Knicks Morning News (2016.11.30)

  • [ESPN] Wednesday’s Knicks News: Porzingis, Noah plan to fight harder around the basket
    (Wednesday, November 30, 2016 5:55:12 AM)

    Wednesday’s Knicks News: Porzingis, Noah plan to fight harder around the basket

  • [ESPN] ‘Doesn’t really matter,’ Porzingis says, whether Knicks are his team or Melo’s
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 9:10:50 PM)

    ‘Doesn’t really matter,’ Porzingis says, whether Knicks are his team or Melo’s

  • [ESPN] Porzingis and Towns, just two friends redefining NBA big men
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 11:10:06 AM)

    Porzingis and Towns, just two friends redefining NBA big men

  • [ESPN] NBA Rumor Central: Will Knicks offer Derrick Rose an extension?
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 12:40:53 PM)

    NBA Rumor Central: Will Knicks offer Derrick Rose an extension?

  • [ESPN] Tuesday’s Knicks News: Anthony struggles in loss to Thunder
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 6:05:36 AM)

    Tuesday’s Knicks News: Anthony struggles in loss to Thunder

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis, Joakim Noah plan to fight harder under boards
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 7:53:00 PM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — Kristaps Porzingis already knew what to anticipate when Jeff Hornacek sat the Knicks down to show them film of them getting “manhandled” by the Thunder big men Monday. Porzingis already re-watched the game.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Russell Westbrook: The Triple-Double Machine
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 6:49:47 PM)

    Westbrook, the Thunder guard, is dominating opponents this season with double-digit averages in points, rebounds and assists.

  • [SNY Knicks] GEICO SportsNite: Knicks looking to improve on road
    (Wednesday, November 30, 2016 1:15:53 AM)

    GEICO SportsNite: Knicks looking to improve on road

  • [SNY Knicks] Joakim Noah leaves doubt he’s ready for prime time
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 5:30:56 PM)

    Joakim Noah’s recent struggles leaves some doubt that he can live up to his big contract in the bright lights of New York City.

  • [SNY Knicks] Courtney Lee has sprained shooting hand
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 3:35:14 PM)

    Courtney Lee suffered a sprained shooting hand in New York’s victory over the Hawks on Nov. 20.

  • [SNY Knicks] Thunder expose biggest weakness in Porzingis, Knicks
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 12:45:41 PM)

    The Thunder’s win over the Knicks Monday night exposed New York’s rebounding as a big weakness.

  • [NYDN] Porzingis ignores calls for him to take over Knicks from Melo
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 7:52:32 PM)

    The Garden crowd has established its position with groans and sighs when Melo gets the ball at the elbow and begins his jab step.

  • [NYPost] Reunion with Noah, Rose not coming at great time for Tom Thibodeau
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 9:13:50 PM)

    MINNEAPOLIS — Tom Thibodeau isn’t the first one to be miserable in Minnesota with December approaching. Thibodeau’s reign as president/coach is off to an arctic start — the Timberwolves bottoming out at Target Center on Monday night in a 112-103 loss to Utah before just 9,000 fans. Many left early and didn’t see the Jazz…

  • [NYPost] How Kristaps Porzingis and Karl-Anthony Towns became friends
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 7:33:18 PM)

    MINNEAPOLIS — There’s no Sophomore of the Year Award, but if there were, the Knicks’ Kristaps Porzingis and the Timberwolves’ Karl-Anthony Towns would be running about dead even. The two towering players with dazzling moves, who forever will be linked as the best players coming out of the 2015 draft, are forging a lasting friendship….

  • [NYPost] What does it mean that Knicks lose when Derrick Rose scores a lot?
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 3:59:50 PM)

    When Derrick Rose scores 16 or more points, the Knicks are 2-8. When he scores 15 or fewer, they are 6-1. Go figure. Or figure that Rose needs to be more of a facilitator. “I don’t necessarily think that’s true,” coach Jeff Hornacek said Tuesday. “If he’s getting good looks, other guys got to stay…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis couldn’t bear to watch Knicks’ beatdown video
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 3:46:27 PM)

    On Tuesday, the Knicks watched film of their physical beatdown by the Thunder the night before, when Oklahoma City held a 53-40 rebound edge. “We got to get effort and rebounding. That’s where they got us,” said Courtney Lee. “Maybe we’d make them miss the first option, [Russell] Westbrook would miss a shot or a…

  • [NYPost] Is this a blip, or is Joakim Noah a $72M Knicks disaster?
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 2:32:31 PM)

    To many, the Knicks would have been better served writing a check for $72 million, taking it out in the backyard and setting it on fire, rather than signing Joakim Noah. Noah was supposed to galvanize the defense and bring it together. That simply hasn’t happened yet. The Knicks are 24th in scoring defense (106.6…

  • [NYPost] How Jeff Hornacek is protecting Carmelo’s one-man offense
    (Tuesday, November 29, 2016 9:08:12 AM)

    You hear the murmurs and boos now – and it’s not just on social media. In the last three Garden games, whenever Carmelo Anthony receives a pass, holds onto the ball an extra second and makes a move that ends up with a missed or blocked shot, jeers filter through the Garden. “Iso Melo” is…

  • 89 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2016.11.30)”

    A home and home against Minnesota is just so weird, especially since it’s spread out over three days. What’s the point?

    This could be a perfect game to sooth their road woes.

    Going to watch the game tonight at the target center for 20 dollars. It’s amazing how cheap basketball tickets are when they aren’t at MSG

    This could be a perfect game to sooth their road woes.

    The T-Wolves should be favored to beat us at home. They’re probably not quite as bad as their record suggests and we’re probably not quite as good.

    Let’s hope Joakim Noah plays 30 minutes and triple doubles in front of Thibs while we blow out Minnesota, convincing him that he wants to trade for Noah

    Who’s gonna perform better, KP or KAT?

    I say KAT scores fewer points but beats KP in all the other counting stats while being at a similar scoring efficiency to KP.

    I say if the Knicks can contain Wiggins, this should be a pretty comfortable win…

    his 3 ball is much improved, even though he has cooled down a bit lately… however, the Knicks D loves to give opportunities for guys like him to get hot.

    KAT is at a point where he’ll get his no matter what, he’s that good, but stopping Wiggins is not that hard.

    let’s hope Melo doesn’t take this as a personal message to try and prove something to the “kid”

    By the way, Melo is averaging his 5th worst season by WS/48 and his 3rd worst season by BPM, and a VORP of *.3* grading out as a break even, slightly above replacement level player on a mega max contract.

    And he’s not getting any younger.

    and I would surely trade anyone on this roster except KP for Noel. I’d ask for a good pick if the trade included Melo, just cause Noel’s stock is probably at the lowest point it can be with the injury and how much he seems over Philly.

    By the way, Melo is averaging his 5th worst season by WS/48 and his 3rd worst season by BPM, and a VORP of *.3* grading out as a break even, slightly above replacement level player on a mega max contract.

    And he’s not getting any younger.

    its been 17 games…3 games ago you could have said Melo was having a career year lol

    I have this game down as a loss because I have us splitting with MIN. I think the teams are rather equally matched. On the other hand, the intangible about this game is that Hornacek tore into them after the Monday game. That might be enough to inspire the team tonight. But in true Knicksy form, they’ll just come back to the garden and lay an egg there, if we win tonight.

    And about Noel, this guy is so fragile. Why would we want another walking wounded? That would be sooooo Knicksy.

    and I would surely trade anyone on this roster except KP for Noel. I’d ask for a good pick if the trade included Melo, just cause Noel’s stock is probably at the lowest point it can be with the injury and how much he seems over Philly.

    I’m sure Melo would readily agree to a trade to the Sixers

    Small sample size yadda yadda yadda, but Lonzo Ball has a 71% TS and is stuffing the box score across the board.

    But hey, when you’ve got a chance to be the 8th seed you gotta go for it.

    @21 I dunno, he might want to make sure we can’t work something out with Milwaukee or Minnesota first.

    Somebody had a great quote. Something like Lonzo Ball is Derrick Rose athletically and Jason Kidd mentally. He reminds me of Russell Westbrook if Russell Westbrook wasn’t a selfish chucker who only passes when there is an opportunity for an assist.

    @21 I’m just saying I would trade him… obviously he wouldn’t accept, and we don’t even know if the Knicks will be looking for a trade in the first place.

    Noel was relatively healthy the last two years and is a complete monster defensively… I would take a chance on him.

    Interesting article from Bleacher Report on D.Rose

    He’s generating 0.95 points per possesion on pick & rolls. Better than 78% of the league.

    Another Interesting stat is Porzingis gets more passes and shots from Rose than anyone else. And shoots a significantly higher 3p% off passes from Rose compared to Jennings. 47.8 3Fg% vs 27.3 3FG%.

    Despite that many would leave you to believe Jennings is the only one who looks for KP.

    Could only hope the chemistry will continue to build between KP and Rose as the season grows.

    minnesota has a better expected w-l and they are a better team than us… aside from kat you also have dieng who’s very underrated… i think we drop both games… altho a split is always possible…

    win or lose tonite we seem like a desperate team; KP needs youth around him to develop, not a ‘win-now’ team barely making the 8th seed. im ready to blow it up!

    Who’s gonna perform better, KP or KAT?

    I think KAT is going to dominate KP in both games.

    I saw them play live last year and it was obvious KAT took their match up personally and KP was playing more team oriented and seemingly somewhat intimidated by KAT’s aggressiveness. Eventually they took KP off KAT. This may be the one bad match up KP has in the league. KAT can do just about everything KP can do on offense (in some cases better), but he also has the speed to stay with KP on the perimeter and length to bother all of KP’s shots.

    If KP gets the best of KAT, assuming they are guarding each other, that would go a long way to proving how much better KP is this year.

    who starts then, Holiday? that might be an ok idea, Holiday probably would do a decent job on Wiggins.

    @everyone over-analyzing this just-put-together team after 17 games, and willing to “blow it up”:

    You guys sound like superbly speaking horrible stock analysts that would sell low, buy high, and complain all the way through.

    @ 40 – I know. People on this site claim to be rational and stats driven but are ready to blow up every team we put together after the first 15 games even though sample size. I swear most people here think its as easy as put these players with these stats together and voila championship, why are GMs so dumb and don’t do that? Ignoring that players have to gel together, learn systems, learn each other’s tendencies, strengths and weaknesses, etc. There’s a reason why most of the playoff teams every year return at least 60 percent of their roster.

    People on this site claim to be rational and stats driven but are ready to blow up every team we put together after the first 15 games even though sample size.

    I don’t think this is true but when in the last 15 years or so would it have been the wrong impulse?

    There’s a reason why most of the playoff teams every year return at least 60 percent of their roster.

    It’s probably because they’re already a good team so they have no need to turnover the roster.

    Derrick Rose’s WS/48 and TS% through 17 games: .048 and .504. Both of these numbers are his best since the knee surgeries and his WS/48 is hilariously more than 5 times better than what he posted last year. He’s doing a better job recently of cutting the turnovers down and he rebounds well. If he can keep the turnovers down while raising his efficiency we might have a player.

    hinkie is one stroke of bad luck away from becoming a david stockman level crank

    Hinkie is a legend

    Stockman is one financial asset bubble bursting away from being a legend. 😉

    @19

    I have this game down as a loss because I have us splitting with MIN. I think the teams are rather equally matched. On the other hand, the intangible about this game is that Hornacek tore into them after the Monday game. That might be enough to inspire the team tonight. But in true Knicksy form, they’ll just come back to the garden and lay an egg there, if we win tonight.

    And about Noel, this guy is so fragile. Why would we want another walking wounded? That would be sooooo Knicksy.

    ugh, it must be a new york thing – cuz that’s exactly what i was thinking also…

    Noah is questionable for tonight’s game and for the season. Hammy, flu, now ankle. He is really a joke right now.

    I love that Staps is taking the pounding our bigs got on Monday personally. Get 10+ boards tonight young man!

    I’d be lying if I didn’t say I had a lot of sympathy for Hinkie. He does sound like a kook in that article. Someone that smart should know how not to come of like such an a-hole.

    But if I were rebuilding an NBA organization I don’t know how much I would have done differently. Draft Kawhi maybe.

    Eh, everyone saying, “It’s only 17 games!” will be the same people saying, “It’s only 82 games! Next year they’ll have gelled,” and then explain Porzingis’s continued improvement by pointing to all of the veterans putting up shit numbers. It’s never made sense and it never will.

    The 2011 heat were 9-8 after 17 games…..it is less than a quarter of a year. We are still in the first full month. It is by any definition “early” but hey. Fuck it the Knicks suck

    Eh, everyone saying, “It’s only 17 games!” will be the same people saying, “It’s only 82 games! Next year they’ll have gelled,” and then explain Porzingis’s continued improvement by pointing to all of the veterans putting up shit numbers. It’s never made sense and it never will.

    In 2025, er will be saying its only KP’s 10th year in the league! Why are you guys complaining that he hasn’t won a playoff series? Aren’t you real Knicks fans? We just signed a 39 year old starting Kyle Lowry as our starting PG and 36 year old Draymond Green as our PF!

    We just signed a 39 year old starting Kyle Lowry as our starting PG and 36 year old Draymond Green as our PF!

    Stop predicting the future! #nothelping

    But if I were rebuilding an NBA organization I don’t know how much I would have done differently.

    I agree.

    He stockpiled assets and picks, made value oriented trades, and kept moving forward with a very long term plan. IMO, that’s 100% exactly the correct way to way to build a team. It doesn’t have to be done exclusively through the draft, but that’s the best way to find value. Once a player is established in the NBA, it’s very difficult to get good value in a trade or in free agency unless there is a buffoon or two somewhere in management at another team and you are the one lucky enough to get a deal done with him or the player is giving you a discount because it wants to play on a contender or in a specific city. Not every draft selection is going to work out well, but that’s where the value is.

    Just look at the Knicks now.

    Who are our good “value” contracts?

    I’d argue Porzingis, Jennings, Hernangomez, Kuzminskas and maybe Holiday. But even with Holiday we gave up decent value in Lopez.

    We drafted 3 out of 5 and only got a discount on Jennings because he was coming off injury and was desperate to play in NY. We didn’t get any other bargains in free agency or via trades.

    Hinkie’s problem was the one-dimensionality of his rebuild. He should have invested in bringing some veteran guidance on a young team full of inexperienced players to show them the NBA ropes. Losing in this league can be demoralizing as Hell for a bunch of kids used to winning their entire basketball careers. Veterans help to put it all into context. I am grateful that KP has Melo to show him the ropes.

    Off topic a bit, but I read that Isiah Austin has been cleared to play. For those that remember he was an honourary draft pick in 2014 after he had to quit the sport before the draft with marfan syndrome. Nice good news sports story.

    On the Knicks, we really gotta get tougher. Noah has been disappointing in that regard, and I don’t think KP is physically that player yet (i.e. still needs to get stronger to really bully people rather than having to reach over the back on the boards). Really wouldn’t mind seeing us use N’dour or Plumlee when he is with the team go in for a 5 minute spurt here and there and just go for it. Rough up some of these opposing bigs a bit.

    Is Pozringis and towns is the second coming of wilt and bill?

    Third coming of the Twin Towers. They will be playing together in NYC.

    I think that Hinkie’s view was basically this: “Nobody matters except superstars,” and he didn’t view any of the guys he drafted as potential superstars until Embiid, and then Embiid missed two seasons in a row. He did go out and get Luc Richard Mbah a Moute in Embiid’s first season. Mbah a Moute helped discover Embiid in Cameroon and the two are very close.

    In any case, I would have expected that had Hinkie remained GM, he would have brought in more vets this year to try his best to protect his investment in Embiid.

    Bringing in a few veterans as part of the process of rebuilding around draft picks and young players is fine as long as you are bringing them in on short enough contracts to coincide with when you expect the young players to break out and start blossoming. If you can get a bargain or two, that’s even better because you may be able to trade them for a better asset later. But it would be a mistake to overpay for a veteran presence or give an older player a contract longer than his useful life on that team. It would also be a mistake to bring in someone who is not part of the long term plan but might add quite a few wins and screw up your upcoming draft picks. You have to have the core first. Hinkie was executing the rebuild to perfection. You can argue about a few of the picks, but no one is going to hit all homeruns in the draft.

    The picks were terrible. The fact that they didn’t pick Porzingis or anyone with higher upside than Okafor was fireable offense

    He should have invested in bringing some veteran guidance on a young team full of inexperienced players to show them the NBA ropes.

    This is a bullshit nonsense ready-made hot take that has no bearing in reality. There was an interview with Elton Brand in which he talked about how structured and player-development-focused their system is. About how people on the outside probably thought that they had no system in place, but that wasn’t the case. But it’s pretty easy to say what you said, even though it’s wrong.

    The picks were terrible. The fact that they didn’t pick Porzingis or anyone with higher upside than Okafor was fireable offense

    When that pick was made, very few people were totally convinced KP was going to be a better player and most thought Okafor was a mortal lock to very good and possibly better than that. I was more negative on Okafor than anyone here. I thought he might turn out to be another Eddy Curry (an efficient scorer that was below average at a lot of other things). I wasn’t taken very seriously when I said it. But when we picked KP, even I had very little confidence that we got the better player. I was hoping we got Russell. It was tough to know what KP was going to be. I believe it was reported that the Knicks had Okafor rated higher. It’s always easier after the fact.

    It was good Process bad results. But the narrative hasn’t gone his way. And he did a shit job of marketing it.

    It was also reported that Clarence Gaines had Zingis as #1 overall. So who knows what they would have done

    i think hinkie fell into the trap that boston is facing now…. there’s a limit to how useful draft picks are… and the cap space that he built bought them a couple of 1st rd picks but essentially wasted after everyone got more cap space a couple years ago…

    his draft picks were pretty good and they had some bad luck on positioning…. you could really only argue with saric and okafor… okafor was defensible and i think kp would’ve gone to the sixers if the knicks flipflopped positions… it’s a different ballgame at that point when you now have kp, embiid and simmons…

    but you can’t keep losing forever….. that was hinkie’s downfall….

    There was an interview with Elton Brand in which he talked about how structured and player-development-focused their system is.

    What does this even mean?

    it’s a different ballgame at that point when you now kp, embiid and simmons…

    Perfect backcourt. A powerful center to anchor down low in Embiid, a lethal shooting stretch forward in KP, and a ball distributing/slashing point forward in Simmons.

    It was good Process bad results. But the narrative hasn’t gone his way. And he did a shit job of marketing it.

    Had he still been there, he would have selected Ben Simmons. When it’s over, Embiid, Simmons, + whatever they do with Noel and Okafor and whatever upside they get elsewhere is going to be giving the Knicks and the rest of the NBA fits for at least a decade. They just aren’t there yet.

    I don’t think Philly’s process was any good because they did not invest enough resources in draft scouting. They drafted a bunch of big guys with foot/knee problems and weren’t able to grab low risk guys like Seth Curry or the guy in New Orleans whose name escapes me. All those top 3 picks and no wins. They’re not heading in the right direction as of today.

    Of course they could take Markelle Fultz in this draft and have a group of Fultz, Simmons, Okafor, and Embiid. That would really suck.

    Himkie did fine, but dude sounds so much like a Ted Talk fortune cookie machine he almost fails the Turing Test. That might have intruded, eventually, even if it hadn’t yet and he got booted unfairly.

    They’re not heading in the right direction as of today.

    I would take Embiid, Simmons, Noel and Okafor over KP, Hernangomez, Kuzminskas, and soon to be “has beens” like Rose, Melo and Noah any day of the week. But that is the difference between guys like me and most other people. I think in terms of long term value and not in terms of the current snapshot in time.

    The 76ers have 2 potentially great players and a few good prospects to develop or trade. The Knicks have KP. As exciting as that is, the 76ers are positioned better.

    noel and embiid were very good gambles.. you look back at those drafts and there wasn’t anything special after them besides giannis and he came out of no where…. these guys without the injuries would’ve been consensus #1s….

    noel has fallen short so far.. but you’re starting to see why embiid was worth the wait… 28/12/3.8 per 36…

    Bro just because I think Philly didn’t do a good job doesn’t mean I think the Knicks are doing a good job.

    The Knicks need to trade Melo or Joakim Noah to LAL at the deadline for their 1st round pick and tank until Lonzo Ball is in a Knicks uniform.

    but dude sounds so much like a Ted Talk fortune cookie machine he almost fails the Turing Test

    that’s perfectly said….

    Comments are closed.