NY Post: Knicks nip Pacers to reach .500, pull into fourth place in Eastern Conference

Good win and man it feels so good to be a respectable team (plus, Grapefruit League starts today, days are getting longer, you could feel spring in the air).

Julius Randle has transformed right before our eyes from a twirling turnover machine to a legitimate All-Star and it’s been really nice to watch.

With one exception this team is easy to root for, they never give up (yesterday was another case study, the first 18 min were bad).
They need to bathe in the grit and grind à la Memphis, always keep 100% laser focused on defense and never relentle.
Every time they get too fancy or take their foot off the pedal they get killed and when it happens they could lose with everyone, because the talent is what it is.

I’m not a Thibs hater, he and the coaches are doing a very good job with the defense and allowing Randle to show his potential within a system that helps him not to overdo it too often.

Pointing to some perceived flaws is not “hate”, let’s not shape every discussion in a “with me or against me” argument, reality is way more nuanced.

I don’t like his feticism for former players and yesterday he played Rose way too much and IQ too little.
Watching the game I never thought Rose could have 11 assists, on the other hand I would have bet on more turnovers, he become careless as the game went on..
I think he’s effective if used 20-25 minutes, 38 like yesterday is really too much, he doesn’t seem fit enough to support it.

We’re playing with the same rules that everybody use, I don’t think Dallas feels bad for beating the Nets without Durant and Irving, so I’m happy with our position in the standings regardless.
We need to bank as much games as possible now, because the second half schedule’s start’s gonna be brutal.

Tonight’s game vs the Pistons is gonna be rough, being down two centers and a point guard. I hope this means more minutes for Obi at the 4 with Randle sliding to the 5 when Noel takes a breather. It feels like this team could use another deep bench big body.

1. Thibs is a good coach and he’s making a huge difference in how this team performs, especially on defense.

2. The Mercs are getting way too many minutes and it hurts the team’s long term chances of becoming great.

Is this a reasonable take?

Ingmarrrr:
1. Thibs is a good coach and he’s making a huge difference in how this team performs, especially on defense.

2. The Mercs are getting way too many minutes and it hurts the team’s long term chances of becoming great.

Is this a reasonable take?

I think #1 is self-evident, as close to a fact as you can get.

#2 is a reasonable opinion, but there are valid counter-arguments that we’ve gone over…in short, while it is agreed that we would mostly all like to see the young players more, it is not determined whether young players develop better via “tough love” or being used more, either as on equal footing with vets (say, Rose vs. IQ) or in spite of bad play (say, Obi or Knox). As to “mercs”, surely winning more games on the backs of players not likely to be a part of the future dilutes the odds of drafting a franchise player. But with the flattened odds, the impact is less than it was in the past. Winning theoretically builds credibility that could lure free agents, which some believe is just as expedient of a path to building a long-term contender. It’s also possible that the mercs like Noel (yay!) or Rose (barf!) will be re-upped. There’s no consensus on this, although the preponderance of posters seem to prefer the “play the kids and lose more games as a result” route.

Z-man: in short [… shortened as to not run into the words limit …] “play the kids and lose more games as a result” route.

Thanks for summarizing this in both posts, very cool.

I wonder how do we interpret the evidence we have on our players.

1. Frank got a lot of minutes (is this actually true, relatively to others with his production level?), performed horribly on offense and now in his 4th season stunningly has good advanced stats, although in limited minutes.

2. Knox got a ton of minutes, played at bust level, and now in his 3rd year is still a bust.

3. Mitch got less than the max minutes he could stay on the court for in his first 2 seasons, and now in his 3rd is a competent starter.

4. RJ got what seemed like way too many minutes in his 1st year, and now in his 2nd his stats are mediocre but clearly improved and seems like he’s on a good trajectory.

Based on the above can we come to any conclusion? I wish someone took the time to do research for the past 3-4 years across the entire league.

2. Knox got a ton of minutes, played at bust level, and now in his 3rd year is still a bust.

Knox is a trickier case because he played way too much in his first season and then was frequently in the doghouse in his second and now third. He also seems to have much less business being in the NBA than any of our other recent prospects. So… dunno.

Ingmarrrr: 1. Frank got a lot of minutes (is this actually true, relatively to others with his production level?), performed horribly on offense and now in his 4th season stunningly has good advanced stats, although in limited minutes.

Most feel that Frank is at least competent in a 3-and-D role and might actually flourish if he played more. I, for one, wonder why defense-centric Thibs doesn’t spot him in more frequently, especially when rotation players are struggling. At this point, the prospects don’t look great…unless Frank continues to play better and better tonight and until Payton returns, it’s unlikely he will rejoin the rotation unless there is a trade or an injury.

Ingmarrrr: 2. Knox got a ton of minutes, played at bust level, and now in his 3rd year is still a bust.

His defense is still awful and he is still prone to vanishing on O. Yes, still a bust.

Ingmarrrr: 3. Mitch got less than the max minutes he could stay on the court for in his first 2 seasons, and now in his 3rd is a competent starter.

There was a lot of anxiety that Thibs would start Noel over Mitch, which turned out not to be true. However, Mitch’s offensive game has not developed one iota, making him somewhat less of a golden child around here. That Noel is giving Mitch-level production at $5 million suggests that Mitch is not as untouchable as folks thought going into the season.

#4: RJ had a god-awful first 8 or 9 games. Since then he’s been mostly very solid…a bit erratic as you would expect from a 20yo but at least you can visualize a path to an all-star appearance. There is still a serious debate about his ceiling, and some (like me) wonder whether he might be best thought of as trade bait for a true star before his rookie contract runs out and you have to max him, in which case he will probably be overpaid. But his hard floor is quality starter on a good team, which is comforting given how badly he played at the start of the season.

tnfh, I hear you, but viewed differently, that is the beauty of the merc situation. You don’t have roster spots tied up in long-term salary and you can free up a spot at any time simply by waiving one of the mercs. There are also the highly fungible two-way deals. If the Knicks felt strongly about Patton after getting a good look at him, they could have easily locked him up.

I expect that there will be some roster moves made around the trade deadline, either picking up waived players or filling holes left by trades with more players going out than coming in. Rivers is surely a goner, and I wouldn’t be shocked if one of Payton/Bullock/Burks gets traded or waived.

Iggy is not a good player. We need to move on from him.

BTW, did anyone notice that IQ was using a massage gun on his calf when he was on the bench?

The other issues are:

1. the RECORD isn’t actually that good

2. the RECORD is being achieved in part by a trick that is kinda smoke & mirrors, i.e. leaning on your starters more than any team in the league (that’s an actual stat this time that I didn’t make up).

So maybe chill out a bit, and if people want to say IQ should start or Frank deserves some burn, don’t act like we’re haters of an almighty god.

it is not determined whether young players develop better via “tough love” or being used more, either as on equal footing with vets (say, Rose vs. IQ) or in spite of bad play (say, Obi or Knox). As to “mercs”,

I think players do most of their skill development in the off season and practice, but there is an element of “experience” that is also part of development process that is probably different for each player.

Beyond just their skill level, Quickley is a rookie, but he was mentally ready to come in and perform under pressure right away.

Frank still looked like a deer in a headlight at times in year 3.

I would say they both benefit their skill more practicing, but Frank needed the court time more to learn how to relax and get comfortable, not worry if he made a mistake, etc..

I think the playoffs are the next level in that mental development. It’s one thing to hit 2 late free throws in game 34 against the Pacers and another to hit them in game 6 on the road when you are down 3-2 in the series playing the Bucks in the conference finals. That partly why they want to get into the playoffs.

I like our record, but I’m more interested in the fact that we sucked at defense for quite a long time and now we are among the league leaders with a lot of same players we’ve had.

Do you think coaching matters yet?

One point that hasn’t been discussed is that this season is shorter by 10 games and we didn’t play in the bubble. Players should be able to handle more minutes before wearing down this season. If it get ridiculously excessive it could have an impact. We have a few guys (like Rose, Taj, and Noel) that will have to be watched, especially on back to backs and during tough parts of the schedule. But I don’t think we are anywhere near that point yet. We’ll see what he does tonight on a B2B after a tough game last night.

People that don’t like Thibs will grasp at anything to criticize him because they didn’t get the coach they wanted. It would practically be impossible to do better unless maybe we had Pop here.

***It’s as good or better than the Celts, Heat, Raptors, Pacers and Hawks, all who any rational person would say had far better player personnel than the Knicks. That is factorial.***

I think that’s part of the “smoke and mirrors”. They are tied in the loss column with the Raptors, Celtics, Heat, Bulls, Pacers, and Hornets. Some of these teams were projected to be first in the conference going into the season, some were projected to be last. The record tells very little about this team because it is such a goofy year. The Raptors won 58 games last year, and will probably win 58 games next year. The Knicks (and Bulls and Hornets) are, most likely, benefiting from playing in a weak conference during a covid impacted season, neither of which is sustainable going forward (or at least neither of which are in their control). That said, Thibs is clearly doing the job that he was brought in to do which is win games with the roster he is given. You guys may not be happy with him, but Rose and Dolan certainly are, and he works for them, not us.

Can you point me to that actual stat? While there are a number of ways to calculate this, I am getting a different answer.

I stole it from the Tjarks article that was passed around here recently.

I like the job Thibs is doing, mainly because they’re playing a level of defense that we haven’t seen in years, which is so refreshing.

But if I was going to assign responsibility for their current surprising record, I’d go 30% Thibs and 70% Randle. I mean, how many games are we winning without Randle’s phenomenal 3 point shooting and overall superb play? You can play all the defense you want, but if you can’t score, you’re losing a lot of 100-90 games.

Hubert: I stole it from the Tjarks article that was passed around here recently.

Yes, I passed it around here two days ago. This is the link. Doubters, read it and realize why IQ should be a starter.

To me, its clear that they’re playing Frank now because he’s been put on the trade block and want to showcase his skills.

He certainly could be on the block, but I think he’s playing because Payton got hurt and they needed another guard.

Do you think it’s a coincidence that he only started playing when Payton got hurt and we needed another guard? The only thing hinting at a showcase is that he’s playing over Rivers. But Rivers could be on the block.

Deeefense: Possible, but do you think it’s a coincidence that he only started playing when Payton got hurt and we needed another guard? The only thing hinting at that is that he’s playing over Rivers.But Rivers could be on the block.

I think Rivers and Frank are on the block according to the rumors that were circulated around the rumor mills around a week ago. And I see Payton is conveniently “hurt” at the same time that Rose came in to replace him and that rumors about Austin Rivers and Frank being traded were circulating….

I’m not going to rebut a bunch of horse shit.

Every time you get a bug up your ass, you take something someone said, twist it into a completely different take, add some bullshit that they never said, and induce them into blowing up a thread explaining the difference between what they actually said and what you’re pretending they said.

Sorry, bud, you’re not gonna djphan me today. (no offense, dj.)

Before the season started the Knicks were supposed to be the worst team in the East and Randle should be traded cause he sucks. They have played way beyond anybody’s expectation and now it’s who cares they are just .500 its nothing to celebrate or brag about. Really man some of you honestly don’t give a shit about rooting for the Knicks or enjoying watching them play. To each his own I guess.

Deefense, that is true about Noel turning down that contract but another way to look at it is he might be willing to take a decent multi year deal bc he turned down that bigger one a few years ago and got burned by it and since then he’s only been able to get one year deals for small money.

Like if you turned down a job that paid 100K cause you thought you could get a better one and then the economy went bad and you had to freelance for a few years you’d probably be happy when an offer for 70K was given to you after that experience.

And sure he might be mitch’s back up but he can still have a big role and even start sometimes.

To shift the thread topic a bit, did anyone else find yesterday’s game intensely aggravating and nauseating — both in terms of the level of play and the wildly oscillating score? It felt like we were watching the absolute worst of certain players, and then the best — Rose repeatedly losing the ball on careless ‘cute’ plays, but getting 4 steals and 11 assists; RJ (dog) repeatedly driving on Miles Turner (fence) with the end result known to everyone but RJ, then with dagger threes and key passes (after clearly being allergic to passing earlier); Thibs with the Rose/IQ minutes thing, but the team won.

It was the first game in a while where I repeatedly wanted to throw my shoe at the screen. We’ve seen all these things before, but it just seemed exaggerated. It was exhausting.

I was on the optimistic end before the season thinking Thibs could get this team to maybe win 30 games but most likely win in the late 20’s. That could still be the case, the Knicks opponent winning% wise have the 2nd hardest schedule in the 2nd half although in terms of travel and amount of games played it’s I believe the 2nd or 3rd easiest schedule wise. But they have played so far way beyond my wildest expectations and for me has been great and fun to watch.

The fact the Knicks are winning because of Randle, RJ, Mitch when he plays and IQ making an impact absolutely nobody here expected makes it even better. Noel is also a guy who has contributed and can certainly have a spot on the team in the future. Those 5 guys I mentioned are all in the Top 7 in minutes played along with Payton and Bullock who aren’t exactly old men. Seriously all this merc bullshit nonsense and Thibs only winning with veterans who are hurting the future of this franchise has grown tiresome.

E, all merc’d out: I for one am very excited that the Knicks are going to be paying something like $50 million to Derrick Rose for the 2022-24 seasons.

If the Knicks do that I will gladly board the “Thibs is a moron” train. Of course, there’s absolutely no evidence that this is going to happen.

E, all merc’d out: How can you possibly rebut this piece of basketball genius given that 34 games into a freakish season with few or no fans and players left and right sitting games out because of pandemic virus, the Knicks have a .500 (!!!!!!!) record?

Right, the Knicks haven’t had to deal with a single injury to a key rotation player. Sure.

E, all merc’d out: The Knicks are going to be paying Derrick Rose and Julius Randle $45 million or so of their 2022-23 salary cap.

Possibly, but if Randle gets $38 mill and Rose gets $7 mill that’s not a cataclysmic outcome by any objective standard.

E, all merc’d out: This is unsustainable and heading nowhere good. That will have to wait to become apparent, but eventually it will indeed become apparent. The good things Thibs does are inevitably front-loaded, the bad things inevitably take awhile to show.

Possible. Time will tell. I haven’t discounted that possibility. Still, this is a different argument than whether Thibs is doing a good coaching job or not, an argument that you are losing, terribly.

Now we’re gonna sit here and talk about preseason expectations as if they matter.

Z-man: Still, this is a different argument than whether Thibs is doing a good coaching job or not, an argument that you are losing, terribly.

It’s the exact same argument, because a coach’s job includes preparing the team for the medium and long term future. If what Thibodeau is doing is unsustainable and heading nowhere good — as you seem to admit is a possibility — it means he’s doing a shitty coaching job right now.

Nothing that happens will change your minds.

Thibodeau showing he knows which players to play and how much would change my mind tomorrow.

This is hilarious, now apparently if Thibs was actually a good coach the Knicks would have a better record cause apparently Thibs is holding back this roster of All-Stars. BTW those teams under Hornacek were lucky to have winning records because they were being outscored on the season up to that point, the current Knicks actually have a positive point differential.

Question for the anti-Thibs crowd: if we were 10-24 what would you be saying about him? That hiring him was a mistake? Or that he’s doing a good job getting us a high lottery pick?

Just wondering…..

d-mar:
Question for the anti-Thibs crowd: if we were 10-24 what would you be saying about him? That hiring him was a mistake? Or that he’s doing a good job getting us a high lottery pick?

Just wondering…..

My guess is they’d argue he stumbled into a lotto pick for the wrong reasons aka Knicksian result. And then the critique would be about how a losing record doesn’t guarantee us a top 3 pick anyways so we’ll end up with the 8th pick again getting the next Knox/Ntilikina/Toppin type player while the next Mitchell/Bridges/Gilgeous-Alexander is taken by another, smarter FO.

Who is the anti-Thibs crowd? I was one of the biggest supporters of his hiring and spent the whole summer saying he was a great coach.

y’all some binary bitches, man.

I don’t think Thibs is the reason Randle is playing so well, I think his attachment to some veterans is not good for us in the long term, and I don’t like his minutes allocations. Must I love everything he does to avoid being anti-Thibs?

Thibs should definitely be blamed for playing the second best player on the team (IQ) less than starters minutes. It’s doubly stupid when remembering that our anemic offensive play is what’s holding us back as a team in general. There’s really no convincing argument that IQ shouldn’t be starting imo—he’s earned it as much as anybody on the team not named Randle. That DRose is getting the starting job over IQ is just transparent favoritism.

Does this mean Thibs is a bad coach? Hell no, he’s doing a great job, all things considered. But he does have a glaring issue with playing young guys minutes in close games, even when they objectively deserve them (E.g. IQ and, with his recent quality play, Frank) and he clearly plays favorites.

Max:
I don’t dig his PT choices regarding IQ vs. Rose (and IQ vs. Payton before) or his use of Toppin on offense or other small details, but right now Thibs is one of the top candidates for the COTY and for good reasons.

The FO made his intents clear by choosing Thibs, once that’s done there’s no room for tanking, pure devolopment or don’t play to win, they want to Install a “culture” and win as much as they can.

There are reasons to be worried and the criticisms are legitimate, I am the first to make them, but the basic philosophy is firm, like it or not, litigating it over and over now makes no sense, that ship has sailed months ago.

Would I start IQ over Rose or Payton? Yes. Would I like to play more small ball with Julius at the five and Obi at the four against selected opponents lineups? Yes. Would I play Frank instead of Bullock? Yes.

But at the end of the day I’m generally happy to play meaningful games in march and hear/read/watch all the Knicks haters in the media eat crows, we’ve been an easy punchline for too long…

Well said.

I also think that building team chemistry falls squarely on the coach’s shoulders. Thibs failed at that in Minny, which is doubly egregious because he was also the GM. I think he’s done very well in building chemistry here so far. The only two incidents of grousing I can recall are with Mitch’s cryptic tweet and Rivers recent lamenting of his future. So for now, it’s hard to criticize how he’s handling role and minutes when the players seem to understand it.

I’m with those who would like to see IQ, Obi and Frank more. But it’s not that big of a deal for me. I’ve really enjoyed watching the team, even in losses, because everyone plays hard and is ready when his number is called. I like that Rivers has dropped below IQ and Frank on the depth chart. And I like that Obi is being carefully managed and agree with Thibs that playing him any more would be counterproductive because he’s just not ready for a bigger role. Frank is the one guy who I think should have a bigger role and have an issue with him being buried. But even he was ready when his number was called.

I don’t even care that much about Payton or Rose starting over IQ, and think that more is made out of that than it should be, but sure, that’s a legitimate gripe based on stats. It can be argued that rookies tolerate playing less more than vets, so it’s better for team chemistry. It can also be argued that IQ does lots of rookie stuff out there that would be exposed in a larger role, and that Thibs is kind of protecting him. It is also possible that Thibs wants to keep the improvement fire lit under IQ by not giving him too much too soon. Finally, as I said, IQ was using the massage gun on his calf, he might be nursing a minor injury, and Maybe Thibs is worried that if he gives IQ and his frail 190 lb self too many minutes he will break down and become injury-prone like Frank and KP did. So while it’s not what I would prefer, I’m willing to defer to his judgment.

Thibs overall is doing a fine job. Phenomenal or coach of the year is a bit much. I predicted 32 wins Thibs is doing a bit better than that, but the Knicks have been one of the luckiest teams in regards to Covid and injuries.

I do think Thibs deserves real credit when it comes to most of the defensive improvement but our offense is a real problem and Thibs does not seem to be making any real effort to fix it.

The fact that Thibs keeps the starting lineup the same, even with injuries he just replaces the injured party with the most similar player, as if to shake things up the least despite the fact that our offense isn’t working.

Bullock, Payton, Rose, Burks, and Gibson are often unproductive and yet their minutes are carved in stone. This is not nitpicking it is a real problem. We are winning half the time right now despite our offense and largely unproductive starting unit but I have a hard time believing the good times will continue unless we make some real changes.

Also, on top of everything else I watch games because it’s fun and watching Rose, Bullock, Payton, Gibson, and Burks all get more minutes than more productive and entertaining players like IQ and Frank is not fun. It is also not fun to barely be able to see our high lottery pick, the most “NBA ready rookie in his draft class” not be able to get consistent minutes or have any opportunities on the offense.

I have a sense that we have played a lot of depleted teams. But that might be wrong or not materially an advantage relative to the rest of the league.

We have had injuries but not to Randle. Noel only missed a little time and everyone else other than Mitch isn’t really material.

That’s a story anyway.

I think that only swings a couple wins into the loss column but 15-19 would feel a lot different.

Owen:
I have a sense thatwe have played a lot of depleted teams. But that might be wrong or not materially an advantage relative to the rest of the league.

We have had injuries but not to Randle. Noel only missed a little time and everyone else other than Mitch isn’t really material.

That’s a story anyway.

I think that only swings a couple wins into the loss column but 15-19 would feel a lot different.

This is fair, but it applies to other teams as well. I agree that it’s possible that our record is a bit inflated by good fortune, but even at 15-19 we’d be exceeding most expectations.

What’s curious to me is that folks are saying that IQ is better than Payton and we’d be better if we started him. Are people really suggesting that this team would have a better record if Thibs played IQ more? That we are actually better than a .500 team and Thibs’ bad decisions are holding us back?

Before season started Thibs would burn down our players from overplaying.
Now we are lucky to be extremely healthy!
Make up your minds!
;-P

They lucked ass backward into Quickley

Of all the things you can say about the Quickley pick (and I’ve said many of them myself), this is simply not one of them. In fact it’s pretty much the opposite of the truth. These guys specifically targeted Quickley to such an insane degree they weren’t willing to take the (low IMO) risk that he wouldn’t be there 8 picks later. I viewed this as a major process failure back when I was a lot lower on Quickley than I am now.

Are people really suggesting that this team would have a better record if Thibs played IQ more? That we are actually better than a .500 team and Thibs’ bad decisions are holding us back?

I think it’s a bit more complicated than this. It’s definitely fair, and probably accurate, to come to the conclusion that Thibs has been a net positive for our win total. That’s different than saying every decision he’s making is optimal though.

At this point I think the arguments for Quickley not getting starter’s minutes (I don’t really care if he literally starts or not) are laughably weak. The numbers say it would lead to more wins and he’s obviously more important to our future than the guys taking minutes from him (Rose and Payton). You can always adjust things if he struggles for a prolonged period of time, but I don’t see anything about him from a playing style or personality standpoint that leads me to believe he should be an exception to the general idea that “your best players should play the most.”

I think Thibs has an irrational soft spot for Rose specifically, and more generally is hesitant to trust inexperienced players. I am not saying this has cost us wins because that would require comparing him to a theoretical different coach, and it’s impossible to say if another coach who didn’t have these issues would have us playing defense this well, or wouldn’t have issues of their own.

Offense is sexy, impressive and easier to quantify and notice in a game.
Defense is more of a chore that is not so visible on the boxscore, don’t pay you money and demands a lot of physical/mind effort.
Since Thibs uses his D as the basis of team’s success i decided to trust his rotations even tho i don’t agree with them 100%.
Our difference is that he’s responsible for team’s performance while I’m just a fan who has no serious inside knowledge of the team or consequence over a failed rotation.

thenoblefacehumper: At this point I think the arguments for Quickley not getting starter’s minutes (I don’t really care if he literally starts or not) are laughably weak. The numbers say it would lead to more wins and he’s obviously more important to our future than the guys taking minutes from him (Rose and Payton). You can always adjust things if he struggles for a prolonged period of time, but I don’t see anything about him from a playing style or personality standpoint that leads me to believe he should be an exception to the general idea that “your best players should play the most.”

This is a legitimate point of contention. But I can think of lots of good reasons to not play IQ more minutes if the goal is to win as many games as possible. I think we all agree that defensive metrics are hard to trust, and that rookies tend to be bad defenders. I know that when I key in on IQ I see lots of defensive issues, and that’s against second unit guys. Even so, I’d like to see him play a consistent 20 minutes a game, but I don’t get too worked up about it.

The thing is, Thibs is not a tinkerer for the most part. He settles on a rotation and will expand or contract minutes based on his own reads. Whatever his reasons are for starting Payton or Rose and playing them more, I truly think it boils down to his feeling that he trusts those guys more to grind out more wins.

That said, I don’t believe that IQ is a durable NBA player yet, and feel strongly that if he got starter’s minutes on a consistent basis he would break down in short order. He’s physically not ready to chase starting-caliber veteran point guards around 7-footer screens for 30 mpg. I saw him self-treating a sore calf last night with a theragun when he was on the bench. Even if it’s not the reason why he is playing so little on some nights, it might be a blessing in disguise.

Yes, if IQ had played more than 18 minutes a game we might have won another game.

And it would likely have helped his development. Do I think he could handle 32 minutes as a rookie? Probably not. But he should be getting at least 24.

Does the six minute difference make that much of difference? I don’t really think so.

But getting him more minutes likely will help him develop faster. Seems like a no brainer.

Are people really suggesting that this team would have a better record if Thibs played IQ more?

Yes, because it would mean playing Payton less minutes. And that’s the reason why our offense has performed better with even a subpar replacement like Rose filling in there at PG.

i once had this friend that if you said the sky was blue – first word out of their mouth would be: No…

then would be some stream of reasoning as to why what was happening was really more aquamarine…

was fascinating to witness that repetitive type behavior…when i got bored – i would just say some weird shit to see how he’d react…

on a really good day i could get him to argue with himself…

geo: i once had this friend that if you said the sky was blue – first word out of their mouth would be: No…

Depends on what you mean by “was”. In this essay, I will argue…

Knick fan not in NJ: People keep writing that it’s helping us to play in a weak conference, but it’s actually much less true this season than other seasons.This season there are just as many games against non-conference teams as against conference teams. In normal seasons and probably also in the next full 82 game season, we will play more games in the conference than outside the conference.

I believe there’s 42 games against the Eastern Conference and only 30 games against the Western Conference. We play each Eastern team 3 times (14 non-Knick teams * 3 = 42) and each Western team 2 times (15 teams * 2 games = 30) for a total of 72 games.

The ratio is flatter than most years, but we still benefit from a weaker conference.

So I was correct that next season we will probably play a larger fraction of games against eastern conference opponents than this season; but not correct that the number games against each conference is the same this season.

For me its no so much how much IQ plays as it is who he plays with. Anyone saw that stat on the Tjarks article where the +/- numbers with IQ and Randle were laid out? He compliments our starting lineup so well.

looks like DSJr just had a good game against the kings (him and just about everyone else in the league) – 17 pts, 6 assts and no turnovers…

geo:
i do get it early bird, vigorous discourse is like a game or activity for a lot of folks…for whatever reason the only person i feel competitive towards is myself…

it almost sounds odd – but, i can’t imagine any gain towards “proving” myself more correct or “better” than some one else…maybe i don’t really get it…

You know, geo, I’ve had to learn that sometimes there’s more important things than being right. And it’s tough for me because the truth matters deeply to me and is a function of how I carry myself. Being married and living here in LA, I’ve had to learn to tamper some of my dogma, or at least learn to express my truths and believes without the whole “I’m right/you’re wrong” angle.

I know many of us have very specific methods on how they would build and manage an NBA team. And a .500 record – while far beyond our collective expectations – still allows for half-glass full vs empty viewpoints. What puzzles me, though, is that I see some here are holding their methods against our current management and coaching staff to the point that they’re too far entrenched in what the coach/management isn’t doing. This would be fine if the Knicks were doing their normal fuckery, but there’s just too much evidence that the organization has turned a hard corner towards competency and maybe even good decision making (good, not perfect) to ignore that while continue to pound the doom-n-gloom drum.

BTW: in regards to the debate about Randle’s improvement, that Undefeated article points to Kenny Payne being a root cause of it. I feel like in the whole “Thibs is a win-now coach” narrative, it’s not discussed enough the potential impact of his assistant coaches. Maybe… just maybe… Leon Rose & co have found the right team of assistants to balance Thibs’ style and negate enough of his liabilities…?

As much as I hate to admit watching The Last Dance (blame the wife, not me lol), I did learn quite a bit.

I wasn’t into sports in the 80s, so I didn’t know anything about Doug Collins when he coached the Bulls. The short of it is that he turned the Bulls around and got them from bad to good. But Jordan & Co couldn’t get past the Pistons in the playoffs and he was replaced – GM Krause had a liking for one of his assistant coaches who we all know, and wanted Collins to incorporate said assistant’s ideologies into his plans (such ideology involved a 3-sided polygon that would ease the team’s total dependency on Jordan). Collins refused, he got let go, and the legend of Chief Triangle was birthed.

My point? Thibs may or may not be our Phil Jackson in the long run, but he can be our Doug Collins – the guy who gets us from consistently bad to consistently good and then gets replaced when it’s clear the coach’s system is keeping the team from making that final leap to true championship contender.

side note: if anyone in new york city has been struggling to get a vaccine appt for themselves or their family, I just hit the jackpot and found a ton of appointments at Northwell:

https://northwellvaccine.force.com/s/?id=a1T4x000004LWKOEA4

I’m a charter member of Team Realist, and we obviously have quite a long way to go. The front office could very easily screw this up. But we’re in way better shape than we’ve been in a very, very long time, because we have:

1. A good young core in Quickley, Barrett, and Robinson
2. Surplus first round draft picks in two out of the next three drafts
3. No bad long-term contracts on the books
4. A current roster that is playing .500 ball

It’s been a real long time since we had a situation like this, where we’re not asset-starved and where the team we’re actually fielding is not the dregs of the league. I don’t have a ton of faith that the front office is going to remain patient, and I’m expecting the “we traded for Russell Westbrook” shoe to drop any day, but as of right now things look somewhat promising.

Hubert: I think most of us are fine Obi is glued to the bench. He’s playing terribly.

Some folks here think he should play more, either for developmental purposes, or because his advanced stats aren’t terrible for the minutes he’s playing. I think it’s just about the right amount.