Michael Scotto, who is an actual legit reporter so this is likely for real for him to be talking such detailed specifics, is reporting that the Knicks, Lakers and Raptors are talking about a three-way deal that end up with:
Lakers get Cam Reddish and Alec Burks.
Knicks get Goran Dragic and draft picks.
Raptors get Talen Horton-Tucker and Nerlens Noel.
Reddish can’t be combined with another player in a trade, but I assume that this deal takes that into account, so it’s really more like Reddish for pick and then Burks and Noel for Dragic.
This would clear a decent amount of cap space for this summer (something like $23 million, as I totally forgot that Taj’s money is non-guaranteed. Good call, CZ!), so that the Knicks could likely again sign a free agent before then re-signing Mitch to go over the cap (Mitch’s cap hold is miniscule, something like $3.2 million) and then extending RJ. So this could give them enough money to make a real run at Jalen Brunson, and if they free up even more money then even Miles Bridges could be a conceivable target. So that’s definitely nice.
It would be an abrupt shift in their plans, but since their first plan was a bad one, then a shift could be a much-welcomed turn.
The draft capital is the key here to see how good this particular deal is, but overall, I think it looks pretty much, like most Rose deals, “okay,” in that it works to basically erase his own mistakes, but using the charred Charlotte first rounder to do so (unless the Knicks somehow get a bunch of draft picks out of this deal). The end result could be a real positive if this deal goes down and they use the freed up cap space on someone like Jalen Brunson. I bet the Mavericks are a bit worried after seeing the rumors of this deal!
58 replies on “Report: Knicks Discussing Three-Way Trade With Raptors and Lakers”
For me it depends on the picks… but at least it isn’t Westbrook…
The incineration of the 19th pick will then become a case study for stupidity in every GM/FO class of the future, a lesson called “Don’t always try to act too smart… you’re not”.
About the other teams,
playing under LeBron’s whip is maybe the only chance for Reddish to become something in this league,
while the Raptors, adding two pieces for a non-playing one, would become the dark horse in a strong but unstable East.
To make the money work the Lakers would need to throw in Nunn for Reddish in a separate trade. Could it be we’ve already seen enough of Reddish and now we are pivoting off of him? I am all for moving Burks and Noel but unless there is some real draft capital, like Toronto’s 2022 protected 1st, it feels like a pretty mediocre trade.
No, it’s indeed a good trade. Of course, this assessment is pending more light on the picks’ value.
To send Reddish to LAL they just need to send 2 of the vet mins that are out of the rotation, eg Jordan Bazemore for Reddish works. And we waive them. They don’t need Jordan because Tristan Thompson will most likely reach a buyout with IND. And he plays very little anyway (12.9 MPG).
Dragic is expiring, and we’re sending out 25.2M (2022-23 money, i mean). Before the trade our cap was projected to be 6.1M above the cap (including #10 pick cap hold) , but 5.1M is for Taj’s non-guaranteed money. So practically we’re only 1M above the cap, meaning this trade will open up 24.2M. HELLO JALEN BRUNSON!
Good work Leon, i was losing my faith in you. But you still need to get Brunson in the summer, man.
The only downside to this is that our maniac coach will read the move like this: “Leon traded for a PG that went to the finals 2 seasons ago, WE’RE ALL IN, LET’S PLAY THE VETS 40 MINS A GAME”. But at least we’ll have a real PG for the rest of the season to proper evaluate the rest of the team.
I think they’re closer to $7 million over next year, but you’re absolutely correct, I forgot Taj’s non-guaranteed money, which should give them around $20 million to spend next year (once they free up some more money for their incoming, likely lottery pick).
So sure, it is fair to say that it is a good thing to be able to have enough room to make a run at Brunson, but at the same time, it’s hard to praise a move too much for “using a first round pick to clear your cap of guys you just signed last year.”
I never considered Dragic to be a “real” PG, more of a combo guard who can pass.
The danger here is that he goes all Rose 2021 and we re-sign him for 3yrs/$40mill.
Beyond cap considerations, the positive is that it probably means the end of Kemba, more minutes for Grimes and possibly Sims.
The negative is that it makes it more likely that we don’t play Deuce at all,
There’s an outside chance that if we fall out of contention for a play-in spot we just waive Dragic so that he can play for a contender, right? Then the Deuce is loose!
It woudl seem that dumping Kemba’s salary, even at the cost of a minor asset (future protected 2nd?) would make sense.
For most other teams rumored to be acquiring Dragic, I agree that he’d likely be waived (as they’d be using him just to dump a contract/make a trade work, cap-wise). For the Knicks, though, I really don’t know. They nominally are looking to make moves that will still keep them competitive for the play-in game, I think, which makes me think they would want to keep Dragic.
Yes, please. Though it would leave us thin on the wing, considering that a trade needs to be made to get Cam in the rotation. But..this clears up Grimes and Sims for an increase in playing time, and I think I’d rather have more of those two than Cam. And I’m ok with replacing Kemba’s minutes with Dragic
I think.
Yeah, this definitely would make dumping Kemba’s salary for next year a priority, as it would really give them money to play with for Brunson or Miles Bridges.
By the way, if you’re the Lakers, you gotta be trying to get John Wall for Westbrook, right? Westbrook is such a negative that even Wall’s decline phase looks like it would be less distracting.
It’s funny to see the Lakers so scared about their future that they really, really don’t want to trade that 2027 pick. That’s why this deal is appealing to them, as it almost assuredly won’t involve that pick. So if you’re not willing to give that pick up, Alec Burks and Cam Reddish might be all that you can get.
I said it was a good trade because i thought we were the team getting the picks, not sending out.
About the cap, i use this: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/cap/2022/
And i can come up with 25M in cap space for 2022-23 only with this move, including Mitch’s cap hold and Pick#10. But maybe i’m wrong, i don’t know. Will look at it closer if we make the deal. 😉
I see the mistake I made. I didn’t know Spotrac was already factoring the cap hold of the pick in there, so I was subtracting $3.8 million when I shouldn’t, so you’re right, they’ll have around $23 million without even getting Kmeba involved! That is a nice figure.
I don’t see how this deal would help them all that much. Noel has been an injury-riddled shell of himself all year and THT is an erratic kid with a bright future but currently a -4.2 BPM.
The move is good for the Lakers, don’t forget there’ll be good players waived after the deadline, like Tristan Thompson. And Lebron is a magnet for that kind of player, and rightfully so. Also they must give that pick for John Wall, because if Westbrook stays they’ll have too much drama and that way the season almost certainly isn’t salvageable.
Lakers team after the trade:
Wall? + Burks
Bradley + Monk
Lebron + Stanley Johnson
AD + Melo
Tristan? + Howard
Yeah, I think for Toronto it is probably similar to the Lakers, in that they get to add stuff without giving up much, and if you’re not going to give up much, then this is the sort of return you’re going to get.
So essentially (*) the one unprotected pick they got from Dallas for KP that a bunch of people were giddying over is going to be used, not to draft a promising young player with upside, but instead to get out from under the contracts of Alec Burks and Nerlens Noel (and gain probably two completely meh seconds).
And to make matters worse, the geezer PG they wind up getting is going to be used by their maniac coach to try to fuel a push for an utterly meaningless fake playoff spot, potentially reducing the number of ping-pong balls they get in the 2022 draft.
LOLKnicks, thy floor is yours.
(*) Technically, the incinerated pick was theirs and two spots above, but the point’s the same.
THT was coveted in free agency until the Lakers decided to pay him instead of Caruso, then got injured,
Noel anchored our defense during the Magic Run (while Mitch was out) and if healthy is a useful player.
And the Raptors have something we have not, Nick Nurse, who is able to extract value from Watanabe and Birch.
I think it’s totally fair to criticize the use of a first rounder to correct his own mistakes, which is why I’m not gung ho on the possibility of the deal, but at least it would clear the cap space out, allowing the Knicks to be players in the 2022 free agent marketplace, which is where they should have been planning on all along.
And Dragic has barely played all year, I doubt he will make much of a difference to the Knicks’ chances of getting to the play-in game.
@E: Mitch has some words for you!
https://twitter.com/sportingnews/status/1483471505812070400
I guess one silver lining would be if the FO is saying to itself, “We gave Thibs what he wanted and ran it back, it’s blown up in our face, we aren’t listening to him anymore.” If you’re of an optimistic bent on this front, you could read the hiring of Rosas as another sign of this.
Whether or not the FO is saying this to itself, it *looks like* they are, and that’s good enough to keep me optimistic. And relaxed!!
If this move allows Leon to get Brunson in the summer, i think it’s a good use of the pick. Who wouldn’t give that pick right now to get Brunson? So the deal is Burks + Noel + Knox + CHA 2022 Top-19 protected pick + DAL 2023 Top10 protected pick for Brunson. We’re talking about 2 picks that have almost zero chance of being in the lottery, so please evaluate it that way. I think it’s a fair deal.
Now if Leon doesn’t get Brunson or uses the money like he did this season, then it’ll be a bad move.
“Look, guys, I used a draft pick to get rid of those terrible contracts I signed so that I could sign a good contract” still isn’t a compelling defense of Rose’s acumen. They could easily (should easily) have the pick and the cap room to sign Brunson.
And if we remain in contention for the play-in spot, it means the team is playing much better and isn’t all that bad after all. It’s a win-win.
Exactly. I just hope they can manage to send him to a contender, or to Charlotte. A place where he can feel good, i mean. He’s too much a nice guy to do otherwise.
I think we need to wait and see re: what the Toronto pick would be before having any reaction. Twitter has been saying for a while that Toronto has been looking to attach a 1st rounder to Dragic to get more depth — if you look at their last 15 games, their starters are playing 37-42 minutes per game, which seems probably unsustainable. It seems to me they could probably find a better deal than this for the 1st, but Ujiri also is a smart guy and might think that he’s buying low right now on Burks and Noel, and that with proper minutes / injury management, both could be very useful in a playoff series – and even if not, are both essentially expiring contracts next year.
If it IS the 1st rounder that is coming to the Knicks, then it’s essentially a delayed trade of Knox + the incinerated first round pick + Burks + Noel to get Dragic and the Toronto 1st, which my guess will end up in the high teens or low 20s. And all we really did then is turn the Burks/Noel deals into a 1 year ~19MM deal for Dragic, which then expires this summer leaving us a path to being a player in free agency AND being able to resign Mitch via bird rights.
If that’s what this is (big IF), then I’d say it’s not a bad attempt at making lemonade out of lemons, which is really what those Burks/Noel contracts are. It’s not great (ie. we could’ve just kept the cap space and then rented it out for more picks), but things have clearly gone sideways this year and this wouldn’t be a bad salvage job.
(meanwhile – Julius has really played well lately – wonder whether the Twitter groundswell against him AND all the video of him being a crappy teammate hit home and he’s turning it around)
The same reports suggested that the Raptors really preferred not to use the pick, and this deal sure looks like it would be what you’d come up with if you avoided using the pick, no? But yes, as I note in the main post, if they get Toronto’s first, the deal gets a whole lot better. I doubt they will, though.
And it turns out people were correct to be excited! There were a lot of promising young players with upside available. One of them just lit up the Knicks. It was a good asset, the problem is they incinerated it.
I still remember thinking how I was so happy with a lot of guys available at their picks that I was happy with whoever they picked with them, so long as they used them…and then…well…
Oh, yeah, absolutely. But see the problem is that the asset wasn’t just an asset; it was an asset in the hands of the New York Knicks. (*) That always has to be accounted for.
(*) Just like the cap space they acquired in the trade was an asset in the hands of the New York Knicks and … well.
I agree, Brian. I was just getting Leon out of the recycle bin and giving him the benefit of the doubt. All pending the summer move. I have a lot of faith it’ll be Brunson, and i want to evaluate this team with good PG play for a change. Maybe it’ll all make sense when that day comes, is what i’m holding on to.
If this is the trade, sign me up for it. I don’t care what they do with Goran–if he’s done, play the kids; if he has something left, evaluating what we have with a competent PG more than offsets a possible few more wins and less lottery odds.
This trade would represent a pivot in my book. It is fixing recent past mistakes. Nowhere near all of them. While I probably would grade the trade a C just in terms of what we get/ what we give up, it restores my hope in this FO.
I do agree the front office showing the ability to pivot is a good thing.
I’d be so happy with Brunson that I’d probably also be willing to let bygones be bygones with how they got there. 🙂
Brunson/Rose/Rokas/Deuce
Fournier/Quickley/lotto pick?
RJ/Grimes
Randle/Obi
Mitch/Sims
Not a terrible team and with some room to grow!
If this is Rosas, i think the hire is already paying dividends.
Yep, there is an optimistic spin on this and it’s that Thibs’s voice is starting to get marginalized. Two tidbits from Berman today tend in that direction, too. One was that the proverbial “NBA source” noted that the FO was way more collaborative with Thibs last year than now; the other is that there’s an understanding that there are too many “cooks in the kitchen” in the FO with Rose, Wesley, Perry, and Thibs.
It’s possible to read the Rosas hiring as a way to bring some order and accountability to the process — yes, I could be reaching — but it does look like Rose might be making some very much needed process changes or as BC terms it, pivoting.
Over under 1.5 Knicks moved today? I will take the slight over.
No love for Quick, Brian?
He was always there…retroactively. 😉
36.7% FG (33.1% 3FG, 46.1% eFG, .509% TS%) Immanuel Quickley?
One of the biggest disappointments in a season full of disappoint…
Anyone knows when Perry’s contract expire? I’m guessing the Rosas’ move is to promote him to GM, after a “probation” time because of the Timberwolves affair gate. And then Rosas will have the strongest voice, controlling Wes and Thibs for Leon.
LOL 😉
I agree, but please don’t rule out a young player on his sophomore season. And a season where he’s being forced to be something he’s not.
Yes, that’s my fervent hope. Perry just got a new contract, I think, but it doesn’t really matter; they can just fire him and pay him if need be, or tell him to find another job and he finds one.
Every time I watch IQ bricking a shot this year I hear three words in my mind: Desmond Fucking Bane.
Brunson and Rokas would theoretically be our best PG rotation since ??? I also said the same thing about Kemba and Rose before this season tbf
In HoopsRumors.com:
Now this is looking much better. As i said, i was thinking we were the ones getting the picks. For now the offer seems to be a Raptors 1RP and a Lakers 2RP. Pretty good trade, after all. But if we can squeeze more, then Leon is getting some of his value back.
I loved Brunson since his college days and like what I’m seeing weekly from Rokas,
plus the Knicks have a very poor standard for PG’s in the last bazillion years,
but this blog expectations are going a bit overboard.
We’re talking about them as the new Nash and Drazen Petrovic.
Believe me, they’re not.
If the Raptors are willing to attach a first rounder to Dragic, then surely they can beat Noel and THT on the open market, no? Unless Masai thinks that the Lakers fucked THT up and he is actually a lot better than he has looked this season, but even so, I’d still think they could beat that on the market.
I find it hard to believe the Raps would give up a 1, even a heavily-protected 1, for THT and Nerlens Noel. But I guess we’ll see.
No, i’m not thinking that way, Max. Probably Brunson won’t be an all-star, but the bet is a good bet, he can be the new FVV. I’m tired of missing on those guys and then watch them succeed on other teams. But even if Brunson is “only” a good to very good PG, that is much better than what we had in the last… i don’t even know how many years. We could see the difference with good PG play on the glimpses that DRose has provided. It’s just having a balanced team, at last. No need to be CP3 or Steph. Just a competent PG. I think Brunson can be that for us.
Rokas is all potential, i’m not getting my hopes high, for now. If we’re going to (try to) win next season, i think we should keep DRose as the backup, and ease Rokas to the NBA slowly.
it seems like masai could do this deal without the lakers by swapping dragic for burks/noel and separately taking reddish into the lowry trade exception plus a draft pick. horton tucker makes $10m next yr, unlike burks, has a $11m 23-24 player option. kinda suprised he would prefer that, but i guess he could love tht?
The only thing that makes any sense to me is that Masai thinks the Lakers ruined THT. THT looked pretty promising just last year. But yeah, since he’s getting paid decent money, it still doesn’t make sense to me really.
I think the confusion is that the cost of Cam was a draft pick, so trading him is equivalent to trading that pick. But this trade will result in us receiving a pick or two.
Wait. So the Lakers would end up with Burks and Cam too cool Reddish for the cost of a single #2 draft pick? Am I reading that correctly?
THT and a second, yeah.
Something else needs to go out for Reddish too. It might be garbage, but there needs to be something.
I logged in for this comment.
E… optimistic and relaxed? Even if it’s theoretically or w/qualifiers??? This woke me up more than the coffee I’m sipping on right now!
Just teasing w/you tho. I know your hatred is with the coach (and Randle to a bit lesser extent), not the front office.
insane stat: derozan has attempted 901 two pointers this year and the number two player has 685