Knicks Morning News (2016.01.07)

  • [New York Post] Robin Lopez improving in one area the Knicks need him most (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 02:46:56 -0500)

    MIAMI — Robin Lopez and Carmelo Anthony posted the same shooting ledger Wednesday — 9-of-12. That may never happen again. But Lopez, known more for his defense, is slowly improving his post play and he had his best night as a Knick in their 98-90 victory over the Heat. Lopez scored 19 points, had two…

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks getting hot, beat Heat for third straight win (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 02:39:32 GMT)

    The Knicks could’ve taken a schedule loss. It would’ve been understandable with back-to-back road games against two of the best in the East.

  • [New York Times] Clerical Error Catches Portland Off-Guard (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 07:48:27 GMT)

    The Portland Trail Blazers committed a clerical error with their roster that prohibited guard C.J. McCollum from playing against the Los Angeles Clippers on Wednesday.

  • [New York Times] Clippers Keep Cruising Without Griffin (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 07:06:27 GMT)

    Blake Griffin is coming back sometime soon from his quad injury, but until he does, his team mates are making out just fine.

  • [New York Times] McCollum Inactive by Mistake on Pregame Roster, Misses Game (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 06:54:32 GMT)

    Guard CJ McCollum was inadvertently left off the Trail Blazers’ active roster that was turned in before Wednesday night’s game against the Los Angeles Clippers, making Portland’s second leading scorer ineligible to play.

  • [New York Times] Paul Leads Clippers to 109-98 Win Over Trail Blazers (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 05:39:58 GMT)

    Chris Paul had 21 points and 19 assists to lead the Los Angeles Clippers to a 109-98 victory Wednesday night over the Portland Trail Blazers, who were without guard CJ McCollum because of a “clerical error.”

  • [New York Times] Duncan Scores 18, Spurs Rout Jazz to Move to 21-0 at Home (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 05:37:09 GMT)

    The San Antonio Spurs are winning easily, resting their stars and giving big minutes to role players.

  • [New York Times] Kevin Durant Returns, Leads Thunder Past Grizzlies 112-94 (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 05:27:51 GMT)

    Kevin Durant had 26 points and a season-high 17 rebounds after missing the previous game with a sprained right big toe, and the Oklahoma City Thunder beat the Memphis Grizzlies 112-94 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Resting 4 Starters, Mavs Beat Pelicans 100-91 (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 04:54:56 GMT)

    Dallas coach Rick Carlisle decided he needed to give four starters the night off on the heels of a double-overtime victory a night earlier.

  • [New York Times] Suns Hit Season-High 19 3s in 11-102 Win Over Hornets (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 04:52:06 GMT)

    Mirza Teletovic made five of the Suns’ season-high 19 3-pointers as Phoenix ended a nine-game skid with a 111-102 win over the Charlotte Hornets on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] James, Irving Lead Cavaliers to 5th Straight Victory (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 04:30:57 GMT)

    While the Washington Wizards try to promote John Wall’s case for the NBA All-Star Game, Kyrie Irving put on a show to illustrate why the Cleveland Cavaliers think he should get the nod.

  • [New York Times] Knicks End Streak of 8 Straight Losses to Heat, 98-90 (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 04:10:22 GMT)

    The New York Knicks have already surpassed their win total for all of last season, and the latest victory was especially sweet.

  • [New York Times] Gallinari, Nuggets Snap 6-Game Skid With Win Over Wolves (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 03:54:50 GMT)

    Danilo Gallinari had 20 points, seven rebounds and four assists to help the Denver Nuggets snap a six-game losing streak with a 78-74 victory over the Minnesota Timberwolves on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Nets’ Home Skid Reaches Eight With Loss to Raptors (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 03:45:05 GMT)

    Jonas Valanciunas had 22 points and 11 rebounds for Toronto, which bounced back from consecutive losses. The Nets have not won at Barclays Center since Dec. 10.

  • [New York Times] Reggie Jackson’s 24 Points Lead Pistons Past Celtics, 99-94 (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 03:37:05 GMT)

    Reggie Jackson scored nine of his 24 points in the final quarter, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope finished with 20 and the Detroit Pistons rallied for a 99-94 win over the Boston Celtics on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] George, Ellis Lead Pacers to 95-86 Win Over Magic (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 03:04:40 GMT)

    Paul George had 20 points and Monta Ellis scored nine of his 19 in the fourth quarter Wednesday night, leading the Indiana Pacers to a 95-86 victory over the Orlando Magic.

  • [New York Times] Knicks 98, Heat 90: More Resolute in New Year, Knicks Finally Solve Heat (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 03:04:33 GMT)

    Robin Lopez scored a season-high 19 points, and Carmelo Anthony had a team-high 25 as the Knicks won their third straight, beating a team that had pounded them in November.

  • [New York Times] Raptors Hand Nets 8th Straight Home Loss, 91-74 (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 02:55:11 GMT)

    Jonas Valanciunas had 22 points and 11 rebounds, and the Toronto Raptors handed the Brooklyn Nets their eighth straight home loss, 91-74 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] LeBron James’ Marketing Group Cuts Ties With Johnny Manziel (Thu, 07 Jan 2016 02:22:26 GMT)

    LeBron James has dropped Johnny Manziel as a business client.

  • 118 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2016.01.07)”

    Since I went on my cruise the Knicks have turned into the Warriors? I haven’t seen any of it and I’m really pissed!

    Since I went on my cruise the Knicks have turned into the Warriors? I haven’t seen any of it and I’m really pissed!

    I think you should get back on the boat, just in case that is why the Knicks started winning =)

    Since I went on my cruise the Knicks have turned into the Warriors? I haven’t seen any of it and I’m really pissed!

    Yeah. What’s the matter with you coming back? Are you trying to kill the juju?

    Since the start of ’16, NYK has looked like an entirely different team. Small sample size, but Fish has found a way to mask our biggest deficiency(outside shooting), and against good teams at that! I do wonder if the team would be interested in a reunion with Novak since we need more shooting. He’s in the last year of his deal, and is behind 3-5 frontcourt players in OKC. Normally, that would indicate how terrible a player is, but the guys in front of him are just too good for a one dimensional sniper to surpass- especially when you have shooters like Durant-Morrow-Ibaka(to a lesser extent). 2 of those 3 get the ball a lot so OKC may not need a sniper as bad. Plus, Novak plays both forward spots- and playing him wouldn’t terribly effect the frontcourt rotation on the Knicks. At least not as much as adding a backcourt player who can shoot would effect the guard rotation. What do you guys think?

    I salivate at the offensive options (Triangle AND PNR) of Grant/Galloway/Novak/Porzingis/RoLo.

    Then I remember how much of a minus Novak was defensively. Still… worth a shot… but not while losing assets in the deal.

    Actually, fuck it. Get him for Seraphin or Melo or something. A discount double check is worth it.

    I’ve seen a lot of references to KP getting posterized twice last night — by Bosh and Whiteside. Does it count as getting posterized if you punch a guy in the face when he dunks on you? If not, then the Whiteside dunk doesn’t count. Watch the replay — he really got smacked in the face on that one.

    “Novak plays both forward spots- and playing him wouldn’t terribly effect the frontcourt rotation on the Knicks”
    Whose minutes would he take — Melo, KP or Williams? I wouldn’t be in favor of Novak playing one second over any of those three. Thomas? Is giving up his defense worth it? Novak is pretty much of the most minus of a defender as there is in the league.

    Whose minutes would he take — Melo, KP or Williams? I wouldn’t be in favor of Novak playing one second over any of those three. Thomas? Is giving up his defense worth it? Novak is pretty much of the most minus of a defender as there is in the league.

    My thinking on Novak is this:
    I won’t ever suggest that he gets minutes over any of those 3 at all. But in spurts, he’s fine out there with either of the 3 since OQ and Seraphin aren’t getting minutes. He can definitely get minutes over Seraphin, since we would need his shooting over Seraphin’s size with the way Lopez and KP are playing- especially if OQ gets a few minutes. And I’m also not suggesting that Novak would get big minutes. But his presence opens up the floor and allows more space for Williams/Galloway/Grant drives and for Melo to operate. It also affords Afflalo and KP extra space to take advantage of what they bring. In spurts. That’s pretty much all he’s worth at this point, but it’s something we need. Unless Phil can parlay Afflalo into a better SG option somehow

    I would imagine behind all three.

    And yeah, I have a lot of respect for “posterized” players who don’t sit back and watch. The whole terminology is really stupid.

    I loved Novak while he was here, and I maintain he wasn’t as terrible on defense as many assumed, but that was in his prime and he was still one of the least athletic perimeter players in the NBA. It’s possible his athleticism has dipped below the threshold needed to play in the league. We certainly could use some more shooting, but I’d be inclined to give Jimmer a shot before trying to get Novak back.

    I’m fine with losing to the Spurs, whether in a blowout or not, as long as we win the next 3 against the Bucks, Celtics and Nets. 6 out of 7, 21-20 record at the halfway mark, sign me up!

    Please don’t wake me up. I’m having a good dream.

    The one where Cole Aldrich flies in through your window?

    The one where Cole Aldrich flies in through your window?

    Oh, you guys thought I was talking about current or former Knicks?

    I was talking about Halle Berri.

    Melo’s efficiency of late has been through the motherfucking roof.

    And KP’s interior defense has been the anchor which our entire defense is built upon.

    We have a winning formula here if everyone plays their part and knows their role.

    Melo’s efficiency of late has been through the motherfucking roof.

    Last 5 games: 53.6 TS%

    Last 10 games: 54.8 TS%

    55% is quite good, but it’s not near the roof.

    And KP’s interior defense has been the anchor which our entire defense is built upon.

    Gotta give some credit to Lopez here as well…at least the last few games.

    Owen, My Favorite Gus moment was Knicks Vs Nuggets Crawford throws the ball away and steals it right back to hit the game winning 3.

    I think Gus lost a year on his life with that call.

    I figured we would start to see what kind of team we had some 30+ games into the season, and I hope this stretch is indicative of a crew that has finally taken shape.
    The rotation is down to nine guys, basically.
    We have a strong defensive presence, with Lopez and KP an imposing duo.
    Melo has more spring in his step because his 30+ minutes are far less grueling now that the ball flows freely in this offense.
    Truly, Melo is looking like a complete player. His defense, passing and rebounding have been terrific and his shot selection, for the most part, is good. He is making his teammates better, and when he is needed, he can take over few a bit.
    I think the idea of finding easier shots for KP specifically is an anathema to the Knicks offense. The ball will find him when he’s making the cuts. What I see from him is a propensity to hang around the 3-pt line too often as the ball is moving. He’s 7’3 and he needs to be cutting and around the paint. His three point shooting is important and helpful, but his size is too valuable to be out there as plays evolve. I think this is why his rebounds are down a well.
    Calderon also is playing very good basketball: pesky on defense; play making and deadly shooting on offense. Sure, he’s got weaknesses, but his influence is notable on the floor.
    The triangle is working.
    And I can’t see a fault in Phil’s moves: KP goes without saying; Lance Thomas has been excellent; Galloway has been a solid back up; Lopez is showing his worth; and even DWill is making important contributions. His explosiveness in the paint really stands out.
    Very encouraging.

    And I can’t see a fault in Phil’s moves:

    To be fair, Phil also signed Sasha and Seraphin, and even O’Quinn may not turn out to be the great bargain we assumed at first. (Though it’s still early.) And team contracts are structured in such a way that all of Williams, Afflalo, Galloway, and Lance will either be getting raises next year or will need to be replaced. Given how relatively well DW and AA are playing, they’re both likely to opt out, which would give us room for a max player contract. Question is whether anyone worth a max contract would come to the Knicks next year. If not, can we patch together another collection of role players, and roll the dice again for the summer of 2017?

    Owen,

    You mentioned last night that you thought Gallinari was having a better season (I think) than Melo. While I think Gallo is playing very well, he clearly is not the focal point that Melo is, and Melo has a clear advantage in FG%. Defensive stats are comparable. Melo turns the ball over more than twice as much as Gallo/36. Nonetheless, their stats are comparable, although I am looking at fairly simple metrics, and I would give the advantage to Melo. But also, Melo earns literally twice a much as Gallo:

    TS%
    Gallinari .570
    Melo .529

    eFG%
    Gallo .467
    Melo .470

    FG%
    Gallo .403
    Melo .431

    PER
    Gallo 19.2
    Melo 20.7

    USG%
    Gallo 21.6
    Melo 30

    FT%
    Gallo .869 (7.4/36)
    Melo .833 (6.1/36)

    3pt%
    Gallo .377 (4.5/36)
    Melo .327 (4.5/36)

    Assists/36
    Gallo 2.9
    Melo 3.9

    Rebounds/36
    Gallo 6.2
    Melo 7.8

    Points/36
    Gallo 18.8
    Melo 22.6

    If not, can we patch together another collection of role players, and roll the dice again for the summer of 2017?

    Yeah, the only fault with Phil’s moves is he set himself up to have to do it again next year in a market where it will be much more difficult to find value. We had a wonderful opportunity last summer, being one of only a few teams with cap space in a year where every contract you sign was likely to be good value in future years when the cap goes up (assuming the player panned out). Instead of using that to set up us up for 2-3 years, we only got ourselves good value for one. So from a one year perspective: A+. Long term: we’ll have to wait and see.

    But it’s encouraging.

    Given how relatively well DW and AA are playing, they’re both likely to opt out, which would give us room for a max player contract.

    You know, this may apply to DWill, but I don’t think Afflalo will opt out. I think he has wanted to be here and he likes this system a lot. My bet is Afflalo stays. DWill also might stay, simply because this is the first time he is in a system that he plays well in. He has underwhelmed everywhere, but in NY, and even here while a rotation player, he’s still not killing it. I think as he matures, here, he can be a far better player. For that reason, he may stay.
    I get a sense from this crew that these guys aren’t mercenaries. I don’t have rose colored glass on, tho. I realize these guys are looking to get paid. But DWill may need the Knicks more than the Knicks need him, given his career to date. That cannot be undervalued.

    I have no special insight, but my hunch is that both players have strong reasons for staying. But you could be right. Careers are short and getting paid is important, and I’m sure their agents are spelling that out to them.

    Frank O (and anyone who thinks either player will not opt out):

    They are both opting out unless they get injured and have to sit next year out. That’s happening, 1000%. Even if they want to stay, they are opting out and getting raises. They both signed contracts at low points in their value in a tightly capped league. If they have decent years and the cap jumps, they are virtually guaranteed raises. If they don’t opt out they need to fire their agents.

    It’s as close to an absolute certainty as anything you can predict. They may both be back, but they will not be back on their one-year player options.

    We had a wonderful opportunity last summer, being one of only a few teams with cap space in a year where every contract you sign was guaranteed to be good value in future years when the cap goes up.

    I’m not sure the opportunity was as there as some thought. This was a horrid team. 17 wins. Not a lot of guys willing to come to a total reclamation project. There were too many other places that had pieces.
    The Knicks basically had a gimpy Melo and about 3 other questionable pieces.
    If Afflalo and DWill opt out, this is a much more attractive team now, with Melo still in his prime and KP and Gallo and some other nice young players.

    But we saw how players viewed the Knicks as a destination. With the benefit of hindsight, I think Phil did well with what he had to work.

    Like Reub I am also on a cruise this week. I feel the same way. I hope the Knicks save some good stuff for when we get back

    It’s as close to an absolute certainty as anything you can predict.

    I may be guilty of wishful thinking. 🙂 I’m willing to consider that.

    If you’re Arron, and you can stay with the Knicks for 8 million, or go somewhere else for say 2 years, 20 million, what are you going to do? Or even if you think you can get two years, 16 million. I know what I would do.

    A point on Melo:

    He’s been getting praised (rightly) or trusting his teammates a lot this year. And it’s been pointed out that he’s done this before when he’s had good teammates, like in 2012-13 and on certain Denver teams.

    But I actually don’t think he’s getting enough praise for this. In 2012-13 he had teammates who had won championships and others who were established NBA players. It’s not hard to trust Jason Kidd and Tyson Chandler, for instance. Or even JR when he’s having his best year.

    What he’s doing now is a lot more impressive. He’s getting 100% behind a rookie, and going all in with Derrick Williams, Lance Thomas, Robin Lopez, etc. Most of this team doesn’t have the track record to demand his trust, but he’s given it to them anyway. I’m very impressed.

    I wonder how Greg Monroe is feeling right now about snubbing the Knicks for the “up and coming” Milwaukee Bucks? While guys like Windhorst were almost giddy that free agents snubbed their noses at teams like NY and the Lakers, I think it’s turned out pretty well for us.

    I’d rather have RoLo than Monroe for this roster, and on a cheaper contract as well.

    I’m not sure the opportunity was as there as some thought. This was a horrid team. 17 wins. Not a lot of guys willing to come to a total reclamation project. There were too many other places that had pieces.

    This is true, and I may have accidentally overstated the opportunity. Obviously they were rebuked by Monroe and others. I just meant that the players they did sign, they had an opportunity to get deals that would have benefited us if the signings panned out.

    I wonder how Greg Monroe is feeling right now about snubbing the Knicks for the “up and coming” Milwaukee Bucks? While guys like Windhorst were almost giddy that free agents snubbed their noses at teams like NY and the Lakers, I think it’s turned out pretty well for us.

    I’d rather have RoLo than Monroe for this roster, and on a cheaper contract as well.

    I think Monroe would do it over again if he could and I think we’d be better off with him, too. That’s one that didn’t work out for either party, IMHO.

    EDIT: Actually I’m not 100%. I do love the defensive presence we have when ROLO and KP are together.

    But I actually don’t think he’s getting enough praise for this.

    whether he gets credit enough or not are shades of grey, but your underlying point is well taken.
    I would venture to say as a Knicks player, this may be the most complete version of Melo than I have ever seen. He is playing within a system. He is very productive. He is making players better. And – and I can’t put too fine a point on this – his rate of play is physically sustainable for him.
    While his usage is comparable to his career totals, he is not getting beat up. He is not trying to do more than he should. This bodes well for the Knicks on the back-end of his contract when we can expect to see some physical decline. His big 6’8 frame could very well be close to what it is now if he continues to let other players do more.
    Also, I think the way the Knicks play gives them more energy on defense and more energy on the back end of a back-to-back like last night.

    All in all, a fresher Melo is a better Melo.

    There’s no single reason why we’ve been playing well recently, but I’d say the majority of the credit should go to Lopez not playing terribly anymore. It was easy to forget that he was signed essentially to be our second best player overall when he was getting benched for Seraphin (which should never have been happening, regardless of RoLo’s play). Lopez playing like we anticipated he would could be enough to keep us in the .500 range.

    The Bucks’ defense has completely cratered– they were 4th in the league last year in defensive rating and this year they’re dead last. The main difference in personnel is that they subtracted Zaza Pachulia and added Greg Monroe. Most of the other guys are more or less the same. I’m not saying it’s all Monroe’s fault, but that signing has not worked out for them at all so far.

    Bucks top 7 minutes played 15-16
    Middleton
    Freak
    Monroe
    MCW
    Jabari
    OJ Mayo
    Bayless

    Top 7 14-15
    Freak
    Middleton
    Zaza
    Bayless
    Dudley
    OJ
    Knight

    So that’s a pretty different team.

    4 of the 7 are the same though, and 7 of the top 11 are the same. You’re right, it is a somewhat different roster, but the most significant changes are the subtractions of Zaza and Dudley, with Monroe and Jabari Parker getting their minutes respectively. And it has been disastrous. Their defense has completely collapsed.

    I know the cap is going up this year but do we really think another team is going to offer AA 15 or 20 million a year? Or that DWill is going to get that kind of money too?

    I fully expect some huge contracts to be given out this summer. But I expect it to be Conley, Durant, Lebron, Beal and then there will be some big overpays for some other dudes like Batum. But after that initial wave of signings for the top 5 or 10 guys are teams really gonna shell out 4 or 5 year deals for average players to get 15 to 20 million a year? I’m skeptical that happens.

    I guess I feel like if DWill and AA opt out and we can resign them for longer deals with their Bird Right’s raises then that should be enough to keep them here if they enjoy being here and playing in this system for this team with these players. I know CREAM is in effect but staying in a good situation with a longer term deal and a raise should count for something, right?

    I would love it if Melo morphed into a Paul Pierce type player as he grew older.

    That all around game would be there.

    No one is saying AA is going to get a 15-20mm offer. But I’m confident he can beat one year, 8 million. And I’m confident DWill can top one year, 5 million. More importantly, so will their agents.

    The Spurs are ridiculous, implacable, have no weaknesses, eat strong teams for breakfast, etc.. So this is a possible game plan for Friday.
    A) Invoke the aid of Ogoun: Play Olatunji’s “Shango” at top volume during warm ups. Pour out a generous glass of Ron Millonario XO rum and then leave it and the bottle on the scorekeeper’s table for him along with a couple of nice cohibas.
    B) Have whoever is assigned to Green double Leonard at every opportunity. Green’s shot is MIA this year. Everyone else is shooting somewhere between very and insanely well. Kawhi is pretty unstoppable but doubling him all night might help.
    C) Hope the offerings are well received rendering the Knicks’ D impenetrable and enabling at least 2 Knicks to go off for career nights in the face of tough coverage.
    That could do it.

    D-Will is on a real tear right now. For a minute there he had all but fallen out of the rotation, but since getting put back in the rotation for a regular 15-20 minutes per game in late November he has been crushing it– .588 TS% on 23.0 usage with only 9 turnovers in 336 minutes.

    “D-Will is on a real tear right now.”
    I don’t think that I realized how young he is — only 24. Is it possible that he is just now figuring out how to best use his talent in the NBA?
    On another note, I don’t want the Knicks to sign or trade for anyone right now, unless he is a clear upgrade over someone currently getting playing time. I think that most of us feel like the Knicks are much better off with a 9-1/2 man rotation (i.e., O’Quinn getting maybe 10 minutes a night unless Lopez or KP is in foul trouble) than with an 11-12 man rotation. If the Knicks acquire Novak or sign someone like Freddette or Trice or some other D-Leaguer, I don’t want Fisher to feel like he has figure out a way to get them in games.

    Their defense has completely collapsed.

    This is true, and Detroit’s has gotten better. But the Bucks are actually giving up more points this season with Monroe on the bench then they are with him on the court, for whatever that’s worth. I’m sure he’s making their defense worse, but I’m not sure how to go about determining how much he’s to blame.

    Melo within 6000 votes of Drummond for the third East All Star front court spot. Closing in… The Latvian surge for Porzingis hasn’t happened yet.

    Agree i’d do Jimmr over Novak.
    I’m too happy right now to give a shit what D Will or AA will do next year. Let them opt out. If the amount they want is affordable, fine. I could see AA opting out on $8M and signing for $10M with another player option. Anything more and you risk paying too much.

    I would like to see a veteran PG added, if they are in their walk year. Andre Miller is rotting in Minn, but I don’t see a salary match. There must be someone out there who would be a good fit for Seraphin. What the hell are we going to do if Calderon gets hurt?

    @Hubert,

    No offense, but even with hindsight, with the entire 30 something game season, I think you’re wrong.
    1. Over the summer, I can honestly say most fans were 30-70 on DWill. He’s a bust. He’s not this. He does this badly. We overpaid for him. We should have no player option. There’s a few bad assumptions here. We can’t be sure of DWills offers. Maybe he wouldn’t sign if he didn’t get that option. Maybe other teams offered more money or length but not the option.

    2. There was enormous talk about Affalo’s lackluster offensive production last year. Let’s not forget how poorly he has played in many games this year. There were further talks about him losing a defensive step and stats backed it up.

    3. Locking in ‘long term’ or ‘evaluating long term’ based on 30 games is really bad. I’d rather he work every summer until he finds the right mix than to second guess terms of contracts. It also assumes these players won’t be back. Or it assumes the players will get a raise. It even assumes their production won’t drop or increase in the next 50 games.

    I thought Williams at 5 Mil may have been an overpay. I questioned whether Afflalo would regain his “Magic”. Afflalo has been better, but if you take his overall stats, he may be worth $8M next year as well, and maybe an overpay this year.
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/afflaar01.html

    Take a look. He’s been pretty underwhelming despite a few amazing games. Knicks overall:
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2016.html

    I’d rather not be locked in long term. There’s few guarantees with the players on this roster until they show a bit more consistency. If we based Galloway’s payraise next year based on his first 10 games, he’d be making 10-15x.

    As an aside. Lance Thomas has a 59% TS. He was at 47% last year. I can’t recall the last time I’ve seen something like this.

    I was talking about Halle Berri.

    I know Halle Berry but who is this Halle Berri that you speak of?

    Any relation?

    I’m getting back on the boat soon so the Knicks should be okay for a while. San Antonio won’t have a chance.

    Agree that AA and DWill are opting out.

    I think DWill is probably either gone or will be too expensive. He’s made an astronomical amount of $ for a normal person ($20MM) but given that he carried at least 5% of the post-tax amount around in a Louis Vuitton bag as functionally useless jewelry, my guess is that there haven’t been too much in terms of savings.

    Afflalo is tough to figure. He’s made $36MM in his career but you don’t get the feeling from him that he’s all about $. We would have non-bird rights on him which would be what, $9.6MM. If he opts out and signs for another 1+1 contract (or even 2+1 or 3+1), perhaps he would be ok with that. He can get 4.5% raises with NB exception so it would essentially be a 2 year $20MM guaranteed (or 3 year 30.5MM deal) where the last year is a player option again.

    I’ve actually been very impressed with Afflalo. His defensive numbers look bad but visually speaking he doesn’t seem like a bad defender.

    He’ll be 31 this year, and has never really been on a good team (except with Melo in Denver). He’s said multiple times that he wanted to come here and that this system fits him. I don’t think it’s outrageous that he would come back at a reasonable rate.

    Owen,

    You mentioned last night that you thought Gallinari was having a better season (I think) than Melo.

    I did. I do.

    Truthfully, I haven’t watched Gallo’s defense. He was a solid (though not fantastic) defender as a Knick and he may have fallen off in that regard. So if that has slipped dramatically then that’s something. But, generally speaking, I would trade Gallo for Melo and expect the team to improve.

    When the trade happened I was on record saying that I thought Melo and Gallo were pretty much on equal terms as players. The numbers, both statistical and +/-, were actually fairly even at the time. And they look the same way right now except for the fact that Gallo is 4 years younger (with a wee bit of an injury track record.)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=gallida01&y2=2016&p2=anthoca01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

    I think everyone has heard enough from me on Melo. But since he had an outstanding game last night, let me just say again why I don’t think he is, or ever can be a great player.

    He is average or below on the defensive end. On offense, he doesn’t generate easy transition pts. He doesn’t get past people on the perimeter anymore. He isn’t dominant down low. And, crucially, he isn’t a great three point shooter. He’s a guy who converts mid-range shots at a decent rate and does good work at the free throw line. Which means he will never generate a high ts% in today’s NBA. And a guy who takes a lot of shots and isn’t efficient has pretty limited value.

    He has some value, sure. He uses a lot of possessions with a low turnover rate. But this guy does not have the statistical profile of the cornerstone of an elite NBA team and really never has. And that’s not changing 32-35.

    Ruru will chime in with his standard defense.

    All I can say is, I was promised a 58% ts% from Melo. Still hasn’t happened.

    All three of the Knicks’ free agent signings got off to horrendous starts this year, and all are playing much better recently. Look at where Afflalo, Lopez and Williams were sitting in terms of TS% on November 28, the day before the Rockets game:

    TS% on November 28:
    Afflalo .471
    Lopez .487
    Williams .503

    TS% since:
    Afflalo .592
    Lopez .598
    Williams .585

    The Knicks’ offense has been trending upward, and those three guys are a huge reason why. NYK currently has a league average offensive rating, and it’s not out of the question to think they might be a top 10 offense by the time the season ends.

    Melo within 6000 votes of Drummond for the third East All Star front court spot. Closing in… The Latvian surge for Porzingis hasn’t happened yet.

    It’s honestly a bit surprising that Porzingis hasn’t gotten more support.

    Well, Latvia is definitely more of a hockey country, so maybe the mobilization that happened with the NHL All-Star vote wasn’t going to be repeated here no matter what.

    I did see Melo give an interview where he said he’d like to see Porzingis on the regular All-Star team this year, and not just in Toronto for the rookie/sophomore game.

    “All three of the Knicks’ free agent signings got off to horrendous starts this year, and all are playing much better recently.”

    Its almost as if new players on a new team take time to become comfortable with each other and learn a new offensive system. Which is weird because I thought you could just find players via a statistical formula of PER and WP, put them on a basketball court together and automatically have a good team.

    @54,

    2014-2015
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2015&p1=anthoca01&y2=2015&p2=gallida01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

    2013-2014 – Gallinari did not play.

    2012-2013
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2013&p1=anthoca01&y2=2013&p2=gallida01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=
    Almost identical TS%, your biggest argument.

    You can argue Melo’s not a superstar but he’s been a better player, and has played nearly a seasons more worth of games since the trade.

    The numbers, both statistical and +/-, were actually fairly even at the time. And they look the same way right now except for the fact that Gallo is 4 years younger (with a wee bit of an injury track record.)

    Do you think Gallo could have 2 seasons like Melo did from 2012-2014?

    and melo has shot 37% from three since he was a Knick. Only the last two seasons have there been issues

    Well, Latvia is definitely more of a hockey country, so maybe the mobilization that happened with the NHL All-Star vote wasn’t going to be repeated here no matter what.

    I think there are a ton more NBA fans worldwide also — the whole basketball-loving population of Latvia is probably a rounding error for the NBA, whereas there are only about 12 hockey fans in the united states.

    maybe 13.

    The knock on Melo has always been that his cap # doesn’t match his efficiency and that his # will keep us from giving $ to other players who could either be worth the max or could give us the efficiency with less of a cap #.

    I think the problem with the 2010 rebuild was Amar’e. He became an underwater asset. Ditto Bargs. There have been many in recent history. Melo is a very effective player when he moves the basketball and with the cap going up and no other big anchors on the roster his # doesn’t hurt as badly as, say, Eddy Curry’s did. We’ve also paid the tab on him in terms of players and picks given. The nightmare is over. This guy is only going to help going forward.

    @adrenaline98 I see your points and this discussion doesn’t need to happen again. I’m not trying to kill Phil for the deals today. They’ve both panned out and we’re playing well.

    All I’m saying is:

    – they are definitely not opting in at this rate
    – Phil is going to have to find that value again
    – it was probably easier to find value (and lock it in) last year than it will be this summer

    Latvia’s not exactly China, guys. With a total population of just 1,900,000, if every household with an Internet connection voted for KP it might get him past Marcin Gortat

    Since the trade:

    WS/48
    Melo: .157
    Gallo: .146

    WS
    Melo: 53.5
    Gallo: 19.5

    PER (by season)
    Melo: 21.82, 21.15, 24.83, 24.5, 21.58, 20.79
    Gallo: 15.71, 16.58, 16.73, 14.74, 16.81, 19.22

    BPM
    Melo: 2.6
    Gallo: 1.8

    VORP
    Melo: 14.3
    Gallo: 6.3

    WP
    Melo: 25.1
    Gallo: 21.6

    I loved Gallo when he was here and hated to see him traded but to me he hasnt improved much at all as a player. For his career he averages 4.6 reb/g and 1.9 ast/g and less than a steal and block per game. Remember he is about 6’10 too. He has always been an efficient scorer but thats all he really has going for him.

    Now dont get me wrong, his efficiency on offense is great and he is a very good player because of it but not providing much else and being extremely injury prone are big issues to me.

    You can’t really “yadda yadda yadda” Gallinari’s injuries. He missed an average of like 40 games a season in his first four years in Denver.

    Owen also said Melo would never approach .200 WS/48… Oops.

    I guess .184 is “approaching” .200 in a technical sense, but that’s a pretty tepid burn you got going there.

    Gallo is a very good player, and on his contract, I can absolutely see Owen’s argument that he’d prefer him over Melo moving forward.

    However, it defied convention to believe that Melo would actually IMPROVE as he aged, as I did prior to the season, as I did immediately after the trade, but that is in fact what’s happened.

    What compels Owen to bring this argument up again, as he has every year when Melo’s numbers are low, is beyond me. But that’s KB for ya.

    Gallo and Melo have not been “the same players” since the trade. Melo has vastly outproduced Gallo by most any statistical measure.

    I can see how this has confused someone like Owen, who has repeatedly has said something to the effect of Melo basically being “Joe Johnson.”

    If Melo scored at a greater than 58% ts% you wouldn’t hear peep from me. That was my promise to Ruru.

    If you want to argue why he doesn’t score more efficiently happy to hear any counters. The fact of the matter is that in a league where scorers like Curry and Durant live above 60% Melo’s scoring efficiency isn’t just pedestrian, it’s downright embarrassing.

    To me it looks like he peaked at 23, like a lot of guys do. 56.8 ts% in 07-08. He’ll probably normalize this year at 54.5%. We will pick up someone next year and he can settle comfortably into the third banana role behind Treetops and the new guy. And that’s fine I guess.

    Or we let him pursue his destiny and trade him to somebody who can use his particular set of skills and move on with our lives. He can finally become the latter day Mark Aguirre I have always felt he is.

    Anyway, we have won three games in a row right? Let’s talk about something else….

    I kinda enjoy the back and forth between Ruru and the Melo haters here but yeah Owen bringing this up last night completely unsolicited was stupid.

    You brought it up, Owen. As you always do, and then you backpedal and back-out of the argument… every time.

    There are similarities between Melo and Aguirre, but Melo is statistically superior to him in most every way, on a year-to-year basis and cumulatively.

    I think that building Gallinari likely would not have produced a championship. But I know that building around Anthony didn’t, so all things considered, I’d prefer to have kept Gallinari. He gives you reasonably equivalent production, especially considering the cost difference. Plus, sinxe the Knicks already had him, it wouldn’t have cost the talent and picks to keep him, so there is a chance that Walsh could have built a serious contender if Dolan hadn’t meddled.

    But that’s all I’m the past now. Gallinari is a good player when he is healthy. And Antjony has brought some good moments to NY. I understand that there is a marketing side to roster building, and Anthony is worth more off the court that Gallinari. The Knicks have gotten stronger as a business during his tenure. But even if they had done everything right (i.e. no Bargnani’s trade, not brought back Felton, drafted Jimmy Butler in 2011 instead of Iman Shumpert, etc) I still don’t think they’d have a banner in MSG. They had just stacked the deck against themselves with the staggering cost of the Denver trade.

    Again, Owen and others who share their terminal resentment for Melo and the trade of 6 years ago begin by making comparisons to players reputed to be failures, underachievers or overrated.

    When those comparisons don’t work, they change the argument to by pointing out that Melo isn’t Durant or Lebron, when of course no one can be characterized as saying anything close to that.

    I’m sure we all recognize the fallacies of argument here. I guess I just don’t get why we do this multiple times a year, and then I’m the one ostracized for it.

    Owen bringing this up last night completely unsolicited was stupid.

    Sorry, I didn’t realize this was talked about already yesterday. I didn’t read the whole game thread, so apologies. (But Gallinari had a good game yesterday, and so did Anthony, so I imagine there was some basis for the conversation (and their season stats ARE comparable thus far).

    It wasn’t insane to bring Gallinari up last night because he was having a good game last night, but yeah, it was still pretty weird, Owen. Just an odd time to have that particular argument.

    The Knicks won 54 games (and with a productive Chandler should have at least advanced to the ECF) despite a max contract albatross in Amar’e.

    Re-litigating the Melo trade is so incredibly ridiculous because EVERYONE acknowledges the Knicks got hosed, and that yes, there’s a valid argument that Melo deserves some of that blame for the lopsidedness of the deal.

    But that has nothing to do with what the team has accomplished since then despite being handicapped by Amar’e contract.

    Had the Knicks gotten say, Robin Lopez level production out of that 20 whatever million, who knows how deep they could have gone for a 2-3 year stretch.

    That is more than enough evidence that you can build a a contender with Melo and his max contract, just as Denver did with a 33-year old Chauncey Billups as its second best player.

    that Melo isn’t Durant or Lebron, when of course no one can be characterized as saying anything close to that.

    His paycheck says he is. Money talks, no?

    As for the all star stuff, I don’t think any Knick deserves to go, but it would be fun to see Porzingis make it

    Of course, and implicitly by acknowledging he’s not them, you also acknowledge that he is overpaid relative to them.

    Again, though, that’s not sufficient to understanding his production to pay value.

    I don’t think Melo should have taken the deal he did, and at some level I don’t think he wanted to, and I know there were thoughts of taking bigger discount, but that being said, while he’s clearly overpaid relative to the transcendent 5-6 max players in the NBA, his pay does not preclude his team from building a great, championship….

    I like putting weights on things too. In this case, ‘reasonably equivalent’ while missing almost an entire seasons worth of game isn’t a very good argument.

    When you factor in the cost, you are assuming that the difference in cost would be applied to another player, whose production, in addition to Gallinari, would be higher. While that may be the case, it also may not. There have been plenty of bad contracts in this league at $10M per annum, hasn’t there? Further to this, there is only a certain amount of total minutes in a game, 240.

    The only reasonable argument you can make is within a certain quantity of minutes, Gallinari’s offensive production is comparable to Melo. This also neglects other basketball related activities, such as assists, rebounds, steals, blocks, and defense.

    In terms of actual, real production, Melo has far exceeded Gallinari. Given there is a boundary on games and minutes per season, it is important to factor in that he has been much healthier and has produced more.

    As for the all star stuff, I don’t think any Knick deserves to go, but it would be fun to see Porzingis make it

    I think if Melo can keep at this level of play he is at least worthy of a reserve gig. If anything I have always viewed getting picked as a reserve a pretty big deal, given it’s by people within the league and not by the average punter voting for Kobe. I wouldn’t surprised if Yao and T-Mac are still getting votes from China. You are probably right though, given if you take into account Melo missing all of the season post all star last season. Would be huge to have KP in, but he will at least get a go in the showcase on the Friday.

    this is the longest running least useful argument ever. for pete’s sake people – this was like 5 years ago. I iPhones were still with 3.5″ screens and we were psyched with an EDGE signal. I don’t even think Android existed back then.

    I wish Gallo the best in Denver. Go for it.

    I hope that Melo keeps playing this way. The shooting will come around. As far as I can tell from the tracking data, the main difference between Melo’s scoring this year and last year is that he’s missing more open and wide-open shots. You have to figure that will turn around — especially if he is beginning to show signs of passing out of difficult scoring situations rather than forcing it as he may have in the past. Let’s hope.

    The Knicks won 54 games (and with a productive Chandler should have at least advanced to the ECF) despite a max contract albatross in Amar’e… That is more than enough evidence that you can build a a contender with Melo and his max contract.

    There are a lot of “what ifs” in your argument and there are none in mine, because it is based in what actually happened in real life. The fact is that re Knicks DID have $20,000,000/year tied up in Amar’e. I’m not arguing that Anthony, in a vacuum, could lead a team to a championship. I’m just saying that given what we know, we’d most likely have had a better 5 year window had we just kept Gallinari. (Nothing against the 54 win outlier, but I think you have convinced yourself that the Knicks were closer to a ring that year than they really were.)

    Man, and I felt like an ass for bringing up the player option argument because I thought that had been beaten to death.

    @ruru

    His salary certainly isn’t outrageous and doesn’t preclude his team from winning a title, but when you fill in the details of the Knicks’ present situation, it definitely does. Melo at his salary is basically filler. He neither hurts nor helps, so you could say, “well there’s $25m that I didn’t waste!” In a league where free agents are almost always overpaid and nearly all the valuable players are either on rookie scale contracts or are worth more than the max, that puts Melo’s deal above median value.

    But how are the Knicks going to get the amount of surplus value they need in (optimistically) two years Melo has left of staying near this level of productivity? It’s not impossible, but it is a long shot, a longer shot than most teams in the league. The Knicks may have a higher medium/short term floor with Melo than other teams, but their medium/short term ceiling is lower. As a mediocre or bad team, if you want a title, ceiling is just about all that matters.

    Max- Was just reading Last of the Melohicans while looking for Ruru’s 58% ts% prediction. Agree 100% with above.

    Sorry for bringing it up. But when Melo plays well it burns me up even more, paradoxically.

    I will let it be and just finger my rosary at the trade deadline….

    I have more important things to worry about like what to do with my Powerball winnings

    Looking at the standings today (I think this may have been brought up the other day), but it’s crazy to think that our 18-19 record gets us 7th in the West above Houston, but we are currently only on the fringe in the East. Not sure if the trend continues for the year, but we potentially might be seeing a bit more parity between the conferences, at least in the mid to lower playoff seedings. Hopefully it makes for a more watchable 1st round in the East.

    It would be nice to sneak into the playoffs with our overpaid star. Haha! What would we have talked about the past 5 years without Melo?

    Man, those Harden posts from 2012 are pretty funny. Too bad OKC didn’t listen to y’all

    I don’t think that there’s a scenario where OKC keeps all three guys. They’re just too similar. It probably made sense to trade Harden. The issue was that they dumped him.

    But when Melo plays well it burns me up even more, paradoxically.

    I say 20-25% of Knick fans are in the same boat. Along with 20-25% of NBA fans

    What a dirtbag he is.

    That was a fun thread. And just for the record, Melo had a 54.6% ts% after the all-star break in 2012.

    And great Seraphin mention….

    And good game on TNT. Jae Crowder really has come into his own this year. I carried him for two years in a dynasty league based on his college numbers. Finally broke out.

    No more Melo comments, although really, why would I bring up Jae Crowder? Can’t get that man out of my brain.

    Lance Thomas and Jae Crowder’s numbers and skill sets are very similar. Crowder is a better player on virtue of superior rebounding, assist and steal numbers, but I’d say that in terms of scoring, shooting and man-to-man defense Lance is equal or slightly superior. Either way if Lance can up his rebounding and passing just a little bit he’ll be one hell of a player.

    ruru is going to have an immense time trolling Owen when Melo enters the Hall of Fame.

    You really think Owen’s going to be the individual on this board Ruru trolls above anybody else?

    I love what Lance is doing this year for us (and am pretty shocked by it).

    Still think Crowder has a big edge though…

    I don’t think the edge is as much as the advanced metrics paint it as. Most of the difference like I said is because of his edges in rebounding, passing and steals. While I can’t ever see Lance be a high steals player because of the conservative nature of his defense where he prefers to stick to his man than sneak in to passing lanes, my guess is simply given the improvement he’s demonstrated in his scoring efficiency after being challenged by Fisher that he will make a similar improvement in his passing and rebounding next year. I should have been more clear that I was projecting out and that I think Crowder is clearly the superior player.

    That sequence last night when Rolo and Zinger stuffed Wade’s ass into the front row seats was absolutely delightful, probably the highlight of the game for me.

    That was terrific. Wade froze Zinger with a really nice dribble and you knew he was confident he was going to score and then he got his shit stuffed back in his face

    And good game on TNT. Jae Crowder really has come into his own this year. I carried him for two years in a dynasty league based on his college numbers. Finally broke out.

    I used him as filler in a trade about a year ago. The trade has worked out, but I would love to get him back on my roster. Kudos for sticking to your guns with him!

    I’m still coming to grips with the win. The Heat are really really good this year, and they were healthy, rested, up for the game, and playing at home. Yet these rebuilding Knicks outplayed them on both ends all night and held it together in crunch time. It was just absolutely fucking awesome. It was like coming in at night from hours in the bitter cold, swallowing a big gulp of hot mulled cider, and feeling the sweet warmth permeate your whole belly.

    KP has become a 1st team caliber defense PF. I can’t think of a PF who is as important to his team’s defense.

    Draymond Green says hello.

    Anthony Davis, Serge Ibaka, Bosh, Noel. Shit, even old man KG (and obviously Duncan, if hes playinf the 4) Porzingis seems like a second tier defensive PF as a 20 year old rookie. That’s tremendous, and my eyes say he’s been improving. Give him another year or two and I think he could be one of the 2-3 best.

    KP still gets beat off the dribble way too easily. He is already an excellent rim protector but he has a long ways to go with his man-to-man defense to be considered elite defensively. But I believe he will get there because the effort and potential is certainly there.

    Is it weird that KP gets beat off the dribble by 4s more than he does guards or wing players?

    hahaha did ruruland just say that Carmelo Anthony has gotten better with age? hahahahahahah hahahahahahahahahahahahaa stop

    that is not factorial

    KP has become a 1st team caliber defense PF. I can’t think of a PF who is as important to his team’s defense.

    Do you only get the MSG channel? I think you only get the MSG channel.

    I actually think KP is pretty much a top-10 help defender already. He struggles with veterans in the post who subtly use their hips and butts to knock him off balance – I remember Scola absolutely schooling him, but Scola does that to pretty much everyone 1-on-1. Horford too.

    I don’t get the feeling that he gets beaten off the dribble much by big guys. Bosh beats everyone off the dribble, and honestly is an awesome offensive player, so I don’t think it’s a huge surprise that KP was unable to handle him 1-on-1. But he absolutely ate Millsap’s lunch the game before.

    He is going to be such a monster in 2-3 years. His mobility + shot-blocking ability is just amazing. Really – he’s going to be in the Ibaka/Anthony Davis class of defenders by age 22.

    I hope that Carmelo circled this matchup against KL after being obliterated in the first game at MSG. If he brings the fourth consecutive top 10 NBA player game the Knicks have a chance.

    KP has outplayed in individual matchups this season guys like LMA, Millsap and all time legend Kevin Love whom he destroyed last time out. His defensive impact is reflected in basically any metric you can look at. At this point he’s projecting to be a Rudy Gobert level defender with far more offensive potential. I don’t care how he ranks now but it seems to be more of a question of when rather than if he becomes one of the premier defensive players in the league.

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