[New York Post] – Fri, 22 Dec 2023 00:53:00 GMT
- Becky Hammon absolutely shades Jalen Brunson, Knicks’ title chances: ‘Don’t have a dude’
- Becky Hammon, Kendrick Perkins Argue If Jalen Brunson Is ‘Too Small’
- New York Knicks: Becky Hammon Backs, Clarifies Jalen Brunson Analysis
- NBA Today analysts debate whether Knicks have a dude to carry team
- Becky Hammon Defends Her Criticism of Knicks’ Jalen Brunson: Not a ‘1A Tier Player’
[New York Post] – Thu, 21 Dec 2023 22:24:00 GMT
- Julius Randle’s wife shades Knicks forward’s All-Star doubters
- Knicks’ Julius Randle: NBA All-Star Game Starter?
- Jalen Brunson: 2024 All-Star Game Starter?
- 3 Knicks players who deserve consideration for 2024 All-Star spot
- Julius Randle’s wife dismisses his critics and tells fans to vote him into the All-Star game as Knicks forward
[hoopsrumors.com] – Thu, 21 Dec 2023 23:21:00 GMT
Atlantic Notes: Knicks Frontcourt, Skapintsev, Embiid, Harris, Smith
[New York Post] – Thu, 21 Dec 2023 13:20:00 GMT
Zion Williamson, Ja Morant, RJ Barrett and 2019 NBA Draft, in review
[Marca] – Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:01:21 GMT
- Travis Scott spills his drink courtside during a Brooklyn Nets vs New York Knicks game
- Ian Eagle had a ball with Travis Scotts drink exploding at Nets game
- Travis Scott’s Drink Explodes After He’s Hit By Loose Ball During Nets Game
- Nets Announcer Had Perfect Call of Travis Scott’s Drink Getting Crushed By Loose Ball
- Despair for Travis Scott as rapper’s drink EXPLODES at courtside after being hit by the ball during Knicks and
[Posting and Toasting] – Thu, 21 Dec 2023 21:00:00 GMT
Recap of the Knicks four-game swing through the Western Conference
[Posting and Toasting] – Thu, 21 Dec 2023 17:46:04 GMT
Who Wore it (Second) Best? Knicks #7
[ClutchPoints] – Thu, 21 Dec 2023 07:14:26 GMT
Knicks’ Julius Randle fires hilarious Josh Hart double-double take
[New York Post] – Fri, 22 Dec 2023 03:42:00 GMT
- Knicks’ Isaiah Hartenstein taking center stage: ‘I can be in this role’
- Knicks’ Jericho Sims To Miss Time With Ankle Injury
- Assessing the Knicks massive frontcourt depth issue
- Is Jericho Sims playing tonight? Latest injury update for Knicks vs Nets Dec. 20
- Should the Knicks start Isaiah Hartenstein at center or stay with Jericho Sims?
[New York Post] – Thu, 21 Dec 2023 12:40:00 GMT
How much patience should we have for Jets, Yankees, Knicks?
[New York Post] – Thu, 21 Dec 2023 07:50:00 GMT
- Knicks star Julius Randle’s physicality too much for Nets
- Brooklyn Nets thumped by New York Knicks in depressing blowout
- Knicks Taking Over the Crosstown Rivalry, and Bas on His New Album
- Knicks 121-102 Nets (Dec 20, 2023) Game Recap
- Late dunk seals bettor’s nearly $22K win in Knicks-Nets parlay
[New York Post] – Fri, 22 Dec 2023 07:10:00 GMT
Jacque Vaughn considering changes in Nets’ starting lineup
75 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.12.22)”
James Wiseman wouldn’t get 1 minute of playing time for Thibs. Not even those last 48 seconds when the Knicks are up 30 and Thibs decides the game is secure enough to take the starters out.
Swifty said:
Wait, we agree on this now?
Yeah I think so. I honestly think most of our arguments stem not from where we are now but how we got here and what people think is possible from here. I tend to think the ability to take the next step or two is definitely possible. Others think we’re stuck and blame that on how we built the team to this point.
Even when we sucked, everyone here knew that going from playoff team to finals contender is the hardest step in the NBA. And honestly, I don’t blame Dolan for “settling” for a playoff team that simply brings in tons of extra revenue, although he must be itching for a more marketable star, even with Brunson being pretty close to that. It’s just a shame that all we have to show for a decade of rancid basketball is RJ Barrett.
I’d have to see a new coach and a modernized offense before reaching these levels of pessimism. The turfing of non-centers’ TS%s and 2PT%s under Thibs is undeniable, as is the general low-ceilingness he brings to the enterprise.
With Thibs here, yeah this is it. Comfortable for Thibs — his guys; comfortable for Leon — continued big paychecks; comfortable for Dolan — perpetually filled building, playoff gates for his public shareholders. All the people that matter, fat and happy.
I do, too. And I even think we can take significant steps without trading for a superstar.
In the spirit of Christmas, let’s just leave it at that and enjoy the common ground.
note that goga got a flat out dnp last night. he’s also an ufa at year-end. might not be as hard to get as it seems.
i think this is more a recent development than anything thanks to the mitch injury… there were literally people a couple days ago who thought we were right below contender status…
I don’t think I’d be willing to give Orlando anything for Goga that would make it worth their while.
I’d do Miles McBride and Utah’s 2nd, for instance. But I wouldn’t do Grimes and I wouldn’t do the Detroit 2nd.
I’ve been triggered by The Ringer’s Christmas Day preview. Apparently the assignment was “troll Knicks fans.”
The final word:
How about inventing the entire tradition of Christmas Day games in the first place? If the Detroit Lions can play every Thanksgiving, the Knicks can play every Christmas and you can shut the fuck up.
But I wouldn’t do Grimes and I wouldn’t do the Detroit 2nd.
yeah i mean you can’t give elon’s ex or the 31st pick for a pending ufa 3rd string 24 year old 5. but if he continues to barely play and is going to leave anyway and there’s no better bidder, they might eventually let him go for lesser 2nd round trinkets just to mollify jeff schwartz for when jokic goes free agent in 2034.
Both the Ringer and ESPN love coming up with these asinine takes to rile up Knicks fans because of clicks and ratings. Other teams with similar and worse records have flaws but let’s pile on the LOLKnicks narrative.
That segment with Becky Hammon the other day was bizzare. It’s as if the producers were like, “what can say about the Knicks best player to diminish his accomplishments. Hmmm try “he ain’t that dude” and “he’s too short”
That is incredibly dumb. The Xmas day games are the 8 semi-conference finalists from last year plus the Bucks and the Mavs.
Maybe the team that tanked their way out of the play-in shouldn’t make it.
Meanwhile, the NFL is basically giving a big fuck you to the NBA by scheduling 2 games on Christmas Day.
Both games will likely be lopsided losses for the Raiders and Giants, but they’ll still destroy the NBA ratings-wise.
I don’t like Simmons, but this seems like an obvious trade: https://heavy.com/sports/new-york-knicks/barrett-anunoby-trade/
If Goga really could be had…I could be convinced to send them the Pistons’ second if there was literally no other asset attached (doable with the Obi TPE, I think).
The Jazz 2nd isn’t that much worse, and while the (excellent, FWIW) numbers this year come from too small a sample size to care much about, he’s always struck me as a pretty capable player who unfortunately keeps finding himself on teams with an entrenched center.
The counterpoint is it may well be a pure rental because I don’t think we’d have any kind of bird rights. It’s a close call but I’m probably okay with trading a very good 2nd to keep the team competitive this year. Who knows, maybe EPM et al. are correct and we’d be getting a guy in the midst of a genuine breakout.
Thibs is a loyal guy and he actually likes Simms. Both as a good introvert kid that works hard and as a rim runner type talent potential.
Think he will plug Taj for next two weeks & give Simms another shot before he tells Leon to move forward with Goga type replacement. This would mean they gave up on Simms and his spot on this team is done.
Hollinger actually wrote about Goga this morning and said Orlando has his Early Bird rights. I presume those would transfer to us, no?
Speaking of EB rights… that’s all we have on iHart, right? Means the max we can offer him is around $14mm. It’s possible he might earn more if he looks good in an extended run playing 30 mins/night.
I suppose as a rental plus an insurance policy against iHart leaving or Mitch staying injured, and in conjunction with the unfortunately high probability that Leon would magically turn the coveted 31st pick into ash, it could make sense to give it up for him.
IMO, a reasonable way of thinking about it is to look at our trade and draft capital compared to the teams better than us and ask whether we have more assets to work with than them to try to close the gap.
If we do, then it’s a matter of transitioning those excess assets into players that help us close the gap.
If we don’t, hat means the other team is positioned better than us.
There are no age and bad contract issues for this team. The window is wide open. So we have time to do what must be done.
IMO, these disagreements are mostly about some people preferring the all out multi year tank approach hoping for lottery and draft selection luck to eventually get the ball rolling vs. using all avenues of team building to get there like we have.
IMO the data suggests it doesn’t matter much which way. It’s a matter of execution and luck, not path.
From my vantage point, I’d say the one team that is probably better than us, has more upside, and that has a better stockpile of assets to get even better is OKC. Presti appears to be both a draft and management genius.
Most other teams that are better than us don’t have as many assets to work with. They’ve used some of them to get where they are.
I think we are still positioned well. We just have to be patient and hope the “execute intelligently”.
I have to agree with Director, Sims will get another shot. I hope Taj can mentor him a bit while he’s here.
We’d have early bird rights on Goga, but that might not be enough to re-sign him.
Because Goga’s salary is so low, the highest offer is 105% of this year’s average NBA salary, whereas iHarts EB rights are for 175% of his current salary.
Unless management has given up on Mitch because they think he’s too injury prone (or for some other reason), we are not looking to trade for another Mitch or I-Hart quality player using valuable assets. That would make more sense if we were a contender right now trying to win the championship this year. We are looking for someone that can just hold down the fort this year. We don’t want to give up much because he’s probably going to be gone next year when Mitch is back. We certainly don’t need Mitch, I-Hart and another equivalent to them on the roster next year. The only exception I can think of would be multiple trades. If they brought in wing player that was an obvious upgrade then we’d have a more serious team that could make a lot of noise and even get lucky. Then we wouldn’t want to screw around with some throwaway backup. It might make sense to give up some assets to get a good C and worry about any surplus quality Cs we have next year.
That’s roughly equal to the non-taxpayer MLE, though, and that’s probably beyond the ceiling for Goga.
@gkhenman – so Simmons is suggesting what I first proposed 2 years ago and argued strenuously for 18 months ago before we extended RJ? Cool.
As for Goga, if he could be a go-go, we need to get him. I hate to say it, but the chances of Mitch playing a full season are minute at this point. I would love to be wrong, just as I’ve been hoping to be wrong about RJ for 3 years, but the reality is that those kinds of injuries with big men USUALLY mean short careers and missed games. Even if we retain Hartenstein, he may be our starter a lot of the time, and Sims is not an adequate backup. The fact that he stuck in the league at #58 is already great, but he’s third string, without clear indications he could handle real playing time. We will need someone else even in the rosiest scenario. And as people have pointed out, we may not be able to retain iHart, depending how things go the rest of the year.
If you get can get Goga for a non-Detroit 2nd, I think you do that no questions asked. He’s been great this year and, like TNFH has said, has been just stuck in tough situations prior to Orlando. While he is a UFA this offseason, I think we’ll get a little equity w/r/t resigning just by being his incumbent team, especially since we’re a good team with frequent injuries at C. Like Hubert mentioned, I-Hart may become too rich for us quite soon, and Sims is not even really a third-string guy in the NBA–he’s pretty putrid.
Ditto the above thoughts for Xavier Tillman, who is on the outside of the rotation in Memphis. Those would be my choices to fill the backup center role and I’d prefer them to Drummond or Noel (though I think the latter two options aren’t terrible–just less exciting and lower upside.)
It’s still amazing that Noel is out of the league at 29 and turned down that huge contract from Dallas. Ouch.
RJ for OG would be an obviously good trade for us, if OG could be extended obviously. OG is really the kind of piece you need in today’s game and I think he’d be a really popular Knick. Where do I sign up for that?
OG is the kind of player every contender needs. I can’t imagine a world where RJ Barrett is the best offer for him. I hear the Sixers, for instance, are prepared to back up the truck for him (and man does he fit them like a glove).
You sign on the bottom of the “in case the entire Raptors ownership/management group gets bought out by Straight Shot Entertainment, Inc.” form.
Ah, didn’t realize Goga was on Orlando last year too. So yeah, we’d have his EB rights which would likely get it done if we did want to re-sign him.
I guess we could take our pick between him and iHart/have Goga serve as iHart insurance on the off chance iHart gets an offer above what we can pay him with his own EB rights (doubtful but possible IMO).
Thibs claims nothing has changed with regards to our internal outlook on Mitch’s injury, so uh, I guess we should hope Leon just made a frivolous DPE application?
i don’t think OG is a great piece…. he’s regressed on the offensive side and has become mostly off ball oriented… in our offense that means more usg for both brunson and randle…
he’s a great piece if we can somehow land mitchell together… OG should not be replacing RJ but actually replacing donte/grimes…. you still need someone with usg in the lineup because you have so many of these role players who rely on others to create for them…
Spot on on OG’ role but you may have overlooked IQs role. Think IQ is actually a better fit than DM. You move RJ to that 24 minute a game role with Grimes, Hart and DDV.
But DJ, in the (extremely unlikely) scenario of an RJ-for-OG swap, we’d have at least one, often two, and sometimes three of Julius, Jalen, or IQ on the floor at all times to help create for the role players. And DDV and Hart can create for themselves at least a bit, former more than latter. The good version of RJ does create for others, too, but the good version tends to make extended cameos and then vanish for long stretches. For that matter, getting an OG type probably makes it easier to justify starting — and, thus, keeping — Quickley, because we’ve got a great big wing defender in the starting lineup, as opposed to RJ, who can at times defend well but is in no way a stopper.
Here’s an article from Spotrac on the DPE: https://www.spotrac.com/spots/what-is-the-nba-disabled-player-exception-1670/
So even if the application isn’t frivolous, we could potentially get Mitch back. The chances won’t be good we get him back, but it could hinge on what they deem “substantially more likely”, is that 60/40 or 95/5?
Can’t hurt to make the application even if it’s unlikely to be granted.
Yeah the recent ESPN bashing of us has been kind of ridiculous.
So I guess there’s no reason to be good at all unless your can guarantee that you’ll be in the finals, right? And a team can never go from good to very good to great. Like fuck off already. You don’t do this to other “middling” teams. We’re a good team. We got some good players. Our work isn’t done. Fuck you!
I’m bummed about Mitch, but it doesn’t mean he will always have foot issues. A counter example is Kevin Durant who had foot surgery for a fracture and had screws installed in 2015 and then a second surgery to change the type of screw. He’s still playing eight years later.
“I’m bummed about Mitch, but it doesn’t mean he will always have foot issues. A counter example is Kevin Durant who had foot surgery for a fracture and had screws installed in 2015 and then a second surgery to change the type of screw. He’s still playing eight years later.”
Yeah but this isn’t Mitch’s first or second injury-impacted year. He seems pretty brittle in the Carpal/Metacarpal/Tarsal/Metatarsal regions. But I agree that if, if, if he can get through this he can be sort of 100% and could have a long career…it’s not like the knee cartilage stuff that Timelord is dealing with, or Amar’e. But foot/ankle stuff can be pretty chronic as well. We’ll see.
a wrinkle in time
https://x.com/nbeinstein/status/1738254129384804516?s=46
“@gkhenman – so Simmons is suggesting what I first proposed 2 years ago and argued strenuously for 18 months ago before we extended RJ? Cool.”
I’ve been banging the OG drum for years myself, but I think it is more notable that someone in the national media is bringing it up. I also think we have a leg up on the competition because his agent is Leon’s son and he will be a free agent at the end of this season. If he wants to come to the Knicks, all he has to do is refuse to sign an extension with anyone else. He’s in the driver’s seat. I think RJ and a pick now makes more sense for Toronto than losing him a la FVV last year or the JB Fiasco for Dallas. I’m feeling more like it’s a realistic possibility after seeing the idea floated by Simmons.
Just because a doctor declares you out for the year doesn’t mean Thibs won’t play you.
I also think it’s significant that Simmons is saying zero plus a pick should be a good trade for them. Get it done Leon! Throw in a dropped lawsuit if you need to!
One of the issues with OG in Toronto is that he wants a bigger role in the offense. That makes it sound like RJ would have to be in the deal to keep him happy in NY. He would take over RJ’s role in the offense as a high usage 3rd option.
As I keep saying he can also play some backup PF and solve that issue with a little more length and bigger role.
The cost is probably going to be higher than any of us are comfortable with for a guy that’s not going to blow us out of the water. However, imo we need 2 upgrades (SF and SG). As long as we have enough left to swing another deal (I think we should), that’s fine.
We were all hoping that RJ would grow into one of those roles. He may still do that on offense over time, but he’s never going to give us the extra length and defense that OG give us.
That leaves SG. Again, we were hoping Grimes would grow into that role, but so far this year it looks like he hasn’t made much progress.
We could wind up with Brunson, Mitchell, OG, Randle and Mitch.
Another possibility is Ingram. I mentioned him last week. He is not fully committed to New Orleans, but he probably wouldn’t be available until the summer or NEXT trade deadline.
You have no idea how badly I needed a laugh tonight! I’m under extreme pressure with family issues. Unfortunately I had to medicate myself for the first time in a long time. Thank you for making me laugh.
😊
some folks may look at thibs’ statement as somewhat dissociated from reality…
sometimes though, circumstances may force you to seem a little resolute, inflexible, stubborn, hard-headed in order to simply maintain, and/or progress…
Edit: cliff notes for doogie…i’m having a tough moment with my friend, whom I’d like to come stay with me…
she sees me as not so open to input from others, my issue is i get very frustrated with hypothetical conversations…
i react even worse when people do that “devil’s advocate” thing with me…
maybe thibs just doesn’t really feel like talking about it, and is just saying: whatever
P and T says we are interested in an IQ for Dejounte swap. That’s the wrong Murray to trade for says Jowles.
I would do that trade.
Continue to corner the market on 6’5” guys… smart.
I think DJM would complement JB better than Trae.
here’s a very possibly data-mined random lineup tidbit:
since the hart trade, lineups with iq and hart plus at least one of randle or brunson have played 1257 possessions (627 minutes) with a gaudy +17.2/100 net rating.
“P and T says we are interested in an IQ for Dejounte swap. That’s the wrong Murray to trade for says Jowles.”
Who is the *right* one? Keegan or Jamal? I think you must mean Keegan.
He was big on Keegan. Thought of him because of his big night.
I am obviously a no on that deal
Easily Dejounte over Keegan, although that still leaves us with combo guards (Brunson and Dejounte) rather than having a true PG. Dejounte is good enough at a lot of things that it might work, though—he’s certainly better/more proven than RJ, at this point. The question is whether or not he’s better than IQ. I might say that he is, especially based on how IQ is being used. But put Dejounte in the starting lineup, and I think we’ve got something.
I’d rather give RJ and some other stuff to get Dejounte. Yes, a whole bunch of combo guards (IQ, Dejounte, and Brunson) would be left on our squad, for sure, but a *really good* collection of combo guards.
So RJ and picks for OG and then IQ and picks for Murray?
Brunson, murray, OG, Randle, IHart
McBride, DDV, grimes, hart, taj
I mean if we’re gonna lost IQ and want to move on from RJ I don’t hate it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dejounte and IQ are probably about as productive as each other but one of them is a lot more expensive. Seems like a weird trade to make
Everything I like about that trade proposal is predicated on putting Dejounte in the starting lineup, which for whatever reason we’re clearly not going to do with IQ. If, however, we were going to do something truly stupid such as acquiring a proven starter like Dejounte and putting him on the second unit, then fuck no.
How expensive will IQ be?
I really like the idea of Murray, he has the size to play next to Brunson and can handle backup PG duties.
And yet, he could clog our spacing. Despite having a good year from 3, and his ft% is up near 85%, he’s been a poor 3pt shooter historically on mediocre volume.
Plus it exacerbates the minutes issue. There’s no way you play Dejounte less than 30mpg.
DJM is a really good 2-way player.
Dejounte is actually a real point guard and a great defender, both of which would be nice additions to our starting lineup.
He’s not a great shooter, although he seems to be improving from three.
But yes, he’s only an inch or two taller than Quickley and much more expensive (for now at least), so idk why we do that trade. It doesn’t seem ideal for Hotlanta either tbh.
I think the argument would be that Dejounte’s offensive numbers as a PG for the Spurs crush IQs. His numbers have been a lot lower since sharing duties with Trae.
Brunson would function more as a SG in that lineup, which might fit his skillet better. We’d still feature Brunson a lot in the halfcourt and hopefully draw up some sets to get open looks off the ball.
It definitely might fit his skillet better. Murray can be the spatula.
A lot of times if you get two players who play similar roles it doesn’t add up the way you hope, for example, Amare and Melo. But sometimes it works well, like Clyde and Pearl. I think Murray and Brunson could be more like the latter, but to it’s hard to predict
every time i watch a kings game it looks like keegan is getting closer and closer to being the best player on their roster…
and they have some really good players…
edit: just looked at keegan/dejounte stat comparison – so much for the eye test…still, i really like keegan…
I laughed at the Knicks for being locked into the Brunson tamper when Dejounte became available, but it has worked out fine for them. Murray’s already-reached ceiling is higher than Quickley’s (Quickley will never average 21, 9, 8.5 while leading the league in steals); however, because he’s not a great shooter, it’s a bit antithetical to pair him with an already entrenched PG (like Tre and potentially Brunson).
Westchester Knicks just won what I guess is the G League version of the In Season Tournament.
I swear I fixed that
It was more fun that you didn’t.
Not for nothing but Brunson can play off ball really well too. He did so in Dallas with Luka and he’s an even better 3 point shooter than he was then. I think it could work and dejounte would be a frame at guard to pair with him defensively.
If this is true, and that’s a big if, one wonders what the Knicks motivation was and where their relation with IQ stands at this point. Murray is making 18 million this season and is owed about 115 million for the next four years. If the Knicks are willing to take up Murray’s contract, either IQ turned down a similar offer or the Knicks don’t value him as much.
Dejounte has that one season as a monster boxscore stuffer with huge assist, rebound, and steal numbers, surrounded by a bunch of seasons where he looks like an anodyne combo guard. He’s a good defender any way you slice it, and he did have 9 assists per game one year as a lead guard in San Antonio, but we’re not really much of a passing team so we’d be wasting a lot of that passing ability. He wouldn’t be having a 40 AST% season with this offense, that’s for sure.
Atlanta doesn’t seem to be the right situation for him as the ball is always in Trae’s hands. He’s been underwhelming as a Hawk. He’d be best suited for a team that needs a lead guard I think. He can play like a pure point guard, he has done it successfully on the NBA level. I’m not sure NYK is really the best situation for him either but I dunno, maybe it could work.
In Philly next to Maxey would be perfect. I really hope that doesn’t happen.
I can’t see ATL send him to a EC contender. It’s WC or a rebuild team like Detroit or Washington. Interesting to see if they can get their two picks back for or Pop sold him at peak market value.