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153 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.10.04)”
Bill Walton with the San Diego Clippers.
Good one Alan, but I did not include him in one of the instances. Technically Walton was signed as a free agent and at that time the signing team “compensated” the old team so there was no trade. But I probably should have as it involved a player moving to a new team that wanted him. Yet there is another instance a bit closer to home.
I for one would be all for trading for Embiid. Yes he has an injury history but none of them have been sort of out of the ordinary for a basketball player (meniscus in both knees) and others have been random things like a hand ligament, broken orbit, and a shoulder. And because he sat out the first 2 years of his career and so really started his career in his age-22 season, he actually has only 12500 minutes played — compare that to similarly aged Bradley Beal (24000 minutes played), Giannis (23378 minutes played) purely because they started their pro career at age 19. The real risky injury that he had — the foot — has been a non-issue since he started his pro career.
And it’s not like he’s played way fewer minutes because he’s always badly injured. His first season was also Jaylen Brown’s first season, and Jaylen has played 13900 minutes, not so different. Sabonis has played 14000 minutes.
He obviously has a gigantic body and takes a lot of wear and tear in the paint, but he’s played the same # of minutes as most 26 year old stars.
In addition – looking forward the next 3+ years — we are going have to zag while everyone else zigs. Boston and Milwaukee are the two obvious frontrunners in the east now — Boston has gone all in positions 1-3 and are hoping a 60 year old Horford and KP can hold down the middle. Embiid in 2 games against KP last year averaged 41 points and 9 rebounds in 33 minutes/game. Milwaukee is hoping that 47 year old Brook Lopez can keep playing at a high level, but otherwise have no one that has a hope of guarding Embiid unless they want Giannis to take that pounding.
My only worry is that Thibs will try and play Embiid too much, but unlike Philly, I would imagine we will have a capable backup for him even if Mitch has to go out in the trade for him.
If we’re going to put all our chips on the table, it has to be for a bona fide superstar – and one who is not 34 years old or something. Who else is left that is potentially wanting out?
Understanding that Brunson is basically Leon’s godson, there is zero chance he is trading Brunson out — and in fact the negotiation over his next contract is going to be very interesting.
Potentials?
Luka – zero chance Cuban will want to deal him to the Knicks, and there will 30 other teams that will throw everything at Cuban.
Shai – small guard, awesome player, signed to mega-extension. I don’t imagine Presti wants either picks or a 3-for-1 trade since he already has too many good players.
Devin Booker – no chance for at least a few years, out of our window before presumed Randle/Brunson deals (I guess Randle could go out in a trade, but not before summer of 25-26 I would imagine)
Anyone else?
Bill Walton with the San Diego Clippers.
celtics won the title the year they traded for him. sixers traded moses malone to the bullets for former knickerblogger ruruland within 5 years of his last mvp.
“Z-Man, I think you’re being deliberately obtuse. Lillard’s Portland teams, which were 1-man top-heavy teams, lost to the Warriors 3 years in a row. Those three Warriors teams won a combined 197 games — an all-time best .800 winning percentage during that three year span. Yet you are holding it as an indictment on Lillard’s ability to lead a team out of the western conference. His “Robins” in those years were, statistically, Ed Davis, Mason Plumlee, and Jusuf Nurkic — against Curry, Durant, Thompson, and Green.
I don’t think you need to be told that a team like the Warriors does not exist in the NBA right now, and there wasn’t even a clear favorite to come out of the east before this week. Obviously it doesn’t take any magic from Thibs or Leon to get Damian Lillard into an NBA finals. All it takes is a reasonably good cast of players around him and no best-team-ever in his path. As a Knick fan alive in the 90s you should know this.”
Does that also apply to 2018, when Dame’s Blazers got swept by the mighty Pelicans in the first roung, and CJ McCollum was the Blazers’ leading scorer with 25ppg on a .610 TS% while Dame avgd 18.5pg on a .471 TS%?
I kid, I kid. Look, I love Dame and think that those who think Portland would have accepted a straight up trade for Brunson, or that Brunson would command the same return on the trade market as Dame, are out of their minds. He’s a 7-time All-NBA player and has 3-4 good years left. He would be a marked improvement over Brunson on our team in an even swap, but that would absolutely never happen.
He’d be joining a different team than the one Brunson plays on, because of what we’d have to give up for him in addition to Brunson. And the prospects for improving that team would be severely diminished, both due to the loss of assets and the loss of cap flexibility. So while I admit that criticizing Dame for not winning more in the West was in part deliberately obtuse, the main point still stands.
I do believe that Dame has some flaws, though. In my view, he and Spida are very similar players, and trading for either one at this stage would not move the needle very much for us given that we have a rock-solid player at their position on a tremendous contract that we attained a minor tampering sanction.
sixers traded moses malone to the bullets for former knickerblogger ruruland within 5 years of his last mvp.
Ok, forgot about Moses’ 2nd trade (his 1st from Houston to Sixers is one of the instances)…So I will reword… There have been 9 instances…and in 6 of them…
Yet another correction…there have been 10 instances…and in 6 of them. The 4 exceptions are Walton to Clips (thanks Alan), Moses to Washington (thanks pt) and 1 involving a team close to home, and yet another 1 involving that same player
If we can get Joel Embiid for the equivalent of the price the Sixers paid for prime Moses Malone (Caldwell Jones and a single first rounder) I’m all for it!
I mean, you can tell by the way he asked the question that the answer is the Knicks.
I actually guessed the center correctly, but I won’t spoil it for anyone who wants to give it a go.
Bob McAdoo?
Correct. My original post was meant to illustrate that if you do this you have a 85% chance of success based on the small track record. But as I fixed omissions the rate drops down to 60%…so not much there to add to the pro/con trade for Joel debate!
For the record, I believe we could have gotten Dame with Brunson (a significantly better asset than Jrue Holiday), Grimes (easily substitutes for Allen to complete the 3 team trade with Phoenix), Evan (salary matching), 1 unprotected first round pick in 2026, and one of the Fugazi firsts.
That would have given us a great team right now, possibly the best in the East, and plenty of assets to make more moves down the line. Dame himself would become a great asset in two years, when his expiring contract could be paired with picks to make another trade for a superstar.
The upgrade from Brunson to Lillard isn’t minor, as some have suggested. It’s enormous. It’s quite possible Donnie Walsh is the only one who will agree with me, but I accept that.
More importantly, though, and the whole reason I’ve mentioned this, is that I don’t think there’s going to be a better move than this coming down the pike. Even if you love Embiid, you can’t keep turning down a bird in the hand for two in the bush. This guy may never even hit the market. Daryl Morey could easily pull off the same kind of stunt Milwaukee did and turn Embiid into the happiest camper on the planet.
The best counter to making this kind of trade was presented by Swifty. This is an easy team to love, and I totally understand wanting to keep it that way. There are sentimental and emotional reasons for not wanting to trade your best player, even if it would make your team much better. I acknowledge them.
The worst counter is the one where if we trade a player a year after signing him it will do irreparable damage to our rep and we’ll never be able to get players again. We really, really need to retire this boogey man bullshit. The Celtics have been cold-heartedly treating their players like assets for over 60 years, and all they do is keep acquiring more over and over. If you’re good, players will want to play for you. Period.
This was nearly a decade after he won the MVP, though, and he was a bench player on that team.
…and McAdoo won two titles with the Lakers, albeit a decade after his MVP seasons.
I believe in this. And if you go compare Brunson’s age 22 to 26 seasons to Nash’s, you’ll see that they’re quite similar. I also think their style of play is quite similar too. After that, please check what Nash did from age 27 to age 33. I think we have a great 7 years in front of us. ☺️
I would like to learn about all the players that the cold-hearted Celtics have treated like assets for over 60 years. In fact, let’s limit the conversation to trading the best player on the team, and at his position in over 40 years, in his prime, 100% healthy, on the best contract in the NBA, and on the heels of a magnificent playoff performance, that they tampered to bring in, hired his father on the coaching staff, and brought in two of his college teammates.
I’m convinced that Boston will likely get off to a rocky start. No KP, no heart and soul Marcus Smart and a work in progress coach trying to manage 2 co-star egos while introducing Jrue. Then when KP joins, more adjustments….they will likely be ~.500 for the first 30+ games.
Knicks must to take advantage of this and stack Ws to try to end the season as a #2 seed, – so that Boston and Milwakee can battle each other in the 2nd round while NY has a 2nd round rematch with Donovan Mitchel.
“I believe in this. And if you go compare Brunson’s age 22 to 26 seasons to Nash’s, you’ll see that they’re quite similar. I also think their style of play is quite similar too. After that, please check what Nash did from age 27 to age 33. I think we have a great 7 years in front of us. ☺️”
I’m a bit more skeptical about the size of any forthcoming leap, but from your (or Fred’s) mouth to God’s ears!
I don’t think Boston will struggle at all. Jrue is a plug and play guy. The core of Tatum, Brown, White and Horford are all seasoned vets. If KP is recovered from his plantar fasciaitis, he should fit in just fine. Their opening schedule isn’t particularly rough. My guess is that they start off something like 13-6 going into the in-season tournament. I would definitely like to be wrong, though!
30 other teams? That’s after the expansion? LOL! Just kiddin’, don’t be mad at me! 😉
I’m convinced that Boston will likely get off to a rocky start…Knicks must to take advantage of this
Well that is good news Director as the Knicks play them twice in their first 10 games.
RE: Embiid
Personally, I feel like if we’re gonna trade for Embiid- it has to be this season. He scares me man. He just gives me the feeling that he only has a couple really good to dominant seasons left. I think for as gigantic as he is, playing in the paint is gonna wear thin for him and he’s gonna turn into a jump shot big who doesn’t move well enough to take advantage of that skill in 2 maybe 3 seasons- best case scenario. But make no mistake- I’d want him on the team. It’s just that with him and Brunson, our window would be very short and the jury’s still out on if Thibs is that guy to get us over the hump. For me it’s hard to judge with Thibs. The one time he had a team worthy of a chip, Rose blew out his knee. I’d feel alot better about his chances if we still had Payne and Woodson on staff with Bryant and Brunson. But maybe Thibs can pull it off with Embiid playing at a high level..I dunno
Haha the Jimmy Butler/emo hair memes are pretty great: “Jimmy Heat World” and “Ball Out Boy”
So, that means the Cavs will be ahead of the Celtics too? Because they’d only face the best team in the east (MIL, in your scenario) in the 2nd round if they’re the 4th seed.
Yeah, take the opening night over on offensive rebounds. Mitch has to be tired of being disrespected.
Cavs look like they grew up physically and mentally. Struss could prove to be a underrated total team value add signing becuase of fit.
Playing around on CTG looking +/-‘s and it is jarring how much RJ negatively affects these lineups.
Brunson+Randle+RJ –> -1.8 net rating
Brunson +Randle (-) RJ –> +10.2
Randle on, RJ off –> +13.4
RJ on, Randle off –> +0.4
Now – the Brunson/Grimes/RJ/Randle/Mitch lineup is good -> but it is all dependent on Grimes.
+7 with Grimes
+2.7 without Grimes
I do hope RJ takes a leap this year, but with DDV + Hart on the team for the whole season, Thibs has reasons to decrease RJ’s minutes. The quote about him coming off the bench is… interesting.
Performance enhancing drugs are a lot harder to get away with than when Nash had his unprecedented late career surge, though.
brunson’s not like nash… his shooting is not anywhere near as good and he’s definitely not in the pass-first realm of pg like nash and kidd…
but i do think he has another bump in store… and hubert touched on it in the past with an improvement in his ftr… to a lesser extent if we can evolve our offense beyond the alternating iso possessions he could also see his assist rate increase… i don’t think that’s in the cards just due to who our coach is… but it’s something that can happen as good players evolve with the offense and the players around him….
he probably won’t ever get to 6bpm or beyond… but the stars are aligned for further improvement and the next few years could look a lot like melo’s best years here in terms of box score impact (3.6 , 4.3, 5.0 bpm)…. i think at worst you have something like a kemba walker … who i think is a much better comp for brunson (basically 4bpm every year until age 30)….
there’s of course a chance for regression… and the ftr is going to be one to monitor since that was the main driver of his leap…. but ftr tends to be sticky especially when they get to this level… so i’m more optimistic about brunson than anyone on the team….
Putting Nash aside, though, I do agree that Brunson has another level to go to.
[Putting on my broken record now…]
“Earning a whistle” is real, even though we can’t quantify it. It’s like being made in the mafia.
In game 6 against Miami, Brunson started to get a whistle, and he was unstoppable.
I have no idea how they get bestowed, but I think Brunson’s getting one. That’s his next level right there.
I agree. I would trade the farm for him right now, because we’d get his age 29, 30, and 31 seasons. I have no qualms with that.
It’s when he opts out before his age 32 season that I want nothing to do with him. Nothing.
Trading for him next year means two seasons, and I wouldn’t trade the farm for two seasons.
I listened to Katz on that pod and uncharacteristically came away materially higher on the possibility of another Brunson leap. That’s probably stupid, but then again, Brunson has made a career of breaking through every ceiling that’s been put on him. I’ll bet on him*.
That said, I think anyone saying the Knicks don’t need to make another major move needs a reality check. I like this team a lot! But let’s take stock of the league.
Our absolute ceiling in a best-case case scenario (and a worst-case scenario for many other teams) is being the 5th best team in the NBA this year. I don’t think I need to make the case for Boston, Milwaukee, Denver, and Phoenix being better than us even if everything breaks right.
Then you have teams like Memphis, both LA teams, Golden State, and New Orleans who might not have better regular season indicators than us because of load management, suspensions, etc. but are pretty uncontroversially “better” than us in a colloquial sense–they have higher playoff ceilings.
Philly, Miami, and Cleveland are looking like our competitors for “best of the rest” in the East, and if we’re being honest Philly and Cleveland at least likely have an edge on us there.
Then there are some teams that could be better than us with reasonable amounts of good luck for them and/or bad luck for us e.g. Atlanta, Sacramento, Minnesota, OKC, Chicago, and Toronto. Some of these are more likely than others obviously.
Accounting for all of this, I think, as usual, Vegas’ odds are about right. They give us the 14th best chance to win a title. Maybe you can quibble with a few rankings here and there, but if you think that’s way, way off, well, go get rich.
I don’t say all of this because I think we’re doomed. I will reiterate that I am fairly happy with our current position, but that is because I think we’re in a reasonably good position to make the big move we very obviously need to make in order to go from 14th to the top 6-7 or so.
Our position will worsen if we do nothing. That’s how the NBA works. Guys get older, you lose years on their contracts, other teams get better. Patience is not an inherent virtue–it is much, much easier to make a big trade now than it will be when Brunson, Randle, and Grimes are paid just to name one example.
Thankfully, I am confident Leon Rose is aware of all of this and “should we try to acquire the reigning MVP” is one of those “debates” that only happens within fanbases and looks insane to everyone else.
*This is not me saying I will literally place a bet that might leave me in dire financial straits.
Cause Nash looked so swole in Phoenix.
https://stathead.com/tiny/tE9Gf
I just realized that besides playing Boston on opening night, we will have two preseason games against them too with first one in just a week. That’s a lot different than having two preseason games against Washington.
this embiid talk is a bit excessive… there’s a small chance he hits the market.. but there’s essentially a zero chance that he gets dealt within the division…. ownership and certainly morey will not let that happen…. not with that philly fanbase… and there’s zero history with these stars being dealt so close to home…. more than likely they get dealt to the opposite conference….
you absolutely do need to trade for a star…. so whether that’s embiid or dame…. you absolutely need to consider it and make at least a strong attempt to do so…. if you don’t then you’re probably not interested in championships…. and that’s ok… everyone has different reasons they like to watch basketball…. and that’s probably the difference in what people are disagreeing on….
our window is not all that big…. our window is actually basically right now and if randle isn’t all-nba caliber it might actually be non-existant….. brunson and randle aren’t exactly super young…. and guys like them are probably not going to be allstars at 35… and so you probably have something like at most 5 years to do something…. with the next 1-2 years as the lone opportunity to grab that next guy… and hey maybe you like this team and dont mind seeing it for the next 4 years no matter what… but all it really takes are a couple of first rd exits to change that really quick….
“Thankfully, I am confident Leon Rose is aware of all of this and “should we try to acquire the reigning MVP” is one of those “debates” that only happens within fanbases and looks insane to everyone else.”
Once again, it’s not about “should we try”….it’s about the cost. There is debate both within the fanbase and ourside of it about that. That you use language like “looks insane to everyone else” is shockingly dismissive, especially coming from someone who used similarly inflammatory language last year at this time and was dead wrong about pretty much everything. (not really, but since we’re using extreme language to characterize opinions, why not?)
Perhaps you noticed all those cyclists in the Tour de France didn’t exactly look like Barry Bonds.
being dead wrong about many things does not really have the effect on people that you might think it does… you should know!
dunning krueger and all….
For you that just means this might be the year he surpasses Jrue Holiday 😉
Acquiring the reigning MVP can, in fact, be a very bad idea.
See Stanton, Giancarlo.
If I were to make a guess about what this team will look like in two years, I’d guess that Leon does not make a consolidation trade, and just sticks with the Brunson-Randle-RJ core indefinitely. The young guys will probably be re-signed, and we’ll keep running it back year after year with the same group. Whoever has to be jettisoned to get under the apron will be jettisoned. Draft picks will continue to be paper clip traded. Things will continue on like this until Jalen and Randle’s decline phase.
I’ll be surprised if something big happens. That’s just my gut feeling.
James Harden was traded for one year after he won his MVP. That was a disaster.
Trading for League MVP Russell Westbrook didn’t work out for three teams.
Kobe Bryant’s borderline. Derrick Rose gets excused. Allen Iverson isn’t an MVP anyone would have been happy selling out for in 2003.
This is not a solid argument!
You can’t just ignore age, injury history, work ethic, contract status, and the likelihood of sustainability bc a guy won an MVP award.
So performing enhancement drugs helped Nash throw no look passes to Amare?
Embiid is coming off back to back 9 BPM seasons. I mean, he’s pretty good at this game.
“If I were to make a guess about what this team will look like in two years, I’d guess that Leon does not make a consolidation trade, and just sticks with the Brunson-Randle-RJ core indefinitely. The young guys will probably be re-signed, and we’ll keep running it back year after year with the same group. Whoever has to be jettisoned to get under the apron will be jettisoned. Draft picks will continue to be paper clip traded. Things will continue on like this until Jalen and Randle’s decline phase.
I’ll be surprised if something big happens. That’s just my gut feeling.”
While it may work out this way, I a) think it’s impossible to tell right now what will happen, but b) think something big will happen. Clearly they are going to make an offer for Embiid if he becomes available….the question is, a) what’s the ceiling on that offer, b) will another team top it, and c) will Morey choose to take a slightly smaller offer just to get Embiid into the WC? I could see teams out west being hungry to acquire an answer to the currently insurmountable obstacle named Jokic (who we all know was the real MVP by a pretty wide margin.) So the odds of the Knicks acquiring Embiid at a price that makes sense are quite low.
So then what? I could definitely see the Knicks becoming interested in a guy like PG13 and acquiring him in a sign-and-trade. He has a player option and seemed pretty chummy with Julius during the offseason. Would that be smart? Just like with Embiid, depends on the price. Kawhi is also someone that might shake loose due to his player option. So the Clips situation is definitely worth monitoring.
And of course, there are the great unknowns. Three years ago, who predicted that the Nets were going to blow it up after an abject failure of their KD-Kyrie-Harden plan? Who predicted that the Mavs were going to totally botch the Jalen Brunson situation? Who predicted that Zion would play 600 minutes total in years 3 and 4?
So my very strong gut feeling is that something moderate to enormous is going to happen prior to opening day 2025. It’s just a question of who, when, and at what price. But I agree that if nothing big happens, Aller will figure out a way to keep the Knicks under the second apron, at which time they may actually have a huge bargaining advantage over other winning teams who are over the line.
It’s also my understanding that when the second apron penalties kick in in 2025, draft capital will increase in value. Is that true?
I think it’s silly to want to trade for a star right now especially just because Boston and The Bucks do it. Keeping up with the joneses is a bad team building philosophy.
We got 5 rotation players (3 starters) who are under 25 – RJ, Mitch, Grimes, IQ, IHart. We’ve also got youngish players with DDV, McBride and Brunson is 26. We got to the second round last year and lost to the ECF champs in 6 with our best (or second best) player severly injured. Our 6th man of the year candidate missed 3 games in that series too.
Leon is wise not not trade for Dame or Holiday right now. He should wait and see how the team looks and see what shakes loose in the mid season trade market before committing to an all in move. We got time.
I highly doubt Nash was using PEDs. Originally he was buried behind Kevin Johnson and Jason Kidd in Phoenix then Dallas didn’t maximize his skills the way the MDA Suns did. MDA played at a faster pace than everyone in the league and shot 600 more 3s than the Dallas team Nash left. His Per 100 possession stats are very similar season to season.
Also, PEDs are now harder to get away with. It’s far easier to catch someone using anabolic steroids than it is HGH.
we’re probably not going to have nothing available… donovan mitchell is about even odds to both be available and have ny as his preferred destination or at least be in the mix… there’s going to be random names like KAT or Zion thrown around in the rumor mill….
probably not exciting stuff but just goes to show the pitfalls of this kind of strategy….
Porzingis is 100% and practicing. I’m not sure where the idea came from that his injury was serious. It was minor case. He was held out of FIBA just to make sure it didn’t develop into something more serious.
Boston made a lot of changes. I’m pretty convinced there’s more to come. It may take some time for them to peak, but they are healthy coming into the season.
Leon’s plan has sucked from the jump.
E’s back!
Strat, following Dallas because you’re a fan of Porzingis/Frank is one thing, but to follow the Celts… 🤮
All I’ll say about Nash is that a PG having his two best seasons at age 31 & 32 during the golden age of sports doping is conspicuous.
The NBA managed to avoid scrutiny during the steroid era in large part due to the public’s false belief that steroids = bulging muscles. David Stern deftly leaned into this bias to deflect attention from the World Anti-Doping Agency pointing out that the NBA drug testing policy had “major gaps”. Congress in 2005 labeled the NBA’s PED testing as “inadequate”, “pathetic”, and “a joke.” No major changes were made after.
To date, nearly every major sport has had a high-profile doping athlete get exposed except the NBA. You think that’s because NBA players were singularly immune from the temptations that NFL, MLB, soccer, cycling, tennis, track & field athletes succumbed to? Or you think maybe an extremely intelligent David Stern made keeping his league’s image the priority over the impossible task of stamping out PEDs?
source of quotes: https://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/51305/gaps-in-nba-drug-testing
Mike D’Antoni’s system clearly goosed Steve Nash’s numbers. Nash didn’t play in an SSOL offense until age 30.
Leaves are changing color, pumpkin spice lattes are everywhere.
All typical of the season.
Porzingis is one of the greatest autumn players who ever lived. It’s when the temperature drops that things get more unpredictable.
Hubert, i think you’ve gone too far on the Nash subject, you’re making serious allegations with no basis whatsoever except… a hunch?
The Thunder will roll out a starting lineup of:
PG SGA
SG Josh Giddey
SF Lu Dort
PF Jalen Williams
C Chet Holmgren
Not a perfect starting lineup, as Dort is not all that good and they’re a little undersized at SF-PF. They’re oversized at SG and C though, at least in terms of length, so that makes up for it.
Their bench is deep:
Vasilije Micic is probably going to be a key bench player, and that guy can play. He’s a 6’5″ facilitating guard who can shoot and isn’t a zero on defense, a plug and play kind of guy. Isaiah Joe was a great pickup for them last season, he’s a high volume 3-point bomber who also plays at least a little bit of defense. Serviceable vet Kenrich Williams will play some big wing for them, and Jeremiah Robinson-Earl is another useful bench piece.
Then they’ve got three young guys who all have nice upside potential: Jaylin “Not Jalen” Williams didn’t embarrass himself as a 20-year old backup big, Ousmane Dieng is still only 20 and is an enticing enigma, and #10 pick Cason Wallace is a defensive-oriented guard who could also play his way into the rotation. Plus they still have Poku.
They also have 10 first round picks coming to them in the next three drafts.
Nash was quite good in Dallas also
While the time of year in which hockey and basketball return is always awesome, this was one of the most boring, nondescript offseasons I think I’ve ever seen in any sport and I co-sign TNFH’s necessary review of the team’s relative status, including in Vegas.
There’s no use belaboring it, including after losses, and I don’t intend to spend the season belaboring it. This is a team made in Thibs’s image that I’m sure Thibs will enjoy coaching. I would not have gone in that direction, but again — no reason belaboring it. For me personally, that’s extremely boring and unimaginative.
Leon has certainly accomplished his boss’s primary objective for this franchise, which is to have a consistently playoff-caliber team which generate the playoff gates which help the bottom line of the public company of which his boss is the CEO. I personally do not believe his boss really cares about the next step up from that to a championship-caliber team, and I think there’s ample evidence to support that.
The question then becomes whether Leon cares if the franchise takes that next step. The jury is still out on that question. I see no evidence to make me just automatically conclude that he does care, especially if trying to make that next step jeopardizes maintaining his boss’s primary objective. I see little evidence that anyone or any faction in the organization *really* cares about winning a championship and thirsts for it. So we’ll see.
Now that the summer’s tally is in the hopper and the consolidation trade that was never going to happen even though normal people rightly thought it would happen, didn’t happen, the Obi trade looks extremely petty. It’s obviously very boring.
🙂
This is the time of year I make bets on the title and win totals. I’m trying to follow major developments at all the teams looking for things I think might be falling between the cracks or overrated/underrated. It’s unlikely I’ll be betting on the Celtics. I like their team a lot but I don’t know anything everyone else doesn’t also know.
But speaking of Frank, he missed a lot the summer with an injury (again), but he’s ready to go for Charlotte as a backup defender. I really wish he’d have a few healthy off seasons in a row for once.
I don’t.
That entire era of sports is painted with the PED brush. If you want to exclude NBA players for no reason and against all statistical probability, that’s your prerogative. But a guy with his record in any other sport at that time would be under suspicion.
Oh yay, E’s back.
Doogie, care to labor over his abuse and overuse of the word ‘belabor’?
Also the decision to discuss things that are ‘extremely boring’ and ‘very boring’…
The season is beginning…
A lot of PGs have been quite good when they’re 27.
There’s only been one in the history of the NBA who was better at 37.
I’m sure it’s a coincidence it happened in the golden age of PEDs in the league with the worst testing policy in the world.
I think Charlotte can work out well for Frank, there’s really no pressure around that team and i think that bodes well with Frank. I like the kid and i hope he can have a good season.
Presti had done a fabulous job of rebuilding, no question about it. Still, the Thunder haven’t won a first round series since 2016, when Kevin Durant and prime Russ were still on the team. It is possible but unlikely that they will win a first round series this year, and they are no lock for the playoffs. Even though only two of those years were non-competitive, including the pandemic year, that’s still a long time to be on the outside looking in. That’s a model rebuild, but it might have been hard to emulate by anyone but Presti. It certainly helped when two of their drafted starters were passed over by the Knicks!
The Thunder have 10 1sts in the next 3 years. The Knicks have 6. None of the Knicks picks are as good as the Houston picks owned by OKC, so big advantage to OKC.
In light of it all, a fair question is: when will the win totals and playoff successes for OKC and NYK cross over?
Welcome back, E, i hope you’re ready because as the team keeps improving you’ll need to get creative in finding ways to keep saying negative things about the team. 😀
Everyone knows Steve Nash was on the juice.
Max, where are you? Wake up, the season is starting… 🤭 😛
i heard he was holding out….he’s going to be rusty unless he get’s back on the keyboard soon…
Nash’s numbers jump off the page the minute he hooks up with Mike D’Antoni at age 30. Huge spike in AST%. This is why his best seasons happened in his early 30’s.
Pass-first PGs also tend to age well. He’s not the only elite one that was still a very fine player in his late 30’s.
LOL, Hubert just throwing out false stats about Nash.
Nash’s last season in Phoenix was when he was 37. He averaged 30 minutes a game, 12 points a game and 10 assists. DUDE WAS TOTALLY ON PEDS THAT YEAR.
He never averaged more than 19 points a game even at his peak in Phoenix. He also never averaged more than 34 minutes a game. He just racked up a ton of assists and shot the ball efficiently.
PED’s help you throw no look passes and improve your hand eye coordination and allow you to anticipate where your teammates will be so you can throw them an open pass. Also, when you take PED’s, their powers also transfer to your starting PF, turning him into one of the best pick and roll big men in the NBA. PED’s also make you shoot the ball better.
Or I just looked at his bref page and you didn’t.
BPM at 27: 3.1
BPM at 37: 3.4
Of course at 27 he didn’t have Amar’e Stoudemire and Mike D’Antoni. Poor guy was stuck with Dirk Nowitzki and Don Nelson, those notorious suppressors of offensive output.
there is not a human alive who could beat hubert at two truths and lie if the subject was fantastically random heterodoxy you are absolutely certain are true
I should probably not engage but how was the Obi trade petty? The happiest person in the world about it was definitely Obi Toppin. He gets to probably start and play alongside Tyrese Haliburton in a contract year instead of standing in the corner for 12 minutes a game.
That’s a good one. I will see if I can come up with one for you later.
For the record, how is this any different from the lot of you who believe Michael Jordan didn’t retire but was suspended for gambling? Spoiler: it’s not, and I’m much more likely to be correct.
His last year with Dallas, Nash had a pretty goddamn good 38.3 AST%. His first year with Phoenix that leapt to 49.2, and never went under 40 again. The bump in his BPM came largely if not entirely from that spike in AST%.
Dallas played a fast pace with Nash, but what D’Antoni did with him was revolutionary.
Rollerskaters celebrate the disco way.
Give your feet the freedom, lets bounce today. Rollerskaters one in front and one behind, bounce left bounce right it’s disco time.
There ain’t no stopping, keep on rocking to the end of the groove. This funky kinda music simply makes you wanna move.
Rollerskaters one in front and one behind, bounce left, bounce right, it’s disco time. Go on and bounce, rock, skate, roll.
yeah, that’s what i’m thinking…
And what evidence do you have to make this claim?
Was Nash suddenly playing way more minutes than he did, seemingly never tired? Was he suddenly jumping a few inches higher? Was he suddenly way faster?
Nope. D’antoni just rightly realized that he wasn’t being used correctly in Dallas and gave him free reign with the offense.
It’s not like Barry Bonds or Maguire or any of those dudes who suddenly were 20 pounds heavier all muscle.
He wasn’t faster. He wasn’t taller. He wasn’t stronger. His stamina didn’t suddenly sky rocker. He just had the ball in his hands way more and was in an offense that utilized his skill set more.
Do you think Brunson was on PED’s this last season because he was better here than in Dallas?
Or do players magically fall of a cliff athletically when they hit 30. Cause there’s such a difference age wise between 28 and 30, right?
I have no doubt many athletes in the NBA have taken PEDs. Maybe Nash did too. But you have no evidence to back this up other than you think it happened because he put up bigger numbers in Phoenix. He wasn’t better though. He was just better utilized.
Google a picture of steve nash in dallas and steve nash in phoenix and tell me waht looks different besides his hair being longer.
Okay… Two Hubert Truths & A Lie:
1. Prince, whose music often referenced the afterlife, faked his death and will be announcing a comeback tour in 2024, which is the 30 year anniversary of Purple Rain.
2. Voting is what keeps the retched two-party system in place, and if we all conscientiously abstained from participating, we could reduce the barrier of entry for new parties that could break the Republican/Democrat stranglehold on government.
3. ptmilo is an artificial intelligence program.
(1) abolish the filibuster
(2) overturn Citizens United
(3) eliminate gerrimandering
(4) implement ranked-choice voting
(5) ban Congress from lobbyist positions for no fewer than six years after leaving office
(6) throw James Dolan in the fucking East River
E is easy to ignore. Unfortunately the people belaboring a reply to him are not.
When I said that the Obi trade was petty, I didn’t mean toward Obi — I meant toward Knick fans. (Though it was marginally petty toward Obi as well).
The reasons why are obvious, so I won’t belabor them.
Wait, you’re smoking gun is that his BPM was 0.3 higher when he was 37? And that it was only higher because his DBPM, which is notoriously noisy, was better while is OBPM was worse? And his VORP was lower because he missed 20 games that season.
It’s his longevity that is questionable.
https://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/54045/three-nba-doping-myths
Myth #3 is what you need to read.
It’s the same issue as in tennis right now.
Here are the ages of the top 20 players, right now, in reverse order.
20
32
21
26
28
23
27
25
26
24
26
24
26
24
25
25
25
20
22
27
20
and then Djokovic
thirty-fucking-six
EPO is still a problem in sport, and so long as the difference between #1 and #10 is tens of millions of dollars a year, EPO will be a problem in sport.
And we get to watch the greats like LeBron play winning ball until their 40s, instead of watching them fall off a cliff around 33. So who’s upset, as a viewer?
You are burying your head in the sand if you think the NBA did not have a huge PED problem in the post-testing era (after 1999). It’s just that they were testing for the anabolics that made guys like David Robinson and Karl Malone look like WWF superstars. They weren’t testing for EPO. And so, of course, because these guys would rather make $25M a year than $2M, they used EPO. Of course they did.
Kobe would fly to Germany for his special blood-doping regimen because he valued winning above all else. You’d be a fool to think that he’d have knowledge of other players (across any sport) using PEDs and have so much ego that he’d rather be second-place than play on an “equal” playing field.
They were all doping, and some of them still are.
I’m with Jowles (on the filibuster et al. — don’t know shit about tennis or PEDs).
ptmilo is too on-point to be AI. An alien, perhaps.
And it took me over 30 seconds to remember how to spell wretched.
Took me more than 5 minutes to realize I typed it wrong and thus couldn’t edit the embarrassing mistake.
1. Build a new jail in DC large enough to house all current and former congress people, senators, presidents, central bankers, and lobbiests. All get lifetime sentences for financial and military crimes against humanity.
2. Drag the bodies of most CEOs from their offices to the streets, (especially financial leaders and neocons) and give them the Joan of Arc treatment live via “X” to ensure we get a few hundred million viewers. The ones we really don’t like should be dipped in honey, sugar and syrup and tied to trees in the Amazon where insects can finish the job. We’ll allow the left/right mainstream media to cover that one because it’s very cruel and we don’t want too many people watching. When the show is over, then we’ll give the media the same treatment and bring in Twitter for huge coverage of the heel turn. woohoo
3. Throw James Dolan in the fucking East River
At least we agree on one of them.
The smoking gun is that he was still good at that age. He was competing against twenty-somethings and still that good.
Am I going to say definitively that he was on PEDs without hard evidence? No. Do I think it’s highly suspicious that a professional athlete in a ruthlessly-athletic sport could be that good at that age over that volume of playing time? Abso-fucking-lutely.
I’m not saying to remove the guy from the record books (even if his MVP awards should be redistributed on the basis of him not being close to the MVP of the league) but it’s highly suspicious.
I’m sure if we look back at the sports “journalism” from the era, we’ll see the same kind of puff pieces about his strength & conditioning routines that we saw about Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong. (And the same we see about Tom Brady’s and Djokovic’s meticulous diets.)
Djokovic is 36 and has won 7 of the last 10 Slams he’s competed in. Made it to the finals (6-1) of two more. Slams are best-of-five, so they’re endurance tests.
He’s 36. And 18 of the other top 20 players are under the age of 28. The only other guy in his 30s is 32 and is Dimitrov, the guy who won the grueling top-8-players round robin/tourney ATP Finals in 2017 (he’s real good when he’s in top form).
Same. I am markedly ambivalent on the subject. Actually I might even be pro PED. I’m kind of mad Derek Jeter didn’t dope, for instance. I didn’t need to see him fall off a cliff like a normal athlete while David Ortiz was still clubbing 38 HRs at age 40.
To put it another way, since Djokovic turned 30, he is 134-9 in best-of-five matches, and one of those losses was a match DQ from accidentally smashing a ball into a line judge’s throat out of anger.
This. Is. Not. Normal.
https://www.nba.com/suns/blog/steve-nashs-most-valuable-player-workout
Found it
If you’re ambivalent about PEDs, why bring it up in the first place? Unless you’re trying to dismiss what he accomplished, which it seems like you are.
“accidentally smashing a ball into a line judge’s throat out of anger.”
Don’t know jack about tennis, but will question your use of the term ‘accidentally.’
(I know, he probably wasn’t actually aiming…)
Is this the same guy who was/is anti-vaccine? So he’s, like, against putting weird shit in his body?
Also:
“In his book Serve to Win, Djokovic described how in 2010 he met with a nutritionist who asked him to hold a piece of bread in his left hand while he pressed down on his right arm. Djokovic claims he was much weaker while holding the bread, and cited this as evidence of gluten intolerance.
And during an Instagram live, he claimed that positive thought could “cleanse” polluted water, adding that “scientists have proven that molecules in water react to our emotions.”
According to Dr David Nunan, a senior researcher at the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at the University of Oxford, “on the balance of probabilities it is highly unlikely that such claims are true – at least not by current conventions of scientific theory and practice.”
My favorite part is they went out and got a senior researcher from Oxford to debunk these.
There are athletes in other sports doing “not normal” things also. Improved sports medicine and nutrition has to be adding something, but imo some of these guys are juicing or getting some other kind of non conventional medical treatment. There are all sorts of illegal things they give to horses that testing can’t pick up. It has to be close to 100% there are human versions of the same things and some people are tempted.
Because someone suggested that Brunson could have a Nash-like trajectory coming in the next 10 years due to the fact that their age 22 to 26 seasons track. Not without PEDs, I said.
Yeah, I think Jowles makes a good point. It’s the longevity that’s more of a red flag than the spike in productivity in his early 30’s. I don’t think a bunch of steroids is what made Nash’s AST% jump from 38 to 48 in one offseason, but long, slow decline phases were a hallmark of steroids-era baseball, and Nash definitely had a long and slow decline phase.
Nash got his MVPs because some people viewed him as more critically important to the success of the Suns than some of the better basketball players at the time. That’s one of those MVP criteria debates that never gets answered. The second thing that contributed was very heavy lobbying by Charles Barkley for him on TNT.
It’s Djokovic and Rafa, btw. We had two players simultaneously doing things that absolutely should not have been possible. What are the odds?
I assure you that the bodybuilding/powerlifting world was one of the most vocal antivax communities out there.
Djokovic’s gluten guru once put a piece of whole wheat bread against Djokovic’s belly and made him flex his arm. Djokovic said that he could feel how much weaker he was, and immediately went gluten-free. With a piece of bread sitting on his skin.
He’d like to have you believe that his longevity is from eating intra-match medjool dates instead of bananas due to the lower glycemic index.
I mean, shit, I love a peanut butter-filled medjool date as much as the next crunchy Portlander, but that ain’t gonna make me superhuman in my late 30s.
Don’t leave Roger and Serena out of the conversation.
And Federer in 2017. They have what are called “therapeutic-use exemptions,” where a player can use banned substances when ordered by a medical professional for acute-injury recovery.
So Federer goes out with a serious knee injury just after Wimbledon 2016, having not won a title in a calendar year for the first time since 2000.
Here’s his results in 2017:
Australian Open WIN
Dubai 500 2R
Indian Wells Masters WIN
Miami Masters WIN
Stuttgart 250 2R
Halle 500 WIN
Wimbledon WIN
Montreal Masters F
US Open QF
Laver Cup 2-0
Shanghai Masters WIN
Basel 500 WIN
ATP Finals SF
Overall 54-5
And yeah, he came back looking awful vascular for a guy pushing 36:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-04kZPdmyRis/WOHt2hyDxFI/AAAAAAAAAY4/6JqXJjY7BZMRuIh6HYp3TUZrINaWdpCyQCEw/s1600/federerarm2017.jpg
And if you look at Serena and don’t see HGH, I don’t know what to tell you.
(I also think that young Serena was an absolute beauty of an athletic woman. I feel sorry for her for whatever dysmorphia led to that much plastic surgery — near unrecognizable now. Cat face.)
Mine is that the University of Oxford felt compelled to name its school the Center for Evidence-based Medicine.
what an odd tangent for you to explore raven…I kind of thought I was our resident purveyor of oddness…i like this excersise in thought…I really liked your newt comment the other day…
to this point though directly – why wouldn’t our emotions alter not only our physiology but also the physical world around us…
just saw the other day there are iguanas in galapogos that can shrink their bodies during periods of scarce resources…
right now i am contemplating and having a strong desire for some filet mignon…there is little doubt that this desire/emotion will manifest itself to a tangible object in the skillet later today…it’s all just science…
been saving up my weekly beef allowance just for a bot of indulgence…
i have a feeling the line between illegal stuff and regular supplements is getting thinner and thinner…
i mean, who wouldn’t want to save a few pints of primo blood in reserve to re-introduce before the playoffs…
I haven’t scrutinized his record beyond majors, but it felt like Roger slowed down enough for his success to be plausible.
He won 16 of his 20 majors in his 20s, for instance. And my faulty memory recalls several tournaments where he seemed as overmatched as a man his age should be.
Rafa, on the other hand, had 8 after he turned 30, and Novak has a ridiculous 12 titles since turning 30. And neither of them ever seem physically overmatched, even when playing a 20 year old wonder like Alcaraz.
sure but even in a world without peds you’d expect to see some crazy outliers in the distribution. kidd and stockton also had long, slow declines, cp3 has hung in. yeah, nash’s trajectory looks a bit flat, but that might be a combination of a guy who could have been even better in his 20s in a different context with the favorable aging curve of all time preternatural-see-the-field geniuses. jokic could probably play until jowles dates z-mans great granddaughter if he didn’t kind of hate the nba.
i mean, it’s surely possible that nash or maybe all of these guys doped, but there’s plenty of variance in age related performance of something as complex as point guarding to dent your certainty without more evidence.
watching nash on defense in particular makes me a bit suspicious of the suspicion, because he sure as hell looked like he was following a pretty typical aging curve on that end in his 30s.
I wrote this before your post on 2017. Never mind.
That someone has a name, it’s Cyber! And go read it again, i said 7 years… SEVEN! Until age 33 season. Or do players fall off a cliff before 33 to match your invented argument?
Definitely. He also had deep teams around him for quite a long time. Complementary, just as Jokic gets guys like Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon who cut and finish.
then I guess you wouldn’t be surprised by how small I can shrink some parts of my own body when I’m out on the town in bumblefuck Coos Bay, OR on a work overnight trip
Very well, Cyber. It still remains that comparing someone to Nash’s age 22 thru 26 seasons is like saying “this guy tracks with what David Ortiz did on the Twins”. Even if neither of them used PEDs, history suggests most guys who perform at those levels don’t have MVP campaigns in their future.
from my understanding there are two options to climate change…
option 1 is adapt – i’m not sure if that giant structure they wanna build across the desert is genius or crazy…
leaning towards genius at the moment…
option 2 is get the fuck away from the equator…go north or south…
seems like you’re in a good spot jowles…
Stockton’s run is insane.
He played in every game for 17 of 19 NBA seasons. One year he “only” played 78, and in 1998 he missed the 18 games with a knee injury.
1,504 games played out of a possible 1,526.
His “decline phase” was 8 years of his BPM gradually dropping from 6.8 to 5.0.
I’m not seeing MVPs in Brunson’s future, and that was not my point at all. My point is that a PG at age 26 can improve a lot, because there are several examples of PGs improving at that age. I just mentioned Nash, and now i’m tired to go get another example, but i’m sure there are more. So following Katz opinion/report, i said i agree with it and think Brunson can still get much better. That’s it. And if he does improve, it’ll be a huge help to bring this team (and Leon’s plan) to new heights (ECF or maybe even the Finals). I’m a Brunson believer.
Yeah, here in europe i’m thinking Norway. 🥶 😀 I like them a lot, they’re kind of outsiders just like Portugal, in the far end of europe, the difference being they’re in the northwest and we’re in the southwest. And their history has some brave folks just like we do here, guys that tried to conquer the seas. ☺️
This is a weird fucking thread. And Jowles, stay the hell away from my great granddaughter until the Knicks win a chip (in-season tournament doesn’t count wise-ass, nor does Vegas or G-League)
That someone has a name, it’s Cyber!
boa noite amigo 🙂
before i forget – i like your new avatar…
yep, canada, scandinavia…shoot – siberia will be “the spot” to be in another sixty years or so…
heard something interesting the other day – one of the things accelerating warming in the northern climes is the emergence of more trees as the ground thaws…more trees trap heat from the sun’s reflection off of snow…
i had never thought of that before…
Edit: crazy question – ever do one of those DNA heritage test things?
this is a weird thread…feels like first day of 2023-2024 season knickerblogger training camp…everyone and their mother coming out of the woodwork today ….lots of pent up rambling banter in the layup line…jowles and hubert throwing down new dunks learned over the summer…swifty and cyber just doing the basics like thibs wants…right hand layup/takeoff on left leg…and vice versa…fundamentals baby…
you are right pepper…the season will soon be upon us…
need to clean up my moniker and get a fresh pic…
“I assure you that the bodybuilding/powerlifting world was one of the most vocal antivax communities out there.”
15-Love, Jowles…
LOL! See Swift? I’m team optimist now! 😉
E’s take on Knick management and ownership was spot on.
Speaking of PED’s, was Anthony Mason juicing? Looking back there were a lot of signs during his career.
Frank is always hurt because he is not a professional athlete. He would probably benefit greatly from some PED’s.
Geo, you’re ready to come to Portugal, start planning my friend. ☺️
Thanks, it’s my two beloved teams – FC Porto and Knicks. Today we had a totally undeserved loss against FC Barcelona so i’m not in the best of moods. 😛
LOL, some decades ago people were punished by going to Siberia, maybe we’re approaching the time where people will be punished by being expelled of Siberia! 😀
Whaaat? 🤔
No, never. Have you? Does it find your ancestors, is that it?
BTW every NBA MVP made it to the conference finals at some point in his career except one.
The ex-Lady Jowles (hey Katie, I bet you’re not reading Knickerblogger anymore but eh maybe, hope you’re doing ok I guess) worked in a shady part of the DNA testing industry when we met. That shit is totally unregulated, fake as hell. You’re essentially paying to give up your fucking genetic code to a company that can do whatever the fuck they want with it. Pure America.
Sorry to those who already bought admission to that farce, but anyone who does it without further research after this post is a rube.
After a pretty good period of bball rest I feel like it’s about time to seriously knickerblog!
Trade for JoJo?
Not much interested…
Waiting for a “better” future upgrade chance.
As You only live once You also sell the farm one time and despite his game is impressive i ain’t a fan of his personality neither believe in his durability and his winning mentality.
In other words:
Fuck the Process
Jordan probably quit because he was mentally exhausted. He didn’t have the mamba mentality. Was Nash on PEDs? idk, but I assume a lot of the league was, and probably still is. Why wouldn’t you be if you were one of these guys?
A lot of anti-vax science is reddit gym bro tier so this does not surprise me
one dude I used to be friends with said he was more a scientist than my friends who are an attending oncologist/hematologist and an attending cardiologist at major research hospitals
he was a personal trainer
I want a whatever Nash and Stockton and Kidd and CP3 were/are taking…
The Ringer ranked us 11th in their season preview and added this lovely little blurb which is making me feel all Swifty inside:
I was shocked to learn our starting lineup outscored the Heat by 15.2 pts/100. Almost seems impossible until you remember Miles McBride was minus 100 in his 7 minutes.
WTF have I just read…..
I just looked through the Ringer article. Overall, it’s not a bad assessment. But I just don’t buy it that Miami and the Clippers are better than the Knicks. Miami is probably worse this year than last year and had a worse regular season than us last year. The Clippers are just never healthy, and their point guard is almost thirty five year old Russell Westbrook. They have a good coach, and won’t be awful, but still they aren’t going to be real contenders.
Yeah I feel like we could be better than that whole tier they put in front of us (Philadelphia, LAC, and Miami). That would place us as high as 8th, which seems like a reasonable ceiling.
Sorry to those who already bought admission to that farce, but anyone who does it without further research after this post is a rube.
i’m not so concerned with the ancestry stuff, i got a good idea of the family story from my folks – i do though find dna migration interesting…i have about 12% coming from central america (narrowed down to a couple of locales)…majority of the rest from both northern in southern europe…
although the recent hits are wales and spain – the dna trace goes to finland (northern) and italy/croatia (southern)…
that united kingdom and surrounding area has an incredible history of human habitation…
kinda like the iberian pennisula – it seems like it was a last stand for a bunch of different peoples over the ages as they got pushed out of other areas…
the people that built Almendres Cromlech – those were some pretty impressive humans…not sure, but they may have been the folks out of turkey who first started domesticating grains…
i think though what made me do the 21 and me thing was (did it at the same time a purchased a fitbit) – i was thinking of some health stuff at the time…
definitely considered having my dna goop out there…oh well…”fuck it” was about my best reason for the action…plus it was like on sale…
geo’s genetic profile:
10% ganga-is khan
10% cheech n chong
10% bob dylan
10% spongebob
10% robert (bob) pirsig
10% bob hope
10% bob n weave
10% bob newhart
10% bob’s big adventure
10% bob marley
Just watched a RJ highlight reel from last year. Came away feeling that there’s hope!
think about it z-man – you gotta be pretty tough to survive and live at the edge, of the world – or what was the edge of the world at the time…
wow – monday monday monday…first of 4 pre-season games…play the celts twice in pre-season – those should be some spirited scrimmages…
oh, and whoever said thibs would find embiid’s breaking point, spot on…
I’ll be at preseason #4 vs. the hapless Wiz. By then we’ll know more….but still not enough.
the wiz, hornets, magic, the pistons – yeah, those are the ones you wanna see…
#you gotta be pretty tough to survive and live at the edge, of the world – or what was the edge of the world at the time…#
This one could go to RJ too who survived in a pretty hostile environment, the starved for success knicks fans!
#Just watched a RJ highlight reel from last year. #
That’s even harder to do!
If you can watch RJ highlights and feel hope You can move any mountain!!!
;-p
now you have me curious jowles…came across this reference human geographic adaptation…the data came from the david reich lab, the analysis is from andrea, who has a very good resume…
Jowles is the Steve Bannon of KB’s left flank. Don’t trust anything he says.
I’m actually thrilled that we see so much of the Celts so quickly (npi). Not so much to catch them early, but just to see what their team looks like at full strength.
almost time knew your nicks…any final preparations before the games begin?
look at the evil that is – genetic science:
yeah, this is kind of scary – they are just handing this stuff out to about anyone…
this is worse than the how to make a “you know what” (not saying the word and having whoever knocking on the door) manual that folks where re-printing at work…
for the record – i never ever myself engaged in any such activity…and if you happen to have a foto of me doing anything wrong – it’s all fake…all fake…nothing to see here…
“almost time knew your nicks…any final preparations before the games begin?”
I dunno but I bet the food will be awesome!
Back in my dorkier days I had a holier-than-thou attitude about the cheaters and dopers, but I’ve come full half-circle on it. As it is, nerds with excel spreadsheets who can’t run, can’t jump, can’t pass, and can’t shoot have done their best to take the fun, the athleticism, and the spontaneity out of pro sports. And yet here we are with our asterisks and our hall-of-fame denials punishing the guys who we asked to entertain us for being too entertaining. Steve Nash was entertaining as hell to watch play basketball. I’d rather watch him play for 20 years than watch an endless cycle of Derrick Rose types burst onto the scenes than rapidly depreciate due to the physical strains of being a short player in a tall-man’s game.
#almost time knew your nicks…any final preparations before the games begin?#
My #special# beers and snacks should be bought soon!
I’m a man of tradition!
;-D
#I dunno but I bet the food will be awesome!#
ALL IN!!!