2019-20 Game Thread: Knicks @ Isaiah Thomas and Four Guys Off of the Street

Bradley Beal has officially been ruled out for tonight’s Knicks/Wizards game. Isaiah Thomas is back from his two-game suspension, but the Wizards’ decimated roster continues to be decimated. It’s essentially IT and Troy Brown.

The Knicks get Wayne Ellington back and Mitchell Robinson is active despite toe issues.

Meaningless winning streak, here we come!

Let’s go? Knicks!

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91 thoughts to “2019-20 Game Thread: Knicks @ Isaiah Thomas and Four Guys Off of the Street”

  1. it’s them mother fucking 4 other other guys off the street again…julius randall will once again hit 30 plus, morris will chip in another 20, who knows who else will score, payton will get 8 or so assists – and mitch will be a one man defensive scheme…

    payback…and, let’s hope they didn’t sleep through their shootaround again…

  2. yeah, and I’m going to try and avoid watching chase young play ball tonight, cuz life’s not fair…

  3. When was the last tine the Knicks were favorites on the road?

    The NBA will probably have this game expunged from the archives

  4. It’s always been so weird to me that Payton Jr. couldn’t get a contract. His college stats were fairly intriguing…and also, he’s a freakin’ Payton.

    It’s like some weird reverse nepotism thing.

  5. Competitive with a 9-21 team if all that team’s good players are hurt is what Dolan was hoping for with this season, right?

  6. Hubert, you spout more unfounded (and often pointless) conspiracy theory bullshit than Trump, Giuliani and Devin Nunes combined. Your response is so shallow and stupid that I won’t even take the time to dignify it.

    Let’s talk about unfounded and pointless. We’ll break it down one by one. Feel free to support any of your claims with evidence.

    1:

    The main reason we’re playing better is Miller.

    2:

    He’s coaching the players he has in a way that maximizes their strengths and masks their weaknesses.

    3:

    Miller isn’t big on platitudes, he’s just a straight-laced systemless x’s-and-o’s grinder gym rat,

    4:

    There seems to be a much greater emphasis on individual accountability.

    5:

    I see much more sophisticated PnR play on both sides of the ball

    6:

    Miller … cares about nothing but playing smart basketball with no favoritism or hidden agendas.

    7:

    He may not last here, but he’s got a future as a head coach of a good team.

    Sorry, sunshine. You made all that all that up, and we still call out bullshit here. Your feeble ad hominen attacks aren’t going to support your Miller narrative.

  7. Sorry, sunshine. You made all that all that up, and we still call out bullshit here. Your feeble ad hominen attacks aren’t going to support your Miller narrative.

    I generally reserve my arguing for the more intelligent posters here. Sorry, you don’t qualify.

  8. Is six steals a lot? Seems like a lot. I’ve been advised they don’t matter to defense though so..

  9. I generally reserve my arguing for the more intelligent posters here.

    Yeah, we’ve seen how that usually goes. Good luck with that.

    I’ve got no interest in trading insults with you. This is about Miller and the narrative you’ve been trying to will into existence.

    A few weeks back you were telling us what a dream he was going to be because he’s so good at developing talent. Yet here he is riding Payton, Morris, Randle, and Portis.

    He’s better than Fizdale, I’ll give you that. But all this praise you’re heaping on him is entirely unfounded. The guy is… forgettable.

  10. Can any of our young guys do a thing or two to prevent this from being one of the more loathsome wins in recent memory?

  11. And fwiw, I wasn’t going to go there, but it’s pretty obvious you think Miller is a bigger gym rat than Fizdale for the same reason people thought Waybe Chrebet was a harder worker than Keyshawn Johnson and Wes Welker maximized his ability more than Randy Moss. I may not be the most intelligent poster on the board but I can see when someone’s prejudice is showing.

  12. Can any of our young guys do a thing or two to prevent this from being one of the more loathsome wins in recent memory?

    Barrett’s turning it over every other possession, what else do you want? They can’t like, shoot it for the Wizards.

  13. And fwiw, I wasn’t going to go there, but it’s pretty obvious you think Miller is a bigger gym rat than Fizdale for the same reason people thought Waybe Chrebet was a harder worker than Keyshawn Johnson and Wes Welker maximized his ability more than Randy Moss. I may not be the most intelligent poster on the board but I can see when someone’s prejudice is showing.

    Now you’re just being an asshole…oh wait, never mind, you’re always one. Which is why I generally ignore your posts and don’t take the bait when you say stuff like the above.

  14. Getting a pretty good Festivus airing of the grievances in here this evening. Granted, that’s pretty much every other day too.

  15. Just got in and put the game on, Frank gets a steal and makes a really nice pass to Portis who doesn’t shoot for some reason and starts a possession where the Knicks have like 5 great looks and don’t take a shot and we’re only one up on Papasneaks and friends

  16. Randle’s been earning his contract lately…

    Yeah, he was great today. Terrible competition, but you can only play who you play, and he played great. The rest of the team was mostly terrible (at least Mitch did some good Mitch stuff).

  17. It’s so evident that taking randle out of the stupid point forward ‘franchise’ role has made him infinitely better. He actually looks like a real player

  18. julius randall will once again hit 30 plus, morris will chip in another 20, who knows who else will score, payton will get 8 or so assists – and mitch will be a one man defensive scheme…

    Wow, pretty well done, geo (except Morris was a bit off tonight).

  19. I don’t mind keeping THIS Randle.
    But is he really This One ?
    Or is he the Other One ?
    Only time will tell.

  20. It’s so evident that taking randle out of the stupid point forward ‘franchise’ role has made him infinitely better. He actually looks like a real player

    Whenever we talk about it, it still boggles my mind that someone thought that that made sense.

  21. Randle is also making really good decisions when he has the ball. Doesn’t force things and recognizes double teams.

  22. Fizdale was a terrible coach.

    He really was. Maybe a little better than Derek? It’s really hard to judge. Worse than Horny. Better than Rambis.

  23. Fiz ran a no PnR offense and a switch everything defense with way too much zone mixed in. Glad we don’t have to stomach that shit any more.

  24. Point forward Randle and PG (politics guard) Payton combined for 14 assists and 11 turnovers. General Ntilikina had 8 points on 2 shots and a 5-1 assist to turnover ratio but none of you are ready for that conversation.

  25. Didn’t catch the game, but I’ll take 14 pts on 13 shots from rookie RJ.

    Frank had a nice bounce back game.

    Mitch put up numbers in limited minutes.

    Should probably hope for the loss, but it’s just sad to lose to this Wizards team.

    Miller has 5 wins, but I suspect Fizdale could have won against most of these teams too. I wouldn’t underestimate Payton’s impact either. As little faith I put in Frank, even he is a huge step up from any non-Payton PG on this roster. Still prefer Miller to Fizzle.

  26. Why do we want to trade randle again?

    There is no need to dump him….. however if a good trade came around for interesting future assets….. it should be considered….

    Me7o with a few more 5-14 shooting night and 5 rebounds is going to quickly wear out his welcome in Portland. Randle for Bazemore works money-wise and is a huge upgrade over Me7o if you can get the right combination of future assets for instance.

  27. Point forward Randle and PG (politics guard) Payton combined for 14 assists and 11 turnovers. General Ntilikina had 8 points on 2 shots and a 5-1 assist to turnover ratio but none of you are ready for that conversation.

    Frank actually got to the line 5 times!!! how did that happen. I’m perfectly good with Frank getting 18mpg at backup point…. I’d just like to get him a little run at the 2 also where he seems a better fit.

  28. And fwiw, I wasn’t going to go there, but it’s pretty obvious you think Miller is a bigger gym rat than Fizdale for the same reason people thought Waybe Chrebet was a harder worker than Keyshawn Johnson and Wes Welker maximized his ability more than Randy Moss.

    Booooooo-urns

  29. FWIW, and not to be overlooked in this drudge of a season, Ntilikina and Knox are both playing significantly better (though still a long way from good).

    Knox is shooting .600 from 0-3 ft whereas last year he only hit at a .500 clip from that range. He’s also increased his assists while decreasing his TOs. I’ve seen the Knicks use him as the PnR ball handler on occasion, don’t have Synergy but would love to know how that’s gone (probably terrible, but I’ve seen it work a few times). Last, but not least, Knox has more than doubled the number of blocks he’s getting and nearly has as many blocks this season as he did all last year.

  30. dont get too crazy about knox…. his shot mix is just not good… his 60% at the rim improvement came at the expense of rim overall rim opportunities…. which is at 18%….

    he’s compensated by shooting more 3s…. but more 3s at this young of an age isn’t good…. he’s limited… he knows he’s limited…

    the only promising thing in his line is a slight tickup in ftr…. and if he’s shooting half of his shots beyond 3 then that’s probably not sustainable….

    he’s better… but this isn’t what you call good progress….. it’s quite troubling if it wasn’t so predictable….

  31. Just sittin here thinkin..
    What if we could move DSJ for Lonzo Ball, and when we need defense- trot out a lineup of Mitch-Dot-Frank-Ball? I think I want to try Lonzo Ball on this team. There’s not really any dropoff from Payton to Ball, and Lonzo is probably better when healthy. That feels like a move that has just enough risk to not break the team, but is more likely to pay off. He also gives us another long 6’6″ defender who can switch when necessary.

  32. Doncic with another historic and unimpeachable game. Well, at least until Strat logs on.

  33. I see Knox’s future as a 3pt shooter and occasionally attacking closeouts, so I’m fine with that. He’s also shifted to playing almost exclusively at the 3 instead of as a 3/4. Fewer rim attempts is likely due to playing against quicker defenders. Besides any offense that features Knox attacking the basket as often as last year will be bad.

    Knox has a Gallinari-like talent for ragdolling himself for fouls. I think he’ll be fine drawing fouls.

    In no way do I have any delusions about Knox being good. Better, yes. Good? No.

  34. I’m tempted to keep DSJr as the ultimate tank machine. 10 minutes on any given night guarantees a loss.

  35. Don’t think I’ll find the time to come up with a recap, but here’s a few thoughts:

    – great game by Randle, but are we sure he’s really deployed correctly? I saw again a lot of Julius trying to create from the perimeter. We got away with that because Washington is horrible, but I saw some bad Randle here. I still commend his rebounding numbers (his focus is very intermittent in that department)

    – a better team will kill us with all of those turnovers

    – RJ’s not used well these days. Move him to the bench and play a lot of Mitch/RJ PnR (if Mitch’s destined to be a supersub for the time being)

    – Mitch should be fined for every dumb foul he commits. Maybe he’ll stop. He’s just too important for us to foul guys 60 feet from our cup. When he was in it was like finding the BFG in Doom

    – Knox makes no sense as a 3. Trade Portis as soon as possible

    – What’s the point in signing Ellington to 8mln when there are guys like Payton Jr (love “the Mitten” nickname) fighting for a two-way contract?

    – same applies to Portis/Gibson (even if I like Taj) and Wooten

    – but it even applies to Ivan Rabb and Wooten! These guys are clueless

    – Easy schedule helps, but Miller’s 5-6. Thank god he wasn’t promoted after 10 games or so, we’d be deep in trade talks to “improve the roster” for an ill-fated 8th seed chase

    – or are we? 5.5 out of the 8th is terribly close for a Pills helmed FO

    – The Batmobile is finished. It’s a real work of art. May Mitch be our first piece towards a masterful Knicks Lego set.

  36. – Easy schedule helps, but Miller’s 5-6. Thank god he wasn’t promoted after 10 games or so, we’d be deep in trade talks to “improve the roster” for an ill-fated 8th seed chase

    Yes but Reggie Bullock is almost back and is exactly the sort of player who will add a few wins if he plays like he did in the past. If he helps us before the trade deadline, we could see some interest in improving on the part of Knicks’ management. On the other hand, if the Knicks under Miller continue to win close to half their games, Pills might be happy enough to stand pat.

  37. I think my mother in law got some garbage time minutes for WAS last night.

    Bad for the tank yes but this is a game you have to win if you’re the Knicks. If you don’t win this game it means you’ll literally never win anything.

  38. I’ll give you another scenario about bullock. Let’s say he returns to form, that opens up things for randle now that he has a legit threat on the perimeter, add another shooter like Morris and you have an offense that could go .500 the rest of the way. Not good.

  39. If we go .500 for the rest of the year, it would mean that a) we found a coach b) some of the young players have improved c) some of the vets we signed are playing great and might be assets in the off-season and d) we’re not a laughing stock.

    But fret not, it is simply not gonna happen. Our 5 wins came against 4 horrible (and depleted) teams and one fringe playoff team that had an historically bad shooting night. We would be fortunate to go 3-7 in our next 10 games, then 5-4 in the next 9, making us at best 17-35 at the trade deadline. By then we will be dumping Morris and maybe one or two of the other vets. Then we will be playing our shitty young players more. No way we win more than 26 games.

  40. I hope your right, but bullock could fill a hole and you never know they may want to save their jobs so not trading Morris becomes a thing

  41. Rumors are that Morris is already requesting a trade. If he continues to play reasonably well (and shoot 3’s at a 45% clip) then some contender is going to make a good offer for him. My fear is that the FO does what it always does and bids against itself, unnecessarily taking on a stupid contract.

  42. – What’s the point in signing Ellington to 8mln when there are guys like Payton Jr (love “the Mitten” nickname) fighting for a two-way contract?

    Ellington can (or could) shoot and Gary Patyon II is 27 and has been horrible for his limited NBA career. Looking at it more holistically the Knicks of course should have signed fewer medicore vets and tried to churn through some younger g-league type players but ownership wanted to try to win more games this year.

  43. On another note, I was reading about how the GSW are grappling with Lee and Bowman coming up near the end of the 2-way deal limit. I’m wondering if there are any decent players that will become available as this happens to them and other teams.

  44. I read that GSW wants to trade some of their veterans for future assets. That doesn’t seem like a good trade situation for us.

  45. I would be happy to do that, but the article said GS wants to make space for their two way players, not get rid of them. That’s why they want to move veterans.

  46. Gary Patyon II is 27 and has been horrible for his limited NBA career

    He only played 431 NBA minutes. In his 111 most recent minutes, he’s been outstanding. He also tore up the G-League in 500 minutes this year, per 36 numbers: 23.8 pts, 10.3 reb, 6.9 ast, 3.5 stl, 1.2 blk, 2.9tov, with a .638 TS%. His reb/ast/stl numbers were also very strong last year, seems like he a consistent .540+ TS% away from being a NBA rotation player. I was very impressed with his motor, especially on D. Maybe he’s figuring it out…like Frank might at age 27.

  47. If Bullock eventually takes RJs spot in the starting lineup he doesn’t even have to be that good and we could make a run for the 8 seed. He just needs to avoid sucking.

    This year’s Morris, Randle from the last couple games, and Bullock could do a lot of things well.

  48. the De’Anthony Melton bandwagon is still accepting applications for the holiday procrastinators out there. we will also consider selective readmissions provided your hand stamp is still legible. reminder that he is 21, and while no longer available for free, he goes RFA this year on a team with Ja and Tyus Jones under contract. We could keep frank and sign Melton and Kris Dunn and start a fake point guard boy band of awkwardly stifling defenders. the other smothers brothers.

  49. Since you brought it up, I compared Ntilikina’s current, age 21, season to Payton’s first, age 24, NBA season. Payton played 6 games that year and his stats were worse than Frank’s. If it takes three years from now for Frank to get good (like it took Payton) then you have a good 24 year old guard, which is a nice thing to have.

  50. Payton II is a nice reclamation project on a bare minimum salary, nothing more. Frank is earning essentially mid-level money for bottom 10-in-league production. The odds of Frank being worth anything more than the bare minimum in the next 2 years are extremely low. Alas, we are locked into grossly overpaying him next year, and if he shows any potential we will likely have to overpay him to keep him.

    That said, I do think that Frank’s FT shooting is not a mirage and there is a reasonable chance that he will shoot better from the perimeter and on pull-ups as he ages and become more valuable.

  51. Lamar Peters is only 21 and looks Like a legit pg in Westchester. I also like Wooten as a backup defensive big and would like to call them both up.

    As far as trades, Morris could happen if the brain trust thinks Knox is ready to step up (or if they just slide RJ over or use Bullock there). We definitely need a solid first rounder for him though. I’d love to trade DSJ because I doubt he’ll ever be good – but for what? Maybe another untested young player like Anfernee Simons?

  52. i’m on board with frank’s shot looking a bit better this year. his release looks a little more compact, and it looks like maybe that’s helping him keep his form a little more consistent. he used to have this occasional hitch that would creep in every few attempts. haven’t seen it as much this year.

  53. I don’t care if we are overpaying Frank unless we need the money for somebody good. I doubt our ability to attract A list players anyway, so we might as well keep paying Frank and see how much he improves.

  54. I missed the game, and see that Frank shot (and made) 5 free throws, had 5 assists, and grabbed 4 rebounds. And all in 17 minutes? Um, how?
    :-)

  55. @81

    I don’t care if we are overpaying Frank unless we need the money for somebody good. I doubt our ability to attract A list players anyway, so we might as well keep paying Frank and see how much he improves.

    This is a lousy team. Isn’t it possible that most of the players are overpaid, other than Mitch? Starting, of course, with Portis…

  56. KnickfaninNJ I don’t know if that’s an encouraging comp for Frank!

    Brief NFL interlude: If the Lions hold on to this 14 point halftime lead, Chase Young is slightly back in play at 4:25. I kind of expected the cowboys to lay an egg, tbh. I’m more afraid of the Giants winning one more.

  57. When Frank is bad he’s really bad.
    But when he’s good he’s …Ok !

    He still commits foolish fouls and seems like he’s experiencing stage freight at times but he also has many promising moments when he’s turning into ‘baby magic johnson mode’ with confident galloping dribbling, fancy passing and even rebounding and scoring !!!

    I still believe in Frank becoming a good Starter ! Yes. Starter.

  58. life is a funny thing

    so. never married, never had children, very strong introvert tendencies…and yet, out of 365 days – i’ll spend maybe 20 or fewer days alone each year…

    if you find solace in solitude – i’d highly recommend this: Hulk – The End

    so, after spending part of the morning hiding in my bathroom (sanctuary for the parenting weary) from the god kids, got a buddy who’s been calling and texting for a couple of weeks, trying to get together and chill for a bit…

    not sure why, but i’ve rarely ever experienced boredom or loneliness…it just doesn’t really happen for me…it’s like a curse…it’s one of the reasons i love this distant blog type interaction – lot’s of space in between…hell, a good bit of my comments are mostly me talking to myself anyways…

    when i feel this way too strongly though – i keep this image in my mind…spoiler: it’s the ending to the end…

    howdy farfa…just googled the batmobile

    the patience you must have…i was just wondering – are you supposed to glue that thing together, or, does it hold tight without – does it roll?

  59. For those asking how Frank got five free throws. Two came when he drove to hoop and was fouled (yes, he actually did that). Two more came when he was fouled as he attempted a mid range shot and one was when he shots a technical free throw due to a Wizards’ three second violation.

  60. Beyond the strategic change, I like the way the team is attacking on defense. Looking forward to seeing how they do defensively vs Portland.

  61. the patience you must have…i was just wondering – are you supposed to glue that thing together, or, does it hold tight without – does it roll?

    It does hold tight without and it rolls very well at 7 pounds of bricks! And you should see the hidden guns that burst out on the sides.

  62. Was looking for an old post and came across the draft thread from just six months back. Wow, this one has aged well!

    https://knickerblogger.net/cbs-sports-2019-nba-draft-new-york-knicks-select-dukes-rj-barrett-with-no-3-overall-pick/#comment-661763

    @10 bro the draft is not your expertise. I’m truly sorry you’ll have to take that Brandon Clarke poster off your bedroom wall and all, but you don’t know what you’re talking about.

    Oh my god! It gets worse:

    @10 bro the draft is not your expertise. I’m truly sorry you’ll have to take that Brandon Clarke poster off your bedroom wall and all, but you don’t know what you’re talking about.

    Brandon Clarke: .469 3P% so far

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