NY Post: Julius Randle, Alec Burks lead Knicks past pesky Magic

Thrilling and important win, we tied last year’s win total with 30 games to go and we’ve raised our 3PFG/per game significantly after the ASG.

Thibs’ diplomatic words and his Actor’s Studio performance aside, yesterday we played a 7 -men rotation and that wont do.

Very good game from Bullock (that he put in jeopardy at the end, before his last play heroic), I think he’s well suited for a bench role, and if so we could resign him next year.

Burks kept us afloat in the first half (and had 10 boards!),
Randle had an off-night from outside but was spectacular in the point-forward role, RJ didn’t shine but his defense is improving day by day.

Frank, as a decoy-PG, was very good on defense all night long and finally in the second half he gave us something on the offensive front.
He doesn’t need to score 20 a game, a contribution like yesterday is enough, if he could keep shooting around 40% on three, keep shooting when he has space and attack the basket if possibile, that’s the 3 & D player many of us (me included) see as his best chance to be a solid rotation player in the league.

I asked him for a redemption game at the start of the thread and he gave me just that, thank you.

Now let’s focus on Philly and hope that some of the missing players will come back soon.

Dame Lillard for MVP!

Alan:

Meanwhile, LaVar Ball is stirring the pot, doing an ESPN LA radio interview where he said he hoped the Pelicans traded Lonzo, because they shouldn’t be trying to turn him into a 3-and-D guy. Reading between the lines of various Berman of the Post reports, it seems clear LaVar is angling to get his eldest to the Knicks. But beyond the cost in assets (if we trade for him) and dollars on Lonzo’s next contract, which we’ve discussed here a lot over the last couple of weeks, there’s the question of how much we’d want to deal with his dad.

Good point…
For me, emotionally zero, I despise LaVar Ball,
rationally it depends, Magic shut him up and MJ did the same in Charlotte, do we have anyone with such gravitas?

Max: Magic shut him up and MJ did the same in Charlotte, do we have anyone with such gravitas?

No we don’t. And if we did have someone who could do it in another market, they aren’t shutting down the NY tabloids who will eat up every word coming out of LaVar’s mouth

I wonder how little we might have to pay Sac to get Bjelica?
Backup 4 is really a problem on this team. Obi looks awful, Knox is not much better. Need something if for no other reason than to give Randle a few more minutes rest. Bjelica can space the floor, good passer, etc.
He’s expiring and 32, obv not part of Sac’s future. Wonder if a protected 2nd in like 2025 plus just taking his salary on would get it done?

Frank:
Meanwhile, last night was the 2nd or 3rd time this season that Bullock did something dumb with the ball in the closing seconds. I think it was a TO last time, this time a held ball.Some dudes just don’t have the handle or the decision-making to have the ball in their hands at that point in the game.I know he redeemed himself on defense but geez man.

I don’t think he was to blame for that issue, he was given the ball in a bad spot. Lots of players get trapped there. It was a lousy inbounds play more than anything else.

Randle shooting wasn’t good yesterday but I’ll put this game among his very best ones as a knick.
He was sensational as a point forward and I don’t give him easily credit despite him turning it around triumphantly!

Maybe I’m squinting a bit but I thought Knox played decently on D except for one baseline drive…

I didn’t hear any word on Noel after the game so I assume it was just a strategic choice to play Taj the last ~17 minutes without a break. Burks also played the last 17 minutes with no break. RJ played the entire second half. Randle played 22 2nd half minutes. I know we’re a little short-handed right now and Thibs is always going to be a ride with his guys kind of coach but man he is asking a lot from these guys right now. Starting Sunday we don’t have two days in a row off until April 22-23, 18 games in 32 days with 3 separate back to backs in there. We’re in the thick of a playoff chase but Thibs has to find a way to keep the minutes at least moderately under control. This is still a building season for us and one serious injury to the wrong guy could completely undo all the good progress that has been made this year.

Maybe there will be a trade in that period to bring some reinforcements and maybe we’ll get healthier but neither of those is a guarantee and we still need to see the bigger picture here a little bit.

Meanwhile, LaVar Ball is stirring the pot, doing an ESPN LA radio interview where he said he hoped the Pelicans traded Lonzo, because they shouldn’t be trying to turn him into a 3-and-D guy. Reading between the lines of various Berman of the Post reports, it seems clear LaVar is angling to get his eldest to the Knicks

It was a matter of time.

I’ve been saying this all week. LaVar was on record before the lottery saying he hoped LaMelo was drafted by the Knicks and it’s been obvious that both he and Lonzo hated the trade to New Orleans. So Lonzo (and Reddick) to NY makes too much sense to ignore.

That’s partly why New Orleans has been open to moving him. They know Lonzo wants out and they don’t want to match a big salary to keep him anyway. If they don’t trade him there’s a very good chance they will eventually lose him for nothing.

The only question is what it will take to get it done and are we willing to pay that price.

If it’s mostly draft assets, I’m in favor. We are unlikely to find a PG as good as Lonzo with our picks unless we can combine them to move up. Even then we are probably talking about a multi year process. But if Mitch gets involved you have to think twice. We don’t want to strengthen one position and weaken another. It’s on Thibs to evaluate the gap between Mitch vs. Nerlens long term and decide whether it’s too large to make Mitch part of the deal. It’s on the Pelicans to decide if they’ll take a deal that doesn’t include Mitch, RJ, or Quick. Maybe they’ll take some kind of deal that Includes Frank (who will fit their team just defending and standing in the corner) and/or Knox and picks.

thenamestsam:
I didn’t hear any word on Noel after the game so I assume it was just a strategic choice to play Taj the last ~17 minutes without a break. Burks also played the last 17 minutes with no break. RJ played the entire second half. Randle played 22 2nd half minutes. I know we’re a little short-handed right now and Thibs is always going to be a ride with his guys kind of coach but man he is asking a lot from these guys right now. Starting Sunday we don’t have two days in a row off until April 22-23,18 games in 32 days with 3 separate back to backs in there. We’re in the thick of a playoff chase but Thibs has to find a way to keep the minutes at least moderately under control. This is still a building season for us and one serious injury to the wrong guy could completely undo all the good progress that has been made this year.

Maybe there will be a trade in that period to bring some reinforcements and maybe we’ll get healthier but neither of those is a guarantee and we still need to see the bigger picture here a little bit.

That’s exactly why in the last few games Toppin and Knox unplayability has been so annoying and the Rivers’ exile so puzzling (despite his “official”, wink wink, paternity leave)…

I could easily picture this team sporting a new Lonzo Ball/Oladipo backcourt after the trade deadline. And in the East, a Ball/Oladipo/RJ/Randle/Mitch lineup with a Rose/Bullock/Quickley/Noah/playerX bench could make some noise, maybe a 4-seed.

But is it worth it? I would say no. Aside from having to pay Ball and Oladipo next year (if you think they’re worth it), the draft capital you’d lose in this year’s draft is probably worth more than those two players combined, even if it delays your winning timeline by a year or two.

With those 3 picks, we could easily grab 3 starter-level players (Keon Johnson, Donsumu, Greg Brown?) or do a package trade-up for a guy like Jaden Springer.

So imagine drafting Springer and, say, Ayayi (and roughly 30 extra mil of cap space) versus running out Lonzo and Oladipo. Plus, we’d get to keep (if we want) whatever trade pieces we’d lose at this deadline (aside from draft picks) like Knox, Frank, Nerlens, Rose, etc. (even if you don’t like them, they are still trade assets.) In short, the Knicks aren’t ready for “all in” trades this year. Those should be the ones that push a team to become a Finals team and not a perennial 4-6 seed.

**I know this is probably the position of most posters here, but creating a legit playoff team for the next 3 years is undeniably very appealing to many fans and definitely management/Thibs. A team with a winning record shouldn’t be poo-pooed, especially in the NY market. And as an aside, I think Oladipo will regain most of his all-star form, which still isn’t a legit #1 option but is a decent player.

Deeefense:
They are all listed day to day.The Cavalry is almost ready.

On the one hand that’s true, but on the other hand, there’s always going to be one or two guys out for one reason or another. Those guys will come back and odds are somebody else will sprain an ankle or strain a calf or go into the contact tracing program. Obviously we’re in a bad situation at the moment with such an injury stack at one position but Thibs has been riding Randle and RJ hard all season and somebody just needs to keep reminding him to see the bigger picture. If one of those guys picks up a minor injury then we’re really over a barrel.

I really enjoyed watching the team celebrate after Bullock’s steal. They really do seem like a cohesive bunch, led by their alpha dog, Julius Randle.

On the negative side, Obi Toppin played 8 minutes last night and did not score a point, grab a rebound, dish out an assist or even foul anyone. He looks completely lost and Thibs can’t get him out of the game fast enough.

If he was 19 I’d give him a pass, but for a supposedly “NBA ready” guy he looks quite the opposite.

I could easily picture this team sporting a new Lonzo Ball/Oladipo backcourt after the trade deadline.

No way I’d go all in with Oladipo. So far he’s still not the player he was in that “single” peak year.

But as far as lottery picks go, our record with lottery picks in the last few years is Frank (still struggling to become a rotation player), Knox (still struggling to become a rotation player) and Toppin (still struggling to become a rotation player). It’s a weighted crap shoot. Yes, the higher you pick and the more picks you have the greater the probability of landing a solid NBA starter on purpose or by accident, but it’s still a crap shoot that we’ll land a PG that turns out to be better than Lonzo who we know is a young, improving, huge upgrade at PG.

The reason to favor Lonzo is that he can be a nice fit with point-Randle in the half-court as an off-ball shooter while also adding a little bit of transition spice and a pretty good defender.

I don’t think Randle has become our Point Forward by design. He has become our Point Forward because we don’t have a legitimate starting PG and the rest of our offense is suspect enough that teams can still focus on shutting Randle down. The difference is that when they did that last year he did some crazy spin move into the double team and threw up a trash shot or turned the ball over. This year he’s making the right read, passing out of it, and we are knocking down some 3s with Burks and Bullock. If we had a legitimate starting PG I think Randle would handle the ball less, get fewer assists, but get better shots and not have to play as many minutes.

Deeefense: LaVar was on record before the lottery saying he hoped LaMelo was drafted by the Knicks

Me and LaVar have something in common, I guess.

ess-dog: I could easily picture this team sporting a new Lonzo Ball/Oladipo backcourt after the trade deadline.

This would be about as bad as the trade deadline could get for us. The Rockets have not won a game since February 4th and have been getting absolutely rocked. 15 of their 17 consecutive losses have been by double digits and Oladipo has been a big part of that, having played in 10 of those losses. Overall, they’re 5-13 when he plays.

If Rose and Thibs trade their 1RP for him, I suspect he shoots them out of a playoff spot and secures another lottery pick for the Rockets. It’s just crazy to think that we’re still talking about Oladipo as a trade target for really any team, given that he thinks he’s worth more than the extension offered to him by Houston. The prospect of re-signing this guy for $100M should send chills down our collective spine. It would blow the whole rebuild up to soothe Thibs’ ego.

No to Oladipo, yes to LaMelo.

I think Knox plus the Detroit 2nd rounder is pretty solid. NO could lose him for nothing.

Also, I think Thibs and Leon Rose have enough gravitas to keep Lavar in check. I mean, if he says something crazy to the media every once in awhile, who cares? As long as its not affecting the locker room, hw can be entertainment for the press and back page for all I care. Could even be a little fun to have a team mascot.

Leon has deep connections in the agent world and Thibs is a super respected coach. I think they could shut him down if needs be. He doesn’t seem as bad as he was when LaMelo first came into the league.

I just think NO isn’t in a great position of power here to ask for a king’s ransom. So if its Knox and that 2nd rounder, which is decent, that might be the best they can get or lose him for nothing in the off season. And I think trading for him now shows good faith that we really want him. Plus, you get him for THIS season, which helps with the playoff push and also gives him some experience with our young players.

The sign him and Kawhi in the summer. Don’t laugh. If the Clips lose in the second round again, Kawhi could totally leave and we might be a nice spot for him. Defense first coach, nice young core.

Lamelo/Rose
RJ/Quick
Kawhi/Burks
Randle/Obi
Mitch/Noel

That’s a team that could get to the finals if all breaks right and we got picks and youth to keep it going. Defense would be pretty nasty for that team.

Let me dream, folks.

I think Julius is in the role that he is because he’s the only player on our team that needs to be double-teamed regularly. Maybe RJ or Burks in a mouse in the house match-up, but that’s it. Any player who demands a double-team at any position can be in that role. So Randle’s doing what he’s doing is totally independent of whether we have a good point guard or not. A good PG will dump the ball too Randle and become yet another option for Randle to pass to when teams sag on his moves into the paint.

Ha. Yes, Lonzo. Of course I’d rather have LaMelo but Lonzo would do.

So why should Burks and Bullock not be re-signed to similar deals as the ones they are on now? They are league-average players who fit Thibs’ mindset well. If you can get a first rounder or two, fine, but what do you think they would bring back, given that they would be free agents at year’s end? I doubt that it would be very much.

Why do we want Victor Oladipo and his .499 TS%? Because he had that one good season four years ago?

He’s a downgrade from Burks and Bullock. Shit, he’s a downgrade from FRANK.

The Clippers, with a well-chronicled need for a playmaking upgrade, are exploring trade routes to acquiring New Orleans’ Lonzo Ball before next Thursday’s NBA trade deadline, league sources say.

From Stein, who also notes the Clips may have a hard time pulling this off with their lack of draft capital. But Knox and the Detroit pick probably doesn’t get it done if there’s competition — and from the kind of team LaVar might want Lonzo to stay with.

Mike V’s piece in the Athletic was great this morning – especially the reference to this interaction between RJ and Jimmy Butler that I wasn’t aware of: https://twitter.com/benjy43/status/1372559639322189828?s=20

swiftandabundant:
Ha. Yes, Lonzo. Of course I’d rather have LaMelo but Lonzo would do.

How about LiAngelo for free? 🙂

i’m not sure the pels can let lonzo go right now being only 3 games out of the 10th seed…with zion on the team – you have to make sure you continually show him that you’re trying to win, otherwise you might lose him down the road…

2b) why did the Rockets have to include the Cavs and Pacers in the Harden trade? They got Dante Exum and Oladipo when they could have had LaVert and Jarret Allen? Allen, who’s 22 years old, is already easily the 2nd best player in that 4-way trade. The Rockets really had no use for him? And why not just stick with LaVert, who’s younger and kind of better than Oladipo anyway?

I never understood that. They obviously had/have no intention of keeping Oladipo, so I wonder if they just want a totally clean cap sheet going forward.

Alan: From Stein, who also notes the Clips may have a hard time pulling this off with their lack of draft capital. But Knox and the Detroit pick probably doesn’t get it done if there’s competition — and from the kind of team LaVar might want Lonzo to stay with.

This seems extremely transparent as a means of scaring the Knicks into upping their offer by bringing the specter of another big market team.
Clips can’t trade a 1st round pick until 2028
They do have some seconds (2023 Portland, 2024-2026 Detroit).
The only young player of note on a good contract on their team is Terrence Mann

Honestly – Knox and the 2021 Detroit pick is better than anything the Clips can offer unless they’re throwing in their actual real rotation players ie. Lou Williams. Which I guess is possible, but the Pels problem is defense, not whatever Lou Williams provides off the bench.

JK47:
Why do we want Victor Oladipo and his .499 TS%? Because he had that one good season four years ago?

He’s a downgrade from Burks and Bullock. Shit, he’s a downgrade from FRANK.

This. Oladipo single handedly won us our last game against Indy because he shot so poorly and just kept shooting. I’d gladly take him for a 1st or 2 though.

he once even sold the free and clear ownership of a serialized gif of daniel house catching an inbounds pass for mere money.

bahahah, talk about cheap!

I just got this strong feeling that we are indeed going to trade for Lonzo. That Stein “leak” about the Clippers says to me that the negotiations are ongoing and Griffin is looking for any leverage he can find.

My guess is that Leon Rose knows what’s real and what’s not real. For example, Aaron Mintz is Paul George’s agent, and Aaron Mintz works for…. you guessed it! CAA. Have to figure the Clips would at least run such a Big Deal past their two superstars.

“Knox + DET 2021 — if you don’t like that, then we’re going to give him a huge offer sheet and you’ll lose him for nothing. No one else is going to trade for him because everyone knows he wants to come to the Knicks”. That is definitely how the convo is going from Leon’s side.

>>> I’m just going to keep saying Kawhi until I secret it into existence. <<<

I'm a charter member of Team Dreamer, swift, and I welcome your unbridled optimism.

But I'm as sure as anyone who knows nothing can be that the only reason Kawhi isn't already signed up long term is that he's waiting to finish this year so he can get 10-year player money. He's going nowhere.

Yeah I just find it hard to believe The Clips would have anything left to trade at this point besides players that are on their team right now and if its anyone good then its pointless to trade for Lonzo bc you gain in one area but lose in another. Lou Williams? The Clips have to keep him and would NO really want him anyways given his age?

Throw in a 2023 second rounder too since we have like 7 of them.

Goes to show how much a crapshoot the draft is.
Same team and GM that chose Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green has basically whiffed continuously ever since then (although Jordan Poole is looking better). Yes, we’re talking later picks in the draft, but still…

Sam Presti had that amazing run in the 2000s (Durant, Ibaka, Westbrook, Harden) but in the last 11 drafts the highlights are Steven Adams and Eric Bledsoe (other 1st rounders they kept = Terrence Ferguson, Cam Payne, Perry Jones, Mitch McGary, Reggie Jackson).

You should probably take a look at the transactions he made as Cavs GM before you give him all the credit. He’s really good when he has all the leverage. But when the tables are turned…

You mean like the time he got an unprotected 1st from the Clippers for Mo Williams that turned out to be Kyrie Irving?

Most of his tenure as a Cavs GM was spent acquiring players for LeBron. Maybe as a buyer he’s paid full price, but whenever he has been a seller he’s gotten a pound of flesh.

And Anthony Davis sure didn’t leave him with a lot of leverage, either.

Man, I so hope Lonzo comes to NYC. He’s currently 4th among PGs in terms of RPM only behind Steph, Conley, Graham. He’s the 2nd most offensive productive PG according to ORPM behind only Steph. He makes tons of sense for this team on multiple levels and would make us such a much more fun team to watch.

There’s no world in which Lonzo on whatever deal they have to match isn’t tradable for a 2nd round pick (Knox has ~0 value) so there’s no reason for them to take that offer now, particularly when they’re still just about hanging on in the playoff race.

If the Knicks sign Lonzo to an offer sheet and the Pels match, Lonzo has a no-trade clause for a year. Meanwhile, let’s say the offer sheet is for $22MM starting – that would put the Pels at $112MM for 9 players. The salary cap next year is $112MM. Josh Hart is also someone they’d like to keep – let’s say he gets $8MM. So now you’re at $120MM to bring back the same team that can’t even make the play-in game…

Let’s say they’d rather do that than lose Lonzo in a bad deal. But if they suck again next year in Zion’s 3rd year… whose to say Zion isn’t the guy to just take the qualifying offer and take off in UFA? He’ll have made $45MM in salary by end of year 4, not to mention whatever endorsements.

IMHO, the only way they can comfortably bring Lonzo back is to foist Bledsoe’s contract on someone. But it’d probably take a 1st and a 2nd to get someone to take Bledsoe. They’ve got plenty of picks, so I guess they could do that.

I guess an interesting possibility is if the Knicks agree to take Bledsoe on in addition to Lonzo. We’d have to send back $15MM in salary- that’d be like Knox Payton Rose or something.

Frank/Knox/Payton works in the trade machine for Bledsoe and Lonzo, but the pick compensation is where that trade would get interesting. They’d want something for Lonzo, but Bledsoe and his contract suck so that has to counterbalance Lonzo’s value to some degree. On our end, we’d be giving them a pupu platter, so you’d think they’d want some pick compensation to balance it out. Kind of a fascinating potential deal, actually, depending on how cap space and flexibility gets valued.

***If the Knicks sign Lonzo to an offer sheet and the Pels match, Lonzo has a no-trade clause for a year.***

This isn’t true is it? I think that the Pelicans can’t trade Ball to the Knicks for at least one year. They can trade him to any other team though (after December 15th). Ball, himself, has no veto power in this scenario.

So now you’re at $120MM to bring back the same team that can’t even make the play-in game…

This would be a concern if their three best players weren’t 20, 23 and 23. The Pels will peak in 2024. They should stop throwing big money at old guys and start preparing to contend for the WCF. Zion is 20 years old and putting up a 4.5 BPM. It’s not unreasonable to assume that at 22 or 23, he’ll be an MVP candidate.

The best teams in the West are led by old men. Utah:

Ingles 33
Conley 33
Gobert 28
Favors 29
Clarkson 28
Mitchell 24

Do you think they’ll be contending in 2023?

LeBron is 36. He’ll probably play to 42 or 43, but at a championship level? Hard to imagine it. Best case for him is he signs for pennies with a superteam and rides younger talent deep to the playoffs.

Phoenix has Chris Paul, who, again, is very old. The top five players in MP on the Clippers are 29-34 right now. Lillard is 30. The Nuggets are young and Jokic is putting up an all-time season. They’re a contender for another five years or more. Spurs are scrappy and young but overrated with no clear superstar as in years past. The Mavs have Doncic, so they’re a playoff team for a decade. The Dubs are on the decline and are dogshit at identifying talent. No chance they contend unless Wiseman becomes Embiid this offseason. The Grizzlies are still a WIP, too, with lots of upside but underperforming future stars due to injury and other weirdness. Quite young but a murky future — will they be perennial 7-seeds or will Morant, Jackson, Melton and Clarke take the leap? Unclear. And OKC has half of the league’s picks, including three firsts, a swap, and a condition 1RP from GSW that will likely become MIN’s 2nd next year. Then three firsts in 2022 and possibly three firsts in 2023. They could be the 2011 Thunder all over again, or become the Magic 2.0 with a 30-win core that has no upside.

I’m standing pat if I’m the Pels.

Frank: IMHO, the only way they can comfortably bring Lonzo back is to foist Bledsoe’s contract on someone. But it’d probably take a 1st and a 2nd to get someone to take Bledsoe. They’ve got plenty of picks, so I guess they could do that.

Would anyone think of just taking Bledsoe off of the Pelicans hands for a decent first? He’s on the books at 18m next year but only 3.9m of his 2022/23 salary is guaranteed. He’s struggled this year but for his career he’s been a solid starter: 1.9 career BPM- he was 1.8 last year for the Bucks. He’s basically the good version of Elfrid. He doesn’t solve any long term issues but if he upgrades the position and gets you a nice asset or two it’s not the worst idea ever. His horrible playoff play shouldn’t be too much of an issue this year and he’ll be more or less an expiring next year so maybe you can dump him for another asset next year if his play rebounds.

This isn’t true is it? I think that the Pelicans can’t trade Ball to the Knicks for at least one year. They can trade him to any other team though (after December 15th). Ball, himself, has no veto power in this scenario.

no you have it wrong. if you match an offer sheet you can’t trade the player to any team without his consent for one year.

I wonder what the Clippers are offering?

sorry to be rules nerd but one year offer sheets not allowed

Which other old declining guys who were good in 2012 do you want to trade draft assets for, Tom?

sorry to be rules nerd but one year offer sheets not allowed

Crap, should have known that.

I guess if Lonzo really wants to call his shot he has to accept the qualifying offer, which is quite a risky bet.

The Honorable Cock Jowles:
Which other old declining guys who were good in 2012 do you want to trade draft assets for, Tom?

Bledsoe was pretty good last year- the 1.8 BPM he put up would be second on the Knicks this year and he put up a 3.1 bpm the year before that. He’s stunk this year so I’d want a pick that would at least potentially be in the lottery to take him. I wouldn’t do it for a Bucks pick and I sure as heck wouldn’t give up any assets to get him.
So I’m maybe I’m just Thibs-adjacent rather Thibs himself.

d-mar:
College basketball is pretty bad to begin with, but without the crazy fans it’s even more unwatchable

I’m watching Queta against Texas Tech, not going well… losing by 14 with only 5 mins to go. 🙁
Queta is playing relatively well, i think, but if they shut him down, they don’t have another go-to player.

nicos: If I was a 21 year old multimillionaire who could afford to get the hell out of NO during July/August I might prefer it to San Diego. There’s no better small market for food/nightlife. Of course it’s also dangerous as fuck so maybe not.

It would be kind of funny if someone tried to start something with them and he pulled a Charles Barkley and threw them through a window.

Utah State 53 Texas Tech 65. No more chances to show his skills for Queta, finished today with a double-double (11 Pts, 14 Rbs, 8 Blks).

Oral Roberts is giving Ohio State the business

DRed:
Oral Roberts is giving Ohio State the business

Ohio State players should know never to take Oral for granted

Prosperity gospel wins again! Praise Capitalist Jesus!

***no you have it wrong.***

Aha, thanks.

I’ll try to think of some more questions for the ptmilo mailbag later today.

In his weekly “Ten NBA Things” on ESPN Insider, Zach Lowe talks about… Elfrid Payton (no, not in a positive way)

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31088282/ten-nba-things-like-including-james-harden-beautiful-dimes

An extract for those who couldn’t go over the paywall (please don’t report me to Disney!):

5. The wandering of Elfrid Payton

Payton’s failure to improve his jumper is the biggest reason he never met expectations. His defense was supposedly a given. Nope. He staganted there too, and that is the most disappointing part of Payton’s career so far.
He has never shaken the habit of roving aimlessly and ball-watching in no-man’s land.

(Note: there’s an embedded video of Payton wandering here)

What should Tom Thibodeau do when Payton returns? Immanuel Quickley, fill-in starter until missing Thursday’s game, is (like most rookies) a liability on defense, but I’m not sure he’s markedly worse than Payton. Quickley’s range opens room for Julius Randle, Nerlens Noel, and the bulldozing RJ Barrett; the Quickley versions of New York’s starting lineup — one with Noel, one with Mitchell Robinson — are plus-21 over 74 combined minutes.

But Payton is a Proven Veteran, and the Quickley-Derrick Rose duo has been blowing opposing second units out of the water.

I have no objection to either Bullock or Burks returning next year as a bench piece, but we need a substantial upgrade over one of them in the starting unit.

who knows how long he was playing with a bad hamstring, or just how bad it is/was – but, elf is killing us on both offense and defense…

hopefully his role is off the bench, next to rivers…

geo:
honestly, after last night’s game – i don’t know what to make of frank…

usually he’s a decent on ball defender, but, last couple of games he seems to have found a knack for getting in the other team’s passing lanes and getting deflections…

i swear, i’ve been out on him more than a few times since he’s come to new york…every once in a while though he’ll do some stuff for a few games that looks like it could be useful towards winning ball games…

he had a couple of moments last nights that were pretty cool to watch…

if he’s here next year i’ll be okay with it, if he’s gone, i’ll be okay with that too…

I’m fond of him and I’ve always hoped he became a reliable player, able to disrupt opponents’ offensive flow, lock in hot players and consistently score 10 ppg playing in the 22-25 minutes range off the bench.

But between injuries and rollercoasting (mostly bad) play he has been so frustrating that now I’m in the “whatever” camp just like you…

Bullock is a pretty good two way player and he seems to fit this team well. I’d like to see him back and he probably wouldn’t cost much.

Guarding 4 guys at the same time is what Frank does before breakfast.

dude, and then he drained a three pointer – seriously like wtf…

him going chest to chest with vucevic was even weirder…he could get to the rim 10 times a game cuz absolutely no one on either team is expecting it…

as a coach it must be soooooo frustrating to see glimpses of that, and then to watch him out there some nights like he doesn’t belong at all…

It would seem to me that the Pels would be better off moving Bledsoe by attaching an asset rather than losing Lonzo for pennies on the dollar. They are stocked with picks from the AD and Jrue trades. Well, it makes sense to me anyway.

geo: dude, and then he drained a three pointer – seriously like wtf…

him going chest to chest with vucevic was even weirder…he could get to the rim 10 times a game cuz absolutely no one on either team is expecting it…

as a coach it must be soooooo frustrating to see glimpses of that, and then to watch him out there some nights like he doesn’t belong at all…

It’s simply confidence. I still believe that Frank could have benefitted by some d league time.

Oh, BTW, don’t call me dude, geo. Lol.

NetsTown is hereby known as DudesTown now and forever. If you think I’m going to forget, reread the thread — I won’t, dude.

NetsTown: Oh, BTW, don’t call me dude, geo. Lol.

whut?

DudesTown it is – now and forever 🙂

oh shit, still at work, listening to the daily show, and – i needed that…the daily show is almost always interesting, but usually more sad and disconcerting than actually humorous…

Gordon and Fournier went nuclear…

wishing i was watching the mavs/blazers game…

i gotta imagine there is gonna come a time when luka gets tired of losing in the first or second round and ditches the sideline sodas and comes back one off season born again hard, kind of like what joker did last year…

when he does that, he’s gonna be hard to beat…

The Honorable Cock Jowles:
NetsTown is hereby known as DudesTown now and forever. If you think I’m going to forget, reread the thread — I won’t, dude.

So it shall be done.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/m8xycm/highlight_luka_with_another_ridiculous_pass_for/

We get like 15 more years of this guy

i’m not sure if you’re referencing the channing frye NBAtv stuff – but, yeah, he seemed to take some glee in repeating over and over how porzingis was getting bbq’d in crunch time…i think he mentioned it about three different times…it did seem a little personal???

or, was there someone else crushing him?

With the Pelicans in mind, I wonder if you can actually build a contender today when your two best players are dogshit defenders. The Suns are really the last team who did just that when they had Steve Nash and Amar’e Stoudemire, but can NOP do it with Zion and Ingram? Portland is always frisky and neither Lillard/McCollum are defenders, but they’re also back court guys. Bledsoe, Ball, and Adams are all at least good on defense and that hasn’t been enough for them to make the playoffs. I really do wonder about the long term prospects of NOP as a title contender if neither Ingram or Zion get their shit together. The positions they play are way too important to a team’s defense for them to stay alive in the Western Conference.

Dink: I’m praying that Wally gets a godfather offer to do college ball and leaves MSG post-haste. They’re really setting him up to replace Clyde!

That would be awesome. I’ve endured 2 decades of dreadful basketball, and yet i’m sure that would be much more painful.

Brian Cronin:
Porzingis is getting lambasted for his showing tonight and I think we’ve reached the point where the guy probably gets too much shit, as while he didn’t play well tonight, he wasn’t that bad and yet he was the story. That’s not cool.

I think except Knicks fans, everybody else is expecting KP to be something he’ll never be – a number 2 option on a champioship team, or in other words a AD to their Lebron (Luka). Until they understand this, of course he will be lambasted game after game, with the exception of some 10 or so games a season he manages to play at a high level.

There’s great court vision and then there’s whatever you call the spooky-action-at-a-distance epistemic freakshow that Luka’s got going on. The mere act of observing the momentum and position of the photons that must somehow enter his eye to trigger the neuronal cacsade that results in afferent muscle excitation and the perfect translocation of basketballs, that simple impulse to watch in order to learn how he did what seemed impossible to do, collapses the probability wave function of all the possible trajectories that his cognitive representations of player positions and movements must have simultaneously calculated and forces you to infer cause and effect where none exists. We can only watch the film one frame at a time. He sees them all at once.

Unreason: There’s great court vision and then there’s whatever you call the spooky-action-at-a-distance epistemic freakshow that Luka’s got going on. The mere act of observing the momentum and position of the photons that must somehow enter his eye to trigger the neuronal cacsade that results in afferent muscle excitation and the perfect translocation of basketballs, that simple impulse to watch in order to learn how he did what seemed impossible to do, collapses the probability wave function of all the possible trajectories that his cognitive representations of player positions and movements must have simultaneously calculated and forces you to infer cause and effect where none exists. We can only watch the film one frame at a time. He sees them all at once.

I would offer Knox, Frank, and the Dallas pick top-14 protected. Maybe a couple seconds if they agree to send Porzingis to the Rockets.

Porzingis is supposed to be the anchor of their defense and their defense is crap. He’s a big reason why it’s crap. You can roast him in space pretty easily and in fact he has become a defender that opposing teams look to exploit.

Most Mavs fans want to dump him, it’s a common sentiment on their blogs. He’s a poor use of a max contract and I’m glad he’s somebody else’s problem.

KP seems to be one of those lightening rod personalities.

it was a bit of a weird vibe when Channing Frye kept going on about him getting bbq’d by cj and dame after the mav/blazers game…

I don’t know, maybe it was just about basketball…

cybersoze:

When Mitch feels good so do I. Sympatico.

The Hawks ’20-21 are like the weirdest team ever.

I still love me some Tyrese Haliburton but his numbers are not so lofty these days…might be some rookie wall stuff but still…

Meanwhile, Thibs sounded a bit more measured regarding the playoffs-or-bust mentality and the trade deadline:

“It’s important for us to go step-by-step and not skip over things,’’ Thibodeau said. “The whole goal this year is to build a foundation and the right type of habits. Wherever that leads us, it leads us. Our players have responded. In this league, you’re always looking for player development first, then look at the draft and free agency, then trades. You never stop working in all four areas. Every day it’s how can we make the team better. That’s where our focus lies with coaches, front office and players. We’re all tied together. We’re going to do what’s best for the Knicks.’’

It would be nice to see how the sixers play on the second game of a b2b against our hungry for revenge hyaenas…

The LeBron injury really gives you a perspective on what a surreal career he’s had as a pro for 17 years. The guy averages 70 games a season. And he’s probably played about 2 more full seasons in the playoffs. It’s really supernatural.

cgreene:
The LeBron injury really gives you a perspective on what a surreal career he’s had as a pro for 17 years. The guy averages 70 games a season. And he’s probably played about 2 more full seasons in the playoffs. It’s really supernatural.

He’s played 260 playoff games so another 3+ seasons. Wow

Haliburton injured his shooting wrist back in early February, right? I’m not concerned.

It’s now Jokic’s trophy to lose. And he will deserve it if he keeps up his play.

High ankle sprains are not all alike. Knowing LeBron, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s back in 2-3 weeks.

Jordan was pretty durable too. Played all 82 games his rookie year, had his injury plagued 2nd season but then played 82, 82, 81, 82, 82, 80 and 78 games. After his retirement and shortened comeback season he did not miss a game during their 2nd 3peat, he played in all 82 games all 3 seasons. Heck even with the Wizards he played 60 games in his first season but then played in all 82 games in his 2nd and final season.

He also played in 179 playoff games where he averaged 42 mins per game.

***With the Pelicans in mind, I wonder if you can actually build a contender today when your two best players are dogshit defenders***

I think in the NBA anything is possible when you have an unstoppable force on your side, which Zion clearly is going to be (if he’s not there already). People here were certainly down on the Warriors roster back in the summer of 2014. I remember an extended conversation with the poster Lavor Postell (who may have been the real Lavor Postell for all I know), where he argued that Kerr was making a drastic mistake choosing the Warriors over the Knicks because the Warriors roster was so flawed and locked into mediocrity for as far as the cap could see. All it took to turn an offensive savant and an inefficient sidekick into the greatest juggernaut in 20 years was the emergence of a 2nd round pick into a defensive DPOY glue-guy. Not saying it’s easy, or is certain to happen for them. But the Pelicans have done the hard part: gotten the savant. The rest is about luck, system, and a little more luck.

The Honorable Cock Jowles: It’s now Jokic’s trophy to lose. And he will deserve it if he keeps up his play.

Is it? Jokic is obviously having a monster season but Denver’s tied with Portland at 5; voters don’t tend to reward players on such a low seed with MVP. The only player I can think of winning an MVP on a team like that is Westbrook and he had to average a triple double to do it and he was far from unanimous. Right now, considering injuries, record, and stats I think the MVP could come down to Giannis vs Chris Paul.

MVP is silly, and who cares and all, but it seems that in this weirdo season it should be a three man race between Lillard, Jokic, and Embiid. Anybody else is kind of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Alan: Everything I’ve read/heard from the national media guys like Zach Lowe is that nobody wants to vote for Giannis again if they can help it. It’s a mix of looking for a new story and holding his playoff failures against him. Lowe said something like, all the other threepeat MVPs had a championship before or at least midway through the threepeat.

I did see some of that as well, I’m just not sure how many viable candidates are actually left. I kind of thought Lebron might get it this year, but now he’s down. Maybe this is Lillard’s year? I think he has a case, especially now that some of the bigger names are out. I also think Jokic would be a fine pick.

It’s really funny how just taking a bunch of days off helped the Knicks’ position in the standings, with the Hornets and the Celtics both losing three straight games. However, this is the last big stretch of days off for the Knicks, I believe.

It’s incredible that there is 4.5 games between the 4th and 11th seed. And in two weeks ATL and TOR have switched places at the top and bottom of that 8-car pile-up.

It’s funny what an 8-game winning streak and a 7-game losing streak can do for two teams’ fortunes!

Z-man:
High ankle sprains are not all alike. Knowing LeBron, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s back in 2-3 weeks.

It is true that “high ankle sprains” are not all alike but I doubt he will be back in 2-3 weeks. High ankle sprains are a tear of the interosseus membrane (a ligament like tissue between the tibia and fibula (the two lower leg bones). They do not heal properly on their own and require internal fixation to stabilize the injury site (surgery to insert a Titanium metal screw to hold the two bones together). Expect the full 6-8 weeks and more if there is any complications.

Brian Cronin:
So Lebron might not even be back for the start of the playoffs?

There are 9 more weeks of the season so not unless there is a healing complication. Since he was diagnosed and treated promptly, has health and age on his side, complications are less likely than the average case.

what exactly is this Hawks story? Did they hate Lloyd Pierce? Did Nate McMillian figure something out?

It’s not quite Fiz—->Miller, but there are similarities. Pierce got fired right before a bunch of injured players returned and the schedule got much easier. So McMillan is benefiting from some things Pierce never really had access to.

Hubert:
what exactly is this Hawks story? Did they hate Lloyd Pierce? Did Nate McMillian figure something out?

Trae Young surely “hate” Pierce, it’s well documented (a good piece on that could be found in The Athletic).

They start getting players back, their scheduled softened and they have been incredibly lucky with other team’s injuries, as yesterday win showed (see my previous post for details).

As Nicos pointed out their next games are vs Clippers, Denver, GS, SA, and Phoenix, we’ll see if they could keep this pace.

They were considered a surefire playoff team before the season and the talent level is really high but it could still be a fluke.

Also, rumors are they wanted to fire Pierce last year, but the Hawks never got in the bubble and he was very active in the BLM movement so they fear a negative reaction from fans and public opinion.

KnickFanInCelticLand: They do not heal properly on their own and require internal fixation to stabilize the injury site (surgery to insert a Titanium metal screw to hold the two bones together). Expect the full 6-8 weeks and more if there is any complications.

This depends on the severity of the damage to the ligament. The diagnosis is about involvement, not severity. Most do not require surgery.

Top 10 seeds, not scenes. Talk to text is always more trouble than it’s worth.

They start getting players back, their scheduled softened and they have been incredibly lucky with other team’s injuries, as yesterday win showed (see my previous post for details).

I would add Cam Reddish getting hurt. His numbers are awful and he was playing 29 mpg for the Hawks.

As some, including strat, have pointed out, there is value in winning in and of itself. The fact that we are doing it without compromising future flexibility and on the backs of several young players (as well as vets who could possibly be part of the future like Bullock, Burks and Noel) make it all the more palatable.

What also makes it palatable is the unbelievable chemistry of the team. It’s hard to believe that a team so oddly constructed with so many contract year types is playing like a cohesive unit. They really seem to like each other and to be playing unselfishly and hard every night. They seem to have embraced the “next man up” philosophy when someone gets hurt, the guys out of the rotation or getting limited minutes have stayed ready and have contributed when called upon. And our only “star” doesn’t seem to have an ounce of diva in him, just a consummate lunch pail type that Knicks fans relate to.

It will be bittersweet at draft time when we see the likes of Suggs and Cunningham fall off the board, but when IQ is in the ROY running and RJ is a Most Improved candidate, you can sort of live with that, especially in what looks like a deep draft class.

They really seem to like each other and to be playing unselfishly and hard every night.

It’s amazing.

Off the top of me head I can only recall two games where I thought they came out flat and didn’t play hard. A few times I expected them to come out flat and they played a really hard and intense game. They are mostly a very likeable group and very easy to root for. You can tell they really like each other too. It’s tricky to make trades in a situation like that. You want to make the team better but you don’t want to ruin the love fest.

ptmilo:
put me down for raptors finishing top ten if they don’t sell

Agreed, they’re just in a bad way right now. Sort of like Frank’s jumper (and RJ’s earlier, even IQ had a cold spell) they just need to get off the schneid.

I don’t really believe in the Bulls, they seem like the team most likely to fall out of the top 10. I could see Orlando going on a big run at some point, but it might be too little too late unless we go on a bender (which we surely will if Randle goes down, heaven forbid!). Indiana should be good if Levert and Brogdan stay healthy. So if Toronto replaces Chicago, that seems like your top 10 right there.

***Damian Lillard 20/1***

Wait, what??

I don’t gamble, but if I was to start, I might start here. Not only has Lillard been a top 3 player this year both statistically and to the eye test, but he meets the narrative that MVP voters love. #1 he’s leading the league in points, #2 he’s carried his team to a .600 record in the west BY HIMSELF, #3 his body of work has earned him the status of “superstar”, and #4 he’s a great pro and a great ambassador for the league.

How this isn’t a two-man conversation between Lillard and Jokic I don’t understand, (I didn’t realize Embiid was set to miss extended time, narrowing the field even more). Portland and Denver even have the same record. What am I not seeing that the Vegas oddsmakers are depending on?

swiftandabundant:
I know he won’t win it and it’s not just me being a Knicks fan. But I honestly think Randle deserves at least some MVP voting love. We would be nowhere without him this season. I know the award is usually only given to the best player on a handful of legit contenders but think about what our record would be right now if we’d traded Randle this off season and we’re starting OBI instead. Or even just an average veteran PF. We’d easily be one of the worst teams in the league.

I disagree, and don’t think Randle deserves a single MVP vote. He’s having a great year and is indispensable to our team’s “success,” but there are a bunch of players that are much better than him no matter what measuring stick you use. He’s simply not a legit MVP candidate, and for any voter to think that he is would reek of an agenda.

Z-man:
Not sure what ther competition is…Nic Batum?

No way they give it to Batum for playing like shit on purpose in Charlotte.

X-Man mansplaining ankle injuries to an osteopath is peak Knickerblogger

iserp:
I guess Jerami Grant will have a strong case for MIP, too

True. His team being among the worst in the NBA will probably hurt.

Z-man,

The title is Most Valuable Player, not Best Player In NBA This Season. The narrative behind the player and team is a huge part of who gets it. It’s not just about stats. I agree with your facts but think you miss the sentiment of my post. For his team this season, Randle is one of the most valuable players in terms of what he’s done for the team. Throw in the fact thats it’s the Knicks and we’ve been a joke for twenty years, I think he deserves some symbolic votes. That’s all I’m saying.

Here’s a more scholarly article: “Time to Return to Play After High Ankle Sprains in Collegiate Football Players: A Prediction Model”

Mean time to return to unrestricted play was 15.5 ± 9.5 days (range, 2-30 days). Injury severity measurements included mean height of tenderness of 9.9 ± 4.6 cm (range, 1.8-17.8 cm) and mean height of zone of injury on ultrasound of 3.9 ± 4.9 cm (range, 0-20.3 cm).

When the ultrasound findings were compared with number of days to return to play, patients with an intact interosseous membrane had an average return to play of 12.6 days (range, 2-26 days), and those with an interosseous membrane tear had an average of 19.6 days (range, 8-30 days), which was not statistically significant (P = 0.19).

Pretty remarkable how rare the Knicks have had MVP candidates. Melo finished 3rd in the 2012-13 season and Ewing had 6 seasons when he finished in the Top 5.

Alan: If we fall apart completely, we wind up in the lottery, and that gives us a better draft pick, and maybe a long shot chance at one of the star prospects. But it’s a bad look, and it erases a lot of the good karma we’ve had and a lot of the image rehab we’ve had around the league.

While I will not actively root for this, this is the best possible outcome for us.

I seriously doubt we would suffer any loss in the karma dept if we struggled down the stretch. We’ve accomplished what we needed to this year and I don’t think it would be tarnished by a bad stretch at the end.

Besides, there is no free agent reward this year. Next year is much more important for karma.

Click on Jordan’s BBR page to get a reminder on who the GOAT really is. It’s really incredible how amazing he was with the Bulls.

The Knicks are 6th in the East with only 30 games remaining and people are still talking about preferring to finish in the lottery. Tell that to the players who celebrated like crazy after Bullock’s steal to beat Orlando.

If you’ve been watching this team all season how could you possibly hope they lose down the stretch and miss the playoffs considering how hard they’ve played all season and how much they obviously care about making the playoffs?

Alan: I keep going back-and-forth on what the ideal outcome for the season is

It’s easy, Alan, the ideal outcome would be getting the 6th place (to avoid the impredictability of the play-in) by 0.5 games ahead of the Celtics, with a win in the last game against… the Celtics (@MSG).

BigBlueAL: Pretty remarkable how rare the Knicks have had MVP candidates. Melo finished 3rd in the 2012-13 season and Ewing had 6 seasons when he finished in the Top 5.

If you could see the future and you’d tell me now that we’ll have a player finishing 6 times in the Top5 for MVP this decade, i would be a happy man.

put me down for raptors finishing top ten if they don’t sell

I agree.

IMO, that’s clearly a team that’s better than us that’s only behind us because so many key players have missed a lot of games. IMO, the Celtics are also clearly better than us. After that, a couple that are behind us are probably better than us but we are close enough that it could go either way for the top 10 depending on injuries, Covid, what kind of moves all these teams make next week, and if one of our young players breaks out to another level down the stretch.

Ewing finished 5th or 4th in MVP voting in 6 of 7 seasons. Also was Top 10 in the NBA in points, rebounds and blocks per game for 8 seasons in a row. He was as great as you can be without ever actually being the best player in the league.

Hubert:
BBA this schtick of yours is quite tired. Mike Honcho nailed it.

I’ll root for us to win every game but I’m not ignorant to the fact that we’re probably much better off if end up with a 20% chance for a top 4 pick.

+1

The best case scenario is that RJ and IQ continue their development and that it’s real, Toppin starts getting some sets and plays run for him and makes some strides, and the Knicks get another lottery pick.

Everything else is a less good scenario. They might not be “bad” scenarios, but they aren’t the best scenario.

Like a bunch of other people said, this doesn’t mean we root for them to lose.

I trust very little about this season. It’s marinating in fluke.

Nowhere near as tiring as people openly rooting to be in the lottery because this will finally be the time they get lucky and draft the franchise savior.

the tired part of your schtick is the part where you make this shit up.

you either can’t read or you actively ignore words on purpose so you can promote yourself as the one true knicks fan.

either way, it’s tiresome. No one is rooting for us to lose.

The idea would then be to see who out of Bullock, Burks, Noel, Rose, Payton, Taj, and Frank (if he’s not traded this week), we want to bring back next year based on the price and who else is available in trades and free agency.

to be clear, Strat, you think

a) this information is more valuable than a top 5 pick, and

b) we need to make the playoffs to figure out which of these guys we should re-sign?

that’s your hill?

what do you expect to learn about Bullock, Butks, and Payton in one playoff series that isn’t already apparent?

If you’ve been watching this team all season how could you possibly hope they lose down the stretch and miss the playoffs considering how hard they’ve played all season and how much they obviously care about making the playoffs?

LITERALLY NO ONE SAID THEY WERE HOPING THE KNICKS WOULD LOSE

E, all merc’d out: I trust very little about this season. It’s marinating in fluke.

I’ve never been bullish on RJ but he’s been much, much better this year and he won’t be able to legally drink for three years. Quickley could shoot before NYK and again, it’s damn near impossible to imagine him getting worse at it. Unless they pull a Wiggins and Fultz, respectively, the core of this unusual team has nowhere to go but up.

Hubert, yet another poster (BBA) who “ignore (your) words”? Most misrepresented person in history or perhaps Hubert your proclivity to make provocative points many times lack factual bases. Interesting reading your first takes but tiresome reading your rebuttals.

MONTHS* wow

Boys, relax before I send you to your rooms.

“As we play the Fighting Illini, we ask for special help to overcome this team and get a great win. We hope to score early and make our opponents nervous. We have a great opportunity to convert rebounds as this team makes about 50% of layups and 30% of its three pointers. Our defense can take care of that.”

Supply-side Jesus is pretty good with econometrics, or so He tells me through His corporate lobbyists and enthralled politicians.

Isn’t Jowles on team optimist one of the signs of the apocalypse? I believe it is! 😀

BernieEarnie:
Hubert,yet another poster (BBA) who “ignore (your) words”?Most misrepresented person in history or perhaps Hubert your proclivity to make provocative points many times lack factual bases.Interesting reading your first takes but tiresome reading your rebuttals.

Hubert??? Naaaah…..

As it’s better to laugh of things… Hubert’s comments trying to reach BBA

The Honorable Cock Jowles:
Supply-side Jesus is pretty good with econometrics, or so He tells me through His corporate lobbyists and enthralled politicians.

Also, issuing subtle putdowns during prayer is a time-honored church tradition that traverses the Protestant-Catholic divide

From Kevin O’Connor at The Ringer:

There’s skepticism around the league that the Pelicans will move Lonzo Ball ahead of the deadline, but that won’t stop teams from trying. League sources say the Bulls and Hawks are both in pursuit. Chicago has offered Tomas Satoransky and second-round picks, but New Orleans is asking for at least one good first-round pick or a young player. Talks with Atlanta have revolved around Cam Reddish.

New Orleans’s leverage is dinged by the fact both Chicago and Atlanta will have cap space to make an expensive offer to Ball this offseason. If the Pelicans wait, they might be able to sign-and-trade Ball to a wider list of teams during the offseason. But they’d also be at risk of losing him for nothing or be forced to match a contract more pricey than they’d like.

Too rich for my blood now, and maybe in the offseason, too.

If the cost is a 1st, I think the Knicks should jump onto Ball, even if it means matching a max offer in the offseason.

Throughout these years we have already seen that the PG market is dire, and it does not seem to be any different in the future. We have whiffed on Haliburton, and we cannot rely on getting a good PG on the draft (as we have not been able to do so in the last years). Even if it looks like an overpay, market scarcity makes it a good deal.

Is Lonzo Ball really worth it though? His 3pt shooting has improved and he’s always been a really good defender but he averages 1 FTA/G for his career and has never had a season with a .100 WS/48. His TS% for his career is 50%

He’s a huge upgrade to what the Knicks have right now and I wouldn’t be against acquiring him but I don’t think he’s gonna be worth what it’s gonna take to sign him.

Ben Simmons is playing tonight after sitting out last night. Knicks haven’t been as lucky lately with injuries to both themselves and their opponents. Still Philly is without Embiid and Curry while playing the 2nd night of a back to back so Knicks have a good chance to win tonight and extract some revenge from Tuesday.

I don’t get the infatuation with Ball. He’s aight but better than him will come along at the price he will likely command.

Now LaMelo, that’s another story….

ATL can play Ball at the 2. If it costs them Cam Reddish, they aren’t losing any sleep. They have Gallo at the 4 too, so it’s not like they really have a hole there.

LaVar is complaining that NOLA turned Lonzo from a point guard into a 3-and-D guy. Question is, have they done this because they know that Zion and Ingram are their future, and the offense should run through them? Or because they realize that Lonzo isn’t really a point guard? If he’s being misused and would solve our forever problem at the position, then maybe it is worth giving up a first plus giving him a big contract next year. If he’s an idealized version of Frank? No.

BernieEarnie: Hubert, yet another poster (BBA) who “ignore (your) words”? Most misrepresented person in history or perhaps Hubert your proclivity to make provocative points many times lack factual bases. Interesting reading your first takes but tiresome reading your rebuttals.

read them, you ignorant twit. quote the part where I said I’m rooting for the knicks to lose or shut the fuck up and change your name again bc you’ve already been discredited 20 times.

I’m cool with Thibs easing Mitch back in there.

With Mitch back, I wonder if Taj will get some of Obi’s minutes as the backup PF to Randle.