(Monday, January 29, 2018 9:15:57 PM)
The Nets have taken three shots at beating the Knicks and have missed each time. They would really like to avoid going 0-for-4.
(Monday, January 29, 2018 8:19:23 PM)
Joakim Noah’s days as a Knick could be numbered.
(Monday, January 29, 2018 7:48:34 PM)
Kristaps Porzingis wants the Knicks to be buyers at the trade deadline to improve their chances of making the playoffs.
[NYDN] Knicks front office needs to speak up about Joakim Noah situation (Monday, January 29, 2018 1:48:38 PM)
The Knicks’ collective silence regarding Joakim Noah’s status, both present and future, speaks volumes.
[NYDN] Kristaps Porzingis wants Knicks to be buyers at trade deadline (Monday, January 29, 2018 11:49:32 AM)
Kristaps Porzingis, unlike the front office, isn’t so concerned about long-term assets.
[NYDN] Joakim Noah not at practice, out vs. Nets as future now uncertain (Monday, January 29, 2018 9:22:55 AM)
Joakim Noah, who was reportedly upset over his playing time, was not at Knicks practice on Monday morning.
[NYTimes] Blake Griffin Headed to Pistons in Trade With Clippers (Tuesday, January 30, 2018 3:00:37 AM)
The Clippers will receive Tobias Harris, Avery Bradley, Boban Marjanovic and two draft picks in the deal.
[NYTimes] Argument with Hornacek Led to Noah’s Leave From Knicks (Monday, January 29, 2018 6:44:04 PM)
The Knicks and Noah agreed to a cooling-off period after an emotional exchange with Coach Jeff Hornacek.
(Monday, January 29, 2018 3:32:05 PM)
If Noah has played his final game in a Knicks uniform, how could New York lessen the burden of the $56 million still owed to the former Defensive Player of the Year?
(Monday, January 29, 2018 3:17:03 PM)
Kristaps Porzingis wants the Knicks in the playoffs: The forward said he would prefer if the team added experienced talent at the trade deadline — instead of tanking for the draft — and make the postseason.
(Monday, January 29, 2018 1:44:32 PM)
Sources tell ESPN that there have been no buyout talks between the New York Knicks and Joakim Noah despite a growing disconnect between the team and the center who has played in just seven games this season.
[SNY Knicks] GEICO SportsNite: Knicks aim to part ways with Noah (Monday, January 29, 2018 11:34:57 PM)
As the trade deadline approaches, Knicks All-Star forward Kristaps Porzingis shares what he believes the Knicks’ mindset should be.
[SNY Knicks] Porzingis focused on Knicks’ playoff chances this year, not being sellers (Monday, January 29, 2018 5:36:00 PM)
Amid reports that other teams believe the Knicks should be sellers as the NBA trade deadline nears, forward Kristaps Porzingis said he is focused on leading the current group of players to the postseason.
[SNY Knicks] Is buying out Joakim Noah worth it for the Knicks? (Monday, January 29, 2018 3:00:50 PM)
The Knicks are reportedly exploring ways to part with C Joakim Noah following his heated argument with head coach Jeff Hornacek at practice last week.
[SNY Knicks] Kanter probable for Tuesday’s game after lacerating lip (Monday, January 29, 2018 2:55:24 PM)
Kanter showed off the injury on Twitter.
[SNY Knicks] The Knicks should be sellers at the trade deadline (Monday, January 29, 2018 10:05:58 AM)
With the NBA trade deadline a few days away, many teams are pondering whether or not they should buy or sell including the Knicks.
(Monday, January 29, 2018 6:24:40 PM)
There has been speculation a playoff-bound team may have interest in veteran Knicks guard Jarrett Jack and seek his services at the trade deadline, especially with the Knicks developing rookie Frank Ntilikina and adding Trey Burke, a 25-year-old former lottery pick. Jack hopes it doesn’t happen, even if it means a trip to the postseason…
(Monday, January 29, 2018 5:47:29 PM)
Forget bragging rights. The Nets have already lost that battle. Tuesday night is about saving face, trying to avoid a season sweep at the hands of the rival Knicks. “You go around anywhere, everybody’s always asking when are you going to beat the Knicks,” forward Quincy Acy said Monday following practice. “Or can you beat…
(Monday, January 29, 2018 4:00:38 PM)
To many on the outside looking in, the Knicks should be sellers at the NBA trading deadline. But to some on the inside, including All-Star Kristaps Porzingis, the Knicks should be buyers and try for the team’s first playoff spot since 2013. “Of course,” Porzingis said, when asked if it is his wish the Knicks…
(Monday, January 29, 2018 3:08:11 PM)
It’s time for Steve Mills and Scott Perry to use their skills. They have to figure out some way to shed Joakim Noah from the Knicks without costing anything tangible beside money. It’s time for Noah to go. The 6-foot-11 center wasn’t at Knicks practice on Monday, but created more of a fuss than any…
(Monday, January 29, 2018 1:30:00 PM)
The Knicks players had long since left the court Monday in Tarrytown. Coach Jeff Hornacek discussed topics ranging from his former coach Jerry Sloan, ex-Knicks and Suns executive Al Bianchi, plus famed NBA fights, both verbal and physical, through the years. Hornacek was summoned for an organizational meeting. No one provided details on what the…
(Monday, January 29, 2018 9:00:15 AM)
He hasn’t been able to show it on the court, but Joakim Noah still has fight in him. The veteran forward and Knicks head coach Jeff Hornacek had at least one heated argument that led to Noah’s indefinite leave, according to a Monday New York Times report. The Knicks announced the 32-year-old was leaving the…
64 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.01.30)”
Re: the Blake trade – I don’t have anything that hasn’t been said in yesterday’s thread already. Just an awful move by SVG to make a team whose ceiling is the 5 or 6 seed in a bad conference. This deal will hamstring their cap for years, prevent them from ever really rebuilding over that time, for very little reward. Like someone else said, this is like watching the 2001-2016 Knicks from the outside. Trade for oft-injured physically declining Big Star Player, trade away young improving players + future picks. Just brutal.
I mean, by several measures (WS/48 – both 0.130 range, RPM – Tobias 1.54, Blake 1.24) Harris and Blake are equally valuable players. BPM likes Blake better but at what cost?
Schematically I’m not clear on what SVG has planned either. He’s always been a 1-5 PNR spread the floor guy with Ryan Anderson / Tobias / Ilyasova etc. at stretch 4. Is he going to play Blake at point forward and run 4-5 PNR? Then surround Blake and Drummond with Langston, Kennard, and Bullock as shooters? That might be semi-interesting. Ish Smith is basically useless without the ball in his hands, and Reggie Jackson sucks.
I think it was me. But yeah, I can’t wrap my head around the deal. I guess SVG is going to be ousted from Detroit in less than a year, anyway. So, I guess, thanks Phil for not having been Doc or SVG?
Regarding Noah, the team needs to either get back into good graces and keep him around (this might require a little more playing time- he can still D and rebound) or just waive him and accept 2.5 more years of dead money (but with the extra roster spot to secure and develop a new player).
Noah is never going to play minutes for the Knicks. He is a dead roster spot. But the Knicks won’t do anything of value with that roster spot anyway. What we do with him is irrelevant.
KP wants to make the playoffs. I understand. He wants some playoff experience. How many times did he mail in games this year? Anyhow, with 32 games to go, the Knicks would need to go 20-12 to end up with a winning record. The Knicks are 3.5 behind a strong, young 76’ers team for the 8th spot. It ain’t happening unless we add Steph Curry or LeBron James. Best to tank.
I would settle for just a benign no-damage-done trade deadline — meaning even if we don’t trade KOQ and Courtney Lee, at least let’s not trade draft picks or Frank or whoever in search of the next slightly above average overpaid player.
Like someone (Stratomatic?) said, we can be buyers or sellers but we have to win the trade. If we get better, great, but it should be because we took advantage of a situation as opposed to us being the desperate party. I’d rather be a seller but I’d settle for just winning the trade.
I don’t care for what KP says as long as he’s not a true cornerstone. When he’ll be that, let’s hear what he has to say, but until then who cares. We’re already going to pay him too much.
@6 – the actual quote was basically taken out of context. He basically said sure i’d love to get some playoff experience but we’ll see what happens. What is he supposed to say? Let’s trade all my buddies and get draft picks instead?
I’m an advocate of fighting for a playoff spot and getting playoff experience because I think it’s part of the development process all players have to go through to reach their peak and eventually contend. The sooner you go through it, the quicker you will develop. All that said, it seems rather hopeless at this point. IMO, we should be sellers. But like Frank said, I don’t want to be desperate sellers. We have to win the long term deal. Just getting crap picks is not really winning if the probability is greater that we aren’t going to get players as good as we are giving up.
If all anyone will give us for O’Quinn is some 2nd round pick and filler, I’d just as soon re-sign him on a fair deal, buy out Noah, keep KOQ around, and worry about the C position later. We can always make moves later in the off season.
I feel the same way about Lee. I like Lee. We all agree he’s not going to be around when the team is peaking. So he can be moved. But if all we are getting offered is trash, I’d rather just keep him and eventually get that space back in a couple of years than just give him away. Maybe there will be an opportunity for a trade later.
There’s no upside to panic selling. Once we are more or less clearly eliminated (which could come as early as a week from now if we lose tonight and then lose the next 3), it will be much easier to start reducing the minutes of veterans and playing Willy, Dotson, and guys like that much more.
No no, KP said what he was supposed to say. I’m just advocating not to listen.
I think KP getting embarrassed by Marcus Smart on National TV 4 times in a row would actually be bad for his development.
5 games to the trade deadline,
if the players play to their skills (as they must do)
and Hornacek doesn’t change rotations
I’ll assume we’ll go 2-3 (BRK and ATL) maybe even 3-2 (home game vs MILW), but I don’t think the perspective must change:
Perry please trade smart (without the capital “S”)
If there were no downside to keeping vets, sure keep ’em. But they play at the expense of youth (see: Jack vs Ntilikina, Willy vs O’Quinn, etc), and more importantly, they give you empty wins. Wins are good when they come from talent likely to help in your window. Lee and Jack are not going to play meaningful minutes in our hypothetical window.
We’d be better off without them, so shit for Lee sounds good to me.
But actually I wouldn’t mind having Marcus Smart on the team.
Ugh! Wall out for 6 weeks.
There is a downside to losing trades just to get rid of vets. Your team keeps getting worse and what you get in return (regardless of whether it’s a young player or a pick) does not fill the gap. The idea is to trade the vet and get better long term. To do that, you have to find a partner that willing to sacrifice a little over the long term to get better now (win now mode). We are on the flip side of that. We would be sacrificing little in the short term to be better in the long term.
If we keep some vets, in a couple of weeks we’ll probably be KO’d and then the vets can sit without creating the kind of disruption and headlines we are getting from Noah.
Agree about losing trades. But I’m not talking about taking on a bad long term contract to get rid of a vet. If all we can get is a bad one or two year contract with a pick or two, I’d take it. Chances are, we won’t win any trades, but I’d take anything positive that doesn’t hamper us long term.
The wins are more damaging to me than losing a trade.
Yeah people are giving KP heat for saying he wants to make the playoffs when not even a few weeks ago people were calling him soft for an off handed remark about being tired after a back to back couple of tough losses. What do people want from this guy?
Of course he wants to make the playoffs. But if you read the entire quote he seems to have a really good understanding of where the team is. He also said he did not want Perry to make bad moves. So sure, if he can get Kemba for nothing then I’m sure he’d be excited but he knows we’re not there yet.
Cash in on Drummond by… playing him? Yeah, that’s a smart move.
TRB% 1st
DRB% 2nd
ORB% 2nd
VORP 5th
BPM 7th
DRtg 1st
It’s funny how there are calls to trade Drummond now that they have their “building block” in Blake Griffin. It’s like living in Wisconsin in January and leasing a Maserati convertible: “Okay, now what do I do with my AWD pickup with the studded tires? Guess I ought to trade it in.”
Regarding Noah…in the words of the Great Enes Kanter I think we just gotta. “take that L son.”
Buy him out. I know it still counts against the cap but we’d open up the roster spot and maybe we’d get him to agree to less than the full amount but he’s owed. Cause otherwise he’s just gonna sit at home for two more years and I doubt he’d want that.
Noah was a Phil mistake. The worst thing we could do would be to compound it by stretching him or trading him with picks and youth to get rid of him. Just take the L. Use the last roster spot for anothe d league call up. I thought Noah might become useful after the trade deadline if we traded KQ but honestly it might be best for everyone to just move on. Two years when his cap space opens up is about when we should spend on a nice FA anyways. Until then we aren’t ready.
Wonder if Wiz would be interested in Jack. Low-cost, veteran pg to hold down the fort while Wall is out. Would clear room for Frank/Trey to ta(nk)ke over. Not sure what they have to offer though.
This is how I think about it.
Let’s say the Knicks are a 35 win team now. Let’s say they get rid of a few vets that were worth about 10 wins in total. Let’s say they get back end of the bench filler (worth about 2 wins), a couple of trash 2nd rounders, and move up 2-3 positions in the draft.
Next year they will go into the season as a 27 win team, with 2 extra 2nd rounders, a player that was picked 3 positions higher, and trash filler.
The 2 extra 2nd rounders are unlikely to get the team back those 8 wins. Many 2nd round picks don’t even make the NBA. The difference in the 1st round pick could matter a lot, but it would be luck. Most of the time you can barely tell the difference between the 10th and 13th pick. Teams are mostly selecting based on need at that stage. The results won’t be random, but they’ll be close.
What you want do to is get back almost as many wins as you are giving up, but the players should be younger, the picks have to have a very good chance of producing a player that is equal or better than the player(s) you gave up, or the cap space has to come back quicker and be more valuable so you can replace what you lost with more wins.
That’s how you make progress.
You have to get back more wins than you are giving up. The only thing that’s different here is the timing of the wins. Maybe we’ll win 2-3 less games this year, but 2-3 more games next year and so on.
Out of curiosity, I checked the Pistons and Clippers fan blogs. I was a little surprised to see that it seems like most Pistons fans think that they “won” the trade and most Clippers fans are upset because they “lost” the trade.
By the way, I’m against trading Hernangomez until they know whether Kanter and O’Quinn are opting out and, if so, if they are going to be re-signed.
Sometimes when I think about how incompetent this franchise is, I look at John Wall’s contract, which includes a $46.8M player option when he’s 32, and then I don’t feel so bad.
I would give Jarret Jack to Washington for a 2022 conditional 2nd round pick.
I didn’t sleep well last night. I’d give up Jack for a cafe mocha. (nothing personal because I like him)
It will be interesting to see how the Wizards play the trade deadline. Jack would be a decent stopgap for them. Although they can grab Sessions for nothing.
I would dress up as Santa Claus, deliver a gift-wrapped Jarrett Jack to the doorstep of Capital One Arena, and offer the Wizards profuse apologies for not having gotten him there in time for Christmas.
And I’m Jewish.
Not to mention that the Maserati came with a troublesome carfax report…
Unless we decide to trade O’Quinn, who is walking at the end of the season, for an unproductive player on a multi-year deal there is no way to lose that trade. O’Quinn-a very good player who I enjoy rooting for-is useless to the Knicks right now. We’re not making the playoffs. Even if you trade him for a low second round pick that’s better than what you get when he chooses free agency.
Strat:
If you’re betting on horses, and the horse you picked is losing, and the bookie says “you can pick up a new horse next time for free if you give up on your losing horse right now,” you do it.
We lost this season, it’s over. If the goal is to improve year by year, and you currently suck right now, you value future assets over veteran assets. If someone told me, trade Lee, and you will end up choosing 3 picks ahead according to your scenario, I DO IT EVERY TIME, AND TRY TO DO IT MORE. It isn’t ‘getting back more wins,’ it’s ‘getting back more probability of future success than right now.’
looks like mirotic to the pels for asik and a 1st….
At least the Bulls will start losing again.
Or maybe that’s bad. I haven’t been paying close attention.
Well the good news is first round picks are flying around like hot cakes.
The bad news is we’re running out of buyers who have them. This is why you need to act fast.
that must have been a really fun conversation to have with Doc, and, telling him Blake was being traded…can’t imagine he’ll start the next season as their coach…
man, i just wish it had been jerry west dolan had become enamored with instead of phil…what an amazing executive west has been for so many years…
starting to wonder if we’ll make any moves at all…would be great if we could get over on someone in a trade – but, just as likely we’d end up with the worst of any trade we make…
count me in as one of the folks whom think we mishandled the whole noah thing – especially pulling him during garbage time – we have enough ex-players on our coaching staff to realize that was a douche move…
WojDefusal
spoke to soon on the deal… just a rumor ….
Get on the phone!!!!
Let’s get that 1st from New Orleans
it’ll be interesting to see who stays longer in LA – doc or austin rivers…gotta imagine the clips are doing everything they can to get austin, and the 12 million they owe him next season, out of there as quickly as possible…
Lee & O’Quinn for Asik, Ajinca, and that 1st
Enes Kanter for Cousins’ expiring and that 1st
Either of these strike me as better than Mirotic.
I think we’ve all learned at this point that if doesn’t come from Woj it ain’t true.
The guy must have a direct line to every GM in the NBA, amazing.
Davis has told the Pels he doesn’t want to be a center. Mirotic would lock him in as the center. Come on Pels, trade for Kanter!
Honestly, I’m not really sure about Drummond. Those numbers put him in DJ’s and last year’s Whiteside stratosphere. But I kinda feel like with Drummond- the numbers are great, but he hasn’t really effected the game in the way those numbers suggest. I could be wrong though. In any case, Blake’s deal is an albatross and Detroit shouldn’t want to pay them both. Of the remaining trade options, Drummond can bring them back real assets. Now, if one or both of them play great ball together and stay healthy, that’s a different story. Who knows? Maybe SVG can turn around and flip Blake to Cleveland for Love. Nevertheless, Drummond IS playing really well. I’m torn on it, but you’ll get no argument from me on how good Drummond has been.
howdy totes – been meaning to ask – how are you feeling?
Yeah, but if you look at all of the available–
Um, ok.
The Pistons have a godawful roster. It’s a miracle that they’re 22-26, and most of that success is on Drummond.
I agree on the horses. Can I have that deal? 🙂
Humor me for a moment and pretend my following estimates are correct. I don’t know the correct values. They are just here to illustrate a point.
Let’s say Lee is worth 6 wins
Let’s say picking 3 notches higher in the middle of the lottery is worth .5 wins more.
If you trade Lee for trash worth 2 wins and move up 3 slots you are -6 on Lee, +2 on trash, and +.5 on the improved lottery position. So you are 3.5 games worse the following year.
When both trash and Lee come off the books, you get back less space with the better pick because you have to pay slightly more for it. So the .5 you gained on the pick is offset by paying a few hundred thousand more for it. If my estimate of .5 is too low, it would still be true at 1.0, 1.5 etc..
IMO, the system is generally pretty efficient.
To get better you have to get lucky in the draft, sign players for less than they are worth as free agents, or win trades. If you lose trades to get better picks, you get worse.
The only clear exception is at the top of the draft. The very high positions are worth a lot of wins. So if you can tank few positions like from 7 to 3, the gain on average may be way more wins than you give up.
What if the Wiz, now looking for a PG, came to the Knicks to ask about Burke? Irony!
Actually, they can have Jack for a conditional second round pick in the year 2525…
🙂
Yes, get on the phone with New Orleans!!!
Drummond is an excellent player, I have no doubt about it, but this is New Orleans Michigan version. A superstar with a not-so-star dude who gets called a superstar anyway and horrible depth everywhere else.
They even have Reggie Jackson who’s pretty much Jrue Holiday anyway.
Unless Kennard is ready to be a very good player right now the Pistons are fighting for the 7th seed and a quick exit.
Seems that the NO-CHI trade failed for cap reasons, NO is so close to the limit that they can’t trade absorbing higher contracts that they shell out.
On the Griffin trade, yesterday I wrote asking if SVG’s losing his mind,
24 hours later I see it as a desperate move from a guy that nine months from now will work at ESPN.
This is his 4th year in Detroit and the franchise hasn’t progressed as expected, a very bad thing when you open a new arena and need happy fans.
I hope that this time our management will not do anything close.
I don’t want to trade any kids. We have 5 players born in the 1980’s: Noah, Lee, Thomas, Jack and Beasley. Package them up any way we can and get back a #1. If that’s all we do, it’s great.
Get in there, Knicks!
Geo @44,
Thanks! I’m doin ok. No good days yet..just bad and ok but gettin better.
Jowles @45,
Yes..Troit’s roster is ugly. So what they’ve accomplished thus far can be attributed to Drummond’s effort. Maybe it’s the way the league is trending. I still believe that if you have a great big or great PG, the game is easier. The advanced #’s Drummond’s putting up are nothing short of great. Maybe it’s my old school belief that’s causing me to think that Detroit’s record should be better with Drummond’s effort and a coach like SVG. I remember want to see the Knicks explore a deal for Drummond before the season started. Maybe I’m not giving enough credence to the way the game is trending and minimizing the effect of a great big as opposed to it rewarding great perimeter players
Hard to believe, but if you have a great player, the game is easier.
Hate to say this since I think Stan Van Gundy is a cool guy, but his way of running a team reminds me of Isiah Thomas… just going all in on bringing in veterans with bad contracts (or who are about to get bad contracts) so that he can build… what? A 2nd round playoff team if things go right? Blake Griffin is gonna decline quick. The warning signs are all there. within a season or two, Detroit’s gonna be in cap hell and back out of the playoffs again.
If all you’re concerned about is keeping your job as long as you can, the Griffin trade makes sense. It grabbed them a bunch of attention and brought them a “star.”
i feel like that they would’ve been better off if they just kept their original roster….
jackson… kcp… harris… monroe.. drummond… and kept dinwiddie… i mean it’s not great but it’d be a lot better than what they have now….
instead they devoted immense cap room on josh smith… boban.. leuer… baynes… drafted ellenson… johnson and kennard(he actually looks like an nba player)….
this is why coaches make horrible gm’s… too impatient….
yeah, as a marketing decision it makes some sense. But I mean SVG spent what like 3 years turning down job after job, waiting for the right one. Seems like at least before he joined DET, his focus was on finding a situation where he could succeed, not on being employed and making $$. That makes me question whether in SVG’s mind this is about job preservation.
Drummond is a great rebounder. He is NOT a great player.
The best rebounder in the NBA who has become a pretty efficient scorer and a shockingly good passer-idk he could play on my team
I’m not sold on his scoring quite yet, he’s shooting 62.5% from the line, that could flatten out.
Timmy is the only Knick who knows how to pump fake and then step sideways behind the arc
Drummond has really improved this year offensively, partly bc SVG stopped treating him like a post player and he does a pretty good job as Phil’s fabled pinch post pivot passer. But his defense does keep a lid on his overall value. The Pistons opponents have an EFG% of 55pct when he plays in the last two years and 48.5pct when he doesn’t. Kind of amazing given his physical skills.
KP with a WS48 of .982 so far this game…
I don’t think that he was too picky about his choice of teams. He just wanted to only go where he could be GM as well as coach and the Pistons were the first ones to say yes.