Knicks Morning News (2019.06.01)

I really don’t see us trading pick number 3 for numbers 8 and 10. That sort of trade happens if it is a deep draft and the two teams differ markedly on the intrinsic value of someone expected to be available at number 3 or if the team with number 3 thinks it’s a terrible draft year. But from press statements, the Knicks clearly think they can get a good player with number three, and there is very little to suggest this is an exceptionally deep draft. I think the rumors that the Grizzles might not pick Morant at number two are more interesting. But, as I recall, Barrett refused to go to Memphis for a workout, so that makes them picking him slightly more unlikely

I am not sure what RJ will be but from what I’ve seen and read, especially here, is that he’s Carmelo Anthony – a high volume, I want the ball in my hands, scorer that is not a great defender. What do we get with 8 and 10?

I think about Durant and Kyrie playing with a young Melo and wonder if they need to play with 3 basketballs. I can’t see RJ being a good fit with KD & KI? On the other hand, totally ignoring free agency, RJ would blend well with the kids on the team but I can’t see him becoming a leader with that profile.

Am I missing something? Who here can explain to me how Barrett becomes a good fit. And does anyone worry that he’s so focused on NY? Is that because he’s an attention hound? Is he going to be addicted to fame and the bright lights of Broadway?

I don’t get the idea of trading back because this is going to be a win now team with Durant, so what’s the point of trading down when you could get a really good win now player for the #3 pick? I mean, if you could guarantee me that Clarke is there at #8, I guess it makes sense, but that seems far from a likely thing.

I agree.

I don’t get this “trade down” thinking at all.

1. If we attract top free agents we can probably get a much better “win now” player as part of a deal using the #3 pick than the #8 and #10. Teams are looking for star players to build around. They aren’t looking for very good role players at #8 or #10. A lot of teams probably love Barrett as a potential star.

Now assume we don’t get top free agents.

2. The whole point of tanking was to try to get a star player to team up with KP. Instead, we are now trying to use the extra cap space to replace him. But our primary objective is still to find #1 and #2 star players. If we don’t get stars in free agency and have the #8 and #10 picks, we “may” add 1 or 2 very good players, but we’d are putting ourselves in the position I’ve been warning about. As you start drafting pretty good players (but not stars), your team slowly gets better and your chances of ever getting those stars via draft diminishes as the team improves and you drop down in each successive lottery.

It’s a star league and we don’t have a single one. We need stars.

If everyone is totally convinced that Barrett can’t become a #1 or #2 option on a championship caliber team some day, if anything, we should be trying to trade UP to get Ja Morant.

RJ Barrett will be fine as an offensive player. The question is really will he be a better defender in the NBA than he was in college, and that’s where coaching comes into play. If he’s a Knick and we land Durant/Irving, his main responsibility will be to shoot open 3s, run out in transition, and play good defense. When those two come off the court he’ll have a chance to run the show, but otherwise I think he’ll use his athletic gifts and be more of a gap shooting wing on defense who switches and communicates well enough. Or at least that’s how coaching should dictate he be used. Barrett isn’t a Knox level athlete with poor lateral motion; he’s a plus athlete and I think that will show on the next level more than anything.

Also, the Knicks are not trading down from #3, and they won’t be trading RJ Barrett away for Anthony Davis because LAC and TOR can offer better deals. We’re “stuck” with him, and it’s a beautiful thing. You’ll all come around some day.

I don’t get the idea of trading back because this is going to be a win now team with Durant, so what’s the point of trading down when you could get a really good win now player for the #3 pick?

One, I don’t think we should draft assuming that Durant is coming here. Two, I don’t think Barrett is all that special. Maybe he’ll be good! Some teensy tiny red flags though. Like, he’s a very poor person’s Ben Simmons and that’s not all that great to have. With the seventh pick that’d be fine! At three he’s not giving you a fuck ton of value add.

The FO has given us indications of every possible move which probably means they’re keeping their options open. We’ll likely draft Barrett, then maybe trade down if someone we like is still available at wherever later. That’d be the best way to handle a draft day trade and Perry seems savvy enough to know that.

Question: Would you offer the #3 and Dallas’ unprotected #1 to move up to #2? Would Memphis accept that offer?

If you watch analytical videos, you’d see that Barrett is not like Ben Simmons at all. He’s much smaller, not nearly as good of a passer or ball-handler with his off-hand, and has much better shooting mechanics. Ben Simmons’ shot is totally broken, and unless he fixes that, his upside will have a hard cap. In terms of shooting, Barrett just needs to work on balance and selection. But Barrett’s lack of a right hand and explosion are equally troubling. He is nowhere near as explosive as a young Dwyane Wade was, which makes that comparison (only a few have made it) foolish.

I’m ok with Barrett as a pick if the scouts like what they see, but it is very unlikely that he becomes a superstar and there is a lower floor than you want at #3. I would do whatever it takes (within reason) to move up to #2.

I don’t have a strong opinion on any of these prospects because so much of it is about what he’s going to be able to do in 4-5 years. All I can do is look at where is his now, his work ethic, basketball IQ, and athleticism. But I don’t know the trajectory of each player going forward.

All that said, if everyone is convinced that Ja Morant is the way better prospect than Barrett and way more likely to reach star status, then I’d give up both Dallas picks to get him. The most likely scenario for those Dallas picks is that they yield 1 very good role player or are used as part of a deal to land a star player. So if we can do the latter now, I think you have to go for it. Our focus should be on landing star players.

The question is how much more likely is it that Ja Morant is going to be than Barrett and by how much?

I love what I saw of Ja Morant and love the idea of finally getting a PG I like, but I don’t think it’s a screaming lock that he’s going to be the better player long term.

Did anyone watch the new Deadwood movie? Is it good? I hope to watch it this weekend.

It’d be a tough call to give up picks to get Morant. On the one hand, I love the idea of the possibility of actually having a great point guard here for the first time in decades. On the other, I think we all agree that Barrett’s peak value might be now, and packaging him with some of our other youngsters (including Knox, who is also overvalued by the league) might get us a pretty good haul.

Lots of moving parts, I hope our management team is up for a very challenging summer!

I’m ok with moving up in the draft if the price is not too steep. But I am opposed to trading down to eight and ten. If we traded down to Something like four because we thought Cilver was just as good as Barrett, I could see that being reasonable, even though I have no idea how good those two players actually are.

Lots of rumours on twitter that Chicago seems set to take Cody White at 7 which I don’t mind for them. Dunn clearly isn’t working out.

The only caveat is that Phoenix could pip them at 6 for White.

Fwiw R.J. has better advanced stats as a college freshman than Melo. R.J. is simply a much better passer than Melo and that was always the criticism. So if R.J. is a better passing version of Melo as an offensive player sign me up. That’s a great offensive player.

Side note. I actually like Kevin Porter jr. Looks like a solid scorer. I’m probably missing something though.

Cavs are pushing hard to get #3, offering #5, #26 and Sexton.

@9
I watched the Deadwood movie last night, and it was terrific. Not quite as good as the series at its peak (remember that it is my all-time favorite TV series), but still very good. All the returning characters had moments to shine. A couple of big events were kind of predictable, but the series’s mixture of violence, death, humor, and moments of kindness are all weaved in as I’d hoped. A nice and fitting end to the series.

Just like the Twin Peaks return last year, the revival did not shy away from the aging of all the characters/actors, it embraced it.

After it ended, I turned to my wife and said (in reference to Game of Thrones), “Now, THAT’S how you end a series!”

@15
Wow. Interesting.

What’s the source on that?

That is actually not a bad offer, although I am not sure Sexton is worth much, and he would take up cap space. I’d rather have another pick instead of Sexton.

@18
Yeah, they’d have to take back DSJ. If the Cavs are willing and able to take some salary back, something could work. The Knicks could even press for a couple of second rounders to be thrown in. I’d read that the Cavs really covet Barrett.

I saw that Sexton shot 40% from three last year, but also only averaged 3 assists per game. Selfish?

If we don’t get stars in free agency and have the #8 and #10 picks, we “may” add 1 or 2 very good players, but we’d are putting ourselves in the position I’ve been warning about. As you start drafting pretty good players (but not stars), your team slowly gets better and your chances of ever getting those stars via draft diminishes as the team improves and you drop down in each successive lottery.

But the position you’re warning about is straight nonsense. Look at the 2017 Draft by WS, VORP, etc.

WS in descending order by slot: 3, 22, 19, 14, 13, 27, 51, 7, 42, 30, 12, 23, 5, 38, 6

VORP: 13, 12, 19, 14, 3, 2, 38, 29, 42, 30, 23, 51, 6, 5, 27

Look at the other recent drafts. Simmons is #1 by a wide margin in 2016, but ahead of Siakam (27), Brogdon (36), Sabonis (11), Poeltl (9), Murray (7) and so on.

You mean to tell me that if you draft good players and start to see improvement, you’ll be unable to find good players because of a diminishing draft slot? I’d agree if we didn’t have mountains of evidence showing that NBA teams couldn’t identify a superstar prospect in the draft if their jobs depended on it. The #1 pick is obviously more valuable than the #30, but smart drafting at any point in the first round is better than the dumb luck associated with the top lottery picks, especially when there’s no longer a path to a top-3 pick via tanking.

Currently, the best route to a championship seems to be: draft good, solid, safe players at any point in the draft and stockpile assets and/or cap space to make the big move when the time is right.

Since they drafted the greatest foreign big in the history of the game in 2007, they’ve picked 17, 9, 13, 5, 8, 20, 20, 9, 27 and 23. Doesn’t seem to have hurt them to only have one high lottery pick in the last 10 drafts.

I really dislike Sexton as a prospect so I would probably say no to that offer. He shot 40% on 3s but shot poorly from everywhere else, and he literally does not pass or get to the line, which are two major issues if he’s ever going to be a starting Point Guard. I think I’d rather look elsewhere for trades or just keep the pick

I really dislike Sexton as a prospect so I would probably say no to that offer. He shot 40% on 3s but shot poorly from everywhere else,

for the year, but the progression looks a lot different. he shot over 50pct from 2 after the break vs 41pct before. he also seemed to learn something about shot selection (or started trusting his 3) with only ~12pct of his fga from 3 for his first three months vs 35pct for his last three. hard to say what’s most informative for a little guppy. his ts% after the break rocketed to .59 and it wasn’t rly better 3pt shooting, it was shot selection and 2pt shooting. still a big w what kind of 3 pt shooter he’ll be over time.

That’s a great trade for us from Cleveland, even with Sexton, so long as you make the trade if and only if Culver is available at five. Clarke, I say 50/50. I hate Sexton, but 5 and 28 is great value for the #3 if you think Culver is approximately equal to Barrett. We could probably ask for a second rounder or Cedi instead of Sexton though–soinds like they really want RJ

That’s a great trade for us from Cleveland, even with Sexton, so long as you make the trade if and only if Culver is available at five. Clarke, I say 50/50. I hate Sexton, but 5 and 28 is great value for the #3 if you think Culver is approximately equal to Barrett. We could probably ask for a second rounder or Cedi instead of Sexton though–sounds like they really want RJ

@22

That’s very interesting, I didn’t pay much attention to his progression.

The passing numbers and the free throws are still very worrying, but he is a very young rookie guard, a lot can happen. I’m starting to warm up a bit more to the idea of getting Culver plus the other assets, but it’s definitely an idea that makes more sense if we aren’t getting any top free agents and are just rolling with the rebuild.

@23
You can say that again!
🙂

Yeah, I read that Sexton improved a lot as the season went by, but his assist numbers remained pretty low. Then there’s still the issue of the Knicks possibly signing a Kyrie or Kemba. What do you then do with Sexton and DSJ?

Sexton is interesting, I guess. Did the cavs play him a lot at the 2? it looks like they were using Knight at the end of the season and george hill for a dozen games at the beginning. could that be why? I don’t know enough about the guys avail at 26 to say if it makes sense. and, if we are likely to draft a guard, the last thing we need is another guard on the roster.

the stories about memphis not being 100pct on morant don’t seem too surprising, and i’d be surprised if the minor knee procedure was really the cause. rj was a very big name prospect for years and for the next month will be starting in a nonstop instagram movie about a ripped and rangy future slam dunk champion who can do everything. it’s not hard to imagine the tides shifting before june 20.

I’d take Sexton only because the Knicks need young bodies at PG and Sexton (while being terrible himself) is years away from his ceiling, playing for a terrible team. If you can turn the 3 into the 5 and pick up more lotto tickets (Sexton, #27, future seconds), you’re doing well.

Trier and DSJ are SGs, Mudiay has no future on this team and Ntilikina isn’t a playable G-Leaguer right now, much less a starting NBA PG. Need more PGs.

ClashFan @9 Thanks. I’m looking forward to watching it. The series was definitely in my top 10.

This is why it was a good thing to get the #3 pick— Barrett’s perceived value is high. It’s not surprising that there are teams sniffing around for that #3 pick.

Yey, let’s get another PG lottery bust. We only have 3 of them so far!

@32

Well, there is some actual production to Sexton. He shot a lot better than De’Aaron Fox and DSJ in their respective rookie years, much better than Mudiay also. Fox also had poor assist numbers on his rookie season and he showed a lot of improvement this year.

Not saying I like him as a prospect, but I can see some reasons to be optimistic about him. Plus, likes Jowles said, it’s one more “lottery ticket” in the sense that the chance he’ll eventually be a good player is not that much smaller than the chances of Barrett being one.

26 and sexton aren’t really enough in my eyes…. 26 in this draft is esp bad… sexton is a subpar prospect also so it’s worth holding firm on a future first rd pick from them…

that being said… i do have culver ahead of barrett…. but the pick and sexton are very likely to wind up being negative value….

This Champions League final is a total bore

If the Knicks just do stay put and draft Barrett, and then the KD/KI fantasy doesn’t happen, they could just make RJ the #1 option and do a pump-and-dump with him. Let him shoot and shoot and shoot, he’ll rack up at least one 50 point game sooner or later. Devin Booker the shit out of him then flip him for something.

Yea we need to stay put at 3 and let the chips fall where they may. If Barrett is the pick he’s a good player..good piece I’m sure plenty of teams would love to have. Pick him, survey the landscape before and after free agency and move him if you need to. I know this much, we will need a good shooter in addition to KD if he signs because a DSJ/Barrett backcourt would kill spacing. I’ve seen a couple of rumors of trading for Beal- I don’t know if he’s worth the 3rd pick. But if he’s available, I’d be happy to pair him with KD. Perhaps even happier than pairing KD with Kyrie. I can totally see KD & Beal plus Middleton with a Knox trade following

Bleacher Report has a mock that came out today with Clarke dropping to the Spurs at 19. The funny part is that totally will happen!

I would be very hesitant to move up, trading one of the Dallas picks, to draft Morant. RJ may end up being better than Morant. We just do not know. Look how the Fultz situation turned out. It was widely believed Fultz was the best player and many thought it was foolish for the Celtics to trade away the #1 pick, but Tatum ended up being a far better player.

I would be very hesitant to move up, trading one of the Dallas picks, to draft Morant. RJ may end up being better than Morant.

There is only one slot to move up for…. the #1 slot. MR + #3 pick for #1…..

Should Kyrie and Kemba sign elsewhere and KD still signs with Knicks, do you call Houston and say Capella is the price to dump Chris Paul’s horrid contract? Knox + Frank +DSJr would match salaries….

If D’Antoni’s agent is correct in what he says, it’s really a cheapskate offer by Houston for a contract renewal.

Well, the knee surgery, minor though it is, is concerning. Probably enough to not trade up unless it’s for Frank or DSJ or something like that.

And I’d probably go for that CLE offer. I like Sexton better than some here, he’s got a nice edge to his game and is a high IQ kid. I could see him being a LOT better than DSJ.

There’s a rumor that’s existed for a long time that Fultz injured his shoulder in some kind of off-road cycling accident. Given how rare his injury is in basketball players, I’m inclined toward a conspiracy theory on the matter. If the injury is all a ruse, he has the worst case of the basketball yips I’ve seen at the NBA level and it would be impossible to predict something like that. I don’t know if Fultz was ever going to be a superstar, but the circumstances of his bust-out are as unusual as they come.

That Cleveland trade is not real. It was suggested in a Bleacher Report article, and no beat writer for either team has said anything of the sort. We’re gonna draft RJ Barrett and hopefully he’ll sign at least 2nd and 3rd contract with the Knicks because he developed into the best wing in basketball.

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByLns-fAGKC/?igshid=qo65g9y1j81d

Here’s a picture of Jarrett Culver and LeBron James side by side. It’s either Culver’s combine height is wrong or LeBron was never 6’8”.

I don’t care what Culver’s height is. I generally think an inch or two here or there doesn’t make a huge difference. To the extent it does, you see it in the numbers or the defense. Otherwise, who cares. If Culver was 6’3″ that might be a different story, but 6’6″ or 6’8″ who cares.

We’re gonna draft RJ Barrett and hopefully he’ll sign at least his 2nd and 3rd contract with the Knicks because he developed into the best wing in basketball.

whoa, holy shit – it’s like I stumbled in to some bizarro knickerblogger site…

It was widely believed Fultz was the best player

one of the few things I’ve gotten right here…he had some kind of “undisclosed”/not so very specific type of injury for a bunch of games at the end of his year at washington…plus, his team was only okay with him out on the court…physically he was nothing spectacular…

I don’t know, you would think health issues would be a pretty high priority item on the talent acquisition checklist…

i know player evaluation ain’t so simple, and, I’m not even sure exactly how much medical data is available for potential and current players…the sixers knew what they were getting with embiid and simmons, and it worked…

the nuggets knew what they were getting into with porter, that may work…shoot, toronto made it work with whatever kawhi really has going on…

health stuff would be a tough one to put aside for gm geo…I would definitely need someone to convince me otherwise…

Bruno @33, Sexton’s advanced metics, at least the catch all ones, are similar to Frank’s. I don’t think it’s the one filter to look at a player through, and I haven’t seen Sexton play a whole game, so maybe you’re right.

ClashFan, I also thought the movie wasn’t as good as the series, and still great. The aging was so powerful, I wonder if in some cases they made the actors look even older.

When it was over I was stunned that almost two hours went by. I’m going to try and watch other things David Milch created.

@20

If you want to win a championship you need STAR players. I’m not talking about boxscore metric stars that are often ridiculously wrong. I’m taking about legitimate stars that can take over games on one or both sides of the court against the best teams and players.

When you are in our position, you have to try to land a star player. It’s stars first and then role players. If you start accumulating good role players you have defeated the very purpose of tanking. Productive role players are not that hard to find.

You already know my view. IMO, tanking is not the ideal path. It’s “sometimes” a necessary evil. It takes way too long and there’s too much luck involved in the draft. Ideally you want a good deal maker in charge that uses every tool in the toolbox (draft, trade, free agency) to build a contender. You want someone like Masai. But as long as we are where we are, we should be thinking in terms of adding a star and not trading down for productive role players.

Smdh

@51

ClashFan, I also thought the movie wasn’t as good as the series, and still great. The aging was so powerful, I wonder if in some cases they made the actors look even older.

When it was over I was stunned that almost two hours went by. I’m going to try and watch other things David Milch created.

I’m going to watch again this week as I probably missed a few gems in the dialogue. You can definitely tell how the plot was rushed, which of course is to be expected in a movie vs. a series. But I thought Milch did a great job in getting everyone involved and having moments to shine.

If only they could have gotten 6+ hours like GoT had, but it was probably impossible to get the large cast available for so much time. I’ve read that HBO imposed lots of limits on Milch for this.

Perhaps the ending of the movie was a tad too “happy,” but I thought it was pretty well done as a way to wrap up a series. The lack of resolution of the Hearst situation is a bit puzzling, though. If Milch weren’t declining due to Alzheimer’s, I’d suspect another movie might be possible.

So sad about the Alzheimer for such a nuance-enabled brain.

I liked where they left Hearst. From the moment the last event concerning him happened I knew Bullock would shoot one in the air, he’d done it before in similar situations, and they kept it going long enough to think he may decline this time. I don’t think they could have gone any other way since he’s based on a real person and we know he didn’t die there and then.

I’m not talking about boxscore metric stars that are often ridiculously wrong

I sincerely think sometimes that you choose to be uninformed. If you look at the top 20 players in the league according to BPM, which player do you think is “ridiculously wrong” in being there? And what players should be there instead of them in the stratrankings?

For reference the top 20 in BPM for this season: Harden, Giannis, Jokic, Davis, LeBron, Gobert, Towns, Westbrook, Irving, Vucevic, Curry, Lillard, George, Nurkic, Leonard, Horford, Griffin, Favors, Durant, Harrell.

Yes it overrates players like Favors and Harrell, and you’d probably have guys like Embiid (who missed the cut by like .1) or Simmons in their places on a top 20 list, but is that “often ridiculously wrong”?

I don’t know why I bother, but I don’t have much to do today.

When you are in our position, you have to try to land a star player. It’s stars first and then role players. If you start accumulating good role players you have defeated the very purpose of tanking. Productive role players are not that hard to find.

The really fun part of this is that it’s an argument that draft position is in fact more indicative of a star player than not. In direct response to a post listing draft positions for the league’s current stars showing exactly the opposite. In this example of Strat-itis, the post focuses on the follow-up argument – that FOs seem to do better drafting good solid players and hoping they develop into stars than they do shooting for ‘upside’ picks. He completely misses this point, claiming that it is instead an argument that we should acquire good role players after we get a star because they are readily available. He uses that non-sequitur to make his argument against ‘boxscore metric stars’. Tops off the implicit appeal to authority with a complaint about those authorities not knowing what they are doing.

So much to pick apart! My favorite bits are the overwhelming impatience from a poster who likes to moan about the Knicks’ impatience, the perennial assumption that good role players grow on trees, and belief that adding role players to a star is better than adding a star to a strong existing core. It’s not quite peak Strat as it features no tangents about ridiculous economic theories or horse racing, but every other element is there. It’s also quite short, a welcome novelty.

@55

I liked where they left Hearst. From the moment the last event concerning him happened I knew Bullock would shoot one in the air, he’d done it before in similar situations, and they kept it going long enough to think he may decline this time. I don’t think they could have gone any other way since he’s based on a real person and we know he didn’t die there and then.

True, but I’m not talking about Hearst dying, but rather where he is literally at the end.

BTW, and I’m trying not to spoil too much here, there are at least two characters who die during the movie who did not die at Deadwood either, historically, nor in the year the film is set. Both historical persons lived quite a few more years each.

Draymond is a defensive savant

I know he doesn’t rebound like it, but the way he analyzes and plays on defense reminds me of Rodman. There is not a play that he can’t throw a monkey wrench in. It’s almost unbelievable that he is having those thoughts as these plays are happening

Yes, almost unbelievable..

It’s astounding how much information Draymond is processing within a split second out there.

If Cleveland are really interested in trading for Barrett, I’d much rather let them keep Sexton and get their pick next year. If we got their other first this year, too, that would give 6 first rounders in the next three drafts. Then I would gladly take Culver or Garland at 5.

The thing that worries me about trading back, though, is all the Reddish noise. I can’t deal with Reddish and Daniel Jones in the same year.

I know he’s a good basketball player and would obviously help the Knicks on the court but Kyrie is such a fucking weirdo:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/bw0dob/bostoncom_kyries_latest_ig_the_age_of_no_more/

Is it true that KD purchased a house in NY and selling his house in oakland.

Hoping htat the KD to knicks will happen.

Make it happen basketball gods.

I think Heavyweight Champion of the World Andy Ruiz showing up to the post-fight press conference after his huge upset win over Anthony Joshua in a Knicks jersey is a good omen for next season.

Also probably a sign of how little he expected to win but whatever

Hahaha. I figure it’s just another example of the Drake curse. Raptors are doomed.

Not yet!

Warriors are in big trouble.
Somewhere Kevin Durant is smiling….

If the Raptors manage to lose this game there’s no way they’re winning the series

Our old friend Kevin McElroy just asked on Twitter which Knicks might get time on GSW. I said Robinson, Dotson and Trier. Maybe DSJ. ???

Injuries becoming a factor for GSW

Draymond and Boogie came up big tonight

Rest of this series probably gon’ suck.

What’s the narrative if the Dubs win this without KD? Does that make him more likely to leave? More likely to come to NYK? That’s all I really care about.

Toronto let that one slip away. Warriors with another crazy 3rd quarter run.
Cousins had some really good plays and some really stupid plays.

Losing Thompson would be a huge blow to GSW.

Damn you, Drake.

That was a really exciting game. I think there might be a new verb coined. The Raptors got Warriored.

What’s the narrative if the Dubs win this without KD? Does that make him more likely to leave? More likely to come to NYK? That’s all I really care about.

If they win without him, that definitely helps the “KD to the Knicks” narrative. The only possible way he doesn’t go to the Knicks is if some crazy shit happens in this series, like the Warriors losing without him or the Warriors winning but only after he returns and leads them to the victory.

EDITED TO ADD: I guess I probably used the term “crazy shit” a bit too loosely there, as both of those scenarios are relatively realistic.

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