[news.google.com] — Sunday, October 15, 2023 5:26:00 AM
Tom Thibodeau’s joking response to Jeff Van Gundy’s new job: ‘Disgusting’ New York Post
[news.google.com] — Sunday, October 15, 2023 3:20:20 AM
Evan Fournier marque 15 points en pr?saison NBA avec les New … L’?quipe
[news.google.com] — Sunday, October 15, 2023 1:54:20 AM
Timberwolves 121-112 Knicks (15 Oct, 2023) Final Score ESPN Australia
[news.google.com] — Sunday, October 15, 2023 12:39:14 AM
Celtics’ Kristaps Porzingis Reflects On Growth From Knicks Days NESN
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 11:52:00 PM
Hawks, Timberwolves win again to improve to 3-0 in the NBA … The San Diego Union-Tribune
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 11:25:36 PM
Naz Reid Cooks New York Knicks with 22 Points | Highlights and … Bleacher Report
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 10:34:00 PM
Josh Hart shows how vital he is in Knicks’ preseason loss New York Post
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 10:25:02 PM
Knicks lose to Wolves but game is still on for Karl-Anthony Towns New York Daily News
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 10:20:39 PM
Minnesota 121, N.Y. Knicks 112 | Pro Sports | wvnews.com WV News
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 10:07:30 PM
RJ Barrett Busy, But New York Knicks Bitten By Minnesota … Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 9:54:53 PM
Former Knicks and Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy joins Celtics as senior consultant months after being shockingl Daily Mail
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 8:48:00 PM
Knicks practicing lineup with pair of 7-footers: ‘I like having that flexibility there’ Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 8:37:28 PM
Knicks trade rumors: New York monitoring Karl-Anthony Towns’ situation with Timberwolves, per report CBS SportsKnicks Monitoring Karl-Anthony Towns Situation RealGM.comTimberwolves 121, Knicks 112: Scenes from slop city Posting and Toasting
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 4:57:12 PM
New York Knicks 2023-24 depth chart: Starters and backups Hoops Hype
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 4:55:09 PM
New York Knicks 2023-24 depth chart: Starters and backups Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 4:08:14 PM
How playing with the Timberwolves has rejuvenated Mike Conley Star Tribune
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 1:30:00 PM
New York Knicks vs. Minnesota Timberwolves: How to watch, stream NBA Preseason tonight syracuse.com
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 12:54:50 PM
Celtics Hire Former Knicks Coach Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 11:32:07 AM
Report: Jaden McDaniels out vs. Knicks, could miss regular-season … Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 11:27:43 AM
Tom Thibodeau Loves ‘Everything!’ About New York Knicks Sixth … Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 11:13:12 AM
New York Knicks’ Julius Randle Shares Significance Behind Jersey … Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 10:46:35 AM
Knicks ‘Monitoring’ Karl-Anthony Towns Trade; Should Luka … Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 9:51:36 AM
Knicks’ three biggest strengths ahead of the 2023-24 season Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 9:32:00 AM
Knicks Injury Tracker: Josh Hart ‘nicked up,’ but will probably play Saturday Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Saturday, October 14, 2023 8:00:09 AM
3 Non-guaranteed players who could make final Knicks roster Daily Knicks
57 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.10.15)”
It’s preseason even for me, so it’s time for the hottest hot takes!
I joke, it’s preseason so it’s time to take everything with nonchalance, because nothing matters…
But I’m a fan(atical) so at the same time I try to parse every single moment of this meaningless games to get a hint about what the future will held.
I’m a fervent proponent of roster continuity and team chemistry and I’m still astonished by how much most of yesterday’s game felt like a march/april 2023 game, but if you squint you maybe can see a little difference here, a small detail there.
We know that, barring a star trade, we’re betting a lot on internal growth and familiarity, so let’s see if there are clues about it.
Meaningless Notes:
– In a year or so Leon has taken home 4 pieces of my personal “ballers” roster: JB, J-Hart, I-Hart and now DDV.
Come on Leon, go get me Kenrich Williams (clap-clap-clap clap clap) and I’ll talk with your owner/guitarist about your contract extension…
– DDV is a pest on defense, with quick and active hands, we’re gonna love him…
– To me IQ still struggles a bit finding the right balance when he plays PG. It’s the most difficult position to learn so he still has time.
– Mitch’s very good at Mitch’s things. Can he hit free throws better after his 6th professional offseason of work? We’ll know it soon.
– Nobody’s worried about JB but is someone just a little bit worried about Julius after his invisible first half, especially in the context of “we don’t have another “4””? (My answer: I’m always worried about Julius… š ).
– I’m not into gossip or celebrities, but Glue Grimes needs to date a model, actress or something like that, he’s too shy even for preseason games! Maybe I-Hart can give him some hints… š
– If you missed the FIBA World Cup now you know, Fournier can still play or at least shoot.
Maybe not much, maybe not every game, but can he help against a zone?
Yes, he’s a Designated Shooter, but as far as Designated go you can do much worse than him (just ask the Yankees about Stanton…)
– Deuce claims he worked a lot on his shot this summer and yesterday after talking the talk he walked the walk, even if it was garbage time.
Deuce McBride Sharpshooter Extraordinarie would really be something to watch.
Today’s Spotlight:
It’s on our cross (often) and delight (sometimes): RJ Barrett.
After 4 years we know him. He has his moments (a.k.a. “RJ’s minutes”), he has his good to very good quarters and games where he looks like a 3rd pick, he has his lumps (during games) and slumps (for weeks).
What Big Blue Al rightly called “the full RJ experience”. š
We know he’s not a natural shooter and he’s streaky as hell, so a bit of rollercoasting from outside the paint has to be expected.
But we also know he’s never afraid and, for those of us who believe in soft skills, he has the “clutch gene”.
At the end of the day I can live with him as the 3rd/4th option if his missed shots aren’t forced and come in the flow of the game, his turnovers aren’t of the brain freeze category but happen trying to make sound plays and if he gives a damn on defense.
Yesterday he attacked the rim with confidence, in a couple of plays he passed the ball where last year he would lose it, he rarely went against a wall just to be blocked and never fell asleep or moved like he’s stuck in the mud.
And he’s shooting his FTs well, something that could net him easily a couple o’more points in every games.
If he can steadily be this kind of player maybe we could file this as “internal growth”.
If….
Edit:
I wasn’t aware Trevor Keels was on the Wolves’ bench, I’m a little angry at Finch for not playing him…
Maybe we could’ve set the record for the shortest video tribute ever…
Now you’ve gone and done it, Max, and prompted me to wonder who has had the shortest tenure in modern Knicks history? I’m not talking about someone who got cut in training camp, or who got released immediately after a trade without playing a regular season minute for us. Nor do I mean someone who sat on the bench for a few games but never played. I mean a guy who was in one game, or a few games, but for a small number of minutes, and then never played for us again. Wes Matthews is the first to come to mind, but I’m sure someone has him beat.
Wes Matthews was indeed a very strange case. He actually played two games for us, and started one of them, shooting 21% from the field for his tenure.
In 2021-22 Matt Mooney and Tyler Hall did play 2 minutes each*.
It’ll be hard to beat!
Kuzminskas played 2 in 2017-18 too and Chris Smith did it in 2013-14.
* In the same year Danuel House Jr. played 3. He did play 800-plus minutes for the Sixers last year, so he’s definitively an NBA player…
danuel house and jimmer both had pretty short knick careers
So now we must find the players that did play 1 minute in a season š
JamesOn Curry’s career with the Celtics was 3.9 seconds in length. That is the shortest ever, for any team. By the way, since it was less than 30 seconds, he officially shows up in NBA records as having played 1 game, but 0 minutes—there are two other players with that scenario, but none with less than Curry’s 3.9 seconds. I don’t know what the NBA does if a player plays *exactly* 30 seconds in a game, but I believe that they round up in that case.
Yes, I know that doesn’t answer the question currently on the table. But I did think that it was interesting.
McKinley Singleton?
Carey Scurry?
Scurry wins between those two. He only played 8 minutes, but Singleton played 10 (and scored!).
My first thought was Andy Rautins, but looks like he had a “long” career on the Knicks – 24 mins! š
Yeah but those were Singleton’s only NBA minutes…his cup of coffee never even had a chance to cool down!
Deuce was perfect from the floor (FG 6-6, 3P 4-4)! When was the last time a Knicks player did that (min: 5 FGA)?
About the game i agree with Max’s analysis, and thanks for doing it, btw.
So i’m only going to add the play of the game:
https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/1713365558589006215
https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1713364068398993458
Cameraman in preseason too! How come the block is outside the picture? Wake up, man! š
Also of note, iHart going against Gobert and scoring. He looks to be playing with a lot more confidence than last season. Not counting teams with a superstar C (Jokic, Embiid), i think we have one of the best C rotations of the league.
In my head this was so obviously Antonio McDyess, who didnāt even make it out of the preseason, but I forgot he rehabbed his knee and actually played in a few regular season games years later before being traded for Marbury. His video tribute is short though: 1 preseason dunk.
The T-Wolves have a big team. I wasnāt paying much attention. Did anyone notice how we defended when JHart was playing backup PF? Were there any issues?
Idk but Sims at PF did not look good. It was dumb to trade Toppin, but at least we have another new Toppin ready to go.
Wat Misaka, first minority in professional basketball, played only 3 games. His minutes played is unknown, but it was enough to take 13fgas
Katz has made a very good point lately: The only advantage Obi has over and Josh for playing power forward is that his collar. Heās not a great rebounder, and we know heās a bad defender. If you want to complain about the roster construction, the sin wasnāt trading Obi away. The sin was not bringing up some kind of more reasonable, traditional power forward, even if they werenāt going to be in the rotation without an injury.
I didnāt notice that in particular but I did notice that our starters all had nice positive plus minus stats and their starters were all negative, but it was the opposite for the two benches. The poor bench performance was mostly because their bench scored well. This seems to match your thoughts on their bench being bigger.
J-Hart went a single shift, 8 minutes, -9 +/-, subbed and was subbed for/by Randle.
Small Sample Size theatre and it’s only preseason but I’m a little bit worried and I really want to be wrong.
He plays bigger than his size and he’s a great rebounder for his “normal” position, but getting rebounds as a wing and as a forward is different (usually you get “dynamic” boards as a wing and “positional” ones as a forward, where size, lenght and strenght mean more).
Jericho at PF… we’re in preseason so it’s okay to try it, but in real games…
To support Alan’s points, the issue isn’t Obi’s trade* (bleak return aside), it’s not getting some defensive minded traditional “4” to use when Julius sits against bigger lineups.
* Anyway I still dislike the trade š
Re: Obi, itās hard to complain about his mildly subpar defense when you have RJ truly stinking it up for close to 40 minutes per game on that end.
But I digressā¦
Some random, mostly eye-test takes:
As I opined to Geo yesterday in our little lonely echo chamber, RJ looked good, which doesn’t really match his box score (6-15, 2-8 from three). But outside of a few brainfart turnovers, he seemed to be playing within the flow of the game, which I’ll take.
Hart didn’t look mismatched at the 4, although tiny sample size and also Minnie’s twin towers play way smaller than they are. On the other hand, Sims looked like he was a bit lost out there. On the OTHER hand, Fournier desperately and effectively playing up his trade value. Good on him.
Grimes really needs to take more shots than Mitch. iHart with a few Jokic passes, nice to see him initiating from up top, as many of us have been arguing for. I ain’t worried about Randle. Yet. And I shall just bask in the post-coital glow of Deuce’s game, having fully expected that for two years now. Let’s just see you do it again, Miles…
The T-Wolves have a big team. I wasnāt paying much attention. Did anyone notice how we defended when JHart was playing backup PF? Were there any issues?
didn’t get tested. thibs went with jericho when randle was out and kat/ gobert were in. jericho at the 4 lineups in general are a car wreck, though understandable against that duo.
hart was guarding kat when it was kat/naz, but they only went after him once in a few possessions. knicks collapsed on the post up and kat kicked it out to a wide open naz — one of his rare misses – but it created a good shot. when rudy came in for kat, hart guarded naz. he was hot from 3 and never really tried to go inside on him.
I’m going to take a minority position in saying Obi’s defense was a little better than his reputation. I think he’ll probably even rebound a little better for the Pacers than he did in NY. NY has very good rebounding overall. There are only so many rebound opportunities. He was often just leaking out trying to get transition buckets.
I like DDV, but he still feels superfluous to me. Maybe trading Obi had to happen because he was unhappy with his role and minutes, but imo it was still not a good trade.
(thanks for the note ptmilo)
It’s interesting that folks here won’t defer to Thibs’ judgment on defense. He alluded to that issue, and to defensive metrics in general, by pointing out that most critics do not consider the role a particular player has in a particular defensive scheme. My sense is that his constant displeasure with Obi’s defense is about him not doing what Thibs expected him to do…and the reason he rolls with RJ is because RJ does what Thibs wants him to do.
But even by the eye test alone, I thought Obi was a terrible defender…constantly late to spots in help rotations and getting out-angled by drivers. And I would not be surprised if at some point felatively early on, Rick Carlisle, another demanding defensive coach, is going to become fed up with Obi’s defense and opt for one of the other PF options for the serious work, while Obi reverts to the “energy guy off the bench” role that he had here.
This is why I think either Grimes or Quickley will be going out in a trade for a star or even a B-star by the deadline. I donāt think theyāll force the issue, at least not this year, but something is bound to happen and I think DDV is here to stay due to his Brunson connection.
i don’t know raven, i kind of liked it…you don’t seem to freak out too much…kind of take the game in stride and actually find humor in failure…
that’s pretty darn cool actually…
oh goodness, there have been some game threads where the level of angst was sky high…
it’s a bit weird…but I’m old now, probably me too not all that long ago…
dear donnie saved me…
oh, and you and jowles stay safe traveling this week…not easy but try to be very careful when and where you eat or drink…mask up, stay calm and positive and the odds are great you’ll both make it back home healthy and happy š
that reminds me of my favorite game thread post ever:
rƤz had made several unanswered posts going from the first half in to the 3rd quarter…
he then posted: where the fuck is everyone?
it had the tone/vibe of someone fearing that the apocalypse has occurred, and they were left behind…
you know, i have done cocaine before…it came out with that kind of inspiration, only more so…yes, paranoia the destroyer…
Not many people claimed he was much more than that all along. IMO, he’s not a starting PF on any good team in the league. He’s a backup. But he’s a good backup. He was getting the exact number of minutes he deserved in NY. His only legitimate complaint was how he was being used. He’s a terrific athlete and finisher that can score in transition on pure energy and effort. We had him standing in the corner shooting 3s which was/is a weakness. So you can argue it was a bit of a mismatch, but it really wasn’t the entire time. There were periods early on when Rose was running the 2nd unit where he was being used more effectively.
I agree, especially on politics potentially being a factor, but I find that distressing because I think Quickley is best of all those players.
IMO the reason he rolls with RJ is either political (high draft pick, trade value) or he has a terrible blind spot. IMO the gap between Quickley and RJ is larger than the Grand Canyon. We could easily be starting Brunson, Quickley, Grimes/JHart, Randle and Robinson, bet better on both sides, and RJ would probably be a little more effective against bench units. It’s not like Quickley is a pure PG that can’t function in the 1st unit. He’s not even really a PG. We’ve been forcing into that role.
LOL
“IMO the reason he rolls with RJ is either political (high draft pick, trade value) or he has a terrible blind spot.”
Or maybe you have the terrible blind spot. Just sayin’…
It’s certainly possible, but I think it’s way more likely it’s Thibs and politics.
I’m not a fan of any of the single number models or even certain individual stats without context, role, coaching, teammates etc.. being taken into account. I can’t find a metric that makes me think RJ is a plus player. Some say he’s outright bad. All those models are flawed for different reasons, but they are not that bad. I’m willing to concede he may improve and am hoping for that, but imo up to now he’s been a major anchor in the starting lineup. IMO, if we replaced RJ with a player like OG, we would improve by enough to easily be 3rd seed in the east. No one in the NBA would look forward to playing us. And that’s not because I think OG is so great. It’s that we’d be improving noticeably on both sides. I think the starters would be a lot better on both sides if we just swapped Quickley and RJ.
“Itās certainly possible, but I think itās way more likely itās Thibs and politics.”
Right, because Thibs cares a lot more about politics, just like he did when he continually played Cam and Kemba after the FO acquired them.
And because even the most celebrated defensive coaches have massive blind spots that sharp-eyed horse racing handicappers can pick up on.
Thibs needs a lead guard on the second unit, and that job has fallen to Quickley. I think that has a lot to do with Quickley not starting.
“Thibs needs a lead guard on the second unit, and that job has fallen to Quickley. I think that has a lot to do with Quickley not starting.”
Correct.
Strat, I think Thibs likes RJās size (height and girth) at SF, and heās a minutes eater who does a few nice things on offense (well, one: getting to the line).
And Iām sure theyāre still hoping he will improve, but he was abysmal in both steals and blocks last season (12th from last in the league in steals and 40th from last in blocks).
Thibs probably views RJ as a workhorse innings eater at the SF spot. On defense, he largely keeps smaller players in front of him, guards elite wings pretty well in iso, and can body up bigs on switches. On offense he goes downhill and attacks the rim. He doesn’t do any of those things consistently on an elite level, but he is the best option the team has to eat minutes at the small wing position. It’s pretty clear that Thibs will end games with who he feels are the best options, including running with Josh Hart at RJ’s expense. But RJ will get his ~26 minutes in the first 3 quarters on most nights and will be a first option in most fourth quarters unless and until Thibs feels that RJ is costing him games. That didn’t happen last year….after the first 20 or so games, the team won at a 50+ win pace with RJ getting the second most minutes. Then he was our second best player in the playoffs. He ain’t going anywhere.
Also, RJ was 11th worst in the entire league in defensive RAPTOR and 20th worst in the league in CraftedDPM (Obi was far better in both categories albeit against somewhat lesser competition on the 2nd unitāalthough RJ was sometimes with the 2nd unit himself).
I’ve posted this before, but here’s some of Thibs thoughts on what the defensive metrics say about RJ.
And while I think RJ is hardly a DPoY candidate, I don’t think he’s as bad as the metrics suggest, for exactly the reasons Thibs points out. For example, in an article posted numerous times, Thibs’ defensive schemes focus on keeping layers in front and not jumping passing lanes. Word has it that he studies film as intensely as any coach who ever coached. So it’s logical to believe that Thibs sees what’s working and not working in the context of his schemes as well as anyone. He’s going to go with what gives him the best chance to win. He’s not going to risk wins on a defender that can get targeted play after play. That’s why guys like Kemba and Evian, and yes, Obi, and even his beloved Derrick Rose had trouble staying on the floor.
That’s probably the most logical defense of why Thibs trusts RJ. Whatever his deficiencies are, he doesn’t get expressly targeted by opposing offenses. Sort of the same goes with Julius. The one guy who does get targeted is Brunson, but he’s so vital in every other way that Thibs can’t bench him.
GANGSTA WIN FOR THE J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS
that was nice…their defense is crazy…
i’m thinking i should do myself a favor and skip the g-men’s game…
Frank had 6 assists today. I think heās finally turning a corner
(ducks for cover)
RJās defense doesnāt jump out at you in game but it shows up in every metric.
Off topic but the Rugby World Cup went 4-4 this weekend. Every quarterfinal was a classic. The French captain played with a shattered cheekbone. Argentina is in the semis. Just an amazing sporting event.
Problem is our defense is just not very good, so I donāt know how many genius points to assign to Thibs for that. You can make the case that our defense overachieves considering that we give heavy minutes to some poor/mediocre defenders, but at the same time the results matter. The Knicks were a fluky 3rd in defensive rating in Thibs first year, then 11th the next year, then 19th last year.
We give up some āfreeā buckets because we crash the offensive boards so heavily (because our guys miss lots of shots) but even if you factor that in we were an average at best defensive team last year.
A middle-of-the-pack ranking on defense is decent considering our personnel, and I think we might be able to do a bit better than that this year with a full season of Hart and DDV, who are now our two best ball hawks.
Should be an interesting experiment to see if, for instance, DDVās stocks numbers take a dive under Thibs because heās being coached to stay in front of defenders and not jump passing lanes. If those numbers stay the same, you can logically infer that RJās pitiful stocks numbers are not because of a coaching anomaly.
Frank has never turned the corner against anybody
Frank actually had numbers in his stats both for shooting and assists (and also had a negative plus minus) Thatās the opposite of the Frank we know. He did get very reasonable minutes. Clifford is a defensive minded coach and I suspect heāll give Frank a regular role.
I know Grimes has a quick shooting motion but is it perhaps too fast, even rushed? Even on wide open shots.
Also I like Sims but I donāt think he is much more than end of the bench player. It is like plying 4 on 5 on offense when he is PF.
I would like us to add a PF who can shoot some. Green is still FA. But donāt know if he fits us.
I think it’s fair to call us an average defensive team last year. It’s complicated though. If you look at the 4 factors, we were 8th in opponent eFG%, 9th in DReb%, and 15th in opponent FT/FGA. However, we were 24th in generating TOVs…which we know is by Thibs’ design.
What is curious to me is that if our eFG% was a lousy 20th in the NBA, but was higher than our opponents eFG% which was 22nd in the NBA (or 8th lowest), it’s kind of weird to say that our offense was all that much better than our defense. Rebounding is sort of a separate thing. Offensive rebounding gets fully credited to the offense, but it helps defensively by keeping your opponent from possessing the ball before you get another FGA…in a similar way that a steal does. Similarly, defensive rebounds help the offense by increasing transition opportunities that don’t exist after made baskets.
And my guess is that Thibs is less concerned with defensive efficiency (PPP) rankings and how box score stats play into that, and more concerned with winning the PPP differential battle.
That said, I think he’s aware of RJ’s issues with closing out on shooters and navigating PnRs, but also knows how much is on him and how much is on breakdowns elsewhere. He’s probably aware that Brunson gets picked on and has to be supported by a defensive scheme with some trade-offs. He was certainly aware of the players other than Brunson who were easy to target, making the whole scheme break down. There’s some domino effect stuff that he surely sees better than we do.
“Should be an interesting experiment to see if, for instance, DDVās stocks numbers take a dive under Thibs because heās being coached to stay in front of defenders and not jump passing lanes. If those numbers stay the same, you can logically infer that RJās pitiful stocks numbers are not because of a coaching anomaly.”
This is sort of besides the point. Deuce and JHart have good steals numbers even within Thibs schemes. Hart’s actually rose over his career numbers after he was traded. But that’s their thing. If that’s not one’s thing, it doesn’t make one a bad defender in and of itself. Some guy nicknamed named The Locksmith averaged a paltry 1 stock per 36 during his 5 seasons with the Knicks (never higher than 1.3). Of course, this is not to say that RJ is Anthony Mason, only that you can be a pretty good defensive player without piling up steals and blocks. (and no, Thibs wasn’t a Knicks assistant until after Mase was traded!)
Will you look at thatā¦. the Yankees had a pitcher who could beat the Astros and dominate in the postseason all along. Iām shocked that Brian Cashman made such an egregious misjudgment of pitching ability. Shocked I say!