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Ranking the 4 worst coaching hires in New York Knicks history Daily Knicks
68 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.06.06)”
Anyone feeling like a big dose of Knicks PTSD this morning, click on the four worst coaches article above (which also can lead you to the worst draft picks).
Ugh.
I didn’t realize the nba set a league wide attendance record this year, with arenas averaging 97% capacity.
…which means it’s time to expand. Who do you think deserves a team? Obviously Seattle deserves to get one back but any others?
Analysis of players the Knicks could be interested in in this year’s draft.
https://www.thestrick.land/strick/introducing-perrin-system-knicks-nba-draft
I missed this yesterday. 🙂
I’m going to give you a serious answer instead.
I would offer Frank a cheap 2 year contract with a team option in year 2 if he agreed to shoot 1000 3s per day in the off season and continued that on off days during the season.
I would consider trading for KP, but cost would clearly be a factor and I’d have to add another quality player/defender on the wing in combination. So my thinking would be the same as with Towns. I’m not moving Mitch unless I get a defender back at C or upgrade the perimeter defense in another deal.
I’d keep Phil in my contact list and shoot the breeze with him on basketball issues, strategy, and Knicks players from time to time.
https://theathletic.com/4579383/2023/06/06/nba-offseason-trades-draft-2023/
The Athletic had Katz, our old friend Vorkunov, and James Edwards III draft teams in order of how attractive their trade package could be for a star, assuming none of these teams would trade their best player in the process. (i.e., with the Spurs, you can have anything but Wemby.) OKC is of course at the top of the list, while we’re only down in 10th, though Vorkunov praises our package. I guess our advantage is that we are more likely to go for such a trade than a bunch of the teams ranked above us (OKC included), and we have the advantage of said star almost certainly wanting to come — and wanting to extend — here, whereas the Jazz would always have to worry on that front.
To add to that, here’s part of Vorkunov’s blurb on our potential package:
Boo! Play the game, Strat!
ptmilo said: “bridge too far. vincent is leading them in 3pt makes and seems to be shooting over his head.”
Gabe Vincent was an excellent 3pt shooter in college, shooting 38% or better in 3 out of 4 years. In his 4 years with MIA he has had a 3PAr of .629, suggesting that 3pt shooting is the main reason why he is in the league, regardless of his percentage. He didn’t play much his first two years (738 total minutes). Last year he shot 37% for the season but only 30% in what was essentially his first playoffs in a backup role. This year he is a much more confident player, and that is reflected in his 3pt efficiency, which again, is his calling card. Being that he’s finally a top-of-rotation player and now has two legit NBA seasons under his belt, I would argue that this is how he’s supposed to be shooting, and that this is much more reflective of who he will be going forward.
“martin has been an up and down 3pt shooter, so his best year isn’t too convincing.”
Not really, he has averaged 38% from 3 over the two-year period since he became a rotation player on nearly 40 attempts. He also struggled in his first playoff run last year. His shooting this playoffs does seem a tad outlier-ish but credit to him for being clutch.
“if you take the career averages of their shooters and weight them by playoff attempts, you literally get an expectation of 36.15%, almost exactly league average for the regular season. if you look at the “quality” of their actual playoff shots on synergy or wherever (catch and shoot, wide open, etc) it get somewhat worse, and you’d expect a bit below 36%. i think the 39.2% in the playoffs is at least as anomalous as the 34.4% regular season for this particular bunch. of course, this includes missing herro, which is also a form of bad luck.”
But again, this is misleading. Like Vincent, Max Strus (.747 career 3PAr) and Duncan Robinson (.858 3PAr) are 3PT specialists. That’s what they do! That’s all they do!
“but that’s a well worn discussion the elides the important contribution i meant to make to the literature here before fucking it up. yes, miami has had 3 pt fortune/variance/greatness from their own shooting and their opponents. but that shooting difference would have resulted in far “extra” net wins if you distributed the variance naively, the joint timing of the variance has really amped up the effect.””
One of the best coaches in NBA history has hung his hat on his players stepping up in the context of the playoffs and doing what they do best. Is it surprising (let alone shocking) that he’s winning that bet?
The fact that they are doing it within the same 3PAr parameters further confirms that this is not a team that is doing anything outside of it’s fundamental design and comfort zone. They are just executing at a high level because they are a mentally tough, cohesive, experienced, and well-coached group of players who know their roles and are confident within their roles. They make adjustments but the underlying game plan remains the same. Nothing beyond Caleb Martin’s crazy efficiency (and his 3PAr is elevated so he is the most outlier-ish) should be all that surprising. I think his unexpectedly exceptional play is the main difference between being certainly being eliminated by the Celts and probably earlier. Everything else is according to plan.
BTW, Jimmy and Bam, by far their highest usage players other than Herro, are both well below their regular season efficiency numbers. My guess is that if you pencil in their expected efficiency, that would somewhat balance out the 3PT variance. In fact, that’s sort of what got them one Jimmy Butler wide-open 3pt make away from the NBA finals last year, isn’t it?
Wow, earth-shattering news in the world of golf!
As someone who lives in Baltimore, I’d love a team here. Pittsburgh and St. Louis would make a ton of sense. The most likely options are either Vegas or another Canadian city.
Every golfer who didn’t take the Saudi money has to feel like a chump right now. Maybe I am reading it wrong but seems that way.
Djoker just did some very cool stuff in the second set tiebreaker.
Seems that way to me, too. I’m not a golf fan, but was fascinated to see that divide between the ones who took the cash and the ones who made a principled stand. And now the latter group appears to have gotten massively screwed.
I think the argument that there is dirty foreign money bankrolling all major sports is pretty valid. Think about what happened when Daryl Morey had the audacity to call out Chinese oppression and corruption. Not to mention that the PGA itself has had associations with the Saudis over the years. So my position throughout has been pretty neutral. Professional golf is such a strange world to begin with, and it has such a sordid history of racism, sexism, and elitism that it hard for me to weigh in on either side on moral grounds.
“And now the latter group appears to have gotten massively screwed.”
Yes and no. The PGA has already had to give in to the pressure of LIV by changing its payout structure and purses. It could be argued that the LIV-resistant players have benefitted massively. They will make a ton more money than they would have, and don’t have the stain of selling out on their resume.
I didn’t really notice any dispute about anything resembling principles…
just seemed like a bunch of wealthy competitive pro athletes going back and forth at each other – over money…
rory seemed to come out looking especially foolish…
I thought that maybe when I got older I might be able to appreciate golf as a spectator sport, but… nope. I understand that it’s difficult to play and that these guys are great at what they do, but I just don’t get the whole concept of sitting on a couch and watching people play golf.
Maybe it’s the kind of thing where you can appreciate it as a spectator sport if you actually play the game? Like the same way musicians like to listen to Frank Zappa and King Crimson?
Non-musicians don’t like Zappa and King Crimson? Serious question.
One can quibble with the rankings in the article Alan posted, but I think they’re at least sensible and paint a mostly positive picture of our trade prospects.
Because of our “hybrid” approach we’ll never have the best trade package, but when you consider that stars on the move tend to have a lot of say in their destination, and that a lot of the teams with better packages than us won’t be looking to make this kind of trade any time soon, I think we’re in a pretty good spot.
The $64,000 question is whether we eat into our trade package for a legitimate-but-non-star upgrade(s) or we keep our powder dry, which risks waiting for the perfect opportunity that never comes.
That is indeed the big question, Noble. And it also puts more pressure on Leon to keep rolling over assets so he has inexpensive players and/or future picks to include in such a deal. The one good thing about having four protected picks is that they still exist in the future and can thus be thrown into a later deal. But if, say, the Dallas pick and the Washington pick both convey next year, in addition to our own, and there still isn’t a worthwhile star available in that offseason, our FO will probably try to kick multiple cans down the road.
Well, I mean, certainly there are many fans of technically proficient musicians like Zappa and King Crimson who are not musicians themselves. It just seems to me like if you actually PLAY golf, you might enjoy watching it on a different level than a complete layperson, the same way a musician might watch a performance of “The Black Page” and be able to appreciate just how difficult it is to play that piece.
“Maybe it’s the kind of thing where you can appreciate it as a spectator sport if you actually play the game? Like the same way musicians like to listen to Frank Zappa and King Crimson?”
Sort of. What is interesting is that being proficient as a jazz musician is a similar skillset as that required in golf. You don’t have to be in particularly good physical condition, it is more about having the skill to improvise with precision within a given context. Pro golfers can “noodle” with a golf club and choose from an array of possible shots based on both obvious and subtle variables, many that weekend duffers don’t even come close to considering. The game they play is hardly like the experience of the vast, vast majority of golfers. Just the interactions between a pro and his/her caddie are fascinating…I mean, you get to consult deeply with an advisor about every aspect of a given playing situation before every single stroke…there’s really nothing like that in other major sports.
But surely, if you play the game even at a low level of proficiency, you can relate to what a pro is considering and executing (or fucking up) far better than if you don’t play.
Agreed.
I have found it very enjoyable to attend, though.
I went to two US Opens… the first one in Bethpage, Long Island; and the one in Shinnecock. It’s basically a long day of drinking outside in the summer.
Bethpage is a public course and that was a very fun, rowdy crowd.
JK47,
Any thoughts on Little Barrie?
I was recently watching “Better Call Saul” with my girlfriend (she never saw it). I heard the following track in one of the episodes and fell in love with the guitar playing. I listened to a few other things and liked those also. I wouldn’t call him a great musician, but some styles just hit you right between the eyes. Some Hendrix and most of David Gilmour and Mark Knopfler do that for me. I immediately took out my Strat and started figuring this one out. Right between my eyes, but I really can’t explain it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vG26vldp8s
The more I read the more I’m starting to think the Knicks are going run it back and not do much else besides add a little depth to the bench and possibly trade for late 1st or early 2nd rounder if there’s someone still on the board they like. They aren’t going to make any moves just to make moves even though I’m pretty sure they understand the issues well. Any move they make has to make them better now and long term. There aren’t any obvious targets right now that are clearly going to be available. They may punt the off season and look again at the trade deadline. I even feel that way about Obi, who everyone seems to think is going to be traded. It makes no sense to trade him unless you have a better backup PF. I’m not sure Sims is the guy.
Any NYC KBers interested in watching one of the finals game at a bar or something? I’m in town til next Tuesday and wouldn’t mind getting to know more of you in person!
Also, I think we should make a play for Alec Burks, so long as the cost isn’t much more than a couple of seconds. He’d really thread the needle on “reasonable acquisition that fulfills a team need that also doesn’t empty our cupboard for a star.” What do you think Detroit would charge, since they’re finally trying to win but clearly aren’t a play-in team just yet?
I like golf but I don’t play it. And tennis but I do. When Jack Nicklaus won the Masters at age 46 it was considered one of the greatest sporting achievements. Same with Sampras getting his 13th slam. I agreed with that take both moments, wrong given what has happened in retrospect. I guess I really like any sport and the best at it. It is about the players at the time. Looking back I can revise my opinions but not my enjoyment.
Can’t really disagree here. The only question will be if they move Obi or not. He sure seems like a perfect fit on that Pacers team, and they really don’t need Duarte now.
And for draft targets, Kobe Brown would make a good Obi replacement. He’s a grizzled senior and does a bit of everything: passes, defends, and shoots well. And he’s got that “dawg” in him. He can probably be had anywhere from the late first to the mid second round.
Sounds like we might sign DiVincenzo, too.
“Sounds like we might sign DiVincenzo, too.”
All I’m seeing is unsubstantiated clickbait. Anything more than that?
Yes, I’m in Brooklyn but can go wherever as long as I don’t have court the next day.
There’s a chance DET declines his option if they want to open up max space. I doubt it though.
It kills me that we salary dumped him instead of Cam’s sorry ass.
having golfed Gamble Sands in the past month, I can confirm the adage “golf is a good walk ruined”
Or, as Rosie O’Donnell put it back in her stand-up days. “Golf isn’t a sport. It’s men in ugly pants, walking.”
Just in basketball terms, I’d have no issue with bringing Alec Burks back. I’m not sure what that would entail. The Pistons have a team option.
I enjoy watching the Majors and the Ryder Cup. High pressure golf is fun. Watching guys duel it out on the back nine on Sunday is very good tv. Actually just watching the whole thing unfold, it’s like a horse race in slow motion.
I grew up playing golf but gave it up because I never improved and didn’t really have time for it once I had kids. But I have a good sense of how freaking amazing these guys are at the game. It’s absolutely remarkable what they do.
I also think there is a bit of an ASMR quality to the telecasts, at least until Jim Nantz drives me bonkers with his High Priest of the Hallowed Greens routine.
But tennis is way way better for me.
do you mean alec burks instead of signing jason hart, or in addition?
with RJ still on the roster…
Owen, I was about to theorize an ASMR component to the broadcast. Only occurred to me today when wondering why people watch it.
Mark Twain, I believe, not an adage
it’s like a horse race in slow motion
🙂
one of my favorite beaches is carmel by the sea…if you make a right when you get to the water it extends beneath pebble beach…i enjoy hunting for golf balls along the beach and rocks…
Tough Degrom news. Expected I guess but bullet dodged for Mets.
My sources tell me degrom’s elbow has been fucked up since 2021 and that everyone who looked at his medicals going into FA knew he was going to need TJ.
I know a team with a starting power forward
Might be my favorite place on Earth.
I’ve played Bethpage Black. It’s a heavy lift. I watch the majors on TV, not many more tournaments.
The fashion used to be hideously, horrifically Godawful; it’s more sporty now — though I still hate tucking in my shirt and avoid it at all costs and golf clothes still kind of suck. I’ve always from my very youngest days had a hate-hate relationship with the social anxiety and insecurities and general social striving you find at most golf courses.
I think Obi for a late 1st Pacers pick is a pretty likely draft day trade.
Actually, Jarace Walker and Taylor Hendricks are both mocked/ranked right around the Pacers 7th pick.
So that probably renders the whole thing moot unless they want to bring them along slowly.
You realize how depressing that sounds right? To trade a lottery pick for a 26th pick?
Just for that reason alone I can’t see the Knicks ever doing such a deal and admitting drafting Obi was a huge blunder
Great Katz quote on Brunson’s moves in the paint:
“He’s like Carmelo Anthony and a dreidel had a baby.”
I would be shocked. 1/4 of the league is going to be available. Leon’s going to take some big swings and it’s a great summer to do so.
Yeah definitely. It’d be more, but could center around that if Indy wants a wing at 7.
Duarte and picks for Obi was discussed at the deadline. It’s possible they give up both late 1sts or include their 2nd rd pick. Indy might not want to pay that much.
Detroit could also use a PF… unless they want to stuff some of their 4 centers at PF, which is possible.
As frustrating as the Mets season has been so far, imagine if they’d resigned DeGrom and signed Carlos Correa. Ouch.
Some guys we haven’t discussed who could possibly become available:
1. LaMelo – if Charlotte is smart they will trade him & Bridges then start over w Scoot.
2. Ja Morant – if Memphis wants to overreact, back up the truck
Strat, thanks for the link to the PERRIN system. It’s an interesting read. The article seems accurate in what the Knicks like about potential draftees. And what they like has gotten them some good picks. But I think the system has weaknesses. One, it’s likely to be better at the middle of the first round than the top because it prefers established players with good efficiency over players with great potential but fewer results. Two, I think it will be hard on point guards, since they almost never have good advanced stats. This may be why we didn’t draft Halliburton instead of Toppin.
Dude, Leon would jump at 26. 29, too.
Obi’s trade value is a protected 2nd.
I didn’t think it was real likely that deGrom was going to be more healthy in Texas than he was in New York. Every time he stepped on the mound for the Mets you’d have to hold your breath.
Hali had an 11.7 BPM in college (per tankathon)
Obi was slightly better at 12.3 BPM
I’ll also say that it’s difficult to attribute every pick to Perrin. Rose loved Obi, so maybe that was his choice. Wes supposedly pushed IQ.
I have a lot of faith in Obi in the right system, but he hasn’t exactly proved that yet. He’s probably a steal for #26 and Duarte, but resetting that contract makes sense for the Knicks, as they will have to pay Quickley soon.
DiVicenzo is part of the Brunson/Hart crew, so if he wants to come for the midlevel, I’m sure it will get done.
I don’t see a rotation spot for DiVincenzo unless they move someone else first.
If we do get Donte, then we almost have to move Obi.
It’s pretty crowded if we try to run this rotation:
Brunson/IQ
Grimes/Donte
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Mitch/iHart
If we do move Obi and bring Donte in, the 2nd unit is pretty undersized. I guess you play RJ or Randle with them.
Donte also started a fair amount last year
Good point, EB. I guess I don’t know why we didn’t draft Halliburton. But I still think the PERRIN system as described in the article will not be kind to a lot of point guards.
That dreidel line by Katz is a masterpiece.
https://theathletic.com/4585277/2023/06/06/katz-knicks-jalen-brunson-is-a-star-but-should-new-york-pursue-another/
Katz makes a good point. There’s real urgency to upgrade the roster, because in two seasons Brunson is almost definitely going to double his salary.
I think they’d probably run Scoot & LaMelo together. If it doesn’t work out they can move one later
The Knicks have 1 star? Katz doesn’t even mention the guy who made 3rd team all NBA in that article. Poor job on his part.
Should have kept my mouth shut. Manhattan smells like Mandeville Canyon in fire season.
I mean, you can’t just enter the season with 9 legit players and a group of cheerleaders. That said, if we got Duarte back in an Obi trade, we could always move RJ for a pick and a vet PF… a fella can dream…
A lot of mock drafts look like they have Scoot going #3 to Portland with Charlotte taking the dude who aids and abets murders.
Who would trade for Dame? Chicago? Minn? Washington? Clippers? 76ers? I’ve been thinking Portland just needs to blow it up and rebuild, but there aren’t a lot of options, and of those teams, most don’t have a lot to give. They’re kind of screwed and HAVE to trade the pick for a win-now player.
How do you split up minutes?
These guys should all get around 30min:
Brunson/IQ/Grimes/Donte/RJ/Hart/Randle/Mitch
And that’s all your minutes before getting to Hartenstein & Obi
Or you can try to split 192 non-C minutes or 144 non-C/non-PF minutes between them, with Mitch/iHart playing 48 at C & Randle/Obi playing 48 at PF
Donte started half his games last year, so I doubt he’s looking to play backup minutes
saw just a few details of the golf situation, is it me – or did saudi arabia just buy the PGA tour?
I’m not sure why the press is suggesting we acquire Donte Divincenzo or why I see lineup posted here with him in the rotation. We just acquired Josh Hart and they are similar players. See the comparison below. DiVincenzo is a little younger but doesn’t rebound as well. Why don’t we just keep Hart?
https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=divindo01&player_id2=hartjo01