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Friday, November 24, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.11.08)

  • [NYDN] Doug McDermott scores 20, turns in best game since joining Knicks
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 7:13:57 PM)

    Doug McDermott dropped in some of the most important McBuckets Tuesday.

  • [NYDN] Kristaps Porzingis’ MVP-like start puts him in elite company
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 5:25:51 PM)

    There has been a certain Lin-sanity quality to Kristaps Porzingis recently.

  • [NYDN] Knicks overcome double-digit deficit to beat Hornets
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 5:06:22 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis leads Knicks to comeback win over Hornets, Knicks’ win streak improves to six.

  • [NYDN] Knicks fan votes for Kristaps Porzingis for mayor of NYC
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 3:32:51 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis has captivated New York City and now it looks like one Knicks fan wants him to govern it.

  • [NYDN] Kristaps Porzingis named Eastern Conference POTW
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 2:16:17 PM)

    The NBA apparently believes in unicorns, too.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo on joining Thunder, Kaepernick and helping Puerto Rico
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 9:12:42 AM)

    Carmelo Anthony doesn’t appear to miss the Knicks one bit.

  • [NYDN] DN Sports Talk Podcast: Porzingis and Knicks off to fast start
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 9:03:45 AM)

    Daily News Knicks beat writer Stefan Bondy (@SBondyNYDN) joins the Popcast this week to discuss an exciting start from Kristaps Porzingis.

  • [NYTimes] Knicks 118, Hornets 113: Knicks Rally Past Hornets for Third Straight Win
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 4:50:17 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis scored 28 points, including a tie-breaking 3-pointer with less than two minutes remaining, in the win.

  • [NYPost] How Frank Ntilikina continues to show he isn’t a typical rookie
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 8:45:28 PM)

    Frank Ntilikina is shattering some NBA stereotypes. There are certain truths the NBA world has held to be self-evident since the time someone decided a piece of curved iron would work better than a peach basket as a goal. Rookies cannot play defense. Teenage rookies cannot and will not play defense. European teenage rookies cannot…

  • [NYPost] Hornets rookie showed Knicks the potential they passed on
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 8:35:33 PM)

    Maybe the Knicks should have drafted Malik Monk after all. He certainly looked at home at the Garden on Tuesday night. Monk, the former one-and-done Kentucky star some fans had hoped the Knicks would draft last June, enjoyed one of his best performances as a pro, scoring 21 points in the Hornets’ 118-113 loss. “He…

  • [NYPost] A locker room leader has helped fuel Knicks’ comebacks
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 8:06:30 PM)

    Lance Thomas led the way with his play on defense Sunday as the Knicks rallied from down big to beat the Pacers. On Tuesday, against the Hornets, he did more of the same — and he also rallied his team with his words in a 118-113 win over Charlotte. After the Knicks had surrendered 69…

  • [NYPost] This is the ‘Dougie McBuckets’ NBA fans have been waiting on
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 6:45:20 PM)

    “Dougie McBuckets,” Kyle O’Quinn bellowed. “That’s what he do,” Tim Hardaway Jr. added. “He gets buckets since he was born.” Doug McDermott wasn’t just a fan favorite Tuesday night. He was also the toast of the Knicks’ locker room after he produced his best performance in blue and orange, scoring 20 points on just eight…

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ ‘other guys’ take charge in another Garden party
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 6:29:32 PM)

    The capper, of course, came from Kristaps Porzingis, because that’s the way it happens with the Knicks now, just about every night, in just about any circumstance you can imagine. This time, the score was tied at 111, there were just under two minutes left, and Madison Square Garden was trembling with giddiness. The Knicks…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis’ magic caps Knicks’ full-team comeback
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 5:23:01 PM)

    Familiarity breeds contempt. And, apparently, comeback victories. Two nights after the Knicks rallied from a 19-point grave, they did it again, this time scrambling back from 15 down. Call it: “The Comeback II” or “Rally, The Sequel” or if you really want to grab attention “Leggy Supermodels From Mars.” Nah, go with the comeback angle….

  • [NYPost] Why it’s finally OK to jump on the Knicks bandwagon
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 3:50:54 PM)

    So the city was all agog and googly-eyed, the way it gets whenever the Knicks put together an early-season winning streak. It’s what we do as a basketball city, after all, especially one that is starving for a real basketball team and too often has to settle for grainy old replays of games that took…

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis, Knicks rally in fourth quarter to beat Hornets 118-113
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 10:38:34 PM)

    NEW YORK (AP) Kristaps Porzingis scored 28 points, including a tiebreaking 3-pointer with 1:48 remaining, and the New York Knicks beat the Charlotte Hornets 118-113 on Tuesday night for their third straight victory.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s game: Hornets vs. Knicks, 7:30 p.m.
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 6:05:09 PM)

    NEW YORK — With one Eastern Conference player of the week honor secured, Kristaps Porzingis and the New York Knicks are wondering how high they can go.

  • [SNY Knicks] JR tours Mr. Throwback
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 4:35:29 PM)

    JR gets an exclusive tour of the vintage sports clothing and merchandise shop, Mr. Throwback.

  • [SNY Knicks] Lance Thomas’ defense a silent killer in Sunday’s comeback win
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 1:09:43 PM)

    Knicks SF Lance Thomas may not have jumped out off the score sheet on Sunday, but it was his defense that helped the team in their comeback win over the Pacers.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks shopping Mindaugas Kuzminskas to make room for Noah
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 9:20:30 AM)

    The Knicks are reportedly looking to shop SG Kuzminskas Mindaugas to make room for C Joakim Noah

  • [ESPN] Porzingis: Record ‘means nothing’ if no playoffs
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 1:51:30 AM)

    Porzingis: Record ‘means nothing’ if no playoffs

  • [ESPN] Sources: Knicks shopping Mindaugas Kuzminskas to make room for Joakim Noah
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 8:00:54 AM)

    Sources: Knicks shopping Mindaugas Kuzminskas to make room for Joakim Noah

  • [NY Newsday] Frank Ntilikina as good as advertised in Knicks’ victory over Hornets
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 11:44:00 PM)

    For the first three weeks of the season, a skyscraper-sized mural of Frank Ntilikina towered over Madison Square Garden from the side of a building on 42nd Street.

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis’ big shots cap another Knicks comeback win
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 11:10:38 PM)

    The Knicks celebrated Kristaps Porzingis’ first career Eastern Conference player of the week award with a montage of highlights during the early minutes of Tuesday night’s game against the Hornets at the Garden.

  • [NY Newsday] Jeff Hornacek not surprised by Player of Week honor for Kristaps Porzingis
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 7:17:00 PM)

    Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek isn’t surprised Kristaps Porzingis won Eastern Conference player of the week honors on Monday after a four-game stretch (three wins) in which Porzingis averaged 33.5 points, 6.8 rebounds and 3.25 blocks.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks Insider podcast: Kristaps Porzingis and the best start of any player in Knicks history
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 12:32:00 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis is taking over.

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis has blossomed into the Knicks’ superstar, and the stats are backing it up
    (Tuesday, November 07, 2017 10:49:17 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis has made “the leap.”

  • 209 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.11.08)

    1. alsep73

      Tonight will be an interesting test:

      * Second night of a back-to-back, and third game in four nights, when they had to dig deep to win the first two of those games late.

      * On the road, where (Cleveland game excepted), they haven’t played very well so far.

      * Young and versatile lineup that seems to finally be figuring things out, Aaron Gordon especially, and that could pose matchup problems for NY.

      That KP’s foul trouble and sloppy play limited his minutes last night will help, but the odds seem against the Bockers this evening. If they can win down at the O-Rena, that’d be very cool.

    2. GoNyGoNyGo

      I agree. It’s a really tough challenge. I had a conversation the other day with this guy I know that likes to gamble (I do fantasy but don’t bet sports otherwise). He’s been on a losing streak and somehow we got to hoops. I told him that the best bet in sports was to bet against a team that is in the situation that the Knicks are in, 3rd game in 4 nights, 2nd of back -to-back, away game against a decent, well-rested team. Most of the time this type of game isn’t just a loss, it’s a bad, bad loss. I expect to see some Wily H and maybe some Sessions tonight. Let’s see if the Knicks have the fortitude to hold off the Magic.

      Note that the Magic could be down two point guards tonight. Elfrid and DJ both have hamstring injuries. That leaves them only Shelvin Mack at the point. That could be the break we need.

    3. G

      I think I’ve turned the corner on hoping for losses. We are not passing the four teams on the bottom, and we always seem to screw up the tank anyway and end up having suffered through a painful season for a mediocre slot. It’s too much fun to root for this team anyway–and as many have said, I think the players need the winning as well.

    4. GoNyGoNyGo

      I predicted this team to win 25-35 games. It’s early, but 35-45 seems more reasonable now. That’s a huge swing. The instant chemistry that developed with new players like Ntilikina, Kanter, Hardaway and McDermott is surprising. I’m rooting for wins because this team has a solid core and an excess of talent on the bench. Also, I’m getting too old to say “wait for next season”.

    5. Zanzibar

      Nice Day and Night
      – Knicks win
      – Old productive Lance has returned
      – Horn serious about defense judging by 4Q lineups
      – Frank getting meaningful minutes and is always it seems a plus player
      – Beasley got no minutes, just cut him already
      – Reggie Jackson is not a Knick
      – Trump rejected

      My opinion of our center issue changes every day but here’s mine du jour. If KOQ continues to play this way, you don’t trade him for even a 1st round pick. He posted a .15 WS/48 and 3.5 bpm last season and is besting those really nice stats so far this season. If you don’t get an incredible offer by the trade deadline, you offer him a 3 year 9m/yr extension which is more than the MLE a lot of cap-constrained teams could offer although they could give him a 4-year deal. If Kanter’s play continues, maybe you offer him a 3 year 13m/yr extension at the trade deadline so you don’t have to worry about him opting out. He gives us shot creation on offense that Noah and KOQ lack which is important for this team.

      What about Willy? You could try to play him and KOQ together on the 2nd unit or flip him for a quality young SF. Possibilities might include Harkless, Anderson, Bertans, Covington. Portland’s got luxury tax issues so acquiring and later maybe trading Willy could be an option for them. Spurs have Kawhi at SF so they’re likely not gonna keep Bertans and Anderson. Covington’s a long shot but a S&T might be possible this summer.

    6. alsep73

      I think I’ve turned the corner on hoping for losses. We are not passing the four teams on the bottom, and we always seem to screw up the tank anyway and end up having suffered through a painful season for a mediocre slot. It’s too much fun to root for this team anyway–and as many have said, I think the players need the winning as well.

      This is me. The current record and level of play probably aren’t sustainable, if only because KP’s usage has been so damn high and we’ve played so much at home, but barring catastrophic injury, this team at worst seems destined for somewhere between 6th and 10th place in the East, which isn’t enough for us to get Doncic or Porter without a ton of lottery luck. In that case, might as well root for them to win, while also not being too upset about the losses, because each one of them improves our draft position; even if we’re likely to miss out on the cream of this year’s crop, we’re still good at drafting, it seems.

    7. Frank

      Underrated thing from last night – 9 guys played between 18 to 36 minutes. KP only played 29 because of that mild foul trouble in the first half (what a BS call on his 4th block in a row on Zeller!). Nice minute management by Hornacek going into the back-to-back.

      Also – we spent all that time talking about how good the Knicks’ defensive rebounding has been, and they just got beasted on the glass by Charlotte last night. 17 offensive rebounds for the Hornets, as well as the Knicks being -3 in turnovers too. If we could just have rebounded the ball, this game should have/ would have been a blowout. Knicks shot 60(!)/48(!)/76 for the game and still had to come from way behind to win.

      Tonight will be an interesting matchup — Aaron Gordon vs KP will be a treat. Aaron Gordon is only about 6’7″ though – doubt he will really be able to contest KP without really leaving his feet. Meanwhile Gordon is shooting 56% from 3 point range?!?

      Our 3 point defense has been pretty terrible – we are bottom five (not in a good way) in terms of opponent 3 point attempts from everwhere (L/R corner, above the break) – and so Stretch Aaron Gordon and Stretch Vucevic might really be a problem.

      Another interesting tidbit – we give up the 5th most FGA in the restricted area (not good), but have the 2nd lowest (in a good way) DFG% on those shots at 55.3%. NBA average looks like around 63% DFG% in the restricted area. Why? KP is leading the league by a gigantic margin in terms of DFG% allowed at the rim of players playing any kind of reasonable minutes –> 34%. Next closest is Jarell Martin at 40%, then 3rd best is KOQ at 41.9%. Just to give a little context, Joel Embiid and Anthony Davis are in the 50-52% range.

      That said – I’m not sure our middling defense is sustainable so far. We cannot be giving up this many 3 point and rim attempts.

    8. Frank

      btw shoutout to Lance Thomas, who was awesome again last night — great defense, hit his shots, and came down with some huge defensive rebounds after it seemed like Charlotte was getting offensive rebounds on every missed shot.

      Lance is basically the new Jared Jeffries, except Lance can actually hit an outside shot. Now 41% from 3 for his career (228 attempts, not such a small sample anymore), and over his last 2+ seasons with the Knicks is shooting 85.6% from the line on 174 attempts. It would not be a stretch to say that Lance is a legitimately respectable shooter that opposing defenses can’t just lay off of.

      re: McDermott – is 54/43/87.5 good in terms of shooting? Or a TS 66.4? I feel like it’s good.

    9. alsep73

      Lance is basically the new Jared Jeffries, except Lance can actually hit an outside shot.

      Not as long as JJ was, but that’s an excellent comparison. And I’ll take Lance’s shooting over Jeffries’ occasional blocks.

    10. lavor postell

      @Frank

      2 things about our defense:

      1. We’ll continue to be bad at giving up 3s and rim attacks as long as Jack is starting at point. He tries but he can’t keep ball handlers out of the paint.

      2. We have our weak side defenders crash down into the paint to hit the rolling big on PnR. This routinely leaves the weak side corner and wing open for 3 and we don’t have the athletes up and down the roster to get away with it.

      You can see the difference it makes when Frank is in the game. He made Kemba super uncomfortable the entire 4th quarter and once we went with Lance/KP at the 4 and 5 it completely neutered their PnR game. Good job Jeff.

      Frank, Lance and KP is a very nice defensive trio at the 1, 4 and 5 respectively because of how comfortable they are at switching. If Lance is hitting shots like he did last night and continues to crash the glass like he has been then those 3 plus THJr and either Lee or McDermott are likely to be the closing lineup of choice.

    11. bobneptune

      – Trump rejected

      I can’t let this go…. the last time I checked he sits in the Oval Office.

      Secondly Ed Gillespe not only didn’t embrace Trumps’s form of populism, he is the poster child for the R establishment as former RNC chair. He is the paragon of the Old R party which was soundly rejected in one of the few swing states Hil won. Also breaking news where Christie butt girl got hammered in a blue state.

      More breaking news at 11…..

    12. mase

      I would also like to see Dotson get some burn, the opportunity may present itself for him since we need some more speed on the wing. As crazy as it sounds we could go to another level on defense With him and Noah.

    13. ess-dog

      The Hornets played 3 fantastic quarters and still lost. Their 3pt shooting and rebounding was off the charts.

      I think more pt for Frank will help the 3pt defense a bit. I like that Horny is making guys earn pt with defense. What a weird concept!

      Also using KP at center was dare I say a near brilliant move by Horny. Is it possible that he’s actually a good coach?

      I’ll admit I underrated this team. I had them at 26-27 wins thinking KP would still be too frail and would get injured at some point. What I didn’t take into account was that he spent the whole summer away from the Knicks training staff! He’s clearly a smart kid…

    14. alsep73

      With him and Noah.

      That’s the potentially wild thing. I mean, odds are Noah is just done, and will be an obscenely-overpaid mentor for KP and the other bigs for the next few years. But the imbalanced nature of the roster also means he doesn’t have to play very much, and if conserving him for 10-15 minutes a night means we might get 10-15 minutes of something resembling the younger Noah — on the court at the same time as Frank, Lance, and maybe KP — that might just be a Defensive Lineup of Death.

    15. hornyKnickfan

      @14 Yeah I was surprised when Horny put Porzingis at center too. We haven’t seen that much so far this season and it was the perfect recipe at the perfect moment. Kudos.

    16. bobneptune

      Interesting enough for players with >100 minutes, Frank leads the league in steals /36 and is 9th in assists/36 Pretty much a PG’s job description…. defend and expedite the offense.

    17. lavor postell

      Younger Noah was the type of big you could play with KP and keep defensive integrity even against smaller lineups, so if that’s actually possible, even just situationally that would be pretty freaking sweet.

    18. Frank

      Good observation from Hornacek re: KP’s finger-roll in crunch time –> that he knew exactly how much time/space he had left, and that this year, he’s just not in a hurry anymore. Definitely have noticed fewer awkward rushed shots this year, even while on the move in traffic. Maybe he used those crazy strobe light glasses that Curry and Kawhi use to “slow the game down” (per Tom Haberstroh).

    19. Zanzibar

      the last time I checked he sits in the Oval Office….Secondly Ed Gillespe not only didn’t embrace Trumps’s form of populism, he is the poster child for the R establishment as former RNC chair.

      It’s not just Gillespie. The Dems likely will retake the Virginia House of Delegates which is something nobody predicted. Were all of those R’s “establishment” who were defeated?

    20. mase

      Team chemistry is at an all time high and it’s not a fluke as long as defense keeps up.
      I don’t know who to give the game ball to from last night, lots of choices.

    21. bobneptune

      Were all of those R’s “establishment” who were defeated?

      Since Trump has only been President for a year, I don’t think it is likely any “trump-ites” were up for re-election and were repudiated :-)

      You really don’t want to debate which party holds a larger % of state legislatures, do you? However, if you are asking if Va is been trending D over the past election cycles, I wouldn’t disagree.

      I’m guessing getting middle class white people to vote D in places like PA, MI, WI, OH and MN is a little bit of a challenge for the D party right now…. or weren’t you paying attention like Hil in 2016.

    22. DRed

      Having so many home games is going to make the Knicks look better than we probably are, but wins are wins. If Frank can improve as the year goes on or we can flip one of our bigs for a better PG or wing player we might be able to be a playoff team.

    23. Zanzibar

      Since Trump has only been President for a year, I don’t think it is likely any “trump-ites” were up for re-election and were repudiated :-

      Turnout is usually higher for R’s in these elections so R’s should have done better versus what would be considered par for this type of election. These off-year elections typically only bring out the true believers (ie., Trump supporters) and your buddy Bannon had promised to deliver Virginia. R’s are lemmings who just vote for whoever the person is whose name is on the ballot with an “R” next to it. If you don’t believe me, just wait until December and watch all of the Trumpites who turn out for the crackpot in Alabama who wants to put gay people in the federal penitentiary.

    24. Frank O.

      Lesson #1 learned about this new Knicks regime and team:
      When the Knicks are down going into the 4th period, one can no longer go to bed in anticipation of a loss.

      For the second time in a few games, I gave up on the Knicks and they ended up playing inspired ball down the stretch to win.

      This is a team that actually knows how to win.

    25. Brian Cronin

      Didn’t realize the Knicks played 7 (17% of the total)home games already. What a weird schedule.

      It really doesn’t make any sense. They’re barely in the Garden in January. It’s so weird.

    26. Bruno Almeida

      @29

      That’s what I’m most happy about. When the first half ended I switched to the ending of Bucks and Cavs and was not even bothering going back to watching the Knicks, then I remember the Indiana game and thought well, let’s give it a chance. Boy did it pay off.

      McDermott, Kanter, O’Quinn and Porzingis are all over .600 ts% (McD with the crazy .664), McDermott is also 5th in minutes played.

      If Hardaway Jr. gets over his shooting funk / extremely poor shot selection, it will give some much needed help for KP. He doesn’t even have to shoot like a star, just a .560 ts% should be enough already.

      The fact that the defense has looked shaky as hell, specially with the starting lineup, doesn’t bother me so much because the Lance / Ntilikina / O’Quinn lineup has been insane the past games. The Knicks now have the option to sit Kanter or Jack or Hardaway / Lee if they need more defense.

    27. swiftandabundant

      I tell you what I really like. Horns willing to go with a different man/line up…ie, make an adjustment in order to get back into the game. I think Frank closing out might now be a thing but doing that in the Pacers game was a big move. As was putting in Lance over Beasley. And then last night going with McDermott more in the second half. It shows A) a coach who is willing to go with the hot hand and reward players instead of a coach who just sticks with his rotations no matter what and B) a team that is versatile and deep enough for the coach to do that. Need more defense? Go with Lance. Need some buckets? Go with Beasley. Will be interesting to see if Willie can get in on the action tonight.

    28. domiknick

      Before the season started I thought a defensive lineup of Frank, Lee, Dotson, Lance, KP could be quite intriguing.

    29. Farfa

      I honestly don’t care at all for wins or losses (even though I obviously root for them to win every game, I can’t help myself). Even if we ended the year 20-62 but showed all year the kind of fire we displayed last two games I’d be happy anyway. Let our young guys eat minutes!

    30. Ntilakilla

      Damn, KP was showing some crazy savvy in this game in the way he toyed with Howard on those foul calls. His mastering the art of the flop might be the clearest indication of his elevation to superstar god status.

    31. swiftandabundant

      @ 33 – you know, Jowles, I was a Melo defender, although I hated how Melo made you either a Melo hater or a Melo apologist. But damn it looks like we fleeced OKC on that trade. Two young rotation players who are decent, still have upside and are good at some very specific skills plus a high second round pick for a 33 year old declining All-Star? I mean, we kind of fleeced them badly.

      I will always contend that Melo in his prime was a hell of a player. And that if we hadn’t given up the farm to get him (i.e., if he just held firm in his want to come to the Knicks instead of opening the door to the Nets OR had just come here as a free agent)…we could have done something good with him or at least had more 50 plus win seasons. But we fucked up the Melo era big time. I’m hoping we’ve learned that lesson. Yes, you need superstars. But the way to build is through drafting. Get your superstar through the draft and hopefully at least 2 or 3 other good players that way. THEN once you get good, you can look to make that free agent signing or trade that puts you over the top.

    32. djphan

      how much better would our future and current outlook be if we just kept jerian grant? he’s in a bit of a shooting slump but it looks like he’s been making steady progress….

    33. chrisk06811

      The thing I love from the McBucket’s article in the News is this:

      They were killing us in the first half. So at the half, Lance gave a big speech, that we have to really lock in here and can’t allow that to happen,”

      I think we have, umm, leadership!!!

    34. Farfa

      Guys, I think we’re seeing what a superstar might be in KP, and for sure Melo has almost never been that while in a Knick jersey. That said, KP has to sustain this kind of production for him to be really called a superstar. I think anyway that we can safely assume there’s zero risk of him being superBargs (the thing I feared the most).

    35. Zanzibar

      Crap I just noticed Dotson’s an RFA this summer according to Spotrac. Didn’t we sign him for 3 years or I am I misremembering? If not that Baker contract was a major error taking cap which could have been used for Dotson. Here’s the Spotrac LINK

    36. Farfa

      @40

      The good thing about the last games is that you can almost taste the chemistry. And that started since Jack was inserted into the starting lineup. I don’t know how that’s possible, but it is what it is.

    37. Farfa

      BTW, we could have easily traded for Bledsoe (Kanter>Monroe), but I’m glad we didn’t. I want high character guys on this team.

    38. Frank

      Crap I just noticed Dotson’s an RFA this summer according to Spotrac. Didn’t we sign him for 3 years? Here’s the LINK

      No he is locked up for 3 years (with 3rd year a nonguarantee). From Bobby Marks:

      New York’s Damyean Dotson is the 4th player in the 2017 second round draft class to sign a contract for $1M plus. Wesley Iwundu (#33), Frank Mason (#34) and Semi Ojeleye (#37) will earn $1M+ in the first year. The contract for Dotson is guaranteed $1.1M in 2017-18 and $1.4M in 2018-19. The $1.6M salary in 2019-20 is non-guaranteed with trigger dates during the season to guarantee the salary.

    39. Jack Bauer

      I don’t hate on Melo, but he seems to be the exact same player he was with the Knicks even though he’s playing with better teammates. Olympic Melo is MIA. Did I mention that the Knicks have a better record than OKC at the moment? It’s early, but still….

      For me I am enjoying watching this team, which I haven’t been able to say for a while. I would rather they keep KOQ and establish some continuity and see where it goes for once. It’s a win win, either they keep playing well and they find out what they have and what is needed, or they start sucking and get a better draft pick. I am rooting for wins right now, but I’d like to see where they are in January, it could change.

    40. DRed

      It really doesn’t make any sense. They’re barely in the Garden in January. It’s so weird.

      Yeah, the way the season is looking Knicks fans are going to be feverishly potting laughably lopsided trades involving Willy that will get us into a title game and then we’ll lose a lot in January and people will freak the fuck out.

    41. er

      hmm….all this Melo talk right now is great. and now we fleeced okc? I guess ill talk about him all season. Thanks. Kanter was a key in the win yesterday by not playing. Mcbuckets was great.

    42. Frank

      Yeah Jared Dubin posted something about how they play 18 of 25 games on the road before the ASB or something close to that.

      Actually that is perfect – we will clearly separate out as a pretender or a real playoff contender (not title contender) during that stretch, and clarify whether we should be buyers, sitters, or sellers. Better to figure that out during a difficult stretch than an easy stretch during which we could falsely convince ourselves we’re better than we are.

    43. DRed

      Say things go well and we have a legit chance of being the 6 seed in a pack of decent east teams, I still say we should trade Kanter/OQuinn etc if possible because those guys are likely walking next season and we have a replacement on hand who is roughly as productive.

    44. Brian Cronin

      BTW, we could have easily traded for Bledsoe (Kanter>Monroe), but I’m glad we didn’t. I want high character guys on this team.

      As we discussed yesterday, I think Milwaukee’s willingness to move a first was more important than the player involved. And the Knicks should definitely not be trading first round picks right now.

    45. Brian Cronin

      Say things go well and we have a legit chance of being the 6 seed in a pack of decent east teams, I still say we should trade Kanter/OQuinn etc if possible because those guys are likely walking next season and we have a replacement on hand who is roughly as productive.

      Why do you think that Kanter is likely walking after this season? I’m not saying that you’re wrong, I just don’t know if I would hazard a guess either way at the moment (actually, sorry, since the default was “He’s not leaving,” I think I’m still leaning towards the default).

    46. swiftandabundant

      Yeah I mean I know a lot of this is just the whim of the moment but you have to ask if maybe the move is to try and keep Kanter and KQ and use Willie as a trade piece. Willie might net you a good wing or PG or a first round pick even. So much depends on Noah. I doubt he can ever be tradeable, but if he comes back and is good for us off the bench, it will open up more possibilities.

      Or maybe the move is to keep KQ and Willie and let Kanter go, hoping that Willie can grow into a Kanter type player but with better defense and passing.

      I don’t want to give up on Willie but this is exactly the conundrum that you find yourself in when you start winning games! You start to not want to trade any of your players cause you worry about chemistry and messing with what’s working but you also want to build on what you got going.

    47. Farfa

      BC, have you seen the protections on that pick? McDonough must be out of his mind. We could have done the same just staggering the numbers differently. Anyway I agree, no sense in trading firsts now. Unless you get a generational talent (which, with this KP, is not that unlikely. I can see a disgruntled superstar of two trying to play with him in the next few years – if this is really who he is).

    48. Hubert

      I was a Monk guy before the draft. I think he’s going to be really good. But nothing last night made me regret the Frank pick. I think we made the right choice.

    49. er

      I don’t want to give up on Willie but this is exactly the conundrum that you find yourself in when you start winning games! You start to not want to trade any of your players cause you worry about chemistry and messing with what’s working but you also want to build on what you got going.

      We are 6-4 not 16-4. I would get Kanter up outta here. He is the definition of Fools gold. Last night was a perfect example. Against good teams he just cant help you

    50. GoNyGoNyGo

      Interesting enough for players with >100 minutes, Frank leads the league in steals /36 and is 9th in assists/36 Pretty much a PG’s job description…. defend and expedite the offense.

      @18 – This. A guard that guards? A point guard that controls the flow of the game? Who came up with such a silly idea?

      It really doesn’t make any sense. They’re barely in the Garden in January. It’s so weird.

      @30 – It is strange. They said something about it on the post-game yesterday, that the Grammy’s are at MSG, but that’s just one night? Very weird but I like it. With a young team that has a bunch of new parts, it’s good to be at home early in the season. It’s easy to develop a winning attitude and chemistry. It’s also good for practices on off-days. So I’ll take 4 home games in January over 4 home games in November.

      Damn, KP was showing some crazy savvy in this game in the way he toyed with Howard on those foul calls. His mastering the art of the flop might be the clearest indication of his elevation to superstar god status.

      @37 – I didn’t see those as flops. Yes, he did a good job of acting, but Howard was really trying to manhandle KP. That led to KP going to the line and since Dwight had to push him around the perimeter, it opened up the lane and let our other bigs crash the boards.

      I think we have, umm, leadership!!!

      @40 – LT was injured last year. He’s looking great now and taken on that “leader” role.

    51. er

      I didn’t see those as flops. Yes, he did a good job of acting,

      Nah those were definitely flops. As soon as he felt pressure from Howard he went flying. He was playing the crowd like a fiddle lol

    52. d-mar

      January will be brutal (4 home, 12 away), but 6 of those road games are against Brooklyn, Miami, Dallas, Utah, Lakers and Phoenix. Not to say those are gimmes, but we may be able to tread water for a while.

    53. Hubert

      Out of curiosity- how many of us are still rooting a little for losses?

      It’s tough.

      I know this year’s draft if the best chance we’re going to have to add another impact player for a long time. And I know that this is exactly how Patrick Ewing ended up alone for so much of his career. And if you had asked me before the season what my ideal scenario would have been, I would have said we lose enough games for a top 3 pick.

      But I absolutely can’t root for losses now. Not even a little. This is fun AF.

    54. thenoblefacehumper

      The reason Willy should not be traded is he’s the only one of the bunch who’s cost-controlled for a while. It’s all about the win-curve; we are not anything close to a contender right now, and yet if we re-sign KOQ I’m guessing it’ll have to be for an amount that severely limits our flexibility.

      In other words, the team you see now will at least be close to the best it will ever be in the next 3-5 years. There is no argument to be made for that being a good idea. If Kanter can be moved or opts out, then maybe we can keep both KOQ and Willy. I don’t see that as likely though. Right now it seems that the optimal move is to cash in on KOQ and hope Willy can produce similarly.

    55. Zanzibar

      I still say we should trade Kanter/OQuinn etc if possible because those guys are likely walking next season and we have a replacement on hand who is roughly as productive.

      If KOQ is still putting up really nice advanced stats in February, I’d offer him a 3 year extension. He might take it since he’s from New York, likes the team, and did give us a break last time. Plus our offer would be higher than the MLE so he would have to get a longer deal or hope a team that’s got cap space would give him more money. If he won’t take the extension, I don’t think we’d get much in a trade because of the player option so I’d keep him because we would have bird rights this summer.

      Regarding Kanter, his WS/48 is .199 AND his bpm is 3.3 so far. If his bpm is 1.5+ I would keep him. Other than KP there aren’t any shot creators on this team.

      And there’s no guarantee Willy would be as productive as either of these guys like you wrote.

    56. DRed

      IF we make the playoffs (or even just miss) Kanter will have played a good part for a surprising Knicks team. He’ll get media attention. He might have to take a small AAV hit in exchange for another 3-4 year deal, but that’s something he’d probably be willing to do, so I think it makes the most sense for Enes to opt out. Would you rather have another year at 17 million or 3+1 at 60 million?

    57. Bruno Almeida

      @63

      Agree, pretty much this.

      I’m honestly rooting for whatever happens with this team, as long as they continue showing great signs. KP is beasting, the role players are stepping up big time and Frank looks legit. Those are the signs I wanted to see this season, increased development from KP and good minutes / promising performances from Frank and the role players.

      The only thing worrying me is THJr, in the sense that he looks like an odd man out on this roster. While everyone else is working within the system, he seems to be forcing his way into trying to score and it’s not working at all, he looks frustrated and angry all the time. If he finds a groove, attacks the basket more and settles less for those quick shot threes it will be an improvement. Maybe sitting him a bit in favor of Frank, McDermott and Lance would help him? I don’t know.

      The Willy situation still will take time. Let’s see how Kanter progresses and how things work out with O’Quinn.

    58. DRed

      I guess what I’m saying is that in the medium term there are good reasons to be more excited by this Knicks team than there have been for a long time. For this season, though, I’m still not sure. We could very easily be 4-6 right now. This particular team seems like it’s not bad, but it’s probably also not good (although there is some in-season upside).

    59. djphan

      i’m still rooting for losses…. even though seeing the team play well is good… but i’m more about sustainability… guys like kanter, jack et al.. are probably not going to be on this team next year let alone the next few…. so grabbing wins this year doesn’t really mean much unless you subscribe to the halo effect theory….

      the top of the draft is pretty stacked… the rest of the draft is pretty mediocre… so if we’re looking to actually be contenders at some point getting to the top of next year’s draft is the most viable path to get it… if not.. then we’re leaning on frank and wily to be those guys and that’s probably not a great bet…

    60. Brian Cronin

      I guess what I’m saying is that in the medium term there are good reasons to be more excited by this Knicks team than there have been for a long time. For this season, though, I’m still not sure. We could very easily be 4-6 right now. This particular team seems like it’s not bad, but it’s probably also not good (although there is some in-season upside).

      Before the season, we all talked about how bad the East looked, and I think that we’re seeing the effect of that. The East is so bad that some team is going to overachieve by beating up other East teams and hopefully it is this team!

    61. Ntilakilla

      One of the biggest indicators for me of how much KP has ascended to superstar status can be seen in how he scored 28 points in 29 minutes in a.) just 15 shots with just b.) 4 free throw attempts while c.) looking gassed at times and d.) then turning it on in the last two minutes of the game. He is making NBA scoring look easy…very, very easy.

    62. DRed

      Boston, Toronto and the Pistons all seem to be good teams. Philly, Orlando, the Knicks, Wizards, Charlotte, Indy and Miami seem decent. Maybe the Bucks too after this trade. And then you have the Cavs. Only the Bulls, Nets & Hawks seem legit bad.

    63. Ntilakilla

      but i’m more about sustainability… guys like kanter, jack et al.. are probably not going to be on this team next year let alone the next few

      Jack? Really? Jack? Kanter maybe. But Jack? Perhaps we shouldn’t fret about losing a 34-year-old guard with a 0.34 WS/48.

    64. Z-man

      The one-way narrative on Frank is irksome. He almost cost us the game last night with two bricks from 3 (one particularly ill-advised) and a predictable drive right into an offensive foul. His rookie counterpart, Malik Monk missed some wide-open looks late, but otherwise torched us.

      I’m fine with recognizing when he plays well, like I did when he played awesomely in the second half vs. Indiana. Last night he pretty much sucked and was bailed out by his teammates. DSjr had 22 points, 8 rebounds, 8 assists and 2 turnovers last night. Since he took 22 shots to get those 22 points, I wouldn’t call it a great game, even though it was against John Wall on the road. But it was way better than Frank’s.

    65. swiftandabundant

      @ 69- nah man. Saying stuff like “the top of the draft is stacked” is a super loaded thing to say bc you actually don’t know that. They could all turn out to be bad and there could be better players later in the draft. Look at KP’s class. The draft now gets hyped so much that every year people are like “oh man the top of the draft is so stacked!” But out of everyone in KP’s class at the top, really only KP and KAT look to be superstars or close to it at this point. There are some guys like Russell who are getting better. WCS, Mudiay, Winslow…all super touted…all just “meh” so far in their NBA careers. Okafor is a complete bust. Hejagomez hasn’t done much either. I’m not saying these players suck 3 years into their NBA careers. Most of them will continue to improve and be ok NBA players. But as far as stars, right now you can really only say that about KP and KAT.

      At the same time every year there are guys lower down who outperform their draft pick place very quickly and end up being the guys everyone wishes they had drafted.

      Plus yes, we won’t be able to keep all of Kanter, KQ, McDermott, etc. And replacing a Jarret Jack is not going to be hard. But we have Frank, Timmy, KP (and Dotson)…and that’s going to be the core we build around. I imagine if Willie isn’t used for a trade he will be the replacement for either Kanter or KQ. We will be able to replace dudes like Lee, LT, etc…easier now that we have a clear superstar on the team. And we still have our picks plus extra second rounders. We should be gunning for wins. Wins make it easier to attract talent and winning means you are playing a system and everyone knows their role, so its easier to plug new players into that.

    66. Ntilakilla

      Since he took 22 shots to get those 22 points, I wouldn’t call it a great game.

      That’s an understatement. I really wonder why Carlisle is letting him take so many shots? He normally runs a smarter offense than this. They must be in tank mode over there in Dallas.

      I’ll tell you what: if he takes 22 shots on this team our offense would have major problems.

    67. Brian Cronin

      in KP’s class at the top, really only KP and KAT look to be superstars

      Wait, so two of the top four picks look like superstars and you think that wasn’t a “stacked top of the draft?”

    68. DS

      The only thing worrying me is THJr, in the sense that he looks like an odd man out on this roster. While everyone else is working within the system, he seems to be forcing his way into trying to score and it’s not working at all, he looks frustrated and angry all the time. If he finds a groove, attacks the basket more and settles less for those quick shot threes it will be an improvement. Maybe sitting him a bit in favor of Frank, McDermott and Lance would help him? I don’t know.

      I thought THJr was terrible last night until I looked at his line: +5; 19 points on 14 shots (and that was with an unlucky four missed FT’s); a steal; and 5 rebounds. Not terrible.

    69. Ntilakilla

      Wait, so two of the top four picks look like superstars and you think that that’s not a “stacked top of the draft?”

      I think the point is that despite this relatively high success rate, 2 out 5 is still a crap shoot. I mean, would you have been happy as an organization if you tanked a whole season only to have a 60 percent chance of getting a Russell, Okafor, or Mudiay type player? If you already have that superstar talent, is that risk really worth it? Or do you just try to win out and look to supplement your team with a lower round talent who would be a good fit in your scheme?

    70. english_knick

      On wins versus tanking: players and coaches don’t tank, front offices do. Mills and perry have made a big thing about the culture, building in the right way – and the tonality around the future and KPs commitment is already turning in our favour. So I don’t think they can pull the plug now – play the young guys, let them take their knocks – it’s a long year and a soft early schedule so there’s plenty of time to get a proper read on things and pick a path in the new year. Until then we need to enjoy watching the team play hard and if that means wins, so be it.

    71. JK47

      The Knicks’ identity as a team is starting to crystallize. It’s a good offensive team at the moment, led by high-efficiency, high-volume monster KP and several other high eFG% players in Kanter, McDermott and O’Quinn. The Knicks subtracted low eFG% chuckers Melo and Rose from the offense, and the team eFG% has spiked. They’re 10th in the league in eFG%. They were 25th last year. Turnovers are worse than last year which was expected, but FT/FGA is up.

      The Knicks are a top ten offense right now. The defense is another story, that’s still a work in progress. Knicks have slid to #23 in defensive rating.

    72. Ntilakilla

      Knicks have slid to #23 in defensive rating.

      Starting Jarrett Jack and Enes Kanter will do that to your team.

    73. english_knick

      On the center position, this is a really tough one. The massive issue is Noah. Cap space is valuable. You can’t burn 20% of it on a coach/cheerleader. But we have. In that context I just can’t see how we can afford both KOQ and Kanter next season. If one of them assures the FO they will opt in or gives an indication they’ll take a big discount that changes things. But otherwise you have to plan for Willy to be a rotation piece alongside one of the other two because he is SOOOO much cheaper than they will be and we need better roster balance.

      Of course if you can trade Noah things change. I for one would consider Deng, whose contract is arguably more tradeable and who fits a roster need. He would also allow us to trade Lee, who you would think has value, for future assets. Then you can maybe wait out the other three Cs and assess at the end of the season.

    74. Brian Cronin

      I think the point is that despite this relatively high success rate, 2 out 5 is still a crap shoot. I mean, would you have been happy as an organization if you tanked a whole season only to have a 60 percent chance of getting an Okafor, Russell or Mudiay type player? If you already have that superstar talent, is that risk really worth it? Or do you just try to win out and look to supplement your team with a lower round talent who would be a good fit in your scheme?

      That is a point, but it wasn’t the point expressed, which was “you never know if the top of a draft is really loaded or not,” when clearly we do know and the top of the 2018 draft is clearly loaded. Doesn’t mean you scuttle a team that is doing well to get there, but it does mean that the top of the draft is loaded, just like the top of the 2015 draft was loaded and the top of the 2017 draft was loaded.

    75. DRed

      I’m willing to go all in on Doncic being a very good NBA player if he has good health, but I don’t know how you’d forecast all the NCAA guys at this point.

    76. Brian Cronin

      I’m willing to go all in on Doncic being a very good NBA player if he has good health, but I don’t know how you’d forecast all the NCAA guys at this point.

      There’s so many of them that you only need a couple of them to work out for it to be a loaded top of the draft. And that doesn’t even account for guys we’re not talking about now making their move during the season, like Embiid back in 2014, where he came out of nowhere to be probably the top player in that draft (if not for his injury).

    77. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      The idea of tanking this season should be conceptualized as maximizing ones chances at Luka Doncic, who, no joke, looks like the best prospect since AD or maybe even Lebron. He is that productive in Europe. All the other guys pale in comparison at this juncture.

    78. mase

      Here is the real question regarding 2015 draft, if you could choose all over again, would u pick KAT over KP?

      I wouldn’t

    79. nicos

      Since he took 22 shots to get those 22 points, I wouldn’t call it a great game.

      That’s an understatement. I really wonder why Carlisle is letting him take so many shots? He normally runs a smarter offense than this. They must be in tank mode over there in Dallas.

      I’ll tell you what: if he takes 22 shots on this team our offense would have major problems.

      They’re both less than a month into their careers so who knows either way. That said, Smith Jr. has far, far more potential to sabotage his team for years though I still think his absolute ceiling is higher than Frank’s. At worst is Frank is Michael Carter-Williams part two which won’t kill you because you won’t be tempted to turn your offense over to him or pay him a ton of money because of pointz. Smith Jr. could realize 85% of his talent and still hurt the team by being Marbury part two.

    80. Ntilakilla

      It’s just, to me, the word “loaded” is a loaded term. When people say “loaded” in reference to drafts like the 2015 NBA draft they are saying that you have a 2 out 10 shot of getting an all-star caliber talent (KP and KAT) in the top 10. The flip side is never discussed, which is that you have a 4 out of 10 chance of getting a sub .050 WS/48 player like Russell, Okafor, Hezonja, or Mudiay; a 3 out of 10 sub .100 WS/48 player like Kaminsky, Winslow and Johnson; a 1 out of 10 chance of getting a plus .100 WS/48 role player like Cauley-Stein.

      Consider that in the 10-20 range you had Myles Turner and Devin Booker along with other intriguing prospects like Kelly Oubre and Terry Rozier to choose from. Is tanking to a top 10 pick vs. playing to contention and falling in the middle of the first round in the 10-20 range really worth the effort of demoralizing your franchise and its fanbase in an orchestrated tank?

    81. Zanzibar

      Why not just keep Enes, Willy and KOQ until the end of this season? Like I wrote, KOQ might agree to a reasonable extension toward the end of this season and if he doesn’t we will have bird rights and may be able to re-sign him this summer if the price is not too exorbitant. No need to rush to trade him for 2nd round pick because what team is gonna give more for a guy it may not be able to re-sign? If Enes opts out and gets a huge offer, let him leave and keep Willy. We probably aren’t getting anything for him by the trade deadline given his salary and player option. Maybe Enes will opt in and take a reasonable extension? If so and he’s playing well then maybe we look to trade Willy. We’ll also have a better read at the end of the season on Noah’s health and productivity.

      Once all of that happens, we’ll have more info to act. If you game it out, I think just chilling makes the most sense.

    82. Frank

      weird i just submitted a long post and it isn’t showing up, and says duplicate comment when i try to do it again.

    83. Frank

      The one-way narrative on Frank is irksome. He almost cost us the game last night with two bricks from 3 (one particularly ill-advised) and a predictable drive right into an offensive foul. His rookie counterpart, Malik Monk missed some wide-open looks late, but otherwise torched us.

      I know you’re pretty invested in the anti-Frank narrative, but in spite of him missing a few shots (how could any good NBA player ever miss any shots?! We should cut him!), he again had a +11 in just 26 minutes. He currently has the best net rating (+13) on the team — yes, better than Porzingis (+11). The offense’s eFG is 58.1% when he’s on the floor – last time I checked, that’s really really good — and that’s in spite of him only playing ~1/3 of his minutes with KP on the floor (54 minutes with KP out of 156 total minutes). When Ntilikina is OFF the floor, the team’s eFG is only 49.8%. The opposing offense has an eFG of 52.2% when Frank is OFF the floor, but that drops to 48.7% when he is ON the court. Remember, he only plays with the team’s best player 1/3 of the time, and his most common lineups include Beasley and McDermott, two notoriously awful defenders.

      Yes he had a bad turnover last night and missed a couple shots, but the package is a guy who makes winning plays – by creating havoc on the defensive end, and getting the ball to the right players in the right places on offense.

    84. Ntilakilla

      That said, Smith Jr. has far, far more potential to sabotage his team for years though I still think his absolute ceiling is higher than Frank’s.

      Very interesting point, Nicos. I suppose the question is how one measures absolute ceiling. If you put emphasis on volume scoring, then I suppose his ceiling is higher but I don’t. In fact, I think there is a glut of volume scoring guards in the NBA and that inflation has diminished their potential value (ceiling). The type of player Frank projects to be at his ceiling – an efficient two way pure point guard who can guard both backcourt positions – is a far rarer and more valuable commodity.

    85. Ntilakilla

      Smith Jr. could realize 85% of his talent and still hurt the team by being Marbury part two.

      Also, a great point.

    86. swiftandabundant

      @ 95 – I agree. I know people on this site make fun of “pointz” but guards who can score are a dime a dozen in this league. A player who can really control the tempo of the game, set teammates up and play lockdown defense with high ball IQ is much more valuable. Also, that type of player can have a much longer career and still be contributing to wining basketball in his mid or even late 30s.

    87. Frank O.

      ah hahahahahaha!

      The result was a third straight loss for the Thunder (4-6) as its trio of stars — Westbrook, Paul George and Carmelo Anthony — combined to go 15-for-54 from the field.

      “This is all new to everybody, new situations for everybody,” said Anthony, who along with George joined the team this summer. “Even though we losing games, I think it’s more of lessons being learned than actually losing the game.

      “So right now, we’re learning a lesson in these last couple games.”

      Melo, explaining, as he has for several years now, why his team is sucking right now…

    88. Brian Cronin

      weird i just submitted a long post and it isn’t showing up, and says duplicate comment when i try to do it again.

      It was caught by the spam filter for some reason. I dunno why. I went in and got it back for ya!

    89. djphan

      the 2015 draft was loaded in the sense that it had cornerstone players and had above average prospects deep into the draft…. the way it has shaken out hasn’t exactly been out of the norm but you had your usual overrated prospects(hezonja, okafor et al)… that predictably failed to live up to expectations that some pundits were going gaga over…

      last year’s draft will prove to be very good… it’s early and it was really guard heavy so it’s going to take awhile for it to shake out… but i have no doubt that a few of those guys will wind up replacing the old guard at pg…. and tatum looks to be the actual best player….

      the 2018 draft is top heavy… luka looks for sure to be a generational talent… and we’ll see on the other guys but upper echelon consensus type of hs prospects usually deliver and bagley, porter, ayton and bamba are those types…. everyone else being talked are returning prospects and most of them are very lackluster judging by the numbers….

      so we can def get someone useful in the teens… but getting doncic, bagley or porter is not like waiting for okafor or even like russell or even guys like fox… those guys were more like B to A- prospects… doncic is a AAA prospect and porter and bagley are talked about to be roughly A level prospects also… and that’s a good reason to try and get them….

    90. swiftandabundant

      Tank away if you really suck with no superstar in the making. My point is that we are past that. So the idea that we should tank to get a top 5 pick is A) unrealistic bc KP has taken a big jump and B) counterproductive. If you suck so bad you are good enough to get a top 5 or top 3 pick, then by that definition you probably don’t have a superstar in the making unless its like their rookie year. In which case you should just play well and let the chips fall where they may. There is talent everywhere in the draft every year. And guys who are busts relative to their draft position every year.

      Once you get that superstar player, its better to try and win with them. That doesn’t mean signing over priced win now free agents. You still want to build relative to that superstar’s timeline. But tanking to try and pair them with another lottery pick superstar is dumb. And we’ve all ready paired him with what will most likely be a very good starting PG caliber type player. Frank may not be a star but he has the makings of an excellent starting PG and perfect ying to Zinger’s yang. We tanked 2 seasons and got KP and Frank. Time to build.

    91. Frank O.

      Small sample, but still…having fun.

      Melo sporting a .526 TS%
      .480 eFG%
      and 27.8 usage
      PER of 16.9

      Conversely,
      KP sporting a .607 TS%
      .556 eFG%
      35.6 usage
      PER of 29.1

    92. ClashFan

      When I watch the Knicks play, I always root for them to win. However, losses don’t bother me as long as young guys are getting to play and the team plays hard.

      The 6-4 start is fun, and who knows, maybe they’ll sustain it. If so, I hope it is while playing young guys and still looking to pick up picks and/or players under 25 with some upside. As someone noted earlier, the team could easily be 4-6 right now.

      However, it is still so early in the season, and there could be several ebbs and flows to it.

      As for trades, well, it always depends on what you got. There’s no rush. Certainly if some team were willing to deal a first rounder and expiring(s) for an OQ or Lee, you jump at it. LT has been very useful in the past two games, but I wouldn’t hesitate to deal him if getting a 2nd rounder and a contract no longer than his. Unless you get something very special for Willy, don’t trade him.

      What might push the Knicks into an early bad deal is Noah coming off the books. If no decent deal can be swung for Kuz or someone, then cut a vet. Eat the salary, so Sessions or Beasley should go. But, at some point, the glut of centers needs to be trimmed a bit b/c I don’t want to see Willy just sit the entire year.

    93. Ntilakilla

      As someone noted earlier, the team could easily be 4-6 right now.

      It could also be 7-3 now if we won the Pistons game.

    94. ClashFan

      Woops, in my earlier post I mentioned Noah “coming off the books.” I mean, coming off the suspension. Sadly, he’s not coming off the books in the near future.

      Also, any excitement about Westchester off to such a good start?

    95. DRed

      It could also be 7-3 now if we won the Pistons game.

      Sure, and we’d still be a team that could easily be 4-6, because we haven’t played that well overall

    96. alsep73

      @NYPost_Berman 38s38 seconds ago

      KP6 questionable with bruised elbow. More likely tough back to back.

      Given the back to back, third game in four night, etc., maybe better to just sit KP and see what the team looks like without him on a night we might struggle to win even with him.

    97. ClashFan

      @107
      Yeah, how many games will you get whipped for 3 quarters and then have a massive 4th to get the win? Hey, if they can keep doing it, so be it.

      The Pistons game was more of a tale of two halves. The Knicks were up 21 in the 2nd quarter, I believe, and then the Pistons dominated the entire 2nd half. Seems a lot less flukey.

      At any rate, my point is just that it is way too early to tell what this team is. Hopefully it will be fun to find out.

    98. Bruno Almeida

      If you only focus on the negative aspects of rookie performance you honestly miss the bigger points. That’s the issue when you’re invested in one point of view and disregard the others. Like Frank said, Ntilikina has been a huge positive to this team in terms of performance on the court even with his bad shooting numbers and rookie mistakes (and being allergic to driving).

      By on/off ratings, Ntilikina has been a huge positive (+13) while Smith has been a net negative (-3.3).

      Individual production obviously matters, but ultimately one is making his team better by being on the court and the other is making it worse, and thats with very poor guards in both teams as their alternatives. They’re both super young and have a lot of room to grow, but if we’re talking current impact, it’s been quite clear.

    99. swiftandabundant

      Its only 2 games where we came back to win in the 4th. And its not like we were getting destroyed. In both games it never got past 20 and most of the time we were down by like 10 to 16, which is not THAT much. Our other wins were easier wins for us.

      The goal posts are moving a bit for some people. Before the season people looked at the first ten games and thought we’d be lucky to go 2-8. Indiana and Charlotte were considered hard teams for us as they are most likely playoff teams in the east. Now people are saying oh but we had to come back to beat them and they aren’t that good.

    100. ClashFan

      Well, if KP doesn’t play tonight, how about activating Kuz and letting him get some decent minutes vs. Beasley? Please?
      :-)

    101. Owen

      It’s really fun watching what’s happening in OKC. The Melo-schaden was easy to predict and is easy to enjoy. Obviously, they figure things out. Too many talented pieces there for them to be a total train wreck. But as a stat nerd, it really is a glorious experiment. It’s like the basketball version of the Large Hadron Collider.

    102. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      bobneptune,

      I know you get this, but most people don’t understand what’s going on in the republican party because the media doesn’t quite grasp it or report on it accurately. They all see Trump as a republican because he ran under the republican banner. They don’t understand that the republican party is in the middle of gigantic war for its soul.

      Trump has almost nothing in common with the free trade, open border, overseas intervention establishment republicans and neocons that have been in power in that party. That’s why he’s having so much trouble getting anything passed.

      The democrats hate him.
      The media hates him.
      The establishment republicans hate him.

      The only people that love him are former union workers, people impacted by immigration and free trade deals etc…

      If the republicans put up an establishment republican for anything, that person is dead meat, but it has nothing to do with Trump. All of those former democrats that shifted to Trump’s populism and “MAGA” want nothing to do with establishment republicans. They are attracted to Trump’s populist message for the same reason they were attracted to a socialist like Bernie. It’s because they are hurting. The question is where are the republicans going.

    103. DRed

      DRed
      November 8, 2017 at 12:59 pm
      We should give KP the night off tonight.

      Wow looks like the Knicks are finally starting to listen to me.

    104. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      It’s really fun watching what’s happening in OKC. The Melo-schaden was easy to predict and is easy to enjoy. Obviously, they figure things out. Too many talented pieces there for them to be a total train wreck. But as a stat nerd, it really is a glorious experiment. It’s like the basketball version of the Large Hadron Collider.

      I’m not sure I understand what you are saying.

      The Miami Heat were terrible when they first got together (they played .500 ball for awhile) and then figured it out. No one thinks the OKC big 3 are anywhere near as good as the Heat big 3, but if you concede they will figure it out, then what are you saying about stats?

      If they play .525 – .550 ball in the second half that’s saying something.

      If they play better than .600 ball in the 2nd half, they are a very good team meeting the expectations of people that think they are going to be very good.

    105. Owen

      What I mean is that putting three guys together whose combined usage rate was 97 last year is just downright interesting as a basketball physics proposition.

    106. Ntilakilla

      Sure, and we’d still be a team that could easily be 4-6, because we haven’t played that well overall

      I wonder what our metrics are in the last 7 games.

    107. lavor postell

      I just clipped 3 god awful plays down the stretch of the game last night from Melo. OKC will be better than whatever that was last night, but at some point if the guy won’t change the shots he takes and can’t move at all on defense there’s a cap on where your team can and will go.

      https://streamable.com/7gprn

      Felton and Grant run a high PnR and for some reason instead of clearing out to the corner to space out Melo, just posts up at the low block and cuts off Felton’s path to the rim. Felton ends up with a typically crappy mid-range J

      https://streamable.com/xlsad

      Tries to pressure a pass to Fox, a complete non-shooter, and gets beat with ease on a back cut and doesn’t contest at the rim

      https://streamable.com/cixch

      Down 6 with a little over a minute left Melo catches the ball out in the corner, jab steps and launches a long 2. Brick.

    108. Ntilakilla

      +/- numbers don’t really give accurate pictures in whole seasons let alone 100 minutes….

      Maybe not, but you can’t deny we’ve been better with Frank on the floor than without him.

    109. Z-man

      @94 Nonsense, Frank, and it’s actually the opposite that’s true. You’re so invested in the pro-Frank narrative that you minimize anything negative he does and exaggerate anything positive. (And I don’t understand why you made it personal in the first place, that’s not like you). I’m not invested at all in being anti-Frank. I’m a Knicks fan first and foremost and on this site I try to call ’em as I see ’em. I’ve been dead wrong about lots of things on this site over the years (although not nearly as many times as you’ve been dead wrong, I would venture to guess…how many times has Jowles made sport of your woeful gaffes?) and have no problem with people calling me out and having fun with it when I am, so long as they do so objectively. That’s not what you did here. If any other highly-touted rookie on any other team posted the line Frank did last night or played how he did, especially in crunch time, I doubt that you or anyone here would be on an hallucinogenic vision quest for silver linings like you were in your bullshit post. And if Ntilikina posted DSjr’s line from last night’s game, or if DSjr was drafted by the knicks and posted that line, you would surely have spun it as evidence of future greatness…”If he only converted just one more 2 and one more 3-pointer, he’d have 27 pts on 22 shots shooting 50% from 2 and 40% from 3, and in any case had a near triple-double with only 2 turnovers and 1 foul in a +15 vs. a top-3 PG in a road win! He’s a future HOFer!”

      Please.

    110. lavor postell

      If you’re watching these games and come out thinking Frank doesn’t look good because, shock, horror, he’s struggling to create his own offense maybe you need to get a new hobby. His vision out of PnR and his defensive pressure at the point of attack is a zillion times better than any Knick guard in this millenium. On top of that he just closed 2 straight games in which he was a key player in orchestrating a double digit comeback.

      Enjoy that like most Knicks fans are.

    111. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      What I mean is that putting three guys together whose combined usage rate was 97 last year is just downright interesting as a basketball physics proposition.

      Totally agree.

    112. Z-man

      Maybe not, but you can’t deny we’ve been better with Frank on the floor than without him.

      But you can deny that Ntilikina had anything to do with us being better on the floor last night when he was out there. He was out there with McDermott, Lance, O’Q and then KP, all of whom bailed him out time and time again when he screwed up.

    113. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      I still think Frank at a minimum will be a very good spot up shooter, excellent defender, and very good playmaker, but not a big scorer. I don’t think he’ll ever have the extreme quickness and athleticism of some of the other PGs. So I don’t think he’ll ever be a top scorer, but if he gets a little quicker and can start creating his own shot off the dribble, he’s going to be a solid 2-way star.

    114. Ntilakilla

      But you can deny that Ntilikina had anything to do with us being better on the floor last night when he was out there.

      Actually, I thought he ran the offense well at times getting the ball to the right people and defended the high screen that was killing us most of the night with Thomas very well. But he didn’t fill up a box score so I imagine you can’t be too pleased with his performance.

    115. Z-man

      If you’re watching these games and come out thinking Frank doesn’t look good because, shock, horror, he’s struggling to create his own offense maybe you need to get a new hobby. His vision out of PnR and his defensive pressure at the point of attack is a zillion times better than any Knick guard in this millenium. On top of that he just closed 2 straight games in which he was a key player in orchestrating a double digit comeback.

      Enjoy that like most Knicks fans are.

      Thanks for the lecture. Obviously you represent “most” Knicks fans, so I should listen to you. Any other life pointers, O wise one?

    116. lavor postell

      I still think Frank at a minimum will be a very good spot up shooter, excellent defender, and very good playmaker, but not a big scorer. If he gets a little quicker and can start creating his own shot off the dribble, he’s going to be a star.

      Agree

      Thanks for the lecture. Obviously you represent “most” Knicks fans, so I should listen to you. Any other life pointers, O wise one?

      Yeah, I think I represent most Knicks fans that are happy about what they’ve seen from Frank while understanding he has significant steps to make in his development moving forward. I guess that’s a life tip for you or something.

    117. Ntilakilla

      And if Ntilikina posted DSjr’s line from last night’s game, or if DSjr was drafted by the knicks and posted that line, you would surely have spun it as evidence of future greatness…

      Actually, the reason we like Frank is because he isn’t the type of point guard who would put up DSJ’s line. If he were to have scored 22 points on 22 chucked shots in this type of offense you can believe people here would have a problem with it just like we called out Derrick Rose for the same shit when he was our PG last year.

    118. Z-man

      I agree that he is a difference-maker on defense, but he could have done that as a 2. He also had 8 assists, which he also could have done as a 2 (see: Courtney Lee.) As such, I disagree that he did a good job in “running the offense.” If by that you mean that he deferred to others, well, other than the two bricked 3’s and offensive foul, then OK, he ran the offense well by staying out of the way most of the time. But by NBA PG standards, he had a horrible game on the offensive end.

    119. DRed

      When we were winning more games than our performance suggested I spent plenty of time here arguing with people who said Derrick Rose was beneficial. If the Mavs were 6-4 and DSJ was playing the same way he is now people would be hyping him

    120. Z-man

      @134, which is why I didn’t come on here and rave about his performance or spin and make excuses about him. I said that despite his rebounds and assists, he shot piss-poorly and therefore had a mediocre game overall, despite his +15. Why is it so hard for people do that here?

    121. Ntilakilla

      He also had 8 assists, which he also could have done as a 2 (see: Courtney Lee.)

      Shit, he could have done at the 5 too since any position player can collect an assist. So what is your point?

    122. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      Given that Frank is 19 and may not peak for another 8 years, I suspect we have a lot of debates to look forward to for at least another few years. :-)

    123. Cock Jowles, #1 All-Rookie Benchwarmer

      It’s funny how we can’t come to consensus on Carmelo despite tens of thousands of minutes of evidence, yet people take 156 minutes of Frank Ntilikina and label him a future megamax player or the chosen one who’ll replace Bargnani as “worst player to ever don a Knicks uni.”

      He’s made five 3PT shots so far. Stop. Please.

    124. nicos

      Very interesting point, Nicos. I suppose the question is how one measures ceiling. If you put emphasis on volume scoring, then I suppose his ceiling is higher but I don’t. In fact, I think there is a glut of volume scoring guards in the NBA and that inflation has diminished their potential value (ceiling). The type of player Frank projects to be at his ceiling – an efficient two way pure point guard who can guard both backcourt positions – is a far rarer and more valuable commodity.

      Yeah, I just think individual offense (meaning a guy who can create good shots for himself and others by himself) trumps individual defense. Frank’s DBPM dropped into the negatives last night mainly because Charlotte set good screens and the Knicks’ bigs didn’t get out on shooters. He also got lost a few times and got burned while over-helping but the fact is one guy can’t turn a defense around by himself. Good teams these days will just screen and re-screen until they get match-up they can exploit. I love the fact that we have plus defense at the point of attack and it’s certainly very valuable but I think Isaiah Thomas brings more value than Patrick Beverly (though I could be wrong!). I think Smith can be an okay defender- he’s a pretty good rebounder, got a fair number of steals in college, and is strong enough that he won’t get totally abused by twos. Can be certainly isn’t will be but we’re talking absolute ceilings. And I think he can be healthy DRose with a three point shot and better playmaking skills on offense (or a turbo charged Isaiah Thomas who’s decent on D). That’s a superstar. Frank would need to get a full step quicker (or become an absurdly good shooter) to get to that level.

      That said, I wouldn’t trade Frank for Smith right now- I wanted Smith in the draft because the Knicks have been so talent starved that I thought swinging for the fences was the best bet. But KP has been so good that the surer thing (Frank) would be a…

    125. Ntilakilla

      If the Mavs were 6-4 and DSJ was playing the same way he is now people would be hyping him

      But the Mavs are 2-10 and its largely because DSJ hasn’t been very good in his assignments.

    126. er

      I think Frank may be better as a 2 simply because having 2 ball handlers on the court is always a good thing.

    127. Ntilakilla

      I love the fact that we have plus defense at the point of attack and it’s certainly very valuable but I think Isaiah Thomas brings more value than Patrick Beverly (though I could be wrong!).

      You think Patrick Beverly is Frank’s ceiling? Frank has a 30+ AST%. Beverly’s a career 17.3 AST% point guard.

    128. Ntilakilla

      It’s funny how we can’t come to consensus on Carmelo despite tens of thousands of minutes of evidence,

      Oh, there is a consensus. It’s just that he has very loyal defenders and they are a vocal minority.

    129. ILoveHatetheKnicks

      My only concern with Frank is that he appears to have a timid nature about him and that tends to show on the court. All his obvious flaws can be improved upon with hard work and as he continues to grow into his body and gets stronger. But he hasn’t yet shown enough of the aggression that may be required to reach his ceiling. He’s still only 19 though, so I’m hopeful. I was actually glad he took those two threes he missed. It showed some assertiveness. He looked very mechanical on his drive that he got called for an offensive foul, but again, glad he attempted to put pressure on the defense by driving. It sounds like the coaching staff and his teammates are also encouraging him to look for his shot, so hopefully he gets more comfident with his abilities and a little more consistent as the season progresses.

    130. Totes McGoats Makes 18mil For 14ppg

      Nigel Hayes is still on my radar as a Draymond Green clone. He had a huge game for Westchester, and if he’s smart- he’ll pattern his playing style after Draymond. He’s certainly got the talent to do it. It would be nice to have a jack of all trades defender on the roster. Maybe at some point he can replace Lance..that would be nice- I think.

    131. Z-man

      I’m not labeling him a bust. At this point, I’m just commenting on his performance game by game and not making any assumptions about the future, other than that I continue have serious concerns about whether he will evolve into a plus PG on the offensive end…not based solely on how he has played thus far but on his game film and analysis by respected analysts like Schmitz. There are others who think he will blossom, and maybe he will. But until he does, let’s all tell it like it is, like we do for every other guy on the roster no matter what age he is. When he plays well like he did vs. Indiana, let’s say it. When he doesn’t, let’s say that too.

      For the 1000th time, I am NOT saying that because he has played poorly on the offensive end so far (and there’s absolutely no disputing that, right?) that he will NEVER get better, or be good, or be great. I’d be thrilled if he evolves into Le Glove. But people here are so hypersensitive to any criticism of Frank that they will jump to the conclusion that I hate the guy and am hoping that he fails miserably just to be right, when I’ve never given two shits about being wrong in the past and taking heat for it.

    132. Z-man

      But the Mavs are 2-10 and its largely because DSJ hasn’t been very good in his assignments.

      True. He’s been largely thrown out there and played regardless of how poorly he’s playing. Last night was a good step for him in a Kemba/Kyrie direction, but overall he has sucked.

    133. ClashFan

      I really could care less about DSJ. I really wouldn’t have cared much about Melo except that he made what I consider to be a snide parting remark with leaving “hell” behind or some such thing when whatever “hell” he left was at least part of his own making. Still, the season is so very young and all may turn out just fine in OKC.

      But why not be enthusiastic about and encouraged by Frank? He’s young, talented, and may very well turn out to be special. Even now, he’s a good defender and is (to a fault even) trying real hard to run a good offense and get others involved. He appears to have excellent court vision. Even last night I think he was a net positive b/c of his on ball defense and willingness to fight around screens, etc. The scoring may or may not come soon, but that’s not anything to fret about at this time.

      I said last year before the draft that I was intrigued by Frank b/c it was so sickening to see awful Knick PGs not play defense. After Calderon and the Rose… ugh. Frank is so much more encouraging to see.

    134. bobneptune

      It’s like the basketball version of the Large Hadron Collider.

      So much this! You win the Interwebz analogy of the day award my friend.

    135. djphan

      i think a lot of ppl are seeing flashes and seeing those as repeatable things with frank… this happens a lot with prospects… flashes get overweighted in small samples…

      so yeah.. frank’s done some nice things… hit some big 3s… and makes the right passes and has nice defense… but where ppl are seeing greatness… he’s still shooting 3s at a 23% clip… he’s turning the ball over 4times and 5.5 fouls per 36… that’s not exactly playing well and hence why his ws48 is negative….

      so no … on the whole… he’s not playing well…. a lot of those things aren’t huge concerns…. fouling and turning the ball over isn’t that big of a deal in the long run… and there’s some nice things he’s doing but over time the bad stuff will be more part of the sample than the flashes and we’ll reach a more accurate picture of his play… but right now ppl are getting excited for all the wrong reasons….

    136. bidiong

      Nobody knows how Frank or KP are going to be in a year from now. We could be looking at complete fools gold right now.

      However it seems KP is making the leap and for the second youngest player in the league I think we can say he’s playing about as well as anyone could expect by this point.

    137. Ntilakilla

      But people here are so hypersensitive to any criticism of Frank that they will jump to the conclusion that I hate the guy and am hoping that he fails miserably just to be right, when I’ve never given two shits about being wrong in the past and taking heat for it.

      I personally think you’re the one who’s being hypersensitive. We all admit that he didn’t have a particularly good game in terms of shooting the ball or even shutting down opposing defenders one on one. But we do reserve the right to credit him for being a part of another 4th quarter comeback against a comparable team, don’t we? If you’re going to shit on his boxscore without that context, we do reserve the right to mention that his +/- was 2nd best on the team, that he wasn’t exploited defensively during that run, and that he made some smart choices about who he delivered the ball too, no?

    138. Owen

      https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/11/8/16624378/kristaps-porzingis-new-york-knicks-amazing-season

      Every basket he scores, every shot he throws back, is a reminder of how close the Knicks were to repeating past mistakes. It felt as if the team was on the brink of catastrophe. The highest draft selection since Patrick Ewing, the most talented young player in the franchise’s modern history, and the Knicks were exploring trading him. Some would like to move past this fact. I never will. This near-franchise-altering idiocy must never be forgotten, lest it happen again. Phil Jackson was looking to trade Kristaps Porzingis, who has top-five talent and is the only player in NBA history to score 40 points with two made 3s and six blocks, because he skipped a meeting. I guess. And didn’t want to play the triangle. Jackson stans might say, “Well, he has to listen to trade calls. That’s his job.” The entire point of player acquisition—through the draft, trades, and free agency—is to land someone who you can build a title team around. That’s the job. To get a player like Kristaps. Phil, an 11-time champion as a coach, losing that power struggle is the single most positive sign of the Dolan era.

    139. Cock Jowles, #1 All-Rookie Benchwarmer

      But people here are so hypersensitive to any criticism of Frank that they will jump to the conclusion that I hate the guy and am hoping that he fails miserably just to be right, when I’ve never given two shits about being wrong in the past and taking heat for it.

      I’ll go on record as saying that I have absolutely no fucking clue whether he’ll be any good. He’s been so bad on offense that he’d have to truly be Le Glove to be even a decent bench player, but 156 minutes is not enough to make a wise evaluation.

      He’s locked up for multiple years. Until the Knicks refuse to include him as the centerpiece in a trade for Anthony Davis, or they proactively offer him a $100M extension after 300 MP, let’s all chill a bit. He’s not going anywhere. Be agnostic on this, regardless of which side you’re on.

    140. bobneptune

      @134, which is why I didn’t come on here and rave about his performance or spin and make excuses about him. I said that despite his rebounds and assists, he shot piss-poorly and therefore had a mediocre game overall, despite his +15. Why is it so hard for people do that here?

      Because a point guard who played outstanding defense logged 8 assists in 26 minutes v 3 TO’s and orchestrated the offense unselfishly (both his missed 3’s were good looks) through a huge comeback and was +11 in +/- didn’t have a shitty game because he missed 4 shots for the game. Sorry

    141. nicos

      You think Patrick Beverly is Frank’s ceiling? Frank has a 30+ AST%. Beverly’s a career 17.3 AST% point guard.

      Oh no, I was just making the point that individual offense trumps individual defense. Beverly is at least close to as good on defense as Thomas is on offense and a better offensive player than Thomas is on defense but I’d rather have peak Thomas on my team. I think Frank can (and probably will) be all-defense level good like Beverly. I don’t see him being in defensive player of the year conversations like Kawhi though unless he shows another level athletically. And offensively, being a point who’s not great at breaking down defenses off of the dribble is going to limit his ceiling. I think he can be really, really good but I don’t think he can be the best player on a contending team whereas Smith (if everything breaks just right) could be. As I said, if everything doesn’t break just right for Smith he could keep you mired in mediocrity for years. So much higher risk with a small (and maybe minuscule) window of higher reward.

    142. Darrell H.

      I’ll go on record as saying that I have absolutely no fucking clue whether he’ll be any good. He’s been so bad on offense that he’d have to truly be Le Glove to be even a decent bench player, but 156 minutes is not enough to make a wise evaluation.

      He’s locked up for multiple years. Until the Knicks refuse to include him as the centerpiece in a trade for Anthony Davis, or they proactively offer him a $100M extension after 300 MP, let’s all chill a bit. He’s not going anywhere. Be agnostic on this, regardless of which side you’re on.

      For the love of ___, you are one bipolar mofo. How can someone that is such a troll 90% of the time say smart shit like that?

    143. nicos

      Because a point guard who played outstanding defense logged 8 assists in 26 minutes v 3 TO’s and orchestrated the offense unselfishly (both his missed 3’s were good looks) through a huge comeback and was +11 in +/- didn’t have a shitty game because he missed 4 shots for the game. Sorry

      But he really didn’t play outstanding defense- for the game he was at best okay. His defense on Monk in the first half was pretty poor. He did do a nice job down the stretch defensively but his defense was part of the reason the Knicks were behind in the first place. Offensively he got bailed out on both KP’s go ahead three and his scoop lay-up. Both those possessions were going absolutely nowhere late in the shot clock. He did have a really nice play hitting KOQ for a dunk while trapped in the corner but he really had almost nothing to do with the comeback offensively other than not turning the ball over.

    144. bobneptune

      I’ll go on record as saying that I have absolutely no fucking clue whether he’ll be any good. He’s been so bad on offense that he’d have to truly be Le Glove to be even a decent bench player, but 156 minutes is not enough to make a wise evaluation.

      Has he been bad on offense or bad on scoring? The offense has been functioning very well under the 19 year old neophyte’s stewardship and his defense has been world class. Of players with >100 minutes he is 9th in the entire NBA in assists/36 and 1st in steals /36. I thought the primary jobs of the point guard was to run the offense, get the ball to the right people in the right spots, make the players around him better and to play defense. I think he’s doing a pretty good job overall under the circumstances. Cuban’s douchbaggery makes me root for him harder.

      I’m not exactly sure what you guys expect from a 19 yr old with 8 games NBA experience who played off the ball quite a bit in Europe?????

      I only know Phil/Gaines were locked in on this guy from jump street, gave him a proctological exam and picked him with flashier AAU players/scorers available. I root for the guy because he is a Knick and my revulsion to all the “ZOMG! he missed summer league and the exhibitions because he clashed knees twice and stepped on WHG’s ankle!” Cuz Knicks we shudda taken Smith, blah, blah, blah! And…. Oh!!! I saw 10 minutes of Youtooob videos!

    145. bobneptune

      It is actually enjoyable to have an actual discussion about BB rather than the other drama for once!

    146. lavor postell

      Offensively he got bailed out on both KP’s go ahead three and his scoop lay-up

      The layup was actually THJ that got bailed out. He held the ball and ran a 2 man game that went nowhere before swinging it back to KP at the top of the key and he did the rest. But yes, he didn’t do much on that go ahead 3 other than deliver the man the ball, which is actually not anything special, though watching the last few years of Melo, Afflalo and Rose collectively ignoring Porzingis in crunch time might make us think otherwise.

      I thought he played solid in the 4th yesterday, but definitely not as well as he did against Indiana and not well enough offensively we’d have been able to hang with one of the better teams in the league.

    147. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      I don’t get all the hysteria about these Frank discussion.

      I think everyone knows we are operating with limited information. But that does not mean we can’t look at what we do know and form opinions. They won’t be strong opinions, but they will still be opinions based on something. We are doing the equivalent of what scouts do. We are looking at limited stats, athleticism, skill sets, work ethic, basketball IQ etc… and making projections. Some will turn out to be right and some will turn out to be wrong. My opinion is likely to change several times as he both develops as a player and I get to see more.

    148. Z-man

      I personally think you’re the one who’s being hypersensitive. We all admit that he didn’t have a particularly good game in terms of shooting the ball or even shutting down opposing defenders one on one. But we do reserve the right to credit him for being a part of another 4th quarter comeback against a comparable team, don’t we? If you’re going to shit on his boxscore without that context, we do reserve the right to mention that his +/- was 2nd best on the team, that he wasn’t exploited defensively during that run, and that he made some smart choices about who he delivered the ball too, no?

      Funny, I was actually going to use you as an example of someone who was very level-headed regarding his play last night, and specify that none of my comments were directed at you (as they clearly were in other conversations.) They were directed at Frank (the poster) who I have gotten along with swimmingly over the years. But I guess that’s moot right now. But no problem, calling yourself Ntilikilla pretty much says it all. You have zero capacity for being objective about your namesake.

    149. Z-man

      Has he been bad on offense or bad on scoring? The offense has been functioning very well under the 19 year old neophyte’s stewardship and his defense has been world class. Of players with >100 minutes he is 9th in the entire NBA in assists/36 and 1st in steals /36. I thought the primary jobs of the point guard was to run the offense, get the ball to the right people in the right spots, make the players around him better and to play defense. I think he’s doing a pretty good job overall under the circumstances. Cuban’s douchbaggery makes me root for him harder.

      I’m not exactly sure what you guys expect from a 19 yr old with 8 games NBA experience who played off the ball quite a bit in Europe?????

      I only know Phil/Gaines were locked in on this guy from jump street, gave him a proctological exam and picked him with flashier AAU players/scorers available. I root for the guy because he is a Knick and my revulsion to all the “ZOMG! he missed summer league and the exhibitions because he clashed knees twice and stepped on WHG’s ankle!” Cuz Knicks we shudda taken Smith, blah, blah, blah! And…. Oh!!! I saw 10 minutes of Youtooob videos!

      Ugh.

    150. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      I only know Phil/Gaines were locked in on this guy from jump street, gave him a proctological exam and picked him with flashier AAU players/scorers available.

      I’m sure Phil would have traded him if he blew off his exit interview. lmao

      Funny how all of a sudden it’s a given that Phil was desperately trying to trade Porzingis when at the time the only responsible reporters in the NBA (and there aren’t many) were saying that his asking price was so ridiculously high it was not a serious attempt. Even Ainge supposedly said Phil was never serious based on the asking price.

      I say we trade Frank.

      All I want is Curry and a 1st rounder. He’s on the market boys!

    151. Cock Jowles, #1 All-Rookie Benchwarmer

      I thought the primary jobs of the point guard was to run the offense, get the ball to the right people in the right spots, make the players around him better and to play defense.

      Maybe in the 1960s, sure. The last three MVPs have been shoot-first point guards who also happen to be outstanding scorers. Before that, it was Durant (the league’s best scoring wing and a fine passer), LeBron (GOAT), and Derrick Rose (the best offensive player on the league’s best defensive team).

      The most valuable skill in the NBA is to score efficiently and at great volume.

      I love players like, say, Rubio, but it’s very hard to be an elite PG when there are players who hover around .670 TS% on 25 USG%, even if you’re an outstanding defender and don’t turn the ball over. Value is always relative.

    152. 2FOR18, understands math

      One of the most stunning turns on this site is ZMans anti-Frank/pro Smith Jr stance. Smith has been horrible by every metric in creation, and now ZMan is taking the jump the shark position that Frank’s positive metrics and eye test defense aren’t necessarily contributing to wins.

      It has reached a Ruru and er re: melo level of delusion.

    153. er

      I don’t have a Melo delusion. You and your people have a Melo obsession. I think hell be fine on his team and wanted him traded. That’s it and im good. You don’t see me talking about how great he is. People spend post after post bashing the guy and im the delusional one…. sure. Whats that called? Projection?

    154. DRed

      Frank has played about as well as a rookie PG who can’t shoot, can’t get to the rim and who turns it over all the time can play. He might be the best option at point guard for the Knicks, because our other point guards are washed vets. That doesn’t mean Frank has played well. What positive metrics are you looking at? Raw on/off?

    155. er

      DRed, I think this site is a confirmation bias mode right now. The fact that anyone here thinks Kanter is good is nuts. And the Frank stuff started before the season, simply cuz hes a defensive player, and that’s fine.

    156. Cock Jowles, #1 All-Rookie Benchwarmer

      I think hell be fine on his team and wanted him traded. That’s it and im good.

      He’s been pretty garbage this year tho

    157. Cock Jowles, #1 All-Rookie Benchwarmer

      There’s definitely no statistical evidence that suggest Frank has been good. Again, I saw the play where he “locked down” the washed-up D-Wade, but that ain’t much of an argument.

    158. er

      He’s been pretty garbage this year tho

      The whole offense has been. Between Westbrook turning the ball over like a drunken sailor and the coach calling no plays. They will get better but yes he and the other two have all been bad

    159. bobneptune

      Maybe in the 1960s, sure. The last three MVPs have been shoot-first point guards who also happen to be outstanding scorers.

      The role of the point guard isn’t the same as the role of the MVP. It just so happens Curry and Westbrook are freak scorers who happen to be point guards. For sure, Id like to have Curry running the point for my team.

      If you have a player like Curry who can run the offense as well as being huge volume high efficiency players wonderful, but that isn’t the normal role of that position.

      Just remember Stockton and Nash (HOF caliber point guards) were freshmen in Spokane and Santa Clara at Frank’s age and they weren’t exactly lighting up the West Coast Conference, let alone the NBA. I’m guessing Frank hasn’t scratched the surface of his offense, but does enough already in other facets of the game to be the best player at that position the Knicks have had in eons for more than a ham sandwich.

    160. Ntilakilla

      Just remember Stockton and Nash (HOF caliber point guards) were freshmen in Spokane and Santa Clara at Frank’s age and they weren’t exactly lighting up the West Coast Conference, let alone the NBA. I’m guessing Frank hasn’t scratched the surface of his offense, but does enough already in other facets of the game to be the best player at that position the Knicks have had in eons for more than a ham sandwich.

      This.

    161. Ntilakilla

      But I guess that’s moot right now. But no problem, calling yourself Ntilikilla pretty much says it all.

      LOL. But I called myself Ntiliakilla when I was being “level headed” about Ntilikina’s game last night. So what changed? Nothing, except that you’re sensitive.

    162. Ntilakilla

      I’m not exactly sure what you guys expect from a 19 yr old with 8 games NBA experience who played off the ball quite a bit in Europe?????

      The funny thing is that it’s not like his older, more seasoned counterparts are doing much better either. Some people just have to play their favorites.

    163. Ntilakilla

      And offensively, being a point who’s not great at breaking down defenses off of the dribble is going to limit his ceiling.

      We don’t know this yet though.

    164. Nick C.

      One thing I notice is the Frank has to navigate a heck of a lot more screens than get set on his behalf. Perhaps he gives it up too soon or far out to get a screen or it it just how the Knicks sets are run.

    165. DRed

      If you want to understand why I wanted us to sign Rondo, compare his stats last season to what Frank has done so far

    166. ptmilo

      There’s definitely no statistical evidence that suggest Frank has been good.

      right. and of course there’s been no statistical evidence he will be good, partly bc 156 minutes can’t really be evidence for anything if that word is going to have meaning. but if we’re gonna flap our fingers in november…here’s the all time list of players 20 or under who averaged at least 7 assist and 2 steals /36 in a season:

      http://bkref.com/tiny/hfTDg

    167. ptmilo

      If you want to understand why I wanted us to sign Rondo, compare his stats last season to what Frank has done so far

      if rondo was 19 with a great attitude and a decent outside shot i would have signed him too. Seriously i was against signing rondo but admit healthy rondo would be a big improvement over jack. Not so sure about the mentor part.

    168. alsep73

      @IanBegley 34s34 seconds ago

      The Knicks say Kristaps Porzingis is out for tonight’s game against Orlando with a sprained left ankle and contused right elbow.

      Hope it’s nothing serious, and holding him out is the right move. This has the potential to be a pretty ugly game now, though — albeit one where maybe Dotson and/or Kuz can get some run.

      Who starts at 4? Lance? KOQ? A Willy/Kanter twin towers alignment? Beasley?

    169. thenoblefacehumper

      I don’t have a Melo delusion. You and your people have a Melo obsession. I think hell be fine on his team and wanted him traded. That’s it and im good. You don’t see me talking about how great he is. People spend post after post bashing the guy and im the delusional one…. sure. Whats that called? Projection?

      Carmelo Anthony was the highest usage player on the Knicks for the previous seven seasons. During that time, it was common to hear people talk about how great he would be if only we could surround him with better players. Him being on a new team that, presumably, has the level of surrounding talent these people were talking about is a perfectly discussion worthy topic on a Knicks blog.

      Sure, the main focus should be the current team, but we talk about a lot of things here. Melo’s performance with his new team is objectively interesting. If it’s going to trigger you like this every time it comes up just spend more time on CarmeloAnthonyFansBlogger.net or something.

    170. lavor postell

      Vucevic is the 5 so it was unlikely KP was going to defend him anyways. I think Willy and Dotson will get burn tonight.

    171. Brian Cronin

      I had a whole shtick about this being such a good test for the Knicks and now I had to erase my entire post (well, it was mostly for effect, as I was mostly talking about the Magic). But hey, maybe they’ll surprise us and win one for the Zinger!

    172. er

      Vucevic is the 5 so it was unlikely KP was going to defend him anyways. I think Willy and Dotson will get burn tonight.

      Did u think Kanter was?

    173. lavor postell

      Did u think Kanter was?

      Seems like that’s how Hornacek has been doing things. Keeping Kanter on the traditional 5’s and having KP roam out on more rangy forwards.

    174. bidiong

      Everyone needs to relax a little bit. Of course people are going to get over excited about small sample sizes. What else are we supposed to do as fans? We can’t fast forward to game 82 and see who’s right and wrong. No reason to chew each other’s heads off over 10 games of information. It’s a good time to be a Knicks fan. Let’s enjoy the ride and see where we are at the All Star Break. We’ll have a lot more data then.

    175. bobneptune

      He might be the best option at point guard for the Knicks, because our other point guards are washed vets. That doesn’t mean Frank has played well. What positive metrics are you looking at? Raw on/off?

      1st in the NBA in steals/36 players > 100 minutes

      Someone posted yesterday he was leading the league in deflections

      9th in the NBA in assists /36 for players with > 100 minutes

      Knicks 0-2 W/O…. 6-2 with.

      +/- :

      https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/ntilila01/on-off/2018

    176. geo

      i remember at the end of the game when they were huddling up – you could already see that knot on his elbow growing…

      would absolutely love to see the knicks competitive without kp on the floor for the whole game…

      there’s a ton of small steps the knicks need to take towards getting back to being a respectable basketball team – one being how they perform without their “star” scorer (who just so happens to also be our best defensive player…

      this game’s on you tonight horny – keep them in it…

    177. nicos

      1st in the NBA in steals/36 players > 100 minutes

      Someone posted yesterday he was leading the league in deflections

      9th in the NBA in assists /36 for players with > 100 minutes

      Knicks 0-2 W/O…. 6-2 with.

      And where does he rank in turnovers per 36 and fouls per 36? I’m guessing he’s top ten in those as well. He’s promising but it’s not like they’ve gotten starter -quality production from him as of yet. He’s played about as well as you can expect a 19 year old rookie to play but you can’t expect great things from a 19 year old. Also- this is just a pet peeve of mine- he spent two years as a professional in France so the idea that the fact that he’s 6 or 7 months younger than some of the other guys in this draft class means that he’s got any more upside than they do because of his age doesn’t hold water.

    178. 2FOR18, understands math

      I enjoy the stability and reliability of someone mentioning melo and then 30 secs later er saying he’s not obsessed with melo.

    179. bobneptune

      And where does he
      rank in turnovers per 36 and fouls per 36?

      His A/TO = 2 which isn’t great but pretty good for a rookie playing his first NBA 200 minutes.

      The reigning MVP’s is 2.2 :-)

      He has fouled quite a bit but so did Porzingod last year. His ON/Off is pretty impressive, No!

    180. 2FOR18, understands math

      People really shouldn’t use the ringer as a reliable sports site. You might as well quote Rolling Stone.

    181. Ntilakilla

      And where does he rank in turnovers per 36 and fouls per 36? I’m guessing he’s top ten in those as well

      Um, yeah, he’s a rookie. You going to hold that against him?

    182. geo

      after we conclude on this torrid topic of whether frank is/has/will be a good nba level basketball player or not – we can delve further in to the the controversial subject of whether water is truly wet…

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