2019-20 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Pacers

The Knicks start their second half playoff push tonight against the Indiana Pacers!

The Knicks won their last matchup and almost beat them the time before that, so this could be a big win in their race to the #10 seed.

Let’s go? Knicks!

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147 thoughts to “2019-20 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Pacers”

  1. Love it when we get Wally on the broadcast, nobody else can say 10 stupid things in a 5 second segment. Efficiency is off the charts

  2. Is lovely Rebecca into anti-freeze?
    I mean that hair today.
    Gorgeous woman, imho, but that crazy hair was surprising

  3. Frank would be a better basketball player if he grew a ‘stache.

    so few truly understand the proper purpose and focus when watching knick games…or, maybe life in general…

    you grocer, you get it…

  4. WAtching Zion run through Carmelo for a fast break layup is pretty bittersweet…

    Zion is really really something. No surprise but he’s a wow.

  5. Lakers signing Markieff Morris after a buyout by the Pistons. For once, we got something right with the trade.

  6. watched some of the 1st half, knox looked pretty lost once again…

    we must be one of the worst teams in the league at using our g league team to develop our young guys…

    it just makes no sense to keep throwing him out there in NBA games…

  7. geo get’s it. For some folks a ‘stache is a multiplying power. Frank is part of those folks.

    I like that KB has extensive threads for speculation, but everybody has checked out on the season.

  8. And when Miller ran the Westchester Knicks, all his starters got NBA contracts. Dude’s solid, keep him.

  9. the trier situation is maybe the most baffling…I can only guess he refused to go to the g league…

    if that was true though, why wouldn’t they just cut/release him…doesn’t seem like he has much value with other teams…not sure what his minutes total is for the year, but, it’s got to be pretty low…

    maybe it’s time for chris robinson to go…I get that we may not have drafted so great the last few years, but, our young guys development doesn’t look so great…

  10. Grocer:
    And when Miller ran the Westchester Knicks, all his starters got NBA contracts.Dude’s solid, keep him.

    who are these 5 starters that Mike Miller turned into NBA players?

  11. I didn’t get to watch but the box score looks tankerrific. 30 minutes and 9 shots for our #1 option?

  12. I don’t watch the games but I do check the box scores. I mean why don’t they try some plays where Mitch shoots a corner 3 like THIS? Now is the time to work on these type of things. If he’s able to hit 3’s at a decent clip, that would open space for Randle drives. Plus if opposing center has to then closeout, it opens up THIS.

    I get that Miller is coaching for his next job on some other team but it just shows how dysfunctional an organization the Knicks are. Frank/DSJ/Knox should all be getting more minutes at this stage even when Payton returns. One of the more depressing things is that Ujiri would have made sure that Mitch’s potential is realized like Siakam, not to mention Frank (Delon Wright) and other young players.

  13. who are these 5 starters that Mike Miller turned into NBA players?

    I think people are conflating the past two seasons.

    2017-18 only had four of the five starters make the NBA, which is still very impressive…

    Trey Burke, Isiah Hicks, Nigel Hayes and Kyle Kornet all made the NBA from that Westchester Knicks team.

    Then Kadeem Allen made the NBA the next season (Chasson Randle made the NBA the previous season).

  14. The Knicks are a win now team, not a developing team. Yes, that’s incredibly fucking stupid but that’s what Dolan wants and he pays the bills. Different coach won’t change that.

  15. It would be a shame if KP gets hurt and we get robbed of seeing what these two guys can do together when they are peaking in 3-4 years.

    @bobbykaralla
    Kristaps Porzingis finished with 24 points, 10 boards, five assists, and five blocks. The only other two players with that stat line in a game this season are Anthony Davis and Andre Drummond, once each.

    @bobbykaralla
    Porzingis is only the second Maverick ever to finish with at least 20/10/5/5, per @bball_ref, joining Dirk, who did it once in 2006 and once in 2009.

    Per @EliasSports , this is the updated list of teammates in @NBA history to record 20+ points, 10+ rebounds and 5+ assists in consecutive games:

    Hakeem Olajuwon & Clyde Drexler, 1995
    LeBron James & Kevin Love, 2017
    *Luka Don?i? & Kristaps Porzingis, 2020

  16. Ha!!! I was about to write that Strat should be taking a victory lap soon and he of course beat me to it.

    Very nice game from him last night.

  17. How much of Kyle Kornet’s ascension do we really think is attributable to Mike Miller?

    Guys like Luke Kornet, Chasson Randle, Maurice N’Dour, and Ron Baker were all signed by the front office to play for the Knicks and were just assigned to Westchester due to roster limitations.

    Here is the total list of callups from Westchester:

    https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/New-York-Knicks/20/DLeague-Transactions/Callups/All

    Kadeem Allen is a nice one but I really think somewhere between 90-100% of the credit for that goes to him, not Miller.

    There are good arguments to make for Miller I don’t think this is one of them.

  18. Is Lonzo Ball more productive than last season? I think the consensus would be yes. But when you look at WS/48 and BPM there’s no difference. However, his RPM improved from Minus .32 to Plus 1.48.

    Lonzo’s 3FG% is 37% this season and his TS% is 51.5%. Why do I bring this up? Because many here were arguing that Frank could not a productive player at a 51.5 TS. I had argued he could if his TS were 52 to 53 so long as he were hitting 3’s at about 37% and defending at a very high level.

    I don’t want to start an argument about whether Frank will be able to get to 51.5 TS. Time will tell. My question rather is whether posters here (JK47, Noble, Bruno, Jowles, etc) think Frank could be a plus player at a 520 TS in light of Lonzo’s stats. Note Frank’s TS, ORPM and DRPM are very similar to Lonzo’s in his 21yo season.

  19. In the six games in February, small sample, KP has
    a TS% of .682
    50% from the floor
    41% from 3pt
    91% from the line
    29.1% usage

    Looks like someone’s knee is getting better.
    And like someone’s point guard has learned how to play with the big fella.

    Let’s see if it lasts…and if it does, I’ll be really happy for him and really pissed at the Knicks.

  20. I think it’s really easy to find consistency and plug in roles once you have a star in place like Dallas does. The Knicks should certainly try that with RJ even though he’s clearly not as good as Doncic. Right now, they have spinning Julius as their #1 guy which is just absurd because he’s a turnover machine. They need to give RJ the keys to this shitmobile and just let him try and do his thing.

  21. “Kristaps Porzingis finished with 24 points, 10 boards, five assists, and five blocks. The only other two players with that stat line in a game this season are Anthony Davis and Andre Drummond, once each.”

    On November 2nd, 2019, I am quite certain that somebody on Pistonsblogger wrote that it would be a shame if Andre Drummond, with his 20/20/6/5 line, got injured, and deprived fans of a decade of chips at the hands of the Drummond/Kennard dynamic duo.

  22. “There are good arguments to make for Miller I don’t think this is one of them.”

    Yes, I acknowledged that. I should have checked before posting it.

  23. I don’t want to start an argument about whether Frank will be able to get to 51.5 TS. Time will tell. My question rather is whether posters here (JK47, Noble, Bruno, Jowles, etc) think Frank could be a plus player at a 520 TS in light of Lonzo’s stats. Note Frank’s TS, ORPM and DRPM are very similar to Lonzo’s in his 21yo season.

    A few thoughts:

    1) I think Lonzo is a promising player because he’s shown multiple legitimate skills throughout his career and has improved, but I wouldn’t argue with anyone who says he’s still not yet productive overall.

    2) Lonzo brings you a 28.6 AST% and 9.9 TRB% with his .515 TS%, compared to 20.2% and 5.6% for Frank, so it’s not like giving Frank Lonzo’s TS% turns him into Lonzo.

    3) League average TS% this year is .562, so if you’re putting up .515 you damn well better be bringing it in multiple other ways. Lonzo is approaching that, Frank…well, you know the story.

    So no, I don’t think Frank with a .515 or so TS% is a productive player unless he makes improvements across the board. If I was convinced he was the all-world defender his fan club thinks he is that might be different, but I don’t, largely because the Knicks defense still sucks with him on floor (which is not his fault, but also wouldn’t be the case if the fan club was right).

  24. Yeah, I’m with tnfh on this one. I like Lonzo, admittedly more than I should probably, because he contributes in a lot of areas, he’s a real defender but he’s also a very good passer and above average rebounder. If he shoots 36% from 3 in 5 attempts per game and not much else, he’s still contributing to the game. The problem with Frank is just how anemic his whole production overall is, there’s no volume to it or sustainability. One day he’ll get 8 assists, then he’ll spend 5 games going for 1, 3 etc. How many minutes he plays obviously matters here, and it has been inconsistent for him on that end, but you barely remember he’s on the court sometimes. I don’t get that feeling with Lonzo.

    If you tell me Frank in two years will be a great switchable defender who has a .510 ts% but will keep his assist and rebounding numbers as they are, I’ll say that’s a borderline NBA player, a Matisse Thybulle kinda guy who can be the 8th or 9th man on a decent team. But he’s not even at that low mark yet.

  25. When the ball is being dribbled, Lonzo and Frank look like they play two different sports. Frank would be a mid-major off-ball SG if he were in the NCAA right now.

  26. The Hawks traded the Mavs Luka. The Knicks traded the Mavs Kristaps Porzingis and Tim Hardaway Jr. The Mavs won 34 games. The Hawks and Knicks have 33 wins…COMBINED.

    This is why Steve Mills got canned; but hey…this blog thinks Jury is still out on above two trades…

  27. Frank is not an NBA player; He should and will be playing in Europe soon. Knox cant play in neither league. Our best draft pick in decades is now playing in Texas. RJ is a mediocre talent that was maximized by hard work and growing up privileged in a basketball family. Leon Rose will not inherit a single player who is either now or has the talent to be a starter in contender. He doesn’t have obstacles like missing draft picks or a poor balanced roster with terrible contracts and by this organization’s standards, – this is considered a great situation.

  28. If KP goes a super-efficient 20-10-5-5 the rest of the way, there will be a lot of crow eaten. I will personally oil up Strat’s chariot for the victory lap.

  29. Oh yeah Porzingis is definitely the reason the Mavs have the most efficient offense of the modern era

  30. some of us are having a tough day, I see…let it out man, let it all out…

    I know, probably not the best thing to admit publicly – but, since I was a kid not much has so consistently brought me joy like coming back from the store and putting away groceries…

    broke two simple rules while grocery shopping: don’t go hungry, don’t go when you’re really high…

  31. KP has had these hot streaks before, usually at the beginning of the season, which is why he’s a tantalizing player. Problem is the hot streaks are followed by him playing like ass.

    This season he’s doing it backwards, he started out like ass and is having the hot streak in February. Maybe he sustains it this time, it’s not out of the question. But it’s also not out of the question that he just goes back to playing like ass.

  32. The KP cynic in me can’t help but notice his recent string of good games comes after a 3 week layoff, and his great game last night followed the all star break. The knock on him is that he can’t withstand the rigors of the season. He looks great in November because he’s rested and strong. If you give him January off to rest and build strength, it stands to reason he’ll look as good in February as he does in November.

    If he’s pulling this shit off in May, I’ll take my licks. My guess is he’ll wear down again.

  33. so jk, wilder at 231 and fury at 273…yeah, this may not make it out of the 3rd…

    I don’t know, I’m not sure fury can help but to dance and box…it would really surprise me to see wilder knocked out…

  34. Keep squinting, and focusing on the last six games instead of the previous 30 or so. Make up reasons that you trust these six instead of the rest.

    I’ll eat crow when he sustains this, not when I’m implicitly told to.

  35. Wilder at 231 is a little weird, I think his lean frame (he’s 6’7” and usually comes in around 220) is what allows him to carry his punching power late into fights. In theory 231 is a good weight for him but that’s what I’ll be watching: is he still throwing that right hand with a lot of heat late in the fight.

    273 is not a good weight for Fury and he’s kind of a wild dude who has not always stayed in shape between fights. I really wonder if his head is in the right place for this one.

  36. If you have a young KP on your team, how many other GMs in the NBA would not have given KP the max extension, – as soon as they were allowed to? Show a young player LOVE.

    If we gave ATL Frank, #9 (Knox) and two other 1st rounders for Luka and went all in on those two with him, KP, Mitch, signed Butler, kept shooters/players like Kornet and Vonleh…and were sitting near the top of the eastern conference today….someone would still say that KP in too injury prone and Butler is a headcase…etc…

  37. I keep saying that
    “KP is a special player” long before his last 6 games.
    Its not in the stats.
    Its in the eye.
    His game shows unique potential.
    Now if he gets lazy, mess with drugs and other anti-athletic habbits or get severely injured again that would be another story….

  38. Rename KB to KP as in KP Blog. Newsflash – he’s gone. Let’s not forget how he trolled the Knicks Management last year when he posted a video of him running sprints, in direct conflict with the coach’s public statement about his progress. And despite the video, and the the trade, he still never played a game last year. So what was the point of the video? Maybe they didn’t maximize the return in the trade, but there was so much risk for the Knicks, and he clearly wanted out. KP’s behavior and knee were eroding Knick’s leverage by the minute.

    So Adios, and we start over. I’m still not sold he doesn’t collapse the other knee….

  39. I loved Lonzo coming out of college-I probably would have drafted him first the season he came out. But he’s been a disappointing pro. His age 21 season (last year) he was very similar to Frank’s age 21 season (this year). They both sucked-Lonzo is a better rebounder and a somewhat better playmaker (he turns it over a bit more) and he’s finally shooting the 3 pretty well. I’m still optimistic Lonzo will be a productive pro. But we’re talking about a guard who shoots 55% from the FT line and can’t score anywhere else but at the rim so I’m not convinced that 3 point shot is for real either.

  40. harry giles looked ok against the clippers today. he’s an unrestricted free agent since the kings somewhat strangely (strangely if they were a normal team anyway) declined his team option. i don’t really have a take on giles but at 21 it seems like he should be added to the list of possible offseason value targets:

    melton
    wood
    giles

    anyone else? no mercenaries allowed.

  41. Frank eye vs box
    Despite his box scores lately are not very encouraging i watch him moving faster, shifting speeds, shooting with confidence, dribbling better, finding his sweet spots, driving decisively and Even making fancy moves seen for the very first time in his game so far.
    He’s not where he has to be yet to be a legit nba starter but i see him getting there sooner or later.

  42. There are now rumors that Guitar fucking Jimmy wants to buy SNY and also the Mets.

    Have I not suffered enough

  43. ‘There are now rumors that Guitar fucking Jimmy wants to buy SNY and also the Mets.’

    That is Dolan’s Razor at its sharpest.

    He would sell the Knicks and buy the Mets or destroy both at the same time?

  44. Hey, maybe Dolan’s attention would be diverted away from the Knicks and to the Mets. So the Knicks would be the new Rangers. That might be fine if you’re not a Mets fan but if you’re both, well, maybe it would be better to just spend your free time watching youtube cat videos.

  45. Apparently he just wants SNY.

    I think Dolan would have a harder time messing up a baseball team. There are so many more moving parts and so much less glitz.

  46. What’s SNY? And would Dolan actually be a worse Mets owner than the recent Mets ownership? I ask because I don’t follow baseball, but what little I have read about the Mets here suggests they have not been managed well.

  47. JK47, I’m so glad I was too slow to take your advice.

    Fury came in way overweight but ended up just using that mass in the clinches (also seemed to take the legion of boom approach to the officiating). Curious to see if you or any of the other boxing heads have any special insights as to what just went down.

    The corner men just imperiled their own job security, but they might have also just prevented some unnecessary carnage

  48. Wow, Fury just demolished Wilder.

    That was a super interesting fight in terms of tactics. Fury, not known as a hard puncher, came out aggressively and had Wilder on the back foot the entire fight. It was the complete opposite of his tactics in the first fight. Fury is really long, 6’9″ with an 85″ reach, and he’s very nimble on his feet for a guy his size, so the conventional wisdom is that he’s best off boxing from outside and using space to his advantage. But in this fight he did the opposite, he closed the distance and smothered Wilder, and it was a rout. Wilder had no answer for the incoming offense.

  49. Yeah, one of the more interesting tidbits was that Fury had called his shot for the second round. Part of me wonders if he said that with the goal of putting Deontay mentally on the defensive.

    Then again, I’d imagine that the success rate for that kind of psyops campaign against a heavyweight champ wouldn’t necessarily be all that high. Surely he had his own plan and wouldve stuck to it in any case?

  50. What’s SNY? And would Dolan actually be a worse Mets owner than the recent Mets ownership? I ask because I don’t follow baseball, but what little I have read about the Mets here suggests they have not been managed well.

    It is the Mets equivalent to MSG/YES.

  51. >Despite his box scores lately are not very encouraging i watch him moving faster, shifting speeds, shooting with confidence, dribbling better, finding his sweet spots, driving decisively and Even making fancy moves seen for the very first time in his game so far. He’s not where he has to be yet to be a legit nba starter but i see him getting there sooner or later.<

    100%

    He has unquestionably made several significant improvements this year over the previous two years. As the critics will point out, he was starting from such a low level on the offensive side he still has a ways to go. But there's clearly progress and he's still very young. All he has to do is get to neutral on offense to be a plus player. If he could finish off the rest of the games hovering around a 50% TS% and 33% 3p% I'd consider it a successful year for him.

    The bigger problem is where to play him. He's not a modern penetrating scoring PG.

    I have no problem with the Frank/Barrett backcourt where they both handle the ball and share play making with other similarly talented ball movers. In fact, that's my preference over the modern PG dominant offense where if you shut that guy down the whole offense collapses. The problem is that both Frank and RJ are bricklayers and the biggest problem the team has now is spacing. None of Frank, RJ, Mitch, Payton, DSJr, or Randle can shoot and most of the rest are just mediocre/OK.

    One of either Frank or RJ is going to have to break out as a shooter next year and we can worry about Mitch/Randle later.

  52. There was something a little bit fluky about Fury-Wilder: the punch that did most of the damage to Wilder in the third round was clearly an illegal punch, it landed on the back of Wilder’s head and likely perforated his eardrum. Fury didn’t intentionally hit behind the head, but that’s where the punch landed.

    Wilder had shown good durability in the past, but he never got back in the fight after that punch. With a busted eardrum you have no balance, no legs. It was looking like a very competitive and entertaining fight before that happened.

  53. Watching the games, the Knicks clearly miss Morris on offense. As noted above, the Knicks have very few shooters. I can see Frank getting better at shooting next year. I don’t know about Payton, RJ, DSJ or Randle though.

  54. I hate to be the bearer of bad news and I promise I’m not trolling: Frank Ntilikina really has not improved at all.

    His AST, TRB, and STL rates are almost exactly at his career average. His USG is a career low. His 3PT% is .307.

    The reason his TS% is a career high (of, um, .483) is because he’s shooting .443 from 16<3 range. His shots from everywhere else on the court have actually declined or stagnated. So if you're buying the idea that this is the New and Improved Frank, it depends entirely on him shooting 44% on the worst shots in the sport. Shots that he wouldn’t even be allowed to take on a good team. James Harden is taking an incredible .005% of his shots from that range this season, for reference.

    I’m seeing the same player I’ve seen all along for the most part. At best, any improvement he’s made haven’t been in the stratosphere of what’s necessary for him to be even a 12th man on a decent team.

    I think it’s 50/50 he’s on an NBA roster after next season and we’ll all feel silly for spending so much time on this, even the detractors.

    Once more: I will be delighted if I’m wrong.

  55. I’ll add that in the summer of 2021, Frank Ntilikina has an $18.5M cap hold so the question about his future will finally stop being purely theoretical. Until then, sure, play him as much as you want. I think there’s some opportunity cost to doing so, but it’s not even in the top 10 dumbest things we do in terms of opportunity cost so whatever.

  56. Yeah, that’s all true.

    Frank is defending well to my eye and making a little more of a positive impact than his box score numbers would suggest but there is no way he will be worth any kind of real money when his next contract is on the table. It’s hard to argue he is more than an end of the bench guy at best going forward.

  57. it’s funny, most folks think it’s the chin that’s the most vulnerable part of the head…nope, right behind the ear is where the off switch is located…

  58. I’ll add that in the summer of 2021, Frank Ntilikina has an $18.5M cap hold so the question about his future will finally stop being purely theoretical.

    I doubt it would get to his cap hold.

    Frank’s NBA career is on thin ice. If you like him, offer him a two year deal worth $8mm with a team option for the 3rd year. If that can’t get the job done, c’est la vie.

  59. >Once more: I will be delighted if I’m wrong.>

    Don’t worry, you are.

    If you can’t see that his handle is much improved, he can take the ball where he wants on the court better, is passing with his left hand better, and creating his own shot better, you can’t be watching games closely.

    It used to be an adventure just to see if could bring the ball up the court without getting stripped.

    He has a long way to go relative to a pure PG if that what he wants to be, but his skill level is way above where it was.

    Also, when it comes to shot locations, sample sizes are small. You don’t pick the one that’s luckily coming up better than expected and eliminate it without also looking at the ones that are unluckily coming up worse than expected and expected and normalizing then also. He’s shooting horribly from 3-10 and 10-16 feet compared to last year and will probably do better from there long term even if he declines from 16-3p. He’s also been steadily improving from FT line which is a very good sign because there’s probably less noise.

    We all know he has a long way to go to be “neutral” on offense, but he’s obviously better than he was.

  60. You get rid of the cap hold by immediately signing Frank (if you choose to keep him). Still think the best move is to let him return to France and, if he makes the necessary improvements, bring him back when he’s 25.

    I’d probably offer him $3 million for 2+team option, if you think he can eventually be a player. If he does improve you have 1 more year of control at low cost. I doubt we get good in that time span, so the extra year doesn’t mean much.

  61. He’s also been steadily improving from FT line which is a very good sign because there’s probably less noise.

    OK, well he has a whopping 46 free throw attempts this season in 1041 minutes because he averages 1.6 FTA per 36, so you know. Small sample size and all.

  62. I wouldn’t be too worried about Frank’s cap hold. He’s a smart kid. His biggest flaw is that he likes being a Knick. He’ll outgrow that and want to leave soon.

    He can see what every other player sees. He’ll eventually throw in the towel on NY and want to play with a good organization that will develop and use him properly. Do you think he can’t see what’s going on in Dallas? Even Hardaway Jr has turned his career around and found himself in a more appropriate role being used properly.

    You have to be nuts to want to play for these imbeciles in NY unless they are overpaying you or you have a personal reason for being in NY.

  63. >>OK, well he has a whopping 46 free throw attempts this season in 1041 minutes because he averages 1.6 FTA per 36, so you know. Small sample size and all.<<

    I don't think this FT rate is sustainable either, but it's probably less noisy than jump shots and you don't get to eliminate it because it's positive evidence of shooting improvement and you are trying your best to argue he's not getting better when he obviously is.

  64. Even when regressing Frank’s shooting from long 2pt range, he’s still having his best year shooting. So there may be some actual improvement there. Or it could be noise. We don’t know.

  65. you don’t get to eliminate it because it’s positive evidence of shooting improvement and you are trying your best to argue he’s not getting better when he obviously is.

    Yeah, okay, there’s some glacial shooting improvement. That’s typical improvement you’d see from just about any player of that age. What I see is a horrible offensive player getting verrry slightly less horrible. There’s nothing special or exciting about Frank’s development curve. It would be weird if he didn’t get at least a LITTLE better than he was as a 19-year old. It’s still not a lot to get excited about unless you really want to squint your eyes at it.

  66. Incredible coincidence that Frank has made all of these vast improvements and yet the overwhelming majority of them are only capable of being detected by the Very Enlightened Basketball Viewers. That’s very convenient for anyone who has been trying to say he’s anything other than back-of-bench fodder for years despite all tangible evidence to the contrary, but so it goes.

    His biggest flaw is that he likes being a Knick. He’ll outgrow that and want to leave soon.

    I’ll take it a step further. His biggest flaw is that he likes being an NBA player. He’ll outgrow that and want to leave the NBA soon.

    Seeing as how he’s been available via trade for next to nothing multiple times and none of the 29 other teams have bitten, I think he’ll realize only overseas teams, and sadly not even the best ones, are capable of seeing his true greatness.

  67. Checked Tatum’s stats at halftime to see how amazing he’s been doing this season and he’s got a league average TS% for a wing (on good usage). Is he the best player in the NBA or the best player in NBA history?

  68. For every great performance like today’s, Tatum puts up a 6-18 clunker.

    But those pretty much get ignored by the hype machine

  69. Stats are there for all so anybody can see & study them.
    Games are also there for those with more free time who enjoy watching the game and check players with their own eyes.
    What’s Not there is the comparison/analysis of those two and the finding of the hidden gems and the busts of the future.
    That’s where the true valuable scouting lies imho.

  70. Re: Fury/Wilder, yeah that illegal punch was kind of a shame because Fury looked terrific and probably would’ve won anyway, but Wilder was so clearly a different fighter after that.
    That being said, Fury was absorbing Wilder’s hits very well and exposing his lack of defense perfectly. Fury’s just a damn problem with that length and quickness. I hope we get to see him fight Joshua.

  71. It was a really good scrap before the illegal punch.

    Fury was getting the better of the exchanges, but Wilder was juuust missing with some of those right hand bombs. That would have been a risky strategy for Fury to pursue, but with Wilder compromised because of the ear it was, well, a lot less risky.

    I don’t think the gap in ability between them is as large as it appeared last night.

  72. So, was it an illegal punch? It kind of looked like Wilder turned his head a bit.

    Is that the kind of thing a boxed knows he is doing or an accident?

  73. Yeah I don’t think Wilder has ever been hurt that badly. It’s a testament to his strength that he could hang in there with a top fighter for that long after getting hurt in that way.

  74. I sometimes wonder if the development coaches on this team didn’t completely suck (when was the last player the Knicks had that was much better year 3 than year 1?) … in that completely different universe, are Frank, Dennis, RJ, Mitch, Kristaps, Shumpert etc MUCH better players right now? Then I wake up and realize they’re just as bad at drafting as developing

  75. The punch to the back of the head was definitely not intentional In my opinion. Fury isn’t a dirty fighter. Wilder just turned his head in the wrong way and that’s the kind of stuff that can happen in a boxing ring. Wilder does have ragged defensive technique. A more schooled defensive fighter probably wouldn’t have taken that blow to the back of the head.

  76. JK47 and tnfh, why do you even bother? Any objective analyst would conclude that Frank has barely improved, at best from league-worst PG to bottom 10% of the PGs in the league. But don’t worry, any day now he will turn the corner.

  77. So looking over our tank standings and noticed once again MIN is badly underperforming its pythagorean expected wins… Decided to go and look shit up… it’s looking like 12 straight seasons now where they will not exceed their pythagorean expected wins. What are the odds??

    2020: 16-38 vs. expected 21-33 — -5 wins
    2019: 36-46 vs. expected 37-45 — -1 win
    2018: 47-35 vs. expected 47-35 — 0
    2017: 31-51 vs. expected 38-44 — -7 wins
    2016: 29-53 vs. expected 31-51 — -2 wins
    2015: 16-66 vs. expected 19-63 — -3 wins
    2014: 40-42 vs. expected 48-34 — -8 wins
    2013: 31-51 vs. expected 34-48 — -3 wins
    2012: 26-40 vs. expected 28-38 — -2 wins
    2011: 17-65 vs. expected 24-58 — -7 wins
    2010: 15-67 vs. expected 17-65 — -2 wins
    2009: 24-58 vs. expected 27-55 — -3 wins

  78. So looking over our tank standings and noticed once again MIN is badly underperforming its pythagorean expected wins… Decided to go and look shit up… it’s looking like 12 straight seasons now where they will not exceed their pythagorean expected wins. What are the odds??

    My guess is there is a real reason for this; it’s not justly chance. To speculate, perhaps the margins of victory used in computing expected wins aren’t normally distributed for Minnesota and are in fact skewed in distribution. If the asymmetric distribution had a real cause, then mathematically, predicting wins from the average (that is, the mathematical mean) would always give the wrong number of wins. For example, suppose they only have five decent players and the rest of their players aren’t just a little worse than those five, they are a lot worse. Then on those days when all of those five players are healthy and can play, they have one expected outcome. On the days when one of those five is injured or otherwise unavailable, the quality of the backup players is such that the expected result is much worse. Then you won’t get the sort of normal distribution of margins of victory that Pythagorean calculations depend on.

  79. I’m surprised the NBA didn’t reschedule tonight’s games. I think it’s safe to say I’m an empath lol..I actually cried when Pac died, and when Kobe died the way he did- I felt that shit in my soul. Still tough to think about

  80. So Macri is really pushing that Thibodeau to the Knicks is all but a done deal. So here’s to an outdated offense and playing Taj 40 minutes.

  81. Totes McGoats as Totes McGoats:
    I’m surprised the NBA didn’t reschedule tonight’s games. I think it’s safe to say I’m an empath lol..I actually cried when Pac died, and when Kobe died the way he did- I felt that shit in my soul. Still tough to think about

    Did I miss something? Why would tonight’s games be rescheduled?

  82. In honor of Kobe’s 24.

    I think people are more focused on the pandemic going on. Maybe not though….

  83. So Macri is really pushing that Thibodeau to the Knicks is all but a done deal. So here’s to an outdated offense and playing Taj 40 minutes.

    Does Macri have a decent track record of being well sourced? I’ve said my anti-Thibs piece, but leaving that aside, it’s so dumb to be 90% settled on a coaching hire before you’ve even started the process. Particularly for a young team where development should be the goal they could definitely go with a less experienced hire which really opens up some options. But instead they’re just going to settle on a totally expected, totally mediocre retread without even considering other possibilities. Why am I not surprised?

  84. I don’t think he ever broke any news before, he’s a fan blog writer who is now with SI- but on his podcast he said it’d definitely a done deal, which is out of character for him. I believe it.

    Either way, I don’t think Thibs is mediocre. His teams always had good defense and offensive ratings. He did coach young Rose, Butler, and Noah to better stats across all lines. And he did have Korver and Deng shoot 3’s more than they ever were before.

    But it’s obvious his schemes are outdated, and his Wolves team did not do well in the modern NBA- they were 24th in pace and 30th in 3’s attempted. Defense (although with Towns and Wiggins, what could you do) was terrible by all counts. He was a terrible GM too, which doesn’t change my opinion of his coaching.

    He always did well enough in getting his guys to rebound, defend, and get to the foul line. He’s not mediocre by any stretch, and may be very good. But i’m doubtful

  85. In honor of Kobe’s 24.

    Like… because of the date? Dudes are getting real sentimental right now.

  86. Oh, it’s the day of the memorial. You can’t cancel a dozen professional games out of sentiment, man. Not gonna happen. If you love Kobe, just, like… watch basketball in his honor.

  87. The only hope for a Thibs regime is that he learned from his miserable failure in Minnesota. Can’t say I’m optimistic

  88. Macri hasn’t broken news before, but he’s not some Tommy Dee-esque shit stirrer for the sake of it so I believe he’s got a solid source.

    We can go back and forth on the merits of Thibs specifically, but it’s very, very obvious that our “search” either already was, or will be, limited to namezzzzzz.

    Color me skeptical. The word on Thibs at his last two destinations was that the game has passed him by, and it’s a little hard for me to believe he’s spent the meantime vigorously studying new trends. My guess is he’s closer to the Phil Jackson side of things–he’ll be eager to prove screaming “ICE” at the top of your lungs is still the way to go.

    Meet the new front office, same as all of the ones I’ve been alive for save for the Grunwald anomaly.

  89. Player relationships are as big a problem as the fear that the game passed Thibs by. It seems to come down to personality. Derrick Rose and Jimmy Butler swore by the guy. They’re both pretty fierce competitors. Maybe Mitch and Barrett have similar internal makeups but they seem a lot more like KAT and Wiggins.

    It doesn’t bode well for Frank and Knox, but nothing else does, either.

  90. So are the Wizards terrible in part because Beal’s usage is like 33% and he’s taking 30+ shots?
    Or is it simply because the Wiz are shit defenders?

  91. Defense (although with Towns and Wiggins, what could you do) was terrible by all counts.

    It’s always hard to separate out exactly what is coaching and what is due to the players, but I do think it’s worth noting that both Towns and Wiggins were supposed to be pretty elite defensive prospects coming into the league and clearly have some talent on that end. Admittedly no other coach has been able to get those guys to defend either so I definitely can’t put that all on Thibs by any means, but I don’t see them as no-hopers like Trae Young. At least in theory it should be possible to get those guys to defend so for a supposedly elite defensive coach I have to put that as at least a small demerit. I still think the bigger issue is that his standout Ds were built around walling off the paint at all costs and I’m just not sure that works in a league that’s way, way more 3-point focused (his first season in Boston the average team took 18 3s a game; that’s up to 34 per game this year).

    Offensively, he’s just going to provide more awful “eat what you kill” BS. I can’t get past the fact that even on his one decent TWolves team, Derrick Rose (.463 TS%), Jamal Crawford (.519) and Andrew Wiggins (.505) all had higher usage than Towns (.646). That’s coaching malpractice.

  92. just saw a replay from the fury-wilder fight where fury is licking on wilder’s bloody neck…

    fury is a hard guy not to like…dude is just 110% engaged…

  93. so houston is favored by 14 tonight…I’m pretty doubtful we can cover…randall and mitch should have good games though…

  94. We are already almost the worst offensive team in the league, and that standing includes a lot of games with Morris on the roster. Unless Miller pulls off miracle we will have the worst offensive team rating of any team in the league by the end of the season (because we will have more games without Morris). That is a big challenge for Thibs and I doubt he can overcome it.

  95. My biggest concern with Thibs is that he runs his stars into the ground, but since we don’t have any stars, nothing to worry about!

  96. Playing time notwithstanding, I could see Harden and Westbrook each going for 30-10 tonight. That peeweeball lineup is murdering dudes right now. They should be 10-0 with it.

  97. >>>That is a big challenge for Thibs and I doubt he can overcome it.<<<

    I think we have an offense that's a reasonable expectation for the players on the court. Trying to find a coach who draw water from a stone is pointless. This is a challenge for the front office.

  98. I don’t know how I feel about Thibs. When we had Melo, I was all for it. Dunno about now. Fantastic coach but I just worry that he runs RJ and Mitch into the ground

  99. >My biggest concern with Thibs is that he runs his stars into the ground, but since we don’t have any stars, nothing to worry about!<

    lmao

    At least he'll bench anyone that doesn't play defense. So I guess we are going to replace much of what Mills/Perry have done. That's a start towards winning basketball.

  100. I think the offense won’t be as hard to improve as it looks. We just need a few sensible basketball changes. IMO, several of our players would be more efficient in lineups with more spacing that allowed them to do what they are actually good at. The problem will be choosing who to keep, who to move, and what we can get for them given they look worse than they actually are playing in NY now.

    I think they almost have to keep Robinson and RJ Barrett (not that RJ has been good, but he’s too young to give up on and does have some obvious skills), but almost everyone else should be on the table. The idea would be to bring in starter level players that can shoot (and at least hold their own on D) and draft picks that can shoot. Some of the other young players can remain as role players off the bench if they are especially good on one side or the other and still have some upside.

  101. Actually, I think many of the young players have personalities well suited for Thibs. Frank, for one, would probably like working in any kind of system, but probably would be appreciated by Thibs for his defense. RJ sounds like a guy who would like getting pushed to be better (disclaimer that he could have been talking out of his ass), and Mitch is a rim protecting big who may do well with him as well. Dotson too. I just don’t see the Dennis Smith Jr’s of the team getting any appreciation from him– good.

  102. I agree you need new players to get a better offense We particularly need shooters. I just don’t see Thibs using them properly. I’d rather have Stan van Gundy or maybe Mike Miller.

  103. yeah, that NBA league pass ain’t looking like such a great investment at the moment…

    not sure how much more knick “basketball” I’ll even watch this year….

  104. Anyone else think the Bucks are going to be the next 70-win team? They have a remarkably easy schedule in their final four (less likely to lose if Giannis is on a rest rotation), but a rough run of @DAL, TOR, @TOR, @BOS and @PHI leading up to that, and I’d guess they’re going to approach those games like playoff contests.

  105. Anyone else think the Bucks are going to be the next 70-win team? They have a remarkably easy schedule in their final four (less likely to lose if Giannis is on a rest rotation), but a rough run of @DAL, TOR, @TOR, @BOS and @PHI leading up to that, and I’d guess they’re going to approach those games like playoff contests.

    I don’t see any reason why rest should be the defining issue – they’ve been dynamite when Giannis has rested all year, and resting up for the playoffs is less of an issue when you’re going to be favored by like 20 points in every game of your first round series. They need to go 22-4 or better to get to 70 (.846 win percentage) which is just slightly under their pace for the year (.857). The smart bet whenever you’re looking at crazy outliers is typically regression to the mean so I’d bet againt them getting there, but I certainly wouldn’t be shocked if they did. It’s interesting that there really hasn’t been much talk about indisputably one of the greatest regular seasons of all time. I guess due to the combined effect of 73-9 having been so recent (and not ending in a title) combined with the perception at this point that the Bucks are more of a regular season team (unfair in my mind). Still they definitely deserve to be getting more press.

  106. caught some stupid bug that went from a mild cough on friday to keeping me in bed most of the weekend…

    needless to say, showed up at work today (i’m actually wearing a mask, god have the times changed) and in a bit of a pissy mood…

    thankfully though, i’m in So Cal where there are lots and lots of laker and kobe fans…as i was passing someone’s work station i noticed a couple of folks watching the memorial service – perfect opportunity for me to stop and and bring a little of my own type of cheer: “so, it doesn’t bother you that the guy was a rapist”“you know, that poor young girl had cuts along her private parts, i guess not only was he a rapist, but he was really well endowed”

    i got the typical she shouldn’t have been up there in the room speech, added in with the usual mike tyson: she asked for it (not so surprisingly, this was from a woman)…followed by a reluctant – yes, no does mean no…

    i left it at that…my work had been done…

    nothing like shitting on someone’s day a bit to make you feel better about yours :)

  107. I don’t see any reason why rest should be the defining issue – they’ve been dynamite when Giannis has rested all year, and resting up for the playoffs is less of an issue when you’re going to be favored by like 20 points in every game of your first round series.

    He rested in games 77, 80 and 82 of last year, and played limited minutes (24:36) in game 81, so I don’t think the first round matchup matters at all (and yeah, they should sweep the first round easily). It’s true that they have been very good when he rests (5-1, MOV 12.8) but their wins have come against SAC, WAS, ORL, @ATL and NOP (while they were 6-18).

    I’m not saying that they can’t beat those teams handily, but it’s also categorically true that having Giannis for any amount of time in those games would increase the odds of winning.

  108. I’m wondering if there will be a national day of mourning when Harvey Weinstein gets shoved in jail.

    He did make some great movies at Miramax, ya know….

  109. the backside of geo’s hand must be throbbing rn, I love it

    There’s a mild cold-type virus ripping through Portland right now. Half of the people I know are sick or coming out of it. I’ve known Lady Jowles for going on five years and this is the first time she’s been sick.

  110. I’m wondering if there will be a national day of mourning when Harvey Weinstein gets shoved in jail.

    Isn’t he already there? Good riddance. But since Weinstein was a guy in a suit directing the flow of money behind the scenes with a stroke of the pen, not a guy directing the flow of money by putting a bouncy ball into a cylinder in front of millions, I have a sneaking suspicion that he does not get a star athlete’s hagiography. Just a hunch.

  111. it was funny, was trying to explain to the youngest god-child (age 6) about germs…asked him if he knew what they looked like – explained to him that we can’t even see them with our eyes…

    i asked him then if he knew what the purpose of germs was – i’ll tell ya, kids never cease to amaze – he nailed it: to make us sick and kill us…

    yes it would seem these nasty viruses truly are on our planet’s side in trying to control this very deadly human infestation it is fighting against…

    sounds like you have some super important work at the home to take care of mister jowles…learned a long time ago that it is impossible to make ourselves happy over a sustained period of time…the only way happiness can be achieved is through serving others (i imagine the same can also be achieved through the care of animals or nature)…it makes me smile to think that you’ve found your path to happiness so early in life…wishing both you and the missus the best…

  112. At least he’ll bench anyone that doesn’t play defense.

    That would mean Frank playing 1 on 5. And if Frank’s got a sore groin, Thibs would have to forfeit the game.

  113. >I agree you need new players to get a better offense We particularly need shooters. I just don’t see Thibs using them properly.<

    That's a question in my mind also.

    In Chicago he made defense the priority and didn't run a particularly fluid or efficient well spaced offense. But on some level that was the players. The offense was much better in Minnesota and it was the defense that was the problem. So who knows.

  114. This is getting chronic. Maybe he needs more than just rest. It’s more worrying because when in France he supposedly specifically worked on strengthening that area. It’s not as bad as last year, but it can’t be good for his development to be in and out of the lineup and on and off the court so often.

  115. He rested in games 77, 80 and 82 of last year, and played limited minutes (24:36) in game 81, so I don’t think the first round matchup matters at all (and yeah, they should sweep the first round easily). It’s true that they have been very good when he rests (5-1, MOV 12.8) but their wins have come against SAC, WAS, ORL, @ATL and NOP (while they were 6-18).

    I’m not saying that they can’t beat those teams handily, but it’s also categorically true that having Giannis for any amount of time in those games would increase the odds of winning.

    I honestly didn’t realize he rested quite that much in the homestretch last year. I didn’t intend to disagree that resting him wouldn’t worsen their chances to get to 70; as you rightly say, not playing the best player in the league is always a deterrent to winning basketball games. All I meant was that if they want to have a go at it I don’t think any need to rest him would hold them back; Giannis’ minutes load is already super reasonable. I really have no idea whether it’s something they care about achieving and I could easily see that being the deciding factor in the end. All I was trying to say is that I think it’s more likely they get tripped up just because it’s really hard for even an all-time great team to have a 22-4 stretch than for any one specific reason.

  116. Anyone else notice ESPN hasn’t been updating it’s NBA Real Plus Minus metric since the all star break?

  117. What did I do to deserve having to watch the Knicks? :-)

  118. Stats Doomsday
    The day the stats would not be free for everyone but you’ll have to pay to get an access to them it’s the day the 3rd World War would start.

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