Knicks Morning News (2017.06.20)

  • [NYDN] Frank Ntilikina drawing interest from Knicks, now Mavericks too
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 3:17:32 PM)

    Apparently Frank Ntilikina has another committed suitor for the NBA draft.

  • [NYDN] La La Anthony praises Carmelo as a ‘great dad’ on Father’s Day
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 6:28:55 AM)

    Carmelo Anthony still scored a glowing Father’s Day wish from his estranged wife La La weeks after a separation filled with drama.

  • [NYTimes] The 7-Foot Question at the Heart of the Knicks’ Future
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 6:35:40 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis and Willy Hernangomez are so close they’re like “a big family.” With Thursday’s N.B.A. draft approaching, they could turn out to be very tall pillars of the team.

  • [NYTimes] Trading the No. 1 Pick Worked Out Well for the Celtics in 1980
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 10:05:28 PM)

    Boston’s trade with Philadelphia is reminiscent of a trade that led to the Celtics’ acquiring Kevin McHale and Robert Parish, stalwarts of three championship teams.

  • [NYTimes] Kevin Durant Goes a Couple of Rounds With His Twitter Critics
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 2:49:27 PM)

    The newly minted N.B.A. finals M.V.P. exchanged lighthearted jabs with fans, confronting talking points that are likely to dog him for seasons to come.

  • [NYPost] This NBA Draft is reviving a Knicks horror story
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 5:01:35 PM)

    The Knicks in their history officially have picked eighth in the NBA draft five times. For those who favor tradition, the No. 8 pick in 1964 stands out. With several territorial picks before the draft, No. 8 became the first choice of the second round. And it produced a pretty fair player in Willis Reed….

  • [NYPost] Knicks PG target flying to draft, with French mission unfinished
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 4:36:57 PM)

    Point-guard prospect Frank Ntilikina is scheduled to fly into Newark with his agents on Tuesday afternoon for the NBA draft despite his Strasbourg club forcing a winner-take-all Game 5 on Monday in the French League Finals with an 84-78 victory over Chalon, according to sources. Game 5 is slated for Friday, the day after the…

  • [NYPost] Amar’e Stoudemire a champion in Israel — now he has 3 options
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 12:35:48 PM)

    Amar’e Stoudemire is back from the Holy Land with a championship in tow, and he has not ruled out a return to the NBA — and the Knicks. Stoudemire arrived back in Miami on Sunday after his Hapoel Jerusalem club, despite being the fourth seed in playoffs, captured the Israeli Premier League championship on Thursday…

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks could target Dennis Smith, Jr.
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 8:00:00 PM)

    Will the Knicks, with the eighth overall selection in Thursday night’s NBA Draft, select North Carolina State’s Dennis Smith Jr.?

  • [SNY Knicks] Lauri Markkanen could be a fit for Knicks in the Draft
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 3:30:01 PM)

    Lauri Markkanen’s stock has been steadily rising as one of the better frontcourt players in this year’s draft class.

  • [SNY Knicks] JRSportBrief: With Draft approaching, Knicks can’t trust Phil Jackson
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 1:10:40 PM)

    In the latest installment of JRSportBrief on SNY.tv, JR explains why the Knicks can’t trust Phil Jackson as the NBA Draft approaches.

  • [SNY Knicks] Paul George reportedly tells Pacers he’s leaving after 2017-18 season
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 1:15:12 PM)

    Pacers F Paul George has reportedly told the team he plans to leave as a free agent after the 2017-18 season.

  • [SNY Knicks] PG Donovan Mitchell to work out with Knicks on Tuesday
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 12:00:11 PM)

    Louisville guard Donovan Mitchell is slated to work out with the knicks prior to the NBA draft, according to ESPN.

  • [SNY Knicks] Ntilikina, Monk could be options for Knicks with 8th pick
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 10:30:38 AM)

    Now that the ping pong balls have dropped, there’s no question anymore: the Knicks will select eighth in the 2017 NBA Draft.

  • [SNY Knicks] Derrick Rose wants to stay with Knicks next season
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 9:44:08 AM)

    Knicks PG Derrick Rose wants to stay in New York next season, and is willing to take a pay cut, per Bleacher Report’s Yaron Weitzman.

  • [NY Newsday] Both Knicks, Mavericks eye French guard Frank Ntilikina
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 7:53:48 PM)

    Frank Ntilikina is coming to New York. That could be where he plays.

  • [NY Newsday] NBA Draft: Al Iannazzone’s top 10 prospects
    (Monday, June 19, 2017 1:40:00 PM)

    There already has been movement at the top of the NBA Draft as the Celtics sent the No. 1 pick to the 76ers for the No. 3 choice and two future first-round selections. There could be more deals before Thursday night.

  • 346 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.06.20)”

    Gotta be honest – I’m pretty turned off that Ntilikina is leaving his team to come to the draft. I guess he could fly back to France right afterward, but it’s not exactly the “Team First” ethos that you might want. Tough choice for him as he’s probably dreamed about Thursday night his whole life.

    Hey Lavor – really nice work at that new site.
    I have zero idea why KP doesn’t pull out the Dirk 1-foot stepback more to create all the space he needs. It seems to be a comfortable move for him but he rarely ever does it. It also seems like when he’s in the post, he just has a really hard time getting his feet under him — and when he does the step back, he’s better at hopping into balance.

    And I agree re: Dallas trading up past us. I like Frank but he certainly doesn’t seem to be so much better than other guys at that spot, and if that means Isaac drops to us, or that we draft DSJ or Monk, I wouldn’t be specifically unhappy with that.

    Meanwhile – I have sort of an inkling that Ainge is going to pick Isaac. He never telegraphs his pick.

    Chad Ford’s last mock seems to indicate that Luke Kennard is on our radar for the #8 pick. How do people feel about that? He was a 49/44/86 guy who passed the ball well and seems like he’ll be able to score at the NBA level. Worried about his defense though.

    Frank,
    Thanks for reading. Yeah, I think it’s just about him not being super comfortable down there yet and in general post play is an art that takes bigs awhile to master so it’s not a crisis or anything yet. I do want to see more of what we saw from him towards the end of the season though, where he was starting to use his size to his advantage instead of shying away from the contact. Another thing he needs to avoid is unnecessarily using bank shots, which he does even when he’s shooting from a more centrally oriented position.

    Kennard and Mitchell are the 2 guys likely drafted in the teens that I believe will outperform a bevy of their counterparts in the top-10, but I wouldn’t be huge on picking either at 8 since that seems like a reach in relation to where most teams have them pegged. Kennard’s playmaking from a non-traditional position and herky jerky game is fun as hell though.

    Chad Ford’s last mock seems to indicate that Luke Kennard is on our radar for the #8 pick. How do people feel about that? He was a 49/44/86 guy who passed the ball well and seems like he’ll be able to score at the NBA level. Worried about his defense though.

    Kennard will clearly play in the NBA, but when guys rise dramatically based on stuff like shooting the ball well (after shooting the ball well all year in the NCAA), then I have to scratch my head a bit. So, you weren’t interested in Kennard, then he hit a bunch of threes in a workout and now you’re in on him? NBA GMs are weird.

    @6 – not sure what they made him do in the workout, but my guess is that he did a lot of non-spot-up shooting — ie. off screens, pull-up, etc. that maybe there wasn’t that much of an in-game sample on film?

    But yeah – agree.

    @BC

    Anytime I hear stuff like that after a workout it always reminds me of this

    The Knicks heard about his athleticism (a 42-inch vertical leap) and wingspan (nearly 7 feet long, impressive for a 6-foot-5 combo guard), but they knew his outside shot was suspect. Shumpert himself admitted that to them — but a pre-draft workout at the team’s training facility showed otherwise.

    “He said he couldn’t shoot,” D’Antoni said, “but he came in and had almost a picture-perfect shot, and we think that can get a lot better.

    http://www.espn.com/espnw/news-commentary/article/6701384/new-york-knicks-mike-dantoni-raves-draftee-iman-shumperthttp://www.espn.com/espnw/news-commentary/article/6701384/new-york-knicks-mike-dantoni-raves-draftee-iman-shumpert

    Also not sure why this is archived under ESPN’s women’s sports page lol

    They say that teams were impressed and surprised at Kennard’s overall athleticism. He also made shots from all over the floor which never hurts. It wouldn’t surprise me if he was our selection.

    Despite my being a UNC alum, I like Kennard a lot. But it’s a waste of an asset to draft him at 8 imo, when he could just as easily be gotten at 12 or 15.

    Re: Frank. Apparently his teams plan is to have him take a private jet back to France right after the draft so he can play in the final game. He doesn’t want to be in the US but has to be due to his agent and media availability stuff etc. or so a Post article reported

    I would be salty if Kennard is selected at 8. I don’t think he’s an all star type

    Luke Kennard was my favorite player at Duke this year and his game reminds me on Manu Ginobili. If a situation arises where we take Luke Kennard and leave Smith Jr and Monk on the board, I really wouldn’t be that mad. I like Smith Jr better but he already has an ACL tear and the thought of losing your franchise PG for a year scares me. I’ve never been a fan of Malik Monk so if we took Kennard, a player I’ve given a high first round grade to all season, I’d be okay with that. Kennard is the kind of guy who gets into a motion offense and just makes the right plays, but if you don’t key in on him he will give you 30 points. I can see him eventually developing into a Jose Calderon type, which would be great value for the #8 pick.

    Shumps shot form story is a cautionary tale about De’Aaron Fox and the belief that his jumper will be easily fixed at the next level.

    I could be talked into Kennard. He seems to be better athletically and a better passer than Redick, and if you were to get JJ Redick with the 8th pick in any draft, you’d have to be happy with that.

    The Lakers are supposedly trying to acquire another top ten pick to take Kennard. We could probably trade our #8 for Russell right now.

    Kennard wasn’t an awful defender at Duke and he plays with effort but his body is not NBA ready on the defensive end

    Kennard will have major problems guarding NBA 2s. With that said, I would love to have him on this team coming off the bench.

    The plan is all about D-FENSE going forward for the Knicks 8th pick.

    Kennard is a guy who is being hurt by the color of his skin. He went to Duke and was their best player by a lot last year. Jayson Tatum isn’t a great athlete by any means, and he might grade out a little higher than Kennard athletically but we see who is the top 5 guy and who is fringe lottery. If Malik Monk and Donovan Mitchell are being seen as point guard prospects, then why isn’t Kennard? Because he’s taller? Kennard did a lot of ball handling for Duke this past year.

    I’m not saying Kennard will for sure be the BPA at 8. I’m saying that if Kennard were the same exact player except black we wouldn’t have a chance to draft him given his numbers, craftiness, and shooting touch. If Kennard is the guy we should trade down to 10 with Sacramento and pick him there, but if the trade doesn’t make sense then I’m cool with taking him at 8 and watching him develop into a premier player in the triangle.

    If Kennard is the guy we should trade down to 10 with Sacramento and pick him there

    This

    If Kennard were black no one would say he’s crafty lol @20

    I also think the D Mitchell hype is ridiculous

    Kennard was definitely the best player on Duke last season. But he is also a subpar defender at the NBA level. The fact that he happens to be white doesn’t change that he lacks the lateral quickness or superior length to build upon at the NBA level.

    There are a lot of guys who are subpar defenders that I would take on the Knicks without hesitation. I’m not letting a guy with poor physical traits stress me too much if he’s smart and willing to play defense.

    The reason Chris Paul won’t come here is because we currently suck. If we were good then he’d consider it regardless of anything else. Also I think that’s probably a good thing that we’re not going to be an option for top FA’s because we’re not in a good position to make those moves right now, so even if we stumbled into that outcome ass backwards I’ll take it.

    There was a study going around basketball twitter yesterday that claims white american players are generally overdrafted:

    White Americans have underperformed given their draft position at a statistically significant rate (evidenced by a one-way ANOVA statistical test). When comparing White American draft picks (159 players in total and 14% of total) against all others by how they performed vs. their Expected Value, White American draftees averaged a whopping -7.21 WS+VORP, compared to +1.18 for non-WAs. Simply put, if a team took a WA player with the 5th overall pick, he would have a lower Expected Value (WS+V=38, see the trendline below) than the 12th overall pick for a non-WA player (WS+V=39). Similarly, a WA taken 10th overall had the same projected value as a non-WA player taken at 19th overall.

    If we’re looking to draft a lesser prospect like Mitchell or Kennard I’d much rather us try to trade down a few spots, but I guess that’s easier said than done.

    But he is also a subpar defender at the NBA level.

    The enormous sample-size of him defending at the NBA level has made this abundantly clear!

    Honestly, if you are tall enough, fast enough, and strong enough to score in the NBA, you’re probably tall enough, fast enough, and strong enough to try to keep the other team from scoring in the NBA.

    The reason people don’t do both is because it’s really hard to play at a 100% level going both ways and sustain it for an entire game. So hard in fact, almost nobody does it. (I’d bet that if James Harden quit trying to dominate the offensive end and spent his energy on the defensive end, he’d be a DPOY candidate).

    Individual defense is the most overrated aspect of a player. It is impossible to measure, especially for guards.

    I don’t know anything about Kennard except what I just read in this thread. But if he can do all the offensive stuff people are writing about, he can play solid team defense at the NBA level, and shouldn’t be passed over because of it.

    If the alienation of Carmelo Anthony prevented us from compounding the problem of decline phase Mega Max Melo with decline phase Mega Max CP3, good!

    I’m a hard no on Kennard at 8, even though I do like his game. There’s nothing in his statistical profile that stands out, and after watching him a lot last year I think that’s because his athleticism won’t be an NBA strength (to say the least).

    He’s the kind of guy I’d love to have with an extra pick, but the upside is way too limited to justify picking him at 8. I’m a certified Ntilikina skeptic and I’d still take Ntilikina over him, and Mitchell too.

    I read that Woj bit and I was of two minds on it. On the one hand, yeah, the Knicks suck, so why would Chris Paul want to play here? On the other hand, if Woj is telling me that Chris Paul considered coming here because his other options where he would get paid a lot of money were all uninspiring but then decided against it based on what happened to his buddy Melo, then I dunno, he’s so plugged in that I find it hard not to believe him. He typically doesn’t run stuff like that unless he has a really good source telling him that it’s true (especially as that particular piece gave him plenty of opportunities to vague it up and he chose to go more definitive).

    What bugs me about Kennard is all the people saying Monk is the best shooter in the draft. Well Monk is not a better shooter than Kennard.

    It’s always important to remember that while Woj is obviously the most plugged in guy around the league, he also carries a lot of water for various people in his pieces. That’s how you become the most plugged in person. There’s definitely a kernel of truth in the story: Carmelo is obviously popular with a lot of the elite guys in the league (banana boat etc.) and they probably do see his feuding with the front office in a negative light. But the Melo-Phil feud is only one tiny part of the reason this isn’t a good situation. If anything it’s much more of a symptom of the larger problems – lack of player talent, mediocre front office, horrible ownership – than it is the cause of any of those things.

    I’m beginning to feel the same way about Malik Monk that I did about Stephen Curry prior to the 2009 draft. We were also picking 8th that year, and I recall tons of Knicks fans wanting nothing to do with Curry for many of the same reasons no one wants Monk.

    The kid can shoot. We’re drafting 8th. This is not typically a premium position to be drafting from. I just can’t see passing on someone with such definable, valuable talent in favor of a raw 18 year old French PG. There is such a dearth of young talent on this team, we can’t afford to swing for the fences and strike out.

    I’m going to be very disappointed if we pass on him. His floor is a floor-spacing guard who can shoot the lights out. That’s very likely going to be a plus NBA player for his first two contracts. His ceiling, if he can develop his ball handling skills, is immense. At the 8th pick in the draft, that’s more than we deserve.

    Also… if Dallas is willing to trade something to jump ahead of us, we should just make the damn trade ourselves.

    His floor is a floor-spacing guard who can shoot the lights out. That’s very likely going to be a plus NBA player for his first two contracts. His ceiling, if he can develop his ball handling skills, is immense.

    I’d say his floor is a decent shooter who doesn’t do anything else-which is a bad basketball player. I realize he’s not Devin Booker, but if Monk comes in and hits 35% of his 3’s for his first few seasons while playing no defense, not playmaking, and not rebounding, he’s going to suck. And that’s certainly a possibility.

    I read that Woj bit and I was of two minds on it. On the one hand, yeah, the Knicks suck, so why would Chris Paul want to play here? On the other hand, if Woj is telling me that Chris Paul considered coming here because his other options where he would get paid a lot of money were all uninspiring but then decided against it based on what happened to his buddy Melo, then I dunno, he’s so plugged in that I find it hard not to believe him. He typically doesn’t run stuff like that unless he has a really good source telling him that it’s true (especially as that particular piece gave him plenty of opportunities to vague it up and he chose to go more definitive).

    The 2 best quotes in sports are Parcells saying, “You are what your record says you are,” and George Young saying ,” When they say it isn’t about the money, it is always about the money.” This piece of BS story plays into these statements.

    Me7o has been here 6 years and not a single quality player or “friend” of his has chosen to play here for anything less than more they could get anywhere else, and that’s factorial. Chris Paul has zero chance of coming here to play for less money on a shitty team. I doesn’t pass the smell test.

    What it does smell like is Me7o in his best smirking passive aggressive way may see this rumor as the best way to try to get Phil fired so he can stay and be the man.

    @34
    I wholeheartedly disagree. Curry was the pick we all wanted, but he wasn’t falling to us. The fact that Minnesota drafted everyone except him was the craziest thing to ever happen.

    I’m luke warm on monk, no pun intended.

    @2 Lavor: great job breaking down Porzingis. It’s clear to me, however, that it is a failure in coaching. I wish the Knicks would hire a good, dedicated big man coach.

    Damn Hubert, I agree a million percent about Monk. I may violently throw up if they pick the Frenchman over him.

    DRed….that’s a lot of ifs. The guy can score in numerous ways already and we don’t know what else can improve. Remember curry was in college for 3 years vs 1 year for Monk

    Bobneptune why the he’ll would anyone want to play in N.Y.? Seriously why? So you can pay !more taxes and have an adversarial relationship with the media and live n a cramped apartment. No thanks. Give me LA or even Charlotte or Miami or maybe 15 other stops

    The unknown on Monk is whether he can do at the PG position what he can’t do at SG. He was moved to SG at Kentucky because there was no way that Fox could play that position. It doesn’t necessarily mean that Monk didn’t have decent PG skills. He’s the perfect size for an NBA PG and I can’t see why he couldn’t defend that position well.

    True reub. V true but he ain’t curry. Curry is the engine that makes the dubs offense go. Monk feels like a 6th man

    @WojVerticalNBA

    Sources: As teams become aware Phil Jackson isn’t ruling out possibility of trading Kristaps Porzingis, frenzy of interest is growing today.

    oh no

    As for Monk, he wouldn’t be my choice at 8 because he was so one dimensional, but I don’t think he has no chance of becoming a good NBA player. I just don’t think there’s more risk to drafting him than some of you seem to think. There’s a real chance he’s a bust.

    The difference between Curry and Monk is that Curry showed v good passing ability and handle in college (admittedly for Curry the passing came around by year 3) whereas Monk has only shown suggestions of passable performance in both areas

    Also Curry got lots of steals and Monk doesn’t.

    SMH:
    From Woj:

    Sources: As teams become aware Phil Jackson isn’t ruling out possibility of trading Kristaps Porzingis, frenzy of interest is growing today.

    Now i don’t think he should “rule out” the possibility of trading KP either, but it better be for a serious Godfather offer — like to the Celtics for #3, Nets 2018 pick, Lakers/Kings pick from the Fultz trade, Crowder, and Bradley.

    Boston has the goods to get KP. No one is untouchable, Think Isaac or Jackson , Crowder plus our own pick of Ntilikina plus a high lottery next year from them (Doncic?).

    Willy
    Isaac
    Crowder
    Ntilikina
    Doncic

    Plus whatever we get for Melo too.

    “The difference between Curry and Monk is that Curry showed v good passing ability and handle in college ”

    Like you said he played 3 years and he played PG. You can’t compare a 21 yr old to an 18 year old.

    At 18 though, Monk threw up 47 against NC. Curry played at a small school and didn’t start killing big name teams til later in his college years

    OMG it gets worse:

    Sources: Phil Jackson met with Lauri Markkanen in New York on Monday, a player whom he’s considering at No. 8 should Knicks move Porzingis.

    Do. Not. Trade. Kristaps. Holy fucking shit.

    It’s fun to entertain trade scenarios on a message board but I DO NOT trust phil in what–if actually occurring–is the most important negotiation we’ve had in the last 20-30 years

    I might be done being a Knicks fan if this breaks badly

    Monk is not a pg in college. Correct me if I’m wrong but Russel Westbrook is also not a pg in college right?
    Monk can be a pg in the triangle. The problem is, we Ned a sg who can dominate the ball. Without it p, it defeats the purpose.

    @46
    Having monk run the point is where his value is. If he’s a pg why would fox be starting, lame argument I know but he just feels like a 6th man.

    Don’t get me wrong I think he and Kp could be a nice 1-2 punch but that depends on his ability to penetrate and pass which I have not heard are strengths.

    @53: We have not had a “win trade” since Bellamy for Debusschere in 1968. Damn near FIFTY YEARS!.

    @54: 1% of me as well.

    Monk is not a pg in college. Correct me if I’m wrong but Russel Westbrook is also not a pg in college right?

    Correct…..hell Westbrook played some 3 in college with Josh Shipp and Darren Collison

    I’d say his floor is a decent shooter who doesn’t do anything else-which is a bad basketball player. I realize he’s not Devin Booker, but if Monk comes in and hits 35% of his 3’s for his first few seasons while playing no defense, not playmaking, and not rebounding, he’s going to suck. And that’s certainly a possibility.

    It is, but he shot 40% when he was the only guy on his team who got guarded beyond the arc (the rest of that Kentucky team couldn’t shoot a lick). I think it’s likely he’ll be an elite shooter on an NBA team. And in today’s NBA, a PG’s ability to hit a pull up 3P and punish anyone for going under a pick is as vital as his assist ratio.

    And it’s not like we have evidence that he can’t be a playmaker. We just have uncertainty, because Fox and Briscoe were Kentucky’s playmakers, and Monk had to play behind the line (because, again, no one else could shoot on that team).

    I would much rather trust an elite shooter & good athlete who wasn’t asked to do much playmaking to develop playmaking skills than I would trust someone to learn how to shoot. We’re always trying to convince ourselves that a guy who has proven he can’t shoot can develop his shot or be productive if used the right way. This time, let’s just get the guy who can shoot.

    Yeah I mean there are theoretical packages of stuff that I would take for KP, so I guess saying that he’s “available” isn’t cause to lose our minds. It’s like when the waiter comes to your table at the end of a delicious dinner when you’re already stuffed and asks if you want to see the dessert menu. I mean it doesn’t hurt to look, right?

    On the other hand I have extremely little faith that Phil Jackson has a good idea about the right direction to take this team in, and even less faith that he has the chops on a micro level to execute the plan even if he had the right big picture direction in mind. You just know that ever single one of the savvy orgs in the league heard that KP was available and started licking their chops about the prospect of trading with the Knicks. Probably he has some veteran PG that “perfectly suits the triangle” in his sights and thinks if we can just get that + Markannen and “really commit to running the triangle this year” we can be right back in the playoffs. This has disaster written all over it.

    We have a guy who can shoot, unless we do something stupid like trade him. We need a guy who can get him the ball!

    If Phil trades KP Adam Silver needs to get involved with this franchise this simply isn’t fucking tenable

    With a leak like this, you have to wonder who is leaking it and why. It’s not totally clear to me who benefits from this.

    I can very much picture Phil saying that we’ll take calls about anyone – bring your best offer and we’ll see. Doesn’t mean that he’s going to trade KP, but it’d be silly not to listen to Dell Demps if he calls you just to see if he might offer Anthony Davis for KP.

    If we trade Porzingis and draft Markannen, I….I don’t know what I’ll do. Do I find another team? Do I stop watching basketball altogether?

    This is an abusive relationship, plain and simple. Dolan and all his moronic hires are abusing us as fans. We are all prisoners of their egos and incompetence, powerless to stop the madness.

    I really hope that KP is not traded, but if they really are offering him up, Phil needs to get 3 prime assets back, at least. Prime assets = top 10 picks and young players with upside.

    I would really hate to see KP flourish on the east coast. So, Boston would have to pony up a massive bunch of stuff for him, starting with the #3 pick this year and New Jersey’s pick next year, and adding from there.

    The only other team that might have the stuff to deal with would be Sacramento. The #5 and 10 picks plus WCS might get talks serious.

    Lavor @2,
    That’s good stuff man. Congrats and keep on keepin on! Fair warning though- now that I have seen you in this light, I’m gonna just sit here and pick arguments with you because that’s kinda our thing here at knickerblogger, right? I mean..that’s what some commenters do here, insult & argue, no? Hahahahahahahahaha! I jest, of course. All jokes aside though, seriously dope article. I will definitely follow your fledgling career on rotoden

    @ 57 – Fox would be starting bc Fox is ALSO a PG but not nearly the shooter Monk is, so he had Monk play the SG role and Fox the PG role.

    College hoops ain’t like the NBA and free agency. Teams like UK aren’t “building” their teams through the draft and free agency with a long term plan in mind. They literally every year go after the best high school basketball players in the country and hope to recruit any and all of them. If two 7 foot centers decide they want to go to UK, coach Cal isn’t going to pass on one of them bc the other one has all ready committed. He’s gonna take them both and figure it out from there (even if he has an older player who plays that position too).

    So when two highly touted guard prospects both decide to go to UK, coach Cal gets them both and then assigns the roles in camp based on the strengths and weaknesses of both. We have no idea if he made FOX the PG bc he’s a better PG than Monk. What we do know is that Fox can’t shoot (yet) and Monk can, so he very likely could have made Fox the PG and Monk the SG for that reason even though Monk might also be just as capable at PG as Fox.

    If Phil Jackson trades Kristaps Porzingis I’ll be very mad. Phil Jackson through his tenure has been terrible at making trades. We’re not getting a godfather offer; we’re going to use KP to get rid of Carmelo Anthony.

    Yeah I mean there are theoretical packages of stuff that I would take for KP, so I guess saying that he’s “available” isn’t cause to lose our minds. It’s like when the waiter comes to your table at the end of a delicious dinner when you’re already stuffed and asks if you want to see the dessert menu. I mean it doesn’t hurt to look, right?

    On the other hand I have extremely little faith that Phil Jackson has a good idea about the right direction to take this team in, and even less faith that he has the chops on a micro level to execute the plan even if he had the right big picture direction in mind.

    I had a long post written up and then I noticed you already said what I was thinking

    The scary part of the rumor is visiting with markannen….

    Im not opposed to trading kp but his market value should be pretty high since there really isnt an example of a player of his caliber being traded while still on his rookie contract….

    Should be a top 6 pick in this draft plus multiple high lottos…

    The only other team that might have the stuff to deal with would be Sacramento. The #5 and 10 picks plus WCS might get talks serious.

    This is a terrible package.

    The only team that has the assets and also where KP fits enough that they would actually pull the trigger is Boston. #3, the 2018 Nets pick unprotected, and the Lakers/Kings Fultz pick, plus players OR they take Noah off our hands would be a starting point. 3 PRIME picks (#5 is ok but #10 does not count) plus young players and salary relief. That’s the baseline to start talking IMHO.

    id trade kp for Kat or Davis. Which no one would do so basically I’m not trading kp.

    Unless this really is a godfather offer – and again, I mean 3 prime 1st round picks + young players on good contracts + salary relief, the trading of KP might really be the end of me as a Knicks fan. I don’t need this.

    True reub. V true but he ain’t curry. Curry is the engine that makes the dubs offense go. Monk feels like a 6th man

    I’m not saying he’s going to be Curry; Curry exceeded all expectations. I’m just saying I see some of the skills that could make him Curry-lite. I love that he has one quantifiable skill that I know will most likely transfer to the NBA, and it just so happens to be the most important one. Aside from that, he has potential to develop as a playmaker and has the athleticism to be a decent defender.

    I wouldn’t consider him at 6. But at 8, I just think he offers more than our other options.

    Honestly, if you are tall enough, fast enough, and strong enough to score in the NBA, you’re probably tall enough, fast enough, and strong enough to try to keep the other team from scoring in the NBA.

    This train of thinking is a false equivalency. Offense and defense at the NBA level take different skill sets because of the way the game has been regulated to benefit the former over the latter. To be a good defender in today’s NBA takes extra athleticism, anticipation and length to deal with the lack of handcheck permission and propensity to call fouls. Its a lot easier for crafty, middling athletic talent in today’s NBA to excel in offense than defense.

    Again, I do NOT want to trade KP. I’m just saying that, off the top of my head, only Sacramento and Boston have the stuff to get serious talks started.

    Maybe LA if they offer the #2 pick (Ball), but what else do they have? They don’t have a #1 next year.

    LA would have to send #2 and Brandon Ingram at a minimum, and I still might not do that.

    Sac doesn’t have anything to send us. #5 and #10 are not super high quality picks.

    Yeah the only teams that have anything I’d be interested in are Boston and actually that’s it.

    They’d have to give us literally all their currently held firsts from the Philly trade along w swap rights like six years from now plus Crowder or something

    If Phil uses KP to dump Melo I’m just fucking done–I doubt that would be the case though.

    And I like how Phil is looking to replace KP with a version of him that’s slower with less athleticism and doesn’t play defense

    Wow – it is getting real between Porzingis’s camp and Phil. From ESPN:

    “Despite how the Knicks are treating their players, Kris wants to stay in New York,” Janis Porzingis said. “He loves the city and he loves the fans and he wants to win with this team. if he’s going to be traded , he’s going to play out his contact and decide his future on his own.”

    This is all about Phil’s ego. Porzingis was untouchable right up until he skipped the exit meeting and called the team dysfunctional.

    Phil doesn’t care if the team sucks. He doesn’t care if his mind games create stress and chaos in the locker room. He doesn’t care if his stupid triangle religion makes us score 50 points a game. But if anyone dares to suggest that he is something less than the Almighty Genius of Basketball, that’s where he draws the line.

    Porzingis made Phil look bad. An egomaniac cannot abide that.

    LA would have to send #2, Ingram, Russell, and a future pick before I even glance in their direction

    Only way I make a KP trade is in a deal that nets us Ball/Doncic and Isaac.

    Brandon Ingram fucking sucks, and Russell isn’t much better. The Lakers aren’t a good trade partner.

    Only way I make a KP trade is in a deal that nets us Ball and Isaac.

    Ball, Isaac, a future #1, and that team has to take Noah’s contract.

    I don’t think some people here understand how valuable Porzingis is as an asset. Under team control for 3 more years at least on rookie scale. Unbelievable ceiling. Zero off-court concerns. Gym rat. It is not hyperbole to say that he might be one of the top 5-6 assets in the NBA given his age, contract, and ability.

    I think his perception around the league is that of a top 5 asset along with Towns

    Those comments from the Porzingis camp are something. Please Adam silver just get involved and fire Phil, not the worst GM we’ve ever had, but certainly the most spectacularly, flamboyantly awful

    With regard to Kp, the expression ‘a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush ‘ applies… very hard to trade him for a pick or two

    While everyone loves Porzongis, lets not act like he doesn’t has serious flaws to his game.
    If Phoenix wants to give the 4th pick and we can get a player like Bender, TJ warren. We can Draft De’Aaron Fox. And still have the 8th pick. Personally I think Lauri Markenen will be just as good as Porzingis and he has a better body right now.

    We have not had a “win trade” since Bellamy for Debusschere in 1968. Damn near FIFTY YEARS

    I’m going to stand up for Ernie Grunfeld here. We used to make some good trades. We once got Xavier McDaniel for Jerod Mustaf and Trent Tucker. We also traded John Starks and Charles Oakley for Latrell Sprewell and Marcus Camby, respectively. Both Knicks legends were way past their prime at the time.

    KP and the Knicks haven’t spoken since he skipped the exit meeting. That’s probably why Phil is listening to offers about KP. It’s not like they didn’t speak to KP’s representatives and family directly or anything and hear his thoughts. I’m not happy about this at all. You don’t trade good young players with All NBA potential.

    I know Barack Obama has more important matters on his plate, but can’t he get together with some other rich dudes and buy the Knicks from Dolan? Offer Dolan a 100% premium over the reported value of the franchise? Can even Dolan turn down $6B?

    Mark Zuckerberg grew up in Westchester. Can’t he buy the Knicks? Anyone?!?!

    @IanBegley

    No one from the Knicks organization has been in touch with Kristaps Porzingis since he skipped exit meetings, per league sources.

    @IanBegley
    Janis Porzingis, Kristaps’ brother, to ESPN: “Despite how the Knicks are treating their players, Kris wants to stay in New York.”

    This is fine.

    Yeah, isn’t that an old quote from KP’s camp? Is ESPN just stirring the shit here?

    I don’t think some people here understand how valuable Porzingis is as an asset. Under team control for 3 more years at least on rookie scale. Unbelievable ceiling. Zero off-court concerns. Gym rat. It is not hyperbole to say that he might be one of the top 5-6 assets in the NBA given his age, contract, and ability.

    Seriously this. I think people underestimate how much value there is in the fact that he’s already established himself as a good NBA player. Even the very best draft picks (Fultz, Ball, whoever) there’s a pretty high level of uncertainty. Some of them just won’t ever be good NBA players. KP is already that, despite a horrible situation, and he’s still just 21. You would need to get massive, massive value back for him.

    I’m worried that Phil might also be in the camp who doesn’t realize this.

    We’re all going nuts but we haven’t even heard the leakage of any parameters of a deal. My guess is this is just other teams trolling the Knicks and their fans.

    When I hear specific names of players or teams, then I’ll start to really get upset.

    We have a guy who can shoot, unless we do something stupid like trade him. We need a guy who can get him the ball!

    I agree, and I would love to take Fultz, Ball, or Fox. But we have two players on our roster who are likely to still be in the league four years from now, and played our way down to 8.

    At this point I think we need to draft the player most likely to be an NBA starter rather than go by need. I’m pretty confident we’ll be back in the lottery again next year, so we should have another chance.

    KP for like all the Celtics picks over the next 3 years? I’d think about that.

    There are more starters available at 8 than just monk right?
    Smith for one !

    And watch Kristaps Porzingis become the next great Boston Celtic? Never in my life.

    We’re all going nuts but we haven’t even heard the leakage of any parameters of a deal. My guess is this is just other teams trolling the Knicks and their fans.

    When I hear specific names of players or teams, then I’ll start to really get upset.

    Argh. Ramona Shelburne just tweeted that the Knicks are very interested in Josh Jackson.

    That sort of implies Boston as a trade partner. Or possibly Phoenix, who could send us their own 1st, Miami’s protected 2018 first, and 2021 Miami 1st in addition to guys like Bledsoe, Bender, etc.

    That tweet about us being interested in Jackson is old. A lot of this is just rumor being propped up by older rumors.

    That tweet about us being interested in Jackson is old. A lot of this is just rumor being propped up by older rumors.

    Ramona Shelburne just tweeted it 6 minutes ago. Does that count as old?

    I don’t think some people here understand how valuable Porzingis is as an asset. Under team control for 3 more years at least on rookie scale. Unbelievable ceiling. Zero off-court concerns. Gym rat. It is not hyperbole to say that he might be one of the top 5-6 assets in the NBA given his age, contract, and ability.

    Yeah, I mean, it’s one thing to be disappointed with his lack of development in year 2 (I was), and you might think he’s mildly overrated (I do), but for heaven’s sake don’t let Phil trade him. He’s still the most immensely valuable thing this franchise has, by a mile.

    This would be unprecedented. No one trades players like Porzingis in their rookie contracts.

    If we trade KP and we get back anything less than one of the all-time trade hauls I’m going to lose my mind. His combination of what he can already do, his potential, his age and his contract represent extraordinary value. For the celtics he is more valuable than PG or butler because he would be a win now AND win later move, AND his contract means they can still pursue Hayward.

    But we could acquire 5 first round picks and still have no certainty any would be a potential franchise piece in the way KP is.

    Man I hate this franchise.

    Porzingis is one of the best rim protectors in the league. Markannen has no interior defensive skills whatsoever. His block percentage at Arizona was 1.8%, which would have ranked 92nd in the NBA (among players with at least 1,000 minutes). Porzingis was 4.9%, which ranked 9th. And Markannen is too slow to guard 4s.

    So he’s a jump shooting center that’s completely unplayable on defense. Cool. He should have the All-Star career of a Spencer Hawes or Frank Kaminsky.

    @89
    Completely agree, and would be very upset if we trade KP. And for those who are pondering a sweetheart deal from Boston (the only truly viable trade partner in my opinion), let’s not forget that Ainge pretty much only pulls the trigger on trades that are massively one-sided in his favor

    There are more starters available at 8 than just monk right?
    Smith for one !

    I think Smith will be gone

    @93 Hubert-of course you are right. But Bells for DeB was a WIN trade. Those other are just wins. X-man played 1 good playoff run for us. Spree and Camby were good. More likely, we will see a middling return if KP is traded.

    Trading KP is not just trading a valuable young asset who may (or may not) develop into a great player. You are ripping the heart and soul out of Knicks fans.

    Ainge vs Phil in trade negotiations would be the biggest mismatch since the U.S. invaded Grenada.

    Serious, you guys sound like fake news sheep. I bet you’re the type who think Putin “hacked the election” because Trump has financial shady ties to Russian oligarchs. Believe nothing until it is officially announced and verified. The rest is bullshit.

    @ 118 – man it really pisses me off how much Knicks fans are trolled on the internet and in sports media in general. I get it. we suck. But other teams suck too and have incompetent GMs but bc we’re NYC and there are so many Knicks fans, people have figured out that trolling the Knicks fans base gets them clicks. I really think this contributes to a lot of our problems. Dolan is obviously incompetent and I’m starting to lose faith in Phil but damn it must be hard to run an organization where you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t on every single move. The sports media has created this false idea that the fan base won’t tolerate a rebuild (which is not true at all) but then this creates a situation where if we don’t do rebuild moves everyone can say “see, the Knicks are being dumb by not rebuilding” but then when we do a rebuild move its “the knicks can’t rebuild, their fans won’t tolerate it.” So every single move, even if its a good or just plain fucking average, is scrutinized and criticized and mocked. Its super annoying. There is no objectivity.

    Sorry for the rant. This shit pisses me off. I know we should ignore twitter. Thursday the narrative will change regardless of what we do. At least it will be new news to talk about.

    When Woj and several ESPN people are reporting the same thing after Phil made it clear that KP is on the table given the right offer it’s not at all fake news lol

    Melo trade with CLE and MIN. This would still allow CLE to go after Butler/George with Love. I doubt this would be “enough” for Melo per the narrative, but I would do it in a heartbeat. If MIN wants, we could take on Pekovich and swap the 7/8 as well.

    Melo to CLE
    Rubio to NYK
    Thompson + Shumpert to MIN

    http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y95hoqgu

    If they trade KP I am done with this inept franchise unless they get back a young top 5 player and that ain’t happening. Seems like we might be witnessing Isaiah Part Deux

    The problem is Porzingis saying he would play out his contract and decide his fate is not that big of a threat. Whichever team trade for him would have 3 years to convince him otherwise. I’m sure if he went to Boston and started playing playoff games, was revered by the fans, was going to the ECF and knew that in a year or two if he hung tight they could get to the Finals when LeBron leaves cleveland or declines a bit more…he would stay. Its not a big enough threat. If he only had one year left on his contract that threat would be bigger.

    There’s been a ton of talk about moving on from KP. Actually not a bad idea if you can get back a good return asset-wise. But most of the tales I’ve seen about the subject, whether for or against, has his value..skewed. People mostly talk about his offense when valuing him. Present offense, future expectation of offense..whatever. I think when you’re dealing with a talent like KP, you should weigh where what he brings defensively a little more. IE: do you REALLY want to trade a player that skilled, that young, at that size with that work ethic combined with what he can and WANTS to do defensively? If you weigh that, and the answer is still yes, then you should trade him.
    Look..offensively, he’s already getting nearly 20 a night on raw talent. So we know that once he figures it out, his offense undoubtedly will be better. So why even weigh him by his offense first? The kid is gifted. Smart franchises don’t trade away young, coachable, and gifted talent- unless there is an offer on the table similar to the Herschel Walker trade. Period. Offense is sexy..breathtakingly beautiful and erotic like that gorgeous stranger you meet at the bar or wherever. He or she comes home with you and you’re all excited to get started, but please do not forget the piece that’s just as important as your guest is exciting. Protection. Defense for your health. That beautiful picture could be hiding “HerpAIDS”, then you’re all fucked up lol.

    So evaluate other things before you get into bed with that sexy offense

    @ 122 – I would LOVE that.

    What would be the point of trading for Rubio, though, if we trade KP away.

    I mean is Phil really going to trade the best thing he’s done during his tenure here? Is he that fucking dumb? I think this tweet has to be BS.

    Porzingis’ brother, Janis Porzingis — who also works for Andy Miller, Porzingis’ primary agent — reiterated Tuesday that Porzingis loves New York and wants to win there.

    “Despite how the Knicks are treating their players, Kris wants to stay in New York,” Janis Porzingis said. “He loves the city and he loves the fans and he wants to win with this team. If he’s going to be traded, he’s going to play out his contact and decide his future on his own.”

    Why does it say that Janis said this today?

    When Woj and several ESPN people are reporting the same thing after Phil made it clear that KP is on the table given the right offer it’s not at all fake news lol

    puts on six-dimensional-chess-assistance goggles

    Phil shouldn’t trade KP because Phil should make as few transactions as possible. Phil sucks at transactions. Just pick whoever the best guy is at #8, do the same thing in next year’s draft and stand pat on everything else until your contract runs out, then retire. The more moves Phil makes, the more bad moves he’ll make.

    You guys are biting so hard on fake news. Come down off the wall for a minute:

    1. We won 31 games. No one should be “untouchable”, including a 2nd year big that is only average thus far. And imo, the inmates shouldn’t run the asylum. Phil is doing his job, and these are all hopefully just fake leaks to gain leverage.

    2. Phil just said Melo would have a better chance at a ring elsewhere, which is true btw. Is Melo really that delicate? Oh and p.s. Melo suck at basketball until he can prove otherwise.

    3. Ok – CP3 wants to leave a winning team with a beast front court and a championship coach to join the Knicks but wait… actually doesn’t because the team was mean to Melo? I don’t buy that.

    4. Melo and KP both need a legit pg to operate, which Rose isn’t. Maybe they try that first before imploding the whole team? Maybe they will?

    I’m not saying Phil hasn’t made some fuck ups – he has – but a lot of this is stirring the pot in the country’s largest media market, go figure.

    When Woj and several ESPN people are reporting the same thing after Phil made it clear that KP is on the table given the right offer it’s not at all fake news lol

    LOL. Its the biggest media circuits that repeat the biggest fake news. Look at WashPo printing a CIA planted story about the Russians hacking a Maine grid. This is just speculative hearsay ballooning into full fledged rumor.

    Anyone wanna answer my question in 127?

    Short answer: Fake news.

    Long answer: The same media hacks are trying to start shit.

    Everyone has a price.
    Boston has too many picks.
    #3 and Brooklyn pick next year ( Porter?) for KP. I’m game for that. Rebuild in 1.5 years.

    Before anyone starts rationalizing a Porzingis trade because he’s not yet an All-NBA player, remember:

    1. He has never played with another starter who was interested in making plays for him.
    2. He has played for 3 coaches. One of them tried to turn him into a post-up small forward (Rambis, of course).
    3. He’s been jerked around between different offensive systems, one of which is ridiculously antiquated and hated by all of his teammates.

    Despite the team working against his skillset and generally functioning in an atmosphere of chaos, he averaged 18 ppg on above-average shooting last year. Not to mention his already-excellent defense. If he were playing for even an average team, he would look so much better. If he were playing for a smart team that moves the ball and puts him in position to succeed, like Boston? He could be unbelievable.

    Phil doesn’t value assets properly, so everybody should be scared as hell if he is trying to move Porzingis. He’ll get his clock cleaned in a trade like that. He either won’t trade KP at all, or he’ll make a terrible KP trade.

    1. We won 31 games. No one should be “untouchable”, including a 2nd year big that is only average thus far. And imo, the inmates shouldn’t run the asylum. Phil is doing his job, and these are all hopefully just fake leaks to gain leverage.

    I am one of the more vocal critics of Porzingis, but it’s unlikely that Porzingis would be traded for a legit young star (Jokic) or picks that will capture his “upside,” even if I think his hype is overblown.

    There’s a solid chance that he takes another leap upward with his TS%, especially if Rubio somehow becomes a Knick. A .600 TS%, 20 USG% with great rim protection Porzingis is my expectation and I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

    I never forget that Charlie Ward is the last Knick to be re-signed after the rookie deal. I want this to end.

    More fodder:

    On the Kristaps Porzingis front, one exec who has been in touch with the Knicks describes their asking price as "very aggressive."— Sam Amick (@sam_amick) June 20, 2017

    One person with knowledge of Knicks/Porzingis trade possibility characterized situation as job preservation for front office.— Jeff Zillgitt (@JeffZillgitt) June 20, 2017

    Yeah I think odds are very good that Kristaps becomes at least a good pro. A bit better on offense and a bit better rebounding and you’ve got a nice player, and he’s so young that I think that level of improvement is pretty likely.

    Phil Jackson doesn’t win trades, period. If we trade Porzingis it won’t be for a package that makes sense. Such packages probably exist, but I still wouldn’t take them because at some point we need some fucking credibility. It’s irrelevant though, we won’t be getting one.

    My fandom is on life-support.

    Phil needs to take a couple weeks off to go smoke peyote in the desert, and let Gaines handle the draft.

    Or, alternatively, not be an incompetent and insufferably arrogant GM.

    If I was Danny Ainge I’d give the Knicks 3rd pick, Lakers pick and 1 player on my roster (Thomas, Bradley, Smart, Brown, etc.) for Porzingis— Chad Ford (@chadfordinsider) June 20, 2017

    With that said, there isn't anyone in this draft that I'd trade Porzingis for.— Chad Ford (@chadfordinsider) June 20, 2017

    Cribbed from twitter:

    Phil is insisting that any team who trades for Porzingis must run the triangle.

    OK go about your days. It looks like the whole thing was much ado about nothing.

    From Chris Mannix (The Vertical):

    Growing skepticism among some execs in contact w/New York that the Knicks are serious about a KP deal. Price described as extremely high.

    Twitter is the worst. Without Twitter this wouldn’t have been even a blip on the screen.

    I love Twitter.

    One can imagine that maybe Phil leaked these talks himself — 1) to bring more offers to the table, 2) to troll Knicks fans, 3) to show KP he’s serious that no one is above the team.

    I can’t stand Phil Jackson.

    If the Knicks trade KP to the Celtics, somehow Ainge is going to wind up with 2 more 1st round picks.

    Seriously, imo his is all bullshit designed to generate interest, clicks, send a message to KP etc… There’s no way Phil is trading KP. I put the probabilities at less than 1%.

    It’s brazenly irresponsible to allow this to leak, especially if it was just kicking the tires. I don’t want to hear any bullshit about “fake news,” the people talking about this are a who’s who of reliable NBA reporters. Phil is free to deny everything anytime he wants.

    If you switched Donald Trump and Phil Jackson nobody would know.

    Even if the Knicks’ asking price is insanely high, these reports are further damaging the relationship between the franchise and Porzingis. It’s more bullshit on top of the bullshit that they’ve already heaped on him in two years.

    If this continues, he could easily reach free agency and say, “you know what, I’ve had enough of this” and turn down a rookie extension so he can go somewhere where he’ll enjoy his career.

    If you switched Donald Trump and Phil Jackson nobody would know.

    What are you saying here?

    Is Phil secretly working to get sanctions against Russia removed because western interests assisted in the overthrow of the democratically elected government in Ukraine and pissed Russia off so much they invaded Crimea as a defensive move against the expansion of NATO?

    Does Phil have Russian business connections?

    Damn the NBA is getting too complicated. I just started getting used to TS% instead of FG%.

    (going for the laugh here guys)

    I mean if all Phil Jackson was doing was putting it out there to see if anyone would bite on a lopsided offer in favor of the Knicks, how can we honestly be mad at him?

    I love KP. The idea of trading him hurts my soul. And yeah I would be worried, bc of the Knicks, that it would not be in our favor. But now that its coming out that he was only asking for something really high, how is that not good due diligence? If Boston offered him a ton of first round picks (including their nets pick this year and next) and offered to take Noah off his hands, I mean wouldn’t you have to take that?

    Much ado about nothing but lets assign it to Phil’s massive ego and him being an asshole bc we all know he’s the worst, right?

    Being an NBA player means having to deal with trade rumors, especially when you are a valuable asset worth trading for. If you honestly think this is damaging any relationship he has with the Knicks, then you must think KP is extremely soft.

    Plus he has 3 years to fix any damage.

    Again, much ado about nothing. Twitter is dumb.

    The last trade the Knicks made that was an outright win was definitely on June 25th, 1998 when Grunfeld traded an aging Oakley + cash for 23 year old Marcus Camby.

    That is the kind of trade a healthy franchise with a smart front office makes: know when to hold ’em, no when to fold ’em. The Knicks needed to get younger and bet on a kid that was a) under-achieving but drenched with talent, and b) inexplicably available.

    That said, Porzingis is probably the 2017 equivalent of Raptor’s Camby right now, so they should learn from their own past success and be very wary of trading him (especially for an aging player that brings veteran leadership!)

    That said, there are certainly scenarios where the Knicks trade Porzingis and come out on top, so there is no reason that Phil Jackson shouldn’t be taking offers.

    Is Phil secretly working to get sanctions against Russia removed because western interests assisted in the overthrow of the democratically elected government in Ukraine and pissed Russia off so much they invaded Crimea as a defensive move against the expansion of NATO?

    Quoth several posters:

    WHERE’S THE EVIDENCE????????

    Twitter is dumb.

    So true. Only thing dumber are the people who take it too seriously.

    Twitter isn’t dumb, but people overreacting to pretty much anything on Twitter is dumb. I know that Woj has a rep for breaking real news early, like on trades, etc. But his two tweets on KP this morning was just bs pot stirring.

    I hope he enjoyed the attention. Hey, if the Knicks end up trading KP and drafting LM with the 8 pick, we can all kneel and worship!

    Rumor has it that the Knicks are interested in Josh Jackson and have identified him as the top prospect in the draft. Let me be clear..there is no one..NO ONE in this draft worth trading KP for. However, there is but one trade I would consider involving KP and this year’s draft. KP & KOQ to Sacramento for WCS, the 5, the 10, and next year’s 1st. That’s it. A shot at Ball and another 1st would certainly be tempting, but I’m not as sold on his considerable talent as most are. Other than that, Phil shouldn’t even be fielding calls about KP. Not this season anyway. You have a chance to draft a young player to grow alongside him at 8. The only thing worth turning away from that is a Herschel Walker type trade.

    @140

    Funny, I was thinking about the same thing today. I think that Nate and David Lee were both technically signed to 1 year qualifying offers. It doesn’t change your point though. As far as I can tell, Ward is the last Knick to be signed to a multiyear deal after his rookie contract ran. That’s insane.

    I’m a minority here but if I’m Phil Jackson there is a chance that I will trade porzingis. Sometimes as a gm you need to be respected and there’s some insubordination from porzingis. Also I will only trade him for picks and young players (not like the previous gm whomtrade our youngster to underachieving vets). Also I can hit the lottery if I trade kp with Noah for salary dump and 2 top 5 picks. I think that’s reasonable.

    Is Phil secretly working to get sanctions against Russia removed because western interests assisted in the overthrow of the democratically elected government in Ukraine and pissed Russia off so much they invaded Crimea as a defensive move against the expansion of NATO?

    Actually, this is true. Whoever wrote this actually double checks his sources and doesn’t listen to what the mainstream American media repeats from the Pentagon without evidence. Obama himself admitted the US “had brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine” during an interview with Fareed Zakaria. Here is the interview. Here is an intelligent piece contextualizing Putin’s move against the Crimea as a response to the westward expansion of NATO after the collapse of the Soviet Union despite reassurances from Washington officials that it wouldn’t happen.

    I’m a minority here but if I’m Phil Jackson there is a chance that I will trade porzingis. Sometimes as a gm you need to be respected and there’s some insubordination from porzingis.

    I’m not going to even touch this take without an oven mitt.

    the kings can’t trade both their picks this year and next year’s pick.. they owe that future pick to the sixers and now the celtics…

    Actually, this is true. Whoever wrote this actually double checks his sources and doesn’t listen to what the mainstream American media repeats from the Pentagon without evidence. Obama himself admitted the US “had brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine” during an interview with Fareed Zakaria. Here is the interview. Here is an intelligent piece contextualizing Putin’s move against the Crimea as a response to the westward expansion of NATO after the collapse of the Soviet Union despite reassurances from Washington officials that it wouldn’t happen

    hey i was thinking about ruining this site. anyone have any good ideas how?

    Regarding KP, I sense hack journalism at play here.

    I was just going through the articles pertaining to this story. One detail that y’all missed is that teams are finding Phil’s value for KP to be extremely high. As in 4-5 assets or more. Basically a Hershal Walker trade caliber haul.

    If there’s another team thats willing to do that, sure, why not? After all, some of those GMs are fairly dumb too.

    the kings can’t trade both their picks this year and next year’s pick.. they owe that future pick to the sixers and now the celtics…

    Ah! Yes! I forgot..thanks. Swap that next year’s first for a future unprotected 1st then- I would still consider that. 3 top 10 picks in this year’s draft plus our 2 seconds would jump-start the rebuild. KP plus Hield would be good building blocks for Sacto as well. Hell..I would even throw in Randle.

    I saw this, and I’m honestly will bite this deal. –

    If I was Danny Ainge I’d give the Knicks 3rd pick, Lakers pick and 1 player on my roster (Thomas, Bradley, Smart, Brown, etc.) for Porzingis— Chad Ford (@chadfordinsider) June 20, 2017

    The one place that has the package we’d want is the one place we will NEVER send him, so there’s that.

    Phil might be meeting with Markkanen as pushback on Minnesota thinking that they could swap #7 for #9 and then grab Markkanen with that lower pick. Chess, not checkers.

    There’s no way that Suns rumor is true – at the very least it’s incomplete. If I’m the Suns I would do #4 + Booker for KP in about 2 seconds.

    Now Phil boxed himself in a little :
    If he trades him he better get a great return of young players and assets. lots of pressure.
    If he doesn’t trade him, he will have an even more unhappy camper on the roster who is supposed to be the face of the franchise going forward. 🙁 not a good look for the franchise or helpful for morale.

    Sounds like a lose/lose situation unless he hits a home run on the trade – not likely, especially if dealing with Ainge. The Knicks will get hosed for sure (again).

    I am not for trading KP, what’s the point of acquiring good young assets if you are just trading them away and starting over every couple of years?? However, one issue that is somewhat of a concern that doesn’t get a lot of pub is KP’s stamina. He seems to wear down in the second half a lot. To really become a star he would have to be able to carry the team or shoulder a significant load in crunch time. This is the one thing that would worry me about him going forward unless that issue gets resolved. If the Knicks feel this is a big enough issue along with the obviously strained relationship, maybe trading him now would be wise, IF they get a great return. That is a sized IF.

    Phil should be fired on the spot if all he wanted from Phoenix was Booker and the #4 pick lol

    Come to think of it his head should be rolling for allowing this leak and poisoning his relationship w KP further

    Trending on Twitter:
    “trading porzingis is drawing a 19 in blackjack and telling the dealer to hit”

    There’s no way that Suns rumor is true – at the very least it’s incomplete. If I’m the Suns I would do #4 + Booker for KP in about 2 seconds.

    That’s a non-starter. Phoenix loves Booker (right or wrong, who cares), and wants to pair him with Porzingis. This has been talked about by the Phoenix media.

    Phoenix probably countered with some combination of: #4, Chriss, Bender, Ulis, 2018 Miami rounder, 2021 Miami 1st rounder

    It’s not the worst package, and it’s frankly worth considering. Knicks have a long ways to go and could use a re-stocked cupboard.

    Whatever Phil’s doing, I love it. F— the Wolves, Mavs, and the rest. He should be screwing with them as much as possible. I’m sure he’s had his big board set for a little while and is just testing to see how much he can move up/down while losing the min/gaining the max. Part of the job.

    Again, no one should be untouchable. If we can gain the 2nd-5th pick, another high pick this year or next year and a good young player we should take it. We might be able to get even more than that. This is asymmetrical warfare. The Art or War. Three dimensional chess. Call it what you will.

    It’s all on KP for being such a dick as to walk out on the exit meeting, ignore entreaties from his caring, loving head coach, and willfully disobey what we wanted from him in the offseason. He’s gone from my favorite NBA icon to just another spoiled kid asset that we can use as a player on our team or trade in an upgrade. Nothing more.

    To anyone who thinks that trading porzingis could work needs to look at all the players still on their rookie contract next year. All players on their 4th year or younger. Porzingis is the third best one. After Towns and Jokic there isn’t a single player drafted in the last 3 years or any of the prospects this year I would take over Porzingis.

    After Towns and Jokic there isn’t a single player drafted in the last 3 years or any of the prospects this year I would take over Porzingis.

    What about a plethora of players and picks? (Eat your heart out, Stephen Stills)

    @186 But are there 3 of those players that you would take for Porzingis? Say Ball or Isaac, Doncic plus another good young player? That would have to be taken seriously. Then you throw in KP’s rotten attitude and it’s even more tempting. He’s been acting like a spoiled brat.

    It’s all on KP for being such a dick as to walk out on the exit meeting, ignore entreaties from his caring, loving head coach, and willfully disobey what we wanted from him in the offseason. He’s gone from my favorite NBA icon to just another spoiled kid asset that we can use as a player on our team or trade in an upgrade. Nothing more.

    This take is so hot I had to put on sunglasses.

    That was a great article Lavor – congrats sir 🙂

    This is all about Phil’s ego. Porzingis was untouchable right up until he skipped the exit meeting and called the team dysfunctional.

    Phil doesn’t care if the team sucks. He doesn’t care if his mind games create stress and chaos in the locker room. He doesn’t care if his stupid triangle religion makes us score 50 points a game. But if anyone dares to suggest that he is something less than the Almighty Genius of Basketball, that’s where he draws the line.

    Porzingis made Phil look bad. An egomaniac cannot abide that.

    crazy to think that KP on the market was an emotional reaction from our Phil, but, yeah – sure seems that way…

    KP should stay – it’ll be interesting to see what happens on Thursday though…

    it’s funny to see these ridiculous mind/media games going on…what sorta worked for Phil back in his coaching days is now simply putting him (us) in worse and worse situations…

    does it annoy anyone else that when Dolan is asked any question reference the knicks he sorta giggles to himself and states – “ask phil”…what the fuck is that???

    pay a guy who’s never been an exec 12 mil just so you don’t have to answer for your teams performance…what a tool…

    with the 24 mil that dolan could have saved this summer letting phil walk – jerry west probably could have been sitting somewhere in manhatten right now figuring out how to unfuck ourselves…

    If Phil manages to convert Kristaps Porzingis into Devin Booker and the #4 pick in this draft you almost have to be impressed with the sheer dunderfuckery of it all.

    This take is so hot I had to put on sunglasses.

    In a few days Reub’ll contradict this take when it benefits him to say something equally as stupid. Do yourself a favor and treat the guy like fungus. Feed him shit and keep him in the dark.

    I love the continued insistence that Phil’s constant bumbling is all some masterful mind game. There is ZERO evidence to support that theory. He has made bad personnel moves, alienated most of his players, cycled through coaches, and most importantly, lost a lot of games. The standings don’t lie.

    Phil is not playing chess. He is not manipulating other teams. He is not secretly motivating his players. He’s just an arrogant boob who’s in over his head in a job he’s not suited for. That’s it. What you see is what you get.

    Phil is not playing chess. He is not manipulating other teams. He is not secretly motivating his players. He’s just an arrogant boob who’s in over his head in a job he’s not suited for. That’s it. What you see is what you get.

    This isn’t very 6th dimensional.

    I love the continued insistence that Phil’s constant bumbling is all some masterful mind game. There is ZERO evidence to support that theory. He has made bad personnel moves, alienated most of his players, cycled through coaches, and most importantly, lost a lot of games. The standings don’t lie.

    He dinn’t inherit any first round picks doe

    If Phil manages to convert Kristaps Porzingis into Devin Booker and the #4 pick in this draft you almost have to be impressed with the sheer dunderfuckery of it all.

    lol yes, that would be amazing. wonderphil.

    Yeah the second we get rid of that malcontent Porzingis we’ll be On Our Way To Greatness

    The real fungus is a guy who is so arrogant that no one else is even allowed in his discussions.
    A guy that discards Twitter even as he reposts tweets.
    Stick him in a room and stick a salami in his mouth to keep him quiet.

    “He dinn’t inherit any first round picks doe”

    He could, if he wants to, turn his only inherited first round pick into three before our very eyes. But that still wouldn’t calm the haters in here.

    Phil is listening to calls but the price is astronomical. Very good.

    I don’t think he ever intends to trade him. I think Jackson knows Zinger wants to play in/stay in NYC and this is a warning shot to keep him in line.

    Oh, is that a way to boost Kristaps’s contentment with the team? Why not just call him and tell him he’s your franchise player?

    I’ve been KP’s biggest supporter on here and love what he brings on the court. That being said he’s been acting liked a spoiled brat and he hasn’t earned that right with his play or his injuries. If he’s going to put himself above the team we should try to get a great package for him. There’s nothing wrong with that.

    @203
    Well, there have been reports that he’s refused to return calls from Hornacek…
    🙂

    All this stuff is somewhat entertainingly silly.

    Nate Silver gave Trump a higher chance of winning than just about any pundit or prognosticator and took a lot of heat for it.

    Reub predicted the 2016-2017 Knicks would win 55 games.

    Nate Silver gave Hillary a 71.4% chance of winning against Trump but tweet him if that’s the best that you can do.

    So, the only people we should listen to are people who have never been wrong?

    (Aren’t you the guy here that is wrong about pretty much everything, yet continues to blabber?)

    All this stuff is somewhat entertainingly silly.

    Pretty much. That’s what NBA Twitter rumor mill is good for. Laughing at the bullshit you see there.

    @204 Philmelo: That chart seems a bit subjective and I’d like to know how they value expected FGA. Also, what effect (if any) does fouling have on the chart? KP is elite at rim protection and I think he will get better as he gets stronger. Two surprises: Myles Turner and O’Quinn. it was interesting to see KO’Q pretty high on the list. I think we have enough big man minutes to go around to keep him, unless a good deal presents itself.

    This Cleveland stuff? This Knicks stuff? This is why you cant legislate against the Warriors being good. Teams hurt themselves.— (dun)Kirk (@KirkSeriousFace) June 20, 2017

    You know what? As much as I hate it, this guy is 100 percent dead balls accurate. If I am the owner of a dominant team being told by fans and the media that my team has to be kept in check by the league I would freak out knowing that I would be penalized for running my franchise correctly while other franchises continue to falter by themselves.

    @204 Philmelo: That chart seems a bit subjective and I’d like to know how they value expected FGA. Also, what effect (if any) does fouling have on the chart?

    Another gentleman raises the same issues you do about the difficulty of calculating FGA by posting these two article problematizing the stat.

    I'd be interested in where you're getting Defended FG% from? You should read @knarsu3 on the challenges: https://t.co/p696nqg6ZF— Bo Schwartz Madsen (@BoSchwartz) June 20, 2017

    this one also https://t.co/sycrx7vyGE— Nate (@bbstats) June 20, 2017

    You know what? As much as I hate it, this guy is 100 percent dead balls accurate. If I am the owner of a dominant team being told by fans and the media that my team has to be kept in check by the league I would freak out knowing that I would be penalized for running my franchise correctly while other franchises continue to falter by themselves.

    That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t raise the cap on the pay of the league’s best players.

    But, yes, Robin. I also think KP’s elite FGA defense does have to be contextualized against his shortcomings as both a defensive rebounder and his propensity to defensively foul.

    Trending on Twitter:
    “trading porzingis is drawing a 19 in blackjack and telling the dealer to hit”

    You realize it is correct to split 10’s in BJ when the true count per deck is > 5, right? It is more + EV to split your 10’s rather than to stand on them.

    Thinking outside the box correctly is usually a great strategy…. the only question is can Phil weigh KP’s future accurately and get better than equal value?

    Nate Silver also predicted that there were 12.5% odds of a coin landing heads three times in a row, but guess what? Guess what I just did, reub! Guess! You’ll never guess!

    That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t raise the cap on the pay of the league’s best players.

    I don’t have a problem with that so long as its not done to penalize well run franchises. You don’t fix a league by appealing to the lower common denominator.

    Nate Silver never predicted that. Stop making things up about Phil and about Nate Silver.
    Again, no player is above the team. Especially a snot-nosed unicorn.
    I like his game but if we could trade him and get better then why the hell not?

    I have it on good authority that Phil leaked the Lauri Markkanen lunch and the possibility of trading Porzingis as a way of leading other teams to believe he, the Knicks scouting staff, and especially Clarence Gaines think Markkanen is a prospect on a similar level to Porzingis. The goal here is to encourage someone above the Knicks to draft Markkanen so the player they want is more likely to drop down to them.

    If you join my Patreon service for $4 monthly I will gladly give you more insights and hot tips like this on a regular basis.

    Signed,

    StratomaticTommyDee

    #TrustTheZen

    It’s 122 degrees today in Phoenix. I hope that KP knows that.

    lower common denominator.

    hmmmm, the knicks certainly resemble that remark…but, we need every little bit of help we can get…

    maybe adam silver could institute some type of handicap system wherein the worst teams in the league year over year get spotted 10 to 15 points at the beginning of each game…that seems pretty fair…heck – we might even reach .500 with that…

    On a lighter note, ESPN is using analytics to determine the likelihood of who will be an All-Star, a starter or just a role player from this year’s draft. Frank Ntilikina blew away the field with a 13.9% chance of becoming an All-Star. Second was Fox at 8.3%.

    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19681478/most-likely-all-stars-starters-role-players-top-2017-nba-draft

    There is no truth to the rumor that this study was done by Nate Silver, btw.

    Note: Frank also has a 59% chance of being a bust. Lol!

    I can believe the Markkanen leak is to discourage Minnesota from trading to 9. They’ve been linked to Msrkkanen in multiple mocks.

    I can believe the Markkanen leak is to discourage Minnesota from trading to 9. They’ve been linked to Msrkkanen in multiple mocks.

    I was half going for a joke and half serious, but it’s not impossible. #TrustTheZen

    Howard Beck just tweeted that the KP kerfuffle today was all made up. He cited a “plugged in source” which very well could be Phil Jackson himself.

    the espn analytics nba draft model… the non-pelton version… is not good….

    We’re going to trade KP for a bag of balls.
    Chris Paul would’ve come here if PJ was nicer to Melo.
    The Celtics added another draft pick, which will end up being a lottery pick (after Simmons and Embid end up sharing a hospital bed next year).
    Tell me why I should have hope? In what decade do we think the Knicks will have a shot of winning it all? I’m thinking that it’s not in my lifetime.

    Reub predicted the 2016-2017 Knicks would win 55 games.

    lmao.

    I’d trade Porzingis for the right package, but I wouldn’t trade him because the Knicks are far away from contending. To contend, or at least be in the running, you need 2-3 really good players. Porzingis might turn into one of those guys, and he’s 21.

    If that Booker trade proposal is real Phil should be overthrown by force.

    Funny, I was thinking about the same thing today. I think that Nate and David Lee were both technically signed to 1 year qualifying offers. It doesn’t change your point though. As far as I can tell, Ward is the last Knick to be signed to a multiyear deal after his rookie contract ran. That’s insane.

    The qualifying offers are still technically part of your rookie contract. They’re, in effect, option years at the end of the rookie contract.

    If Phil had Ainge’s record of success, this Twitter kerfuffle would have been seen as a genius move to sow confusion before the draft. But…he doesn’t. And so everyone flips out about terrible Phil and his stupid moves etc.

    Reality is that we aren’t trading KP, and either this was deliberately done to mess with Minny and others, deliberately done to see what apples might fall from the tree (Boston’s picks the best possibility), or NOT done. The latter seems much more likely to me, but in any event, would it be crazy to listen to trade offers for a valuable player on a terrible team more than one piece from contending?

    Keep your blood pressure down and don’t jump to silly conclusions about Phil trading KP for Devin Booker and a #4. Please. You are part of the problem.

    Woj said it on Twitter, though, so you can’t believe it. 😉

    Seriously, though, wow, Magic really thinks that the Lakers are going to sign everyone, doesn’t he?

    That deal works really well for the Nets. Lopez had no future there and all they had to do to get Russell was eat a bad contract during a time that they’ll suck anyways. Russell is going to love Kenny Atkinson.

    That’s how you can use your cap space to acquire young talent if you’re willing to admit to yourself that the team is not going to be good next year. The Knicks will sign some savvy triangular vets to chase 41 wins instead though.

    Great trade for BK. Brooklyn is going to be better than the Knicks after coming from an even deeper hole than them

    Fuck this franchise

    That’s how you can use your cap space to acquire young talent if you’re willing to admit to yourself that the team is not going to be good next year. The Knicks will sign some savvy triangular vets to chase 41 wins instead though.

    Yep and…well, hopefully not yep. 🙂

    Brooklyn is going to be better than the Knicks after coming from an even deeper hole than them

    Fuck this franchise

    Relax the Knicks have the 8th pick

    Bwahahaha! The Nets have Bustell. I know that Atkinson is supposed to be some kind of genius who will turn water into wine but do people really think this will enhance their team in any significant way? Don’t get me wrong, it was a good trade to get something of value for Lopez. But Bustell is still Bustell.

    Player playing the most difficult position in the NBA for only two years, one year where he literally had to play for Byron Scott’s Kobe Farewell Tour = bust, apparently

    If the Nets (or most any other team) did it and the Knicks didn’t do it then the Nets (or any other team) are geniuses and the Knicks are morons. You can hear this kind of reasoning every day on this site.

    Yeah I would call Russell a bust. But remember he Nets don’t have a pick next year. I think the Knicks are still ahead of the Nets because of Willy, KP and this 8th pick. (Hopefully Monk or Smith)

    Yes, the Knicks are categorically the worst franchise in professional sports. Phil hasn’t changed a damn thing

    The only really useful thing I learned on KBlogger today is the identity of Tommy Dee’s username here!
    🙂

    Magic’s Banana Boat is in the making!

    Player playing the most difficult position in the NBA for only two years, one year where he literally had to play for Byron Scott’s Kobe Farewell Tour = bust, apparently

    I know its fashionable to blame Byron Scott for everything that went wrong during his tenure with the Lakers. But here’s the problem with this scapegoating – the Lakers just traded their 2nd overall pick from 2 years ago for Brook Lopez’s expiring contract. What does that tell you about what the Lakers FO and coaching staff thinks about Bustell’s future? Remember, Scott wasn’t HC last season so it was a new coaching staff evaluating Bustell.

    Well the good news is Magic might be dumber than Phil Jackson

    Maybe this means Melo is headed to LA?

    Unfortunately, it means Lebron is going there.

    What does that tell you about what the Lakers FO and coaching staff thinks about Bustell’s future?

    That Magic is an idiot?

    The Lakers committed highway robbery in that trade. The Nets suck and need Phil Jackson badly.

    Seriously, Russell could be a bust (Although there are still hope for a 21 yo kid), but Lopez is massively overrated and overpaid.

    @254

    It tells me that they’re trying to make a misguided play for PG and Lebron in 2018

    Are we seriously believing that GMs are infallible in player evaluation when this one gave Luol Deng and Mozgov huge money? And they managed to replace Kupchak with someone who is even worse at that job in Magic

    That Magic is an idiot?

    Ah, so I see now. Magic will be the new scapegoat for people who will hold hope Bustell is just misued and poorly coached. You might as well add Luke Walton and his coaching staff to that equation too.

    How is Magic an idiot for that trade? They just got that stupid Mozgov signing off the books and got another pick. What am I missing?

    “the team that’s picking me has orange as part of their color scheme.”

    Malik Monk

    From the Nets perspective though even if you don’t really value Russell (I’m pretty meh on him myself), this is just a smart asset move. Particularly if you can pump his value now, which they’re in a great position to do. Take an offense only guy, turn him lose in a pretty PG friendly offensive system on a team where it can be his show and he’s going to put up some counting stats. Even if they’re completely empty calories, you’re improving his value to some other team. Then you flip him into two more assets.

    We call this the Michael Carter-Williams plan. Focusing too much on whether you like a specific player or not is silly when your team is terrible. Take a penny, trade it for a nickel some other team is willing to part with, shine the nickel up to make it look like a dime, and trade it for a quarter because some team overvalues dimes. That’s how you start to rehabilitate a horrible situation.

    They gave away a #2 pick who’s only 21 so they can have the privilege of whiffing on Lebron next year when he goes to the Clippers to play with CP3. Its Knicksian.

    And a #27 pick is meh

    Good post, Tsam.

    Are we seriously believing that GMs are infallible in player evaluation when this one gave Luol Deng and Mozgov huge money?

    Two different coaching staffs in two years just gave up on this kid. Scott’s criticisms have been well documented and you can bet Walton was consulted before this rarity of a trade was made. Regardless of what you think about Magic, that’s a problematic track record.

    Also, you say the Lakers are making a misguided play for Lebron, but if they believed Russell was any good wouldn’t they keep him and his cost controlled rookie contract so he can be the Kyrie Irving sidekick he’d want? They don’t.

    Lebron won’t play with Ball and PG and possibly Melo?

    How is Magic an idiot for that trade?

    Lakers has no business signing an overrated and expensive center. They are not even close to be good in the near future.

    The 27th pick is fine, getting rid of Mosgov is even better. But next year they will be a lottery team without a pick.

    No, he wants to play with the banana boat in the twilight of his career, not PG.

    Lopez’ contract expires next year, MSA. They’re not resigning him I think.

    The trade has less to do with Russell and more with the free agents that Magic is convinced that he will get to come to the Lakers next year. The best prospect at the Lakers pick plays the same position as Russell. The easiest way to clear out cap space to sign the theoretical great free agents to come to L.A. was to deal Russell. Magic might be right (hopefully, for his sake, his belief in how willing free agents are to come play for him is more accurate than Phil Jackson’s was) and he will get two big names to come there next season, but that’s what this is about – him clearing out cap room to be able to sign free agents and Russell being the most expendable asset to achieve that goal because of Ball.

    I will restate that the Nets made a smart move for their franchise. They have every right to acquire as many low value assets they can in hopes of increasing their value. That’s what smart franchises do. But, please, don’t tell me Russell is a difference maker. If a team trades a 2nd round pick two years after drafting him something is up.

    Yes, “something” was up – them picking at #2 again and having a player who plays the same position as Russell being the top player there (and a better prospect now than Russell was then), plus a strong need to clear out cap space to sign big name free agents the following season and having to attach a good asset to clear said cap space.

    The Knicks once traded a first round draft pick (when they sucked) just to clear out cap space (and I totally forgot that they also traded swap rights in that same deal for the following season).

    That’s a curious trade from the Lakers’ perspective. I’d have tried to send Ingram to the Nets instead. That guy truly sucks. I can squint my eyes and see how Russell could be a successful NBA player but I don’t see it with Ingram at all.

    No, he wants to play with the banana boat in the twilight of his career, not PG.

    You’re telling me he wouldn’t want to play with a talented young guard whose affordable contract would his team to load it with other banana boat veterans? Okay.

    The best prospect at the Lakers pick plays the same position as Russell.

    Lonzo Ball could easily accommodate a shooter like Russell. In this league you can’t have enough.

    Interesting trade. Like I said yesterday, the off-season has already been more interesting the entirety of the playoffs.

    Depending how high you were on Russell, I think this comes out as pretty even for both sides. Nets continue with their MO and Lakers clear space while getting a serviceable player and a pick back. Will be interesting to see what Atkins can do with Russell.

    Throwing this out there, but does Magic make a play for George now? Is 27, 28, Randle and Clarkson enough for Indiana?

    Can anyone find a comparable situation where a team trades a top 3 pick after two years of playing?

    The idea that Russell plays the same position as Ball is the reason the Lakers traded the former is a wacky one. For one thing, Russell really isn’t much of a PG. For another, in this league you can’t have enough ballhandlers who can shoot 3s in your backcourt. And for another, Russell shared PG duties with Clarkson anyway before Ball was an option.

    @280

    We disagree about Russell’s relative value/the premise behind the trade but this is correct–Lonzo and Russell would be fine together

    Brooklyn gave up Lavert too, who played well for them. Nets have a ton of guards now.

    If the reason is to open cap space for future free agents, the trade makes sense for both teams.

    The trade however doesn’t say anything about Russell. We spent the whole day discussing the possibility of trading KP after his 2nd season.

    Patrick Beverley is being shopped.

    man, i dream of him and jonathon simmons wearing knick gear…

    Perception is a funny thing, the masses think Booker and Wiggins are great but Russell is trash when they are not far off from each other.

    I agree, great trade for the Nets. And Russell will probably play the two (leaving Lin at the one), which he has shown signs of being very good at. Remember, bad teams make players look worse. The Nets traded one good player from a bad team (Lopez) for two players (Mozgov and Russell) on a bad team. Talent wise the Nets did well. I predict the Nets will be better than the Lakers this coming season. But the trade could work for LA too if it means they George in a year.

    If the reason is to open cap space for future free agents, the trade makes sense for both teams. The trade however doesn’t say anything about Russell.

    If the Lakers believed Russell was going to flourish beyond what he is now, they wouldn’t be in a rush to sign so many FAs.

    Losing Levert changes things for this trade–he’s gonna be a good player imo. Much closer to a wash, now.

    The Lakers got Levert? Not sure it was a good deal for the Nets in that case

    Perception is a funny thing, the masses think Booker and Wiggins are great but Russell is trash when they are not far off from each other.

    I have the benefit of knowing all three are pretty trashy.

    I love when teams sign players to huge, terrible deals and then the GM gets praised (or at least excused) when packaging intriguing physical specimens with a high ceiling to unload that contract.

    Someday, when Jackson packages 2 future firsts to unload the Noah deal, I hope we get the same treatment.

    Yeah I’m see seeing updates saying Levert is not part of the deal. Good on BK

    I don’t like BKN giving up 27 when they’re taking on the worst contract and gave up the current best player in the deal. Still a good deal for them overall, just don’t like that detail.

    I do agree that losing #27 was odd, as taking Mozgov seemed like it could have been enough.

    Can anyone find a comparable situation where a team trades a top 3 pick after two years of playing?

    Chris Webber

    Can anyone find a comparable situation where a team trades a top 3 pick after two years of playing?

    Just in the last ten years:

    Bennett was the #1 pick and was traded after one year (the #2 pick that year was traded after three years).

    Derrick Favors (#3 pick) was traded in the middle of his first season.

    Hasheem Thabeet (#2 pick) was traded in the middle of his second season.

    Michael Beasley (#2 pick) was traded after his second season.

    Lopez has 1 year left on his deal for those who don’t realize that. I think the Lakers are highly Ingram because of his height and versatility. I would keep Clarkson if I were them.

    PG13is definitely coming so it’s not like the Lakers are hoping and wishing. If no Lebron then they will get some one else and they have 3 #1 draft picks this year. I like it.

    Damn BC the only one close to being a good #2 pick was favors and he was only picked because boogie is a head case

    It’s weird – the curse of the #2 pick, right? Kevin Durant is lucky his career has worked out as well as it has as a #2 pick! Who was the #2 pick in the Hill/Kidd draft? Kidd, right? So that worked out, too! 🙂

    1997 Keith Van Horn
    1998 Mike Bibby
    1999 Steve Francis
    2000 Stromile Swift
    2001 Tyson Chandler
    2002 Jay Williams
    2003 Darko Milicic
    2004 Emeka Okafor
    2005 Marvin Williams
    2006 LaMarcus Aldridge
    2007 Kevin Durant
    2008 Michael Beasley
    2009 Hasheem Thabeet
    2010 Evan Turner
    2011 Derrick Williams
    2012 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
    2013 Victor Oladipo
    2014 Jabari Parker
    2015 D’Angelo Russell
    2016 Brandon Ingram

    Wow, that’s a pile of iffiness, but Chandler and Durant!

    In other rumors, the Lakers are supposedly offering the @27 and 28 picks and either Clarkson or Randle for George.

    Gee, how about Melo for any ONE of those 4 pieces? Get the Banana Boat started!
    🙂

    Bennett was the #1 pick and was traded after one year (the #2 pick that year was traded after three years).

    Bust.

    Derrick Favors (#3 pick) was traded in the middle of his first season.

    Bust.

    Hasheem Thabeet (#2 pick) was traded in the middle of his second season.

    Bust.

    Michael Beasley (#2 pick) was traded after his second season.

    Mega-Bust.

    And Chris Webber was traded in exchange for Penny Hardaway and three future first round draft picks.

    Wow, that’s a pile of iffiness, but Chandler and Durant!

    A low-volume role player and a mentally-weak ring chaser. Bah, all duds.

    We probably need to make the Portland trade. This is Evan Turner on Twitter:

    Question: if you were in Phil Jackson’s shoes and Ms. Buss said that she would get back w/ u if u trade Porzingas to the lakers, would u?

    Can anyone find a comparable situation where a team trades a top 3 pick after two years of playing?

    Just in the last ten years:

    Bennett was the #1 pick and was traded after one year (the #2 pick that year was traded after three years).

    Derrick Favors (#3 pick) was traded in the middle of his first season.

    Hasheem Thabeet (#2 pick) was traded in the middle of his second season.

    Michael Beasley (#2 pick) was traded after his second season.

    There was the aforementioned Camby to the the Knicks trade, too.

    Question: if you were in Phil Jackson’s shoes and Ms. Buss said that she would get back w/ u if u trade Porzingas to the lakers, would u?

    That is beyond hilarious.

    I guess Sam Bowie in 1984 is low-hanging fruit?

    Or Shawn Bradley?

    I figured 20 years was a nice, round number. 🙂

    And Chris Webber was traded in exchange for Penny Hardaway and three future first round draft picks.

    Then after his first year he was traded from the warriors to the bullets for Tom guggliotta and a gaggle of first round picks

    Then after his first year he was traded from the warriors to the bullets for Tom guggliotta and a gaggle of first round picks

    Its close to the Bustell trade since Lopez = Guggliotta. But those first rounders are valuable.

    @284 Yes, geo, Beverley and Simmons would be nice. Beverley’s salary has 2 years left on it at $10 million per, a big bargain. Add in Monk because he says he’s being drafted by a team that wears orange (the Suns won’t be it). Of course we’ll win 55 games if that happens.

    @308 Evan Turner is an absolute riot and would be worth his big salary just in laughs. Plus we’d get #15 too.

    Per source, Jimmy Butler has informed Cavs that he wants to stay in Chicago rather than be traded to Cleveland.— David Aldridge (@daldridgetnt) June 21, 2017

    Then after his first year he was traded from the warriors to the bullets for Tom guggliotta and a gaggle of first round picks

    yeah and if you remember two of the picks in those two Webber trades were actually the same picks and one turned out to be Vince carter.

    Magic Johnson is an idiot

    For me, it’s hard to get too worked up over a trade that is probably a modest win-win, but to call Magic an idiot is pretty idiotic in itself. He’s exactly one move into his plan, and Russell hasn’t exactly been a model building block: for one, he has been pretty bad on the court, and for two, I suspect he isn’t all that well liked off of the court by his teammates (Google it if you’ve forgotten), and for three, he’ll be replaced by a better prospect in less than 48 hours.

    Jesus the NBA off-season is definitely starting to become better than the regular season every year lol

    Now we have the Lakers, Clippers, Miami and Chicago as potential destinations for Melo. I wish he’d consider Portland too because they have assets but I doubt that he would.

    This Dwight deal is hard to fathom. Atlanta is barely even saving money, why move down 10 spots?

    Dwight to Charlotte for a bag of beans. Yowch

    I agree. Specifically it is Howard for “Miles Plumlee, Marco Belinelli and the 41st overall pick for Howard and the 31st pick” per RealGM. This is a much better deal than they did for Ibaka. Howard is not the most popular teammate, but he was effective in Atlanta. I think he will help Charlotte. Atlanta is going to have to work its magic with the draft picks.

    So much for Dwight finishing his career in his home town. The trade is a mea culpa by the FO, and if the specs are true, then they have pretty much gotten a peanuts return pending how much use you think you can get out of Plumlee and Belinelli IMO.

    Atlanta has a new GM, and this is his first major move? Howard does seem to wear out his welcome quickly.

    Clifford has worked with Howard before and apparently got along well with him. Would have also made sense if Ewing was still with the Hornets as well.

    1. I’m willing to sign off on bringing Evan Turner to NY now that I’ve been exposed to his sense of humor.

    2. I think the Lakers are nuts. Unless you need cap space now, it rarely makes sense to clear long term space by attaching a good asset to it now. Russell may or may not turn out to be the player LA hoped, but he’s shown enough at this young age to think he’s worth looking at for at least another year or two. They could have always moved him later or hung on to Mozgov until they absolutely needed that space.

    Assuming they don’t trade again, Lakers are taking dj Wilson with one of those late first rounders (LA-based, and fits their system perfectly). Book it.

    @331 I read that the Lakers were very impressed with Jonah Bolden too.

    In other news, Charlotte just got Dwight Howard for . . . nothing, really. Belinelli, Plumlee and a 2nd round pick.

    Ntilikina goes for the goose egg in yesterday’s championship game, flies to New York today, will attend the draft on Thursday and then red eyes back for the final championship game on Friday. Did any of you do this stuff at age 18?

    that russell trade annoys me… i’m pretty sure we could have offered something pretty good if we never signed noah….

    The Hornets are kind of funny because they’re, like, doubling down on playing an old school style.

    Maybe he likes clubbing and doesn’t want to be domesticated like JR was

    Silky,

    The link makes very interesting reading, Thanks for it. Who is Steve Shea, whose rankings seem so different than everone elses?

    Someone posted Shea’s rankings here a bit ago. Basic idea as I understand it is that it assumes shooting inconsistency is a product of youth, so only uses their best performances. So it thinks Monk will be Curry level essentially. The claim is it fits previous outcomes well but it deliberately cherry picks data.

    The Hornets are kind of funny because they’re, like, doubling down on playing an old school style.

    At that price you can hardly fault them. Howard is a productive player, has a reasonable contract, and they even moved up in the draft (and 31 is a better pick than 30, for example). You only have to cope with Howard’s antics, but hey, he might buy into their system.

    Yes, and also Howard has worked Clifford before and apparently they get along

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