(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 5:44:52 PM)
Marcus Morris is not ruling out coming back to Boston next year, Yahoo Sports contributor Keith Smith hears (Twitter link). The combo forward enjoyed his time on the Celtics and believes he’ll have a major role on the team if he returns. While a re-signing remains a possibility, Morris intends to test the free agent market […]
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 5:44:52 PM)
Marcus Morris is not ruling out coming back to Boston next year, Yahoo Sports contributor Keith Smith hears (Twitter link). The combo forward enjoyed his time on the Celtics and believes he’ll have a major role on the team if he returns. While a re-signing remains a possibility, Morris intends to test the free agent market […]
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 12:51:00 PM)
Ja Morant, a sophomore guard from Murray State, has gone from lightly-recruited out of high school to a guaranteed top-five pick of the 2019 NBA draft.
In his breakout second season with the Racers, Morant averaged 24.5 points and 10 assists per game. Morant was stellar during the NCAA tournament…
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 12:20:09 AM)
The great Coach K has broken his silence on RJ Barrett’s potential arrival with the Knicks. “RJ will flourish here in New York,’’ Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said on his SiriusXM show that he hosted Tuesday in New York. “He wants to be here. He is so mature. He just turned 19 last Friday, but…
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 6:02:25 PM)
Ja Morant, who had never visited New York until a couple of weeks ago, was part of a panel at a Madison Avenue electronics store Tuesday, taking questions from fans. One mentioned a list of exploits that have occurred at the Garden across the years, including 61-point games by Kobe Bryant and James Harden. “What…
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 1:02:56 PM)
It’s fitting Frank Ntilikina’s final days as a Knick may be spent holed up in Dallas, where he could have started his NBA career. With Thursday’s draft night approaching, Ntilikina could still be on the move as the Knicks are extremely open to trading him for another draft pick – either a late first-rounder or…
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 1:37:23 PM)
The Knicks have declined a recent trade offer that would have sent the No. 3 overall draft pick to the Hawks in exchange for the eighth and 10th picks, a source told ESPN’s Jonathan Givony.
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 1:37:23 PM)
The Knicks have declined a recent trade offer that would have sent the No. 3 overall draft pick to the Hawks in exchange for the eighth and 10th picks, a source told ESPN’s Jonathan Givony.
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 12:31:17 AM)
It’s logical to think that there are no players on the Knicks roster who are off limits when it comes to potential trades, but 2017 first-round pick Frank Ntilikina is one player who members of the organization are open to listening to offers on, sources confirm.
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 11:24:34 PM)
With the Knicks projected to take Duke’s R.J. Barrett with the third-overall pick in the 2019 NBA Draft, now’s the perfect time to look at the best Duke players in NBA history.
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 10:42:37 PM)
If Al Horford is on his way out of Boston, could Clint Capela be on his way in?
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 10:17:41 PM)
Former Duke star Cam Reddish caught up with SNY’s Ian Begley this week in New York City.
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 7:59:13 PM)
Al Horford is reportedly set to hit the free agent market.
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 7:26:12 PM)
Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski points to several different reasons why RJ Barrett will succeed in New York.
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 6:21:55 PM)
There is turmoil in Houston between the Rockets two superstars in SG James Harden and PG Chris Paul, so much so that the latter has demanded a trade, per Yahoo! Sports Vincent Goodwill.
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 3:49:25 PM)
The Knicks have a workout scheduled with Vanderbilt’s Darius Garland on Wednesday, the day before the NBA Draft, league sources confirm to SNY.
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 1:03:25 PM)
With just two days until the Knicks are on the clock at No. 3 overall, one would think New York is set with their plan come Thursday night.
(Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:44:33 AM)
RJ Barrett has been training for several weeks ahead of Thursday’s NBA Draft. And the workouts, with trainer Drew Hanlen, have prioritized two area’s of Barrett’s game…
151 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2019.06.19)”
Can and should we offer 3 and Ntilikina for 4 and Ball, then draft Culver?
Knicks need a decent PG – tough call for FO. What would be your strategy? One option would be to stand pat and just play DSJ/Kadeem and hope DSJ breaks out or some trade for quality young PG emerges. There are other options. If you don’t want to stand pat, in what order would you pursue those options. Example: try to trade for Lonzo but if price too steep offer Russell 22m/yr deal but if he rejects it offer Collison nice 2-year deal. Granular options:
(1) Draft Garland and give minutes to him and DSJ
(2) Offer Russell 22m/yr deal (if balks, follow one of the other plans)
(3) Offer Russell 27m max
(4) Try to trade for Lonzo
(5) Offer Collison nice 2 year deal (hope DSJ breaks out or trade emerges for quality PG)
(6) Offer Rubio nice 2 year deal (hope DSJ breaks out or trade emerges for quality PG)
(7) Offer to take Conley into cap
(8) Offer Brogdon 18m/yr deal if Bucks sign Horford and let him go
(9) Try to sign Rozier
interesting nugget from ESPN’s draft intel article this AM:
I mean that is a no-brainer for the Knicks. Sign Durant if that’s what they want, take on Biyombo’s $17MM (and I don’t know, send back #55, or honestly even Ntilikina?) and get the #12 pick. There are lots of players at #12 worth taking a shot on like PJ Washington, Brandon Clarke, Walker-Alexander, etc etc. Heck, I’d even take on Marvin Williams or Kidd-Gilchrist if they threw in our 2nd round pick next year (CHA owns the least-favorable of the either the Knicks or Nets 2nd rounder in 2020).
The old white men also won the rights to other young white men’s bodies too, or didn’t you notice?
Zion voluntarily subjected himself to this process by declaring himself eligible to be drafted.
Also, those poor black millionaires were “sold” into slavery by a union with 74% black membership who collectively bargained this arrangement.
Of course can ply his wares in Europe or China or Australia or anywhere else in the world he cares to or he could become a nuclear physicist or a lawyer if he cared to. The world is his oyster…. however, if he wants to play in the association, then he must abide by the rules enacted by 74% of his landsmen.
In this thread we learned that Patrick Ewing and Derek Fischer are overt anti black self hating racists…. what drivel…..
Bleacher report has relevant articles today. In one they talk about five players to be avoided in the draft, who include Reddish and Barrett; and in the other they mention the Knicks are among the teams expected to be interested in Bobby Portis as a free agent.
The Knicks need decent players everywhere, not just point guard.
I want DSJ to be good, I just fear he isn’t. And I would totally take on starvin Marvin for the #12… good spot to grab Clarke maybe?
If they really like Garland, what about a potential trade with Cleveland if NO takes Culver?
Barrett and Frank for Garland, the #26, and Cle’s 2020 2nd round pick?
Then if we do the Charlotte trade we could end up with Garland, Clarke, and one of Okeke/Samanic/Johnson.
DSJ was a breath of fresh air after a few months of the Mudiay experience, but he’s not that good. I have no problems with him off the bench, but I doubt he can be the long-term answer as our starting PG.
Most Point guards take a long time to develop. I think DSJ has a chance to be good. We’re going to be bad this year anyway. It’s not the worst thing to go with the ones we have and see who gets better.
Trouble in Beantown: 🙂 🙂 🙂
It’s cool seeing the C’s getting their big plan swatted away by their own (ex?) players.
I didn’t say that. I said the league doesn’t need teams that can’t exist without subsidies from other teams and municipal tax payers. It dilutes the product and benefits too few at the expense of too many.
And no, it’s not elitist. The league is doing that even with the small markets. If you live on a farm in Iowa, the league isn’t putting a team in DesMoines for you, are they? They’re forcing you to choose between Minnesota, Milwaukee, and Chicago. If it’s fair on that level, why doesn’t it hold true further up the scale?
If that’s an option, hell yes.
I’m not referring to the NBA as any system of slavery. If anything, it’s more like the state run industries of the Soviet Union that limit choices by restricting competition.
Our government builds the arenas for one league and gives one league an anti trust exemption. This erects an impossible barrier of entry for competition, and the lack of competition enables the owners to create a system that works best for them. Take away the state support, and you’d have leagues like in Europe, where teams pay for their own stadiums, there is no draft, no tanking, and no season in which approximately 70% of the games don’t matter.
It’s about making a better product, not social justice.
What about #3 pick/Charlotte 2 pick for Hawks #8, #10, #17? I’d first try to flip RJ for Lonzo but I think Griffin’s envisioning a lineup of Lonzo/Jrue/Ingram/Zion/TBD so price is prob gonna be too high. So if Knicks aren’t interested, looks like Pels are gonna take #8 and #10 from Hawks in exchange for #4. Smart on their part, could nab Clarke and Bol Bol. That’s gonna be a real interesting team.
Personally, I don’t think our two future Dallas picks have a ton of value, but some teams might be interested in one or even both of them. I think we should try to move those picks to get another good pick in this draft or to try to land a quality player by attaching them in a deal.
How about going after Clarke? He has dropped a lot in mock drafts.
Would anyone be upset if we came away with Barrett and Clarke?
Right now, it’s looking more and more like we won’t be able to use the cap space we got out of the KP deal effectively this year. Whatever you think of that package, it set the rebuild back because DSJ is not as good as KP. I think we should try to bring some of that future value (the picks) into the present.
Quite a stretch.
You mean the same Derek Fisher who joined a company whose sole purpose was to identify cash-strapped fellow athletes and get them to pawn their jewelry and other valuables for a quick buck?
Hell, he might as well go into ministry next, work on his tithe skills.
I give Hubert all the +1s, here. He’s dead-on about the NBA’s cartel system and its exploitation of municipal governments.
Lots of stuff we could/should do in the draft but I can’t shake the feeling we’re just going to pick someone at 3.
I don’t agree at all. How so?
He had plenty of say in the matter. He can work anywhere. He chose to work in the NBA because the private benefits to him are so enormous they dwarf the slight drawback of living in a second-tier city for a few months a year for four years. Would that it were that minimum wage service workers had an Option B of going to work in Spain for a million dollars a year. Those are the people who are screwed around by capital. I don’t think the comparison holds at all.
I don’t follow hockey, but I understand the Rangers/Islanders unexpectedly won the NHL lottery. Were you similarly perturbed? Hockey players make far less money, and often come from across the world. I don’t feel the players were jilted though.
I actually mostly agree with these points. The only thing is I believe the players and fans want the small market teams to exist too. Players get 50% of revenue, so anything that grows the pie helps them. Small market fans want teams and are mostly willing to pay to see them. It’s the non-fan tax payers that really get jilted by the…
Yes Jowels… as even you learned in 2016 elections DO have consequences. Management didn’t appoint Derek Fischer and Ewing…. the rank and file did.
Now cities are being exploited???? Not just poor potential millionaire hoops players??? You know, the city governments can say no when the teams ask for “handouts”. They do have the right to say no…..
Yes, I hope anyone would agree on the local stadium subsidies being outrageous (I don’t think anyone is even debating him on that?). The anti-trust exemption would be unfair, but since the players collectively bargain it sort of equals out. It’s the whole equating NBA labor practices to deplorable that I don’t understand. They’re some of the best treated employees in the world, in many different ways. The NBA’s labor practices, at least for players, are incredible.
^Looks like bobneptune is defending the stadium subsidies. I take it back about no one disagree with Hubert on that lol.
If you think it will be a better product when 90%of the players aggregate in Miami and LA???? The we could maybe go back to having 6 teams and rob all those potential millionaires of their living…..
Reading is fundamental. I said the individual governments of the cities involved have every right to tell the team owners to pound sand when they ask for a handout. And that’s exactly what I meant. If the mayor’s involved don’t have the spine to say no, their citizens who are footing the bill should hold their feet to the fire.
But the citizens want to have their proverbial cake and complain about the cost while they are choking it down.
It’s odd that the Knicks want to trade Frank solely for cap space. I mean regardless of how you feel of him we’ll still have a ton of cap space regardless if he’s here or not.
It’s not like the KD/Kyrie dream is still alive(or is it)
It’s not a stretch but being facetious. However Fischer and Ewing were complicit in selling poor Zion into slavery by negotiating the CBA so, is there any other reasonable conclusion????
You are out of your element, here.
https://reason.com/2017/04/15/atlanta-braves-new-stadium-is-a-disaster/
Yes, bob. Yes. You are wrong.
https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt–politics/cobb-county-voters-send-lee-packing-boyce-elected-new-chairman/amm2QpAS9oVjtaozOwvfXP/
And yes, elections do have consequences. Unfortunately, the voters recognized this too late in Cobb County and now they’re stuck with hundreds of millions in bonds, which they’ll be paying for for decades. Probably going to sting a little more that it was one of their own (i.e. a Republican) who sold them out to the billionaires who own the Braves. Whoops!
But yes, let’s hold taxpayers accountable when they didn’t even vote on the referendum in the fucking first place. You live in a fantasy world, bro.
I forgot the biggest benefit of small market teams to players: more jobs. For that reason alone the players union would fight like hell to prevent cutting a bunch of small market teams.
They’re not just trading him for cap space – they’re trading him for cap space and a pick of some sort. Why would one do that if we already have too much cap space? Well, if you expect your asset to continue declining in value, you might want to sell now.
It could just be that the FO has decided that Frank sucks and that if they don’t trade him now, they’ll just have to decline his option and let him go for nothing next summer.
I’ve been hopeful for Frank, but the truth is we already have a lot of guards including one that plays his role and who is much cheaper and more effective than him in Kadeem Allen. I think it’s altogether reasonable to get what you can for him now if the FO+coaching staff thinks he’s not going to break out this year.
@27
That governments are corrupt is not news. That’s why some of us prefer that government be limited. We aren’t idealistic or delusional enough (your preference) to think politicians from any party are honest and will be doing the will of the people.
When government has a lot of power and control over a lot of wealth, corrupt individuals in the private sector use those corrupt politicians in government to advance their own personal agendas at the expense of taxpayers. That’s a fact of life. You either live with it or try to take power away from them to limit the damage. Then you have to live with the consequences of less government instead.
There are two checks on this.
1. Vote the corrupt politicians out next time
2. Vote with your feet and leave that city if #1 fails (which is what many people are doing in the most corrupt cities and states around the country)
All that said, there are economic benefits to having sports franchises in a city in terms of jobs, restaurants, hotels etc… It sucks that owners hold the sword and can threaten to leave without some kind of deal, but even an honest politician might choose to subsidize if the threat to leave is legitimate. It happens all the time in business. It’s not just sports. Major financial firms threaten to leave NYC all the time unless they get breaks.
@25
Well, trying to read the tea leaves, I’m guessing that Frank N is unhappy with the Knicks and has asked to be traded. Can’t really blame him, as the “coaching” the last two years has been pretty atrocious. But speaking of atrocious, so is Frank’s offensive game, so can’t really blame the Knicks if they dump an unhappy underachieving player for just a second rounder.
I would hang onto him as I would all the young guys under contract. If they end up with Barrett, then start him, DSJ, Frank, Knox, and Mitch.
No Jowels, I live in a republic where elected representatives make decisions. Everything isn’t sent to a public plebiscite. One man in Cobb County didn’t do this…. the entire government was in on it and I’d love to see all the packages that were distributed.
You deserve the government you vote for.
Also +1 for using an objective article from Reason Mag, the home of card carrying libertarians who believe absolutely nothing should be funded by the public (including roads, etc.) and who also believe in the primacy of private property…. where it is OK to deny a black man access to a store because it is private property. Let the marketplace work it out is their creed…. racist store owners will go broke under that circumstance.
The problem is your ilk, and correct me if I’m wrong, tend to view this as a binary choice when it really isn’t one.
It’s perfectly possible to pass laws that specifically limit the ability of local governments to essentially secretly negotiate these arrangements with no referendum (and there are ongoing federal and local efforts to do so), while also not limiting their ability to, you know, not have poor people get ground into pulp.
It’s deeply cynical to cite poor governmental decisions in one area, which again, can be legislated against, as evidence that the whole thing has gotta go.
You can be against tax-payer funded stadiums while also wanting functioning public schools, for example.
Man, did Hayek rise again to join the board?
Can’t we all just sit back and enjoy how effed up things are for the Celtics? It’s glorious.
@29 The reports coming out make it seem like they are still trying to clear cap as if the two max contract plan is still in play.
I still have a sliver of hope that he can carve out a role in this league. This year would be his last chance for the Knicks at least.
Shams says Conley to Utah.
I saw someone, I forget who, suggesting that the Nets wouldn’t want Kyrie alone and that if they couldn’t get KD along with Kyrie, then they’d just stick with DLo.
I think KD and Kyrie are still very much in play for both NYC teams.
Just so we’re clear…
People are arguing that the NBA market should be deregulated so those with an economic advantage can ruthlessly exploit that advantage as much as possible? I’m sure Donald Trump is happy to have your support.
Or to put it another way, the system that maximizes the power of a Zion Williamson is going to minimize the power of a whole bunch of other players, so at least be honest that you are supporting the 1%.
Mike
@wojespn
The Jazz will send a protected 2020 first-round pick to the Grizzlies, league sources tell ESPN. That pick will convey as a late-lottery pick in 2020 or 2021, or become a lightly-protected pick from 2022-’24.
Much as I’m a believer in Frank’s potential (against all evidence, yes; I am consciously choosing to believe in him without any significant statistical reason to do so), I would have been OK with a trade for cap space if KD/Kawhi/Kyrie were in play. But Kawhi almost certainly isn’t coming, and offering a max to KD now is problematic at best, and does anyone really want Kyrie without KD?
So a trade for space now seems foolish.
I am happy for Conley and the Jazz…..
That Utah trade seems good to me. If Conley could stay healthy, they might be able to take the next step.
Side note: I had to look up Grayson Allen’s stats, and the photo of him makes him look 14. If anyone ever needed some tattoos or something….
It’s really stunning how quickly and dramatically the fortunes of the Celtics fell. Think back to the 2018 conference finals – Celtics take the Cavs to 7 games without Kyrie and Tatum plays like a total stud. They have Boy Brad (the 2nd coming of Red Auerbach), and the GM genius Danny Ainge. And they still have that “boatload” of assets the sports media can’t stop gushing about. At that point, Boston looked totally set up to be contenders for years to come.
Fast forward to today: Tatum may not be as good as advertised, Horford bolts, Kyrie is probably leaving and all those assets the C’s accumulated never really got them anything. The one thing they still have is the Memphis pick next year and 3 first rounders this year, but what a fall they’ve taken.
I feel so sad for them (-:
we’ve seen some veteran contracts that were pretty far from obvious value at the time end up being pretty valuable on the market. blake eventually got the clippers 3 firsts, 3 seconds, shamet and a year of tobias harris. conley has now gotten quite a bit for memphis (more than i expected). gasol got them less, but something. derozan got just a little something for toronto (he was younger but still). harrison barnes opted out, which should count somehow. sometimes it seems like it’s only us who actually gets stuck with shit we have to pay to unstick.
Conley trade would seem to indicate that the Grizz are definitely drafting Ja Morant.
This. Reading Michael Lewis’s new book (The Fifth Risk) should be a required read for people who think that deregulation or minarchist government is appropriate in virtually all cases. After reading that book (which only skims the surface of units like DOE and NOAA), I am certain that any prior ideas I had about widespread deregulation were wholly misguided. I am a vocal opponent of rent control (despite the fact that as a homeowner, it would benefit me greatly to see a constricted supply of available housing) yet I’m a big fan of OSHA. Funny how the usefulness of government involvement is entirely dependent on the particulars of a case.
I especially enjoy how many of my “fiscal conservative” coworkers and business associates complain about their own companies’ dysfunction via understaffing, shoestring budgets, short-sighted cuts, etc., yet wish for our government to function under the same “private sector” race-to-the-bottom duress.
Libertarianism is a pretty damn wide philosophy in scope — there are “libertarian socialists” (like Jared Polis, governor of CO, a Democrat) just as there are minarchist libertarians (like Robert Nozick). It’s silly to believe that every classically liberal person would argue in favor of the individual’s right to racially discriminate. It’s simply not an accurate characterization of the philosophy. Is it a function of certain crypto-conservative “libertarian” movements like the Tea Party? Absolutely yes. But racism is largely rejected by libertarianism’s most immovable axioms.
Reason has some batshit insane views (most recent in my mind: linking to a debate between two academics as to whether the social backlash to racism is worse for society than racism itself, for which the audience overwhelmingly voted for the former) and also a lot of reasonable views on private-public corruption and the drug war.
They also recently allowed Richard Rothstein, writer of The Color of Law, to publish an article about his findings of collusion between the government and private entities to systematically discriminate against black Americans during the post-war housing boom. Notable is Rothstein’s thesis that because the government helped enact this widespread social inequity, it should be responsible for fixing it through equitable policy. Hardly a libertarian view.
@41
I’m with you. The probability that Frank develops a good 3 pointer to go along with some play making and plus defense is WAY higher than getting something better out of a 2nd round pick. If we needed the space to fit a critical piece on the team, I’d be fine with moving him. But I’m not a fan of giving up on a 20 year old switchable plus defender that’s working his ass off on his shot. I’d rather give on some low basketball IQ pinhead that can score but plays no defense.
I repeat, you are entitled to be very idealistic, but the whole bunch of them at every level are corrupt scumbags that are not going to do the right thing. They are paid off or threatened with political destruction by the very corrupt people we would like to constrain.
There are very few politicians that tell the truth, want to do the right thing, and are willing to sacrifice their career for what they think is right. When you find one, they get marginalized by their party, the media, and the powers that be. And guess what, among the few, just because they are good decent people, that doesn’t mean you and I will agree with them on every issue anyway.
I’d like terrific public schools too. It’s theoretically possible, but it’s just not happening in any big city with all the corruption involved.
Owen,
I was thinking along these lines as well, but also found myself thinking that Ainge would find a way to spin this straw into gold, again.
Dolan’s Razor does suggest that somehow we will wake up Friday morning and Giannis and Zion will be Celtics.
The Frankophiles need not worry:
Don’t nobody want to trade for Frank Ntilikina. Don’t nobody want the guy who was the worst player on a 17-win team. Not for a second round pick, not for a third round pick, not for a sack of basketballs, not for half of a ham sandwich. I am sure he will return for another few hundred minutes of his spellbinding brand of deer-in-the-headlights basketball before his frail body succumbs to injury.
He’ll get another chance to stink out the joint.
With Conley being traded to the Jazz there goes our fantasy of Morant falling to the Knicks.
Today & tomorrow will be very interesting, I think there will be a lot of moves. With all the scenarios that have been laid out I’m beginning to think NY will end up staying at 3 and picking Barrett, which might not end up as horrible as it seems.
Now back to our social and economic theory discussion…
Remember where you first read Brad Stevens overrated
Khris Middleton has opted out.
We could use him
Middleton apparently wants the max. No thanks.
Man, this is a stressful time to be a Knick fan. That’s why I can’t enjoy the Celtics situation – who knows how much worse ours could be? I do think Perry understands deal-making if not talent evaluation, so he probably won’t give out maxes to Tobias Harris and his ilk, but so many things could go wrong. I mean, they’ve already gone wrong (though not getting Zion, given the odds, isn’t really “going wrong.”)
I stepped back from the team after the Melo trade – it would really suck to have to do so again.
Fuck no on Middleton
Next Woj bomb…..Memphis traded Conley to make way for this deal…..2nd pick to the knicks, for 3rd pick, frank and mudiay, so they can finally solve their PG of the future
there’s gonna be a lot of insane money going around….. lots of teams with cap space… i just hope we shop prudently…
that’s a good way to put it…
mills brief stint with the checkbook in hand just seemed to be back scratching type decision making, not influenced by on court performance…
This is why people should be prepared for anyone they think, “Oh hey, that guy would be nice on a decent salary” will be making essentially the max.
Funny tweet, “Al Horford, Harrison Barnes & Chris Paul are all about to be Knicks”
How many people would be into trading the #3 for #8, #10 and #17 if Clarke is a guarantee at #17? I see multiple mock drafts (SI, NBADraft.net) having him fall to the late teens.
https://www.thestepien.com/2019/06/19/brandon-clarke-scouting-report/
hnnnnnnnggggggggggg
I’d trade the #3 for the #8 and #10 (assuming the guys I want are there), so I’d do the #3 for more picks without blinking, absolutely. I don’t think that Clarke makes it to 17 though. He’ll be gone by the time Charlotte (#12) or Boston (#14) picks. That said, I’m also perfectly happy with RJ, which looks like it’ll be the result. He’s got a lot of work to do, but there’s already been reports that he’s redoing his shooting form and his trainer is trying to give him some wiggle (i.e., not just strength). So we can at least rationalize the pick by noting that he and his trainer are already very aware of his weaknesses as a prospect.
lots of interesting stuff going on this off-season…the raptor effect should help propel plenty of deals…
more teams going championship or bust should provide more opportunity for us perennial cellar dwellers to come up in the association…
Not sure what you guys think of the writers at Yardbarker, but here’s their not so flattering look at RJ Barrett:
https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/why_dukes_rj_barrett_is_not_among_our_top_five_nba_draft_prospects/s1_13132_29348111
when was the last time we had an on court leader who was also an all-star caliber player…seems that RJ may have that potential…
i never considered melo to be much of a leader…
yeah, that’s some sobering stuff…RJ is way off from being a finished product:
https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/why_dukes_rj_barrett_is_not_among_our_top_five_nba_draft_prospects/s1_13132_29348111
i just don’t think i can take another year of our most vocal/forceful on court personality guy being lance…
i don’t trust anyone’s analysis who’s foundation is on synergy stats… particularly for college ball…. it is a meaningless sample even if you tripled it…. and you won’t see similar situations in college as you do in the pro’s…. an isolation in college means totally differnet things than in the nba…. the spacing and speed are also totally different….
that’s not to say barrett’s totally in the clear…. i have some reservations about him… but relatively speaking they are less than some of the other players…. so he’s not like harden… and very dissimilar to russell…. but he absolutely has a chance to play at a high level in a different way….
Any chance the Heat are looking to clear cap space? I’d take the #13 pick for the honor of paying Dion Waiters $25m over the next two years.
Jump in front of the Celtics and take Clarke.
🙂
seems like we all have til tomorrow to place our final bets – but, at this point, mark me down for picking and keeping RJ…
who knows what effect free agency could have on us keeping him…it’s been a while since we’ve had the chance to pick this high…
can he physically compete, how hard will he compete to improve, can he help make the guys around him better…if so, yeah, he’s on the team for at least the next few years…the front office needs a new face out on the court, not just one wearing street clothes on the bench for a year (if we can even get KD)…
If they aren’t totally convinced as to the abilities of Barrett 3 birds in the hand are certainly worth one in the bush. I’d love to take a flyer on Bol Bol (just not with a top 5 pick ). Woj podcast yesterday with Mike Schmitz called Bol clearly the 5th most talented player in the draft.
Yes. I think the monopoly on enriching basketball employment opportunities the NBA is allowed to operate gives them insurmountable leverage in CBA negotiations. The players union are essentially beggars desperately trying to hold on to whatever they can. They have no chance to ever come out on top in a lockout. So to say they collective bargained this is like saying someone with a gun to their head agreed to something, so why is it unfair?
If the #12 pick is available for taking on one year of Bismack Biyombo, I’m jumping all over that. I’d take both Biyombo and Marvin Williams ($32M total) for the #12 and some other asset.
I’m already on record saying I’d trade down – with reluctance, and a bit of concern about the risk (never mind appearance), but with the feeling I’d have better odds of coming away with a very good player.
Absolutely. I don’t like any system in which a monopoly is enabled to operate by the state in a way that allows said monopoly to institute stupid things like a draft and a lottery.
To make clear all I want:
1. Arenas built with municipal money or subsidized by tax breaks to be owned by the municipality, not gifted to the NBA.
2. Leagues to not have antitrust exemptions.
Both of these things would allow for the potential of other leagues to survive and loosen the monopoly. Multiple leagues means competition, and then you get what you have in Europe, where none of this tanking/draft/lottery bullshit is even a thought. If the English premier decided to hold a draft, no one would play there, they’d go to Germany or Spain.
@75
That would be wonderful. I just hope that if there is a team willing to do something like that, the Knicks step up rather than some other team like Atlanta. But for all we know, the team still plans to try to sign KD and KI.
I’m liking the plan of trading with Atlanta now and more as the draft approaches. It would be very fun to have a bunch of potentially promising guys on the roster for next year, specially if Clarke is on the board for the 17th pick. Drafts that are seen as weak as this one always have some gems in the late stages of the lottery and the first round, so it could turn out very well for us. I’m also pretty glad there hasn’t been any news linking us with the second rate max guys like Harris or Middleton or Cousins, which makes me believe there’s not a huge chance we’ll waste the cap on non-max players.
Horford to Mavs? It’s hard to say, but I think this bode poorly for our 2021 pick. Not sure why they would want to tie up that much money for Horford ages 32-36 when their nucleus is Doncic and KP and they have no draft picks.
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/254293/Mavericks-Emerge-As-Favorites-To-Sign-Al-Horford
Fear not…. you’ll have a chance to vote for Bernie! in the primaries in a few months.
In this thread we learned millionaire and hundred millionaire basketball players are “beggars” who were sold down the river by their Uncle Tom management (with guns held to their heads) to their mostly white ‘massa’. I can clearly picture Ewing cowering under Dolan holding a whip… “Please massa Jim… please don’t beat me!”
What unadulterated tripe…..
“Damn you, clouds!”
I have no idea how to figure out salary cap shit. Would it be possible to sign D’Angelo Russell to the minimax, then absorb the $32M of Biyombo and Marvin Williams contracts, and still have rooms for the contracts of the #3 and #12 picks? Because then the roster maybe looks like this:
PG D’Angelo Russell, Dennis Smith Jr
SG Dameyan Dotson, vet min guy
SF RJ Barrett, Marvin Williams
PF Brandon Clarke, Kevin Knox
C Mitchell Robinson, Bismack Biyombo, Luke Kornet
In this scenario maybe some poor sap team (Maybe Charlotte) takes on Frank’s dead salary. In 2020 Williams and Biyombo come off the books.
I would never.
I’m surprised you think I’m espousing socialism. This is a free market argument.
For whatever reason, sports in the capitalist United States are socialist, and sports in socialist Europe are capitalist. Never quite understood how it got that way.
What I want is a capitalist league structure with relegation & promotion. One where the teams who are run well profit and the teams who are run poorly get sent down and lose money. You would never have a Dolan in such a league. His incompetence is propped up by the socialist construct of the NBA. If him and Isiah operated in the English premier league, they would have been voted out by shareholders when the team dropped down to the third division and the Knicks would be forced to slowly work themselves out of near bankruptcy. It’s a pretty ruthless system I’m advocating.
You seem hung up on the Get Out reference. For one thing, that was a month ago. For another, it doesn’t logically hold that because Scene A reminds me Scene B, and Scene B evokes feelings of Event C, that Scene A means Event C is occurring. But you seem to be assuming that argument is being made. I’m not comparing the NBA to slavery. I’m comparing it to a state-aided monopoly with an idiotic operating system that promotes losing and randomness.
Agreed.
Would love for us to take advantage of 1-2 of these bad contracts to add more picks. I also think we should do 3 for 8, 10, and 17 if ATL offers all that but I’m fine with Barrett or a trade down to 4-6 too. Really interested to see what ends up happening.
@81 – Slavery jokes? Come on, man
Not buying it. I do not trust Gilbert Arenas one bit.
The only joke is in this thread is the woke are conflating multimillionaire athletes who collectively bargain an agreement with chattel.
@83 but can Barrett and Russell actually share the ball? I think we’d more likely to see a Russell/Barrett/Knox/Clarke/Robinson lineup.
But if we’re actually still going after KD and KI, then trading down for 2 or 3 ATL picks makes more sense.
We could field a lineup of Irving/Alexander-Walker/Knox/Clarke/Robinson while getting Frank, Dotson, DSJ, and our 2nd rounder some good burn too. Then KD comes back and we get even more draft picks (although I bet they’d pick Reddish and Washington over Alexander-Walker and Clarke).
The Keep It Simple, Historically Stupid Franchise approach to this offseason:
1)Draft Barrett (or, if he falls, Morant) at 3.
2)Sign Durant to a 4-year max.
3)Use the rest of your cap space trying to take on bad contracts for assets from teams looking to get under the tax or sign a free agent this summer.
3a)If no such deals present themselves, use the rest of your cap space on one-year deals for decent veterans who can help the kids develop.
You get another lottery pick and/or the kids turn into better players (or useful trade assets), and you have another max slot next summer, when the class admittedly isn’t as good, but when Durant will be ready to play again.
OKC is offering their pick for someone to take Adams or Robertson we should be all over that but I get the sense we’re going to just keep that money available for a big star who doesn’t want to play here
Looks like passed on a CP3 trade
His leg is basically a pool noodle
okc would have to give more than a one pick to take 3 years of adams at $24m per..
a lot more…. even though it is 2 years
Yeah we can do without the slavery jokes, please. Very slippery slope, even when trying to highlight the absurdity/cruelty/grossly damaging effects of it.
Meanwhile, have yall peeped this?:
We’re not the Knicks of yesteryear (or even last year). With the Rockets’ plan of continuing contention, no way they have enough draft pick capital to offer to compensate taking on that much salary.
I guess Adams would get in the way of our real shot at winning the title in 2 years
I was thinking the opposite. I love Horford, but he’ll be 34 and making $30+mm in the season we have their unprotected pick. Between that and Porzingis’ health risk, I think Horford to Dallas could be great for us.
That’s really not my point at all but there is a vibrant draft thread going on around us so whatever.
@90
I’d pass on Durant and 3a. If no such deals at this time, hold onto a bunch of cap space. There could be an interesting deal or two to make near the trade deadline as teams attempt to make big moves for the playoffs. Some team out there might want to clear cap space for Player X, and the Knicks could facilitate.
On FA I would be interested in, if the FO is hell-bent to sign someone, is Rubio for a year or two. Not to win more games, mind you, but to have a a competent PG to run a coherent offense for all the kids. Without that next year we might just see 2-3 guys taking turns running iso hero ball. Fiz Style.
Rubio probably would like to hook up with a contender, though.
If that is the case the problem would be with the coach…….
Some genius said this in yesterday’s thread…
I’d love to sign Horford to a 3 year deal, he’s in great condition and plays a highly intellectual game. But he makes more sense in Dallas on a 4-year deal. He’s a pro’s pro (as opposed to your favorite player’s favorite player) and will benefit both KP and Doncic. I think he is a huge positive factor in Dallas, especially if they make another smart move like bringing DAJ back.
No… but I’m guessing you could get something better than the 21st pick in this draft for your 52 million…..
The next time Durant takes the floor, he’ll be 32 and coming off a ruptured Achilles. I do not see how anyone would want to give him $150M to join the worst team in the NBA.
Woj says we are definitely taking RJ.
I’d say no on Adams too. OKC’s assets are not very valuable as they have no young talent and their picks are bound to be low every year because of George and Westbrook and always trying to compete. It’s too much salary for a very low compensation. I’d much rather take Biyombo or MKG or even Batum off the Hornets for their picks, if that ever presents itself as an opportunity, or even the Heat pick for a guy like Waiters or Olynyk.
I just don’t trust Perry & Mills enough to trade down. They will definitely draft Cam + someone else I hate and definitely not draft Clarke. I’d trade RJ for Clarke + Ponds, so 8 & 10 seems like a steal (given it is potentially possible to get Clarke & Ponds for 17 and 32; tho I bet they go higher than projected). But again, as a Knicks fan, just please take RJ and don’t do anything too stupid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAfnMNBU4DY
Check out the comment just below the pin. wetbandit, what up!
I’d take Andre Robertson and maybe Pat Pat into our cap (if we have no other use for it) for the #21 to get them under the luxury tax. And I’d take Bismack for the #12 And I’d trade down with Atlanta for 8, 10 and 17. If Atlanta actually offered 8 and 10…. there is a deal to be made there’
Bill Belichick sez hai!
Yes, it would be possible.
THat COnley to UTAH seems to be a good fit.
Hope conley will love it there as it is a good fit.
Well, is CP3, KD/Kawhi/ d. jordan not enough? 🙂
Will we rather have D angelo?
Hope we draft and keep RJ Barret.
Hardenesque Derozan.
We never had a prospect like him.
He also have Tmac Penny Hybrid potential.
For godsake lets do it right this time.
Perry and Mills were burned last summer when they chose Knox instead of consensus Mikal. They won’t make that mistake again and will choose RJ much to my dismay and chagrin. Here would be my comprehensive summer strategy if I were GM:
Actions:
(1) Trade #3 for #8 and #10. Try to get #17 as well by offering one of Charlotte 2nd round picks.
(2) Select Clarke and Bol Bol with #8 and #10
(3) Offer Knox and 2 Mav picks for Lonzo (if Pels reject, make 22m/yr offer to Russell)
(4) Take some bad contracts (Charlottte?) in return for pick(s)
(5) Sign Vonleh and Kornet to value contracts
(6) Don’t sign KD, Randle, Middleton, Harris, Butler, Kemba, Horford, Rozier, Beverley
(7) Bring in 2 vet min guys to chaperone the kids
(8) Preserve some open cap space to enable NYK to facilitate deals of other teams at trade deadline
(9) If strike out on Lonzo/Russell, consider offering large 1-year deal to Rubio or Collison
Potential Roster:
PG: Lonzo, DSJ, Kadeem
SG: Trier, Frank
SF: Dotson, Clarke
PF: Vonleh, Clarke, Kornet
C: Mitch, Bol Bol, Kornet
Notes:
– Restrict Bol Bol minutes in first year just like Mitch last year. Let Kornet soak them up.
– Bring in best shooting coach out there to work with Vonleh, Clarke, Mitch, Frank, Lonzo, DSJ.
I have an event tomorrow at 4 PM that will involve me making a speech. You can bet it will be a short one. I might wind up listening to the beginning of the draft in the car on the way home. Fortunately, my fathers day gift will be awaiting!
Why not Harrsion Barnes? Young and can score. Can replace THJR salary and production 😀
z-man is finally up for parole
THe problem with us is we all wanted the present D.Lo, Harden, Kemba, Kyrie of the world but we are not willing to get the rookie or younger version of that player.
Check harden’s weakness during draft night- Weaknesses: His body type is deceiving as it appears to be soft and uncut … Listed at 6-4, he’s likely close to 6-5 but still on the short side for a 2-guard … Can improve the consistency of his outside shooting … His quickness and athleticism, while good wont stand out on the next level … First step and his explosiveness aren’t at an elite level … A decent defender who doesn’t gamble much, but his lack of great foot speed limits his ability as a lock down guy … A terrific leader who can improve by becoming more vocal …
I mean there is no perfect prospect but one of our youngs and this number 3 pick could turn out to be the player that we are willing to pay for the max.
The prudent thing for the Knicks to do would be to go get Andre Roberson and Marvin Williams. We’d add defense and 3 point shooting to a team in desperate need of it, we’d pick up the 12th and 21st picks in this draft, and we’d still have room to sign any one free agent. Unless Kyrie Irving and Kawhi Leonard decide they want to team up on the Knicks, we need to be looking to add assets in pursuit of the next disgruntled (super)star. Adding RJ Barrett and two more 1st round picks so that teams don’t have to pay the luxury tax sounds pretty good to me. If we sign D’Angelo Russell and Julius Randle after adding Andre Roberson and Marvin Williams via the draft, we could roll out a depth chart of:
PG: Russell, Smith Jr, Allen
SG: Barrett, Trier, Dotson
SF: Knox, Roberson, Ntilikina
PF: Randle, Williams
C: Robinson, Kornet
The 12th and 21st picks would fit in there somewhere, and that would be about as good a line up as you could ask for considering the circumstances. You should even have cap space to bring in Julius Randle on a nice contract, too. It’s a far reach from KD and Kyrie, but it would be a fun team with enough shooting, defenders, youth, and athleticism to watch for 82 games. I probably want the Knicks to be young and asset-laden more than I want the Knicks to be a two superstar team with a G League depth chart.
i’ll tell ya z-man – not to get too weird (why not though), but, i thought about some of the stuff you had written about your trip down the coast with your son, while i was enjoying a trip up to monterey and back with mom…i know it made mom real happy for us to spend that time together…
the pride and joy expressed in your words about the time you were spending with your son was pretty fucking cool and definitely stuck with me…
no doubt:
life get’s mighty precious
when there’s less of it to waste…
B/R projects Hachimura going to the Hornets at 12. For some reason I can’t explain, that makes perfect sense. Oh Charlotte.
@119
I’m down with this plan but without Randle. I don’t trust him to keep his levels of production once he signed a big contract, and he won’t come cheap. I also don’t think he’s a very good fit together with Mitch, I would like a guy who’s either a better defender who can switch on the perimeter, or a better 3 point shooter. The FO can just tell Russell we’re going to be bad for another year as the young guys develop around him and we gather more assets to go for a big trade or another FA signing.
I’m still fine with Barrett, it’s a much more promising situation than the one we had last season with Knox. I’m not sure if it’s ideal as I’m not confident in him having star potential, but I believe he’ll be at least a decent to good rotation guy eventually and that’s ok.
I bet Griffin makes us an offer on a pick swap that we can’t refuse and we end up with Garland or Culver. Idk what that offer would be – maybe extra picks or Lonzo. Just a hunch.
Fivethirtyeight’s CARMELO system has Zion as the #1 prospect, Morant as #2, Jaxson Hayes as #3, Culver as #4 and Barrett as #5.
I think CARMELO is a shitty projection system, but it’s a little interesting how it matches up with conventional wisdom. Other than Hayes, the top 5 rated players are all guys who are locks to go in the top 5.
RJ Barrett’s two closest comps in this system are none other than Carmelo Anthony and D’Angelo Russell.
wetbandit is internet famous! That video is a balm for the soul in these troubled times.
it seems that we are locked in on rj…. and i’m fine with that… he probably will be the best post ewing pick we’ve made and will have a decent shot to break the charlie ward curse….
but there’s a good chance that not picking culver will come back to bite us…
vescey is claiming pels are trying hard to jump to 2 to take RJ
Reading around that NO are desperate to jump the Knicks so they can take RJ at 2 potentially. Unless Memphis is getting Ball in any proposed deal, I can’t see them moving down and missing on the best PG prospect in the draft when they just traded their franchise PG. Either way, potentially a not so crazy proposition that Morant falls to the Knicks.
@127 beat me to the punch!!
Yeah, Griffin is a walking hard on, especially now with the 2nd Chance the Pels have given him.
Maybe they do the Charlotte trade for #12 and give us 4, 12, and 39 for 3? Then we get 3 more picks but still have our cap space.
Culver, Washington, Ponds?
Very kind words, geo, they truly mean a lot to me. When the routine gets overwhelming, it’s nice to have those magical escapes to look back on. Glad to hear about your road trip with mom, you have many more!
Damn, we deserve some good Knicks kharma, don’t we?
I can’t remember a draft with this much potential for movement…
I wouldn’t hate an offer from the Pels along the lines of Ball and 4 for our 3 and maybe a Dallas pick. Ball throwing lobs to Mitch would be perfect LaVar aside (although given LaMelo just signed here in Australia, he’s probably going to be holed up over here in Wollongong to cause too much of a ruckus).
If they’re so desperate to trade in front of us why don’t they just trade with us?
I guess I wouldn’t be too surprised if Memphis traded down to #4 and took Garland just because Garland went to high school and college in Tennessee, but what the hell would David Griffin be thinking? Lonzo Ball, Zion Williamson, and RJ Barrett all have at best questionable jumpers, and this is a 3 point shooting league. Their starting five next year would be Ball, Holiday, Barrett, Ingram (who is 190 pounds and just had a very serious surgery), and Zion Williamson. Zion Williamson’s 34% from deep would be the highest of all five guys.
There’s no way Griffin assembles that team unless he’s trading for Bradley Beal or something, and that can’t happen anytime soon because Washington doesn’t have a GM. RJ Barrett will be a Knick by this time tomorrow.
Regardless of outside shooting, I think the plan is to bring in Zion’s wingman so that he’s comfortable in New Orleans as a way to keep him there long term. It makes sense after the AD fail.
New Orleans probably doesn’t want to be terrible next year but they’re also not trying to be a serious title competitor.
Snell and #30 to Detroit for Jon Leuer says Woj.
That doens’t move the needle much in either direction.
This miiight make sense if:
(1) Pels think Grizz might select RJ
OR
(2) Pels think Grizz will take Morant but NYK rejected Pels offer
I feel like this situation should be huge positive for us but …well… Dolan’s razor. We’ve been in free fall since it looked like we would snag the #1 or #2 pick right after league announced Lakers were #4. This will just end with our hopes being dashed again. Man I hope FO isn’t wedded to RJ at expense of Ja or Lonzo. We need a young, promising, cost effective PG in the worst way. Maybe FO plans to offer Russell max? It would be vomit inducing to watch Knox, RJ, and Randle in our starting lineup.
Wow, so Ja might just fall to us at #3? That would be pretty sweet. You do you, Griffin!
I love reading the combination of “players get paid a lot and choose to play in the NBA so they have no right to complain about their employment” and “the profits of investors are paramount and we have to put their needs first when contemplating the conditions of the workers they employ.” So delicious! Such bright contrasting flavors! The ur arguments of late capitalism. Money has more value than the labor that produces it and any inclement employment conditions are the fault of the workers. You can tell it’s true because the free market requires less taxes from investors and everybody knows that the market is a naturally occuring phenomenon, like Jesus. It’s a perfect meritocracy. Insert heart eyes emogi here.
Also loved dessert, where any instance of corruption in a system is proof of widespread and inherent corruption and there’s no point in trying to root it out. That’d be silly idealism! Sometimes I think Strat must live in a world where everyone is a murdering adulterous pedophilic rapist but it’s beyond the pale to question anyone who may have engaged in those activities. Who are we to cast stones? It’s just not done. Too bad it’s past his bedtime and he’ll never see this. His world view sounds like an endless nihilist wasteland punctuated by the bright burning candles of investors keeping us all safe from the hoary clutches of over-zealous justice. It’d just make things worse after all. Next time I’ll just have the glass of port. Maybe a coffee.
Grocer’s Guide To Fixing The Draft While Increasing Parity:
Draft position determines how much money a team can offer. Rookies can decide where they’d like to go. Increase the percentage of the cap max contracts can be to cut back on multiple star dynasty teams. Maybe no rounds, just a flat contract amount teams can spend how they wish on rookies? Plus as many minimum contracts as they have spots for. Allow using that money for one offs to lock in rights to euro players?…
What do the Pels have that we don’t really want but the Grizz do? Or does he actually think Memphis is taking Barrett? I gotta say, this whole idea is really fucking stupid and I think it is great. I mean, I guess I’d but okay with Morant, shucks Griffin, you tossed us in the dang briar patch once more. When will we learn.
The damn machine told me I had 9 characters left and it still cut it off. WTH machine? Note to self: don’t let Knickblogger perform the bris. End of 142 should read “details TBD.”
listening to RJ on sportscenter…great smile…he’s got a chance to be broadway in way KP never could have been…
@142
g r o c e r t i m e
Grocer dropped the hammer, and I’m all here for it.
(Btw I’m totally stealing this to throw at the few Austrian economists I still run into from time to time)
If Griffin trades for the 2nd to get Barrett I would be very, very happy. I don’t think it’s happening because I really don’t see Memphis wanting Ball (who’s certainly not going to want to play in Memphis and it will be a mess), but maybe they love Garland and can be enticed by other assets? At this point I guess its just wishful thinking anyway, so I won’t get too hopeful.
All I know is if this country keeps running up debt like it is we’re all fucked. Doesn’t matter what kind of labor situation you’re in.
The big straw man is the implication that workers have “no right to complain” if they’re earning millions. No one is saying that. Obviously, workers DO have the right to complain and to seek redress, through the collective bargaining process, superseded by employment/civil rights law.
The Knicks are poster children for the power of collective bargaining. See: Joakim, Amare, Eddy, etc. Those are the guys that are screwing the 19 year olds, not the evil cartel.
Pretty sure bob said precisely that and I don’t think he was alone. It may seem like a field but it’s really a road of yellow brick.
Tell me why this is bad.
Plenty of details to be hashed out later.