Knicks Morning News (2015.04.23)

  • [New York Times] It Might Be Now or Never for Pelicans, Bucks and Celtics (Thu, 23 Apr 2015 08:05:24 GMT)

    In theory, this is where the first batches of real postseason trouble are supposed to start presenting themselves to Golden State, Cleveland and Chicago.

  • [New York Times] Hawks Reach Agreement to Sell NBA Team for $850 Million (Thu, 23 Apr 2015 07:26:34 GMT)

    The Atlanta Hawks are taking care of business during the NBA playoffs — on and off the court.

  • [New York Times] Duncan and Leonard Help Spurs Beat Clippers 111-107 in OT (Thu, 23 Apr 2015 07:05:22 GMT)

    Three days from his 39th birthday, Tim Duncan keeps getting better with age. He smartly stayed on the court while playing the last eight minutes with five fouls, and recovered from a woeful fourth quarter to steady the Spurs in overtime.

  • [New York Times] Roundup: Grizzlies Defeat Trail Blazers to Extend Series Lead (Thu, 23 Apr 2015 06:39:06 GMT)

    Mike Conley and Courtney Lee each scored 18 points, and the Memphis Grizzlies grabbed their first 2-0 lead in a playoff series.

  • [New York Times] Hawks 96, Nets 91: Nets Can’t Sink Shot to Stay Out of Hole (Thu, 23 Apr 2015 04:11:45 GMT)

    Late in the fourth quarter of Game 2, the Nets had a chance to tie the score and potentially even their first-round playoff series with Atlanta, but they couldn’t make the basket they needed.

  • [New York Times] Bulls’ Jimmy Butler Knows the Drill: Work Hard, Get Paid (Thu, 23 Apr 2015 04:11:36 GMT)

    Butler’s junior college coach said determination and a belief in hard work have fueled the Bulls player’s growth as a premier N.B.A. wing, one who will be a free agent this summer.

  • [New York Times] Grizzlies Take 2-0 Series Lead, Beating Trail Blazers 97-82 (Thu, 23 Apr 2015 04:02:53 GMT)

    Known for pounding opponents inside with Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph, the Memphis Grizzlies are showing they can be just as effective outside the paint.

  • [New York Times] Hawks, Ressler Agree on $850 Million Sale for NBA Team (Thu, 23 Apr 2015 03:26:23 GMT)

    Seven months after a racially charged email put the Atlanta Hawks on the market, there’s an agreement to sell the NBA team for $850 million.

  • [New York Times] Millsap Scores 19, Hawks Hold Off Nets 96-91 for 2-0 Lead (Thu, 23 Apr 2015 02:56:47 GMT)

    Paul Millsap answered all those questions about his shoulder. Al Horford didn’t let a dislocated finger slow him down.

  • [New York Times] Oklahoma City Thunder Fire Coach Scott Brooks After 7 Years (Thu, 23 Apr 2015 01:56:22 GMT)

    Scott Brooks did everything but win a championship.

  • [New York Times] Rondo Finished With Mavs, Knee Bumps Parsons From Playoffs (Thu, 23 Apr 2015 00:41:33 GMT)

    Rajon Rondo is out in Dallas.

  • [New York Post] More signs Phil Jackson stalling his big Knicks move until 2016 (Thu, 23 Apr 2015 02:47:24 -0400)

    Tuesday's 45-minute State of Zen address established two elements of patience — team president Phil Jackson is not trading his draft pick for a veteran if the Knicks are picking…

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    108 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2015.04.23)”

    1. Nice game by the Spurs last night. It says something about their coaching and roster composition that they can be down their two starting guards and still take out one of the top four teams in the league in lock-step fashion.

      Patty Mills generaled the offense as calmly as any starting point. Kawhi applied that same lockdown defense that contained Lebron in last year’s Finals on CP3. And a 39 year old Duncan goes Beast Mode on both ends of the floor. Just a beautiful team to watch when they’re flowing.

    2. @1 yep, they have the onions that the Clips do not have. Also Kawhi is sooooo fun to watch, i am a bigger fan every day.

    3. Spurs are also overdue for a breakout shooting game I think. They missed a large amount of wide open 3s yesterday by some of their best shooters. It will be interesting to see how much Pop keeps going to the Hack-A-Jordan going forward. It really didn’t work for them in that game last night. Jordan was missing FTs but the Spurs couldn’t protect the glass, seemed to break up their own offensive rhythm AND got themselves into both serious foul trouble and the bonus. Surprisingly, I don’t think Pop is being very smart about how he’s using it for the most part.

      Still, I’m seeing some serious parallels to last year’s finals where the Spurs looked a little thrown by the aggressiveness of Miami’s D at times in the first couple games, but started to settle into a rhythm and then just blew them away. They looked a lot better against the aggressive PnR hedging yesterday, just didn’t make many jumpers. I think the smart move for Doc might be to switch it up and go ultra conservative on the PnR to choke off the ball movement and date Parker to score 30+ to beat you. I don’t think he has it in him right now (Mills seriously might though).

    4. The Clippers got very good/decent games from 4 of their 5 good players, and everyone else fucking sucked. So it was a Clippers game. It is astounding how badly Doc Rivers has fucked up building a team around one of the best cores in the NBA.

    5. That was something that Reggie Miller mentioned last night that I thought was interesting (which was a serious outlier since he has to be the most annoying commentator in history) – that going to the Hack-A-Jordan slows down the game and allows the Clips to play their starters more, which is obviously advantageous for them because you’re right that the bench is a trainwreck. And to Doc the Coach’s credit, he knows it: 21 minutes for Crawford last night, 11 for Baby and Rivers, 4 for Turk and that’s it in an OT game. Doesn’t get him off the hook for messing up the GM’ing side so flagrantly, but he at least isn’t being stubborn about it.

    6. Did you see Austin Rivers hit the side of the backboard on a layup? Almost better than the space shuttle layup by Shved.

    7. I would also like to point out that as of today ESPN’s RPM still has less clear criteria than FWP48. How are we expected to trust that stat?

    8. we’re going to end up with Rondo. How much is the right amount to pay him?

      Out of respect for Kawhi, please don’t sign him. can you imagine going from Duncan, Parker and pop to Melo?

    9. “we’re going to end up with Rondo”

      Stop putting this shit into the universe please!!!!

    10. I would also like to point out that as of today ESPN’s RPM still has less clear criteria than FWP48. How are we expected to trust that stat?

      Farfa, I’m totally in. At least based on your results as tabulated yesterday! (Also, because the methodology makes sense in accounting for usage better.) Seems like a reasonable adjustment that brings reasonable results.

      Do you want to run it on our FA targets? It might shed interesting light on where we put our money, Monroe v Cory Joseph, Middleton v Tobias Harris, etc.

      As a Schved proponent, I was pleased that the numbers bore out my assertion that he would be a very solid backup. I don’t see issues on D (though he’s certainly not a plus defender), and I see that he brings some positive things on O. Like free throws.

    11. And Chris, we’re not going to end up with Rondo. If you can’t make a mid-range jumper, you are no fit for the triangle. Ain’t happening. Thankfully.

    12. Rama, I’ll do that!

      The real game changer, though, should “marginal FWP48”, as in what happens when Player A usage goes up or down? That would be super useful.

    13. I would also like to point out that as of today ESPN’s RPM still has less clear criteria than FWP48. How are we expected to trust that stat?

      I read ESPN’s explanation of RPM once when they still had an explanation up, and it basically said we take actual plus minus and make a bunch of adjustments of our choosing. They listed enough areas of adjustment that it seemed they could make the stat proved anything they wanted, but didn’t give details of the actual adjustments. So I concluded that it was designed to prove whatever the designer of the stat wanted to, i.e, it’s junk. FWP is much better.

    14. Maybe signing Rondo would be a positive for the Knicks since he would in all likelihood ignore Fisher and all precepts of the Triangle and run whatever he wants.

    15. I read ESPN’s explanation of RPM once when they still had an explanation up, and it basically said we take actual plus minus and make a bunch of adjustments of our choosing. They listed enough areas of adjustment that it seemed they could make the stat proved anything they wanted, but didn’t give details of the actual adjustments.

      Yeah, i’m pretty sure they have put some thought into it; but without a clear explanation, the statistic is worthless. Or at least, it isnt worth more than a random dude telling you who are the better players of the league.

      I don’t understand why dont release the formula for it. It is not like people are dying to know their rankings.

    16. they won’t release it because there are probably lots of arbitrary adjustments that would make them the laughingstock of sports media for actually promoting it.

    17. As funny as that would be, it’s pretty clear if you look closely that it’s not a person’s chips he reaches into, it’s some kind of trainer’s kit, and they’re not chips he grabs, but a chap stick that he uses on his lips. Sorry to be Captain Killjoy.

    18. “we’re going to end up with Rondo”

      I laugh at everyone who is against this. Rondo’s stock is way down. He’s a defense-first point guard who’s only real offense is to drive the lane. I’m OK with having Rondo come here at the bargain price he will. Would you rather have Rondo or Calderon start?

    19. Considering that 5 melos is a defensive crime against humanity and an offensive chuck fest I take 5 chandlers

    20. Id probably take Calderon over Rondo given that rondo has been awful since his acl tear and is a head case in a way that few players are. Unless he shows a spark in workouts or shows real behavioral progress I wouldnt really want him

    21. Id probably take Calderon over Rondo given that rondo has been awful since his acl tear and is a head case in a way that few players are. Unless he shows a spark in workouts or shows real behavioral progress I wouldnt really want him

      This.

    22. Plus I think I would give up a limb to see Rondo on the Kings because that would be hilarious.

    23. I’d rather have Calderon. I think Rick Carlisle and Brad Stevens are excellent coaches and they both don’t seem unhappy not to have Rondo anymore. He’s a guy whose game depends on quickness and he will be 30 next year and has had a major knee injury. Phil is trying to create a coherent team and Rondo is a surly guy apparently. Calderon is older, but good shooting ages well and I am sure he will continue to do what he does for another year or two. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Calderon is great. By Farfa’s numbers, both Larkin and Shved are better than him, and they are both young guys still struggling to make it, which is not a high standard. If I had to pick a notable available point guard to replace him, I would consider Lin, not Rondo. Now Lin’s salary won’t necessarily be unreasonable, he can drive pass and shoot, and I haven’t heard of him being disruptive to a team.

    24. Just to get the party started: what about 5 Chandlers against 5 Melos?

      Bet any amount of money the 5 Melos would very easily have more Wins Produced.

      This guy is just bringing shit up from early 2012 just to piss me off now.

    25. There were way too many stupid comments in the last thread. It was funny but I suggest we ignore it and move on like it never happened.

    26. Re Rondo, and echoing #30: Height and shooting age well; athleticism ages poorly.

      Rondo’s a bit small for a 1 and can’t shoot. His game has historically been based on speed / athleticism, both of which have noticeably diminished since the injury.

      He’d have to be VERY cheap to be at all interesting… like near vet minimum.

    27. The question is who’s going to be the alpha dog on the 5 Melo team. Will Melo defer to Melo, or will he chafe at not getting the ball enough when Melo is going it alone? Will Melo be satisfied parking in the corner while Melo spends 10 seconds iso-ing on the wing? Will Melo be willing to chase perimeter players around, or will he demand that Melo take that job so Melo can relax while guarding the post? A lot to think about.

    28. I know it’s a risk, but I’d like to see the Knicks talk Wes Matthews into a medium-sized deal for multiple years and convince him not to sign for one year and then dive back into free agency when the cap jumps.

    29. As for Rondo, I said it a few threads ago, but I’d be pretty wary even at the vet’s minimum. I’m hearing a lot of Rondo supporters with the revisionist history now about how they knew it wasn’t going to be a good fit in Dallas, when 3 months ago the story was about how he’s a big stage player who wasn’t performing in Boston because he wasn’t interested, and just wait until “Playoff Rondo” came out again.

      Bottom line is he hasn’t shown he can be a good player since the ACL tear, and even before that there’s a question for me about how valuable his skill set really was in the modern NBA. He racked up the assists, but he was consistently “leading” some of the worst offenses in the NBA, and those offenses were consistently better when he was off the floor! He’s a bad defensive player, a head case, and offensively he can’t shoot from anywhere and is scared to penetrate and get fouled.

      I’m not sure why anyone would look at his body of work the last couple years and see more than a vet minimum player. And yes, what he did before that counts, but he’s two years off that ACL tear now, and he’s not exactly young anymore. I wouldn’t want to be the team betting on it.

    30. As for Rondo, I said it a few threads ago, but I’d be pretty wary even at the vet’s minimum. I’m hearing a lot of Rondo supporters with the revisionist history now about how they knew it wasn’t going to be a good fit in Dallas, when 3 months ago the story was about how he’s a big stage player who wasn’t performing in Boston because he wasn’t interested, and just wait until “Playoff Rondo” came out again.

      Rondo just seems to be a unique example of things falling apart the wrong way.

      We knew that their offense would suffer with his addition and their defense would improve. And that’s exactly what happened. Their defense when Rondo was on the court was markedly improved. However, what we didn’t expect was for Rondo to essentially refuse to play Carlisle’s sets (plus, Ellis and Dirk both had dramatic drop-offs in outside shooting which hurt the team a lot – that did not have to do with Rondo, that was just bad luck).

      What can you do when a guy goes on and on about how he wants to play for you, but when he gets there, he pouts and refuses to do what you ask of him, even though you’re an awesome coach who knows what he’s doing?

      I don’t think I’ve ever seen a situation deteriorate quite like this. Even the Sprewell/PJ thing was different than this. That was just off the court stuff. This is on the court.

    31. Give credit where it’s due-Rondo managed to end the season shooting free throws better than 3 pointers.

    32. Marbury – Dantoni?

      Different scenario, but also one that was equally bizarre, just in a different way. I think that was more similar to the Spree/PJ thing, in that it was more off the court than anything. D’Antoni was just a real dick to Marbury that year. Have the guy prepare all training camp as though he is going to be one of your main backup guards, see him play well under this arrangement during camp without any complaining about being taken out of the staring lineup, and then tell him right before the first game, “Oh yeah, you’re not actually ever going to play. Byee!”

      Was Marbury then a dick himself when he refused to play when injuries changed D’Antoni’s viewpoint a week later? Certainly, but D’Antoni started it and it was all for off-the-court stuff.

    33. D’Antoni was just a real dick to Marbury that year. Have the guy prepare all training camp as though he is going to be one of your main backup guards, see him play well under this arrangement during camp without any complaining about being taken out of the staring lineup, and then tell him right before the first game, “Oh yeah, you’re not actually ever going to play. Byee!”

      Was Marbury then a dick himself when he refused to play when injuries changed D’Antoni’s viewpoint a week later? Certainly, but D’Antoni started it and it was all for off-the-court stuff.

      I never understood that either.

      It was a 100% lock from the start that D’Antoni wasn’t going to want to keep Marbury around long term, but why go through that whole song and dance and then pull the plug unless something happened to change his mind that we don’t know about.

    34. Anyone who thinks Reggie is the worst color commentator, clearly doesn’t listen to Chris Webber. The man just. Doesn’t. Shut. Up.

    35. You think Ainge wishes he had traded Rondo a couple of seasons ago? He could have gotten a major haul for him and looked like a genius a few years later for selling high.

    36. But I think it turns on whether Rondo’s current woes are tied to his knee injury, something Ainge might not have known about at the time (whether Rondo would fully recover or not). But yeah, in general, I agree, he should have dealt him earlier.

      What’s funny is that in the current deal, Boston would have won the deal if all they got was Jae Crowder!!

    37. All things considered, he already got more for Rondo than he was/is worth and already looks like a genius.

    38. It was a 100% lock from the start that D’Antoni wasn’t going to want to keep Marbury around long term, but why go through that whole song and dance and then pull the plug unless something happened to change his mind that we don’t know about.

      Since so much talk going into training camp was about how D’Antoni didn’t like Marbury, I think he just wanted to avoid dealing with it until the games counted, so he pretended to be willing to give Marbury a chance until the games mattered, and then he cut the cord.

      D’Antoni could be a weird dude at times. Like benching Nate Robinson for a month and then bringing him back with no change in Robinson’s behavior at all.

    39. All things considered, he already got more for Rondo than he was/is worth and already looks like a genius.

      Yeah, but Rondo was already damaged goods with the ACL. The pick he got from Dallas is lottery protected, I’m pretty sure he could have gotten a lottery pick a few years ago in addition to better players than Jae Crowder.

    40. Yeah, but Rondo was already damaged goods with the ACL. The pick he got from Dallas is lottery protected, I’m pretty sure he could have gotten a lottery pick a few years ago in addition to better players than Jae Crowder.

      He could have gotten more had he dealt him sooner, yes. But it’s not like he got the short end of the stick on the deal he did make.

    41. I think the only reason you sign Rondo is if you actually legitimately believe he can bounce back to Celtics playoff Rondo, and you can get him on a short term-deal as a trial so to speak. Given our history with players, I don’t see that happening for Rondo in NY. Plus I don’t think he’s the kind of guy you want, when so much of the rhetoric coming from PJ is about building a good culture for the franchise. I don’t think Rondo is conducive to that idea. The great thing about Rondo in Boston was that he had guys like KG, Pierce and Allen providing a bit of veteran guidance.

      I would be happy to see us persist with the guards we have. If we could maybe get a guy like Carroll to shore up the perimeter D, and hopefully get Calderon playing at a consistent level with Schved, Larkin and Galloway playing back up roles, that doesn’t look too bad. Not great, but certainly not horrendous.

      Also +1000 for the Rondo to the Kings idea. That would be worth the price of admission, and feels like a very Kings kind of move.

    42. It’d also be funny for Rondo to end up signing with the Kings after he refused to sign an extension there last year (thus nullifying the trade). The Kings would have given up Ben McLemore, Isiah Thomas and draft picks for him then. That would have been a great deal for the Celtics, especially since they ultimately ended up trading a draft pick for Thomas this season.

    43. I don’t mind Leonard being the Defensive Player of the Year, but I’d probably have voted for Draymond Green due to Leonard’s missed time.

    44. What do you folks think about the concept of a division-less league? Do divisions even really matter? Did we all really care about the Knicks winning the division back in 2012-13? Wasn’t it more about them being the #2 seed over the #3 seed? All the drama tends to come down to fights for making the playoffs or seeding, and that doesn’t need divisions, right?

    45. What do you folks think about the concept of a division-less league? Do divisions even really matter? Did we all really care about the Knicks winning the division back in 2012-13? Wasn’t it more about them being the #2 seed over the #3 seed? All the drama tends to come down to fights for making the playoffs or seeding, and that doesn’t need divisions, right?

      I could not agree more. While we’re at it, let’s ditch the conferences too. Top 16 make it and come up with something else for the All-Star Game (like canceling it).

    46. Good God, I have to go from Chris Webber to Steve Smith? Maybe I should just watch these games on mute…

    47. The Warriors can really really shoot the ball….

      Don’t think i can remember a better shooting team…

    48. What do you folks think about the concept of a division-less league? Do divisions even really matter? Did we all really care about the Knicks winning the division back in 2012-13? Wasn’t it more about them being the #2 seed over the #3 seed? All the drama tends to come down to fights for making the playoffs or seeding, and that doesn’t need divisions, right?

      I don’t particularly have a problem with conferences, but you could probably do away with the divisions. At the very least get rid of the rule that a division winner gets a top 4 seed despite their record.

    49. I don’t particularly have a problem with conferences, but you could probably do away with the divisions. At the very least get rid of the rule that a division winner gets a top 4 seed despite their record.

      That’s the thing, though, if you get rid of the only advantage a division winner has left, then you might as well get rid of divisions, right?

    50. I actually think the Pelican logo is one of the best in the league. They did a nice job with it.

    51. Odd seeing a team as good as the Dubs getting beaten this thoroughly. I’d trade the next 10 first round picks we could trade for Davis

    52. Did you know Eric Gordon shot almost 45% from three this season? Wow. Of course, he had to then miss that three badly.

    53. Can I blame Tyrek Evans for going away from Anderson when he was torching Green and sparking a Warrior run.
      Plus, can Davis get/demand the ball?

      Also, what could Livingston had been If He didn’t get injured? I know how hard that injury is and then some. I dislocated my knee in a car accident. It was crazy but boy was I blessed.

    54. Can I blame Tyrek Evans for going away from Anderson when he was torching Green and sparking a Warrior run.
      Plus, can Davis get/demand the ball?

      Yep, Evans has never been a big basketball IQ guy. The problem with Davis demanding the ball is that they’re not good feeding him.

      Also, what could Livingston had been If He didn’t get injured? I know how hard that injury is and then some. I dislocated my knee in a car accident. It was crazy but boy was I blessed.

      Yeah, it’s a real shame. But he’s come back at least and played well.

      Wow, that was a big time shot by Curry.

    55. Good job preserving those timeouts, Monty.

      I think Williams needs to get him one of those really smart assistant coaches to help him on strategy. He’s excellent with the players, but not so great with the whole strategy thing.

    56. NO deserves to lose this. Just think about it, Davis; in New York, you won’t have to play the Warriors but twice a year.

    57. That should have been a 4-point play.

      I don’t think you can foul a shooter any more blatantly. Two guys dove on top of him as he released it.

    58. Davis is still very young. And he has dumb teammates, so it is not a good combo when things get tense at the end.

    59. Davis is still very young. And he has dumb teammates, so it is not a good combo when things get tense at the end.

      Could be good for us.

      A man can dream!

    60. Why is Asik in? He is a waste right now. I know they were getting killed on the boards but he is not impacting the game at all.

      Also, I know he is a special special one and only type player but watching Curry really has me hoping the Knicks can/will draft Russell.

    61. AD makes a lot of dumb moves at the end of games for such a great player. Still, he’s extremely young.

    62. What did the Pelicans get in the Lopez trade? I think they’ll let Asik go and should go after Tyson, Carroll, or Danny Green. I think they only have room for one but they need a player that can defend and shoot the 3 or Tyson to replace Asik.

    63. Draft rights to Jeff Whitney and a future second round pick (plus cash). It was an added part of the deal with the Kings for Tyreke Evans (they turned a two-team deal into a three-team deal). I really don’t see how they decided to take Eric Gordon and then add in Evans and Holliday.

    64. Rondo will sign with the Lakers , so we don’t have to worry about him coming to the Knicks. This is probably a good thing given his current level of play.

      Good luck with that in Laker Land, dude seems like a total train wreck.

    65. Rondo doesn’t want to shoot and all Kobe wants to do is shoot, so that should be a good combo.

    66. Rama, here’s your FWP48 2014-15 scores for some prospective free agents as you requested:

      Rajon Rondo (Dallas stint): -0.003
      Robin Lopez: 0.037
      Amir Johnson: 0.052
      Khris Middleton: 0.082
      Cory Joseph: 0.094
      Draymond Green: 0.116
      DeMarre Carroll: 0.123
      Danny Green: 0.145
      Greg Monroe: 0.146
      Rajon Rondo (Boston stint): 0.161 (crazy, huh?)
      Jimmy Butler: 0.224
      Kawhi Leonard: 0.256 (yup, better than LeBron)

      So, to recap:

      Greg Monroe seems to be the best, of all the attainable prospects, at being a focal point of offense while producing something of value.
      Khris Middleton, although bound to improve, seems less suited than Danny Green and DeMarre Carroll at being an offensive weapon (quite surprising). Danny Green in particular seems to be poised to be a good third scoring option.
      Cory Joseph would be a good pickup.
      Draymond Green offensive contributions might be overrated.
      Robin Lopez and/or Amir Johnson are positive, if marginal, contributors.
      Jimmy Butler might be a very good primary offensive option for a long time.
      Kawhi Leonard is a fucking superstar.
      Rajon Rondo needs the key to the offense to be a great contributor, even when he shoots like shit. When put in a less free system (cough Triangle cough) he becomes a negative contributor.

      Pretty much what we already knew, minus the middling Middleton numbers and the very quiet Draymond Green numbers (I expected something better, to be honest).

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