Knicks Morning News (2018.09.23)

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ top priority abundantly clear at start of training camp
    (Saturday, September 22, 2018 2:22:49 PM)

    To borrow from Vince Lombardi, “Winning isn’t everything, player development is.” At least that’s the motto of the Knicks leadership quartet of Steve Mills-Scott Perry-Craig Robinson-David Fizdale entering another training camp Monday in which playoff expectations are at a low but optimism for future success at a high. Mills, the team president, has been part…

  • [NYPost] Knicks getting first test of new direction with camp opening
    (Saturday, September 22, 2018 10:44:52 AM)

    Here are the top five storylines to watch as the Knicks enter training camp: 1. What activities will Porzingis do in the preseason? President Steve Mills declined to put a timetable on Kristaps Porzingis’ return despite saying recently September’s tests would give the club a clearer idea. There still are so many variables and progressions…

  • [SNY Knicks] Kevin Knox on rookie season with Knicks: ‘I just want to win’
    (Saturday, September 22, 2018 3:30:15 PM)

    Knicks rookie Kevin Knox knows what he wants.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks’ target Kyrie Irving hasn’t spoken to Jimmy Butler since 2016
    (Saturday, September 22, 2018 10:00:28 AM)

    Kyrie Irving is “finally getting acclimated in Boston” and hasn’t spoken to Jimmy Butler since 2016. The Knicks plan to pursue both in free agency.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Can LeBron Bring Back Showtime in Year 1? Don’t Bet Against Him
    (Saturday, September 22, 2018 8:40:37 PM)

    With an unproven Lakers lineup around him, James faces a tough uphill climb to the playoffs in Los Angeles.

    • 27 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.09.23)”

    When it becomes official, the Joakim waive and stretch will officially become the second bad strategic move made by the Perry-Mills tandem. (Mudiay was the first)

    Not that it is “bad” in the sense that signing him in the first place was bad. It’s just that it eliminates less bad possible outcomes, such as including him in a trade with at dumb GM or ditching him by including a couple of second rounders or a “promising” young player (Mudiay?). Although to be fair, any other outcome was highly unlikely. And every minute he plays should be going to a Mitch, Vonleh, or a G-League call-up at this point.

    But it’s probably a move that signals a commitment to the future. Another overpaid has-been with a mouth bigger than his game tied to a miserably failed regime is jettisoned.

    It will just sting a bit whenever we consider trades/contracts where that extra 6 mill+ makes a difference.

    Noah to Minnesota makes way to much sense. I think he’ll do fine there backing up Towns and helping him learn how to defend to make him a more complete player.

    Just spit balling…. If you had a gun to your head…. whose production would you rather have for the next 5 years…. Butler at 190M or Porzingis at 150M…. that is a serious question and if it was for my life, I’d take Butler. Porzingis has such an immense skill set but contained in a body that shows no ability to play 98 games at a high level. Butler is a complete 2 way all star in his prime.

    http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycwsx5r3

    Off load contracts, keep draft choices and open up 2 max slots after stretching Noah ans saying good bye to Gibson and Kanter at the end of the season.

    I’ll duck for all the rotten tomatoes now 🙂

    Let’s offer them Timmy and Noah for Butler and Dieng. Now that their owner has mandated a trade RIGHT NOW, let’s take a shot on them doing something dumb.

    The whole issue with Butler is he’s 30. Really, there’s not much else going on. In terms of track record, sustained production, two-way game, he’s a superstar and a very very valuable player. If he was 26 I’d be running to make a trade with the Wolves even with heavy costs. But how can we know he’ll keep this level as his athleticism fades, specially when his game is very dependent on that?

    I think Butler will age well, because he doesn’t have a lot of mileage at the NBA level and has a high basketball IQ, so I see him becoming a sort of old Iguodala in the latter stages of his career. But Iguodala makes 16 million a year, not 35.

    I still think the Knicks should be throwing crap offers at the Wolves nonstop, all around THJ’s contract, and see if something sticks.

    Rockets getting into the mix?

    Eric Gordon, filler, Zhou Qi, and a 1st rounder?

    Noah might be completely done so it might not matter, but if he isn’t Minny isn’t ideal because he’s really not a great fit with either Gibson or Dieng with an i. Denver makes some sense because both their Center and backup center are pretty meh defenders and they lost the guy they were irrationally overusing as their go to PNR switch defender to Philly and they could surround him with a ton of shooters. He could also go to OKC because if anyone wouldn’t GAF if their backup constantly undressed in public for no discernible reason it’s Steven Adams.

    The whole issue with Butler is he’s 30. Really, there’s not much else going on. In terms of track record, sustained production, two-way game, he’s a superstar and a very very valuable player. If he was 26 I’d be running to make a trade with the Wolves even with heavy costs. But how can we know he’ll keep this level as his athleticism fades, specially when his game is very dependent on that?

    FWIW… Butler isn’t 30…. he just turned 29 9 days ago…….

    @11

    I guess it depends on what Noah is looking for. I was thinking in terms of his relationship with Thibs, the rest of the former Bulls, and what he could bring to the table for Towns. I’m not sure how much fit would come into it for a guy playing 12-15 minutes a night off the bench, but if he’s not going to play, that would obviously put the kibosh on that idea.

    I’m interested to see if he can still play. He’s been struggling to get in shape while recovering from surgeries and suspensions for the last few years. I thought Pau Gasol was breaking down in LA a few years back but once he put his injuries behind him she demonstrated he could still play. Noah is not that old. If he can rebound, make plays like he used to, defend at 85% of what he was, and not be a total basket case around the rim on offense, he’s still a very good player coming off the bench.

    I’d like to have Butler on the team. There’s just no way to get him without giving up valuable assets that are part of what we are trying to do.

    If we cleared out Lee/Thomas and whatever else was required, signed Butler and Kyrie, and went to war for the next few years with Kyrie, Butler, KP, Knox, Frank, Robinson, Hardaway, our 1st round lottery pick next year, whichever other young players we can sign back, and any vets that want to come to NY cheap, I could think of worse outcomes. We’d have a very solid team in the present, still have tons of developmental upside, and then when Butler finally starts wearing down in 3-5 years, the youngest kids would be peaking and we could move on from him at the end of his contract and keep rolling.

    I thought Pau Gasol was breaking down in LA a few years back but once he put his injuries behind him she demonstrated he could still play.

    This was a great typo. lmao

    Apparently there are lots of teams interested in Butler, Philly, Detroit, Miami, Clippers, Milwaukee, Brooklyn and Houston.

    It’s probably for the best, let’s keep working with the youngsters and lose a lot this season.

    I still don’t get stretching Noah, but if they don’t do anything stupid on top of it it’s fine I guess, just get him off the team.

    So Butler and Wiggins had a problem…so Minnesota gets rid of Butler?

    Who is 29.
    Is anyone worried that there is something about Butler that is problematic. I mean Wiggins?

    I’m all in on developing the talent the Knicks have. I’m tired of seeing them pay for past performance, or taking that hail Mary and offering too much.

    Frankly, watching young guys develop is way more interesting winning 29 games than watching a bunch of old guys and has beens and never weres win 29 games. At least there is the hope of an upside.

    If Butler was open to going anywhere, why wouldn’t New Orleans and Toronto be fighting over him? Either would make the league so worth watching this year.

    Butler is not open to going anywhere, his list of teams means the teams he’s willing to re-sign with eventually as of now. He doesn’t have a no trade clause so he’ll go wherever they trade him too, but whoever picks him up has no guarantee they’ll be able to keep him for more than a rental.

    It makes sense for New Orleans but they have literally zero assets, unless Minnesota loves Mirotic or E’Twaun Moore for some reason. Toronto has assets and has been rumored to be in discussions too.

    The point is that for Minnesota, the time when Towns said he couldn’t coexist with Butler is the time you have to trade Butler. There’s no way you give up a 22 year old about to be under team control for 5 more years with Towns production for one more year of Butler and then he’s gone either way. It doesn’t matter much if Towns is lazy or whatever, you always trade Butler and hope Towns fixes his issues.

    I wonder how much money Joakim Noah is going to give up in his buy out. The Noah buyout makes the Lee contract more valuable (since the Knicks won’t be desperate to free up money), but I’m still against it as a whole. Save it until you know you need it, and let Joakim Noah earn his minutes as a back up center. Mitchell Robinson doesn’t have to play a lot.

    As far as Jimmy Butler goes, I think Milwaukee should trade for him. They won’t be the best 3 point shooting team, but Bledsoe, Butler, and Giannis would make life hell for opposing offenses and they’d be a good offensive unit too. It would make the Eastern Conference very interesting, with all four of Boston, Milwaukee, Philly, and Toronto having a legit shot at getting to an NBA Finals.

    I think Milwaukee is the best fit probably, but they don’t have their 2019 pick and can’t trade 2020 too. It would have to be a package centered on either Bledsoe or Brogdon plus Minnesota taking back one or two of their bad contracts in Hanson, Snell or Dellavedova. They could include Middleton but he’s also expiring and is a good player who’s probably going to get big offers next summer. Portland is intriguing too, as they would be a much better team with him, even straight up for McCollum.

    Congrats to Tiger. Love him or hate him, it’s an exceptional accomplishment, and will make his peers and all levels of the global golf enterprise a lot of money. I watched the end of the final round in the grille room at Winged Foot after playing as a guest. Good golf day!

    I’m honestly kinda rooting for the Raptors to go for a deal. They could offer a pretty good deal in terms of young players (a package around Ibaka’s contract, plus one or two of Anunoby, Siakam or Wright) and have all their picks starting in 2020. It would be a very strong core that might be better than Boston is Leonard is fully healthy, they could start Lowry, Butler, Anunoby or Siakam, Leonard and Valanciunas and be a nightmare defensive team with a lot of versatility and good scoring. As good as the Celtics are, the Raptors could conceivably go into a series against them with the two best players in the matchup. I don’t see how any team outside of Golden State gets past this defense.

    I am kind of happy with the Timberwolves owner. He’s overruling Thibideau in the right way. Of course Thibs wants Butler for as much of the season as possible, but Butler’s value will only go down the longer the trade takes. It’s better to do it now. So the owner stepped in when he should have.

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