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Knicks Preseason Thread: Knicks vs Pacers, Again

119 replies on “Knicks Preseason Thread: Knicks vs Pacers, Again”

I am buying the “Brunson will juice Randle’s assist numbers” narrative

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I have to assume a healthy Grimes will improve the defense, although the 3-pt defense has been decent thus far.

This is the good version of Randle. When the double comes he’s not trying to force anything. He’s making the right pass quickly. If he’s open he shoots. Basketball is not that hard when the right players are on the court.

4 assists and 0 TOs so far.

Randle looks good so far, agree.

If he doesn’t feel like he has to force things all the time that can only be helpful

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Thanks, Owen!

Really sloppy D, luckily the Pacers can’t shoot. Looking forward to the bench mob coming in and bringing some energy.

DIdn’t think Obi was going to be able to go up and get that lob. Silly me.

What is the clever rhyme for tanking for Wembanyama?

Pacers will be doing that soon

Mathurin has a crazy physique

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I approve of the take foul call and the push off call. Good for the game.

And nice bomb from IQ

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Seriously who has ever dunked better thanObi on the Knicks?

It’s not even close

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Carlisle making a wholesale five player swap: Clyde, “He should. Those guys are pathetic.” Hahaha

Lovely Bargnani flop by Cam. Loving it.

Not a fan of Deuce’s do. I keep mixing him up with Cam.

Re iHart, they’re using him like he’s Mitch, which from what everyone wrote about him and his passing is a huge waste.

Hope they figure that one out — I guess it’s early, but still.

I’m happy thay finally did something about take fouls, it’ll raise the chance of Obi’s fastbreak dunks…

Reddish is botching another chance…

This second unit with Quick and Deuce as the guards does not look good. I’m getting flashbacks from last year.

Quickley still isn’t a convincing point guard, for those of you who wanted him to start…

If this were the regular season TJ would have 23 points and 8 steals but he airballs that in preseason

And yeah, Reddish looked terrible

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Clyde keeps making the David Ruffin reference, most Knicks fans under 60 probably have no idea who he is

Hali/Mathurin/Duarte and Tankbanyama for Wenbanyama versus RJ/Quickley/Toppin and a handful of merc-fueled marginal wins ….

Let’s pump the brakes on the bright future of the Pacers until they actually, you know, win the draft lottery

On Media Day BTS, Obi says to Brunson “We not in Dallas anymore” like Jalen is Dorothy. Hahaha.

Pacers commentators (and assistant coach) keep calling the Knicks ‘extremely physical.’ Smells like the ’90s…

Nice steal and pass/finish from E4 to RJ. But the set offense is lacking creativity at the moment.

A couple of times Hartenstein has stopped his man but some other Pacer is left open around the basket, the ball is passed to him and he scores. I’m not sure why that is. Maybe Hartenstein and the rest of the Knicks need to get used to one another.

The Pacers defense seems much better this game than the previous game.

Pre season or not, you can normally count on a team to play harder against the Knicks on the 2nd leg of a home and home.

Also, RJ Barrett’s night is probably done. 21 points on 7/14 from the field, 1/5 from 3, 6/7 from the stripe.

A lot of crow will be served this season.

There we go. Hart to Deuce on the backdoor cut. Just like it’s supposed to work.

I would rather have literally anyone picked 19th or later in the 2021 draft than Cam Reddish

Also, RJ Barrett’s night is probably done. 21 points on 7/14 from the field, 1/5 from 3, 6/7 from the stripe.

A lot of crow will be served this season.

His shooting for both threes and foul shots looks better to me this season. Not only are a lot going in, but his misses are much closer.

“Hart to Obi” — Hart may get more alley oop assists this year than the last decade of Knicks centers.

Three pretty inside passes by iHart. Liking this.

I also heard Thibs bellow “Cutters!!!” when iHart had the ball. warmed my heart.

Mathurin is something. I am intrigued. Giving me some Jimmy Butler vibes maybe?

Not sure but he appears to be a keeper

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That Cumberbatch character on the Pacers is a keeper.

Edit: Damn you, Owen.

similar to keels, cam doesn’t appear to have the fitness stuff down…maybe it’s his body type, cam doesn’t appear to carry much muscle mass…

Breen spoke of quik and obi enhancing their upper body physiques during the off season…

Kareem had the skyhook, Hakeem had the dream shake, Dirk had the one legged fadeaway, and Cam Reddish has the discombobulated drive to the rim that usually ends badly

Well, all credit to Thibs for not trying to win this game

Just when we thought Cam might have turned a corner.

I did like how vertical that stuff from Mathurin was

Nembhard played for Gonzaga after transferring there

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Embarrassing, but it’s the kind of loss we’ve always complained that Thibs would never allow. For once coach didn’t put all the starters back in to try to win a meaningless game. Instead he got more intel on Cam (gone), Hart (improving), Deuce (meh), etc. It’s bad that our 2nd unit stunk up the joint, but it may have served a purpose.

It’d been really nice to see iso-Obi at least once or twice in a game in which none of the perimeter bench guys could hit anything. He’s got to be more involved in half-court sets.

thibs most certainly has more roster choices than in like the previous thousand years…

I like mitch and julius as a frontcourt, together they’re two big athletic guys, limited offensively, but they should continue to clean glass all season…

Obi was fine. IQ, Cam and deuce were 8-33.

If Randle is as bad as he was last year then
Obi is better. If Randle regresses in a good way then Obi will just be infinitely more fun to watch

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The preseason winning streak is over as the bench melted and the starters (except for RJ) had a so-so second half.
Sloppy game with a bunch of bad things and some positive ones.
Reddish is the antithesis of winning basketball, IQ shot 4-18, Brunson had his worst game, Randle had a good first half but summoned some bad memories in the third quarter, Deuce is… still not ready.

Nice job from Thibs letting the bench guys finish the game.
It’s preseason, nothing to worry about (Rose and Grimes will be back).

The Pacers are clearly a lottery team but Mathurin belongs (and Carlisle is a great coach).

Our starters all hada pisitivr plus minus but our bench was all negative

Obi is a nice complementary player. He’s a long way from being a legit NBA starter.

For me, Obi’s result tonight was neutral. He doesn’t really look to initiate, and all the guards were a mess, so.

But I really wish IQ had looked better out there. Indy D had him completely figured out. I might say the same about Brunson. Both guys seemed to be overmatched physically, but that’s just the usual eye test stuff. See y’all Friday. Stay zen.

The Knicks already have one starter who can’t initiate his own offense in Mitch. They can’t afford another one, especially a spotty defender.

Derrick Rose is a legit PG on a second unit. IQ and Deuce are not. I like that they used Hart as a point C but that should really be a second option. Bottom line is that it’s a steep dropoff after our top 10, except maybe for Sims.

Sure. I said/meant Obi doesn’t look to initiate, basically at all. I think that is pretty clear. Whether he can or not is something we are all waiting to find out. I’ve seen flashes in meaningless games, but otherwise Obi stays safely in the lane Thibs has given him.

But right there you see why bench players are bench players. That unit couldn’t hold on to a lead against the one of the scrubbiest benches in the NBA.

It felt like a Sunday afternoon game. No one had any intensity. Brunson got outplayed by TJ, did little to initiate the offense, and routinely crashed into double teams like last year’s RJ. Nobody except Randle and RJ could make a basket to save their lives. It felt like a loss in the first few minutes, and of course we let them hang around until they won.

I was really pleased to finally see iHart being used appropriately. It was funny though, players kept treating him like Randle by going up top for the handoff instead of cutting to the basket. but he still got 5 assists in 23 minutes (and 10 rebounds). It’s an interesting new flavor.

That’s crap, Z-Man. These same bench guys (in an offense helmed by DRose) carried the team in its best moments most of the last two years.

Obi’s job isn’t to initiate—it’s to finish, defend, cut, block shots, rebound, and more but not to beat a man off the dribble. He could definitely start, and that’s not to take away from the progress Randle seems to be making.

I will admit, Obi’s rebounding is still not at all where it should be, but his defense has come a long way.

And remember, it’s still very early for all of these guys. Quickley looked awful tonight, but I’m still buying stock long-term.

RJ was 6-9 on twos and 6-7 from the line. Don’t worry about the rest. If we’re playing Cam Reddish 23 minutes in games that count we’re fucked anyhow.

“That’s crap, Z-Man. These same bench guys (in an offense helmed by DRose) carried the team in its best moments most of the last two years…Obi’s job isn’t to initiate—it’s to finish, defend, cut, block shots, rebound, and more but not to beat a man off the dribble.”

Even by your description, sounds like he’s not up to the job of being a legit NBA starting wing. Of the things you listed as his jobs, he doesn’t really defend, block shots or rebound all that well. He mainly finishes and cuts. That’s it. Except once every few games he will get hot from 3, but that’s hardly reliable.

I don’t think there’s a GM in the league who would give us more than a protected first for Obi right now, even with two years left on his rookie deal. That’s more than you could get for Julius, but only because of Randle’s contract. Obi’s a nice bench player with the right guys around him. Ainge is a pretty smart guy, and didn’t consider Obi much of an asset. So is Hollinger, who felt Obi’s ceiling was a bench player. They may be wrong, but for the time being, I’m with them.

Let me put it differently. If Obi was in the first year of a 4 year/$117M deal, the same contract as Julius, how easy would it be to trade him right now? Since people here think he’s better than Randle straight up, do you think you could trade that contract for an asset? Or in a neutral deal?

“If Obi was in the first year of a 4 year/$117M deal, the same contract as Julius, how easy would it be to trade him right now?”

This is literally impossible to know since Obi has never been given starter’s minutes the way that Randle or John Collins have, for instance. Unlike those two, though, I think there’s still the hope that Obi has some upside left. We will see.

It felt like a Sunday afternoon game. No one had any intensity. Brunson got outplayed by TJ, did little to initiate the offense, and routinely crashed into double teams like last year’s RJ. Nobody except Randle and RJ could make a basket to save their lives. It felt like a loss in the first few minutes, and of course we let them hang around until they won.

Preseason games really are sort of like that, though. Just meaningless stuff.

“Spida with 24 points on 26 shots…”

He’s going to have nights and maybe even playoff series that are going to cause us to question our sanity for passing on him (probably against the Knicks lol), but imo we dodged a bullet there. He’s a one way player, not super elite at that, and we would have been too undersized at G/SF.

The starting unit looks way better this year than last year and I’m not overly worried about the bench despite the bad play. Rose was out tonight and Grimes will be an upgrade when he’s back. To be honest, my remaining concern, like last year, is 3rd string PG. Neither Grimes or Deuce is a PG and that unit does not have the kind of playmakers you need at other positions. You could see that unit struggling specifically because no one could organize and control the offense. Rose is inevitably going to miss games. I’d like to see us add a real PG.

I agree with pretty much everything Z-Man said in this thread.

Again, on some teams, maybe Obi could be a starter and add more value than a player like Randle, but not on this team with these players. He’s improving. So if you ask me again in a few months I may feel differently about it, but not based on what I see so far.

Deeefense, isn’t Quickley our third string point guard? I know he mostly plays shooting guard, but if our first two point guards are Brunson and Rose and one can’t play I think Thibs would play Quickley at point guard instead of Grimes or McBride.

I watched the game for about 3 minutes late… quickly and deuce just running around with heads chopped off… the 5 on the floor were rotating and dribbling all over, just not anywhere near the basket, nor were they creating any space… preseason…

It felt like a Sunday afternoon game. No one had any intensity.

And that’s why i opted to get some sleep instead of watching the 2nd half. Looks like i made a good bet.

Come on, a lot of players were playing very bad and people are trying to take away too much from a preseason game. Randle isn’t better than Obi because of one game. What matters is that Randle looks better and that should give us some options for the future. Trading him and keeping Obi, or the other way around. Definitely the former, please. Same for Quick, he is our 3rd option at PG, and it won’t be one game that determines he can’t do it.
@KFNINJ: I think Thibs plays the 2nd unit like a 2-PG lineup, with Quick and Rose alternating, and i think it’s the best way to keep developing Quick to be good at it.

Randle had a good first half but summoned some bad memories in the third quarter

Can someone elaborate on this? Was it only poor play, or was crazy Randle back?

@ Cyber — to me — Randle didn’t look particularly *crazy* last night, just out of his depth skill-wise when forced to lead. Brunson was basically bottled up, so the offense looked down the flowchart to Randle and RJ to make things happen. Randle made some familiar and confused moves as field general, but it never seemed like he was demanding that role (like in The Before Times) or that he was eager to fill it. As many have said here, Brunson’s effectiveness is going to determine how pretty our first team offense looks.

IQ had an awful game all around. I’m still buying long on him, but he needs to sort himself out.

I watched the game today so I’m posting late. After looking through the posts, I see many of us share similar thoughts.

Randle looked good. He spends much of the time spreading the floor, working the left sideline. It’s clear he knows that he’s the 3rd option, at best, on those plays. It lets Brunson and RJ work the lane with Mitch in the post and Fournier on the other wing. When there were plays for him, he was unselfish and dished.

But this game was about the 2nd unit. Nobody on our second unit could stop Mathurin. That kid’s a 1st teamer.

Sitting Rose gave us a look at IQ and Deuce. Both disappointed. Deuce has a weak offensive game and IQ is hot-and-cold. We need him to hit those 3’s and he needs to play better defense.

Obi hasn’t shown me enough improvement. His 3pt shot still sucks. I didn’t see him set his feet on any of his 3 attempts…err….misses. His offensive game is mostly the highlight slam.

Cam’s +/1 was -22. Not good and not worth discussing. He’s holding a place for Grimes.

Hartenstein is a very different type of center than Mitch. He has range which means he is less frequently under the boards on offense. He snared 10 rebounds 3 OReb and 7 DReb. Mitch snared 8, 6 OReb and 2 DReb. See how it flips? I can see Mitch and Hart being on the floor at the same time.

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