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Knicks Morning News (2023.07.08)

  • Bradley, Frazier, Carmelo? Knicks Legends Sound Off on Number Retirement – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Saturday, July 8, 2023 7:00:00 AM

    Bradley, Frazier, Carmelo? Knicks Legends Sound Off on Number Retirement  Sports Illustrated

  • Knicks vs. 76ers GAMEDAY Summer Leaguee Preview: How to … – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Saturday, July 8, 2023 1:25:29 AM

    Knicks vs. 76ers GAMEDAY Summer Leaguee Preview: How to …  Sports Illustrated

  • The Knicks have made some moves, but what comes next is a question mark – Newsday
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 11:33:45 PM

    The Knicks have made some moves, but what comes next is a question mark  Newsday

  • The Knicks and Pacers finalized the Obi Toppin trade – BVM Sports
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 10:29:17 PM

    The Knicks and Pacers finalized the Obi Toppin trade  BVM Sports

  • The Knicks and Pacers finalized the Obi Toppin trade – Posting and Toasting
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 10:01:18 PM

    The Knicks and Pacers finalized the Obi Toppin trade  Posting and Toasting

  • NBA Analyst Throws Gas On Joel Embiid Trade To Knicks Fire – NBA Analysis Network
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 8:01:31 PM

    NBA Analyst Throws Gas On Joel Embiid Trade To Knicks Fire  NBA Analysis Network

  • Knicks 2023 NBA Summer League schedule, 3 names to watch – AMNY
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 7:29:27 PM

    Knicks 2023 NBA Summer League schedule, 3 names to watch  AMNY

  • Indiana Pacers officially acquire Obi Toppin via trade with New York Knicks – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 7:22:16 PM

    Indiana Pacers officially acquire Obi Toppin via trade with New York Knicks  Sports Illustrated

  • ‘Typical Knicks!’: Chris Broussard Talks Joel Embiid Trade Rumors – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 5:15:50 PM

    ‘Typical Knicks!’: Chris Broussard Talks Joel Embiid Trade Rumors  Sports Illustrated

  • Knicks predicted to pursue another Warriors free agent after losing Obi Toppin – Daily Knicks
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 5:00:10 PM

    Knicks predicted to pursue another Warriors free agent after losing Obi Toppin  Daily Knicks

  • Knicks And Pacers Officially Complete Trade – Fastbreak on FanNation – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 4:21:49 PM

    Knicks And Pacers Officially Complete Trade – Fastbreak on FanNation  Sports Illustrated

  • Immanuel Quickley Extension: How Much Are Knicks Offering? – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 2:25:18 PM

    Immanuel Quickley Extension: How Much Are Knicks Offering?  Sports Illustrated

  • Knicks’ Josh Hart, Stephen A Smith trade hilarious blows on Twitter – ClutchPoints
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 1:52:47 PM

    Knicks’ Josh Hart, Stephen A Smith trade hilarious blows on Twitter  ClutchPoints

  • Villanova Teammate: Donte DiVincenzo Will ‘Fit Right In’ With Knicks – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 12:06:02 PM

    Villanova Teammate: Donte DiVincenzo Will ‘Fit Right In’ With Knicks  Sports Illustrated

  • The Knicks may have a lowkey Summer League gem – Empire Sports Media
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 11:57:48 AM

    The Knicks may have a lowkey Summer League gem  Empire Sports Media

  • Revisiting Quentin Grimes’ 2022 Summer League – Posting and Toasting
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 11:22:04 AM

    Revisiting Quentin Grimes’ 2022 Summer League  Posting and Toasting

  • Knicks castaway Obi Toppin lauded as ideal for Pacers – New York Daily News
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 10:55:58 AM

    Knicks castaway Obi Toppin lauded as ideal for Pacers  New York Daily News

  • Latest Immanuel Quickley extension update gives insight into Knicks’ plans – Daily Knicks
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 10:00:42 AM

    Latest Immanuel Quickley extension update gives insight into Knicks’ plans  Daily KnicksNBA rumors: Knicks considering major decision on Immanuel Quickley  FanSidedSources: Knicks holding to strict price point in trade talks for Damian Lillard, other top players  Yahoo Sports

  • The Knicks have one key piece they must be willing to trade – Empire Sports Media
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 9:59:00 AM

    The Knicks have one key piece they must be willing to trade  Empire Sports Media

  • Knicks Land Baylor’s Ja’Kobe Walter in 2024 NBA Mock Draft With … – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 9:45:19 AM

    Knicks Land Baylor’s Ja’Kobe Walter in 2024 NBA Mock Draft With …  Sports Illustrated

  • 4 Most intriguing Knicks players to watch at Summer League – Daily Knicks
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 8:00:41 AM

    4 Most intriguing Knicks players to watch at Summer League  Daily Knicks

  • Summer League Knicks: Keep an eye on Isaiah Roby – Posting and Toasting
    [news.google.com] — Friday, July 7, 2023 7:54:47 AM

    Summer League Knicks: Keep an eye on Isaiah Roby  Posting and Toasting

  • 56 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.07.08)”

    @KFNINJ

    My comment about “boredom” wasn’t directed at you, it was a (not well done) try at self-irony… 🙂

    You know, my senselessness of talking about small things like 2-way contracts instead of more constructive, and especially never-talked-before, arguments like RJ Barrett usage, his eFG% and margin of improvement, how much OG is better and so on… 😉

    Without a first rounder and with Leon (reasonably) taking his time before the next “big move” It’ll be a long summer… 😀

    ESPN’s comical hype train could hurt Wemby a lot.

    Doncic was the more “ready to play” young euro ever, expecting the same numbers from Wemby is not fair, but his potential is huge (a bit like Cam Reddish’s… LOL).

    He’s a 19-year old physical anomaly with very good coordination, “modern” fundamentals, out-of-this-world lenght, a type of play more suited for people a foot shorter than him…
    … and he can slip through a crack in the floor like Kate Moss in Family Guy.

    Maybe he’ll become an all-time great, maybe he’ll end up with Shawn Bradley’s career, maybe he’ll get a couple of All-NBA and become “just a star”.

    I’ve always been doubtful about super-skinny guys and he’s no exception, banging under the boards could be a problem.

    But he’ll be in the hands of NBA’s nutritionists and trainers so he’ll round into a better, more solid, body (but his feet probably will be a danger spot for all his career) and Pop will do the rest.

    For now he will block shots like Reagan’s SDI, he’ll steal rebounds from impossible distance, will hit a three here and there and go coast-to-coast enough to feed the highlights machine.

    And the Spurs will probably be in the lottery again (good for them!).

    P.S.

    Always keep in mind:

    .463; .438; .426

    eFG% of Giannis, LeBron and Dirk in their rookie years
    (just for info, Banchero was at .465).

    Max, I know the comment wasn’t directed at me. I was just suggesting there was someone else who shared your interests in this sort of thing

    I watched until Wemby was subbed out the first time. Contrary to the general opinion, I was impressed. He made one shot from his off hand when he was double teamed that very few people can do. His rebounds were good. I don’t think the team knew how to play with him. In summer league most bigs don’t have his skill set or play far away from the basket. So the team looked a little uncoordinated. He did fine given that.

    We can call us “the 2-wayers”! 😉

    Probably my fascination with “lesser” players is connected to the fact that many of them later come to play in Europe (where some become stars) and I like to look well-informed with my friends 😀

    It sounds good to me.

    I suspect some summer league players will end up there.

    wemby will be fine… being skinny is not a deficiency in the nba… this isn’t football…. the name of the game is length speed and quickness… all those things help you get to the ball and the hoop in a variety of ways…

    relying on strength is actually a red flag as bully ball doesn’t work in the nba as it does anywhere else as you eventually are fighting against other nba men who are most definitely going to be as strong as you and most definitely going to just put their longer arms up and that’s that….

    he does actually need some work down low to finish around the hoop and is a bit perimeter happy so he’s definitely not a finished product but the spurs are a team that will absolutely emphasize the right things as they did with duncan…. he comes in with some rudimentary moves and some decent reaction timing for his size and that alone will carry…

    is he going to be an all star from the jump? maaybe.. but probably not… but guys like anthony davis and evan mobley and chris bosh who were also impossibly skinny and mostly raw came in and were rather decent from the getgo just relying on their physical tools and wemby will probably be better than all of them…. i cant see a world where he’s actually worse…

    If Cleveland had put Mobley on RJ and had Allen waiting for him at the rim he probably wouldn’t have scored. Same with Miami- put RJ at the top of the scouting report and he’s cooked.

    RJ Trutherism and RJ Truthers will be kicking around Knickerblogger well into the next decade.

    Sorry pally, but the RJ Truthers are the people who insist he’s good. Had a -3.1 BPM and shot .310 from 3PT last year while hardly ever managing a steal or block.

    Career eFG+ is 89, career TS+ is 90.

    I’d like to hear a “yeah I was wrong this guy sucks” if he continues to play like this because there’s no disputing putrid statistics like those.

    This brain synchronizing thing seems like it may be happening in team sports and could be the next big thing if scientists can start quantifying it.

    Imagine choosing your draft prospects, or role platers based on the quality of their brains syncing with your star.

    Had a -3.1 BPM and shot .310 from 3PT last year while hardly ever managing a steal or block.

    iirc last year rj produced only the 3rd season in recorded nba history with 1100+ field goal attempts and fewer than 50 stocks.

    Alcaraz v Jarry match thread 😉

    Hope you all are having a lovely summer.

    The first apple of E’s eye was Frank Ntilikina, which is funny because while “LCHB” might be the dumbest term ever used here, if it applies to anyone on the planet it’s that guy.

    To my knowledge, E has not ever said he may have gotten that one wrong. Apropos of nothing, Frank Ntilikina is 24 and without an NBA contract at the moment.

    The second was Cam Reddish. When he hit his first few shots in Portland we got nightly TS% updates. Apparently the stat isn’t useless when Cam Reddish hits a handful of threes. Alas, the updates conspicuously ceased and Cam Reddish was one of very few top-10 picks to not get extended the qualifying offer.

    To my knowledge, no “oof, swung and missed there” from E on that front either.

    All this to say, there’s no amount of sucktitude from RJ that will ever lead E to admit he was wrong. The reason he goes to great lengths to avoid making anything resembling a specific prediction as to how good RJ will be is because that’s the kind of thing one can be held to in the future, and then you lose some credibility when you say you’re smarter than everyone else.

    To be clear, I have gotten many, many things wrong in the past and I will in the future. Thing is, I also don’t hold myself up as the board’s lone Brave Truth Teller and Basketball Knower. So it’s not really any sweat off my back when that happens, but I could see why one would go to great lengths to avoid it if that was their shtick.

    utah’s paul reed contract is clever. can’t remember seeing that trick before.

    “LCHB” might be the dumbest term ever used here, if it applies to anyone on the planet it’s that guy.

    It doesn’t, because “hustlebunny” doesn’t mean “someone who hustles.” It means “someone who is perceived to hustle and whose contribution is perceived to materially include said hustle.”

    (And then of course come playoff time, the faultiness of said perception becomes clear to any honest watcher, as neither Quentin Grimes nor Josh Hart “played harder” than anyone else in the two playoff series. Neither will Donte DiVincenzo.)

    To my knowledge, no “oof, swung and missed there” from E on that front either.

    Because there was no swing and no miss because there wasn’t ever any prediction. All I ever said is that I liked Cam Reddish’s risk/reward profile and I still do. So do the Lakers. It’s essentially the same thing with RJ Barrett.

    Cam Reddish had a 561 TS% on 17.1 USG at age 23 last season. He very well may still pan out. He of course may not.

    credibility when you say you’re smarter than everyone else.

    You seem to have gotten into your mind that I said and think this. I have no idea why.

    ‘Had a -3.1 BPM and shot .310 from 3PT last year while hardly ever managing a steal or block.

    iirc last year rj produced only the 3rd season in recorded nba history with 1100+ field goal attempts and fewer than 50 stocks.’

    But usage!!!!!!!!

    And for the record, our first hustlebunny was the mopheaded one, our very own mopheaded hustlebunny Ron Baker. He who ran around a lot and, well… no, that’s about it.

    Between Roby, Martin, and Keels who scores the most points today?

    I went back and perused last year’s offseason threads. All in all, I feel really good about the positions I took then, even with a clunker here and there.

    TNFH, during some of the more intense exchanges re: Leon, you said repeatedly that you would modify your stances on various things if things turned out differently than you thought they would. I won’t get into specifics, but glad (and not surprised) to see that you have stayed true to that. As you pointed out above, I doubt that you will ever see that from E because, well, he’s E.

    One thing that stood out to me was when Mike K jumped down my throat for having the temerity to describe Brunson as a “winner.” Seemed harsh at the time, and more so in retrospect. But whatever, I’m very pleased with the outcome of the season and the situation looking ahead. There’s been plenty of suboptimal moves, but Brunson is a grand slam that puts most of those in the rearview mirror for me. As JK points out, we still don’t have enough chrome and leather, but I’m pretty confident that it is coming, and that this “rudderless mess” is actually heading somewhere that have most of us (ExcEpt for onE ExtrEmE outliEr) enjoying the ride.

    I like that Keels and Martin are so young…not the same as draft picks, but worth checking out. Roby is auditioning for Obi’s role, home he distinguishes himself as a possible alternative there. I think Martin is going to score the most.

    Alcaraz is the real deal. Wemby wishes he had that kind of trajectory even if you can fit Carlitos inside one of his sneakers. True generational talent.

    I just don’t see that with Wemby. I see a star for sure but not a top 5 guy.

    As for RJ, i am happy to wait till next year to see if the fifth year is the charm or to be proven wrong. I mean, if you aren’t good five years in…..

    I think Martin is going to score the most.

    I’m going with Keels myself, based on pretty much nothing.

    Projections of improvement are about probabilities. You are not necessarily right or wrong based on the results for an individual player. Only long term results involving many players will determine your ability to project relative to random results.

    This was posted the other day by a leading poker player. It’s well worth a read.

    Phil Galfond
    @PhilGalfond

    The best thing poker teaches you is how to not be results-oriented, because that’s crucial for good decision-making in all aspects of life.

    The worst thing poker teaches you is how to not be results-oriented, because everyone else in the world is and it’s very annoying.

    What does it mean to be results oriented?

    Most things in life are probabilistic, which means that taking an action doesn’t guarantee a specific outcome.

    In other words, you don’t often know what’s going to happen next!

    For example, if you have two routes to get to the grocery store that are similar in length, they won’t always take the same time as each other.

    Let’s say that you think taking the freeway is faster midday, but slower during rush hour.

    You’ve taken those routes a hundred times and it seems like you’re right. Almost always, the trips take what you expect them to.

    One day, you get in your friend’s car to head to the store. It’s rush hour.

    They begin to take the freeway, so you say, “Oh, the side roads are faster around now.”

    They oblige, and you get stuck behind an accident on a small road. Your trip takes twice as long as it should.

    Unlucky

    “I knew the other way was better. I shouldn’t have listened to you,” your friend says.

    Your friend is judging your decision by the result. This is being results-oriented.

    98 times out of 100, you’d have been right. On average, you helped your friend make the best decision.

    But now your friend blames you and won’t listen to you again.

    Not only is your friend annoying – they are also going to keep driving the wrong way during rush hour from now on, wasting hours of their life.

    Don’t Be The Friend

    Assessing decisions properly doesn’t mean ignoring the outcomes.

    The outcomes are evidence, but not proof.

    You drove the two routes countless times. You observed the difference in traffic at different times of the day.

    You based your theory on sound logic, then gathered evidence over time to grow more and more confident in that theory.

    This is how decisions should be evaluated.

    When faced with any decision, all we can do is make the best choice we can with the information we have at the time.

    If it doesn’t go the way we hoped, it doesn’t mean we were wrong.

    It’s just another bit of information to add to the decision-making process next time.

    Why aren’t we talking about Zion?

    Supposedly Berman, formerly of the Post Tweeted about Leon’s potential interest the other day and since then there have been other reports that he may actually be available.

    Cam Reddish had a 561 TS% on 17.1 USG at age 23 last season. He very well may still pan out. He of course may not.

    I’ve been with E on Cam.

    IMO, there’s undeniable talent there. He can create shots and do things that most other young players can’t. My argument has been that his development has been severely hampered by injuries (kind of like KP). So his development may come later than for the typical young player. Personally, I thought he was outplaying RJ for awhile for the Knicks until he got hurt, rushed back, was terrible in that one game, and went into the doghouse. The biggest problem he has is between his ears and not in his talent. He appears to be a bit of a knucklehead. He does a lot of dumb things. He also thinks he’s entitled to minutes and way better than he actually is. He’s a low basketball IQ player at this stage and maybe permanently.

    @wojespn
    The Atlanta Hawks are trading TyTy Washington, Usman Garuba, Rudy Gay and a second-round pick to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Patty Mills, sources tell ESPN. Hawks save $4.5M in the deal.

    Not the first trade of the summer for every player in the deal, they’d better wait to rent a house…

    He can create shots and do things that most other young players can’t.

    He was assisted on 75% of his 2fgs on the Knicks, he cannot create his own shot.

    He played the exact same role as Quentin Grimes but was much much worse at it.

    Cam is a tire fire at trying to create his own shot, and was even in college. People just never took that out of his high school scouting report.

    You are not necessarily right or wrong based on the results for an individual player.

    Yeah, but sometimes the results are a strong hint your process sucked. The overwhelming majority who thought Frank and Cam sucked may have been employing a better process than their proponents.

    He was assisted on 75% of his 2fgs on the Knicks, he cannot create his own shot.

    He played the exact same role as Quentin Grimes but was much much worse at it.

    It’s hard to debate things that statistics do not measure.

    If you give Cam the ball and say “Cam, go get me a basket”, he’s going to be able to create a good shot in situations that many NBA players can’t. The problem is that kind of talent can lead to a lot of terrible shot decisions.

    Remember what D’Antoni said about Nate?

    “The best thing about Nate is that he can get his own shot any time he wants. The worst thing about Nate is that he can get his own shot any time he wants”.

    It’s the same thing with Cam, but with Cam we are talking about a particularly low basketball IQ. He’s going to turn the ball over a lot trying to do more than is sensible and also take some horrible shots.

    Grimes is on the opposite end of the spectrum completely. He’s a better player because he has a very high IQ, is a plus defender, and stays within his talent/skill level in his shot selection. But if you need a basket, you are never going to give the ball to Grimes and say, “go get me a hoop”.

    Wait, did Berman retire last year and I didn’t notice? Too funny.

    Can’t really tell if Keels is still fat but he did brick a layup off the side of the backboard

    Ricky Council looks pretty good for the Sixers. Only Jeffries seems to have any offensive game on our side. Keels looks like crap as a PG.

    Yeah, but sometimes the results are a strong hint your process sucked. The overwhelming majority who thought Frank and Cam sucked may have been employing a better process than their proponents.

    Well, you know I’m not going to agree on Frank because imo he was clearly a plus defender that could switch, disrupt passing lanes, and actually impact a game on just that side. He was also a willing and quick ball mover. Those are all undervalued attributes in the NBA and especially by fans.

    A player like that doesn’t need to score a lot. He just needs to be an efficient 3 point shooter.

    So what was the probability of that?

    I can’t be sure, but it sure wasn’t remote . He was not that bad from 3 even early on and his form was fine. But he was obviously badly misused, often injured, and never did develop. That was the result, not the probability from the start.

    Wait, did Berman retire last year and I didn’t notice? Too funny.

    He did retire, but he occasionally tweets something Knicks related.

    “Why aren’t we talking about Zion?”

    I think it’s because it’s too frightening a concept to discuss. I was very “Let’s wait for Zion” about a year and a half ago. Now… I just don’t even want to think about it.

    Talk about the great black hole of evidence, proof, process, and results…

    I don’t think the Knicks made a shot outside the paint in the 1st quarter.

    My eyes are bleeding, I-Hart sitting next to Thibs was the best thing of the game so far… 🙂

    Roby is certainly…working on his shot.

    I can’t be sure, but it sure wasn’t remote

    Maybe, just maybe, the results are a hint that the 99% of NBA observers who thought he was a total non-entity were on to something.

    There’s no one on our summer league team that’s going to have an impact on the Knicks.

    There’s no one on our summer league team that’s going to have an impact on the Knicks.

    But the offensive sets are exactly the same 😀

    Edit: Watch! A backdoor!

    well the summer knicks aren’t going to give us anything worth talking about maybe we should go back to cam reddish

    LOL saw a great Knicks trade rumor by overseeing a guy's phone at Summer League almost tempted to report it out (not gonna pass it along without proper sourcing).— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) July 8, 2023

    6-8 250 20 years-old Michael Foster Jr. is my guy on this team.

    Power Forwards baby!

    It’s nice to be so hungry for basket that we spend time watching “this”…

    Woj:

    After the trade with Atlanta, OKC has 35 draft picks in the next 7 years (15 1sts, 20 2nds)

    Lost in the fuss last night and with his injury but that was a heck of statline from Amen. I actually didn’t realize he was a guard. He looks huge out there. 3 steals and 4 blocks in 28 minutes has me intrigued.

    Also, Scoot’s physicality is pretty striking. That guy is really athletic. Reminds me of DRose a bit.not sure how good he will be but he is very dynamic no doubt.

    Pop just signed a 5-years contract extensione with the Spurs.

    Wemby’s like Cocoon’s pool.

    I see Wemby as a PF in the Tim Duncan/Kevin Durant mode. More the former, given pop and Tim in the house.

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