(Friday, January 19, 2018 9:59:56 PM)
This is the dilemma of every Knicks fan with any sense of hope who is always wrestling with an equal appreciation of history: You hear that Kemba Walker is available, that the Charlotte Hornets are thinking of trading the electric guard who cut his basketball teeth in The Bronx, starred at Harlem’s Rice High (RIP,…
(Friday, January 19, 2018 8:29:10 PM)
SALT LAKE CITY — Tim Hardaway Jr. returned to the starting lineup and returned to being a difference-maker. After three games of coming off the bench to preserve his minutes, all resulting in losses, Hardaway started and erupted. He finished with 31 points in 27 minutes as the Knicks knocked out the Jazz 117-115 at…
(Friday, January 19, 2018 3:48:03 PM)
SALT LAKE CITY — New Knicks point guard Trey Burke, back in Utah where he was a celebrated 2013 lottery pick who didn’t pan out, said the Jazz drafting Dante Exum before his second NBA season ruined his psyche. Back at the arena in which he played his first three seasons, Burke reflected on his…
(Friday, January 19, 2018 12:06:04 PM)
SALT LAKE CITY — While the Knicks are in a developmental mode with rookie project point guard Frank Ntilikina as one of the centerpieces of their rebuilding plan, an All-Star point guard hailing from New York City — Kemba Walker — has come on the trade market. The Hornets, faced with luxury-tax issues, want to…
(Friday, January 19, 2018 10:25:31 AM)
SALT LAKE CITY – Jeff Hornacek said he’s not being judged by a won-loss record, reiterating president Steve Mills’ offseason theme that making the playoffs is not the ultimate priority for the 2017-18 season. In a similar message he made on Martin Luther King Day, Hornacek said the playoff talk has come more from players…
(Friday, January 19, 2018 9:18:07 AM)
The NBA announced 10 “starters” for its 2018 All-Star Game on Thursday, players who earned the nod through a combination of fan, player and media voting. None of the 10 choices were particularly controversial, and all 10 would certainly be named as reserves for the game had they not been deemed starters. The NBA revealed…
(Saturday, January 20, 2018 2:50:55 AM)
SALT LAKE CITY — Jeff Hornacek was nervous. Not about his job security, but about this game.
(Friday, January 19, 2018 9:07:09 PM)
SALT LAKE CITY — Even though Kristaps Porzingis wasn’t voted a starter in next month’s All-Star Game, it mattered to him that the NBA players voted him third among Eastern Conference frontcourt players.
(Friday, January 19, 2018 8:41:31 PM)
SALT LAKE CITY — Courtney Lee maintains that he didn’t direct “inappropriate language” at Memphis’ Dillon Brooks on Wednesday night.
(Friday, January 19, 2018 7:58:24 PM)
SALT LAKE CITY — Knicks president Steve Mills and coach Jeff Hornacek left the arena floor together after Friday’s shootaround and had a private conversation outside the visiting locker room.
(Friday, January 19, 2018 8:53:38 PM)
It’s safe to say Kristaps Porzingis feels the fans and media were wrong for not voting him as an All-Star starter.
(Friday, January 19, 2018 8:16:46 PM)
For Jeff Hornacek, a Friday night in Utah represented another return to the basketball city where he’s most beloved.
(Friday, January 19, 2018 10:13:48 AM)
As speculation about Jeff Hornacek’s job security ramps up, the coach said that he shouldn’t be judged on the team’s recent skid.
(Friday, January 19, 2018 4:46:29 PM)
The Knicks’ Kristaps Porzingis said he should be the starting forward in the NBA All-Star Game over 76ers forward Joel Embiid, based on player voting.
(Friday, January 19, 2018 10:50:32 PM)
Trey Burke says he wasn’t totally focused on basketball while in Utah, citing distractions as why it didn’t work out after the Jazz drafted him 9th overall in 2013.
(Friday, January 19, 2018 8:55:14 PM)
According to a report, the Hornets ‘would like to’ open negotiations with the Knicks for Kemba Walker.
(Friday, January 19, 2018 8:20:40 PM)
The Knicks take on the Jazz in Utah at 10:30 p.m. on Friday night.
(Friday, January 19, 2018 6:45:20 PM)
Kristaps Porzingis takes solace in the fact that the players voted for him over Joel Embiid to start in the All-Star game.
(Friday, January 19, 2018 8:32:35 AM)
Center Enes Kanter reiterated his will to retire a New York Knick in an interview with ESPN’s Ian Begley.
(Saturday, January 20, 2018 2:58:01 AM)
The team seems willing to give up some veteran players to better position itself for a title run.
(Friday, January 19, 2018 7:22:35 PM)
Don’t order that LeBron James Lakers jersey just yet.
81 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.01.20)”
Just woke up. Tough win. Really need to stop doing that.
Ok, hear me out. I think I can talk myself into an offer for Walker.
We aren’t bad enough to get a game changing pick this year. Walker is still in his early prime and comes off the books after next year so gives us some flex and time to evaluate what we have.
To be clear – I’m saying make an offer, not give up the farm.
I’d offer the pick, protected top 12 and becoming 2 2nds this year if the protection kicks in, with Kanter, KOQ and Doug McD, for Kemba and MKG.
They get relief and picks and give up a contract. We get an All star point guard, another under-25 piece,keep Frank, protect the pick and otherwise give up players who all might leave in the summer anyway. If they want appreciably more, hang up and move on
Kemba Walker is not that good. If he was, his team would be doing better. He’s a shoot-first, no-D undersized combo guard playing PG. He’s a career 35% 3-pt shooter. I’m from the Bronx, but would prefer to root for him from afar. Hard pass, especially since Burke looks like he can play the Kemba role reasonably well at a fraction of the cost.
I think Charlotte would rather dump Batum than MKG, as his contract is truly an abomination… I liked him a lot before he forgot how to shoot, or stay on the court for that matter, but now he’s about as terrible as any contract not attached to Chandler Parsons.
I just feel that if this team does trade for Kemba, they’ll eventually just re-sign him for the max and we’ll be locked into a core of Walker, Hardaway Jr and Porzingis for the next 4 years with no flexibility at all, and that’s a terrible idea to me.
Perfect time to send Frank down to the G-League to work on his putrid offensive game and see what Burke can do with his minutes. He can’t suck any worse than Frank has lately (negative game scores in 7 of his last 10 games.)
I want nothing to do with Kemba Walker and everything to do with MKG. He gives us the ability to play KP at the 5 and not lose too much on the glass.
@4 yeah, that Batum contract is god-awful, what were the Hornets thinking? I would stay away from Charlotte unless they make some kind of stupid Isiah-like offer. MKG is a terrible offensive player, I’d rather roll with Lance at that spot. Marvin Williams is not my cup of tea either, he doesn’t rebound, pass or defend, which is not what you look for in a low-usage relatively efficient scorer at the PF spot.
@6 MKG can board pretty well for a SF but he’s a complete cipher on O otherwise. SFs that can’t shoot are not my thing, not in today’s NBA.
Wanting Lance Thomas over literally anybody but JR Smith’s brother is an indictment on one’s ability to evaluate basketball talent. You don’t want Lance Thomas, who has a lower eFG% and TS% than MKG. MKG can’t shoot threes but he won’t be on the floor for 27 minutes and the most meaningful thing that he does is get 3 fouls. Lance Thomas is the definition of burning minutes.
MKG right now is a buy low candidate for a guy who is the substitute teacher version of Shawn Marion. You’re talking about a guy who is a career average 8.3 rebounds/36, plays great defense, and doesn’t need plays called for him. I’d offer O’Quinn, McDermott, and Lance Thomas and see if they bite. Two expiring contracts and a tank specialist.
@8, I’d want MKG to start him at the 3 but really I’d play him with KP in the front court at the 4 and the 5. A defensive line up with Frank, KP, and MKG would stiffle teams. All we’d need to really balance that line up out would be TH2 and an elite level shooter.
We’re at least two years away from contention,
play the youngs, slowly clear the books,
don’t take bad contracts, don’t trade just for the sake of it,
don’t overpay, don’t take other teams’ mistakes,
trade for picks, trade for picks, trade for picks,
scout G-League and Europe for lottery tickets.
When I said two years away from contention I mean “serious contention”, in this Eastern Conference only based on experience and “knowledge of teammates” this could be a playoff team next year.
I think Trey Burke, Frank Ntilikina, MKG, TH2, Kanter, Hernangomez, and KP is a great group of guys to go forward with. Timmy Jr is developing into an above average offensive threat, MKG is already a great defender and those two guys give us positional versatility as they can play the 2/3 and 3/4. You’re essentially putting your franchise in the hands of KP gaining and keeping weight/stamina and Frank’s ability to shoot, but dammit I’m ready to commit to a group that won’t be carried by Courtney Lee, Michael Beasley, and Jarret Jack.
You know..I could talk myself into a trade for Walker as well..but the conversation ends once Ntilikina is requested. Given that they’d want to dump salary as well, I don’t know that I’d give up our pick this year unless that trade makes us an instant playoff team- IE: Batum. Even then it would be hard to give up this year’s 1st. Maybe a future top 10 protected 1st. Oh, and they’d hafta take Lance at the very least- better if they take Lee and give up a 2nd.
Kemba does add a much needed dimension, and for that he has value to us. His contract is reasonable as well. Sitting here thinking of a Whomever Coach Starts At Center/KP/THJ/Ntilikina/Walker starting 5 brings the intrigue way up for me. I think that would be a tough unit to deploy with all the youth we’d still have on the bench. But would Jordan and company go for it? Probably not. He LOVES to kill the Knicks.
Two years away from contention? It is to laugh.
The senseless accumulation of empty calorie wins (i.e. the one last night) continues to degrade the only hope the Ixnays may have had of becoming a serious playah in the East. Absent the (admittedly remote) possibility of a high draft pick who might one day become a transcendent talent, there is absolutely no one currently on this roster who will move the needle much. Shit be bleak.
And it will only get bleaker once the ink is dry on Kristaps “2 Rebounds” Bargnani’s impending max contract.
I don’t think there’s much to discuss about strategy at all after @11. That’s exactly what we should be doing. We are going to need a little luck in the draft and our cap space once all the older players all come off the books to bring in another legit all star or two. No mistakes between now and then. Hard NO to Kemba.
One quick point about KP’s rebounding. I think some of it is what I would call mental or habit. He’s so used to deferring to Kanter or whoever is playing the 5 and so used to being on the perimeter, when he’s at the 5, he just stands around expecting one of his teammates to get the rebound. He has to learn to be more aggressive when he’s at the 5. I’m not saying being aggressive will turn him into a 10 per 36 rebounder. He still lacks the body and hand strength and doesn’t have a nose for the ball, but he’d have fewer 2-5 rebound nights if he was actually trying. Someone has to smack him in the head and tell him it’s his job to get rebounds when he’s playing the 5. He doesn’t seem to know it.
@15 I said “at least 2 years”, could be 3,4,5… My point is that we’re not in a hurry to get “the right” player for the Finals (a là Cavs), so there’s no need to do something stupid just to do it.
MKG is not a buy-low candidate at $13 million per for the next 2.5 years, and anyone who takes on that contract without a significant sweetener is dumb, and will be looking to dump him just like Charlotte would be happy to dump him now. Lance sucks, but he has one guaranteed year left on his smaller shitty contract @ $7.5 mill. No one is knocking down Charlotte’s door for MKG and for good reason: he absolutely sucks on the offensive end at a traditional scoring position and isn’t worth nearly what he’s getting paid.
The Knicks record with a starting lineup of Kanter, KP, THJ, Lee, and Jack is something like 12-3 or 12-4. We have played a LOT of games with either THJ, KP, or Kanter out.
1. Lee is traded, we move THJ to SG where he belongs, and he inches forward again.
2. KP takes anther small step forward next year
3. Frank comes back next year, filled out, a bit/stronger, and has improved his handle and outside shot a little. He wins the starting job from Burke.
4. We either draft or trade for a legitimate starting SF (using Lee, O’Quinn, or next year’s pick ).
5. Willy wins the starting job from Kanter.
With the improvement I am projecting I think that’s a playoff team next year with enough youth to still get a lot better while we wait for some cap space to bring in another all star or get lucky in the draft. It’s not hopeless. You need time and some luck to become a serious contender. A couple of players have to break out a little and we have to add solid players into the gaping holes.
Sure, whatever you say.
Thankfully, I doubt that current Knicks management is interested in MKG at that price and Charlotte will have to pawn him off on someone else.
If we eventually play KP at the 5 more often, MKG is the kind of player you would want to pair him with. He’s a defender that can rebound. That’s what you need with KP at the 5. At one point I thought he was going to become a star player, but he never really developed after the injuries. So at this point I’d have to say “no” at the price. I don’t think he’d a bad piece to have on this team if he was cheaper. It’s the price that’s a problem.
If a .525 TS% with an eFG at .494 is absolutely sucking to you from a defensive specialist, then you have a very high standard offensively. You sound like a guy who hasn’t watched MKG play basketball, and he doesn’t suck on offense unless you equate the inability to shoot threes as sucking. He can shoot from the mid range, he can post up smaller defenders, and he’s a threat to score in transition because he’s a plus athlete. He absolutely has value and would make the Knicks a better team. In a world where Kent Bazemore makes $17M and Lance Thomas makes $7M, there’s no way you’re convincing me MKG doesn’t deserve his current salary.
It’s also possible that we will be looking to land a dynamic SF in this year’s draft. Hopefully we find a taker for Kanter, get assets for O’Quinn and Lee, ditch Beasley and Jack, and play KP,TH2, Willy, Dotson, Frank, Baker, Burke, McDermott, any young pieces we get back in trades, and unfortunately resign ourselves to letting Lance and Noah eat up cap until their contracts expire.
in the “trade for picks” line, I’d add, “or any young interesting player”. For example, if Osman could be gotten from Cleveland, you grab him. Etc.
I think there is a trade with Charlotte that can be beneficial but not giving up our pick. Our cap space is pretty shot with Noah, THJ, and KP’s impending deal that we could just go all in on no cap space.
Something along the lines of:
Lee, Thomas, O’Quinn to Cleveland
Shumpert, Thomas, Kanter to Charlotte
Batum, MKG, Walker, Osman to NY
No picks moved except maybe the Chicago pick to Charlotte.
That trade gets Charlotte a lot of future cap space (especially since Shumpert and Kanter could opt out), improves Cleveland without costing them a pick and gets us a lot of quality, although grossly overpaid players.
You don’t make a very convincing case by bringing up two guys that the entire world thinks are grossly overpaid. But whatever, whether MKG deserves it or not, he does not represent that level of value to the current Knicks. Personally, I don’t want to pay $13 mill of cap space to a SF with no ability to hit 3’s. I’d rather try to find a value guy (ideally someone like Trevor Ariza) as a stopgap until a young draft pick develops.
I agree that the price is the problem. At $7.5 mill, MKG would be great value, but then Charlotte probably wouldn’t be looking to dump him. But I don’t think that KP is gonna play the 5 anytime soon, and if he does, it’s even more important to find a guy who can hit 3’s, as he’ll be playing inside more.
imo, he’s not good enough to be worth locking up that much salary for 3 more years.
Here’s a better way to ask the question.
Is he the guy you want to go to war with long term as your starting SF that can play some PF with KP?
I think we have to fill that SF slot with an ALL STAR somehow. We can throw cheaper players and short term contracts into that slot for a couple of years while we search for what we need. That’s kind of what Phil was doing with players like Afflalo, Derrick Williams etc.. There was never any chance those guys were going to be our long term solution.
We have to use cap space and other means to fill it with guys that are place holders while we try to find the permanent solution via draft, FA, or trade.
If you could make the case that he’d be easy to trade later at 13m, then I wouldn’t have much of a problem with it. But that doesn’t seem to be the case.
@24 I totally agree on the young(s) player(s)
Bye the way, We hate Lance Thomas but we want a SF that shot 7-36 from three in 320 games at a double price, because he could post up and shot midrange, just as our beloved 7’4 shooting guard do. 🙂
A lot of contracts signed in the summer of 2016 are shit (Bazemore, MKG, Batum, Turner, Mozgov, Deng, NOAH…), we made our mistakes why add to those?
If Kemba, MKG and Batum are so good why did Charlotte stink in the last two years?
Making trades that should improve a 32 win roster to 34 wins is a big part of what we do here.
I would like MKG at a Lance like contract, but he’s overpaid for a guy who has an injury history and literally can’t shoot threes. I would like Kemba for free, but he’s going to cost picks and demand a max or near max contract, so no. Let’s just not touch Charlotte at all unless they offer first rounders please.
KP’s rebounding problem is that he has a high center of gravity, a low motor, weak hands, and he gets thrown around like a rag doll. He’s a long way away from improving in that regard. His best “quick fix” would be to get the kind of tip-out rebounds that Chandler used to excel at, and to study film of a physically similar good rebounder like a young Pau Gasol. KP seems to have major fast-twitch issues right now, which might explain why he gets so many rebounds taken away from him even when he seems to have good position.
We could literally just put Dotson at sf and get similar production to MKG, I’m guessing.
I don’t want anything Charlotte has, but you know we’re trading for Kemba… it’s the fate of this franchise to always make dumb, starry-eyed pick ups just like that.
Mark my words and buckle up.
I think MKG represents a compromise. He’s a combo forward that leaves all of the P&R opportunities to KP, can score on back cuts and in transition, and is an off season away from hitting the right corner 3 at a respectable enough rate. He would let KP do what he does best; block shots, dunk the ball, and shoot 3s. He’s also only 25 in September so his best basketball is still likely ahead of him. So he’s not Robert Covington, and that hurts the spacing.
I imagine a closing line up of Burke, Ntilikina, Hardaway, MKG, and KP being really good. Burke (who really just represents a guard who can get into the paint, ideally we’d find a replacement for him like Jalen Brunson), runs P&R/P&P with a stronger KP. If that doesn’t work, you have Tim Hardaway Jr to create an opportunity for himself and Frank Ntilikina as a shooting threat with the court vision to make the right pass. MKG can stand in his corner and hit an open jumper or he can thrive off back cut dunk opportunities/offensive rebounding. Defensively, you put MKG on your best wing defender, Ntilikina on the guard to stop penetration, and KP is in the paint to alter shots. I think it’s a team that wins a lot of games and of course I’d be banking on KP and Frank Ntilikina becoming two way players. I guess I’m crazy for thinking it’s possible, but in today’s NBA teams are playing with centers that can’t shoot. Having KP’s shooting at the 5 gives us a unique opportunity to play a guy like MKG.
The New Math:
7 feet + 3 inches = 2 rebounds
Good point about the 2016 offseason. IIRC, the Mozgov deal was a stunner that came very early on and likely skewed the whole landscape. Too many teams with too much cap space, and lots of mistakes were made. I mean, doesn’t Batum make almost twice as much as Lee? I blame the Lakers!
You know, I like MKG up to a point, and would like to get him for a reasonable deal, but that would involve the Knicks moving out a Lee or Noah contract and NOT giving back any young player or first round pick in the deal. Charlotte would have none of it, though, nor should they. Having MKG and McD share the 3 might be interesting.
As of now, reports are that Charlotte wants to dump a bad contract and get back a first round pick and/or good young player, with Kemba Walker as the carrot.
There is absolutely no evidence that MKG is “an off season away from hitting the right corner 3 at a respectable enough rate.” It’s a ridiculous statement to make. He has never hit more than 3 treys in a year, and is 0-2 this year. He’s had 6 off-seasons to work on that shot. If it happens, it would be against very steep odds. If you acquire him, the assumption has to be that he will not be able to shoot 3’s from the corner or anywhere else, and that anything you get from 3 is an unexpected cherry on top.
Woj piece on the Hornets starts with these exact words:
“Overloaded with bad contracts and untradeable assets”
Also funny: we forgot Howard!
Man, I’d be thrilled if we got Mikal Bridges in this year’s draft.
Yes. This is the knicks best path to the promised land, just the way Stratomatic has laid it out.
I’m speaking from my own (albeit brief) film evaluation of MKG where he’s knocking down jumpshots from just inside the right corner 3. One more off season and he should be able to shoot that specific shot consistently.
And apparently the Hornets are interested in engaging the Knicks in a Kemba Walker deal lol. If it’s anything other than “here, take Kemba Walker and one of our other bad deals for a collection of expiring contracts” then I don’t want to be bothered.
That’s the only trade I’m willing to make, and they can have a 2nd round pick if they ask nicely. This is a good chance to see if Mills/Perry is a competent group or if they’re bogus.
I’m content being in the top 12 at the least if Mikal if gonna be there for us. With Timmy back we might be too good for the 6th spot.
The one good thing about dealing with Charlotte is that there almost as stupid as we are.
Knicks should be patient and try to get someone of Kemba’s quality at SF, letting TH2 play the 2.
Add a high quality PG to the mix and you have a team that can compete with anyone in the East. These opportunities will become available.
Kemba Walker is not that good. If he was, his team would be doing better.
It’s hard to imagine a trade for Kemba that would make sense for us. That aside, a strong argument can be made that Kemba is being underrated here. At a minimum, the above angle is not good evidence since Charlotte has actually been an excellent team (+5.5/100) with Kemba on the floor this year (and each of the prior two years). The nature of stats today is that we’re often either stuck with summary advance stats that are inherently overgeneralized/opaque or very narrow constituent stats like TS%. The case I want to make is solely about Kemba’s offensive efficiency as a scorer. I’ll compare him to Dwight Howard’s scoring efficiency this year because the comparison is interesting.
Both guys have average TS% and so average points per shot (PPS) of around 1.1. I’m going to ignore some typical adjustments that would, in this case, favor Kemba. For example, how much (if at all) more useful is it to have average efficiency amid high usage? Instead I just want to focus on turnovers and how sharply they can affect a typical TS% comparison.
Dwight averages 4.5 TO per 100 shot attempts. Using the same league average logic embedded in PPS, we can subtract the average league TO rates given Dwight’s shooting and assist usage. “Bad Pass” Turnovers average 23% of assists. Dwight gets 2 AST per 100 shots, so we can absolve him of .23*2 = 0.46 AST/100 from his passing. All other (non Bad Pass) TOs average 10% of adjusted shot attempts. Dwight gets 20.5 adjusted shots / 100, so he gets absolved of 2.05 additional TOs. So Dwight’s expected TO/100 is 2.51 compared to 4.5. That means he needs to be penalized for those 2/100 above the average you’d see from a player with his scoring and assist profile. Here’s a simple way to estimate that penalty (cont.)
@38 No, in Stratomatic you trade the players you want from roster to roster without contracts, cap and age concerns… I knew because I just won the Finals with Curry, Leonard, LeBron, Davis and Porzingis as the Knicks’ starting five… 🙂
A turnover is much worse than a missed shot. A missed shot on average has around a 25% chance of generating an offense rebound. If a possession is worth about 1.1 per shot, then a missed loses 75% of that possession or about .83. A turnover loses all of it. Second, turnovers lead to much higher opponent TS% than both made and missed shots. Estimates tend to give about a .2 PPS disadvantage after a turnover, leading to about 1.3 PPS (reminder PPS is not quite the same as PPP). So a TO can be said to cost the full 1.1 PPS plus another .2 defensive disadvantage. This means it is about 1.56X (1.3/.83) worse than a missed shot. So we can ask: what would TS/PPS look like if the player missed 1.56 adjusted shots for every turnover above average?
For Howard, that’s 2.0*1.56=3.12 additional shots. So his new PPS goes from 22.7/20.5 to 22.7/ 23.62 = 0.96. This is well below average and equates to a TS of 48%. In contrast, Kemba averages 7.5 AST per 100 and 2.63 TOS and 25.13 shot attempts. He gets absolved from .23 * 7.5 = 1.73 Bad Pass TOs and .1 * 25.13 = 2.51 other TOs, a total of 4.24. So he generates 4.24 – 2.63 = 1.61 fewer TOs per usage than average. This is as if he missed 1.61 * 1.56 = 2.51 fewer shots. That leads to an adjusted PPS of 27.7/22.6 = 1.22, or a TS of 61%. Suddenly Kemba looks very efficient on high usage and Dwight looks pretty inefficient.
Of course this totally ignores key parts of Dwight’s game like Rebounding and Defense; it’s not meant to be a full comparison (note it also ignores the value of Kemba’s assists despite using assists in the TO calculation). But this is a big deal that I think is easily brushed aside bc it’s hard to integrate TOs with passing and TS%. I think it explains a lot of why Charlotte has for three years been so much better offensively with Kemba on the court, while Dwight’s offensive impact has been less obvious.
ptmilo, even if what you say about Kemba’s on/off stats is correct, that can be misleading as well. It might be that Kemba is significantly better than his backup, or that the starters he plays with are significantly better than the bench players.
Kemba is good value at $12 mill, but not worth giving up a valuable young asset or #1 pick for. I don’t particularly like his game, but wouldn’t cry if he could be had on the right deal, say, Willy, Lance, Ron and Chi’s #2.
Who is this person calling himself Z-man?
Seriously — 1.5% of MKG’s shots have been three-pointers. I had to get to his BBRef page to make sure he was the 6’7″ wing that I remembered him being. I knew the jumper was horrific-looking, but I had no idea he was basically Andre Drummond from deep.
ptmilo, even if what you say about Kemba’s on/off stats is correct, that can be misleading as well. It might be that Kemba is significantly better than his backup, or that the starters he plays with are significantly better than the bench players.
I didn’t reference his on/off differentials, but rather just Charlotte’s results with Kemba playing, i.e. his “on” stats. You had said Kemba Walker is not that good. If he was, his team would be doing better. But in fact Charlotte is very good when Kemba plays. Not compared to the bench, but absolutely. They are +5.5/100 versus opponents — not versus what the bench does — that is a top 4 NBA team. So the bench/starter differential is not relevant. The relevant confounder would just be if his “on” stats were caused by his excellent teammates.
But it doesn’t sound too much like you think he has excellent teammates in this thread. In any case, it’s a strong argument against the idea that “Kemba it not that good because Charlotte is not good.”
Watching that game last night it was very obvious KP needs to get stronger. He was getting pushed around all night. Even the announcers were commenting on how often he falls down after even the smallest bumps by another player. That shouldn’t happen to franchise players.
Lee played very well on both ends. Hopefully some team with a need at 2 guard and a spare first rounder was watching.
I’m warming up to THJR, he looked confident and had a good shooting night from 3 point land.
He even looked engaged on defense. Those 2 missed free throws down the stretch were unfortunate.
Agree with the sentiment above, Trey Burke looks to be able to play the Kemba Walker role at a fraction of the price. At least based on last night, I haven’t seen him play all that much.
Kemba Walker would be the best Knicks PG since, I dunno, Charlie Ward, but isn’t worth what wed probably have to give up and then pay to keep him.
I know what you are saying and mentioned that stuff. I’m adding something he can fix right now.
Watch him closely on every defensive possession (and even some on offense). He literally stands there watching Kanter/O’Quinn. He defers and expects them to get the rebound as if it’s not his job.
Then when he plays the 5 and Kanter/O’Quinn are not there, he’s still deferring, but it’s to Beasley or whoever else happens to playing the 4 at the time. The difference is that those guys are not going to secure the rebound at the 4 nearly as much as Kanter and O’Quinn do at the 5.
Part of it is literally a mental, effort, habit, role thing. It’s his job but he doesn’t know it.
Someone has to tell him, “You are at the 5 now. Don’t stand around like a big jerk hoping Beasley or some other smaller guy gets the rebound. Go after it you big dummy!”
@48 that’s fair. I’ll retract that statement and stick with “he’s just not my kind of player” for now.
strat, I don’t think KP “defers” as much as he is just slow on the uptake and has all the other issues I mentioned. AD gets plenty of rebounds with monster rebounder Cousins generally near the basket. KP just doesn’t have a nose for the ball, and it takes him a while to get himself going. Shorter guys outmuscle and outhustle him all the time. Trevor Booker was a particularly egregious example, he seemed to beat KP to the spot every time and even when he didn’t he would just rip the ball out of KP’s hands.
The Kemba discussions are probably not worth the trouble.
Kemba is a good player on a good contract. How good can be debated. However, the only reason he may be on the block is to get someone to take one of Charlotte’s bad or horrid contracts. Period!
The only way that would make sense for us would be if we got rid of one or more of our own bad contracts. Since that’s not what Charlotte is looking to do, it’s hard to imagine a trade scenario that works for us.
Giving up one of our picks or young assets to pull this off (even if we got rid of someone like Noah – which of curse is fantasy given what Charlotte wants to do ) would be dumb. We need every pick and young player we can get and we have time to allow the bad contracts to come off on their own because we are 2-3 years away from anything serious anyway. It would take an exceptional situation for it to make sense to give up Frank or any 1st round pick.
It really depends what your goal is re: Kemba. If your goal is to watch a decent team, trade for him. If you’re in the KNicks front office and are just looking at ways to maximize your team’s revenue, Kemba’s a smart guy to get since he’ll get the team up into the 40s in wins. If you want the team to be more than forgettable though, you should be terrified of a trade for him.
@53 I would suggest you watch him closely on every possession. You will see several a game where he is in decent position but literally just stands there watching and makes zero effort at all. It’s like it’s not his job to bang. To be honest, maybe he has been told to not bang or he’s purposely trying to avoid the physicality and potential injury, but it’s mental decision to defer. I say that because on other occasions he WILL try. That when his physical limitations, strength, and hands come into play . I don’t know how many more he’d get if he tried, but he wouldn’t get 2 in a night.
After a minute or so of college basketball I’m pretty confident Trae Young is trash
I wouldn’t give up a first for Kemba, (unless it was at least top 20 protected) but I don’t see the problem with taking bad contracts at this point. Even if we are able to move both Lee and Thomas for no future salary, let O’Quinn and McDermott walk we are looking at $20 million in cap space next year max. After that KP’s extension kicks in and we are done with cap space until after Noah and THJ expire. Do we really think we are signing anyone better than Kemba with that cap space? Since we won’t have much cap space anyway why not take all the bad contracts and grab some assets as well.
Batum and MKG are both good NBA players, grossly overpaid, yes, but net positives that would help any NBA team. Kemba is also a very good NBA player that would alone solve most of this teams major issues. Why not bring all three players on board, screw cap space and move forward?
After next season we should have a pretty good idea what kind of player Ntilikina is and can either let Kemba walk or resign him. I don’t see a real downside as long as we don’t trade our pick or Frank.
@ Ben R
The Knicks should be less averse to taking bad contracts, but they should only do it if it helps the team. I’m not sure how Walker really helps them in any kinda sustainable way. Like, if we could trade Lance Thomas for Kemba Walker on the condition that we couldn’t trade Walker ever, I think it’d actually lead to fewer total wins over the next, say, 6 years than keeping Lance. Kemba will put us in the playoffs next year and possibly this year as well, and then he’ll be a free agent, and we’ll have to ask whether we want to give a 29 year old an expensive multi-year contract. Either we do, and he probably declines markedly by year 2 (PGs in general have shorter careers, and those who rely on quickness and driving ability have the shortest of the group).
So we get 2 seasons of more wins and probably by year three, the cost in terms of developing young guys and having worse picks probably has the team worse off than if it hadn’t made the trade.
But there isn’t a clause that says we have to keep Kemba forever. If we can get him without giving up any major future assets except some cap space, then even if it just makes us a good team this year and next and then he walks why not do it? Hopefully Frank keeps developing and moving on from Kemba after next season is a no brainer. If not then we have a real problem at PG moving forward but at least we would have had an actual NBA PG for a season and a half and can make the decision to resign him then.
It’s coming, to quote someone:
“At my command unleash Perry-Hell”
He has one more season after this one where he’ll be on a good contract. From that point forward he’ll be on an awful contract. If you trade for him now and extend him, you’re paying him top dollar for his decline phase. That’s how you get trapped in mediocrity: investing in the decline phases of players who were good but not great at their peak.
In other words, welcome to New York, Kemba.
I remember hearing folks say it was a sure thing that we were gonna make Kurt Rambis the coach. Then there was certainty that we were gonna re-sign Rose to a multi year deal. And now we’re sure gonna overpay for Kemba and then lock him in till he’s old and gray on a 5-year max extension.
But hey, all’s well here at KB!
Yesterdays game day thread someone said Donovan Mitchell isn’t anything special or good? LOLOLOL
Probably the same people who don’t think Boogie Cousins is a good player
Great sense of humor you got there, pally.
I will confess I do not know for sure that the Knicks will give a max contract extension. Totally busted! Hahahaha, you got me!
Oh, wait, Kemba’s from the Bronx? Someone make a call — we’ve got a mega max NTC to offer!!!!
That was me, and Boogie is a good player, but he’s not as good as people think because he does lots of bad things to go along with the good things. He leads the league in turnovers and fouls.
About Rambis: sources say that Jackson was so scared by fan reactions, especially on a certain blog, that he took a step back…
On Kemba: he’ll be great in NY and he’s waaaaay better of what we have now… It’s the cost of the trade that’s scary, we’re so accustomed to the FO making dumb things that we try everything to exorcise that…
Kemba for Lee straight up? I’ll take that in a second (even MKG for Lee straight up), but CHA wants to give away his past sins…
Oh, was that you, JK? Sorry, I thought it was someone else.
Seriously, let’s wait until Perry fucks something up before assuming the worst. So far, he fleeced OKC on the Melo trade, signed a few guys to vet’s minimum deals, and cultivated Burke in the G-League. And he’s letting Horny play my man, Ron Baker. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.
I don’t think OKC got fleeced. It was a pretty even trade and it got Russ to commit
I don’t know why KOQ and Lee aren’t on the Cavs yet.
I see no reason to not believe in Scott Perry so far. Let’s let him get passed a trade deadline, an NBA draft, and a free agency period before we decide he’s a bum.
I have more faith in Perry’s ability to trade fairly than draft well. As Thomas showed, those are two completely different things.
Orlando and the Kings don’t make me super optimistic
Yeah, the last 2 teams Perry worked for are pretty garbage right now in Orlando and Sacramento, he didn’t exactly leave them in great shape. I have very little faith he really knows what he’s doing and we all know Mills has no clue what he’s doing. Amazing that immediately following the most successful season in over a decade Dolan undermined then got rid of the GM and replaced him with Mills and it’s been all downhill from there. It’s pretty bad when I long for the days of Grunwald/Woodson.
Isn’t someone gonna say the Thunder have figured it out (for the 20th time)?
Perry wasn’t completely in charge at his last two jobs so its hard to judge him. He’s competent which is a high bar for us but not sure he can put together a true title contender.
Perry does not have a record that inspires a lot of confidence. The fact that he was hired by Mills is a check mark in the negative column. But he won the Melo deal. That was a decent accomplishment given there were only few teams to work with. He also didn’t do a bad job picking up some cheap pieces to fill out the team like Beasley, Burke, and Jack. I’m willing to give him some time before I start yapping.
I was just thinking about the Cavs. I think I can honestly say I would rather be in our position than theirs. They are old, horrid on defense, not good enough to seriously contend anymore, and a long way away from rebuilding. I’m not even sure they can make a trade that gives them a serious chance.
Thomas is terrific on offense but terrible on defense.
Shumpert is terrible.
JR Smith is terrible.
Love is a good all around player, but he’s not a defender.
Wade, Rose, Calderon, Frye, and Korver are all washed.
Tristan Thompson is not the same player he was.
I guess Jeff Green is having a decent year, but come on.
OK, I like Crowder as a role player but even he’s not having as good a year as in Boston.
They should probably tank and trade Lebron. lol
Why are we still talking about KP as if he is a franchise player? He’s one of my favorite players all-time in orange and blue, but there comes a time when an apple is just an apple, and will never become a full course meal. I mean, he’s a second/third violin and that’s great. But he can’t be *the* cornerstone.
@80 only if you assume that he’s done developing at age 22. For me, it’s an open question.