many 1st round picks. They also still have Fournier. I bet they look to trade for another big piece with their assets. Murray?
As a leading 2021 draft hater, it’s only fair to point out that trading down from 21 to 25 to get Grimes and the DET 2nd we just sent out is looking quite nice.
“After tonight I don’t think so. It’s hard to escape from Siberia.”
Lol. I hope he was able to “stay ready”.
“Give me Bojan instead. He’s a stopgap but he’s cheap. He can make shots, which we’re really going to need now. You can go big with Brunson-OG-Bojan-Randle-iHart and you can go small with Brunson-DDV-OG-Bojan-Randle.”
I know you’ve been high on Bojan, so I watched the Brooklyn vs. Detroit game last week. Bojan was constantly getting cooked on the wing. He could never play for Thibs. Murray has a 55% ts, 38% from 3, assist % of 22, stl% of 2.1 and usage of 24%. I don’t know why things didn’t work out in Atl and I don’t care. He was a two-way 5.4 bpm stud 2 years ago and checks all the boxes including age for the Knicks. I would make a deal for him happen in a heartbeat and call it a day.
I see my typing is a little too slow.
Some RJ stats I hadn’t seen from the Pelton article:
How many teams have more than one threat? Like, all of them.
OG covers one guy. Jalen Brunson, Donovan Mitchell, and Julius Randle have to guard the rest.
No thank you.
Bojan turns 35 in April and can’t stay in front of a turtle. He is still a great shooter and scorer so in general he’d be a nice addition but he’s not a wing player anymore, he’s a small ball PF.
I know the fit with Brunson ain’t perfect but I think we gotta hold it down till the off season and then go all in on Mitchell.
I’ve gone back and forth about this but with Donovan you have three dudes who can get you 50 in any game. Who’s 1,2 and3 is debatable (ok Randle is 3 lol) but we’d truly have a big three with those dudes. And with Mitch and OG, the defense in the starting lineup would be fine. Throw in DDV, hart and iHart off the bench and you got an amazing 8 man playoff rotation.
Would it win a title? Who knows. Definitely would be an outside shot but we’d be in the convo and that’s as close as we’ve been in a long time.
I’m curious to see how that goes also.
Early on I liked the idea of him playing SF because I thought he’d have better luck getting to the rim against slightly slower guys given he’s not that quick, but it didn’t work that way. So it will be interesting to see if he does better overpowering smaller guys.
It would be a huge problem for the rest of the league having to cover Brunson, Mitchell and Randle with a career 38% 3pt shooter in OG also on the floor.
On a side note last night on Netflix I finally watched in its entirety The Wolf of Wall Street, great freaking movie.
There is no way that is true.
I totally agree that this sets the Knicks up perfectly to get Mitchell, I just don’t see the Cavaliers parting with him until they absolutely have to.
There’s a lot of luck in these things. Sometimes things break your way and sometimes they don’t. IMO if we focused more on the value at the time, we’d get less worked up about the things that worked out poorly. This one looks pretty good. We got a bit lucky that Detroit stills sucks this badly and it added a lot of value to that pick. It didn’t have to work out that way. They drafted a lot of young talent, but none of them have really taken off yet.
It’s by no means the final solution. He’s a stopgap whose salary helps us make the final trade.
Don’t underestimate the value of that, btw. Unless we pick up Fournier’s option, we only have a few months to use his salary in a trade.
I agree. I loved it.
The real Jordan Belfort did an interview with Tucker Carlson about the stock market that was released yesterday on Twitter. It was a fun interview. He got into how he got off drugs and cleaned up. It was an interesting part of the interview.
https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1740862759477162304
One of thew new reporters on the Knicks beat
Kris Pursiainen
@krispursiainen
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1h
This trade made the Knicks worse.
When they deal for a star, you’d rather OG than RJ.
You’d like for them to have valued Quickley higher. Given that they didn’t, this made sense.
Their eval of IQ will likely end up being wrong.
It won’t matter when they’re contending.
I was literally just about to note that with RJ gone now, they really need to make a move before the season is up. That’s why a Murray move makes a lot of sense to me, as you can sell Cleveland on Murray as being part of the Mitchell trade next year (the Cavs could then shop Murray elsewhere, or just make it a three-teamer). And if the Mitchell trade never materializes, you still have Murray.
If Quck really balls out for Toronto he’s going to want like 30 million per
Yeah, not only was IQ very good he was good in a very fun way (unlike say Julius). Probably my second favorite Knick behind Mitch, I’m going to miss him.
If he balls out as a way 2 way starting PG he will be worth the risk with his age
Brunson also showed he is quite capable of playing off the ball while he was in Dallas. Murray seems like the perfect fit next to him.
Trae is very ball dominant in a way Brunson isn’t. You do lose something pairing Dejounte with another PG, but he can fill in as a backup PG and higher usage reserve too. From a roster construction standpoint, Murray makes a lot of sense.
Grimes, Fournier and every pick we can throw at them for mikal. Nets aren’t doing shit this season. Do it for the city nets!!!!
If OG finishes the year with a negative BPM we’re going to pay him a lot more.
No, I remember this too.
Trae just sucks to play next to, I imagine. I have no worry about fit with Murray, I only worry about his defense slipping. You have to hope it’s just a probem with fit, but it’s at least somewhat concerning.
I’m trying to rationalize it as a buy low opportunity, but it really does concern me too
I don’t want to give up much for him
I have a cousin and some friends in Toronto. They are actually happy about the trade. Suckers!!! Toronto was probably the only place we could dump RJ.
FYI Mikal is having a pretty bad year so far: -0.3 BPM, .360 from deep, .5 VORP…
Unless you can get him for cheap, I wouldn’t risk it.
Honestly I think OG seems like the perfect fit next to Brunson. Let’s keep him there and continue to get bigger. Go all in with an even bigger wing in the Paul George/Kawhi Leonard mold and slot him between OG and Randle. That’s the ultimate move.
Or fuck it… just get LeBron! I’m kinda kidding but the Lakers seem cooked and I bet the guy has 2-3 more great seasons in him.
Grimes is out. Time for Archie to step up. 😀
This was exactly what the Knicks needed. We added size and defensive intensity. Everyone is broken up over losing IQ, but he was a no-show in the playoffs.
No to Lebron bc I don’t want the first Knicks title in forever be all about how it’s Lebron’s last title before he retired and he was the one who brought a title to the knicks. Fuck that.
Yeah I was thinking that about Trae too. He’s way more ball dominant than Brunson and I could see it getting real old playing with him quick.
Dejonte would be a less expensive all in move that would maybe leave us with some picks to use for actually drafting players lol.
Some quick notes on the guys we got back.. i’ll probably write some more on them in the coming days….
Malachi Flynn – i liked him out of college… he projected to be a much better shooter but it just hasn’t materialized… everything else is sort of there except his dribble drive is not where it needs to be but it’s loads better than McBride… who he’ll likely replace… he’s a stereotypical fringe backup guard that needs a few percentage points on his 3pt shot to be a steady rotation guy…. not much upside here and i imagine we’ll draft someone (hopefully) to fill this slot next year…
Precious Achiuwa – probably the most interesting guy in the trade…. he’s the PF version of RJ so if you think you got rid of the maddening guy who’s taking ill advised shots.. think again! he hasn’t changed much from college… he’s got good length and he’s active.. except he’s clumsy… has a very slow load ala kevin knox and james wiseman.. which means his length is a bit muted and plays much more below the rim than you’d think from his highlight reel… if he can be contained and asked to play within himself that will mean big things for him as he’s at his best finishing plays instead of the odd things he’ll do every now and then…. he’s an ok but not great defender but he’s better than Taj so that’s a plus…
OG Anunoby – he headlines this trade and i’m not high on him…. he was seeing his usg and his assisted 2pt fg% decline as soon as Barnes came aboard… and i don’t expect it to get better with Brunson and Randle who’s usg are higher than both Siakam and Barnes… fwiw here are the #s…
Anunoby USG/Assisted 2pt fg% last 3 years
2021 – 20.5/.464
2022 – 19.5/.566
2023 – 18.1/.729
those #s mimic donte’s numbers almost exactly so if you’re looking for the guy to create offense… he’s not that guy… meanwhile we have RJ’s 27 usg and IQ’s 24 usg headed out the door so there is a very large vacuum created and there’s not many easy answers … no Grimes is not that guy either….
for those reasons… some of our defense’s holes get mitigated… mainly the Taj one.. we have another option to matchup against the better teams in the league with big wings…. i think our defense probably finishes somewhere in the mid teens… instead of late teens and the 20s..
our offense tho probably tanks… and just like our defense it was already trending downwards due to the 3pt shooting… and we saw some of that in the Orlando game… but i just don’t see it sustaining anything beyond league average without some really really hot hart-like shooting from multiple players….
this is not a season saver…. the long term implications are much more interesting and this doesn’t work without that next piece falling into place and remains to be seen if that’s even happening….
Agreed, but this move definitely does put them into the pole position of getting someone like Mitchell (who obviously wants to come here, the only way he won’t is if the Cavs become a true title contender, which sure as heck doesn’t seem to be happening), and while I don’t think this team even with Mitchell is, like, a top team in the Conference, it’s close enough for them to be legit possibilities for the Conference Finals for a few years, and we haven’t seen a Knicks team like that for over twenty years, ya know?
I gotta give it up to Rose for finally making a true bold move.
“On a side note last night on Netflix I finally watched in its entirety The Wolf of Wall Street, great freaking movie.”
Yes. Amazing. I watched that this week. Imagine him running the team. Oh wait I don’t really have to. Have we actually turned a corner there? I mean, has Leon earned our trust?
There’s a distinctly nonzero chance Leon got taken to the cleaners.
Precious showed glimpses of the same dynamics that Naz Reid has taken to another level. It’s a worthwhile gamble.
i mean this trade makes the Mitchell deal much more difficult… who is getting traded to match salaries for Mitchell now? and it’s not going to work without a sign and trade….
The rollercoaster ride of E going from “I believe in RJ! He’s got moxie!” to “RJ sucks! I never want to see him on the team again!” to “Leon is an idiot for trading the brilliant RJ!” has really been something to witness over the past week. My goodness.
They don’t even have anybody to trade for Mitchell anymore.
Leon traded Quickley too.
Wasn’t Josh Hart supposed to be the rugged defensive stopper? And Quentin Grimes? Thibs has apparently cornered the market.
I agree that without another move, it’ll be harder, but that’s why I think they’re definitely making another move this season.
it’s a big part of what we do around here