Knicks Morning News (2017.02.05)

  • [ESPN] Melo: Knicks’ struggles, rumors ‘testing my will’
    (Sunday, February 05, 2017 1:06:18 AM)

    Melo: Knicks’ struggles, rumors ‘testing my will’

  • [NY Newsday] LeBron James won’t comment on Knicks-Carmelo Anthony relationship
    (Sunday, February 05, 2017 2:35:59 AM)

    LeBron James considers Carmelo Anthony his “brother,” but King James made it clear on Saturday that he is not his brother’s keeper.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks players block out trade rumors about Carmelo Anthony
    (Sunday, February 05, 2017 2:29:22 AM)

    The Knicks’ players can’t help but hear the trade rumors, but they’re trying to block them out. They don’t want to consider life without Carmelo Anthony.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks cut 27-point deficit to five, but can’t complete comeback in loss to Cavaliers
    (Sunday, February 05, 2017 1:25:00 AM)

    LeBron James is the main attraction whenever he visits the Garden, and he didn’t disappoint with another brilliant performance Saturday night. His buddy Carmelo Anthony had plenty of eyes on him too, but he disappointed the home crowd and maybe his bosses.

  • [NY Newsday] If this was an audition for Phil Jackson, Kevin Love passed it
    (Sunday, February 05, 2017 12:46:00 AM)

    Did Phil Jackson really ask the Cavaliers for Kevin Love in a deal for Carmelo Anthony, as has been reported? Love’s performance at the Garden on Saturday night showed that this might have been a pretty good idea by the Knicks’ president.

  • [NY Newsday] Jeff Hornacek likes Joakim Noah’s quiet contribution to starting five
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 9:52:52 PM)

    Jeff Hornacek isn’t ready to remove Joakim Noah from the starting lineup and said he will stick with him for the time being.

  • [SNY Knicks] Cavs jump out to big lead, hold on to top Knicks, 111-104
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 10:48:04 PM)

    Cleveland jumped out to a 27-point lead in the third quarter and held off a late Knicks’ rally for a 111-104 victory over the Knicks Saturday at Madison Square Garden.

  • [SNY Knicks] Rose to sit out against Cavaliers
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 6:46:51 PM)

    Knicks G Derrick Rose will sit out Saturday against the Cavaliers with an ankle injury, the team announced.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s Game: Knicks vs. Cavaliers
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 5:44:40 PM)

    The Knicks host the Cavaliers on Saturday night at 8:30 p.m.

  • [SNY Knicks] Hornacek: Melo not mad about benching in Brooklyn
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 3:29:49 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony was not mad about being benched during the fourth quarter of Wednesday’s game against the Nets, head coach Jeff Hornacek said Saturday.

  • [SNY Knicks] Rose wonders if he’ll be traded before deadline
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 2:51:36 PM)

    Amid rumors that Carmelo Anthony could be traded away from the Knicks, guard Derrick Rose has wondered if he’ll be be gone before the trade deadline as well, according to ESPN New York’s Ian Begley.

  • [NYPost] Knicks revolutionized 3-point shooting before it was cool
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 9:42:57 PM)

    Before Mike D’Antoni’s speedball gangs and Steve Kerr’s record-setting Warriors, the Knicks were 3-point shooting trendsetters in the late 1980s. The 1988-89 Knicks, under coach Rick Pitino, attempted 1,147 3-pointers, up by more than 400 from the previous league high, and made 386, to shatter the former 271 standard. Saturday, as part of the Knicks’…

  • [NYPost] There is one Jackson who is a fan of Carmelo Anthony
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 9:36:05 PM)

    Another Carmelo Anthony supporter voiced his opinion Saturday. Former Knick and TV color analyst Mark Jackson threw his support behind Anthony, saying the oft-maligned forward, who has been the subject of numerous trade rumor reports, has too long been on a talent island with the Knicks. “It’s not just him. You don’t win with just…

  • [NYPost] Knicks have accepted a losing culture, and it starts with Jackson
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 9:26:01 PM)

    If there is a basketball purgatory, the Knicks are in it, caught between the illusion of chasing a playoff berth and the likelihood they are about to rebuild for the future. That was evident against the Cavaliers on Saturday night at the Garden, where LeBron James and the defending champions beat the overmatched home team…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis on Skills Challenge: ‘I think I have a shot’
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 9:03:49 PM)

    When the season began, Kristaps Porzingis hoped to complete the All-Star weekend triple crown — the Rookie-Sophomore game, the Skills Challenge and the main event. He will have to settle for two of the three after being passed over for the All-Star Game. Nevertheless, Porzingis said he is “excited” about being one of the eight…

  • [NYPost] LeBron backs Carmelo before absolutely torching the Knicks
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 8:26:23 PM)

    LeBron James did not want to engage in any talk about the stormy relationship between Carmelo Anthony and the Knicks management. His lips were sealed, other than to say he wants Anthony, his friend, to be happy. Instead, as he usually does, he made a whole lot of noise of the court and made the…

  • [NYPost] Cavaliers show Knicks, Carmelo that LeBron and Love conquer all
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 6:23:42 PM)

    If the Cavaliers needed further confirmation why they don’t need to swap Kevin Love for Carmelo Anthony, they got it at the Garden on Saturday. With Anthony suffering through a second straight erratic game, LeBron James dominated and Love produced as the Cavaliers shook off the absence of injured Kyrie Irving to post a 111-104…

  • [NYPost] When Carmelo owned NY: Remembering chaos of Knicks debut
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 3:26:58 PM)

    HOUSTON — As we speed inevitably and inexorably toward the exit ramp, perhaps it is not such a terrible idea to remember when things around the Knicks were perfectly juxtaposed, when they were the team seeking to make a blockbuster trade, when they were the ones hoping to import an All-Star. It is easy to…

  • [NYPost] How long will Hornacek put off the Joakim Noah inevitable?
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 12:11:47 PM)

    Knowing his four-year, $72 million contract is untradable, Joakim Noah is viewed by management as the backup center for next season, according to a source. Whether that backup status is realized this season is a fluid situation. Despite rookie center Willy Hernangomez’s striking progress the past few weeks, Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek still is coming…

  • [NYTimes] Cavaliers 111, Knicks 104: Knicks Fall to Cavaliers in a Roller-Coaster Performance
    (Sunday, February 05, 2017 5:58:59 AM)

    Down by 27 points in the third quarter, the Knicks fought their way back into the game thanks to Brandon Jennings, but they couldn’t complete the comeback.

  • [NYTimes] Keeping Score: In N.B.A., How the West Has Maintained Its Big Lead Over the East
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 7:30:17 PM)

    The West is on its way to recording an aggregate edge over the East for a ninth straight season, just one reflection of its continued superiority.

  • [NYDN] Cavs’ easy win over Knicks shows they shouldn’t part with Love
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 9:13:35 PM)

    The Cleveland Cavaliers should tell Phil Jackson to lose their number once and for all.

  • [NYDN] Melo on getting booed: ‘You are what the back page says you are’
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 9:00:57 PM)

    Anthony sounds like a man trying to work through an unhappy marriage.

  • [NYDN] Jeff Hornacek benches surging Hernangomez in favor of Noah
    (Saturday, February 04, 2017 4:53:47 PM)

    Hornacek stuck with Joakim Noah despite statistical reasons to put the $72 million center on the bench.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    130 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2017.02.05)”

    1. To the many deluded souls who litter the blog every day with bizarre trade scenarios where the Knicks get assets and draft picks for Melo: we can make it official: Cleveland has no reason to even consider trading Love for Melo.

      Repeat with me: the Knicks will be the ones parting with draft picks if the want to get rid of Melo.

      One more for the deluded: Hernangomez’s ceiling is career backup. There is nothing beyond that in his game. Think Manhimi, not Duncan.

      Stop the delusion.

    2. Tanking is the optimal choice right now, but I have to admit- the 2nd half was fun. It makes you wish they played that way all the time. But the goal is to draft another young building block, so the team can’t afford to sustain that effort. As long as we have the vets we have, it’s gonna be hard to officially tank. Alot of posters like Lonzo Ball, and many have compared him to Jason Kidd. I like him as well, but that’s extremely high praise. Kidd was a true game-changer, even in his last season as a player. I don’t see quite that much in Ball, but he is a little reminiscent of Kidd. I think he’s more of a quicker, young Mark Jackson than Kidd- and that’s still very good. I’d rather see a frontcourt od Willy/KP/Isaac next season. Isaac is already a better perimeter shooter than Hiannis, so I think he’ll be fine at the 3. We will probably need a PG more than a SF, but if we don’t land a top 5 pick, who can we draft? PG’s are once again the cream of the league, so theres no doubt the top PG’s will be snatched up somewhere in the top 7. I really haven’t watched as much college hoops this season as I normally do, but I don’t see enough great college PG’s in the draft to not shoot for Isaac. Now if we keep losing and get a top 5, then of course we go PG. I am biased towards PG’s so it takes alot to jump out at me before I’m moved.

    3. Repeat with me: the Knicks will be the ones parting with draft picks if the want to get rid of Melo.

      If Phil somehow trade Melo without giving picks you promise to go away?

    4. And how the hell did the Wolves lost at home to the Grizzlies without Gasol, Parsons and Allen?

      This just show the ineptitude of our competition.

      Getting a top 10 pick won’t be easy

    5. If Phil somehow trade Melo without giving picks you promise to go away?

      Would you and the rest of the deluded leave if the Knicks don’t get the ‘young assets and draft picks’ you think they will get for Melo?

      Would any of the deluded leave if Melo doesn’t bring that Brooklyn pick?

      Would any of the deluded leave if none of the bizarrely stupid trades they post every day comes to fruition?

    6. One more for the deluded: Hernangomez’s ceiling is career backup. There is nothing beyond that in his game. Think Manhimi, not Duncan.

      WTF are you babbling about? Even Mark Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy agreed during the game that he’s a future starter. He acquitted himself well in last nights sans a few turnovers and and a couple of missed free throws in the game.

    7. Would any of the deluded leave if Melo doesn’t bring that Brooklyn pick?

      Yeah, we’re all pretty certain that we can get that Brooklyn pick, would be a complete shock if we didn’t.

      Just stop.

    8. I think he’s more of a quicker, young Mark Jackson than Kidd- and that’s still very good.

      Mark Jackson wasn’t even half the player in his freshman season at St. John’s as Ball is now for UCLA.

    9. Theo likes curdled milk in his morning coffee.

      I love it when a moron comes onto a blog to make definitive statements with no evidence as if such statements were self-evident when opposite is the case. Makes you wonder if the guy even watches games or is just a Nets troll. Jackson and Van Gundy were slobbing all over Willy last night. But, alas, the troll has declared Willy is a career backup! Gee, who should we listen to? A man who coached Patrick Ewing and Yao Ming in their primes and another who played with Patrick Ewing and Rick Smits in their primes or a know-nothing blowhard who lives in his mom’s basement? Choices….

    10. So the East is actually so bad that the Knicks are 2.5 games out of the playoffs AND 2.5 games out of a top 5 pick. We need to commit to the tank instead of this nonsense of a playoff race to be smoked by Cleveland.

      Again, it’s not looking like we’ll get anything we want for Melo and we’ll end up sitting on his contract until at least draft night. Cleveland won’t want to give up Love now but when they get smoked by Golden State? They’ll think long and hard about shaking things up. The last time LeBron got lucky in an NBA Finals he played the same team the following year and lost by the largest margin in NBA history. The Warriors will set up a trade market for us, and the Raptors will also help us convince Boston to make a move when they beat them in the semifinals.

      Doc Rivers is clearly an idiot, though. He should have jumped at a trade for Melo when we told him he could keep his Big 3. We could have taken Reddick (who he can’t pay) and given him Lee while flipping Reddick, Kuz, and O’Quinn to OKC for their 1st rounder this season.

      We really just need to tank. Between Fultz, Ball, Smith Jr, and Isaac we can add a great piece to put our young corps together and build around them.

    11. Carmelo on all of the Melodrama:

      I’m still keeping it [mellow], still keeping it cool, man. It definitely kind of tests you, can put you to the test. You have to dig deep within yourself to get through it on a day-to-day basis, figure out a way how to still go out there and play at a high level every night, play hard, lead this team.

      That’s kind of where you have to dig deep at, despite of everything that’s going on, that’s surrounding — I don’t even want to say us — me. It’s testing me. It’s testing my will. It’s testing me as a human being. It also is making me stronger throughout this process.

      Someone should have mentioned that the team played way better without him in the lineup.

    12. This tank needs to be set into maximum overdrive. God help us if we end up with another big or reach for a guard like Terrance Ferguson.

    13. @14

      I am beginning to believe keeping Melo on board actually helps our tanking prospects. Its two straight games where we’re playing better without him on the floor as we are with him there. So the urgency to trade him doesn’t really exist as long as that trend continues.

    14. We’re not beating the Cavs as long as LeBron James is living and breathing on this earth, but last night we were 14-28 from the FT line and LeBron was hitting long range shots. Should have been a much more competitive game.

      It was nice to see them not lay down and at least make it a semi-watchable 4th quarter. I was hoping Horny would leave Melo on the bench, but he didn’t and Melo proceeded to brick momentum killing shots.

    15. 16 points on 7-10 shooting, 5 rebounds (it’s hard going up against Thompson), 5 assists, and 2 blocks

      Haha yeah career backup!

      You should wait until he has an actual bad game before you spew things.

    16. As always, time will prove the fools wrong.

      Where are the teams salivating to give us those picks for melo?

      Now the theory goes that once Cleveland loses to Golden State, their idea of fixing the problem will be to trade for Melo. Like the Cavaliers are stupid enough to believe Melo is a solution….lol

      Haven’t the deluded noticed that every fantastic trade they propose results in the team receiving Melo losing more games according to the trade machine’s estimate? Lol

      Fools…

      Hernangomez is the new Cole Aldrich. That’s all…

    17. Mark Jackson wasn’t even half the player in his freshman season at St. John’s as Ball is now for UCLA.

      My point wasn’t to compare them at the same stage. I’m just saying that his game reminds me more of a more athletic Jackson than Kidd. When I say that, I’m thinking of the whole package of Kidd, Ball, and Jackson. Kidd brings so much more than stats that he’s head and shoulders above Jackson and any Ball comparison. Ball brings alot to the table for sure. Sometimes I think he gets the Kidd comparison because he’s a big PG. But if you look at Mark Jackson from his senior year at St Johns through much of his career, I see more Mark Jackson than Kidd. A more athletic Jackson. Mark Jackson was far from a scrub, but Kidd was on another level. Ball’s floor is Mark Jackson, and his very high yet attainable ceiling is Jason Kidd. Either way you have a really really good PG, possibly elite when it’s all said and done.

    18. If Hernangomez is a great center, Porzingis is a guaranteed all-time great, Holiday is a great prospect, Cortney Lee is a great player (wasn’t he leading the NBA in 3-point shooting recently?), Baker is a solid rookie, Phil is an exceptional talent evaluator, Melo is the player Cleveland, Boston or Clippers need win it all, etc., etc., why are we so bad and why are we rebuilding? We should just forge ahead with that massive core talent…lol

      Fools

    19. Hernangomez is the new Cole Aldrich. That’s all…

      “If you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth.”

      –Theo Goebbels

    20. @21

      I don’t see it at all. Ball is more a full court/transition speed it up type PG. Jackson made his living in the halfcourt.

    21. 16 points on 7-10 shooting, 5 rebounds (it’s hard going up against Thompson), 5 assists, and 2 blocks

      LOL he missed 4 free throws so that knocked him down a peg in Theo’s evaluation score from Duncan to Mahimi.

    22. Or you could just skip over his posts like I do.

      Lonzo Ball is a player without comparison I think. The guy is a floor general who will likely shoot over 40% from 3 and maintain a usage around or below 25% for his career. It’s rare you have a guy like that on your roster and I can’t think of one other than Steve Nash. He might just be a better rebounding version of Steve Nash.

    23. The guy is a floor general who will likely shoot over 40% from 3 and maintain a usage around or below 25% for his career. It’s rare you have a guy like that on your roster and I can’t think of one other than Steve Nash. He might just be a better rebounding version of Steve Nash.

      So basically we’re looking at John Stockton levels of efficiency.

    24. And then he’s a better athlete than Stockton. I don’t know if he’ll be that good but he’s the surest thing in the draft. The kid screams Hall of Fame.

    25. I’ve said this before but I’d personally draft Ball over Fultz or Isaac. His game is just so conducive to successful team basketball and he’s been more productive in college than Fultz and about as productive as Isaac (not a great indicator of future quality especially with how good UCLA is obviously–but still)

      He’s also probably going to be the funnest prospect to watch in the NBA.

    26. Oh shit! Ball is better than Mark Jackson, Stockton, Kidd and others!

      The delusion has reached fever pitch…fools…

    27. Jesus you’re annoying.

      It’s not me. It’s the truths I tell!

      Forgot to mention, Ball is better than Nash, too!

      At this pace, he will be the best NBA pg ever by late afternoon!

    28. Gun to my head I take Ball over Isaac but I don’t know who will be the better pro. Isaac does everything well for a combo forward and he still has to fill out his frame and tighten up his handle. Isaac could eventually turn into the next superstar in the same mold as Giannis and KD. Ball will make guys better but Isaac’s size affords him a potential level of dominance that Ball can’t attain. Also, you don’t find actual combo forwards in today’s game. When you come across a skill set as rare as the one Isaac possesses you have to think long and hard before you pass him up.

    29. @31

      I agree. The kid has the ability to make his team play at whatever speed he wants the way a musical conductor orchestrates a band. You see him out there and he can change the tempo of the offense with the tempo that he moves the ball around. He’s something of a rarity in a league where “scoring” is prized with tons of volume scorers like Melo who will command high usage rates and slow down offenses to his one speed. Ball can push the ball forward and get his team to scorer fast in transition and yet has a very advanced ability to slow the ball down and wait for a play to unfold out of a halfcourt set. I especially like that we will fill up a box score without having to attempt a crazy number of shots. A player like that will make a team waaaay better by virtue of running it.

    30. As much of a Debbie Downer as Theo is, I do think we would be very lucky to get sensible for us value for Melo. I haven’t seen a lot of games this year, but last night he looked so damn old and slow… guys blowing by him, him not being able to drive around bigs like he used to…he now looks like an at best third option on a contending team. Too many 6-20 like games. Tired of it. The only teams that make sense for him are the Clippers and maybe Cleveland, but neither team has anything we’d want. Phil would have to get incredibly creative to make something work and I haven’t seen anything to make me believe he’s got it in him. I think we’re stuck with him. Stuck with Noah too. So damn sad. Willy is cheap, so maybe they cancel each other out value wise. I hope someone would give us a first for KOQ, and/or Lee. KP would be 50% better with a real point guard. Rose is garbage. I love the Knicks but boy do they make it hard.

    31. @37

      It’s fun to fantasize though

      The thought of a pick and roll with Ball, Willy, and KP makes me all hit and bothered

    32. The Entropy Plan: simply hold onto all of the crappy veterans on bad contracts and let them decline (further) naturally due to age. Reap the increasing rewards of higher draft picks over the years as the team slides from mediocre to flat-out horrible. By the 2018-2019 season when Melo and Noah are watching the games on the bench in a suit, we’ll be in the high lottery.

      It’s not a good plan, but it would probably bring better results than whatever Phil ends up doing.

    33. once I had a student that felt very offended by my classes when i brought up the subject that black people were killed by police in Brazil at a much higher rate than white people… he kept repeating that the statistics were wrong and he was sure that somebody might have altered them, because what he saw in reality was different.

      the students had to write an article atthe end of the semester about any subject discussed in class, and he delivered an article with the title “white people are more unfairly targeted than black people by the police”, providing zero evidence whatsoever… and when he failed the course he went to the directors of the university to argue that I was a racist bigot and he was suffering from reverse racism… the decision was obviously not reversed and he ended up leaving the program, while making a huge ass facebook page calling me stupid and racist for believing in such obviously wrong homicide statistics.

      I have a feeling he might be Theo.

    34. The Clippers trade for Rivers,Crawford and a 1st could’ve been done weeks ago.

      I think it either comes down to Phil asking too much or Melo enforcing his NTC.

    35. Waiting to see if you can get something better is not terrible. It’s not like we’re winning lots of games in the interim.

    36. @42

      the couple of reports we had said that Phil was asking for superstar value out of Melo… if that’s true I think it’s great, because we might settle for a lesser value trade that still brings something useful, be it long term Clippers picks or something like that.

    37. @42

      Word was that Phil didn’t want Crawford’s contract. I don’t blame him. He’s in no rush and the Clippers can wait until they’ve lost more games to come back at us.

    38. We the need the Celtics to spank the Clippers and move them back down closer to .5oo today. Let’s see if they will help our cause out.

    39. Tomorrow might be the biggest tank day of the season. It could be the crossroads which costs us the entire draft. We play the Lakers with lots of our tank competitors playing one another. Its imperative we lose this game. That means Rose comes back, Noah plays serious minutes, Melo is used for 4 quarters, and very little Lee or Willy.

    40. i honestly don’t mind crawford’s contract and it really shouldn’t hold up any discussions… the only other viable piece to make a trade work would be to put in redick and that’s a tall order to ask since they are looking to compete now and he’s important for that..

    41. @51

      Yes, they are the anti-Cavaliers for us. Its about as hard for us to lose to them as it was for us to beat the Cavs. But, hopefully, if we don’t try hard enough we can pull it out.

    42. Hi, I wanted to check in and refine my comments. Brian, all respect Dude. You are of course correct in that we don’t want to settle for mediocrity. I got some negative throwback yesterday (not BC) which happens when I post too much and don’t keep my mouth shut a bit more, I have to admit now, and not reflexively go back into “Melo is part of the solution” mode. Old habits die hard and it’s clear that his days, at least as anything more than a tertiary focus of the team’s plans (except perhaps in cap# frowny face), are numbered. My huge concern in any deal is that we have already paid huge to have him on the team. We can’t pay to get him off, unless as you say, it brings a better collection of assets.

      Still, I wonder if we don’t have the supporting cast. Lee has not played a lot of big minutes in his career has he? Why wouldn’t he remain productive? Is Noah just completely finished? With three more years? This can’t be. Are we that stupid? (prize for the best punchline here). Could he at least provide bench strength behind Guillermo? Could Melo go to the corner and hit threes for a couple of years and play off a real point guard who is the captain of the team? (There I go again, sorry sorry).

      In short! Make good decisions Phil. Good deals or no deals.

      And, one more thing. I think what PHI has done and is doing makes a farce of the sport. Rigging the roster for failure year after year while the fanbase suffers. Then hogging draft assets away from teams that are trying to be competitive. It’s one thing if David Robinson is injured and you choose to develop players for a half season. Or if you’re FA’s didn’t pan out. What they did was game the system. And they STILL STINK and they may continue to because building teams of only first and second year players is as flawed a strategy as building around veteran FA’s. Especially when you consider that you’re getting basically high school kids.

    43. Phil not wanting Crawford makes me think that he’s valuing cap space for next year in a Melo deal if he cannot get a major player like Love (and he is NOT getting Love).

      It’s been pretty quiet since reports from Woj and others that Phil was committed to moving Melo, so I still think something will get done. Maybe the Clips, Timberwolves and Knicks can work a 3 way? We may have gone from wondering if Melo would waive his NTC at all to whether he might actually ask for/encourage a deal. He looked pretty deflated last night.

      Anyone know yet if the T-wolves will just tank now with LaVine out, or will they try to deal for a 2? If so, maybe Lee can be in play if not Melo? If they are willing to deal Rubio (and some cap junk), maybe we can interest them in Lee and maybe OQ/Jennings.

      I still think that Toronto could be interested in OQ (and maybe Holiday, too) for an expiring and a first rounder (theirs will be very late this year). Supposedly they want a big for rebounding/toughness.

    44. Yes, Philly has a made a farce of the sport. I am sure they will rue their decision as they contend for a generation with a core of Embiid, Simmons, and Smith Jr. while teams that play for nothing the right way will strive for perpetual mediocrity while their jaded fanbase celebrates the future Damon Lillard singing in 2025.

    45. I believe that in the end Melo goes to the Clippers if he leaves. CP3 makes him better and he would be happy there. The trade may be on hold because they need Rivers right now with Paul being out. I would hope that there’s a way to include the Wolves in the deal because Reubio.

    46. How is it following the option that makes you more likely to eventually build a championship team making a farce of the sport?

      the option is there, that’s how the lottery works, they just used the system to its extreme.

      If I was a Sixer fan I would be extremely excited about the future and very happy that the franchise decided to tank those years… I would gladly endure 4 years of terrible basketball for a chance to really contend with a young and exciting core.

      Without tanking we are watching the 4th straight season of terrible basketball in New York, so what’s the difference? 15 more wins?

    47. Yes, Philly has a made a farce of the sport. I am sure they will rue their decision as they contend for a generation with a core of Embiid, Simmons, and Smith Jr. while teams that play for nothing the right way will strive for perpetual mediocrity while their jaded fanbase celebrates the future Damon Lillard singing in 2025.

      Yeah this is us in 5 years. Hits too close to home.

    48. The Entropy Plan: simply hold onto all of the crappy veterans on bad contracts and let them decline (further) naturally due to age. Reap the increasing rewards of higher draft picks over the years as the team slides from mediocre to flat-out horrible. By the 2018-2019 season when Melo and Noah are watching the games on the bench in a suit, we’ll be in the high lottery.
      It’s not a good plan, but it would probably bring better results than whatever Phil ends up doing.

      Probably +1 (sigh)

      I am sure they will rue their decision as they contend for a generation with a core of Embiid, Simmons, and Smith Jr.

      So, that’s a lock, right? Let’s assume it is. In ten years, you are correct sir, they will be happy to have endured three sub 20 win seasons followed by a sub 30 win season. My point is more that the system needs tweaking. It rewards losing too much. And… that they’re kind of a-holes for going about it that way as far as, it’s not ten years from now yet for their fans, and issues of you know…competitive balance. Don’t forget that, out and out tanking is frowned upon in competitive circles. When your grandpa and I were young we were horrified that teams would contemplate such a strategy. Not that we haven’t gotten used to it, but still, good to remember.

    49. So basically we’re looking at John Stockton levels of efficiency.

      If Phil is able to draft Ball, and he becomes that- I am BEYOND happy. We’re throwing mighty high praise this kid’s way, let’s not jinx him jim just in case he ends up a Knick

    50. There is an interesting NYT article linked above on why Western Conference teams have regularly outperformed Eastern Conference teams for around a decade. The article gives many reasons, some I disagree with (the FAs are attracted to the West excuse) and others I don’t. But the one which seems most right to me is the fact that Eastern Conference teams are plagued by combination of disinterested, dysfunctional and impulsive management models that Western Conference teams do not practice.

      This whole discussion about the 76ers only highlights the problem to me. Eastern Conference fanbases are really clueless about the sacrifice and gambling it takes to produce a viable winner. They want it now because they’ve been socialized by shitty franchises and their bloated sports media markets to expect winning now, now, now.

      People here can shit on Phil Jackson all they want, and there are many things to dislike about his tenure as GM, but at least he understands that the way forward now is to rebuild from the floor up via the draft. And now that he’s trying to do it, fans can’t wait to see him fired so another GM can come in and start all over again.

    51. Isn’t tanking really fixing games? How is this different from what Shoeless Joe Jackson did and why he’s banned from the Hall of Fame?

    52. People here can shit on Phil Jackson all they want, and there are many things to dislike about his tenure as GM, but at least he understands that the way forward now is to rebuild from the floor up via the draft.

      does he tho?

    53. When your grandpa and I were young we were horrified that teams would contemplate such a strategy.

      When our grandpas were young there were no high priced FAs, salary caps, 30 NBA teams, “me first” superstars who didn’t run the coach’s plays, superteams, etc. The game has changed and now the best way to actually win it is to fully commit to building from the ground up in hopes you can find 2-3 players who might stay on your team together long enough to contend for a title.

    54. The Celtics and Clippers benches are both worse than the Knicks bench. Melo or not, there’s gotta be some trades we can make with them.

    55. Isn’t tanking really fixing games? How is this different from what Shoeless Joe Jackson did and why he’s banned from the Hall of Fame?

      Not really. No one’s telling anyone to lose. If anything you’re just playing “the young guys” and sitting the starters earlier and more often.

      Unless you’re Mark Madsen.

    56. I think he’s still having conditioning issues with the 82 game season–he hit a wall about halfway through the season last year as well.

      Also, I think he’s hunting for his own shot far too often, settling for off the dribble pull ups and post-up fadeaways rather than taking only 3s, dunks, and pick and pop midrangers. I think a lot of this has to do with the other personnel (*cough* Melo & Rose *cough*) and coaching scheme, but probably also hard-headedness on KP’s part.

      And he’s fouling so fucking much.

    57. When our grandpas were young

      I see it. I agree. I might rather see league rules that discourage it and don’t perpetuate it but whatever.

      So, the question is how to go about it. Where are you now? What’s your first chess move. The tankers want all the vets with any years gone and want no money back. Then lose every game. Then get Lonzo Ball if the ping pong balls don’t put us down farther. Do the tankers have takers? This is the question. I’m not sanguine, especially as we’ve spent years here roasting the so called “superstar” Melo. Now it’s that easy to flip him for exactly what we want?

      If we get Ball aren’t we hamstringing his career by having no other assets but he KP and Wily? “The Entropy Plan” allows us to get worse organically, keep our assets, and draft higher as our vets sunset. It’s the same year or two of shit but better at the end.

      I say be patient. We have our own pick and we do suck. We have people who people want. Let them come to us. We have good players who could be better with a better one or two good players. We have cap and Rose has played his way out of town.

      Rose’s #= one quality FA
      Top 10 pick= One more good player
      2nd round picks=Sleepers
      + Wily, KP6…

    58. @69

      It all comes back to the same point with KP. He needs to realize he’s 7’3 instead of 6’3. His career development should be about becoming a player who gets the ball 10 ft. from the basket instead of becoming a player who drives the ball 10 ft. from the basket to pull up and take a jumper.

    59. @70

      it’s not like there won’t be any other players in the team besides Ball and KP + willy.

      trading Melo, letting Rose go and trading let’s say, O’Quinn and Lee, re-signing Holiday, that leaves the Knicks with Ball, Holiday, Lance, KP and Hernangomez, plus Noah, Kuz, Baker and Plumlee on the bench, plus let’s say Jamal Crawford and Austin Rivers.

      is that team really worse than what the Knicks have now?

      if Ball is a star and develops let’s say, in 2-3 years, Crawford and Rivers would be gone, Noah has an expiring contract or has retired, then the Knicks would have a core of Ball Hernangomez KP plus a top 15 pick at least in 2018 plus whatever they can find in free agency…

      is that really a worse situation than what “staying the course” would give us?

      even if the drafted PG is a complete bust, a 100% useless player that is playing in Turkey 2 years from now… what’s the problem? this team won’t contend anyway, and the core players will only get older and worse.

    60. So, the question is how to go about it. Where are you now? What’s your first chess move. The tankers want all the vets with any years gone and want no money back. Then lose every game. Then get Lonzo Ball if the ping pong balls don’t put us down farther. Do the tankers have takers? This is the question. I’m not sanguine, especially as we’ve spent years here roasting the so called “superstar” Melo. Now it’s that easy to flip him for exactly what we want?

      I think I speak for a lot of us when I say I’m absolutely fine with taking money back. If taking on Crawford or Frye or whoever nets us assets, go for it. We aren’t likely to be serious players in free agency before any of these guys’ contracts are up anyway.

    61. I’m still not convinced that Phil is going to tear it all down, tank for a couple of years, and do a total rebuild. More like an on the fly one, a reload. We’ll see in the next couple of weeks, I guess. If he tries mostly for cap space, we might see him spend a bunch like he did last season on Noah and Lee.

      Just dealing Melo does not signify a full rebuild if he feels that he can get a good player (like Love) to plug right in for him. He may just realize that Melo is a big negative for the team and is trying to get something while he has some trade value (if he has any at all…Boston and Cleveland might be educating him about that).

      I think we are HOPING that he goes for picks in any deals for Melo, Lee, OQ, etc.. We don’t know what he’s asked for from Boston. Maybe he isn’t even seeking the Brooklyn pick, but rather a couple of their rotation players like Crowder. Reports are that he’s asking too much, which is okay, but what will he actually settle for?

    62. So, the question is how to go about it. Where are you now? What’s your first chess move. The tankers want all the vets with any years gone and want no money back. Then lose every game. Then get Lonzo Ball if the ping pong balls don’t put us down farther. Do the tankers have takers? This is the question. I’m not sanguine, especially as we’ve spent years here roasting the so called “superstar” Melo. Now it’s that easy to flip him for exactly what we want?

      I am a tanker and have been one for quite some time. If it were up to me I’d have traded assets like Lee and O’Quinn, but I understand not moving them to use in a larger deal for Melo. Ultimately, we should be aiming for future first rounders, especially at a time when the team we’re dealing with is expected to be terrible so we get a high lottery choice.

      Rose’s #= one quality FA
      Top 10 pick= One more good player
      2nd round picks=Sleepers
      + Wily, KP6…

      I wouldn’t even try to acquire a major FA, just get some good deals from some upside players like O’Quinn who may not have gotten a chance elsewhere.

    63. I think he’s still having conditioning issues with the 82 game season–he hit a wall about halfway through the season last year as well.

      Also, I think he’s hunting for his own shot far too often

      I agree on both counts.

      Conditioning seems to be a problem, but he hits some kind of wall after the first month or so. smh That’s kind of ridiculous for a professional athlete. One thing I’ve been wondering about is the extra weight. The team has been focused on getting him stronger, but I think it’s hurting him in other ways. IMO, he has lost some quickness (which is impacting him on both sides of the ball), lost some jumping ability, and it may be a reason he’s getting tired. Young men gain weight naturally as they mature. Maybe the team should stop trying to manipulate his body with diet and exercise and just allow him to gain weight at the natural pace.

      I agree with your other point too.

      Porzinigs is like a taller Gallinari. He’s mostly a spot up shooter, but he can also drive and finish. If you get him a wide open look where he can set his feet and not rush, he’s solid. If he gets a step on a bad defender he can get to the basket and finish or draw a foul. But you really don’t want him trying to create off the dribble and taking jump shots. He looks awkward and isn’t good at it at this stage. For awhile I thought he added that, but he’s not good at it yet. Gallo got better and so will he, but I’d rather see his usage drop a little than watch him take bad awkward shots. What he really needs to work on for next year is post play so they can’t put those small stretch 4s on him. He has to punish those guys inside.

    64. Honestly the best thing Hornacek could do for him and sit him down and make him watch film of how Kuz plays on offense. He *never* takes a contested midranger; he’s always opting for a 3 or for a drive to the rim. That’s how KP should be playing, with the addition of some post ups.

      The only mid rangers he should be taking are uncontested pick and pop jumpers.

    65. @77 Agree 100%. They are probably trying to turn him into a more well rounded player that fits into the triangle on some level but yuck. Mid range sucks unless you are wide open.

    66. Even if we didn’t have KP I think it’s pretty clear who should’ve won out between Melo and D’Antoni

    67. I would love to see Porzingis play just one game with Chris Paul as his PG, running high pick and rolls and throwing down monstrous alley oop dunks.

      Instead. we have a shoot first PG in Rose, and a SF in Melo who NEVER recognizes when KP has a mismatch on defense.

      Sad.

    68. Jonathan Isaac had a very meh game in a Florida rout over Clemson. Need to see him drive his value down.

    69. KP would have to learn to set a pick first.

      I hear you, but that’s not exactly rocket science.

    70. Hornacek and the Knicks seem to be doing a crummy job of developing Porzingis. It’s obvious he has all the talent in the world, but he’s stagnating.

    71. he’s got all the wrong pieces around him, terrible PGs, a 0 offense center in Noah, a super high volume shooter in Melo and the whole triangle idea that doesn’t really benefit him.

      I’m not worried, KP will be fine.

    72. He might be fine in the long run, but they’re wasting a whole year of his development. No bueno.

    73. I am not too worried about KP. His stats are mostly up or about where they were last year, which isn’t too uncommon for a rookie, especially a big. I wouldn’t down play the achilles either having an impact either.

      When he was drafted most of us acknowledged that it was going to take 3-4 years for KP to develop. I would hold the alarm bells if he starts to plateau in years 3 and 4.

    74. http://nypost.com/2017/02/05/jeff-hornacek-the-advantages-of-trading-carmelo-anthony/

      “We’re all competitors and we all want to get there,’’ Hornacek said Sunday. “[But] we have to understand we have to try to develop something for the long term. If we’re just skipping steps just to get in the playoffs, that would be great for this year, then what do you do next year? We want to try to combine those two.”

      “If we’re looking at just trying to make the playoffs, I would say we have a team if we all stay healthy we have a shot at it,’’ Hornacek said. “As far as a rebuild, I haven’t talked about that. We’re trying to get that system in and working, gotten better the last couple of weeks, we’re trying to build on that. If it ends up being a rebuild, we’ll work on that. If it’s the same team we’ll work on that.”

    75. so, right now, 10 teams have worse records than us. 3 of those teams are better than us and will likely end up w/ better records (Philly, Mia, Dallas). that puts us around 8. 4 of those teams (Phx, LA, Minn, Orl) have a PG already.

      I’m not so sure we have to tank all that much to get a PG.

    76. Not sure anyone would pass up on a great PG.

      Boston’s got IT, Suns got too many PGs, Lakers have Russell, Philly’s got TJ, NO has Jrue/Frazier, Wolves have Rubio, Magic have Elfrid, Kings have Collison, Mavs have Seth/D-Will, Miami has Dragic, Porland’s got Lillard.

      No one will likely pass on the top players of a draft based on need, but we can hope, I guess.

    77. @92 Lonzo and Fultz(maybe Smith) seem like can’t miss guys. I could see Fox and Ntilkina falling based on other teams needs which is good for us.

    78. The Celtics and Clippers benches are both worse than the Knicks bench. Melo or not, there’s gotta be some trades we can make with them.

      When I actually try making trades on the trade machine, it’s hard to make them work out salary wise without taking on long term contracts we don’t want or getting a star in return.

    79. I think I speak for a lot of us when I say I’m absolutely fine with taking money back. If taking on Crawford or Frye or whoever nets us assets, go for it

      I don’t want to take money back unless we get very good draft picks out of the deal. Otherwise why bother with the trade. I’m not in favor of just trading one bad long term contract for others

    80. Wetbandit, I hope it works that way, but I don’t see that all those teams think their current PG is the answer. For example, the Lakers have been rumored to be considering trading Russell and Rubio is obviously on the market.

    81. Yeah, I was trying to say that basically all of those teams (aside from maybe Portland) can stand to upgrade at PG and would be expected to pick one up.

    82. , and a SF in Melo who NEVER recognizes when KP has a mismatch on defense.

      Melo force feeds KP more than anyone except maybe Jennings

    83. Lost interest in the SB.

      What do you guys think of the post-Ball/Fultz PG’s anyways? Lots of holes in their games:

      – Dennis Smith: Shoot-first, like Rose in that he likes to drive to the hoop and is a very bad shooter (and tore his ACL), unlike Rose in that he finishes through contact/gets the calls, and actually plays some passable defense. TS .576, WS .188

      – De’aaron Fox: Can pass OK, and defend excellently, cannot shoot, and settles for midrangers. TS 540 WS 201

      – Malik Monk: Poor defender, scorer who can make a ton of threes, but limited in getting to the basket, and doesn’t pass. TS 622 WS 217. Would be great as a SG, probably, but small.

      Shouldn’t it be Monk>Fox>Smith?

    84. Tom Brady looking like Steve Grogan tonight.

      The Porzingis situation is strange. I think the injury and dysfunction have held him back. I think he’ll still get where we want him to go. I don’t think he is ever a top five player but I think top 20 is possible. Going to take a few years but the makeup is there, the physical tools are there, and the skill is there.

    85. Yeah I am starting to worry. He’s just lacking something this year. I know he has the Achilles. But idk. I know Melo for example had a horrible second year and bounced back in year 3.

    86. People are divided about Smith, I think. He’s pretty bad defensively more because of effort rather than a lack of fundamentals–he’s rounding into shape as the season goes on, though. I like Fox a lot and think he’s being a bit underrated because of his ghastly three point percentage, but he’s really the guy that makes Kentucky’s offense go–he actually gets to the basket a fair amount and he’s the second fastest guard in this draft behind Smith (Fox might be faster end to end but Smith has an insane first step.) Monk is very one dimensional and won’t be able to carry that decent efficiency high volume scoring over to the big league effectively enough to cover up for his glaring shortcomings in all the other departments.

      I would say Smith>Fox>Monk but I think the difference between Smith and Fox is smaller than what most people might think

    87. Re: Monk. True, it’s just that he’s such a good shooter, it’s a shame he doesn’t pass or defend (2.9 assists/40, damnit). Maybe I’d take Fox>Monk>Smith, I just don’t like how Melo-like Smith seems.

      About Kristaps. You guys don’t think dealing with Melo/Rose who don’t share too well (and if they do, he’s way out of position), an unhealthy Achilles, trade rumors, and all that have more to do with it? I mean, whenever they’re outscored, you see KP with the second unit playing damn well. I’m not worried. I will worry when we don’t draft/acquire good PG’s over the years to run plays, and capitalize on his talents.

    88. Well rose hasn’t been playing recently, and he played yesterday without melo for big stretches and was pretty much invisible

    89. The problem with our tank is that Melo will have a week of rest. He may come out of the break on a tear

    90. Dennis Smith Jr. has a .530/.576 eFG%/TS% split and shoots 38.5% from 3 on 4.9 attempts a night. Where is this “Dennis Smith Jr. can’t shoot” talk coming from?

    91. If Smith is the one who can p k at defense, I’d rather have him. I’m tired of having one way players

    92. Wow. What a football game.

      Yeah accidentank, I’m going purely by heresay and edited and outdated draftexpress videos. I defer.

    93. Atlanta don’t blow this shit I can’t with the Dark Lord of Football winning another chip and Trump being validated

    94. Never has there been a more readymade political allegory than that game of football

    95. Is this feeling I have right now what it feels like to be an Atlanta sports fan every day of your life?

    96. I love all of the gushing praise for Lonzo Ball. I’m sure he’ll be a great player ….for some team Other Than the New York Knicks. I’ll remember how great everyone on this board predicted he’d be as he makes multiple all star games starring for some other team as the Knicks Are Not Getting That Dude..

    97. I think most likely we are picking between Monk and Ntilikina, maybe Fox as well. But I think Ball, Issac and Smith will all be gone by the time we pick. Right now Issac is back around 6-8 on most mocks but I think he will be the first non-PG taken (I wouldn’t be surprised if he was taken in the top 2) so i’m predicting Fultz, Ball, Issac and Smith all gone by pick 5.

    98. It seems pretty obvious the achilles issue has derailed KP’s season. He was playing great the first couple of months of the season then this achilles issue pops up and he’s looked pretty bad ever since.

    99. kevin5318:“We’re all competitors and we all want to get there,’’ Hornacek said Sunday. “[But] we have to understand we have to try to develop something for the long term. If we’re just skipping steps just to get in the playoffs, that would be great for this year, then what do you do next year? We want to try to combine those two.”

      What’s interesting to me about this quote is that it’s remarkably similar to the quote that was rumored to have been the real reason Derek Fisher was let go: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/isola-dolan-trust-jackson-pick-knicks-coach-article-1.2528932

      Sorry for the Isola source. Believe it was reported elsewhere as well.

    100. That game should have been over the second Julio Jones made that catch. At that point you just run the ball three times, kick the field goal and go up by two scores. Game over.

      Instead they call this horrible deep dropback, slow developing pass play that goes for a 15 yard sack. That is one of the most spectacularly idiotic play calls of all time.

    101. The Super Bowl should serve as inspiration to all Knick fans that the impossible can happen. That just because you’re down doesn’t mean your out. Never give up or tank. Be winners.

    102. Football teams punt all the time. They give up a chance for a successful fourth down play for longer term success. And don’t think that having one of Football’s dynasty teams win another title is encouragement for long suffering Knick fans.

      I’m only even replying to Reub’s post because I’m on a bus with nothing better to do.

    103. Punting is actually an awful idea the majority of the time in football

    104. It seems pretty obvious the achilles issue has derailed KP’s season. He was playing great the first couple of months of the season then this achilles issue pops up and he’s looked pretty bad ever since.

      I can buy that for a few specific games or even the last few weeks, but unless the achilles was bothering him before it became public, he was already slipping before that. It appears to me he has slipped further. So maybe the incremental slippage is achilles related.

    105. Instead they call this horrible deep dropback, slow developing pass play that goes for a 15 yard sack. That is one of the most spectacularly idiotic play calls of all time.

      I really think that that play’s significance will be forgotten in history and it really should not be, since it was shockingly moronic at the time, and that was when they were still in position to win!

    106. It was really unbelievable at the time. Run the ball three times, kill the clock, kill the game. You have one of the best kickers in the NFL. They literally threw the Super Bowl away.

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