Knicks Morning News (2015.12.14)

  • [New York Times] Heat Tip Their Caps to Golden State’s Winning Streak (Mon, 14 Dec 2015 10:21:41 GMT)

    The streak is over, and the Miami Heat know exactly what the Golden State Warriors are going through right now.

  • [New York Times] Durant Scores 31 Points as Thunder Edge Jazz in Overtime (Mon, 14 Dec 2015 04:33:36 GMT)

    Despite being held to one basket in the first half, Kevin Durant finished with 31 points, leading the Oklahoma City Thunder to a 104-98 overtime victory over the Utah Jazz at the Chesapeake Energy Arena on Sunday.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Durant’s Huge Second Half Helps Thunder Defeat Jazz (Mon, 14 Dec 2015 04:30:51 GMT)

    Oklahoma City rallied from a 16-point deficit to beat visiting Utah, 104-98, in overtime Sunday for the Thunder’s second win over the Jazz in a three-day span.

  • [New York Times] Durant, Westbrook Rally Thunder Past Jazz 104-98 in OT (Mon, 14 Dec 2015 03:15:31 GMT)

    Kevin Durant scored 31 points — all but two after halftime — and Oklahoma City rallied from a 16-point deficit to beat Utah 104-98 in overtime Sunday night, the Thunder’s second win over the Jazz in a three-day span.

  • [New York Times] NBA Capsules (Mon, 14 Dec 2015 03:12:30 GMT)

    Dwyane Wade’s jumper with 21.9 seconds left gave Miami its first and only lead of the second half and the Heat rallied from 16 points down to beat the Memphis Grizzlies 100-97 and end a three-game slide on Sunday night .

  • [New York Times] Wade Leads Rally, Heat Beat Grizzlies 100-97 (Mon, 14 Dec 2015 02:42:36 GMT)

    Down by 16 at one point, trailing for the entire second half and staring squarely at what would have been a four-game losing streak, the Miami Heat were in serious trouble.

  • [New York Times] DeRozan’s 25 Points Lift Raptors Over 76ers 96-76 (Mon, 14 Dec 2015 01:51:40 GMT)

    DeMar DeRozan had 25 points, Luis Scola added 22 and the Toronto Raptors beat the Philadelphia 76ers 96-76 on Sunday night to win their fourth straight game.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Game of the Week: Cavaliers at Celtics (Mon, 14 Dec 2015 01:10:45 GMT)

    The Eastern Conference is considerably more competitive this season, and Boston is one of several teams that could knock Cleveland out of first in the standings.

  • [New York Times] St. John’s Finds Shooting Touch in Win Over Syracuse (Mon, 14 Dec 2015 00:46:58 GMT)

    The freshman Federico Mussini had 17 points and four other players scored in double figures for the Red Storm (7-3), who won their third straight and picked up an 84-72 victory in a rivalry that had been favoring Syracuse in recent years.

  • [New York Daily News] Has Knicks’ Kristaps Porzingis hit rookie wall? (Mon, 14 Dec 2015 06:19:42 GMT)

    Call it a rookie wall. A physical threshold. An empty tank. However you define the point of fatigue, Kristaps Porzingis slammed into it.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    45 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2015.12.14)”

    1. So, KP is hitting a wall.
      Not surprising. He looked very flat.
      He’s got a few days to rest. Hope he comes out firing.

    2. Oh, I agree. The Warriors are as dominant as any team has ever been in its own time. And it’s not their fault that the league is watered down right now. They can only play the teams on their schedule.

      If you truly believe that the league they are demolishing (like no other team ever has, maybe) is as strong as the league in the ’85-’98 era, then there’s no arguing the point. My argument is about the competition more than it is about the Warriors. Personnel-wise, I don’t think they compare to the late-80’s Celts or Lakers or Pistons, or the ’90’s Bulls (and maybe some of the great teams the Bulls beat like the Suns or Jazz) or the ’00’s Spurs. They caught the league at the right time.

      If they breeze through the playoffs again, I’ll recalculate. But if they get knocked off by the Spurs, Clips or Cavs, will some of you do the same?

      Sorry for picking up an argument that ended Friday, just didn’t want to let this stand unopposed.

      Z-Man, the ’96 Bulls played in a post-expansion year that is arguably the worst season in NBA history. The late 90s in general were an extremely poor era of NBA basketball, mostly because most of the young talent that came in during the decade failed to develop. Top picks like Larry Johnson, Drrick Coleman, Kenny Anderson, Glenn Robinson, and Chris Webber, for example, never lived up to the enormous contracts that got as rookies. The era the Bulls dominated during their second threepeat run is probably the worst period of basketball in our lifetime, so to say Golden State doesn’t measure up because the league isn’t as good… I can’t buy that. This is a much better league than the league the Bulls dominate from 96-98.

    3. I suppose these Warriors just don’t fit the dominant basketball narrative: to be great you have to show your effort. They’re just gliding.

      In some ways, this is the complete opposite of what happens in soccer.

    4. How about allowing the Warriors to win more than one title before putting them in the Pantheon. I think the Warriors of today would have enormous match up problems with the Celts of Bird, Mc Hale, Chief and Dennis Johnson and have no chance with the Magic, Worthy and Kareem Lakers.

    5. True. Was anyone putting the 80-81 Celtics up there? Bird had yet to win an MVP. Parish was still only a few years removed from being considered an underachiever at GS. McHale was a rookie. The “big three” had yet to be trademarked.

    6. Trading starts tomorrow. Any speculating?

      Calderon for Conley?
      Melo for Lebron?
      Lopez for Butler?
      Seraphin for Draymond?

    7. I just want to remind everyone that about half the posters on this board thought this player could be a good asset for the Knicks:

      http://thebrooklyngame.com/andrea-bargnani-thing/

      You know, in case those posters have an opinion on anything else related to basketball.

      Could you guys just self-identify so I can ignore your posts on Golden State vs. the ’87 Lakers, or whether Willie Cauley-Stein was a good draft choice?

    8. How about allowing the Warriors to win more than one title before putting them in the Pantheon.

      I think the Warriors put themselves in the pantheon last year when they went 67-15 and thoroughly dominated a very competitive western conference on their way to a title. It was the 4th most wins ever. That is a pantheon team.

      What I don’t understand is extending a team beyond one season. The “Jordan Bulls” saw 96% of its roster change over during their championship runs. That’s not a team, that is a franchise. A team is one roster and one season. The ’15 Warriors were a historically great team. And the ’16 Warriors are on pace to be even greater.

    9. I think the Warriors put themselves in the pantheon last year when they went 67-15 and thoroughly dominated a very competitive western conference on their way to a title. It was the 4th most wins ever. That is a pantheon team.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Greatest_Players_in_NBA_History

      Do you see any of the ’14-’15 Warriors on that list? I don’t. No way could they be better than those teams from the 80s and 90s.

      QED

    10. I think the Warriors of today would have enormous match up problems with the Celts of Bird, Mc Hale, Chief and Dennis Johnson and have no chance with the Magic, Worthy and Kareem Lakers.

      You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think the ’96 Bulls would have had an extremely hard time matching up with the dominant teams of the 80’s, as well. That was a time when it was just much easier for the top teams to accumulate elite talent and you ended up with hall of famers coming off the bench.

      But that’s pointless. The best you can do is compare a team to the other teams of its era. And the Warriors are shaping up to be as good as any team we’ve ever seen.

    11. stephen curry has as good a chance as anyone to break that top 10 let alone 50…

      why isn’t oquinn playing more? and i know thomas has shown flashes of being ok but i keep looking at his stats and compared to derrick williams(thought i’d never say that) i can’t help but think that we’d have some more wins if they flip flopped minutes…

    12. THCJ, since you’re being all reminderish, let me just remind you how you called me out last summer for defending the Warriors reasoning after they turned down the Kevin Love trade :)

    13. let me just remind you how you called me out last summer for defending the Warriors reasoning after they turned down the Kevin Love trade :)

      Uh yea. That non trade was slandered mercilessly on this blog. HeHe selective hindsight.

    14. THCJ, since you’re being all reminderish, let me just remind you how you called me out last summer for defending the Warriors reasoning after they turned down the Kevin Love trade :)

      I was wrong, but they still would have been a highly competitive team with Kevin Love at SF/PF. If Draymond Green were involved in the trade, only with the clarity of hindsight we can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that it would have been a bad trade. Klay and Barnes for Love would not have been unreasonable at all.

      But of course since they ended up 67-15, the counterfactual is obviously that they would have been far less with Kevin Love, which is silly.

    15. Since the Warriors didn’t trade for Kevin love and were awesome it doesn’t definitely follow they wouldn’t have been either even better, the same but different, slightly worse but still awesome, or significantly worse with him.

    16. Those 80s teams would have no fucking idea what was happening as Steph rained threes down on them.

    17. Since the Warriors didn’t trade for Kevin love and were awesome it doesn’t definitely follow they wouldn’t have been either even better, the same but different, slightly worse but still awesome, or significantly worse with him.

      You are absolutely right. However, the Warriors were being degraded for not doing it and they won 67 and the chip last year and are 24-1 now. Its not like they made the conference finals and were a decent team, they are being considered an all time team.

      Odds are that would not be the case if they made the trade. Chemistry is a big thing too.

    18. @19

      Exactly. THCJ and others made it seem like a no brainer trade, shit even I thought they should have done it at the time, but clearly they made the right call and are reaping the benefits of that in the form of a championship, which I can bet THCJ didn’t think they’d win when passing up on an all-time legend like Kevin Love in favor of a one dimensional scorer like Klay who coming in to last season was only sporting a 54.5 TS%.

    19. I got that one wrong too. Wouldn’t have surprised me at all if Love had flourished playing off Curry though.

    20. “Could you guys just self-identify so I can ignore your posts on Golden State vs. the ’87 Lakers, or whether Willie Cauley-Stein was a good draft choice?”
      I will proudly self-identify myself as being wronger than wrong about Mr. Bargnani, although my bet is that you don’t appreciate the beautiful irony of your cherry picking one highlight (lowlight?) as conclusive proof that Bargnani is a bad player. I also doubt that you see the irony of your including a straw man in your request that we self-identify — i.e., I’m pretty sure that no one on this site has ever stated that Cauley-Stein was not a good draft choice. I think that I speak for most when I say that the Kings made a really nice pick.
      “I was wrong”
      Gotta admit, I was shocked to see these words…even if they were followed by a speculative qualifier that no one will ever be able to prove or disprove.

    21. I think WCS was a great pick. I would have been happy of we drafted him. He was my choice. I wanted what I considered to be a safe pick. KP was a swing for the fences pick. We’ll know more in 4 years.

    22. If Love was playing with Curry he’d be scoring more as the second option on a team running up and down the court. On the Cavs, he’s the 3rd option playing a different way. The stats can’t be compared.

      There are also too many “what ifs”. We don’t know who else would have been part of the deal and we don’t know how it all would have developed with Draymond Green. Would he have been playing SF in the Love at PF lineups and PF in the Love at C lineups?

      Personally, even now I think Klay Thompson is very good, but a little overrated.

    23. If Love was playing with Curry he’d be scoring more as the second option on a team running up and down the court. On the Cavs, he’s the 3rd option playing a different way. The stats can’t be compared.

      I wouldnt worry about the offense, but i think on defense it would be hard to keep the small ball lineup with Love. David Lee is a fine player, and in some ways similar to Kevin Love, and couldnt get much playing time last year in GS.

    24. It’s early, but Larkin would’ve been the best point guard on this roster and I don’t think the extra $2.8m we had this past offseason was worth giving up on a second year player who was showing improvement. I said that at the time, and at the end of last season.

      Full disclosure: I am a student at the University of Miami ;)

    25. I wouldnt worry about the offense, but i think on defense it would be hard to keep the small ball lineup with Love. David Lee is a fine player, and in some ways similar to Kevin Love, and couldnt get much playing time last year in GS.

      The defense couldn’t be as good if they gave up Klay for Love, but they would be better in other ways.

    26. Yeah I saw that Wiggins article. I thought it was kinda harsh and a little disrespectful to Melo. I think they used his name as click bait.

      Melo is a future hall of famer, but I guess that’s better than saying mvp or Joe Johnson

    27. We thought he was replacing Steve Novak. No one thought he’d be a starter or even necessarily a rotation piece. Some of us ignorant people thought he might find his stroke. The 11 million was coming off the books with STAT and that made the shopping trip possible last summer. The pick is a huge bummer but actually may not haunt us that badly. Especially if we somehow make the playoffs or finally lure a great FA next summer.

    28. Meanwhile the Spurs lead Utah by 40 and are going to end the night with basically the same point differential as GSW. And that’s with Danny Green seriously sucking. Kawhi has put Heyward on a milk carton tonight.

    29. I was wrong, but they still would have been a highly competitive team with Kevin Love at SF/PF. If Draymond Green were involved in the trade, only with the clarity of hindsight we can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that it would have been a bad trade. Klay and Barnes for Love would not have been unreasonable at all.

      But of course since they ended up 67-15, the counterfactual is obviously that they would have been far less with Kevin Love, which is silly.

      Awww, you got off to such a good start with those first 3 words.

    30. Since we’re piling on Jowles here (all in good fun:) here is his direct quote:

      “I can’t believe the Warriors are passing up on one of the best offensive players on the planet over Klay Thompson, who will go from a totally-average player on a rookie contract to a guy making $8-10M because he looks like he might be able to shoot, which is, uh, debatable. What are they doing? Why? Why are they doing this to their fans?” -THCJ, June 21st, 2014

      http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-morning-news-2014-06-21/#comments

    31. The defense couldn’t be as good if they gave up Klay for Love, but they would be better in other ways.

      But defense was what gave the Warriors their identity last year. They were the #1 defensive team, and their ability to keep the ball out of the basket defeated their opponents more than their 3 pt shooting did.

    32. @10-Ok, I hate to admit it, but at first I was of the opinion that the Bargnani trade wasn’t that awful, and maybe he’d turn out to be useful. I raise my hand high, admit I was an idiot, and surrender to the fact tha THCJ will ignore my posts from now on. I also admit I take fiendish delight that he is now sucking big time for the Nets. Schadenfreude

    33. I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t know everything there is to know about this game. I’ve been wrong about many things on this blog.

      But I sure as hell knew that the Andrea Bargnani trade was gonna be an unmitigated disaster the second it was announced.

    34. I thought the Bargnani trade could be beneficial. I thought that we could isolate what he was good at (which honestly is nothing, so I was wrong there) and make him a useful role player. I overestimated how smart our coach and GM were and I’m okay with that. I’ve grown since then and I’ve learned to trust the value of WP/48. The only place players go from garbage to useful is San Antonio. Bargnani was and still is terrible.

      One thing I can say is that advanced stats have trained my eye to see the game from a different perspective. I still love to see aesthetically pleasing basketball, but I understand how harmful it is when a player does very little to make the best use of possessions/generate possessions. So while Seraphin may make a good post move every now and again, I don’t let it fool me. I still understand that he sucks.

    35. And one thing people are understating in the Klay for Love trade is that Kevin Martin would have been a Warrior. Kevin Martin and Kevin Love for Klay Thompson appeared to be a steal because Klay Thompson appeared to be no better than a Kevin Martin. Curry, Martin, Iguodala, Love, Green, Barnes, Bogut, and Ezeli could very well have won a championship last year. It ended up working out for Golden State in the long run, but in hindsight I believe it was a win-win situation.

    36. So while Seraphin may make a good post move every now and again, I don’t let it fool me. I still understand that he sucks.

      What’s interesting about that is that you can see how easy it is for the coach to be fooled, ya know?

    37. Sorry but GS won the non trade. The only evidence we have is that the players they kept on the roster greatly improved last year and they won 67 games and a championship. We also know that Kevin Love on Cleveland last year was largely a dissappointment. We can blame the Cavs coach for that if we want but you do t get to throw theoretical a about how GS would have still been a 67 win team to try and defend that trade. GS was smart to not do it. Give credit where credit is due.

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