Knicks Morning News (2018.12.07)

Regarding last night’s discussion of minutes distribution, I’d be fine with it if Frank was playing at least a little. This team was put together with a lot of placeholders, plus your odd Courtney Lee (and maybe Mario and Mudiay) who they need to showcase a bit in hopes of trading him. There aren’t that many guys who are unquestionably going to be here next year. That in and of itself isn’t ideal roster construction, but you also can’t just force feee minutes to Mitch on nights when he’s fouling everyone, or to Knox when he can’t throw the ball in the ocean. But if they have all of Hezonja’s minutes to Frank – and more if he happens to be playing well that night – I’d be okay with it.

I’m really hoping this is just tough love from Fizdale and that Frank will get another chance in the rotation. If they’ve already given up on him, that’s idiotic.

I’m skeptical of their ability to pull the trigger, too, but this is the first year we know definitively that they’re trying to move Lee. And that they have no interest in making the playoffs. Mudiay is going to be a weird case, because they’re invested in him as their reclamation project and/or because they view him (if so, probably very foolishly) as part of Plan B if Durant doesn’t come, so I don’t know what a non-trade of him would tell us about Perry. But if Lee’s still here after the deadline, it’s only because they couldn’t find anybody to take him without the sweeteners becoming too onerous.

So 5-15 in the next 20, how’s that sound?

You have to make hay while the Sun shines my friend! 🙂

Neptune, like the Knicks, doesn’t get much sunshine….

Nahhhh I work at night and am poolside in Florida by 11 AM 🙂

I really don’t like these games where, like, NOTHING happens to further our understanding of any of the players on the team. Not that they should have won, of course, as this should have been a loss from the start, but just a general “Did anyone develop? Did we learn anything new about anyone? Or was this just a non-descript loss?”

I love games like this. They were terrible, and they were terrible because of all the right guys. If you want to tank, you have to suffer a lot of these pointless losses.

This year, I’d rank the best possible outcomes of every game in this order:

Optimal: when we get blown out while playing all the veterans and pending free agents as they expose how truly awful they are.

Acceptable: when we win because the kids played well

Suboptimal: when we lose because the kids played terrible and they suffer consequences for their bad play

Unacceptable: when we win because the veterans played well while the pending free agents increased the value of their next contract at our expense.

The real problem with our team is the total lack of talent. We literally have nothing we can trade, develop or secure.

We are not seeing progress because no meaningful progress is possible with this group of players. It’s a depressing picture and there’s no clear path forward other than expecting a draft miracle. And even then, it will be years before we can assemble a decent roster.

Phil Jackson’s legacy.

Question for the more cap savvy among us–could we negotiate an in-season extension with Vonleh? I’m starting to become a true believer and I can’t seem to find anything online about whether or not we can do that. It seems very rare but I think I remember Z-Bo signing one with Memphis a number of years ago. Different CBA though so I’m not sure.

I would offer him the KOQ deal (4/$16m) right now. He might want more but it also might be hard for a guy who was just passed up by everyone to turn down $16m guaranteed.

If he’s (understandably) not interested then we should look to trade him ASAP.

I think some of the Fizdale hate is a little overblown, but not playing Frank in a game where Kyrie is torching us, Mudiay and Dotson are playing like shit, and Trier isn’t doing much just seems punitive.

Question for the more cap savvy among us–could we negotiate an in-season extension with Vonleh?

No, you can only extend guys who are on three-year deals (or more), like Z-Bo was.

Edited to add: I should have gone for the more succinct answer like ptmilo. 😉

I know we give Fizdale a lot of hate

Hate is strong. We’re just waiting for him to show us what he brings to the table besides being slick.

@13

As far as I know it’s impossible, because one year deals don’t allow for extensions. Even one year deals can be renegotiated but only for certain things, like changing the amount of money guaranteed, changing the payment schedule etc, but not to add more years. Contracts for 3 or fewer seasons cannot be extended under any circumstances, and if I recall correctly it has something to do with bird rights, an extension can only be made if the player would have full bird rights at the end of his pre-extension contract.

Thanks y’all. Good to know we signed multiple contracts that could not even conceivably help us.

Also, I could be wrong but when I play around with the capulator it seems like we can’t open up enough space for Durant’s max unless we trade or stretch one of Lee/THJ. Not that I’m all in on the “Durant or bust” plan but since the front office is, my money is on another team getting Lee with some sweetener attached.

Also, I could be wrong but when I play around with the capulator it seems like we can’t open up enough space for Durant’s max unless we trade or stretch one of Lee/THJ. Not that I’m all in on the “Durant or bust” plan but since the front office is, my money is on another team getting Lee with some sweetener attached.

You are not wrong. I believe they have to make a move still to even free up room for Kemba Walker’s smaller max contract.

I’d say there’s about a 5% chance that Frank is in the dungeon strictly due to Fizdale. It seems more likely that it’s a front office thing, so I can’t get on Fiz much for it.

They all seem to be on the same page to me. I don’t think Fizdale would bench a player he didn’t want to.

@ 11 – Massive eye roll.

“I know we give Fizdale a lot of hate, and he deserves it…”

I, for one, don’t, and don’t think he deserves it.

“I’d say there’s about a 5% chance that Frank is in the dungeon strictly due to Fizdale. It seems more likely that it’s a front office thing, so I can’t get on Fiz much for it….I don’t think Fiz is secretly seething or anything, as I don’t think he has any special affinity for anyone on the team, but even when people are on the same page, typically the front office are still the ones who are writing the page.”

More conjecture based on circumstantial evidence and nothing else. There are plenty of good reasons why any coach at this point in time would bench a 20yo in the 2nd year of a rookie deal who has been playing like a complete scrub for the entire season. It’s also in the context of him having benched other players. Why was no one here saying anything about FO meddling when Burke was benched, or Dotson? Or when Kanter was demoted, then reinserted in the starting lineup?

Not saying that it isn’t happening, only that there is zero evidence to say that it is, and even if it is, it is hardly inconsistent with a reasonable approach to young player development. There’s no urgency whatsoever to play Frank right now. You could make a much more compelling argument for meddling if he were sent to the G-League.

I think you’re right on this, Z-Man. Benching Frank is consistent with everything we’ve seen from Fiz, and his play merits the benching.

Minutes played doesn’t really help a player develop as much as we think it would, either. Studies show young players get better with age regardless of whether or not they played 500 minutes when they were 20 or 2,000 minutes.

And as I mentioned during the game thread last night, it only bothers me if we bench him because we’re chasing meaningless, counterproductive wins. As long as we get blown out, he can sit for all I care. It’s probably better for him than playing like garbage.

What is Fizdale trying to maximize? Is it wins? No! Is it player development? Does not seem so. He is playing Mario, who is hopeless. Is it trade value? No one is trading for Mudiay, or Mario. Is Mudiay even close to being worth $5.7mm qualifying offer come summer? No, not even close. Mario has no trade value, his contract runs out this year, and he is making $6.5mm! Who is going to give up anything for that? The only acceptable alternative theory to Fizdale’s poor team management, is a strong possibility that the front office has a serious case of sunk cost fallacy. They are paying more for Mario and Mudiay than Frank, so they have to play them more.

It’s definitely wins, Zulu.

And we may see that Hezonja is hopeless but the Knicks see a ton of talent waiting to be unlocked, so they’re being patient. They’re dead wrong, but that’s what they see.

There’s a new thread for these posts, y’all