Knicks Morning News (2017.12.22)

I was really sick last night; fell asleep with the game on. and in a haze from the fever, I hallucinated that Mike Beasley beat the Celtics by himself

The biggest problem during Beasley’s career is that he’s always wanted to be a 3 when he is clearly best suited to be a 4. His best moments as a pro, like tonight, have come when he’s played the 4. So, I dunno, maybe? It sure would be sweet to see.

In 10 December games, he’s averaging 22 mpg, 17 pts, 5 rebs, on a TS% of .593 with passable D (like vs. Horford during key possessions last night.) I thought he was loony like everyone else did when he called himself a Walkin’ Bucket, but he’s walkin’ the walk. Good for him, and good for us!

Again, it’s a JR Smith thing: near-max contract gifts (on offense, anyway), G-league head. I don’t think he’ll ever entirely stop doing things that make me want to tear out what remains of my hair, but there’s a possibility of him evolving from a “No no no no no no YESSSSSS!” player to someone you just feel confident will be, well, a walking bucket whenever he’s on the court.

A four with legit 3-point range who can at least come close to holding his own on the glass is all the rage these days. Beasley may have hung on just long enough to enter an era in which he can be a contributor.

We’ll probably look back on this thread and laugh hysterically at ourselves in a month, tops, but I’m here for the ride while it lasts!

We’ll probably look back on this thread and laugh hysterically at ourselves in a month, tops, but I’m here for the ride while it lasts!

I think we’re all aware that he could become a disaster in a hurry, and there’s a reason he’s stayed a minimum contract guy despite several years in a row of good numbers. But he’s always had talent, and sometimes, the light does turn on for guys like this.

No question that Frank is an exceptional defensive guard. As is Ron.

BIG question still as to whether Frank is a PG. Same with Ron.

Part of the reason they are on the team together is that it was assumed we were going to continue playing triangle. One selling point of the triangle is that instead of having one ball dominant PG to run P&R and create all the plays, you have two guards that both have better passing skills than the typical off guard. That way the defense can’t just take your PG out of the game and throw a serious money wrench into your offense the way Phil used to do defensively against other teams. That’s partly why he doesn’t like the modern offense. He was able to defend it too well in the playoffs.

The downside of this is that neither Baker or Frank is true PG or enough of a scorer to be a traditional SG (we are overstaffed at SG for now with RHJ and Lee anyway). So either Frank is going to have to become a true PG or we are going to have to become more creative in how we run our offense than teams in the NBA with traditional PGs.

What a win. There is zero chance we aren’t laughing hysterically in a month about how jacked we all are about Beas, but who cares.

Also, that was a great Frank v. Kyrie vid someone posted last night. Frank plays defense the way it’s meant to be played. It’s amazing how well he gets over screens and how quickly he can recover into a passing lane.

I am probably more excited to watch Frank’s defense in the years to come than anything on this team.

The net of everything Beasley does statistically will not measure his impact correctly. He’s one of those guys that can dominate a game on offense and be the major reason you won, but he will also have bad stretches and blow a game if you give him too much rope. I was against the signing when we made it, but I was clearly wrong. I can count 4 games we would not have won except for the fact that Beasley was almost unstoppable. We can’t count on him to deliver every night, but if we use him wisely when we need what he can bring he’s going to win more games for us single handed.

He’s a walking bucket and a walking quote machine.

Anyone notice it doesn’t seem to matter whether Hardaway plays or not? That really was a horrible waste of cap space.
That video of Frank’s defense was awesome. They don’t win that game without him.

Frank, a 19-year-old rookie in December, had 4 turnovers against the best defense in the NBA. No surprise there. But as I always say, when you’re looking at a player this young the thing you’re looking for are flashes of the player he can possibly become as he matures and develops. That length, stroke, passing touch, advanced knowledge of the pick-n-roll, and stride are always on display. I can’t wait until he figures out how to play in a way where the ball doesn’t slow him down because he can cover ground when he has the confidence in his handle.

I was at the game so didn’t get to hear the commentary – was there something out there about KP limping around between quarters? With all the giddiness about Beasley, it’s a little disturbing that Boston can make KP look so awful. He’s still the future of this franchise, and Beasley is obviously just a stop gap.

I hope in a way that KP is still feeling the effects of the knee injury, because that was one fugly performance last night.

The Celtics are the best defense in the NBA, you are going to commit turnovers against them.

He’s been turning it over a lot all season and the Celts are a middle of the pack team when it comes to generating turnovers.

The Celts have won a lot of games but look very vulnerable. Granted, they had 3 key players out (Hayward, Brown, Morris) and a less-key but somewhat important one given that the others were out (Larkin), and they were on the tail end of a back-to-back, but they don’t look like a #1 seed to me.

From what I read today KP just took a moment to walk the halls bc he was upset with his performance. And I don’t think Horns didn’t play him bc they were worried about his knee. He didn’t play him bc Beasley and the bench were getting it done. Same reason why he didn’t put in jack or lee or kanter. No need to do so.

Which is nice cause KP got to work off some rust but or starters should all be fresh for tonight.

Also hardaway has defineltnwon is some games this year and I do not know what you mean by he makes no difference. We struggled a bit when he first went out. Instead of looking at it negatively how about this. Him being out has given Ron, Lance, Frank, McDermott and Beasley all a chance to play more and get more experience and confidence. When Hardaway comes back I’d we can get him, KP and Kanter all healthy and clicking again like they were earlier this season we’re gonna be even better than we are now bc now our strong starting five will be backed up by a stronger and more experienced bench. If we can get through this little injury bug stretch and hit the road in Janaury full strength we’ll start winning some road games. This team is still learning and growing. Having Hardaway, KP and Kanter out for some games has given opportunities for others to step up and shine. They have and we’re gonna be a stronger team in the long run for it.

hang in there totes!

the thing about Beasley’s emergence as of late is the depth it adds; his role in the second unit is fortified at this moment and that thanks to hornacek defining a specific role for him.

Uh, I don’t know what season you guys are watching, but Kyrie has been the best guard in the east this year and nearly unstoppable in crunchtime. For anyone to lock him down for any amount of time, much less a 19-year-old rookie, is a preposterous feat. I’m really so pumped that we have Frank’s perimeter D. I just hope he can become a passable point and/or that we can add a facilitating sf to the lineup eventually.

overshadowed by beasley is Kanter’s first half domination and KOQ backup play. not to mention Lee was constant threat and hitting a few big shots keeping up momentum.

one hell of a game; hard to believe we’re the same team on the road.

@36

I just hope Frank is a Knick after 5 years, that’s all.

I’m trying to keep my enthusiasm in check, because there’s a lot of stuff to like about what’s happening with him, including the fact that when the team is competing well and on tough games he seems to elevate his level of play and basically demand minutes.

His 3p% is up to .346, if it keeps improving he’ll reach .500 ts% in some time. Baby steps on offense.

What Frank doesn’t have (yet?) is the ability to create his own shot any time he wants. That requires a combination of speed, acceleration, handle, jumping ability and tough shot making that people have in various quantities. It’s that ability that will draw defenses to him and give him a chance to pass and make plays. Some of those attributes that can be developed with practice or just working on your body. He will get better, but there are other 19 year old players that obviously have more athletic gifts to start. He does seem to have the court vision and passing skills to do it. So we’ll see how far he can develop his explosiveness, handle etc.. We already know he can defend and has 3 point range if left open. That’s a pretty good start.

Still, if they can get another good young PG prospect, go for it. But, a young talented legit three would really give the Knicks a nice base of young talent going forward. I’m still hoping Willy can get in the rotation in January or so.

I agree.

My idea of perfection would be adding a solid young scoring PG, moving Frank to SG and having him play at the #1, #2, and even eventually the #3 depending on the situation, adding a young SF that can score, having Hernangomez take the starting C spot from Kanter so we can move him (or Kanter coming back for less), and moving Hardaway to the bench as a 6th man. That will take time and be difficult to achieve within our cap space even when Noah and Lee have moved on. That would also be a big salary to pay Hardaway to be 6th man. But a man can dream.

yea i dont get what we are waiting for with regard to burke.. some have pointed out he and Frank would make a perfect 1-2 punch in the second unit with scoring and defense. im not sure i believe that but if each player can rub off a little on the other than that makes for a better guard rotation but the highlights make him look like isaiah thomas 2.0

I am scratching my head, too.
We currently have a 19 year old PG who is probably top 1-3 on defense at his position right now. Oh, and he has a great shooting stroke, and very accurate/smart passing skills. He is our future at the position right now.
We also have a 25 year old SF who has a TS% of 584, and is currently shooting 42.5% from 3 on 90 shots this season. By eye test, McDermott seems to be good on defense too. He made a few excellent defensive plays last night, like stopping a running Kyrie in his tracks. He should be getting all of Lance’s minutes.
Beasley playing well feels like Jarrett Jack to me. Who cares, are we really going to resign a 29 year old next summer for more money? He’s not even a mentor type. I’d rather have lost those few games than have this reincarnation of JR Smith give us extra wins.
If we were winning on the backs of Frank, McDermott, KP, Kanter, Willy (WTF did he do to Hornacek?!), Timmy, Dotson, etc. I’d be very happy. But Lee, Lance, Jack, and Beasley really have no purpose here.

“Did anyone watch Frank play last night? He IS Scottie Pippen on the defensive end and I defy anyone to point out a better defensive player ever at the guard position at his age. Irving is one of the slickest ball handlers in the NBA and he went into his act and Frank jammed it right up his ass with those long arms as Kyrie nearly stumbled into the back court to regroup. Who does that at 19?”

“On offense, he has that uncanny older dude at the Y game, a la Harden. I don’t expect him to become Harden; Harden’s a tremendous offensive player. One of the best in league history. Even though he’s a little more explosive than Ntilikina, they still are alot alike athletically. “

Yeah, I’d say a combo of Scottie Pippen and James Harden is about right. Actually, his dunk reminded me a bit of Wilt Chamberlain. And did you see that one rebound he got? Pure Bill Russell!

I get that there are many roads to Rome, and I can actually understand how Jack may be serving a huge role for Frank, and a big problem with our organization is organization, and guys like Jack, Lee, Lance, and Noah may serve to help the framework our youth grows into, but come on, Beasley????! The dude is just as likely to go 8-42 over the next 3 games.

I’m not sure what you want Hornacek to do. Our top scorer was MIA and our 2nd leading scorer is injured. Should he not play Beasley and let ???? create offense? I get that Beasley is not a long term solution, but you have to try and win that game last night and Beasley did deliver.

Yeah I really don’t see what the problem is and I hate the logic that everyone has to be 25 or under. Beasley could continue to be this good for 2 or 3 more seasons before he starts to decline especially since he’s in a backup bench role. Lee could also stay this good for the rest of his contract. OQuinn could be resigned for another 3 or 4 years and remain where he is. Are they gonna be here in 5 years? Probably not but they could be here the next two to three and while KP and Frank develop along with Ron, Dotson, Willie and our draft picks we could continue to grow and improve as a team. There’s no reason to kick dudes to the curb just bc they aren’t young like KP. Like stated above, if you have a hard rule like that you are denying yourself the opportunity to find market inefficiencies like Beasley. See, I used the term market inefficiency so I sounded smart.

any ideas on what horny can do to help the team carry their msg game out on to the road?

i had read something during the charlotte trip which said he was going to change up some things with their warmups – which, obviously didn’t work so well…

oh yeah, all-star voting is open now: https://vote.nba.com/?iref=asv18_nbacom_plyrprof_US&cid=asv18_nbacom_plyrprof_US#/

i voted for: kp, frank, kanter and lee…also voted for ingram and kuzma – and, no – i’m not some closet laker fan – although, i might just be turning in to one 🙂

I agree with the questioning of Ron and Frank being NBA point guards. As of now neither one has a good enough handle to deal with pressure defense. Also they both have a habit of making bad passes that lead to too many turnovers. The Knicks still need an above average point guard to get over the hump and become one of the better teams in the league. They’ve had this same need for about 20+ years now…..

Hornacek should play more our boxscore juggernaut Joakim Noah.

He has a .723 WP48 FFS!

I’d be okay with the TS% if he didn’t cough up the ball so much. .565 TS% on highish volume from a minimum-contract bench player is better than I’d expect.

yes if he was his normal 2.5 TO self on .565 and high usage that would be pretty useful (though still pretty one dimensional). maybe he can be or maybe the cost of him getting better shots is more TOs. The avg TO costs around 1.5 shot attempts when you factor in no ORB and the 60pct of Live Ball TOs generating over 1.2ppp for the opponent. Guys who are not assist guys and turn it over a ton have to be crazy efficient even on high usage to be valuable.

you whole plan seems to hinge on one player but what happens if lance retires

The TO issue with Beasley is not as simple as with the typical player. The more often you handle the ball, the more your chances for a TO. But if you take the ball to the hoop to score, your TOs will tend to rise even more because you are going into traffic and will get stripped. Advanced stats try to correct for that by looking at TO%. Look at KP. His TOs are up this year because he’s handling and dribbling the ball more, but his TO% is actually down.

Beasley’s TOs and TO% are up quite a but this year. Some of it may be random or poor decisions, but some of it may be that he’s being asked to score a lot and he generally doesn’t do it spotting up (someone that spots up will hardly ever turn it over). He’s being ask to create for himself a lot.

Some of the comparisons are tricky depending on your role.

we’re gonna need another beasley show

Off to a great start.

Road game
Second game of back-to-back
Odds of winning: infinitesimal

our bench may be the difference tonight…or, not…

for someone reason i couldn’t post my beasley chant…to which – i’d just like to say in an abbreviated format:
beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley – beasley –

I couldn’t watch the Celtics game, but I read about it afterwards. A couple Celtics were saying they liked O’Quinn and that he would help the Celtics. For those who watched, does that seem to be true?

Noah!

@77
I recall last year a few of us noting that OQ would probably be a real good fit in Boston.

Clashfan, Well the Celtics certainly have stuff they could offer for him.

LOL. During the break, the NBA top 5 plays was just shown on League Pass. Two of them of the Celtics scoring against the Knicks last night. None of the Knicks scoring.

I have to say that even though the Knicks don’t look very good tonight, it’s actually much better played than most of their road games have been

Now the Knicks having trouble inside on both ends of the court

Come on, man! Frank is a young player with great potential. But guys here are comparing him to Pippen, Harden, and WILT? On that steal and dunk it was a lazy crosscourt pass (always derided as “dangerous” by Clyde) on which Frank made a GOOD play that MANY players would have made, and converted the breakaway dunk. Did not look like any of those 3 guys. Frank is not fast twitch like Scottie or smooth as silk like Harden or overwhelmingly fast and powerful like WILT. I would cautiously compare him to a young Clyde, who was never the fastest but had great instincts and BECAME a top 50. Came into the league as a defensive stopper and worked hard to hone ALL of his skills. So, to be clear, IMHO Frank has great potential, but he’s not like those 3 guys. He’s got a little bit in common with the young Clyde and maybe Rolando Blackmon, but has a LONG way to go to demonstrate that he can be anywhere near the player Clyde became. If he can become Rolando, who was a top 20 player in the leagye at hus peak, we should be very happy. Clyde and wilt were top 50 of all time. I do support him and his development and I like the way Horn’s utilizing him.