Knicks Morning News (2016.08.25)

  • [NYTimes] Olympics Done, WNBA Ready for Sprint to the Finish
    (Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:33:56 AM)

    With the Olympics in the rearview mirror, the WNBA is ready to restart its season after a month-long break.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    49 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2016.08.25)”

    1. Lance goes against the culture that Phil was talking about building. If Rose/Jennings get injured I’d rather just tank hard and play the young guys we have.

    2. LOW RISK HIGH REWARD

      ROSE
      JENNINGS
      NOAH
      LANCE
      SASHA

      YEAH KNICKS YEAH

    3. Lance can ball, though. My definition of the perfect off season was Whiteside at the max, Seth Curry and Lance Stephenson. If it blew up we still had our 2017 1st round pick, and if it didn’t we scored three 26 year olds on contracts they would provide surplus value on through parts of their athletic primes. Obviously The Other Curry is in Dallas and Whiteside is in Miami, but Lance wouldn’t be a bad buy low option. As “cancerous” as he is, he didn’t stop Indiana from playing their best ball with him or the Clippers from being a top 4 seed or Memphis from making the playoffs. I know the Clippers traded him, but they also played Jamal Crawford a bunch of minutes and he’s not good as basketball.

      I’m a kid from Brooklyn in my twenties, and the word around town is that Lance parties too much. He’s not the gym rat people want him to be and he still has a toxic inner-city mentality attached to him that doesn’t allow him to commit fully to the game that saved his life. Maybe Melo can help with that. Melo was a super Baltimore kid to the point where he appeared in a stop snitching DVD. Maybe Melo can’t help him, but I’d like to see Lance get another shot. He’s a talented ball player.

    4. Forgetting Lance’s checkered off court past, the fact that 4 separate organizations from the executives to coaches to players have given up on him in the past 3 seasons despite his obvious talent says enough.

      Not one of his ex-teammates has vouched for him and one of the reasons Indiana let him walk was specifically because nobody on the team wanted him there. He wore his welcome out with Charlotte before the season even started and got jettisoned to LA. He got traded from LA despite fitting exactly what they needed in terms of skill and physicality on the wing at the cost of a first round pick in return for career underachiever Jeff Green. The league home for headcases and misfits in Memphis got productive play out of him and still turned down a wholly reasonable team option for him and showed zero interest in wanting him back.

      Fuck Lance.

    5. Lance goes against the culture that Phil was talking about building. If Rose/Jennings get injured I’d rather just tank hard and play the young guys we have.

      I think we can all agree that even if the pending allegations pertaining to Rose are false, he’s a demonstrably “low character” guy. There are a million examples of this. Ethics in sports have always been tricky to navigate so I don’t necessarily blame Phil, but I also don’t want to hear him bloviating about “culture” and the like if he isn’t going to actually practice what he preaches.

    6. What makes Derrick Rose a low character guy? He’s had zero run ins with the law and doesn’t exactly lead the league in technical fouls. He’s going to win his civil case I’m certain because there are so many holes in the case against him. If the allegations stick then yeah, but what other evidence is there out there? Calling Derrick Rose a low character guy is lazy narrative-driven bullshit at best and subconsciously racist at its most harmful.

    7. Now he isn’t the smartest guy out there, either. But the “Derrick Rose is a scum bag jerk” stuff is kinda weak sauce.

      There was also the “I don’t wanna recruit Melo” stuff, but whatever bro. He turned around and did a job to recruit Joakim Noah for the Knicks so in retrospect that looks like it was more about the Bulls organization than anything else.

    8. Calling Derrick Rose a low character guy is lazy narrative-driven bullshit at best and subconsciously racist at its most harmful.

      Fuck off. Rose’s version of events is that he tried to convince his girlfriend for a while to consent to group sex, she rebuffed it each time, and then finally consented after a night of heavy drinking. Draw your own conclusions, but high character guy, eh? What’s hilarious is I’m pretty sure you just ripped off something I said about people criticizing Melo for speaking out about police brutality.

    9. No you fuck off. This girl was not his girlfriend. She’s what the kids call a jump off. A girl that you just have sex with. 95% of the league has a list of jump offs. So combine that with the holes in the her story and I smell bullshit. I’m obviously against rape and rape culture, but some of these women get mad at men and throw the R word around. It’s fucking despicable.

      He was having sex with her for years and from what I read they did have group sex before. Having women doesn’t make you a bad person. He takes care of his kid and is a good dad. I’m tired of people trying to judge athletes from afar. Look at Melo, plenty of Knick fans were certain at a point that he was just some terrible person based on perception.

    10. That’s actually not Rose’s version of events to my knowledge. That’s the plaintiff’s version of events and Rose has not corroborated that other than that group sex was involved, which imo isn’t really about character as much as sexual preference. Not my cup of tea, but people get their jollies off in different ways.

      Either way I’m not comfortable saying somebody is a low character guy because of an alleged sexual incident that hasn’t even been tried yet and in which the plaintiff’s roommate has accused her of lying in order to extort money from Rose. Might make sense to just see how it plays out before making any character judgments about the guy.

      I’d also recommend reading this: https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/what-the-city-of-chicago-really-lost-when-joakim-noah-and-derrick-rose-left-town

      Doesn’t mean Rose is the greatest dude ever, but I think it’s fair to at least wait to see how the trial plays out before labeling him as a low character dude. Noah’s social work is also discussed in there extensively.

    11. I was worried that I was perhaps too harsh, then I read er’s post and was assured the mentality I’m trying to combat is well worthy of vitriol.

    12. First off, I normally skip your posts when I’m reading the comments on this website. It’s a low comment day so I decided to read what you had to say. So please, don’t flatter yourself. You also have the Derrick Rose story completely backwards, but I’ll let you google that later. So you can fuck off and I’ll go back to ignoring your posts, big fella.

    13. What’s in the water in here? Are all of the numbers and uber- analysis on this site making everybody crazy? I was just asking if Lance could help this team. I think that he just might.

    14. Kinda funny that all of this rancor was triggered by a post about an acquisition that hasn’t been suggested anywhere but prank websites.

      I seriously doubt that Lance is coming here and I would not want him. But at the vet’s minimum it’s fair to say that he’d be a good low-risk, high-reward deal.

      I am not passing judgment on Rose. It’s a civil case and who knows what really went on?

    15. He’s going to win his civil case I’m certain because there are so many holes in the case against him. If the allegations stick then yeah, but what other evidence is there out there? Calling Derrick Rose a low character guy is lazy narrative-driven bullshit at best and subconsciously racist at its most harmful.

      So have you read the text messages disclosed in the suit?

    16. I’m not DRose’s friend, parent or psychologist so i don’t know much about his character.
      What do i know ?
      1.That he looks like a humble hard working guy [despite his ‘superteam’ fantasy].
      and
      2. that JoNoah calls him “his brother”.

    17. I’m not saying Derrick Rose is the most upstanding citizen in the NBA or that he’s even a high character guy. What I’m saying is that the only proof that he is a low character guy is a civil case against him for $21M claiming he and two of his friends:

      1) Invited the plaintiff to his LA Mansion where they then drugged her, but she escaped and got home safely, and
      2) That they broke into her LA apartment and raped her.

      I also know that the plaintiff’s roommate is on the record for saying she is lying. I highly doubt she can win in court or that Derrick Rose invited a woman into his house to successfully drug her then allow her to get away but break into her house to rape her. Part of the story is that she left the apartment door open and that they never really broke in. I mean rape allegations are never open and shut cases but I don’t know about this one here.

    18. Massive, the FACTS of the case are enough, at least for me, to conclude that Derrick Rose is a low-character guy. They include Rose seeing the woman being so inebriated she grabbed a piece of burning charcoal, her almost definitely being asleep when they arrived at her house (not responding to texts after her friend took her home due to aforementioned inebriation), and group sex occurring. That is why I say you don’t have to believe every word of the accusations to come to the conclusion that Derrick Rose is a fucking sketchy guy. Like I said, draw your own conclusions, but I encourage you to reevaluate what appear to be your first instincts when it comes to sexual assault. I’d say the same to er, but he’s pretty much a lost cause.

      And by the way, it’s the accuser’s ex-roommate who says she doesn’t believe her. She was not there that night, and clearly has some pre-existing problems with the accuser.

    19. My first instincts when it comes to rape allegations of this level are honestly to let the trial play out and follow the facts. Rape is not open and shut and I’m not in the business of convicting people in the court of public opinion. This case specifically is very messy and I don’t know what to think. Rape is a serious allegation, but it’s still an allegation as of today.

    20. Massive, the FACTS of the case are enough, at least for me, to conclude that Derrick Rose is a low-character guy. They include Rose seeing the woman being so inebriated she grabbed a piece of burning charcoal, her almost definitely being asleep when they arrived at her house (not responding to texts after her friend took her home due to aforementioned inebriation), and group sex occurring. That is why I say you don’t have to believe every word of the accusations to come to the conclusion that Derrick Rose is a fucking sketchy guy. Like I said, draw your own conclusions, but I encourage you to reevaluate what appear to be your first instincts when it comes to sexual assault. I’d say the same to er, but he’s pretty much a lost cause.

      Yeah, but how else is he going to stay optimistic about the upcoming season?

      #drose2k16

      1.That he looks like a humble hard working guy

      8/27/2013 1:48 AM Mr. Rose to Plaintiff: “He bringing u back here we gon make sure u get to work”

      See? Even when he’s talking to a woman so drunk that she stuck her hand in a fire pit, he’s talking about getting to work. Just hard work! Working hard!

      Oh, wait — he meant group sex. Okay.

    21. Rose is a good person: he helped Jackson get Noah and will pass that ball to Melo like you won’t believe it. Trust me. We have the best players, we have the best talent. We’re one of the two NBA superteams. We have a chance of winning every game.

      The above message has been approve by Donald J. Rose.

      Making New York great again!

    22. This chain started off weak but ended with some pretty funny shit. I’m guessing that unless Rose gets convicted his character will be judged by this site squarely on his WAR. That said if I were a betting man my $$ would be on low character. The only indication otherwise is that Noah calls him his brother — not exactly conclusive (it’s not like high character guys only have high character friends). Also, fwiw I have a friend who lived in the same building as him in Chicago and saw him smoking weed in front of his kid (not judging, but it is a good thing we don’t weed test in the nba). Anyway, I’m all for innocent until proven guilty, but if I’m Derrick Fucking Rose for President and I can’t pull a threesome without resorting to rape (which is what it is if one of the woman is wasted out of her mind) that is pretty fucking pathetic.

    23. We are officially at rock bottom. When does training camp start?

      I’m not sure that discussing the court case of the Knicks’ max-contract starting point guard (and three-time minor knee surgery recipient) is quite “rock bottom,” unless you’re talking about the basketball-related motivations that some posters have chosen to defend his “character,” in which case I agree.

    24. basketball-related motivations that some posters have chosen to defend his “character,

      I actually don’t care. he could be a terrible person. Im just not here for the judgement on ppl you don’t know

    25. I was gonna post a large comment in response to this nonsensical portrayal of my comments, but nah. I will say that rape is a serious crime and we should take these allegations seriously, but we shouldn’t judge either until a verdict comes out. I prefer to withhold my judgment on matters like these because it’s a tough situation to judge. It’s not like the Stanford swimmer situation and Derrick Rose will not have white privilege to save him from the truth or any consequences. However, I wonder what the tone would be if Rose wasn’t a bottom five NBA player and was instead, I dunno, the starting forward for the Spurs on a below market value contract.

      In other news, Brad Beal and John Wall apparently hate each other. What happens when the Wizards are an underachieving outfit again and their max players no longer get along? I could see Beal being trading to OKC or Boston. I doubt they’d move Wall even though he’s older because he’s less prone to injury and he’s the better player.

    26. Did anyone else know this??

      Phil Jackson had a chance to trade for Boston’s Jae Crowder in 2014 and opted instead to acquire a second-round pick. He calls this decision, which was part of the Tyson Chandler/Raymond Felton trade, his biggest mistake as Knicks team president.

      http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-knicks/post/_/id/65100/phil-jackson-my-biggest-mistake-as-knicks-president-was-not-trading-for-jae-crowder

      Jesus, Phil. If someone asks you your biggest mistake, don’t disclose a brand new one when you already have plenty on your resume.

    27. And now Jae Crowder has the pleasure of sticking it to us four times a year on a cheaper contract than every starter on the Knicks not named Kristaps Porzingis. And the only reason that’s his biggest mistake is because he didn’t use that pick to acquire Nikola Jokic. Imagine how good we could be if Phil drafted Jokic instead of Early and Hollis Jefferson instead of Grant (and then didn’t trade either guy for Derrick Rose). Screwing up on the Grant pick and the Early pick were bigger whiffs than not taking Crowder I think.

    28. Either Charley got that quote wrong or Phil is a little hazy on the details. The Mavs didn’t give the Knicks a pick they owed to Boston (which would be strange) and it doesn’t fit that Phil “spoke with Boston” and got to choose between Crowder and the pick. Crowder was still on the Mavs at the time and the pick was a former Celtics 2nd traded to the Mavs in the Olynyk deal. He must have just meant the Mavs offered him Crowder or the pick, without zero Boston involvement, and he took the pick.

    29. I really wish Phil had not revealed that. Crowder might be on the best non-rookie contract in the league, and a Zinger-Melo-Crowder frontcourt would be really, really good.

    30. Crowder’s a pretty good player with a fantastic contract, but whatever. We would have been better with Jae, but not better enough to really matter

    31. Of course. It’s just mind boggling that he would serve that up.

      “You know, Charley, I’ve made a lot of mistakes here. But you don’t even know about this one…”

    32. Curry’s contract is probably second only to Towns in terms of value. Maybe better.

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