Knicks Morning News (2016.11.17)

  • [NYDN] The Knicks are slowly but surely evolving into Porzingis’ team
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 8:47:47 PM)

    There no stopping Kristaps Porzingis. The fans, chanting “M-V-P” in the fourth quarter, can sense it as well.

  • [NYDN] Stan Van Gundy says Pistons never stay at Trump hotels
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 8:47:25 PM)

    Pistons president and coach Stan Van Gundy was outspoken last week after Donald Trump was elected president

  • [NYDN] Kristaps Porzingis has career night in Knicks’ win over Pistons
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 8:11:21 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis’ emergence as a breakout star continued moving forward on Wednesday night.

  • [NYDN] Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy admits to using word ‘posse’
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 2:54:57 PM)

    Stan Van Gundy admittedly has used the word “posse,” too, and agrees that “it’s just not right.”

  • [NYDN] LeBron James should look in mirror after Phil’s ‘posse’ comment
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 12:40:59 PM)

    LeBron James was quick to cast Phil Jackson as a racist for using a word that I and others feel is closer to “entourage” than “gang.”

  • [NYDN] Knicks president Phil Jackson shares ‘posse’ tweet… kind of
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 12:34:12 PM)

    Phil Jackson has remained silent after offending LeBron James — and it seems like Carmelo Anthony — with his use of the word “posse.”

  • [NYDN] Phil Jackson has used ‘posse’ while discussing LeBron before
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 8:30:27 AM)

    If Phil Jackson’s use of the word “posse” offended LeBron James, then the Cavs star shouldn’t pick up one of the Zen Master’s books.

  • [NYPost] One Knicks bench player ‘doing everything right’
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 9:14:54 PM)

    Justin Holiday is emerging as this year’s Lance Thomas. With Thomas still sidelined, bothered by a bone bruise in his left ankle and plantar fasciitis in both feet, Holiday has become a key bench piece. No, he didn’t start the second half Wednesday as he did Monday versus the Mavericks, but he logged 24 minutes…

  • [NYPost] This is the Joakim Noah Phil Jackson envisioned
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 8:35:09 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony could see it in the dressing room before the game ever started, could sense he was going to see something a little different from Joakim Noah. That’s always been what his teammates have said about Noah, going all the way back to Gainesville, Fla. You don’t just see intensity from him. You feel…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis’ career-best night saves the Knicks
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 5:08:43 PM)

    Just two weeks ago, Kristaps Porzingis got benched against the Pistons for the final nine minutes of a tight game because of his defensive shortcomings. Wednesday in the rematch, Porzingis again showed the silliness of the maneuver. The Knicks’ future — and Phil Jackson’s smartest move — smashed his career-high, taking over the game in…

  • [NYPost] Stan Van Gundy comes clean amid ‘posse’ spat: I’m guilty
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 2:48:02 PM)

    Phil Jackson didn’t apologize for using the word “posse’’ in describing LeBron James’ management team, but forever outspoken Pistons president and coach Stan Van Gundy did it for him. Before facing the Knicks on Wednesday, Van Gundy owned up to using the phrase “posse’’ in a similar vein in regards to black associates, saying the…

  • [NY Newsday] Justin Holiday surprises Knicks with his all-around play
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 11:41:36 PM)

    Justin Holiday is proving to be more than just a player who was put in the Derrick Rose trade to make the salaries match up.

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis has career night with 35 points in Knicks’ win
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 11:34:54 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis had the Garden buzzing, the Knicks bouncing all over the floor and Joakim Noah sprinting off the bench and to halfcourt to give his teammate a running chest bump after a three-pointer.

  • [NY Newsday] Stan Van Gundy, Magic Johnson speak on Jackson’s use of ‘posse’
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 11:01:00 PM)

    The fallout from Phil Jackson’s criticism of LeBron James continued into Wednesday, as a basketball icon took to defending Jackson’s intentions, while Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy, called the use of the word “posse” to classify a black athlete’s business associates “not right.”

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis scores career-high 35 points as Knicks edge Pistons, 105-102
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 10:10:37 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis scored a career-high 35 points and the Knicks held on to beat the Pistons, 105-102, Wednesday night at Madison Square Garden

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks recall Marshall Plumlee from D-League
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 10:34:42 PM)

    The Knicks have recalled Marshall Plumlee from their D-League affiliate, the Westchester Knicks, the team announced Wednesday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks look to stay on track against Pistons
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 7:05:26 PM)

    The Detroit Pistons answered questions about whether they could find a capable replacement for Andre Drummond in their frontcourt.

  • [SNY Knicks] Daily News Live: Will ‘posse’ comments put a strain on relationship between Jackson, Melo?
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 6:39:40 PM)

  • [SNY Knicks] TKB Podcast: Phil’s Big Mouth, Knicks Small Ball
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 3:36:20 PM)

    TKB Podcast: Phil’s Big Mouth, Knicks Small Ball

  • [SNY Knicks] Q&A with the Jake Brown Show
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 2:21:19 PM)

    Transcript from Tommy Dee’s appearance on the CBS podcast The Jake Brown Show talking Knicks

  • [SNY Knicks] Will Porzingis eventually overshadow Noah at center?
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 8:38:03 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis took over at the 5 in place of Joakim Noah in the Knicks’ win over the Mavericks on Monday. What does that mean for both players going forward?

  • [ESPN] Thursday’s Knicks News: Porzingis scores career-high 35 in win over Pistons
    (Thursday, November 17, 2016 6:21:29 AM)

    Thursday’s Knicks News: Porzingis scores career-high 35 in win over Pistons

  • [ESPN] Derrick Rose on Kristaps Porzingis’ 35-point night: ‘That’s scary’
    (Thursday, November 17, 2016 2:44:58 AM)

    Derrick Rose on Kristaps Porzingis’ 35-point night: ‘That’s scary’

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: The Ball Is Moving, and the Lakers Are Rolling
    (Thursday, November 17, 2016 2:00:07 AM)

    With its new coach, Luke Walton, emphasizing teamwork and passing, the team is off to a 7-5 start in its first season without the retired Kobe Bryant.

  • [NYTimes] Stan Van Gundy Reflects Uncomfortably on His Own Words
    (Thursday, November 17, 2016 3:39:40 AM)

    Van Gundy, who speaks his mind on social issues, said he, like Knicks President Phil Jackson, had used the word “posse” in a way that would offend black players.

  • [NYTimes] Knicks 105, Pistons 102: Knicks Edge Pistons as Kristaps Porzingis Scores 35 Points
    (Thursday, November 17, 2016 4:50:43 AM)

    Porzingis displayed an array of skills and shots as the Knicks squeezed out a victory, with Carmelo Anthony adding 22 points and Joakim Noah 15 rebounds.

  • [NYTimes] Celtics 115, Knicks 87: Carmelo Anthony Is Tossed, and So Are the Knicks
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 12:20:06 PM)

    Anthony was ejected from the game after arguing a call in the second quarter, and the Knicks’ hopes of winning the game soon followed.

  • 139 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2016.11.17)”

    Great win last night. My thoughts –

    1) KP obviously. It’s just nuts to think all the ways he scored last night.
    – Steal + full court dribble + (ugly) layup over contest.
    – 3’s
    – cuts to the rim
    – putback dunk
    – baby hook
    – the most beautiful drive/spin/fadeaway/nothing but net outside of Dallas

    AND – he really competed on the defensive end, as opposed to what is sort of expected from guys expending energy on the offensive end – that is to say, just mail it in on the defensive end. And played 40 minutes at high effort. Just amazing.

    We can say whatever we want about Phil Jackson and how he’s probably got some sort of frontal lobe filter issue, how awful he is at negotiating contracts and trades, and his precious Triangle obsession, but we can never take away that Porzingis pick. And it was NOT an obvious pick no matter what Theo and other trolls say. 8 out of 10 draft pundits would’ve gone some combination of Justise Winslow (have you seen how awful his stats are this year?!?!), Cauley-Stein (can’t get minutes on Sacramento?!), or Mudiay (no need to pile on).

    2) Melo – he’s sort of receded a little into the background, but he’s quietly having a very good season. 57.1% TS on a 29 usage, only 9.6% TO-R. And to my eyes at least, he’s picked up the defensive effort over the last few games. Many here have said that Melo needs to be the 2nd best player on a team for that team to have any chance at being really good. Here we are.

    We may also be seeing Hornacek’s influence on his shot distribution, as ruru noted in the last thread. It’s a small sample still, and it’s not that big a difference, but as of now he has a career-low percentage of his shots in the “long-2” 16<3 range (22.2% of his shots). At the same time, he has a career-high percentage of his shots from 3 point range. The last time his shot distribution looked like this was 2012-13, otherwise known as the best season of his career.

    3) Justin Holiday is just a good rotation player. He’s long enough and quick enough to guard 1-3, which is such a skill of need on this team (and any team). His 3 point shot looks pure, and he’s shooting 40+% over his last 80+ shots. A quick search of cbafaq didn’t give me any clear answer — can we extend him before he hits free agency even though we’re at the cap? And yes, agree that Jrue Holiday would be a good fit for this team especially given our cap room will almost certainly not be enough to attract CP3.

    4) KOQ – he has brainless moments but last night is the best I’ve ever seen him play. Between him and WillyBilly, that’s a good 3rd big battle. They seem to be bringing out the best in each other.

    5) Good to see Noah respond so well last night. I think it’s inevitable that he turns into a 20-25 minute role player, but FT shooting aside, he was really good last night.

    Pet peeve – if you know your shot is awful, WHY CAN’T YOU REMODEL YOUR SHOT?!!?? Tiger Woods won 4 majors in a row and still retooled his shot. Even Tristan Thompson decided to stop shooting left handed. Noah shoots the ball with one hand on either side of the ball and shoots a sidewinding screwball with a different rotation every time. Shooting coaches can’t fix that?!? Everyone says that Noah is a “winner”. You can’t possibly tell me that a “winner” can’t spend the time and energy to do that. He’s not 60 years old and calcified in his ways. He’s 31 for pete’s sake.

    5) Derrick Rose – for most of the game was a square peg in a round hole. He hit some big shots in the closing minutes, so it’s hard to be too down on him. His jumper looks broken right now – zero arc. But like I said after the last game, I appreciate that he’s really competing on the defensive end. He’s been better on that end than advertised. FWIW – he led the team in adjusted assists last night (assists + “hockey” assists + free throw assists).

    I will just leave this here:

    But it’s Porzingis who’s knocking them down, and doing so at a stellar clip that likely not even the most hopeful Knicks fan would’ve projected heading into the season. Through 11 games, the Latvian is averaging 20.7 points in 32.1 minutes per game while shooting 49.7 percent from the field, 40 percent from 3-point range (on 5.5 attempts per game) and 79.2 percent from the free-throw line. The list of 21-year-olds who have produced like that over the course of a full NBA season? It doesn’t exist.

    @2 about your Pet peeve. I agree. He must retool that useless shot. The fact that he’s been in the league so long and hasn’t is an indication of someone that is stubborn as a mule.

    by the way Kevin Durant is good. Usage of 28.8. TS of 66.4. Turnover rate of 9.

    Oh, and Steph has a TS of 68.4 and a usage of 29.4.

    Their defense sort of sucks but it probably won’t matter.

    Another random thought –

    I was glad to see that Lance has been nursing multiple foot/ankle injuries, and that maybe that’s why he’s been so awful. If he can get appropriate rest and rehab and come back and play like he did last season, that would be huge. The 3/4 wing/PF combo that can play tough D and hit 3’s is still a hole in the lineup. Kuz and NDour are ok but one is bad defensively and the other is bad offensively. Holiday and Lee can guard the smaller wings but are mismatched against the bigger 3/4 types.

    …but we can never take away that Porzingis pick.

    Agreed. Now fast forward to 2018 when KP is (knock on wood) ready to be the best player of a championship level team, and the Knicks still need:
    1. A top 20 second big next to KP.
    2. A top 20 PG.
    3. A top 20 SG.
    4. One of the above at allstar level.

    What are the chances for that happening with Noah and Melo and Lee in inevitable decline, and with our draft picks doomed to be mid first round? Probably 40/60 at best.

    Uh why would you skip to 2018? He’s good now and Melo is good now. It could be a fun year. This is probably sort of an intersectional year where they are at about the same level before Melo declines an KP gets better

    They said the same when Ewing was around. And KG and KD, and plenty of other excellent players.

    What’s funny about #8’s comment is that Knicks fans are so unused to having a transcendental young talent that we think only in narrow windows. In 2018 KP will be 23 years old. His “prime” won’t be until 2022-2023 or so. Noah and Melo will be distant memories by then. So we have a semi-interesting time now — no chance of championship but certainly entertaining. But assuming KP’s health, we have 15+ years of him.

    Think about it – in Dirk’s age 21 season, his fellow starters were Cedric Ceballos, Shawn Bradley, Michael Finley, and Erick Strickland. Steve Nash was on the team but wasn’t even a starter at that point in his career (he ultimately started ~50 games that year). In Kevin Garnett’s age 21 season, the starting centers next to him were Cherokee Parks and Stanley Roberts.

    KP is just a baby. His window is LONG and wide open. My daughter is still in diapers and hopefully by the time KP’s window closes, she’ll be in college.

    (Maybe most importantly – by the time KP is in his prime in 2022-23, Phil Jackson will also be a distant memory as President of the Knicks)

    er sure, with KP playing like this it’s already fun. He’s probably top 10, maybe top 5 in the league on the must watch list.

    Pet peeve – if you know your shot is awful, WHY CAN’T YOU REMODEL YOUR SHOT?!!?? Tiger Woods won 4 majors in a row and still retooled his shot. Even Tristan Thompson decided to stop shooting left handed. Noah shoots the ball with one hand on either side of the ball and shoots a sidewinding screwball with a different rotation every time. Shooting coaches can’t fix that?!? Everyone says that Noah is a “winner”. You can’t possibly tell me that a “winner” can’t spend the time and energy to do that. He’s not 60 years old and calcified in his ways. He’s 31 for pete’s sake.

    A friend of mine told me that Noah’s wrists are wrong somehow, and dont have the full range of movement (hence he did not even try tennis, which would have been natural given his father). And that is why he shoots so weird. Haven’t checked if true, though.

    We can start building the foundations for a future too soon though. Just because KP is young and healthy now doesn’t mean we should hold off thinking about building around him. Our top-heavy starting lineup has a lot of holes and several players either on the wrong of side of 30 (Melo, Noah), a guy with serious injury history (Rose) and another who will be 30+ years old by the time his contract expires. The question of how we plan to replace or supplement that aging talent to support our maturing young stud should cannot be asked too soon in advance? I am willing to bet Phil himself has also asked this question as its becoming more and more apparent that KP is a dude to build around.

    KNICK NEWS:

    > Hornacek says he’ll ride the unicorn like Secretariat!
    > Knick team one Jerian Grant away from being contenders!
    > Fans fret about KP’s posse of aging washed-up gunslingers!
    > Jackson calls John Wall an overpaid underachiever!

    His “prime” won’t be until 2022-2023 or so. Noah and Melo will be distant memories by then.

    I doubt that this will be Melo’s last contract with the Knick

    I’m confident the he will resign for 3 ou 4 years after that. Not a mega max contract for sure. But something bad as Dirk’s or Wade’s contract.

    He’s not leaving any time soon. Let’s get used to it.

    IMO, the weak spot is still at PG. It’s just not as weak as in the past, so people are comfortable. This team would be REALLY good if it had a PG that was both a high level play maker and that could score efficiently. After that it would come down to defense, but I still think the defense is going to fine in time. I have no issue with Jennings coming off the bench as a backup (though he takes some horrible shots), but Rose is not a starting PG anymore.

    Frank, good job today getting us rolling here. Excellent posts.

    I know that it’s not apparent, but the Knicks have been building for the future and Phil’s not getting credit for doing it with the minimum number of picks a GM can have and an owner that won’t give up the win-now philosophy. Let’s look at the team that’s signed, right now, for the 2018-2019 season:
    Melo (Player option for $27M – a no brainer as far as I can tell)
    Noah $18.5M
    Lee $12.3M
    Thomas $7.1M
    KP (Team option for $5.6M)
    O’Quinn (Player option for $4.2M)
    Kuzminskis $3.8M
    Hernangomez $1.5M
    Plumlee $1M
    Except for point guards, which I’m pretty sure we’ll be drafting, this could be the core of a legit rotation.

    I like how DRose and Jennings are putting the team above their own personal stats even though they’ll be free agents. And their defense has been above expectations. They are playing so hard on that end of the floor.
    I got to watch Chasson Randle yesterday and he looks very polished on offense with smooth moves, triangularity, smarts and excellent shooting from the 3 point range. He seemed to get lost on defense though and had trouble getting around picks. He’s slight of build too.

    “We may also be seeing Hornacek’s influence on his shot distribution, as ruru noted in the last thread. It’s a small sample still, and it’s not that big a difference, but as of now he has a career-low percentage of his shots in the “long-2? 16<3 range (22.2% of his shots)."
    KP's shot distribution has also changed. He has increased the number of shots from 0-3 feet and decreased the number from 3-10 feet. He has also decreased the number of long 2's and increased the number of 3's. By the way, I realize that +/- is not a great stat and that it's a tiny sample size but, so far this year, Noah has a net +/- rating of +18.2, which is by far the best on the team.

    I wouldn’t trade KP for all of Boston’s assets. Phil will go or stay at the end of this season, but that pick will be the gift that keeps on giving.

    KOQ has made me a believer again. I actually thought he’s been getting unfairly shit on for most of this season. To my eye he’s been consistently giving effort defensively, showing better awareness on both sides of the ball and holy hell has his decision making gotten quicker and better. Dropping weight has done wonders for his athleticism and ability to finish around the rim.

    Rose hasn’t been anything special, but for a 1 year rental he seems to be a slightly better version than 2012/13 Felton imo and for right now that’s fine. PG remains a big need moving forward.

    Holiday being good adds so much value to the team. He gives us such a better chance to not get totally lit up when we play small and his shooting has been a pleasant surprise. Hopefully he can keep it up.

    I am so glad that we didn’t tank and subject KP to the bad habits that go along with losing and poor teammates.

    We may also be seeing Hornacek’s influence on his shot distribution, as ruru noted in the last thread. It’s a small sample still, and it’s not that big a difference, but as of now he has a career-low percentage of his shots in the “long-2? 16<3 range (22.2% of his shots). At the same time, he has a career-high percentage of his shots from 3 point range. The last time his shot distribution looked like this was 2012-13, otherwise known as the best season of his career.

    We’re only 11 games in, but I think we should all be applauding Melo and cheering him on. His efficiency is up a tad, and his raw numbers are good. Just looking at his stats on the surface, 23/6/3 on 47/35/83 shooting percentages is encouraging. If he keeps it up, suddenly we will have the Melo we have been looking for- but with help. The 1-2 punch of KP and Melo looks very promising at this point. Hopefully Rose doesn’t mess it up

    KOQ should be first big off the bench. He’s having his best season I think

    Also, small sample, but he has the best BPM on the team at a robust 4.7. And the second highest WS/48 at .165. He good.

    I am so glad that we didn’t tank and subject KP to the bad habits that go along with losing and poor teammates.

    This. You can already see the demoralizing effect of losing has had upon big time draftees like Okafor, Cousins and Davis. But to be fair, KP has also experienced his fair share of losing. I am just glad he’s had help from veterans to take the pressure of his game and help acclimate him to the league.

    Reminder: it is only 11 games in. Too early to make any real judgments on what we have.

    That said, it’s impossible for me not to believe that we’re one great PG away from being a great team.

    I get that people think CP3 isn’t going to happen next year, but…it could. If Staps keeps this up, CP3 might even think it’s his best shot at a championship. We would have to trade O’Quinn or Lance, but getting the cap space would not be tough.

    I’d trade Lance for a second rounder and a pair of air yeezys at this point

    I think KOQ and Billy can be interchangeable based on the matchup

    Agreed. Also Hornacek has lit a fire under both their asses with how he’s shifted their minutes based on who has it going in a particular game. Having a little healthy competition for the back-up C minutes is a good thing.

    I get that people think CP3 isn’t going to happen next year, but…it could. If Staps keeps this up, CP3 might even think it’s his best shot at a championship.

    Paul is the MVP on the best team so far this season. I seriously doubt he looks at our squad and thinks they provide a deeper, better alternative to winning a title.

    It’s tough to complain about KP given the incredible jump in his offensive game. With that said, he has regressed somewhat in two aspects: rebounding (he had already regressed in the second-half of the last season) and defense. I think the defense will improve once the team gets its act together on that front, but the rebounding is a little concerning. I understand that he’s playing farther away from the basket, but he’s still rebounding below average for a 4. Really hope he can improve that.

    I think it also has to do with Noah sucking up all the rebounds in the starting lineup–dude is seriously good at that.

    Once he transitions to the 5 I’m not that worried but as it is he’s playing near the three point line on offense and defense which leaves little opportunity for rebounding beyond long caroms or dives to the rim

    Paul is the MVP on the best team so far this season. I seriously doubt he looks at our squad and thinks they provide a deeper, better alternative to winning a title.

    If GSW trounces them in the playoffs I don’t think he stays. Doesn’t mean he’s coming to the Knicks, but I think he’ll feel that their core has maxed out and can’t overcome the Warriors in such a scenario.

    Where else, outside of San Antonio, is Paul going to that would give him a better chance at beating GS even if the Clippers do get trounced in the playoffs? This isn’t like the Kevin Durant situation where you could feel there was a better viable alternative available for a superstar to join after maxing out a window with his prior team. I can’t imagine a scenario that is better suited to Paul’s than the one he currently occupies.

    #39

    I pray to a God I don’t believe exists that never happens. Imaginary God help us all if this is the case.

    Chris Paul on the Spurs would make my head spin. Though Idk their cap situation well enough to know if it’s possible (not resigning Pau + a trade or two? Maybe Danny Green?)

    If the Warriors are a complete juggernaut and Lebron is still Lebron then I would happily root for the Spurs in that situation.

    I thought KOQ was fine last year and he looks even better this year. I see a lot of KOQ hate on Twitter and forums. I don’t get it at all. He occasionally makes such a boneheaded play is really sticks out, but for some reason with him that’s all anyone notices while with other players they are more forgiving of an occasional dumb shot or bad TO. He’s one of the better value contracts on the team.

    The Knicks are 5-6.

    Bro, do you have any idea how scary we’ll be if Porzingis averages 35 points per game?

    If the Warriors are a complete juggernaut and Lebron is still Lebron then I would happily root for the Spurs in that situation.

    I’m at the point where I dislike so many teams, individual players, and coaches it’s almost impossible for me to find a team to root for besides the Knicks, let alone one that actually has a chance to contend.

    There were times when Kyle would hold the ball for like 16 seconds while waiting for something to happen.

    His decisions seem quicker this year and he’s protecting the rim better these past few games.

    If he continues to play like this then there will be no complaints.

    We can say whatever we want about Phil Jackson and how he’s probably got some sort of frontal lobe filter issue, how awful he is at negotiating contracts and trades, and his precious Triangle obsession, but we can never take away that Porzingis pick. And it was NOT an obvious pick no matter what Theo and other trolls say.

    Curb your enthusiasm, Frank.

    Isiah Thomas drafted Tracey McGrady at 9, Trevor Ariza at 43, Camby at 2, David Lee at 30.

    Still, like Phil Jackson, an awfully incompetent GM.

    Porzingis’ pick fell into Jackson’s lap – he was trying to make the playoffs that year, but fucked up so bad he ended up with a high pick. Yes, he gets early credit for selecting what appears to be a future star, but the credit is partial because it was never his intention to rebuild around a draft pick.

    Now, you can go back to your sorry-ass-loser fantasyland where a win against the terrible Pistons makes the Knicks contenders.

    O’Quinn is filling his role perfectly – come in with a lot of energy and defensive intensity and don’t do anything stupid on offense. Right now, he’s our most valuable bench player.

    Now, you can go back to your sorry-ass-loser fantasyland where a win against the terrible Pistons makes the Knicks contenders.

    Jesus.

    Now, you can go back to your sorry-ass-loser fantasyland where a win against the terrible Pistons makes the Knicks contenders.

    Didn’t know the Pistons were terrible, I guess all those analysts who picked them to be 5 0r 6 in the East are morons.

    The Knicks have a good chance to finish the season around 40-45 wins, like many have predicted. That said, it will be an encouraging development if most of those wins come from KPs improvement, Melo’s production as a #2 guy next to KP, and production from role players like Holiday and O-Quinn.

    IF that happens, we’ll actually be pretty reasonably well set up after the season. We’ll have 20 mil in cap space and our number one draft pick, with needs at starting PG, backup SG, and a 3/4 tweener player to backup Melo or play the 3 next to a Melo/KP front court.

    I mentioned this last thread but there are 3 PGs I would be looking at in next years FA class: Chris Paul, Jrue Holiday and George Hill. If we get one of those guys and fill one of the other needs with our draft pick, we should be looking at another 4-5 wins the following year (unless we somehow get CP), which would make us a high 40s-50 win team going into the last year of Melo’s contract with reasonable future flexibility and all of our draft picks.

    KP’s brilliance makes our overall situation look pretty good.

    Now, you can go back to your sorry-ass-loser fantasyland where a win against the terrible Pistons makes the Knicks contenders.

    I actually laughed out loud at this.
    Yes perhaps we’re getting a bit ahead of ourselves. But wow is it fun to root for Porzingis.
    To be fair, even without Reggie Jackson, the Pistons have the #5 defense in the league. The offense hasn’t been great, but they had just beaten the Thunder and the Nuggets in Denver. They’re not a bad team at all.

    Bro, do you have any idea how scary we’ll be if Porzingis averages 35 points per game?

    Obviously you’re being facetious, but a team with Melo and KP after the leap is capable of getting buckets on any given night. The defense improving by not fouling and grabbing more defensive boards is what I believe will be the determining factor in the Knicks’ playoff hopes this year.

    Fwiw the Knicks have played the 8th most difficult schedule to date and did beat a Memphis team that just beat the rampaging Clippers on the road. They’ve also gotten lit up by Houston, so whether or not this team can find consistency is another major unknown thus far.

    by the way if there’s any question about whether Melo is ok with sharing the spotlight with KP — one possession (I think in early 4th quarter?) last night stuck out to me. Due to some action which I can’t remember, Melo ended up isolated on Jon Leuer at the top of the key, and KP was in the high post on a smaller player. 100 times out of 100 you would expect Melo to tell everyone to clear out so he could feast on Leuer. But instead he dumped it into KP in the post (who missed).

    Melo seems genuinely happy for KP, and happy to defer (occasionally).

    Porzingis’ emergence has immensely helped the Knicks mitigate a huge weakness: scoring efficiency. He has a scorching .571 eFG% so far, easily the best on the team. The Knicks minus Porzingis have a .479 eFG%. As a team, the Knicks rank 18th in that very important stat. Not great, but holding their own. Without Porzingis’ production they’d rank near the bottom of the league.

    The Knicks’ defense still looks very bad though. They surrendered a 113.3 offensive rating to a Detroit team that is a weak offensive team, and that allowed the Pistons to hang around in a game that should have been an easy win.

    That said, it will be an encouraging development if most of those wins come from KPs improvement, Melo’s production as a #2 guy next to KP,

    I don’t understand for the life of me why we have to make it a 1/2 thing. Can they just play together? I have never understood this. People for years tried to drive a wedge between Westbrook and Durant for years with this foolishness.

    The Knicks’ defense still looks very bad though. They surrendered a 113.3 offensive rating to a Detroit team that is a weak offensive team, and that allowed the Pistons to hang around in a game that should have been an easy win.

    I legit thought the Knicks played pretty good defense yesterday, but that Detroit made some very difficult shots. I’d have to watch again though to really say.

    Either way the overarching point you’re making that the defense needs to improve is definitely on point.

    They surrendered a 113.3 offensive rating to a Detroit team that is a weak offensive team, and that allowed the Pistons to hang around in a game that should have been an easy win.

    I thought KP played a suitable defensive game, but I am no expert.

    As far as I can see: Noah was getting abused by Drummond early on. Lee has serious problems getting around screens. Melo and KP are consistently late on defensive switches. Rose gets burned regularly.

    Tonight’s opponent, the Wizards, are in total disarray and are playing way below their talent level. They’re the 23rd ranked offense. But in John Wall they have the type of player that has been giving the Knick defense fits. The Knicks do not really have a perimeter defender who can slow down a player like Wall.

    Melo seems genuinely happy for KP, and happy to defer (occasionally).

    I agree. They genuinely seem to like each other a lot and Melo seems to respect his game enough to defer when appropriate.

    Tonight’s opponent, the Wizards, are in total disarray and are playing way below their talent level. They’re the 23rd ranked offense. But in John Wall they have the type of player that has been giving the Knick defense fits. The Knicks do not really have a perimeter defender who can slow down a player like Wall.

    I’m more concerned with his penetration. This is a test for Rose. Wall can’t be stopped, but he must be slowed.

    Are there perimeter players that can stop or slow a guy like John Wall? Rose can’t shoot and he is able to get to the basket without much difficulty. Maybe the Knicks just have been collecting sieves for as long as I can remember, (duh), but it seems to me like these penetration stoppers (insert off color joke) are more elusive than a cursory reading of this board would lead you to believe.

    Let’s say KP becomes a top 5 player. How are we adding talent when he’s putting our floor at 30 wins? Haven’t you all had enough experience watching the Knicks try to add talent outside the draft to see where that leads? Is the plan to win 40 games or whatever the next two seasons and then have KP pull a David Robinson and sit out a year so we can draft him a second star?

    If that’s not the plan, and we continue down this road, then look around the league the last 15 years… KG in Minnesota, Anthony Davis, John Wall… Hell, the Cavs drafted one of the top three or four players ever to play in the NBA and still couldn’t win a title.

    Acting like Porzingis’s strong play so far this season means the Knicks have it made and can sign aging vets to keep the coming seasons somewhat more entertaining and title contention will come is at best naive and at worst the kind of selfish thinking that I find most frustrating about some fans.

    “Now, you can go back to your sorry-ass-loser fantasyland”
    You should consider joining us here. It’s a fun and happy place to be — kind of like Disneyworld. I’ll reserve my misery for real world problems.

    Ndour or Holiday on Wall might be an interesting look

    @68

    I agree. Complacency is what squanders opportunity. Everyone continues to hope that major FA savior is always around the corner but it doesn’t work that way. We need to be smart about planning for the future and considering how our assets fit together going forward.

    #70 “Ndour or Holiday on Wall might be an interesting look.”

    +1 to this. I’d love to see Ndour try to mimic (old school) Rodman as a lockdown defender and hustle player.

    Let’s say KP becomes a top 5 player. How are we adding talent when he’s putting our floor at 30 wins? Haven’t you all had enough experience watching the Knicks try to add talent outside the draft to see where that leads? Is the plan to win 40 games or whatever the next two seasons and then have KP pull a David Robinson and sit out a year so we can draft him a second star?

    I know this is crazy, but draft picks outside of the top of the lottery sometimes turn into good players like Kawhi Leonard, Rodney Hood, Rudy Gobert, Draymond Green, Chandler Parsons, Reggie Jackson, Jae Crowder, Avery Bradley, Serge Ibaka, Marc Gasol, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Jimmy Butler, etc. No path in NBA roster construction guarantees a damn thing, but landing a superstar is the hardest part and the Knicks may have perhaps done that.

    Yeah….its like when Lebron got to Cleveland everyone was like yes. Lets try to lose. Only Knicks fans carry on with this shit.

    Good/Great players in the annals of history have gotten to the playoffs and have progressed in a winning culture.

    The Knicks have had no choice but to look for talent outside the deaft since they traded all their picks.

    They have Willy who may turn into the starter and some other nice talent who may or not pan out in Baker and Randle.

    I mean if the Noah and Lee contracts are as bad as some are predicting then you might get your wish and we can tank hard those seasons.

    Acting like Porzingis’s strong play so far this season means the Knicks have it made and can sign aging vets to keep the coming seasons somewhat more entertaining and title contention will come is at best naive and at worst the kind of selfish thinking that I find most frustrating about some fans

    Why do they have to be “aging” vets? Why cant they be good role players?

    I just checked, and Justin Holiday’s contract is up after this year, too. I just don’t get the Rose trade. Let’s give up valuable pieces for expiring contracts and then go overpay, as usual, in the FA market? What?

    I am not saying we should go out and sign aging vets, unless you consider a 26 year old Jrue Holiday aging. It would be great to blow it up and build around KP, but 1) the front office doesn’t seem interested in that and 2) there is legitimate concern that he could develop bad habits playing on a bad team.

    Just because the pelicans, kings, and cavs fucked up building around a star draft pick doesn’t mean it’s impossible. And just because the thunder drafted KD, Westbrook, and Harden doesn’t mean we would be able to do the same.

    The point I am making is that if we keep making incremental improvements around KP with players that fit well on smart contracts (see: Lee, Courtney and not Noah, Joakim) we can build a very good team.

    This will involve drafting well in the teens and making prudent signings, but it’s certainly a realistic scenario.

    The real question is if Phil is the GM to do it.

    As far as I can see: Noah was getting abused by Drummond early on

    I don’t know why people keep saying he was “abused”, Drummond had 7 FG’s and the ones I saw were unstoppable jump hooks. Plus he only had 1 offensive rebound, which is way below his average.

    The point I am making is that if we keep making incremental improvements around KP with players that fit well on smart contracts (see: Lee, Courtney and not Noah, Joakim) we can build a very good team.

    This will involve drafting well in the teens and making prudent signings, but it’s certainly a realistic scenario.

    The real question is if Phil is the GM to do it.

    Agree on all points. Phil is not the GM to do it. He many know more basketball in his pinky nail shavings than the sum total of all the posters here (minus DRed of course, who IS the GM to do it!), but he just doesn’t have the negotiating chops. Many of his deals have been defensible but the costs to do those deals have been too high. Arguably the Rose trade, Tyson trade, pretty much all his multi-year free agent signings have not necessarily been tilted towards the Knicks’ favor.

    Also, he is getting increasingly bizarre. His appeal was supposed to be that he’s the greatest champion coach the league has seen, and so if you want to play for a team that “knows” how to win, Phil’s your guy. But now we would be making signings in spite of him, not because of him.

    I don’t know why people keep saying he was “abused”, Drummond had 7 FG’s and the ones I saw were unstoppable jump hooks. Plus he only had 1 offensive rebound, which is way below his average.

    Noah did a great job on the boards, but I disagree that Drummond’s jump hooks are unstoppable. Dude has exactly ONE move in the post, so you have to overplay that. KOQ blocked one of them by doing just that. Or if you’re in a bad position, foul him.

    He did do a better job as the game went on, basically by shoving him 2-3 feet farther away from the basket.

    thanks everyone for the great read this morning – wow, frank you were seriously on fire…forget checking in on the knicks at espn – you all got it right here…

    that’s an interesting questions – fast forward a year and you have a choice of: rose, cp, jrue or hill for your point guard…i think i would pick jrue…

    I don’t know why people keep saying he was “abused”, Drummond had 7 FG’s and the ones I saw were unstoppable jump hooks. Plus he only had 1 offensive rebound, which is way below his average.

    It was apparent, if you watched the game, that Noah’s timing was off. Drummond’s shot was well on it’s way up when Noah reacted to try and defend – too late. He didn’t keep his hands up, like a good defender must. His 4th Qtr benching is probably due to that. It was plain to see and I’m sure, after about 3 or 4 of those scores, that Hornacek had to make an adjustment.

    BTW, as someone who is also healing from a torn rotator cuff myself, I think these bad habits stem from that. Although pain is infrequent now (my injury was in July) there are movements that cause great pain and discomfort. They come most of the time when I reach up for something. I now use my other arm to do that kind of stuff, most of the time it’s subconscious. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if that’s going on with Noah.

    I will say this: our long term outlook is positive IN SPITE OF and not because of the Rose trade. We’d probably be the same team this year if we ran out Jennings and Grant at the 1 and Rolo at the 5… Holiday has been nice but we probably could have gotten a comparable player in FA.

    I don’t know why CP3 is such a pipe dream. Facts:

    1. He is close with Melo
    2. Him and zinger would be an unstoppable pick and roll.
    3. Clippers are great but you have to go through the spurs and GS. In the east the main roadblock is Cleveland. It’s an easier path and the clippers have never made it past the second round. If they get bounced in the first or second round this year you gotta think he’ll be frustrated.
    4. Knicks have the cap space in theory to sign him. Not outright but with some maneuvering we can totally make room for him.

    I’m not saying it would happen but it’s not some pipe dream.

    Lavor Postell: I know this is crazy, but draft picks outside of the top of the lottery sometimes turn into good players like Kawhi Leonard, Rodney Hood, Rudy Gobert, Draymond Green, Chandler Parsons, Reggie Jackson, Jae Crowder, Avery Bradley, Serge Ibaka, Marc Gasol, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Jimmy Butler, etc.

    This is like saying, “there are stupid, lazy people who never try at all in life and who end up rich and happy. Therefore, there’s no reason for me to try for anything that I want in life.”

    The fact that the future can’t be predicted with perfect accuracy doesn’t mean that it can’t be predicted at all. Some choices are more likely to have better outcomes than others. Some choices are next to guaranteed to yield bad results such as burning all your money when your desire is to be wealthy. Holding onto and signing older vets is one of those. We basically know those players won’t get better.

    Right now, we see what the Knicks can be with KP playing great and a bunch of free agents making typical free agent salaries. Even the biggest optimists here aren’t predicting more than like 46 or 47 wins, and think of all the positive outcomes they are counting on for that to happen. Realistically, the supporting cast will only get worse as 30+ year olds tend to get worse, so even as KP improves, we likely won’t get any better than this if we stick to the current strategy.

    What are you talking about? We have draft picks, Randle, Baker etc. Who are these phantom 30 year olds? Melo and Noah? Good teams have vets….

    You guys are like arsonists or something. Always talking about blowing shit up. Having Melo and Noah is great for KP and his development. Being in a winning culture would be great for KP.

    The Spurs didn’t trade their whole team away just because they got Tim Duncan. They made smart picks and good free agent choices. That is a thing.

    @swiftandabundant

    If the Knicks win 50 games in spite of Rose being mediocre/bad, and the Clippers flame out again, then sure, there’s maybe a 10% chance Paul looks this way, but the odds of that are negligible IMHO.

    If you really want to lure a Chris Paul caliber free agent, the best way to do it is to try to build a team on your own that can win 50 games while maintaining max cap room rather than making all these choices that have no long term benefit other than maybe that 1 in 500 chance that the stars align and the max FA comes here

    @latke “realistically, the supporting cast will only get worse.”

    True, but here is what else is realistic: James Dolan owns the team. He’s not selling it, he’s not gonna keel over and die. Until that time, it’s highly likely he consents to a full tear down. So, what would you have us do? There is a very realistic path to contention which I’ve laid out involving good drafting and prudent free agent spending.

    Will we have to get lucky? Yes, but so do almost all teams the win titles. And if you want to see an example of a team that won a title based with core guys drafted in the late lottery or lower look no further than the golden state warriors.

    @er

    Lee, Melo, Noah are all 30 or older. Look around the league… I believe the only teams to start three 30+ year olds are LAC, San Antonio, Atlanta, Dallas, Chicago, NYK. That’s three elite teams, one recently elite team (Dallas) that I’m sure would have blown things up if not for Dirk and one team that made signings this past summer that we all probably agree were dumb (Chicago).

    And citing Baker and Randle as assets is like if I were to try to prove to you how rich I was by showing you the change in my pocket.

    And citing Baker and Randle as assets is like if I were to try to prove to you how rich I was by showing you the change in my pocket.

    So people here can site Grant but I cant bring up 2 players that are probably as good if not better than him while being younger….got it.

    @SJK

    “True, but here is what else is realistic: James Dolan owns the team. He’s not selling it, he’s not gonna keel over and die. Until that time, it’s highly likely he consents to a full tear down. So, what would you have us do?”

    We aren’t doing anything. We have no real chance to impact the choices the team makes. All we’re doing here is talking about where the Knicks are. I would have us have honest conversations! For me at least, imagining the possibilities if ownership changed its ways is a wonderful escape.

    Also 30 is not some kind of drop dead number. Melo and Lee look fine….Noah is a little haggard but so what, we got plenty of Centers. You are just throwing this arbitrary number of 30 out here like it means something. The Knicks have 3 rotation players that are 30. As they get worse the young guys will have to improve and step up. Many here already think Melo is the #2 on the team and Lee and Noah are role players. The Knicks really only need better PG play to be a better team RIGHT NOW!

    So people here can site Grant but I cant bring up 2 players that are probably as good if not better than him while being younger….got it.

    @er

    Who is citing Grant? If we still had Jerian Grant, and you were like “Hey, we have Jerian!!!”, I would have said the exact same thing. Just because Baker and Randle are worth keeping, doesn’t make them valuable. Think about it, er… what other team that you respect missed the playoffs 3x in a row and still managed to have have one of the oldest ten rosters in the league with a rotation that’s even older?

    Here are some numbers regarding age last season… The number of players last season who had WS/48 over .100 and played at least 1800 minutes last season broken down by age:

    age 20-25: 33
    age 26-31: 39
    age 32+: 4

    Having older players puts your team on a downward trajectory, and the early 30s are a veritable minefield in terms of player health and productivity.

    It was apparent, if you watched the game, that Noah’s timing was off. Drummond’s shot was well on it’s way up when Noah reacted to try and defend – too late. He didn’t keep his hands up, like a good defender must. His 4th Qtr benching is probably due to that. It was plain to see and I’m sure, after about 3 or 4 of those scores, that Hornacek had to make an adjustment.

    Drummond is averaging 14.9 points and 13.8 rebounds a game. Last night he had 15 points on 13 FGA, and 9 rebounds. I still don’t get this notion that he destroyed Noah.

    Who is citing Grant

    You clearly don’t read this blog.

    oldest ten rosters

    There are only 30 teams.

    Here are some numbers regarding age last season… The number of players last season who had WS/48 over .100 and played at least 1800 minutes last season broken down by age:

    Again you are being arbitrary….what does 1800 mins have to do with being over 30. I don’t want to sound like I am advocating for old players. Im advocating for good players. Good players are over 30 they help groom the young players as well. We only have 3… and one already only plays like 23 mins a game

    @latke, sure but wouldn’t you say that an honest discussion would revolve around honest expectations for what the team should do within the realm of possibility?

    The only way the team gets blown up is if we are way below 500 around the trade deadline. I just don’t see that happening.

    This is like saying, “there are stupid, lazy people who never try at all in life and who end up rich and happy. Therefore, there’s no reason for me to try for anything that I want in life.”

    No, it’s nothing like that. It’s pointing out that in every draft there are guys who don’t get picked in the lottery who go on to become excellent NBA players.

    The fact that the future can’t be predicted with perfect accuracy doesn’t mean that it can’t be predicted at all. Some choices are more likely to have better outcomes than others. Some choices are next to guaranteed to yield bad results such as burning all your money when your desire is to be wealthy. Holding onto and signing older vets is one of those. We basically know those players won’t get better.

    Cool. We have our picks. We can use those picks to supplement veteran talent with youth. That’s possible actually.

    Right now, we see what the Knicks can be with KP playing great and a bunch of free agents making typical free agent salaries. Even the biggest optimists here aren’t predicting more than like 46 or 47 wins, and think of all the positive outcomes they are counting on for that to happen. Realistically, the supporting cast will only get worse as 30+ year olds tend to get worse, so even as KP improves, we likely won’t get any better than this if we stick to the current strategy.

    We can actually alter the supporting cast through trades and free agency. We also could potentially have cap space this summer to upgrade the roster. Shit, if the Knicks blow ass we can move Melo and Lee for assets, pass on re-signing Rose, tank our way to a high pick and Noah’s contract won’t matter because we probably won’t be looking to compete in the free agent market for awhile. There is flexibility here if the Knicks choose to pivot. This isn’t similar to previous iterations of win now Knicks teams.

    Latke is spitting fire. The pollyannaish contention that Paul or any FA is around the corner to turn this team around into a bonified title contender probably ain’t happening. Meanwhile, our high paid starters are getting older on the wrong side of 30.

    We better start thinking of ways to infuse cheap, effective talent around KP sooner rather than later. Trading Melo might have to become a reality sooner rather than later.

    Hey, did Lebron take last night’s game off because he was traumatized by Phil’s posse reference? Is he a delicate snowflake in disguise?

    Shit, if the Knicks blow ass we can move Melo and Lee for assets, pass on re-signing Rose, tank our way to a high pick and Noah’s contract won’t matter because we probably won’t be looking to compete in the free agent market for awhile. There is flexibility here if the Knicks choose to pivot. This isn’t similar to previous iterations of win now Knicks teams.

    To the best of our knowledge, we absolutely cannot trade Melo due to yet another stupid thing we did while in faux “win now” mode. We’re probably stuck with both Noah and Melo ’til the bitter end, and it wasn’t exactly difficult to guess that would be problematic the day both contracts were signed.

    To the best of our knowledge, we absolutely cannot trade Melo due to yet another stupid thing we did while in faux “win now” mode. We’re probably stuck with both Noah and Melo ’til the bitter end, and it wasn’t exactly difficult to guess that would be problematic the day both contracts were signed.

    If we suck ass I’m fairly confident Melo would be willing to waive his NTC at this stage.

    Melo at 57 TS% isn’t something I’d describe as problematic anyways.

    Melo would only leave for a big-city team that would want him, could afford him and where he would be a star. So, the odds of Melo leaving are virtually zero.

    Cna’t we all just get along? lol
    The team won two in a row. At least they have proven they can beat the teams that suck.
    And we have KP.

    Is it some kind of crime to enjoy watching the Knicks win a game where KP looks like a future superstar and Melo fills in around him as an efficient 2nd option? Nobody is claiming the Knicks are some kind of championship contender or even a playoff lock.

    I hope that KP isn’t too tired tonight after his 40 minutes yesterday. We’ll need a little more out of Willy and Kyle.

    The Knicks have the 8th most difficult schedule in the league at this point and are 5-6 with every loss coming to a team most everybody predicted to be better than the Knicks on this board and elsewhere.

    @er

    1800 minutes is a way of taking into account that even productive older players tend to get hurt a lot more often. The less a player is on the floor, the less he helps you win.

    Lavor Postell: We can actually alter the supporting cast through trades and free agency.

    Yeah, we can. But as long as we’re dealing with veteran free agents, you’re not getting value. It’s like buying ready-made food. The player who is ready to go off the shelf at his peak costs more, especially when the CBA is constructed in a way where true max dudes and rookie scale players make less than their FA values. Trades do very little to change the total talent of a team unless they are trades that involve a large difference between the age of the players. Why would the veteran free agent we trade our veteran free agent for or we sign after our other veteran free agent expires be significantly more productive? FA is basically an auction. You have 29 other GMs evaluating these dudes. What are the odds you find a bargain?

    It’s pointing out that in every draft there are guys who don’t get picked in the lottery who go on to become excellent NBA players.

    This is the same as saying, “If I don’t try, I still might get what I want.” You are saying, essentially, that even if the Knicks don’t try to maximize their chances of finding a star, they still might find one. The odds are significantly, lower but it still could happen! That’s not a rationale just like in my example, seeing others who succeed without effort is not a rationale for you to not try.

    Shit, if the Knicks blow ass we can move Melo and Lee for assets

    There was a point where this exact point could have been made about Stoudemire, Marbury, Houston, and the litany of other high risk, low reward brand name players that the Knicks condescend to their fans by pursuing. Why wasn’t NYK able to get value for them?

    Trades do very little to change the total talent of a team unless they are trades that involve a large difference between the age of the players. Why would the veteran free agent we trade our veteran free agent for or we sign after our other veteran free agent expires be significantly more productive per dollar? FA is basically an auction. You have 29 other GMs evaluating these dudes. What are the odds you find a bargain?

    Trades quite often change total talent. That’s why there’s usually a winner and loser in every trade. You can point to any number of deals over the years that gave a team a significant talent upgrade.

    Teams find bargains in FA every year. The Hawks have been successful doing just that. Spurs do it all the time as well.

    You are saying, essentially, that even if the Knicks don’t try to maximize their chances of finding a star, they still might find one. The odds are significantly, lower but it still could happen! That’s not a rationale just like in my example, seeing others who succeed without effort is not a rationale for you to not try.

    You’re saying that we should tank because it gives us better odds to find a running partner for KP long-term. I’m saying that every single year you can find those guys without tanking. Drafting high doesn’t guarantee you’ll be successful. Plenty of franchises draft high annually and suck annually.

    There was a point where this exact point could have been made about Stoudemire, Marbury, Houston, and the litany of other high risk, low reward brand name players that the Knicks condescend to their fans by pursuing. Why weren’t the Knicks able to get value…

    STAT and Houston had debilitating injuries and Houston was far more overpaid and limited than Melo. In all those scenarios the team was stuck in a situation where they didn’t have all their picks. It makes a big difference. The Knicks haven’t sacrificed picks to…

    The Knicks have the 30th ranked defense out of 30 teams.

    On the bright side, the Knicks can’t move down any further.

    I watched Stan van Gundy’s post game comments. He thought Noah was the key to the Knicks winning, particularly with his seven offensive rebounds. Given that Drummond was below his season averages, this makes sense. And Noah consistently has a good plus minus this season. I don’t know why Noah plays so few minutes, but he’s definitely helping. Van Gundy also thought Ross’s game was good. Honestly, a lot of the complaints on this board seem to be because anyone who gets paid an average NBA salary or more can’t ever do enough. Get used to it, it’s normal to pay some players like that. We actually seem to have a normal NBA team, even including average draft picks, which by Knick’s historical standards, is pretty good.

    I think I read somewhere that Rose was particularly bad last season on back to backs, so it’ll be interesting to see if that holds true this season. Is this our first b2b?

    The Hawks have been successful doing just that. Spurs do it all the time as well.

    The Hawks and Spurs make investments in unknown players. Their free agent wins (other than Lamarcus Aldridge) are players like Danny Green (signed at age 23), Demarre Carroll (signed at 27), Jonathan Simmons (signed at 26 with no previous NBA experience), Kent Bazemore (signed at age 23). These are players few people had even heard of when they were signed by ATL or SAS. They rarely if ever give significant money to players who’ve already had opportunities to show their talent.

    ATL specifically let its aging cast go when they dropped down to low 40s in terms of wins. They didn’t re-sign Josh Smith and traded Joe Johnson. they let go of Teague so they could give minutes to their younger PG. If we were copying their playbook, Melo, Chandler and Stoudemire all would have been gone by the end of 2011/2012.

    I forgot that Rose had knee surgery. They said on pregame that that’s why he hasn’t played on back-to-backs. This is his first time this year and Beale is also back after a bad hammy.

    “We’re probably stuck with both Noah and Melo ’til the bitter end, and it wasn’t exactly difficult to guess that would be problematic the day both contracts were signed.”

    Unless you see reason to believe both players can age extremely well, Melo in particular.

    No, we had two other back to backs, Detroit and Houston early in the season, then the Celtics and Raptors recently

    @90

    You guys are like arsonists or something. Always talking about blowing shit up. Having Melo and Noah is great for KP and his development. Being in a winning culture would be great for KP.

    c’mon er – what do you expect…we are a bunch of new yorkers after all…although i’m not so sure about reub…hmmmmmm, maybe he’s a transplant from florida, indiana or someplace where folks are super nice and overly optimistic…

    Every time Derrick Rose tunnel visions to the rim and throws up a shitty floater with an open Porzingis I throw up a bit

    @131 – Good question He was on par.

    11/1 @Det (19 pt,2 Ast,5 Reb)
    11/2 v Hou (16, 4, 4)

    11/11 @Bos (11,6,4) – had 7 TO
    11/12 @Tor (21,4,4)

    And he played at least 27 minutes in all games.

    wily’s per 36
    pts 15.8
    reb 13.2
    2p fg% .500
    ast 1.3
    stl 1.8
    blk 1.3
    to 4.8

    small sample and he also happens to have a microscopic ftr rate but the to’s will def come down… when it does i think we have a very good player…

    @ 130
    I moved to LA in March bc i found the love of my life who is an LA gal. I think there is something instinctively pessimistic about us New Yorkers (growing up in the ultimate city of hustle where you can find anything… and it’s bootleg version), so I’m going to use your post the next time my gf accuses me of being a pessimist.

    In regards to KP, I was thinking that an average of 18-something a game with close to 40% 3fg would be a realistic next step for him this season. But maaaaaaaan, that efficiency he’s showing tho.

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