Knicks Morning News (2015.07.29)

  • [New York Times] Yao Holding Court as Beijing Bids for Winter Olympics (Wed, 29 Jul 2015 09:37:35 GMT)

    Standing 2.29 meters (7ft 6in) tall, Yao Ming has never been able to hide in the background. And now, as one of the front men of Beijing’s bid to host the 2022 Winter Olympics, the former NBA star is again the center of attention.

  • [New York Times] Elena Delle Donne Emerges as Face of the W.N.B.A. (Wed, 29 Jul 2015 01:24:04 GMT)

    With the league’s best players gathered for Saturday’s All-Star Game, Delle Donne’s colleagues, including Brittney Griner, are acknowledging that she has begun to fulfill the lofty expectations with which she entered the league.

  • 71 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2015.07.29)”

    This is where Pippen went wrong, according to Shaq. O’Neal explains:

    “He made it personal when he said, ‘Oh, at Shaq, hey I don’t believe in hypotheticals.’ So he swung first, so I’m going to swing second, and I’m going to swing last. Because I don’t let bums disrespect me.

    I’m not sure these dudes know what hypothetical means

    Awww, it’s so cute when you pull out that dust-covered WoW shit. But yeah, Faried is great, keep thinking that. Can’t shoot a jumper or FT, or pass, or defend, but sure, he’s worth $13 million per.

    You know there are other stats on that page, right? And that he scores more points per 48 than the average PF, so he doesn’t fall into the “extreme low usage” set that everyone likes to dump on?

    And when did I ever say he was worth $13M a year? The last four seasons he’s made $6.2M total. You wouldn’t take that contract on your team? Seriously? Are you serious? Is this actually serious? I can’t tell if you’re serious. You’re serious? You’re not serious.

    I hope Chuck or Ernie asks Shaq a hypothetical every night until he loses it and gets kicked off TV

    (cont.)

    I believe Ted talks about basketball and asks for justifications of commenter’s positions.

    Yes. You’re right. He did. But he’s also doing the equivalent of going to a town library’s book club, listening to other members’ opinions, and then vociferously badgering them to provide specific textual evidence for those opinions.

    Maybe in his place of business it’s acceptable to respond to conjecture with a request for evidence, but this is not his place of business nor is it a forum that insists its members produce independent research. This is a basketball forum that privileges WS48 and TS% over PER and FG%. It’s not exactly a den of microecon PhDs.

    Worst of all was his tone. I have asked people on this board to review their assumptions about basketball, and I have sometimes done so in a crude way. Ted’s posts were virtually universal in their seething, petulant arrogance. His ban is justified for the tone alone. I’m sure he could have contributed a lot to the board were he not so insistent on beginning every sentence as if he would open-handedly slap every poster he responded to.

    I think the Ted banning was an impossible situation.
    One person calls the other a liar. Then an ultimatum followed by Ted doubling down.
    I found Ted’s points insightful at times and inciting at other times. His inability/unwillingness to walk back arguments or curtail his cross examinations were painful.
    I have to say, his commentary seemed to drive a lot of posting over the past few weeks, so that might hurt Mike in some ways. I don’t know.
    I also find it ridiculous that at the core of the nastiest stuff was a disagreement with regards to seat 15 on the Knicks’ bench.
    Time to hibernate until the season starts…

    The most annoying thing about Ted was his dissecting and responding line by line to other people’s posts. After a while, when I saw the Ted Nelson byline and the inevitable voluminous (and tedious) post to follow, I just stopped reading and moved on to the next one.

    Don’t know if that was worth a ban, but it doesn’t bother me either way since I stopped reading a long time ago.

    “And when did I ever say he was worth $13M a year? The last four seasons he’s made $6.2M total. You wouldn’t take that contract on your team? Seriously? Are you serious? Is this actually serious? I can’t tell if you’re serious. You’re serious? You’re not serious.”

    Yes, I would be happy to have Faried on a rookie contract. He is better than a significant amount of guys drafted ahead of him. But he’s nowhere near as good as WP48 suggests, due to several significant holes in his game that are undervalued by WP48. Just my opinion. Obviously not Denver’s opinion, since they did extend him for 4 years @ $50 million.

    But again, the point is that you mocked folks (I assume including me) for debating whether players would be good based on the available evidence thus far, including SL performance, when you have historically done the same in the past…but not this year, when there are so many intriguing prospects to talk about. What’s your opinion on Porzingis? Turner? Towns? Anyone?

    In other words, do you have an opinion on anything, other than taking shots at the tone or discussion value of other posts? Really? The guy who has dubbed himself a “banished seer” and a humorous derivative “Nostradamus” having no predictions other than the usual “The Knicks will always suck” “The Spurs will always be great” and BoxScoreGeeks.com is da bomb” stuff?

    Regarding Ted Nelson, I always found him to be like a Rajon Rondo. When he’s on his game, he’s great to read. When he engages in these side arguments, he seems like a pain in the ass.

    It’s not my board though, and regardless of what you think about the owner of a board, if you are a patron, you need to respect him. To be honest, I would much rather have an ignore feature than a straight out ban. While I respect and agree with most of your opinions that Ted can often be quite abrasive, it is something I am willing to read. By banning him, it eliminates the possibility for those that do enjoy parts of his posts enough to tolerate certain other parts from reading it.

    Would Eric Moreland help the Knicks at center? He’s been placed on waivers.

    Ted reminds me a lot of a terrible ex-girlfriend of mine. She had the same thing going where she would be very snide and caustic, but then if you gave any of that back to her she would cry bloody murder. She would never give one tiny fraction of a millimeter in any argument, and was not satisfied that the argument was settled until her point was accepted as correct, my point was discredited as completely ludicrous and the earth from which my wrongness emanated was razed and salted over so no other wrong thought could ever emerge from it again.

    People with this type of persecution complex are always in search of an apology that is never coming. The argument never ends with this type of person, it just morphs into another argument and before you know it you’ve spent countless hours of your life trying to defend some tangential thing you said about granola bars or laundry detergent or Lance Thomas or something equally trivial.

    I’m not gonna bite, DRed. (Pun intended)

    Question: has anyone read any of Phil Jackson’s books? Are they good, informative, entertaining, or just self-aggrandizement, or what? I’m thinking about reading one in the quiet weeks of August…

    But again, the point is that you mocked folks (I assume including me) for debating whether players would be good based on the available evidence thus far, including SL performance, when you have historically done the same in the past…but not this year, when there are so many intriguing prospects to talk about.

    My love for Faried and Anderson had nothing to do with SL. It had everything to do with Faried being a four-year player with absurd rebounding numbers and Anderson also having absurd numbers in college. I certainly was confused by Anderson’s Anthony Bennett impression on the offensive side of the floor last year, but he was a great #30 pick given his college stats, regardless of whether he lit up the SL competition.

    Question: has anyone read any of Phil Jackson’s books? Are they good, informative, entertaining, or just self-aggrandizement, or what? I’m thinking about reading one in the quiet weeks of August…

    I recently read Eleven Rings (or rather listened to it on Audible). I found it to be a mix of all of the above. Kind of a crappy answer, I know, but for $11.99 on Audible (might have been a sale I think) it was worth the read. It won’t give you anymore insight into his team building philosophy than you probably already have, but getting the inside story on some things (like how Jordan and Pippen HATED Kukoc, or how smart those champion Knick teams really were) is interesting enough for some easy reading.

    “My love for Faried and Anderson had nothing to do with SL. It had everything to do with Faried being a four-year player with absurd rebounding numbers and Anderson also having absurd numbers in college. I certainly was confused by Anderson’s Anthony Bennett impression on the offensive side of the floor last year, but he was a great #30 pick given his college stats, regardless of whether he lit up the SL competition.”

    And just about everyone we have discussed around this year’s draft has a record from either college (even 4-year records like Kaminsky and Grant) or from overseas. Who’s your guy this year?

    BTW, when it’s all said and done, Faried may not even be a top-15 player from that draft. Leonard, Butler, Mirotic, Valanciunas, Irving, Vucevic, Klay and Tristian Thompson are better players already, and Kanter, Parsons, Walker, Harris, Markief, Jackson, Donatas, Joseph and others are on the rise. You trumped him up as if you would have surely taken him in the top 5, and that it was some sort of crime that he went #22. After 4 years, he still can’t even get a coach to play him more than 28 mpg despite having shitty players in front of him!

    Come to think of it, that was a pretty good draft! Even guys like Shump and Knight are solid rotation players making big money!

    Leonard, Butler, Mirotic, Valanciunas, Irving, Vucevic, Klay and Tristian Thompson are better players already, and Kanter, Parsons, Walker, Harris, Markief, Jackson, Donatas, Joseph and others are on the rise.

    By cumulative Win Score (yes, I know) Faried has outproduced all of those guys- save Kyrie, Butler and Kawhi. So no, I don’t think it would have been insane to take him in the high lottery.

    What we’re seeing with Faried is that because of being a 4-year college player who excelled at the one skill that was statistically the most transferable to the NBA, he came into the NBA as a finished product. It was pretty predictable that he would be a very good rebounder in the NBA. But the criticism was that he was undersized, had virtually no offensive upside, and would be a minus player on defense.

    And lo and behold! All of that has come to pass. Faried’s TS%, WS48, and ORtg have all steadily declined over his 4 years in the NBA. And he continues to be a well known liability on defense. He consistently has more turnovers than assists. Even WP suggests that he’s heading in the wrong direction.

    DRed, in a redraft right now, based on their progress thus far as NBA players, where would you pick him? All of these guys have their supposed primes ahead of them, so it’s a valid way to assess the oreder of that draft. Faried’s best year by far was his rookie season. Are you taking him in your top 10? If yes, you just lost my vote for Knicks’ GM.

    No doubting Faried has been useful to date in his career, however (this is purely on eye test and having him as a keeper in a fantasy league, so yeah I am totes bring all the evidence), his game hasn’t really evolved, especially his offense. He is a great energy guy who brings a lot on the rebounding front, but he’s still too limited for me to be comfortable in saying that he was worthy of being atop 10 pick. I think he has also played well into the stereotype that 4-5 year guys are generally pretty well set in their game and don’t significantly improve.

    He’s given good value for where he was drafted, but I think if he were to have cracked the top 10, he could arguably be deemed to have not been as good value. Not a bust, but not what you want out of your lottery pick.

    I don’t think there’s any way he gets out of the top 10 in a redraft. He was a very valuable player the last 4 years

    I am expecting much better things from Faried with Shaw out of town…

    I don’t know if Faried ends up being one of the 10 best players in that draft but he’ll be real close if he isn’t.

    His defense is iffy, I will admit that. I think a better coach could get more out of him on that end.

    I think posters like Ted are important to have on these types of communities because while they may be difficult to converse with (an understatement), they’ll often bring original and challenging points of view that add to the conversation. Obviously it would be ideal if you could have the latter without the former, but if they’re bundled together I do believe (or hope – I don’t know enough of Ted’s posts to know if they are worth it – I know he’s been in and out for a long time) that the net positive to the conversation is a bonus if people know how to deal with him. The issue is that this isn’t a forum, it’s a set of blog posts, so that it’s not like there will be select days and topics where you can have casual talks without him dominating the conversation. The issue was that every time I looked onto this site, there was a 200+ comment thread of inane bickering between him and the other posters. It made the site briefly entertaining but mostly unreadable and really detracted from the quality of it. If people had the option to block his posts or just post elsewhere, I’d be more accepting of it, but they don’t because of the format of the blog. And I hate the stupid mantra of “Well if you don’t like my posts then don’t read them” – when 80% of the posts are centered around personal arguments between posters, the comment section becomes a chore to go through and it seriously detracts from the site. So overall I think the right choice was made.

    And to clarify, I’m the culprit who called him an asshole once because I posted the quote (in reference to him) “If one person is an asshole, they’re probably an asshole. If every person is an asshole, you’re probably an asshole”. Harsh but I thought it was fitting given that he was always squabbling with several people at once.

    Thanks, Kahnzy. Probably will skip it.

    That’s actually probably a good call. I got to thinking about it, and even though I finished it only a couple of months ago…I had trouble remembering much about it. So that right there should tell you all you need to know; interesting reading at the time, but not much to take away from it. Kinda like Shaq as an “analyst”: fun for a bit, but ultimately forgettable.

    But defense is a pretty important thing, especially for a smallish PF who can’t score outside the paint. And passing is a pretty big thing if you plan to play like the Warriors, Spurs or hopefully, the Knicks.

    DRed, which players on this list would you take over Faried for the next 5 years: Leonard, Butler, Mirotic, Valanciunas, Irving, Vucevic, Klay Thompson, Tristian Thompson, Kanter, Parsons, Walker, Harris, Markief, Jackson, Donatas, Joseph.

    Homework procrastination time: 2011 Re-Draft (doing this irrespective of team need, completely on the fly and without any research and without having extensively watched several of these players):
    1) Cavs – Kawhi Leonard
    2) Wolves – Jimmy Butler
    3) Jazz – Kyrie Irving
    4) Cavs – Klay Thompson
    5) Raptors – Brandon Knight
    6) Wizards – Chandler Parsons
    7) Kings – Nikola Vucevic
    8) Pistons – Nikola Mirotic
    9) Bobcats – Kenneth Faired
    10) Bucks – Tristan Thompson
    11) Warriors – Jonas Valanciunas
    12) Suns – Enes Kanter
    13) Bobcats – Markieff Morris
    14) Rockets – Tobias Harris
    15) Pacers – Iman Shumpert
    16) 76ers – Reggie Jackson
    17) Knicks – Kemba Walker
    18) Wizards – Donatas Motiejunas

    OK enough

    Also that was a GREAT draft. Didn’t even put in Alec Burks, our boy Derrick Williams, Lavoy Allen. Ah and looking now I completely missed Isaiah! I’d put him somewhere in the 10-13 mold

    Brandon Knight? Wot?

    I’m down with all of that, except I think Thompson is top 5 and Knight doesn’t even crack the top 20.

    Actually #5 is definitely a little too high for him. He’s probably closer to 10-ish range

    But just for comparison look at the 2012 draft. There are close to 25 real rotation players in the 2011 draft which is insane

    That draft was quite stacked and the NBA collectively fucked it up completely.

    There’s not a GM in the NBA who would take Faried over Valanciunas or Tristian Thompson right now.

    Saying Kenneth Faried is a flawed player is one thing. Saying that Vucevic, Jackson, Markieff (???), Kanter, Donatas, and even Valanciunas are better, or even comparable, players is another thing that is pretty highly objectionable. Faried is far from perfect, but was great value at 22 and had we picked him instead of Shumpert we’d be a lot better for it.

    Interesting re-draft. Not sure I would have Brandon Knight going as high. You’ve already mentioned Isiah missing, but he definitely needs to be in the lottery picture for my mind. I would be taking Valanciunus before Faried though. Has shown to be more well rounded as opposed to be being great at one thing. Maybe late lottery for Faried.

    There’s not a GM in the NBA who would take Faried over Valanciunas or Tristian Thompson right now

    That wasn’t the question, though. You asked for the personal opinion of a fan, not the opinion of GMs. (And if you know the answer already, why ask it?)

    Also, criticizing Faried for his defense and then turning right around and saying Kanter, Vucevic, and Valanciunas are better players is a bit weird because those guys are fucking terrible at defense.

    I’ve been traveling all day. Saw the big news. Am ambivalent. I think Ted has good things to say. I think he needs to recognize that the way he communicates is belligerent. I hope he does recognize it and change his tone wherever he goes next, for his sake. The umpires gave him his warnings and ultimately, by continuing, there was no choice but to eject him.

    2011 was an interesting draft. No superstars but some nice depth.

    Tristan Thompson isn’t even a starter!

    He does have Kevin Love in front of him on the depth charts. I think there are a lot of teams where he would just about be a lock to be a starter at the 4. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t he starting prior to Love joining the Cavs? I honestly can’t remember much of what the Cavs did prior to this season just gone.

    But just for comparison look at the 2012 draft.

    Yeah, and in that draft, the pick we traded in the Melo deal wound up being Royce White, with only a couple of second round picks playing wildly above expectations (Draymond Green and Khris Middleton) being taken after him whom I’d be upset about missing out on. In 2013, we wound up picking late in the first round (and in hindsight should have taken Gobert over Hardaway). In the supposed Greatest Draft in a Generation in 2014, our pick was used on Dario Saric, who has yet to play in the NBA, though it’s obviously too early to tell how good he (if he ever comes here) or any of the players taken in the first round will ultimately turn out to be.

    But unlike the Isiah era, where we traded away the picks that became LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah to get Eddy Curry, I haven’t felt crushed looking at the opportunities missed in order to get Melo.

    Though I am fully prepared to shake my fist at the heavens when I see who Denver and/or Toronto picks next year…

    Wow, so Ted Nelson joins jon abbey on the Do Not Serve list. For a while, during the last years of the Isiah era, they were two of only about six posters that contributed everyday. (Did Caleb get banned too, or did he leave on his own accord?). Who’s next? Owen? Frank O? BigBlueAl? Look out!

    (oh, now that Ted is forbidden from posting here, can we have the Ted Nelson Character Limit lifted?)

    Oh, I wasn’t seriously knocking Tristan for not starting. That was meant to highlight the flaws of judging a player by how much a coach plays him. He had a very good season, and it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he was better than Faried for the next few, but he’d been considered a bust before this year. And I don’t know how you knock Faried for not being able to shot from past 3 feet and then turn around and laud Tristan Thompson-the reason he got effective this year is he went from taking around 45% of his shots around the rim to taking 65% of them there. He’s just as bad from any sort of distance as Faried is.

    Slightly off topic, but does anyone remember when that idiot DRed laughed at Tristan Thompson for turning down a 52 million dollar extension? Whoops.

    DISCLAIMER: I am a born and raised Marylander, but I have been to quite a few places. My favorite sports teams to in no particular order are the Phoenix Mercury, NY Mets, NY Knicks, Dallas Cowboys, Washington Caps, Georgetown Hoyas (hoops), ND Fighting Irish (football). And I also follow the KC Chiefs, Chicago Sky (Delle Donne!!!), LA Kings (Old Gretzky fan), and OKC Thunder (played ball with quite a few local NBA players in Hyattsville MD and I remember watching Durant in his HS years in the park or a gym- dude’s a gym rat for real)

    I tell ya, NY baseball fans are some of the classiest fans I have ever seen. As a matter of fact, I don’t think the entire city gets enough credit for being overall classy fans. Watching the Mets game (and if you’re a Mets fan then you too have been driven crazy by Wilmer Flores), and fans obviously caught wind of the impending trade before the players, so when Flores is up to bat in the 7th- dude gets a really nice ovation. My first thought was good riddance! I hate to see Wheeler go along with him, but I’ve been missing Gomez since the Johan trade(Mets will have a solid defensive outfield with Lagares, Gomez and Grandy btw). Anyway..I just thought that was a really nice, classy gesture from the fans at the game. Bravo.

    I think Caleb moved on to greener pastures.

    Ahh, the Isiah years. Those were fun times.

    Watching the Mets game (and if you’re a Mets fan then you too have been driven crazy by Wilmer Flores), and fans obviously caught wind of the impending trade before the players, so when Flores is up to bat in the 7th- dude gets a really nice ovation. My first thought was good riddance!

    Then Terry Collins left him in for the whole game, which was really just bizarre. If Flores would have gotten hurt in that game that would have been an extreme #LOLMets moment. Well, whatever, he made it through without getting hurt, so yay.

    Someone will have to do an oral history of the knickerblogger Isiah years. Maybe Mike knows how to get in touch with Italian Stallion.

    Then Terry Collins left him in for the whole game, which was really just bizarre. If Flores would have gotten hurt in that game that would have been an extreme #LOLMets moment. Well, whatever, he made it through without getting hurt, so yay.

    Ha! Yes. Very much so

    @44 heard Juan was rubbing tears from his eyes after that half inning, so pretty emotional for him too.

    I work in Wilmington, DE and Delle Donne was/is a goddess. A pretty hot one.

    Please don’t get me started on Terry Collins. But, to defend him, he may not have known until late in the game that the trade was going through.

    I feel kinda sad about Flores. Seeing him cry certainly showed that he cared. He signed with them at 16. The good thing for him is that he’ll probably get set at a position (2b?) by the Brewers and have time in a less stress free environment (no pennant race) to develop. I could see him becoming a .280-ish 20+ HR guy at 2b.

    I though it was nice to see David Wright follow him down the tunnel after TC pulled him out of the game and apparently told him that he was traded. There are still a few nice people in the world…

    Wherever the Italian Stallion is, he is betting on something right now, that is for sure….

    “Saying Kenneth Faried is a flawed player is one thing. Saying that Vucevic, Jackson, Markieff (???), Kanter, Donatas, and even Valanciunas are better, or even comparable, players is another thing that is pretty highly objectionable. Faried is far from perfect, but was great value at 22 and had we picked him instead of Shumpert we’d be a lot better for it.”
    “Also, criticizing Faried for his defense and then turning right around and saying Kanter, Vucevic, and Valanciunas are better players is a bit weird because those guys are fucking terrible at defense.”

    In post #16, I said the following:

    when it’s all said and done, Faried may not even be a top-15 player from that draft. Leonard, Butler, Mirotic, Valanciunas, Irving, Vucevic, Klay and Tristian Thompson are better players already, and Kanter, Parsons, Walker, Harris, Markief, Jackson, Donatas, Joseph and others are on the rise.

    Here’s 2014-15 season stats for Faried, Jonas V, Tristan, Vuc, and Kanter:

    http://bkref.com/tiny/2ObPQ

    By what measure is Faried better than any of these guys? He has the lowest WS48 and the lowest TS%. Their rebounding stats are very similar. He is the oldest one in the group, and his stats have declined steadily each year, while the others are on the rise. You may like Faried better, but the stats don’t support that opinion.

    @53
    Reportedly it has been agreed upon but they are waiting for the Brewers to fully go through the medical stuff on Wheeler. Gomez has been told that it is done.

    Just another example of the Twitter era, for better or worse.

    As bad as Enes Kanter is defensively, he was a 20-10 player with a .611 TS% for the Thunder last season. I think it’s fair to say he has a decent chance to be better than Kenneth Faried. Right now, I would take Irving, Klay Thompson, Kanter, JV, Mirotic, Butler, Leonard, Parsons, Vucevic, and probably Isaiah Thomas (he plays a more important position) over Kenneth Faried. So that’s a solid 10 players I’d take ahead of him. Tristan Thompson, Kemba Walker, Brandon Knight, Tobias Harris, and Reggie Jackson could all eventually be better players than Faried, too. It’s interesting how good that draft class was even though the lottery picks were terrible.

    All the personal attacks and bickering has made this site much less enjoyable lately. Can we talk basketball with an emphasis on pathetic Knicks.

    By what measure is Faried better than any of these guys? He has the lowest WS48 and the lowest TS%. Their rebounding stats are very similar. He is the oldest one in the group, and his stats have declined steadily each year, while the others are on the rise. You may like Faried better, but the stats don’t support that opinion.

    How many WS/WP did he put up for $6.2M? I’m just curious why it’s such a big deal that those other dudes had shite rookie and sophomore seasons and Faried’s been anywhere from stellar to above-average for $1.5M a year but since he’s not showing “signs of improvement” or whatever, he’s not a good pick.

    The Knicks haven’t had a Faried since David Lee. We would have been blessed to have a guy as hustle-oriented and efficient as Faried has been for the last four years.

    @58 +1
    i rarely ever comment (almost never) but i’ve been following this blog for several years now and not that my opinion matters but i welcome the ban of ted. he had some good points but his way of commenting and arguing really became annoying to read (and response to as well i guess). i always liked this blog’s mix of news, stats, humor and interesting comments and to me that kinda changed due to his comments. just my two cents on it…

    How many WS/WP did he put up for $6.2M? I’m just curious why it’s such a big deal that those other dudes had shite rookie and sophomore seasons and Faried’s been anywhere from stellar to above-average for $1.5M a year but since he’s not showing “signs of improvement” or whatever, he’s not a good pick.

    There are rookies more NBA-ready than others. Usually older rookies, and stats work well with them. You pointed out that, and you were right that his stats translated. But other rookies were drafted based on his measurements/athletic ability/potential. These players were taken because GMs expected them to be good in 2/3/4 years. No way you take Faried ahead of Valanciunas now. However, Faried has been a good pick (specially, respect to the position he was drafted)

    Depending on the team deploying him on the court, I could see Faried as the fifth best player of that draft. Leonard, Butler and Thompson are clearly ahead of him. Kyrie is just a step ahead. From there, anything goes in my opinion. His range and defense are questionable at best, but you can’t overstate the impact of the sheer hustle that Faried gives to his team (when motivated). Do you remember him at the FIBA World Cup? Opposition had no means of stopping him.

    Kenneth Faried might be the first player to have the terms “hustle” and “bad defense” used in association with him. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it before.

    All things considered, I’d rather have all four players you listed along with JV (16 and 11 per 36 on a .621 TS% is damn impressive), Kanter, Parsons, Mirotic, and Vucevic on my team next season than Kenneth Faried based on the trajectories of their careers. Faried has been better than them so far, though, so we have to give him credit for being an impact player. I wonder how effective he’ll be without Ty Lawson. Not to say Lawson is the reason he’s been successful, but Lawson is one of the best passers in the league, and garbage bucket scorers usually thrive off of easy dump offs and alley oops.

    Here’s 2014-15 season stats for Faried, Jonas V, Tristan, Vuc, and Kanter:

    http://bkref.com/tiny/2ObPQ

    By what measure is Faried better than any of these guys? He has the lowest WS48 and the lowest TS%. Their rebounding stats are very similar. He is the oldest one in the group, and his stats have declined steadily each year, while the others are on the rise. You may like Faried better, but the stats don’t support that opinion.

    Thanks for putting that up. To me they looked to be a wash. If you went by box score +/- (yes I know) Faried was the only one in positive territory. He was also 2nd in VORP to Vucevic (1.4-2.1) Thompson and Valanciunias were 0.8, Kantner -0.1. Like a lot of things it depends on what you look at I guess. Not too long ago these guys would have been derided as a bust who is “another piece of proof” that the lottery is no guarantee (Thompson) and white European centers.

    By what measure is Faried better than any of these guys?

    By career productivity. That doesn’t mean he’s gonna be more productive going forward, but if you’re redoing the 2011 draft it’s not something you can just ignore.

    By career productivity. That doesn’t mean he’s gonna be more productive going forward, but if you’re redoing the 2011 draft it’s not something you can just ignore.

    I think the idea was more about ranking the 2011 draftees as you like them today. However, if you give points to Faried for being productive early in his career, then you have to deduct points because he is older than others and (statistically) his career will be shorter.

    We would have been blessed to have a guy as hustle-oriented and efficient as Faried has been for the last four years.

    That’s what’s most depressing about Shumpert. If his offense never really developed – the only consistent aspect is that the rim would block a good portion of his layups – he could have provided real value as a hard-nosed defender, and most people would still have loved him, despite his efficiency. Anyone remember that interview he did with Lin and Novak, and someone asked a question about his defense and he got all shy about how he just wanted to lock people down and playing great defense was what motivated him and he loved that part of the game and blah blah blah?

    And then he got hurt. When he came back, that defense-loving dude never really reappeared. He never became Tony Allen lite. He got hung up on screens my grandma could have got over. In the end, he wasn’t even really trying. No matter what’s going on around you on the team, if you say you love playing hard-nosed defense, and then on the court you don’t hustle, and you don’t even seem to care, then you should GTFOOT. And good riddance.

    if you give points to Faried for being productive early in his career, then you have to deduct points because he is older than others and (statistically) his career will be shorter.

    I don’t agree with this. Players have windows of peak performance. I don’t think it matters whether those years are in the beginning, middle, or end of a career. The important thing for a team is to take advantage of it when it happens. (If a player takes 4 years to develop, those developing years aren’t insignificant, btw– it’s the period in which the drafting team controls the player for cheap. Late bloomers like Lowrey and Billups became allstars, but because their development was slow, their success was of no benefit to the teams that drafted them.)

    Someone will have to do an oral history of the knickerblogger Isiah years. Maybe Mike knows how to get in touch with Italian Stallion.

    I think it’s ironic that one of Italian Stallion’s defenses of himself was that every time he posted Ted would attack him because he was questioning the validity of some of the statistics everyone else was using to evaluate players. He ultimately got barred when things got a little more personal between him and Mike, but now Ted has had gotten barred to a large extent for exactly what IS often pointed out as the real problem on the forum.

    the other thing to keep in mind is that for a franchise, it is better for a guy to be good right off the bat. You get far more bang for your buck on a rookie deal. Say Tristan Thompson is going to be the superior garbage bucket guy going forward-he’s going to be getting 80 million for the sort of production Faried already gave Denver for 6 million.

    @70 DRed, it depends how you look at things. My feeling is that your first hope in drafting a player in the lottery is to find a franchise-altering player that you will never overpay no matter what he makes. It’s the Bird rights to keep the player if he turns out to be a star that is the most valuable feature of the draft pick (unless they are willing to risk all and keep taking the QO until they become unrestricted, of course!)

    Faried was a very good pick at #22, and should not have been passed over by as many teams as he was, but was not as much of a “steal” as some others, e.g. Butler, Parsons, Thomas. I didn’t have a problem with the Knicks taking Shump over him because I thought Shump had more potential as a 2 than Faried had as a 4. But if I took Faried in this draft at #5, I’d be very meh. 8-12 sounds about right.

    Comments are closed.