Knicks Morning News (2016.10.10)

  • [SNY Knicks] Jennings and Randle play roles to perfection in win
    (Sunday, October 09, 2016 10:50:02 AM)

    On Saturday, the Knicks received all of the energy they needed from the point guard position and then some, despite Derrick Rose’s absence.

  • [NYPost] There are reasons to doubt the story of Derrick Rose’s accuser
    (Sunday, October 09, 2016 11:48:19 PM)

    This trial boils down to one issue: whether the accuser consented to intercourse with Derrick Rose and his friends. Because there is a complete absence of any physical evidence, such as a rape kit or corroborating medical report — a fact that favors Rose — the jury must decide whom to believe based on witnesses,…

  • [NYPost] How Porzingis’ game entices and challenges Hornacek
    (Sunday, October 09, 2016 1:23:30 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis enjoyed a memorable debut season with the Knicks, finishing second in the Rookie of the Year voting, and though he won’t be required to shoulder the same offensive responsibility as last season, the 21-year-old expects to be able to do more than ever. With the additions of Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah and Brandon…

  • [NYPost] Hornacek: Phil Jackson hasn’t been the triangle tyrant I feared
    (Sunday, October 09, 2016 11:53:49 AM)

    The Knicks didn’t run much of the triangle offense in their preseason opener. In their second showing Saturday night, the system was showcased a little bit more, but still took a backseat to the faster-paced offense preferred by Jeff Hornacek. The new Knicks coach wouldn’t have been surprised if Phil Jackson wanted to see more…

  • [NYDN] Jeff Hornacek admits Knicks players ‘don’t like to run’ triangle
    (Sunday, October 09, 2016 12:50:52 PM)

    Jeff Hornacek is intent on updating Phil Jackson’s antiquated triangle offense and even admitted what is already painfully obvious.

  • [NYTimes] Sparks 78, Lynx 76 | Finals Los Angeles leads series, 1-0: Sparks’ Alana Beard Hits Buzzer-Beater to Defeat Lynx in Game 1
    (Monday, October 10, 2016 4:30:11 AM)

    With two M.V.P. teammates drawing attention, Beard buried a baseline jumper to give Los Angeles the first game of the W.N.B.A. finals over the Minnesota Lynx.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah Distract Knicks, Right on Schedule
    (Monday, October 10, 2016 12:29:13 AM)

    In another preseason of complications, Rose is tending to legal troubles in a California court, and Noah is sidelined by a sore hamstring.

  • [NYTimes] Harden’s Preseason Remains Off to a Flying Start
    (Monday, October 10, 2016 4:04:18 AM)

    Preseason statistics often can be misleading.

  • [NYTimes] Beard’s Jumper Lifts Sparks Over Lynx in Game 1
    (Sunday, October 09, 2016 11:04:00 PM)

    In a championship series filled with stars, Alana Beard sometimes can get lost with so much attention on Minnesota’s four Olympians and the two MVPs in Los Angeles.

  • [NYTimes] Rockets Down Pelicans 123-117 in Shanghai Exhibition Game
    (Sunday, October 09, 2016 2:36:41 PM)

    James Harden had 26 points and 15 assists and Eric Gordon went 5 for 10 from three-point range to help lead the Houston Rockets to a 123-117 win over the New Orleans Pelicans in a preseason exhibition game in Shanghai, China on Sunday night.

  • [NY Newsday] Jeff Hornacek given some latitude on the triangle by Phil Jackson
    (Sunday, October 09, 2016 7:38:35 PM)

    As the Knicks were getting some extra shots up after practice, Jeff Hornacek and Phil Jackson sat on the scorer’s table talking. The new coach said the team president wasn’t telling him to run the triangle more, and he’s somewhat surprised he hasn’t.

  • [ESPN] Monday’s Knicks News: Kristaps Porzingis’ game will challenge Jeff Hornacek
    (Monday, October 10, 2016 5:55:03 AM)

    Monday’s Knicks News: Kristaps Porzingis’ game will challenge Jeff Hornacek

  • [ESPN] Hornacek: Knicks prez Jackson not meddling
    (Sunday, October 09, 2016 2:44:33 PM)

    Hornacek: Knicks prez Jackson not meddling

  • 172 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2016.10.10)”

    Here’s a gem of a passage from Isola’s article linked above – brackets mine

    “I think that’s where most people are coming from,” Hornacek said. “If you end up being a slowdown team and never end up getting easy buckets and you’re running that [Triangle] all the time… guys, first of all, don’t like to run it.

    “But secondly, it makes it very difficult to get easy buckets early in the offense and I think in today’s game those early buckets are nice to get. We’re not running it every time. We’re mixing it here and there. Hopefully, for us it’s a good thing we can do when we need to execute a play on a dead ball that we have something to go to.”

    The implication is that Hornacek is fine running the triangle following time outs and dead balls but not after made baskets.

    And re: the endless discussion over how terrible Phil has been. I wrote that entire (now seemingly ridiculous) letter to Dolan, so I am obviously no Phil Jackson fan. That said, “this time is different” is actually true in my opinion — if only because he managed to land Kristaps, the most promising draft pick for us since Patrick Ewing, and also he has not traded any 1st round picks away*. These are major differences with all the regimes over the last 16+ years. It is not the “same old Knicks” even though on the surface it may seem to be.

    *I don’t count Jerian Grant because it was clear at least to me that Grant is not a special player — remember, he and the coaching staff saw Grant A LOT, and did not think trading him was a deal breaker. Hornacek was already coach, and wanted a penetrating attacking guard to run his system — and traded Grant anyway.

    It would have been stupid even by Dolan’s standards to trade away 1’s during the past 3 years. The test would be if you’re 27:17 at the all star break and people start saying oh if we get another shooter we’re a championship team. Enter whichever_team_Rudy_Gay_is_on_at_that_time.

    I don’t count Jerian Grant because it was clear at least to me that Grant is not a special player — remember, he and the coaching staff saw Grant A LOT, and did not think trading him was a deal breaker. Hornacek was already coach, and wanted a penetrating attacking guard to run his system — and traded Grant anyway.

    Being dismissive of all young talent not deemed to be “special” is a great way to wind up with a barren youth pipeline. Does any team boast 15 “special” players? Even Golden State and the Spurs need cost controlled, decent, unremarkable players to soak up the minute the “special” guys can’t (Rush, Ezeli, Barnes, Mills, Anderson, etc.). Phil’s acquisition of Kuzminskas, Randle, Hernangomez, and Holiday often gets touted as evidence of his commitment to accumulating young talent. Are they going to get ditched the second someone decides they might not be “special”? I sure hope not.

    I also don’t buy that any kind of final determination on Jerian Grant’s career should be made from 1100 rookie minutes. Especially when the people selling it are also saying we need to see more from Derrick Rose (3500+ minutes in seasons 7 and 8) before we can make a determination about his value.

    I’m a Knicks fan. I swear. I hope somehow, some way, it all works out. I do not see that as likely in the near future right now.

    You are so deranged that you are making Rudy gay phantom trades lol

    Oy. Note to self: don’t use placeholders in arguments here. Some people won’t get it.

    Being dismissive of all young talent not deemed to be “special” is a great way to wind up with a barren youth pipeline.

    What do you think Grants upside is?

    If the best that can be said of Phil Jackson is that he hasn’t been as bad as his predecessors when it comes to trading first round picks, his defense becomes an unintended indictment.

    To me, the burden is on Jackson to prove that he is better than his record as GM. Two terrible seasons plus a shaky outlook for the upcoming one is not something to be proud of.

    I think he is grossly inept as a GM, but wonder how many losses are necessary for the majority to perceive it the same way?

    You do know that this is his first GM gig right? To write him off as a failure after some struggles is weird. Also, the fact that things are turning around positively in terms of the current team and future prospects (Willy,Randle etc) is just a fly in the ointment for your narrative.

    how do you list Randle as a future prospect when he has no NBA minutes and then write off a first round draft pick who played 1100 rookie minutes and performed along the lines of many other rookie point guards–some of whom went on to be successful, some of whom didn’t.

    i feel like a lot of us don’t understand why a bird in hand is worth two in the bush

    Calling Jackson’s record “some struggles” and saying things are “turning around positively” for a current team that hasn’t played a single season game is pretty delusional.

    And yes, this is his first gig as a GM. Perhaps that’s the reason he is so bad at it, as you inadvertently imply.

    “turning around positively

    = Porzingis, having All draft picks, youth at the back end of roster, etc

    I didn’t imply anything, he hasn’t been good, but he hasn’t been awful either.

    If the best that can be said of Phil Jackson is that he hasn’t been as bad as his predecessors when it comes to trading first round picks, his defense becomes an unintended indictment.

    Funny how you left out the actual best thing about Phil’s tenure, which is Kristaps Porzingis. Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

    how do you list Randle as a future prospect when he has no NBA minutes and then write off a first round draft pick who played 1100 rookie minutes and performed along the lines of many other rookie point guards–some of whom went on to be successful, some of whom didn’t.

    i feel like a lot of us don’t understand why a bird in hand is worth two in the bush

    Its not that im writing off Grant, its that he wont be any great shakes. He may have a long decent career as a back up for sure. My thinking is that we can tell already that he wont be a center piece to any good team, therefore that is a replacement level player.

    Look at Jeremy Lin for example….that guy had great flashes and is still barely above a replacement player.

    how do you list Randle as a future prospect when he has no NBA minutes and then write off a first round draft pick who played 1100 rookie minutes and performed along the lines of many other rookie point guards–some of whom went on to be successful, some of whom didn’t.

    i feel like a lot of us don’t understand why a bird in hand is worth two in the bush

    Randle is younger than Grant and it seems quite feasible he could replicate Grant’s craptastic production over 1100 minutes. Just because Phil soured on him and traded him doesn’t mean he doesn’t value young players that could be solid, it means that he probably doesn’t feel Grant will be solid.

    Like, if we had traded Shumpert after his 2nd season I’m sure this board, including me, would have been apopleptic about it. In hindsight that would have been the perfect time to do so. Just being young and having “upside” or a first round pedigree doesn’t mean much. If he didn’t think Grant was all that good and preferred to have the extra roster spot to sign a back-up PG (Jennings) or a different young PG prospect (Randle) that’s not an illogical or short-sighted move.

    Fact is people on this board determined after Hardaway’s rookie season he was garbage and were ready to trade him then. Grant had an objectively worse season and did so despite coming into the league at an older age. You can disagree with the Rose trade without pretending like Jerian Grant showed some irreplaceable upside that we gave up on.

    The Knicks Job was probably one of the worst to take over if not THE Worst job in the League.

    I’m not crying over Jerian Grant. He can’t dribble with his left hand, his handle is so shaky everytime he brings the ball up it makes me cringe.

    I think Phil Jackson’s biggest mistake as Knicks President was giving Carmelo Anthony the no-trade clause. Or maybe even Resigning him period.
    Now we are in this weird win-now mode. Only were probably not good enough to “Win-now”. And Why?
    It’s to appease Carmelo and his Ego.

    However the fact that we didn’t have all our first round picks I can’t totally blame him for not going the Philadelphia route.

    There was really never an easy route for Phil to go. With all that being said. I’m rooting hard as hell that this team wins and Gets maybe a 5,6 seed. Everyone stays healthy. Rose has a big year. Noah stays healthy and Porzingis improves. But thats just me speaking as a Knicks Loyalist.

    Funny how you left out the actual best thing about Phil’s tenure, which is Kristaps Porzingis.

    Porzingis is the best thing that has happened to Jackson. But he does not get full credit for it because that was not his goal. His stated goal was the playoffs and if he had succeeded, there would not be Porzingis.

    BTW, Porzingis is a tantalizingly good prospect, but using him as proof of success for anything is quite premature. He may not amount to anything other than a pedestrian center/pf or he may turn into a superstar. The jury is still out on him. Those are the facts.

    He may not amount to anything other than a pedestrian center/pf or he may turn into a superstar. The jury is still out on him. Those are the facts.

    But we are boo hooing about Grant?

    Porzingis is the best thing that has happened to Jackson. But he does not get full credit for it because that was not his goal. His stated goal was the playoffs and if he had succeeded, there would not be Porzingis.

    This argument perpetuated by zealots on this blog is mind-numbing. This is like saying the creators of Viagra get no credit because the intent was to create a hypertension medicine.

    @17 Grant had an objectively worse season and did so despite coming into the league at an older age.

    Thank you. Grant wasn’t a 1-and-done in college, he graduated. And for someone who played all 4 years to come into the league and still look terrified on the court is…disheartening. I tried to give him a pass by saying his struggles are based on the triangle, or that he just needed more playing time, or that Fish was killing his confidence. None of those things really mattered. Grant is a backup. That’s it. So, for the people pining over him, don’t worry. We’ll get the same production out of Randle and Baker.

    @18 There was really never an easy route for Phil to go

    That’s a fair point, especially since the league doesn’t work like a video game where you can make fantastic trades any time you want. And I’m with you about the NTC. That was a horrible, unnecessary choice. But, here we are.

    BTW, Porzingis is a tantalizingly good prospect, but using him as proof of success for anything is quite premature. He may not amount to anything other than a pedestrian center/pf or he may turn into a superstar. The jury is still out on him. Those are the facts.

    Yes, our sample size is relatively small, but since we’re talking about facts and probabilities:

    Here are the players in NBA history who have averaged (per 100 possessions) 25 points, 13 rebounds, and 3 blocks in their age 20 season:

    Anthony Davis
    Shaquille O’Neal
    Chris Webber
    Porzingis

    In fact, if you increase that range all the way out to the age 23 season, the only players you get are:

    Anthony Davis
    Tim Duncan
    Dwight Howard
    Zydrunas Ilgauskas
    Bob McAdoo
    Yao Ming
    Alonzo Mourning
    Jermaine O’Neal
    Shaquille O’Neal
    Olajuwon
    Porzingis
    Ralph Sampson
    Chris Webber

    The worst players on that list were stars. All but J O’Neal, Ilgauskas, and Webber are in or will be in the Hall of Fame (and Webber has a pretty good case).

    KP is amazing. There literally has never been another player like him in NBA history. Per 100 poss – 25/13/3 at age 20. And all the other players combined barely attempted as many 3’s as Kristaps made last year.

    Now – a bunch of guys on that list also had serious injuries. IMHO that’s the only thing that could hold him back.

    If we dont make playoffs this year. What is the likelihood in Carmelo waiving his no-trade clause. I think the percentage has got to be about 70%.

    I think both parties should be willing to move on. Maybe we can get an few good young pieces for Melo. Maybe an extra draft pick and a rotational player or two.

    This has got to be a win or bust yr for Melo or else he’s just waisting his Career. And for what? His big ass Ego that he thinks he’s a top 10 player who’s capable of leading this team. He’s much more Chris Bosh than Lebron James. He needs to Go somewhere and enjoy his dwindling years as a 2nd or 3rd fiddle.

    Btw I know that this is an old argument and we’ve been down this street b4 but I just can’t let it go.

    This has got to be a win or bust yr for Melo or else he’s just waisting his Career. And for what? His big ass Ego that he thinks he’s a top 10 player who’s capable of leading this team. He’s much more Chris Bosh than Lebron James. He needs to Go somewhere and enjoy his dwindling years as a 2nd or 3rd fiddle.

    Maybe he’s enjoying just living in New York and being a Knick? Not every player has to feel that without winning a title by any means necessary their career is a failure and he said as much this summer.

    Melo isn’t leaving especially after we mortgaged a third of our cap for Courtney Lee and Jo Noah

    Barring another 15-20 win season he’s staying–he loves this city, the city loves him, and his family is happy here. There’s no reason for him to leave unless Golden State or Cleveland come knocking.

    @Lavor Postell

    The Object of the game is to Win. Especially when you are making the kind of Money he is.

    He’s had a fine career and I think he’s a borderline hall of famer. I dont believe he has to win a title to validate his career. All I’m sayin is that he is waisting his good Athletic years trying to be the Man for a loosing team.

    I appreciate & respect him for wanting to be here the same way I appreciate Amare Stoudemire. But the focus needs to be on Winning.
    And so far we haven’t done that with Melo.

    What do you think Grants upside is?

    Who knows? I think it’s really dumb to decide to keep or dump first year players based on what their theoretical “upside” is. If Grant turns out to be a league average player, well, Miami made four consecutive finals and won two of them with league average-ish point guard production. We’re paying Courtney Lee $13m a season in hopes that he can continue to be around league average. There just so happens to be a lot of value in having rotation level players. If he’s better than that, great! If he’s a scrub, no harm no foul! We’d pay him his meager salary and that’s that. It’s hard to fathom how dumb it is to trade him for Derrick Rose after one year because he probably won’t be a “star” or whatever.

    None of those things really mattered. Grant is a backup. That’s it. So, for the people pining over him, don’t worry. We’ll get the same production out of Randle and Baker.

    Grant was 4/11 for rookie guards (500+ minutes) in WP48, and 9/15 in WS/48 (BRef counts more players as guards than BSG), which is far from stellar but still good enough to be ahead of the 2nd, 5th, and 7th overall picks in his draft. Yes, he was older than most of these guys. That’s certainly fair to take into account. No, he was not some obviously awful scrub who clearly had no future. He was the kind of player smart teams wait and see with unless a great opportunity (e.g. not bidding against yourself for Derrick Rose) presents itself.

    Miami had something called the big 3 and Ray Allen. Google them.

    Yes, it’s a wonder they were able to fit all of those high quality players under the old(!) cap and still get decent production from other roster spots. It’s almost as if they didn’t dump off decent, cheap players because they weren’t going to be stars.

    It’s almost as if they didn’t dump off decent, cheap players because they weren’t going to be stars.

    lol they dumped players and draft picks for nothing just to be able to clear space to sign the big 3, then filled the roster with a bunch of title-chasers at the ends of their careers. Sure, if that’s the plan then I’m all for it!

    @28 -I get where you’re coming from, which seems to be: hold on to your cheap assets since they’re far more movable, and since they give you more cap flexibility to sign free agents. Hopefully I got that right. And if I did, then I agree with you as far as being fiscally responsible and bench construction.

    The disagreement (such as it is) would be that I don’t see a difference between Grant and the other kids we got to replace him. Certainly not in skill set. If I had a nickel for every time I watched Grant bring the ball up the court and pick up his dribble at the top of the key, I’d…well…I’d have like 80 cents. It’s different if he was a shooter. Or a slasher. But he wasn’t, which is odd considering the way he played at Notre Dame. Who knows, though. He could have an amazing sophomore year. I hope he does. Just like I hope the kids can provide the …production that Grant gave us.

    dumping ineffective young players early is actually not a terrible strategy… more often than not.. if they are terrible… they are terrible…

    if you belong in the league it’s usually a yes or no… more often than not it’s better to keep them to develop than to invest more money to replace them….

    moving grant was probably the right idea… in general we did really great with porzingis and promising with wily… everyone else is either a long shot or have no chance to contribute as far as young guys are concerned…

    I have to side with the optimists here, even though I hated the trade. From the two preseason games, our guard play is much more dynamic this year. And it’s true we gave up Grant, but we still have young prospects. Hernangomez looks like a better prospect than Grant did, for example. The team is probably not a disaster this year, and that’s nice. Whether it’s worth our last two disastrous seasons is hard to say. But at least I’m looking forward to seeing them this year.

    The only valuable part of Jerian Grant was his rookie contract and I’d rather have Chasson Randle at this point.

    From the two preseason games, our guard play is much more dynamic this year

    Yes, well, we got slaughtered in one of those games and the other was against the Nets.

    Our point guards are certainly faster than Jose Calderon. Wether or not that translates into more effective play isn’t clear yet.

    Jerian Grant is meaningless. My criticism of Jackson is about how he’s spent assets over the course of his tenure. I’d like to hear examples of other teams who were as bad and as old as the Knicks have been the last few years and haven’t made a single significant trade to get younger and haven’t targeted young players in free agency. Why does it makes sense for the Knicks to zig when every other team in their position in the context of recent CBAs has chosen to zag?

    And please don’t cite 2nd round picks or Shane Larkin. PJ essentially waived Shane Larkin before he’d played a game for the Knicks, and 2nd round picks are the NBA equivalent of the breath mints you get after paying for your meal at a diner. Even the Tim Hardaway trade ended up being a wash in terms of youth. Grant was only about 7 months younger than Hardaway.

    Out of curiousity….what did Grant do well? What is the skill set he possesses that people think we can’t live without? If you’re a bench player (which is the majority of not just the NBA, but most professional team sports) you should have a specific skill that keeps you in the L, right? Sure, you could say he needs time to develop, but even with that mindset, you can usually see the 1 thing that player does well. Never saw that with Grant.

    Phil has added Willy, N’Dour, Randle, Baker and Plumlee without using more than a single #2 draft pick. And I believe that he bought that pick. Amazing!

    reub, those are not acquisitions. They are filler players that exist on basically every NBA roster. Sure, occasionally one pans out into rotation players or better, but there is no advantage to that relative to other NBA rosters. Hernangomez was a second round pick. I’m happy we have him, but the amount PJ has invested into discovering young talent is ridiculously low relative to what other already great teams invest in their pipelines let alone teams that are as bad as the Knicks have been.

    It’s almost like when Phil took over he was out 2 first round picks over the teams next 3 years, you know those things that are the most common way to add young talent every year?

    1. Phil inherited a franchise with no pick that summer and no picks this last summer either. Going forward we have picks.

    2. Who the hell cares if the young players we acquire are second rounders or undrafted? The circular logic some of you guys go to to bash Phil is ridiculous. You say the guys we currently have are end of the bench filler but the second we let them go (cough cough Galloway) they become good young players we gave up on developing. Its crazy.

    Fact – we have a potential superstar who is 20 that was drafted BY PHIL. He could have traded down for more picks or picked a safer choice like Winslow but instead he took the risk and the heat and drafted Zinger.

    Fact – Willie H is all ready showing himself to be a good pick up. Phil got him in the second round in a deep draft and he would have been a first rounder this year.

    Fact – we have a first round pick and 2 second round picks next year. We have a first round and a second round the year after and a first round and 2 second round picks in 2019. Does that sound like he’s mortgaging the future?

    I get being mad about Grant but come on. He wasn’t some one and done 19 year old who showed raw potential. He’s a four year college grad who didn’t show much last year. The chances of him being good are not that great. And Phil has found some other young guards to take his place. Of course you’ll crap on them all year for being end of bench dudes and then when we let them go you’ll magically start pining over them.

    our team is gonna be good this year. And we’re gonna add young players the next few years around a rising young player who could be the best player this franchise has ever drafted.

    There really aren’t that many “great” teams, right? You’ve got the Spurs, Warriors, and, by virtue of having LeBron, the Cavs. The Warriors would have young talent, but that’s because they’ve sucked and still had their picks, which can’t be said about us. The Spurs? They’ve also had late 1st round picks and it remains to see if Kyle Anderson will be anything more than a decent player, same as Murray. The Cavs don’t really have a ton of young talent.

    So, in the effort to get more young talent, you normally have to trade somebody. Melo ain’t going nowhere. Aside from him, what trade value do we have? Like, who would we trade for a 1st rounder? Especially a 1st rounder in the top 15 picks.

    Finding young guards is as easy as signing guys who are young to play guard. Is Randle going to be better than Grant? Maybe, if he makes the team. Grant sucked. Of course, nothing prevented us from keeping Grant and signing Randle

    Flash back a couple of years ago:

    Phil brought in Thanasis, Cleanthony Early, Shane Larkin, Ricky Ledo, Travis Wear and Quincy Acy! We’re LOADED with young talent!

    So you’re saying this group of youngsters has no talent? I want to get you on record.

    Or do you have to wait for stats to tell you?

    Speaking of Early and Thanasis, where are they? Europe?

    So I see we’ve cycled back to arguing about Grant and Galloway. Can Jimmer be far behind?

    Wow what a reach JK47! Lol good job leaving Langston and Hardaway off the list too

    One of them was not on the team at the time, and the other was not brought in by Phil, Mr. Smart Guy.

    So now the nattering nabobs of negativity are smearing our good young players before they have even played in a single regular season game. And some call themselves Knick fans.

    So you’re saying this group of youngsters has no talent? I want to get you on record.

    No, I’m saying that the group of youngsters on the roster is actually quite similar in pedigree to the group of youngsters that was on the 2014-2015 squad: back end roster filler. Most of those guys weren’t NBA caliber players, and most of the guys populating the back end of the roster right now probably won’t be NBA caliber players either. It’s better to have guys like that than to have washed up veterans with zero chance to improve, so YAY to Phil for that! I don’t think it’s a bad idea to keep rolling the dice with players like this. I’m just saying, just about every team in the NBA has back-end roster guys like this who are longshots to stick in the league.

    One of the young players on that 2014-2015 Knick team actually did sort of pan out, and looks like he’ll stick as a rotation player: Langston Galloway. So it’s cool that we have him as a good cheap rotation piece, locked up on a value contract… Oh. Never mind.

    Mhm, he was brought in midseason. JK47 was referring to the beginning, before people realized all those players sucked.

    One of the young players on that 2014-2015 Knick team actually did sort of pan out, and looks like he’ll stick as a rotation player: Langston Galloway. So it’s cool that we have him as a good cheap rotation piece, locked up on a value contract… Oh. Never mind.

    A 2 year, $12m contract with a 2nd year player option is a value contract now? Good to know.

    So you’re saying this group of youngsters has no talent? I want to get you on record.

    Or do you have to wait for stats to tell you?

    reub, what I’m saying is that picking up undrafted players is the equivalent of buying penny stocks. It’s fine. It’s better than making no investments at all when you factor in the fact that in the NBA, your money comes back every year.

    It has nothing to do with stats. It has to do with odds. Everybody wants talented players and wants to win as many games as they can as quickly as they can. It’s the same in basketball as it is in real life, where every person would rather have $100 now than $100 2 years from now. Investing in the future is the only way you reliably get better.

    What has Phil Jackson invested in the Knicks’ future? What locked in vet talent has he given up to bring in potential talent? What cap space has he utilized to bring in potential talent? All he’s done is brought in minimum salary players that nobody thought worthy of spending a draft pick on and added a few second round picks (while trading away nearly as many) while using his cap space and trade pieces to bring in veterans.

    It’s about having a process. You can talk about how I’m negative or other people are negative. How do teams improve? I challenge again one person to name a single team that went from three straight non playoff seasons to relevance through the process that Phil has followed. Jackson inherited a team with draft pick debt, it’s true, but he also inherited a team with a lot of cap space and a superstar and a few other trade assets. Of all those assets, which ones has he used to bring in investment type pieces such as picks or young players?

    Offensive sets look way better. Billy is gonna have trouble defending as expected. Melo doesn’t quite look like he’s up for team wind sprint.

    Willy has talent, but he needs to get experience in order to harness it. I like him. He’s intriguing.

    How is Vujacic still in the league? Is this some sort of Dorian Grey situation? Does he have dirt on Silver?

    Holiday hasn’t made shots but his defense and rebounding is why he’s got to make this team. Especially since we are so thin and the 2guard.

    Holiday is like Knick Ariza. Which means we’ll flip him somewhere just in time for him to learn to shoot.

    KP disappears way too much when he plays with the bench. And the bench guys all stop passing the ball to one another.

    like any good OL Gortat kept his hands inside and most officials let holds like that slide. Oh wait this isn’t monday night football.

    did Melo just give up the ball to the pg on what he thought was the last possession of the half?

    Billy looks great

    He’s supertalented. I think he’ll be a terrific guy to pair up with KP in the future when he gets stronger and savvier on the defensive end.

    I felt like I was alone in thinking Lance wasn’t that good last season. He just looked better in comparison to our whack ass bench. But there’s no reason for him to be the primary scorer on our bench. He hasn’t earned that IMO.

    I felt like I was alone in thinking Lance wasn’t that good last season. He just looked better in comparison to our whack ass bench. But there’s no reason for him to be the primary scorer on our bench. He hasn’t earned that IMO.

    He was his typical self (which is to say he didn’t much of anything), except he hit a shit ton of threes. I don’t think you can ignore the value of those threes. If that three-point shooting was a fluke, then yes, he’s not a good player. But it’s way too early to know that. He shot poorly last preseason, as well. The preseason is pretty meaningless for vets.

    I’m sure this is me being wildly racist, but Ron Baker seems like he’s a smart player.

    Did I just read Plumlee compared to Olajuwon!?

    The sun even shines a dead dog’s ass once and awhile.

    Actually, Jennings is crazy in a bad way. All that talent. Just harness it a bit and he could be a star.

    Hahahahaha the chant was dope..but Ware probably won’t make the roster..u shouldn’t be excited about getting in his head. On the flipside, those are the kind of plays that ignite players like Jennings- which is awesome because when he gets going, he’s kinda nice

    Deliberately irritates Ware, drawing a double tech. Proceeds to play ISO ball in an attempt to troll Ware, continually crossing up Ware before taking a terrible, contested 3, subsequently buries it

    Hilarious and troubling and awesome all at once

    Jennings is the type of player Knicks fans irrationally love to death. He will crazy shit and everyone in the Garden will cheer it no matter how stupid or counterproductive.

    Seriously though, isn’t it time our Knicks learn how to defend Bradley Beal? That guy always seems To cook us…

    Damnit. R.I.P. Anthony Mason. Get sad every time they mention him. I’m starting to like Jennings. Always wanted to play for the Knicks and an actual playmaker.

    My big prediction for the week:
    If Baker practices like he plays and continues to play smart, competent defense- Holiday will be released by the weekend unless Phil can squeeze out a 2nd rounder for him

    I’m pulling for Baker, but I’ll be shocked if Holiday is released to make room for him.

    I like Holiday more than Sasha.

    Kuz has a lot of talent and made some nice plays in the last game. He might be nursing an injury. There’s no way that he’s behind some of our bench guys.

    baker has consistently made good decisions with the ball…. probably played the best off the bench in the 3 games besides wily…

    chasson has looked horrible….

    Baker appears to do a little bit of everything fairly well, but I’m guessing he has to shoot well to stick.

    Plumlee now taking over the game!?

    Hahahahahahaha
    KP defending the inbounds pass = the greatest cheat code since up up down down left right left right B A

    not sure what coach Hornacek told them in the locker room after that, but I’m guessing it involved grabbing some Pussy!

    You gotta think that Plumlee has played well enough to make Amundson expendable (as if he wasn’t already) so hopefully that opens a spot for N’Dour or Baker.

    An enjoyable game. They are playing tough. I like what Jennings said in his feature interview, “Me and Noah, we’re going to be like Anthony Mason (RIP) and John Starks. We’re going to be the ones starting crap.” I just hope they can keep it from costing.

    Hernangomez has game. His defense needs to improve technically, but he provides real offense, is active all around and wow, what a passer!

    Ron Baker also impresses me, maybe more than Chasson Randle. Hardnosed and tough.

    DNPs for Kuz, Lou and Tokoto. Ominous signs?

    Noah will play Saturday. First time in months.

    “When the other guys shoot 3-21 from 3 you’ll win more than you lose.”

    There it is.

    Or, alternatively, the Knicks shot 21-53 on two point shots and beat a healthy Wizards team without Noah!

    You gotta think that Plumlee has played well enough to make Amundson expendable (as if he wasn’t already) so hopefully that opens a spot for N’Dour or Baker.

    Ndour already has a guaranteed contract. The guys on the outside looking in right now are Baker and Randle. They really have to cut Lou. He’ll get his full salary now. Just eat it.

    Lance could be the first guy to get a five second call trying to go behind the back

    I lol’d at this hard….

    Good thread people, I feel like the board is really starting to gel….

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