From Woj, who came up with a different headline for his actual article:
The New York Knicks are acquiring forward Cam Reddish in a trade with the Atlanta Hawks, sources told ESPN on Thursday.
The Knicks are sending forward Kevin Knox II and a 2022 first-round draft pick via the Charlotte Hornets to the Hawks for Reddish, Solomon Hill and a 2025 second-round pick, sources said.
Reddish, the 10th pick in the 2019 draft, was the victim of an overpopulated Hawks roster of talented young wing players. That ultimately left him without the role or pathway to a contract extension — and the Hawks made it a priority to move him ahead of the Feb. 10 trade deadline.
I dunno, like so many moves Leon Rose has made so far, it’s just sort of…fine. Not great, not awful, just sort of okay. Reddish has not been good so far in his NBA career, but the Charlotte pick, as we noted at the time the Knicks traded the #19 pick for it, isn’t some great asset, either, so seems fair enough. A likely late second rounder is about what Kevin Knox is worth, so fair enough there, too, and maybe the Nets collapse and that second rounder in 2025 could be good, at which point Rose will trade it for a 2028 second-rounder.
Reddish could obviously turn things around in his career, as he’s still pretty young and the Knicks have the rest of this season to see if they want to extend him or not. So it’s all…okay. It’ll be interesting to see if this is a precursor to a later trade, though.
As part of our legendary poll content…Sorry, there are no polls available at the moment.
46 replies on “ESPN.com: Hawks Cleverly Trade Sleeper Agent to Knicks Ahead of Saturday Matchup”
Decent gamble given the value of Le Choix de Repêchage Incinéré, though the question remains whether Jalen Johnson (which team is he on again?) on a rookie deal would ultimately be more valuable than Cam. But what’s done is done. This is yet another bet on our player development staff, and we absolutely needed a player like him. But we really need the good version of that player, which he’s only been on occasion thus far. So I went “okay”
I have no idea who that is!!!!!
Ah shit, I can be sincerely honest then across the board. I’m about to warm it up.
I feel like the invisible man.
Cam Reddish is another brick in the wall. Hopefully he shoots less bricks from three; but, it sounds like he can finish around the basket. The Knickerbocker draft of 2021 is going pretty well to date.
Next up – I would like to see us move Kemba and Evan for someone who has an extra back up point guard on their roster. I have no idea who that might be.
Fournier to Dallas for Jalen Brunson plus our old pals Bullock and Burke works under the cap. Would Dallas do that, or is Fournier too duplicative of our old pal TH2?
Would love Brunson, but I doubt that gets it done. Dallas probably, and rightfully, values Brunson highly.
Hopefully we can get Brunson in FA or via S&T, but I doubt Dallas willingly gives him up. He’s probably more expensive than our MLE, so it may get tricky.
I read somewhere that Brunson has a number of connections to the Knicks. So if you believe in those backroom deals, then maybe he forces his way here.
If we had traded the 19th overall pick in the 2021 draft for Cam Reddish, I would’ve given that a D. There were simply too many players available I’m fairly confident will be more valuable over 4 years than Reddish will be over 1.5.
For reasons we have discussed, this Charlotte pick is worth significantly less than the 19th overall pick in the 2021 draft. So I’m probably in the C+/B- range.
Squinting a lot here, but if you give Reddish his 2PT% from last season his TS% this season is in the .555 range. Also, with how good of a free throw shooter he is there could be some gains to be made from 3 as well.
No, there is absolutely no reason to believe his 2PT% from last season is the “real” one (the drop off has largely been due to him being worse around the rim, which dates back to college and thus his 2PT% this year very well might be the “real” one). Like I said, squinting a lot, but we were probably gonna have to squint a lot to see anything in whoever we got with the incinerated pick too and Reddish at least has the high school pedigree and the 4 good playoff games.
Brunson might be the 2nd best player on the Mavs right now (sorry Porzinkis)
I doubt Dallas is looking to move him
Reddish is the only player I’ve looked at whose 3-yr RAPM makes Knox look like a good player.
Despite his good shooting, Reddish’s worst RAPM is this year.
Sample size is an issue here because Reddish hasn’t played consistently over 3 years, but that also encompasses all the NBA data we have on him.
The more I look into Reddish, the more I dislike the move. Maybe the change of scenery/role helps… but he really is Knox-level bad so far.
Anyone watching the Warriors-Bucks game? Bucks just casually doubling the Warriors’ score at the half 77-38
Instead of talking of the Cam Reddish, we should talk instead about the best thing to happen this Thursday: the Station Eleven finale.
Alan, you were not wrong about this one. This show broke me and made me smile so many times over the last few weeks. What an achievement. Not coincidentally, this is probably the best thing I’ve seen on TV since The Leftovers.
Voted okay, because i think it’s fair value and helps us to have a 10 man rotation again. And maybe Reddish can become at least a very good rotation player, we’ll have to wait and see.
If you send them Mitch, along with Fournier, they might bite. And probably in this scenario they’d prefer to send us WCS instead of Burke.
The Nets should seriously consider tanking their way down to the 8th seed to assure more road games in the playoffs.
This deal sounds pretty reasonable, and doable. It would help both clubs as long as Luka can stay healthy.
Mitch is starting to get really fun to watch again though.
That’s a good point and an amazing thought too
Sam Vecenie with a good and even-handed scouting report on Reddish. An excerpt in two parts:
Vecenie, part 2 (and there’s much more at the above link):
Perhaps we’re in a bizzarro world type period as Knicks fans, where things seem to kind of work out in our favor.
I mean, meh I guess. I don’t think the pick was great and Knox is just going to be waived anyway so I don’t care enough to be angry at this.
Reddish as a player is very bad, but taking fliers on potential for a reasonable price is a decent strategy I guess. It will all depend on what is done from now on, if he shows any real signs, any potential extensions, etc. At least he has the tools to be a good defender if he cares enough about it, so let’s see it Thibs can somehow help him with that.
If you are looking at Reddish’s “overall” college/pro stats or his lack of development so far imo you are missing the point very badly.
The story is INJURIES INJURIES INJURIES.
At Duke he came in as a blue chip prospect, but he played with broken ribs, groin issues, and a bad toe. Just draw a line through the entire season. It was a injury disaster.
Last year he had an achilles tendon problem that was nagging him until he had a non surgical procedure done on it and missed a ton of games. Then he was rushed back into the playoffs and looked good.
This year he’s also had a few minor issues and he’s been unhappy with his role in ATL and wanted out. Now he’s out.
IMO, he should be viewed as a young athletic 6′ 8″ SF with a sweet stroke who has had his development (and stats) short circuited by injury. What the Knicks are hoping is that the more serious injuries are behind him and that on a new team with a role he likes he’ll be willing to work hard on both sides and apply his talents. Then he can finally develop into the player he was supposed to be.
As always, development is a bit of crap shoot. Who knows if he’ll get hurt again or flake out if he doesn’t like how many minutes he’s getting or hates Thibs. But this is a very talented kid that hasn’t had a chance to show his best (or develop his potential) yet.
There’s almost no way we were going to get a player with this talent with the 19th pick or the CHA pick.
Now it’s on him and Thibs (maybe with an assist from RJ) to go to work, turn his career around, play on both sides, and justify the salary he thinks he’s worth. If he does that, we stole him. If not, it was easily worth a shot. Those Dallas picks were not worth much. Reddish is worth a shot now and long term.
The thing that’s confusing about this trade is that Scott Perry didn’t originally draft Reddish. Not our usual doomed reclamation project.
I just don’t really understand where Cam is going to play. As a 2? He is a shitty ballhandler/playmaker and we don’t really have a PG at the moment. Minutes at the 3 are, for better of for worse, going to RJ. We are already playing Julius too much and Obi not enough at the 4, and Cam was a disaster there when the Hawks played him as a smallball big.
Brunson is half a season from being an unrestricted free agent.
Cam is young, long, and athletic. Not a very good player, but good potential with fairly high ceiling.
Kevin Knox sucks, in spite of his 3 on 3 prowess. Draft pick – meh.
DRed, there have been times when Thibs has played a short rotation and it seems to have been when he was short of people because of COVID or injuries. I inferred the ones he didn’t play in those cases were not really NBA ready in his judgement just by looking at who didn’t play. When he has a full roster he seems to play ten players or so. In the last game he played nine (except for garbage time), with the four bench players getting substantial minutes being Noel, Grimes, Quickley, and Toppin. None of those subs back up the three. Reddish can play the three. So I think if Reddish is deemed NBA ready by Thibs, he might expand the rotation to ten and give Reddish minutes at the three.
It does feel weird that Reddish wanted out because he wanted more minutes, only to land with us and a coach that is famous for short rotations and heavy starter minutes. There should be a place for him as a backup 3, but I doubt he’ll overtake Fournier and Burks as a 2, and Barrett is playing 32-35 already mostly at the 3. Then there’s Quickley and Grimes still.
Maybe this signals that the Knicks are still looking to make more moves elsewhere? I can’t see him averaging more than the 22-25 minutes he was getting at Atlanta really.
I’m hoping Reddish can do well here in the way that Wiggins is at Golden State. By having a clear role as the backup three and the right skill set for it, he can develop as a player. Imagine our bench unit is Rose, Toppin, Burks, Reddish and Noel. That is a strong second unit.
Vecenie’s take on Reddish is eerily reminiscent of Knox’s scouting reports.
“Look guys, this kid has the talent look at his highlights!!! Look at his size and fluidity!!!”
Then why have his numbers consistently sucked since high school???
“Just look at his athleticism and length!!!”
Then why does he only average 3 rebounds a game?
Yes, injuries have been a factor. He also has zero evidence of being a good player across any stretch of time. And if he’s been constantly injured for the last 4 consecutive years, how is that a good sign?
***If you are looking at Reddish’s “overall” college/pro stats or his lack of development so far imo you are missing the point very badly. The story is INJURIES INJURIES INJURIES.***
Even if this is true, the fact is, this is a competitive league that he’s playing in and though it may not be fair, these guys you prop up shouldn’t be graded on a curve. Reddish may be chronically injured, but, unfortunately for him, he plays a game that requires one to either be healthy, or to achieve despite one’s setbacks. It’s a results league with high stakes and high payouts. Guys being signed off the playgrounds on hardship contracts are coming in and playing better than him. Cameron Oliver and Malcolm Hill were Reddish’s hardship backups and basically walked onto the same team, with the same system in place, and outplayed him. These guys aren’t even replacement level players. They are desperation level players for depleted rosters.
I voted “okay” on the poll,
it’s flyer with upside potential at a low cost, it’s worth the risk of the incinerated pick becoming “something”.
Kemba, Rose, IQ, Deuce, Burks, RJ, Fournier, Grimes, Reddish.
8 players for 3 spots and a coach known for playing his starters a lot.
Or Reddish can steal some of Obi’s already limited minutes at the 4.
Either way, I don’t think we’re over with trades, there’s still 4 weeks to go.
I know it’s a fever dream,
but I’d like to watch one minute of IQ/RJ/Grimes/Reddish/Obi small ball lineup.
No rim protection maybe, but four lenghty and switchable guys flying around, with a lot of 3PT shooting.
Add Deuce and Mitch and the possible permutations are also intriguing (full-court press, trap…).
This is quite possibly grass is greener thinking, EB, but it feels like Reddish has demonstrated both more flashes than Knox (most notably his ECF play against the Bucks last year) and more varied play than our former giraffe, who basically was only ever useful on the rare nights when his 3-point jumper was wet. Reddish has at times shown that he can defend, create for himself, and various other things that Knox thus far hasn’t been able to and likely never will be. Reddish has also done those things with maddening infrequency, and the odds on him doing them on the regular here are not great. But in Bryant, Payne, and company, we have a staff with a long history of player development. Where the wishcasting on Knox generally involved him learning how to do lots of things which he had previously demonstrated zero aptitude for, with Reddish it seems more about getting him to buy in, demonstrate more consistent effort, sacrifice for the team, etc. The former can’t really be fixed, whereas the latter can.
Reddish probably has more value around the league at this time than either:
a) any of the guys who were taken at #19-24 in last year’s draft (and no one should bring up guys drafted after that unless the draft threads show that a particular player was next up on your board…and the odds are that any one-and-done player the Knicks would have picked there would not have outperformed his rookie deal in the first 1.5 years)
b) the CHA pick that we got back for #19
Reddish is eye candy for certain GMs, who as Vecinie put it, see what they want to see in his highlight reels and his 2021-22 3pt%. He’s not Knox or Ntilikina or Mudiay. Maybe Hezonjia is the best comp…a guy who has the illusion of being just a couple of developmental steps away from being really good. So even if he doesn’t develop in the next few months, he should have more value in a trade for a certain window than the alternatives.
I saw somewhere on Twitter that Cam and RJ didn’t get along all that well at Duke which only adds to my confusion.
Is there comps for this? A player that could be very good but didn’t put in the effort, and then suddenly started to care and became great?
This isn’t correct for the 19th pick debate. People must choose one of the players, and then we’ll have to wait and see who’s right and who’s wrong. I think the consensus was that we should have picked Jalen Johnson. So let’s wait to see if Reddish (or whatever we do with him) outplays Jalen Johnson or not.
I am not sure anyone is projecting a possible outcome of him becoming great. But in answer to your question–and looking only at the Knicks–Bernard King is an example, though there were other issues at play. You could also squeeze Julius Randle’s 2020-1 season in there as well (taking a very broad meaning of “didn’t put in the effort”).
Re: Cam vs. the other reclamation projects we’ve taken on (I’m thinking Mudiay, DSJ in particular).
What I would say is that we’re starting with a higher floor with Cam as compared with the other two.
All are great NBA-level athletes.
But Mudiay and DSJ never showed, really, any NBA-level skill. When we took him on, Mudiay was a big guard who didn’t pass that well, shot 31% from 3 and low 70s from the line. DSJ was a crazy athlete but a relatively small guard who didn’t play defense, shot mid 60s from the line, and couldn’t shoot at all.
The skill that matters most in the NBA is shooting, and Cam is shooting near 40% from 3 and 90% from the line. That establishes a fairly predictable floor for him as a long 6’8″ guy who is athletic and is at least ok on defense. From what I’ve read / heard, Cam’s issue seems to be discipline — he puts the ball on the floor without a plan, isn’t necessarily good at reading what is in front of him. Gambles too much on defense, etc. If there’s anything we’ve seen from our development staff, it’s improving discipline on just these things: Quickley is making much more advanced reads on-ball now than last year. Ditto with RJ. Mitch is gambling way less and definitely is playing with more discipline in general.
now one might say – Knox is 6’8″ and long and is a good shooter and we couldn’t do anything with him. That would be a fair point, but there is just something missing from Knox’s athleticism – still looks like newborn deer with limbs everywhere. And I think you just can’t teach awareness.
Question about Cam is — does he have the work ethic that RJ/Quick/Obi have? Haven’t heard much about that. My sense is that this FO cares deeply about players being workers, and so I would assume he is…
If Cam can give us a season of All-Star and All-NBA play, sign me up for that. 😉
What a mess of things, they didn’t get along and the Knicks wanted to take Cam instead of RJ. Who else would be behind this “made up in a hurry” stuff, if not Berman?
That’s true, but it’s also true that the Knicks FO would not have drafted JJ at #19, as there were no rumors whatsoever that they had interest in him.
If you ignore all the bad, Reddish looks really good
Re: Cam and RJ not getting along
I’m not sure where this “happy Duke reunion” narrative thing happened. Those dudes played together for like six months and underachieved like crazy. Their Duke tenure is a fraction of their NBA careers at this point. Seems pretty unlikely that Zion gives a shit, too.
Jowles – do you ever feel honored that the simulation we are living in is centered around making you crazy? Literally it seems like every single player you hated the most has ended up on the Knicks. Melo, Mudiay, DSJ, Bargnani, now Reddish. I feel like we had entire threads dedicated to your hate of Reddish back before that draft…
I agree. But I also do not take stock in Twitter saying RJ and Cam didn’t get along.
At least Reddish will be able to fulfill Tyreke Evans and Rudy Gay’s unfinished legacy of players who would inevitably become Knicks players one day.
I don’t know if RJ and Reddish get along or not and there are rumors Reddish is known to pout when things don’t go his way.
What I now is that RJ is in Thibs’ circle of trust so Reddish better straight himself up or his playing time will quickly reach Knox’s lows.
Reddish knows this is his chance to answer the critics, let’s see what he’s able do with it.
This is either Perry and/or Mills shit-disturbing and/or positioning.