(Friday, October 05, 2018 1:32:15 PM)
The Knicks‘ 20th-man carousel continues to rotate, with the team announcing today (via Twitter) that it has signed former Fresno State shooting guard Paul Watson to fill the opening on its roster. Watson, who went undrafted in 2017, played for the Westchester Knicks last season, averaging 6.2 PPG and 3.4 RPG in 45 G League […]
(Friday, October 05, 2018 12:52:59 PM)
A day after signing with the Knicks, former DePaul guard Billy Garrett has been waived, the team announced today (via Twitter). New York has been turning over the 20th spot on its roster frequently within the last week, with Garrett’s brief stint as a Knick serving as the latest example. Garrett was part of New […]
(Friday, October 05, 2018 9:25:00 AM)
First things first: nothing is given in the NBA until the contract is signed, especially when, as in the case of Kyrie Irving, nine months remain before free agency.
A lot can go wrong before July.
But the point guard sounded pretty certain about his future in Boston, which is not good for the…
(Saturday, October 06, 2018 2:26:10 AM)
David Fizdale inserted Emmanuel Mudiay into Friday’s starting lineup in hopes of busting the once-hyped prospect out of his shooting slump. Instead, the coach watched another former lottery pick break out. Noah Vonleh increased the likelihood the Knicks hang onto the 2014 ninth-overall pick after posting 10 points and 11 rebounds in the team’s 106-100…
(Friday, October 05, 2018 9:31:05 PM)
Kevin Knox was thrust into a demanding spotlight the moment his name was uttered by Commissioner Adam Silver as the ninth-overall pick in this year’s NBA draft. Knox tasted a sample of such interest — and scrutiny — in his lone season at Kentucky, and is certain to face far more as a first-round pick…
(Friday, October 05, 2018 10:14:35 PM)
The Knicks collected their third straight preseason victory with a 106-100 win over the Pelicans at MSG on Friday night.
(Friday, October 05, 2018 6:01:58 PM)
Robinson had to be helped off the court on Wednesday night after spraining his right ankle during the second half of the game against the Nets.
(Friday, October 05, 2018 12:30:21 PM)
Once considered a Knicks target in next year’s free agency class, Celtics point guard Kyrie Irving announced he plans to re-sign on a long-term deal Boston instead of exploring other options.
53 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.10.06)”
Perry might have to package Lee and Dotson in a 2 for one deal to make room for Trier and Vonleh once the team buys Noah out. A deal like that should also fetch a decent draft pick. I think I’m ok with that..especially if Ntilikina is being groomed on the wing
Here are stats for two PF/C types. Player A will be an UFA and Player B will be an RFA.
——————PLAYER A ——–PLAYER B
AGE———————22—————-23
MP———————3573—————326
BPM——————Minus 3.9————- .2
VORP—————–Minus 1.7————– .2
WS/48——————.059————– .077
PER——————–10.7—————13.6
RPM——————- -1.7————— -1.7
TS%——————–.499—————.516
3FG%——————.297—————-.354
DRB%——————30—————–18.0
ORB%——————9.1—————–3.8
DIME%—————-4——————–11.6
BK%——————-1.8——————4.2
TO%——————-14.0—————–8.5
You’ve failed the GM test if you want to cut player B (Kornet) in favor of player A (Vonleh).
Correction: Vonleh is 23yo, 23yr and 43D to be exact. Luke is 23yr and 83D.
It’s kind of silly to compare Kornet and Vonleh like Zanzi did in @2. Vonleh has improved since getting big minutes in his first 3 years and is younger and better than Kornet right now, and has at least one elite skill, defensive rebounding. Last year in over 800 minutes he had a DReb% of over 30, which would be top-5 in the league if he had the minutes.
Vonleh, who just turned 23 (a few months older than Trier and Mudiay, younger than Porzingis, Hezonja, Dotson, and Baker) is a perfect flier for a minimum deal on a bad team. He’s a bit undersized but makes up for it in physical tools. The trick with him is to make sure that he focuses on the things he does well…rebounding, setting screens and defense. He should only shoot point blank shots and an occasional wide-open 3. If his usage stays low and he can improve his shot selection to get his TS% up to a reasonable level, he has way more upside than Kornet, who is simply not athletic enough to keep up with today’s game, or with Fiz’s commitment to a fast-paced system. Vonleh showed signs of coming along during his last 100 games or so with Portland. He has a much better chance of becoming a rotation player than Kornet.
First of all, he’s 1 month younger than Kornet. The fact that you even put that out there is what’s silly. Second he hasn’t improved that much and do you believe Kornet is not able to improve after only 326 minutes in the NBA? He’s not better than Kornet on any comprehensive metric. He’s a much better rebounder but Kornet’s a better shooter, passer, shot blocker, and commits fewer turnovers. And a guy who shoots 3’s at a high clip is valued in the modern NBA.
Look I know you’re stoked because Noah made a power dunk right in front of your eyes. Once you sober up and look at the stats, you’ll be able to think more clearly. BTW I want both Kornet and Vonleh to get minutes but Vonleh has one decent game and people want to cut Kornet even though he’s a better player and on a more favorable contract.
Kornet is at best a 3rd string big on a bad team. Since Vonleh can play C and we still have KP waiting in the wings, they should start by dropping Kornet.
Mudiay still looks kind of hopeless, but I think they are going to keep working with him.
You can easily argue that Trier deserves a roster slot now. But for the time being keeping Trier in the “G” league until they work out a better option is superior than cutting another player with value or giving one away in a bad deal to make room for him.
It looks like Frank spent all summer getting bigger, stronger, and working on offense, but he got a lot better on defense instead. Every once in awhile, he flashes something on offense to give me hope, but it looks like he made very little progress except on defense.
326 MP isn’t a large enough sample to be drawing conclusions from about Kornet. He could be better, worse, or exactly the same as what his current profile says about him, but we don’t actually know until he plays more. In that sense, it’s kinda premature to compare him at all until that point. I think you keep both of them if possible, and if you have to cut anyone you cut Mudiay and Hicks and put Trier on the 2 way until we make another move. Since Mudiay won’t get cut I imagine we’ll make a decision between Kornet and Vonleh, in which case I think I’d keep Vonleh given that Kornet’s only possible function when KP comes back is warming his spot on the bench. But moves are obviously being made over the next few months, so we’ll see.
If we cut Allen and Noah that will get us to 17.
Well, what this team needs the most now is 3-point shooting, and that’s what Kornet supposedly delivers. He also gives you decent rim protection. He and Vonleh are just completely different players and the same age – it’s hard to say you need one more than the other.
That being said, Kornet needs to shoot threes closer to his college #s or else he won’t be that useful.
Neither Vonleh or Kornet have been good NBA players thus far in their careers. Vonleh was pretty good last year in Portland before getting traded but was used badly and played badly in Chicago and before that was a pretty bad NBA player. Kornet has never been a good player. In all honesty, the decision doesn’t matter much, they will be the third string center and barring injury neither should be in the rotation.
With that said the thing we need most from a center, both are far too slow to spend any real time at PF, is rebounding. We leaned an awful lot on Kanter and O’Quinn to pick up the rebounding slack since our team overall isn’t great at rebounding. Vonleh can do that. Kornet cannot. Overall I don’t actually know who will be better, but neither will probably be good, but Kornet fills a role we don’t need, Vonleh fills a role we need.
Vonleh and Kornet have different skills, but to me Vonleh is so monumentally better at what he does than Kornet is at what he does, it’s not much of a conversation.
Granted this is just preseason, but Vonleh is more athletic, a better rebounder, better around the basket, a better defender, and has a terrific handle for a big man.
Kornet is a decent 3 point shooter for a big man, but other than that and playing hard, he doesn’t look like an NBA player to me.
I think Vonleh is a rotation player. Granted his career to date hasn’t been great, but he is young. He may just be getting better now. He looks better.
Wow, Zanzibar, did you accidentely go for the extra strength asshole pills this AM?
But since you asked, yes, I don’t think Kornet has nearly the potential to improve at this time that Vonleh has. He is incredibly slow, both end-to-end and laterally, and players simply don’t get faster. He’s a much worse shooting but slightly better defending Steve Novak. But if your encouraged by his statistical profile, including his whopping .516 TS% last year (.007 higher than Vonleh) then good for you. I would rather roll the dice on a guy who averaged 5.7 more rebounds per 36.
My prediction: Kornet will be out of the league soon, and at best will put up garbage time stats on a garbage team. Vonleh will eventually be a back of the rotation player on a good team. Jowles, get the bookmark out.
There’s no need to even cut Kornet if Noah is getting stretch waived. Just cut Kadeem Allen, who’s not even playing, Noah, and that brings the Knicks to 15 + Trier and Hicks as two-ways. Then cut Mudiay and guarantee Trier’s contract and go for another two-way player.
I don’t see promise on Kornet, I think he has a very low ceiling from what I watched, but there’s no reason to cut him while we have one of the worst players in the league under an expiring deal on a position we have 3 other players taking minutes.
Like I said, the problem is you can make a case that Trier deserves the roster spot now. Keeping him as a 2-way for now is a temporary solution that allows us to cut someone or make a deal later. That works.
Well Vonleh was drafted 9th so will get plenty of opportunities that Kornet won’t have. He’s already on his 4th team.
No I’m encouraged by his 3FG% in the G-League and in the NBA. In particular, he started to play much better at the end of last year when he got regular minutes. He started slow in terms of shooting but then put up a TS of 66 in 107 minutes in April. That’s probably why the team gave him 1.7m deal.
OK finally an intelligent concern (my extra strength asshole pill wears off in 30 minutes). First I’d rather have a guy who’s slow on the fast break but is able to knock down a 3 as a trailer than an athletic guy who sprints up the court and then is useless once he gets there. But more broadly, will this be such a negative on defense to offset the positive effects of outside shooting, decent passing, nice shot blocking, low turnovers and high BBIQ? Very possible but Vonleh’s completely useless on the offensive end and has only shown marginal improvement there which is probably why he’s on his 4th team. At the moment, I prefer the less athletic guy who’s got the higher BBIQ and is able to shoot 3’s , pass, block shots, hit free throws, and not turn the ball over to an elite rebounder and above average defender who’s a complete zero at everything else. BUT like I’ve written I want both of these guys to be given enough minutes this season to make a determination.
Zanz, I have no issue with you personally preferring Kornet over Vonleh, they both have sucked and they both have one NBA skill (which Vonleh has actually demonstrated in the NBA while Kornet has not) and a bunch of deficits. What I have a problem with is your assertion that if one prefers Vonleh over Kornet based on the 3000 mediocre NBA minutes vs. 300 mediocre NBA minutes, you failed some sort of GM test. Their PER and WS48 last year were virtually identical. It’s at worst a toss up, and my guess is that most smart GMs would prefer Vonleh after watching them in preseason thus far.
@14
How about keeping Mudiay (because we’ll need the body there with Ntilikina’s impending wing progress and the lack of other PG’s on the roster) and finding a backup PG that’s on a shorter deal but may be a tad overpaid in a Lee/Dotson trade that will also bring back a pick? Just spitballing here..Trier’s a rotational player and Vonleh probably should be too, so room should be made before Lee loses value
I heard that their birthdays are so close together, the team elected to get 1 cake.
No it won’t. We can’t get a draft pick for Lee as it is. Throwing Dotson in does nothing. When we cut him, he will end up in Europe somewhere.
btw…..what ever happened to Mindy Kuz?
Heh, but Lee has so many suitors round the league
There was a time when people would say, presumably with a straight face, that we could trade Lee for a first whenever we wanted. Loooooool.
I guess Vonleh vs Kornet depends on whether you believe Fizdale is a good developmental coach. Vonleh seems to me to be the more talented player with some room to grow. He hasn’t been productive in the NBA but he’s clearly a very good athlete and he does already have the one plus skill, rebounding.
I don’t see Kornet developing into much more than he already is, but he may fit more of a need for this current team with his perimeter shooting. I don’t think he will stick here as a long-term piece though, I think he will probably be in Europe pretty soon.
We can trade Lee for a first round pick, Top 30 protected.
Lol did I just read a testy Kornet vs. Vonleh thread?
Lolllllllllll
Quick, everyone: should they cut Mudiay to sign Tony Wroten?
If Vonleh would stop shooting he’d be a productive NBA player. It really is that simple
Vonleh’s skill set and role overlaps with MitchRob’s. Kornet’s with KP’s. Short term, Kornet fills a bit more of a need, but Vonleh seems more likely to become a useful role player in the nba.
if we could trade Lee for an expiring deal and a 1st, we would have already done it
Courtney Lee was traded 5 times in his career, and never once any of those trades involved a single first round pick. The only time he brought something resembling any value was the first trade, his sophomore year, when the Magic traded him, Alston and Battie to the Nets for a 33 year old Vince Carter and 21 year old Ryan Anderson. After that the trades involving him brought killer packages like Troy Murphy to the Nets, JaJuan Johnson, Etwaun Moore, whoever are Sean Williams and Jon Diebler and a late 2nd to the Rockets, Jerryd Bayless and Ryan Gomes to the Celtics and finally PJ Hairston and two middling 2nd rounders to the Grizzlies.
Yeah.
A debate on whether deer scat or bear scat makes better manure.
Jowles must be torn on the issue. After looking at Vonleh’s DRB%, the last time he was so juiced was his honeymoon night. But then his eyes moved to BPM/VORP/TS/MP data and his morning wood wilted.
Who on this team is a good rebounder for their position other than Kanter, Robinson and Vonleh? Knox seems like he could be. Are any of the guards?
How Knicksy is it that Courtney has been traded to almost every team in the NBA in his career and now the Knicks are unable to unload him?
Dotson is a very good rebounder.
Jayson Tatum through 3 preseason games: 11-33
Kevin Knox through 3 preseason games: 13-34
I’m taking the guy shooting .380 over the guy shooting .333 every time.
We win!
I cannot imagine a less useful debate than who should be the 3rd-string stretch 5 on a team that has a ceiling of about 28 wins and is paying a combined $50M a year to Courtney Lee, Tim Hardaway and Joakim Noah
My guess is Lance is probably more movable than Lee at this point but Fizdale seems to really love Lance (like pretty much everybody who’s been around the guy) so I doubt they’d move him just to clear a roster spot.
As for Vonleh and Kornet: this is what training camp is for. They’re the same age and neither looks like anything more than an okay backup if that- watch them play for three weeks and pick whoever’s playing better.
Well, Jared Jeffries played 13 seasons in the NBA, so there must be people out there on front offices who appreciate Lance Thomas. I’m sure he’s a cool guy, a hard worker, a good veteran to have, but it’s just so pointless to give him minutes. At least Jeffries was like 7 feet tall so he could somewhat be big while doing not much, but oh well. I guess it also doesn’t matter much.
So, what’s worse? Having a testy debate about a couple of potential end of the bench players or then griping about the debate itself? Or, is it even worse to then comment about the gripers complaining about the testy debaters? Hmm.
🙂
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24904754/chris-paul-houston-rockets-disrespect-directed-carmelo-anthony-unbelievable
what could go wrong
D’Antoni: Hey Melo, stop taking those long twos
Melo: Nah
Should go well
But he did say I’m sorry when he took one! You guys ain’t #StayMe7o.
I think Melo is going to have a better season than last year simply because it’s his last real chance at a role in a contender team and there’s reason to believe he will respect Chris Paul enough to fall in line with the game plan at least. He won’t be good, he’ll still be overrated and not very productive, and we’ll see thousands of Reddit threads about how he’s back and all, then they’ll lose to Warriors in 6 and we’ll all move on.
I don’t think there is anything in the world that can stop jab step-pump fake-jab step-jab step-pump fake-forced short-miss-complain to ref-don’t run back on defense, but maybe I’m wrong this time
Oh I don’t think it will stop, Melo will still Melo. I think we’ll read during the season D’Antoni say they’re giving Melo some time to do his thing, with bench lineups or something, but I think at least with Paul he has a guy who’ll shut him down if he goes overboard. I think the Rockets will be worse than last year for various reasons and there will be a lot of drama.
So we beat the Pelicans, a possible playoff team in the west without having Robinson or Porzingis. Hmmmm. . . .
Kanter stuffed the box score. 20 points, 15 rebounds ( 7 offensive), 5 assists, and 1 block in 28 minutes. Not bad against AD for at least part of the time. I know it’s preseason but that’s a pretty good game at least on offense.
We’re undefeated in preseason. Enjoy it while it lasts, it may not get any better than this…
Marcus Smart is a moron
to be fair to JR, that was basically Olynyk/Love all over again — I would have been pissed, too
This Celtics team is so easy to hate.
Melo is the man who knows what he’s been missing. Many, many men can’t see the open road.
All C’s teams are easy to hate by nature, but this one is not particularly hateable. For example, they don’t hold a candle to the Pierce-Garnett genre.
I don’t know, I don’t think it’s as easy to hate as the Pierce Garnett teams, but it’s close for me. I can’t stand Marcus Smart, Marcus Morris, Hayward and the cult around Brad Stevens. I even kinda sorta sympathized with them when they had IT and were underdogs against LeBron, but now they just piss me off. I’d say it’s a 7 out of 10 on the hate scale, probably only because I specially like Al Horford. I would be so happy to see them getting crushed in the ECF against Toronto.
Vonleh v Kornet makes for the perfect thread.
The trouble with Vonleh is that he likes to get involved. He gets involved on defense and commits stupid fouls. He gets involved on offense and he turns it over/misses badly. If he’d restrict his ball-hawking to rebounds he’d be a decent 3rd string big, slightly useful to teams who need to plug a rebounding hole.
Kornet is both slow and too slight. He’s sort of okay at everything in a very back of the bench way. If he improves his 3pt% (which seems possible) he’ll be a decent 3rd string big, slightly useful to teams who needs a little extra outside shooting.
If I had to cut one I’d cut Vonleh. Kornet is mostly an empty suit, he just kinda fades into the background. Vonleh actively fucks up possessions for the team and after 3000+ NBA minutes it doesn’t seem like he’s gonna learn to play within himself. Still. There are worse and more useless players we could cut first.