Knicks Morning News (2015.03.06)

  • [New York Daily News] At wake, fans, friends honor former Knicks forward Mason (Fri, 06 Mar 2015 03:58:10 GMT)

    A snapshot flashed on the screen of Greater Allen A.M.E. Cathedral of New York, Anthony Mason and John Starks.

  • [New York Times] Portland’s Matthews Ruptures Achilles, Out for Season (Fri, 06 Mar 2015 07:55:07 GMT)

    Trail Blazers guard Wesley Matthews ruptured his left Achilles tendon in Portland’s game against Dallas on Thursday night and is out for the season.

  • [New York Times] Blazers Win Fifth Straight With 94-75 Victory Over Mavericks (Fri, 06 Mar 2015 07:25:00 GMT)

    The mood was somber in the Trail Blazers’ locker room following their victory over the Dallas Mavericks. The win had come at a cost, with Wesley Matthews lost for the season because of a ruptured Achilles tendon.

  • [New York Times] E’Twaun Moore Lifts Bulls Past Westbrook, Thunder (Fri, 06 Mar 2015 05:25:10 GMT)

    E’Twaun Moore finished off Russell Westbrook and the Oklahoma City Thunder.

  • [New York Times] Bulls Top Thunder (Fri, 06 Mar 2015 04:39:53 GMT)

    The Bulls rallied to beat the Oklahoma City Thunder, 108-105, in Chicago.

  • [New York Times] Anthony Mason, a Former Knick and a Native Son of Queens, Is Mourned (Fri, 06 Mar 2015 04:18:35 GMT)

    Mr. Mason was a combative player in the Knicks’ mid-1990s heyday, a tough defensive specialist who sometimes clashed with opponents and, occasionally, with his own coaches.

  • [New York Post] Knicks radio voice: Star prospect Mudiay impressive, but flawed (Fri, 06 Mar 2015 02:43:25 -0500)

    When he's not calling the Knicks as the team's radio voice, broadcaster Mike Crispino has gotten a chance to do what most NBA fans haven't done — watch top-5 draft…

  • Liked it? Take a second to support Mike Kurylo on Patreon!

    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    128 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2015.03.06)”

    1. Wesley Mathews is out for the season with a ruptured achilles tendon (probably 8 month). There goes another Knicks free agency target.

    2. Depends. We could always buy low, it could be a boon (not that I would wish injuries on anyone).

    3. Not sure how low we could really go to get Matthews though. All things being equal if we don’t put up a price others won’t match, I don’t see Wesley coming here or leaving Portland.

    4. Idk about that. Portland clearly is pushing to enter title contention. Committing long-term dollars to a guy who in likelihood won’t be ready until January at the earliest would be quite risky for them. If the Knicks offered 3 years, 27-30m for him idk if they’d match.

      I also highly doubt the Knicks would sign a guy who won’t be ready for the start of next season and honestly an Achilles rupture is a very difficult injury to recover from. Prayers out to Wes who really deserves better luck than this.

    5. I don’t know why people keep saying that Matthews is young.

      He’s gonna be 29 when next season starts.

      I’m not against signing him, but his age is not in the “pros” column

    6. Tough luck for Mr. Matthews. He just lost millions of dollars.

      I continue to be fascinated by OKC and the Clippers. Both teams have a few fantastic players and both have done such an incredibly bad job of finding even mediocre basketball players to surround them with. Enes Kanter? Dion Waiters? And you keep Jeremy Lamb on the bench? What are you doing?

      And Austin Rivers? Big Baby Davis? What are you doing Doc Rivers? oh my god, is that Hedo Turkoglu?

      Getting the superstars is supposed to be the hard part of team building. How do you fuck up the part where you get 4 or 5 guys who aren’t awful?

    7. Well, I think we know the reasoning behind the otherwise inexplicable love for Austin Rivers. ;)

      Thank goodness Mike Woodson never had a kid playing in the NBA while he was here.

    8. Yea when Melo was 29 he was Damn near 35 on this board lol.

      Just keep that in mind the next time you want to say, “How did this unrelated conversation turn into a discussion about Melo?” ;)

    9. That’s my point though. With an achilles injury it takes time to heal, and even when healed it takes time to get back to what you used to be as a player, if you ever truly get back. I think this injury hurts his chances of leaving since most other teams wouldn’t want to invest in someone that by rights will take a full year to recover (physically and mentally). And to pay 9 to 10 mil a year to a player like Matthews healthy is a good investment. To do the same to one that’s coming off of that injury would be even more hampering to the franchise because he’s probably not going to be that player anymore.

      There’s never a good time to be injured. But right before free agency, that’s absolutely horrible for him.

    10. Seeing some of the love for Matthews out on Twitter was really sweet. I love that he apparently has taken Meyers Leonard, of all players, under his wing. How many guards take back-up centers under their wing?

    11. Yeah, Matthews definitely lost millions and millions of dollars with this injury. If I’m him, I think I sign a make good one-year and then go back into free agency next offseason at 30 years old when every team will have beaucoup bucks to spend.

    12. Thinking about Mike Woodson’s kids reminds me that Melo is wildly overpaid relative to his production.

    13. DRed – watching the sun rise in the east reminds you that Melo is wildly overpaid relative to his production.

    14. Thinking about Mike Woodson’s kids reminds me that Melo is wildly overpaid relative to his production.

      Ha! It looks like you fell victim to Poe’s Law there. :) Or did ephus fall victim to it? Either or, I guess.

    15. I continue to be fascinated by OKC and the Clippers. Both teams have a few fantastic players and both have done such an incredibly bad job of finding even mediocre basketball players to surround them with. Enes Kanter? Dion Waiters? And you keep Jeremy Lamb on the bench? What are you doing?

      I’m more interested by OKC, because with the Clips I assume the answer is as simple as “Doc is a garbage GM”. The answer might be the same for OKC, which is fascinating, because about 3 years ago I think the default assumption was that Presti was really, really sharp. But since their incredible run in the draft (seriously, picking Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka and Jeff Green in the course of 3 drafts is beyond insane) he hasn’t really done anything right. The Adams pick was pretty good I guess, but almost every other move or non-move (*cough* Brooks *cough*) has been somewhere on the spectrum from bad to worse. Maybe he’s just a really good drafter who’s just not a good GM otherwise? Also they still have a pretty real chance to win the title this season, so this post may end up looking fairly dumb.

    16. His worst move as a GM, though, was a deal forced on him by cheap ownership. Imagine the Thunder if they still had Harden. Holy shit, right?

    17. “oh my god, is that Hedo Turkoglu?”
      Funny, when I saw the replay of Chris Paul yelling at Jordan for not shooting, this was my exact reaction. I really thought that Turkoglu was out of the league about 3 years ago.
      “Maybe he’s just a really good drafter who’s just not a good GM otherwise?”
      Or maybe that three year run was the equivalent of a mediocre player who, for a season or two, can’t seem to miss a shot in the last 10 seconds of games, but then, for the next 10 years, can’t seem to sink one. It seems like he’s made some bad decisions lately.
      “The mere mention of Melo’s name makes me want to fire Jackson.”
      Is anyone else starting to suspect that the Captain is really Dogrufus making a reappearance after a few year absence?

    18. Or maybe that three year run was the equivalent of a mediocre player who, for a season or two, can’t seem to miss a shot in the last 10 seconds of games, but then, for the next 10 years, can’t seem to sink one.

      So you’re saying he’s the Melo of GMs. (I can play the bring Melo’s name up in anything too!)
      There was a run in Denver when game on the line, Melo was taking and making that shot. His whole Superstar mystique grew from those shots.

      Presti’s mystique is similar in a way, He drafted amazingly and luckily, Portland skipping Durant was just dumb luck. But he should’ve found a way to convince ownership Harden was a player they needed. OKC with Harden, that would have been a scary team (so long as they didn’t do the Perkins blunder).

    19. The other thing about OKC is that Presti’s blunders could be limited if they had a coach who didn’t keep running out the inferior option (Perkin, Waiters). I wonder if Brooks is told who to play, or he comes up with this shit by himself?

    20. I think Presti’s doing exactly what they’re asking of him (they being the ownership of the Thunder). He got lucky in drafting in the lottery, but he was also very good at finding value in the mid-to-late first round.

      The problem is that he’s been almost always forced to do deals thinking at the team’s finances and not so much at the end result (and he still brought the team to multiple WCF, even with injuries galore to crucial players). I don’t like his last deals, but he kept on bringing along young players on rookie contracts, so I guess the plan will always be to bring in cheap talent and try to make it work from there. I’d argue that doing that with Waiters is borderline impossible, but who knows.

      I also doubt they’ll ever fire Brooks, because they’d need to bring along another coach and pay two coaches at the same time.

    21. Dion Waiters is the worst 2 guard in the NBA. Playing him real minutes on a team with Durant, Ibaka and Super Saiyan Russel is a basketball atrocity. You could have picked a backup 2 out of a hat, traded a first round pick for him, and wound up with a much better player than Dion Waiters.

    22. My old snowblower was inefficient so I bought a new one, and man, does it throw snow, it’s a real volume shooter. But it works so well that it shoots snow onto my neighbor’s driveway, but I don’t care, when it comes to snowstorms, it’s me first

    23. Let’s take a minute to remember that Cleveland drafted in consecutive drafts Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters at #4 and Bennett at #1. That’s some serious incompetence there (Tristan Thompson is a pretty good offensive rebounder, but that’s exactly what you could get from Kris Humphries, so… well.).

    24. I really do not put Kanter into the fail category just yet. I guess it depends on if he is retained and the price he is retained at.

    25. Those OKC run reminds me of the mid 80s Cavs. In 1986 alone they drafted Brad Daugherty, Mark Price, Ron Harper and our very own Johnny Newman. They actually had another legit rookie that year in Hot Rod Williams, who was a 2nd pick in ’85 and played for a year in the USBL. That’s a championship contending starting five in one rookie class. And the next year they took KJ!

      You can’t cut Presti any slack because Brooks is awful. Even if you ignore that Brooks is Presti’s responsibility, he knows who his coach is. And so he should know that free options like Waiters aren’t free when you have a coach who can’t evaluate talent. Oh, and they weren’t free anyway.

    26. The Harden trade was quite clearly not Presti’s fault as much as Clay “pennysaver” Bennett deciding that since poor little OKC is a small market team they couldn’t amnesty Perkins and keep the reigning Sixth Man of the Year at the time. Even if we didn’t know Harden was going to be as good as he is, it was fucking obvious he was going to at the absolute minimum be a top-3 SG for the next decade or so on top of giving OKC an extra gear off the bench.

      Getting Augustin, Singler and Kanter at the expense of Perkins and Jackson is a big win no matter how you view it. Just on the virtue of losing one of the worst players in the league and a malcontent chucker while replacing them with younger, albeit replacement level pieces is a win.

      The Waiters deal was really Knicks-esque.

      Overall you still have to say Presti’s done a very good job, but if they come up short again this year and hold on to Brooks it might be time for both of them to go.

    27. Let’s take a minute to remember that Cleveland drafted in consecutive drafts Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters at #4 and Bennett at #1. That’s some serious incompetence there (Tristan Thompson is a pretty good offensive rebounder, but that’s exactly what you could get from Kris Humphries, so… well.).

      To defend them ever so slightly, Thompson is turning into a pretty good player. His defense has improved a lot this year, which is where the comparison with Humphries breaks down completely. He’s a solid rotation big on a championship level team right now, and still just 23 years old. It’s not what you dream about with a top-5 pick obviously, but it’s far from a disaster.

      Also Bennett is bust-tacular of course, but you have to grade that one on a curve, because that draft was absurdly bad. Seriously, two years in it looks like there’s at least a possibility that nobody from that draft ever makes an all-star team (Greak Freek probably will someday, but Gobert, Schroder and maybe Oladipo seem like the only other real possibilities). It’s a whiff, but it looks like about 7 of the top 10 picks were also whiffs, so make of that what you will.

      The Waiters pick was brutal though. I won’t try to defend that one (and then they compounded it the next year if you believe that Waiters was the reason they passed on Oladipo).

    28. Also Bennett is bust-tacular of course, but you have to grade that one on a curve, because that draft was absurdly bad. Seriously, two years in it looks like there’s at least a possibility that nobody from that draft ever makes an all-star team (Greak Freek probably will someday, but Gobert, Schroder and maybe Oladipo seem like the only other real possibilities). It’s a whiff, but it looks like about 7 of the top 10 picks were also whiffs, so make of that what you will.

      But Bennett was always an awful choice. Len would have been a far better choice than Bennett and the blindingly obvious choice was Oladipo who has improved quite a bit in his 2nd year and would have been a nice backcourt partner with Irving, certainly more so than fucking Waiters.

      Thompson is a turning in to a nice rotation big, but the problem is Cleveland GM Lebron James is going to make sure Thompson gets paid richly and well more than he really deserves.

    29. The problem seems to be that the market might be so messed up that Thompson might get even more money than the big extension he turned down from GM Lebron!

    30. But Bennett was always an awful choice. Len would have been a far better choice than Bennett and the blindingly obvious choice was Oladipo who has improved quite a bit in his 2nd year and would have been a nice backcourt partner with Irving, certainly more so than fucking Waiters.

      Obviously, it goes without saying that it was still a bad choice. I’m just saying it deserves mention that not all complete misses with the #1 overall pick are created equal, and that the Bennett one was about as forgivable as they get. Oladipo should have been the pick, and in an alternate reality where they picked Drummond over Waiters they probably would have made the right pick with Oladipo in which case there’s at least a chance that alternate reality Cavs would be STACKED.

    31. Just read the Grantland article on Mudiay. I didn’t realize he got 1.2 million. Not sure how much longer good HS players are going to waste their time going to college. If I had a son, and he was inexplicably really good at basketball there is no way he’d be going to college. You go overseas and get that money son.

    32. I’m not making any Tristan Thompson comments until next year.

      Ha! I admit that I was thinking the same thing.

    33. At least GM LeBron is not paying his one-trick-pony friends and himself “well more than they really deserve” to have the worst record in the NBA and franchise history. GM LeBron has a knack for assembling teams that can go to the finals and even win some rings. Wish we could say the same about other, closer-to-home “GMs”.

      We get it you don’t like Melo. You don’t need to turn every fucking comment in to some diatribe about him when it’s not even relevant to the point being made.

      Obviously, it goes without saying that it was still a bad choice. I’m just saying it deserves mention that not all complete misses with the #1 overall pick are created equal, and that the Bennett one was about as forgivable as they get. Oladipo should have been the pick, and in an alternate reality where they picked Drummond over Waiters they probably would have made the right pick with Oladipo in which case there’s at least a chance that alternate reality Cavs would be STACKED.

      True. Scary to think about.

    34. My wish list for next season:
      1. A Healthy Melo
      2. Bring back Cole, Amundson, Shved, and Thomas.
      3. Leave the PG spot as is- unless Calderon can’t return as an effective player from injury. In that case- Phil’s gonna hafta go hard at Reggie Jackson and spend a ton of money. Also play Shved as a combo guard with a lot of minutes at SG.
      4. Mudiay or Anthony-Towns in the draft.
      5. Greg Monroe or Roy Hibbert to shore up the front line.
      6. If Hibbert’s the guy, then Phil should go after Tristan Thompson or Draymond Green(probably out of the price range by now).
      7. If Monroe’s the guy, then Phil should go after someone like Robin Lopez or definitely draft Anthony-Towns
      8. We need 1-2 more shooters…so maybe Phil can see if Chicago or LAC likes TH2 enough to give up a Dougie McBuckets or JJ Redick.

      If that is at all possible, then I think NYK will be more than on their way. We would still need another PF so maybe Phil can bring Acy back on the cheap as well.

    35. presti gets a bad rap… he has a pretty ridiculous draft record… durant was automatic but harden and westbrook were far from that… ibaka, reggie jackson, adams… hell perry jones was pretty good at the time…

      he gets a bad rap for the harden trade and he didn’t have a choice there… when you have to trade a great player you very rarely get anywhere near equal value back.. he had no leverage and took an ok deal…

      the infatuation with brooks is really what has held okc back but i think it’s because the players, namely durant and westbrook, are very loyal to him…. they probably deem the risk of bringing in a new coach that might do better not worth the risk of losing durant/westbrook when they hit free agency…

    36. But Bennett was always an awful choice. Len would have been a far better choice than Bennett and the blindingly obvious choice was Oladipo who has improved quite a bit in his 2nd year and would have been a nice backcourt partner with Irving, certainly more so than fucking Waiters.

      this is why if you’re picking high in the draft .. you draft the best player available … drafting for need is stupid when you’re bad…

    37. We get it you don’t like Melo. You don’t need to turn every fucking comment in to some diatribe about him when it’s not even relevant to the point being made.

      @ LAVOR POSTELL
      Who died and left you in charge?
      Personally attacking another poster because you don’t like his comments is far more offensive than any basketball related opinion that someone expresses, no matter how often or how much it is to your disliking.

    38. Who died and left you in charge?
      Personally attacking another poster because you don’t like his comments is far more offensive than any basketball related opinion that someone expresses, no matter how often or how much it is to your disliking.

      I didn’t personally attack him buddy, but maybe you should work on reading comprehension which is a personal attack.

    39. I didn’t personally attack him buddy, but maybe you should work on reading comprehension which is a personal attack.

      hoolahoop being bad at reading comprehension reminds me of the fact that Melo is bad at basketball. Pretty similar imho.

    40. Going ‘fanboy’ on me? Sorry, it won’t have an effect.

      I will continue expressing my opinion until you develop an ulcer because if you are allowed to criticize LeBron and anyone else you want, it’s pretty silly you cry like a little girl and try to intimidate fellow posters when anyone criticizes Melo.

      Get a grip. Grow up.

      Lol yeah I’m so pissed when people criticize Melo. That’s why I’ve been responding to everybody, every single day when they do that right?

      You’re the one getting offended that I asked you to not bring him up when what I was saying had zero to do with him, but you’re just a one trick pony. Your only contribution to any basketball discussion is to tie it in with Phil Jackson’s stupidity and Melo not being good at basketball so it’s not very surprising I guess.

      You telling me to grow up is one of the more amusing things I’ve read today. Keep up the good work. I love ending my week with a good laugh.

    41. May I interrupt and ask a basketball question? Hibbert is going to cost a lot of money. He’s a great defender, but he’s not real good at much else on a basketball court. Is his defense “elite” enough to warrant paying him big money? Of course, my big fear is that the Knicks will sign him and the NBA will suddenly decide that this “going straight up” thing is a bunch of nonsense and he starts fouling out in the first half of games…

    42. So Tom Hanks has been court side for at least 2 Knicks games this year. He’s from Cali, and he lives in LA, so what is he up to? He cant be at the garden to watch good basketball. I’m telling you, the whole thing stinks

    43. May I interrupt and ask a basketball question? Hibbert is going to cost a lot of money. He’s a great defender, but he’s not real good at much else on a basketball court. Is his defense “elite” enough to warrant paying him big money? Of course, my big fear is that the Knicks will sign him and the NBA will suddenly decide that this “going straight up” thing is a bunch of nonsense and he starts fouling out in the first half of games…

      This actually reminds me of how one dimensional Melo is.

      Seriously though is this Hibbert talk a rumor going around or something people think will happen? I don’t see Hibbert opting out when he’s on a max through next year and could be an FA when the cap explodes while reaping the financial benefits of being on a team that will improve with Paul George’s return.

      I don’t think his defense offsets his less than stellar rebounding, horrible scoring efficiency or the fact he’s a liability when played 30+MPG. Also he seems very insecure and I don’t think he’d be able to handle the pressure of playing in New York when he’s already been less than warm with the media in Indiana.

    44. I asked you to not bring him up . . . .

      Again, who died and left you in charge?

      . . . you’re just a one trick pony. Your only contribution to any basketball discussion is to tie it in with Phil Jackson’s stupidity and Melo not being good at basketball so it’s not very surprising I guess.

      The irony is that Cap Luke knows much more than you about knicks player personnel, management and the nba in general.

      I didn’t personally attack him buddy, but maybe you should work on reading comprehension which is a personal attack.

      “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” – Socrates

    45. I’d stay away from maxish Hibbert. He’d give us a different look as he’s a terrific defender who is awful on offense, but for the money I don’t think you can play defense well enough to make up what he gives back with his bricklaying.

    46. Again, who died and left you in charge?

      The irony is that Cap Luke knows much more than you about knicks player personnel, management and the nba in general.

      “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” – Socrates

      I almost cared about anything you said but then I realized I don’t give a shit.

    47. Hibbert, to me, is a guy you add to an already good team. He’s a lot like Chandler in that respect. I wouldn’t be trying to build any sort of team around him.

    48. For the record, I once again attempted to steer the discussion to Americas greatest villain, Tom Hanks

    49. Is tom banks a better value at the max than melo though? Lets ask hoola amd captain luke!

    50. @BC

      Do you think Hibbert is better defensively than Chandler and if so is he so much better that it offsets his shitty and counterproductive offensive contributions than Chandler’s limited but highly positive offensive production?

    51. Just read the Grantland article on Mudiay. I didn’t realize he got 1.2 million. Not sure how much longer good HS players are going to waste their time going to college. If I had a son, and he was inexplicably really good at basketball there is no way he’d be going to college. You go overseas and get that money son.

      Right? I hope that happens and college basketball dies.

      Speaking of which, nice article about the Kentucky Twins:

      http://grantland.com/the-triangle/karl-anthony-and-cauley-stein-kentuckys-two-headed-monster-is-the-future-of-the-nba/

      I confess to not watching much, only reading, but damn everything I read tells me I want Towns over Okafor.

    52. Justin Bartha for the MLE is the most bang for your buck. Unless you can get Rihanna with a veeeeery thin white shirt like that time at a Nets game. That is worth a mega max with an NTC.

    53. he gets a bad rap for the harden trade and he didn’t have a choice there… when you have to trade a great player you very rarely get anywhere near equal value back.. he had no leverage …

      You realize you’re on knicks forum, right?

      He could have done much better.

    54. More on Towns v Okafor below. I’ve been low on Okafor all year, hoping a better prospect would emerge. It seems like Towns is it, if Andrew Sharp at Grantland knows what he’s talking about:

      Towns fits perfectly with where the NBA is going. Post-up power forwards have turned into the NBA’s version of running backs. They will never disappear, and a potentially great one (like Okafor) will always help. But you can get by without one, and honestly, you might be better off.

      That’s what makes this draft interesting. Fifteen years ago, Okafor-Towns would have made for a great draft debate. In 2015, it just won’t. Or at least it shouldn’t.

      Towns can be the centerpiece of an offense one day, but he’ll also anchor a defense. He’s good enough at the rim to let a coach go small to space the floor around him with shooters. He doesn’t have the freakish guard skills of Anthony Davis, but that’s the wrong comparison. Think of the Orlando version of Dwight Howard, but with better free throw shooting and the ability to hit a face-up jumper.

      Building your team around a low-post scorer with defensive questions is fine, but it requires an all-in investment. It consumes the identity of your offense, and you still have to find help down low on defense. And most of the best teams in the NBA are going in the other direction. This is the problem that’s been vexing the Kings for as long as they’ve had Boogie Cousins. This problem would not exist with Towns.

    55. I thought that 76ers piece already showed us that Sharp doesn’t know what he’s talking about in general.

    56. I think Okafor is a victim of over analysis because of his lofty standing entering the year. He has elite post skills both in terms of scoring and passing the ball where he already excels at seeing the double team and passing out of it to open shooters. Defensively he has work to do, but for somebody who’s received rave reviews for his work ethic and coachability (Towns gets the same plaudits) it’s very possible he can improve in that regard and certainly should once an NBA team gets to putting him on a diet and fitness program to help shape what is already a crazy 6’11, 270 lb frame.

      I like Towns a lot too and the gap is closer than I initially thought and I’d be really happy with either, but I would go with Okafor.

    57. I’m not familiar with his work, Farfa, it just caught my attention today because he was writing about players we might draft. What did he say?

      And, apropos to nothing… isn’t there a chance we could trade Melo to the Lakers and get their lottery pick in return? Wouldn’t Melo and the Lakers both be stupid enough to do agree to that? (Or would the problem be that we’re too stupid to want to do that?)

    58. The Kings problem isn’t that Cousins has a good low post game. Cousins problem is he misses too many jump shots and turns it over too much. The Kings larger problem is their bench is fucking garbage. Okafor’s college eFG was .10 higher than Boogie’s. If he can learn to shoot FTs better, and carry over his post efficiency he will crush Cousins on offense. Its fair to worry how effective his post moves will work on NBA guys, and its fair to worry about his defense, but Boogie and the Kings don’t teach us much about his possible impact

    59. who are you to tell me what to write or not write?

      Save the personal attacks, please, you’re not intimidating anyone. Crying like a girl and cursing like a truck driver when reading the slightest criticism of Melo is not going to validate any of your silly points. Get a grip. But if you can’t, just ignore me. Easy.

      Yeah who’s making personal attacks there?

      I’m not trying to intimidate anybody, but I just want you to know that I give zero fucks about any of your opinions or posts.

    60. You realize you’re on knicks forum, right?

      He could have done much better.

      like what? where could you trade harden that he was going to also sign?

      chris paul went for Minnesota’s unprotected 2012 first-round pick, Eric Gordon, Chris Kaman and Al-Farouq Aminu… and i’m sorry you can’t expect the harden trade to have that kind of haul.. so okc settled for something less….

    61. I’m sorry but I can’t even lurk in peace anymore — can you all just shut up (please) and get back to providing me with Knicks insight I can’t get anywhere else? I think that’s why we’re all actually here.

      Buncha keyboard warriors for real.

    62. “Rim protectors are becoming a must have accessory”

      Unlike the old NBA, where good teams never saw the value of having a really tall guy who could challenge shots. Its a whole new game!

    63. Hubert, I just did a tongue-in-cheek joke… But if you are curious, go read his “Life, Liberty, and pursuit of crappiness”. Real insight. Yeah.

    64. @lavor – while it’s certainly possible for defense to improve over the course of a player’s career… it tends not to for centers at least… blocked shots is something that stays relatively flat… even as a freshman in college… it’s largely one of those skills you either have or you don’t…

    65. Hey. This site is great because of well thought debate and some harsh witticism. You don’t like each other, we get it. Now let’s go back to evaluate some Bargs highlight, won’t we?

    66. like what? where could you trade harden that he was going to also sign?

      My failed attempt at humor was to highlight the irony of telling Knicks fans you can’t get good value trading a player when you have no leverage.

      But let’s be real, Presti was forced into the trade, but he also whiffed. I mean, he didn’t just give up Harden… he gave up Harden AND Cole. (I’m surprised we don’t call it the Aldrich trade.)

    67. while it’s certainly possible for defense to improve over the course of a player’s career… it tends not to for centers at least… blocked shots is something that stays relatively flat… even as a freshman in college… it’s largely one of those skills you either have or you don’t…

      This is definitely true and it could completely be my bias for a center with his overall offensive package because I think he has special talent in playing out of the post both in terms of scoring and passing which is rare. I guess I’m willing to roll the dice on Okafor’s defensive growth more than I am on Towns’ offensive maturation if that makes sense. In terms of fit next to Melo, Towns is definitely better, but I view Okafor as more of a franchise player and considering where we are that’s more important to me

      Like I said though if we draft either one I’ll be very happy, because I think both will be very good NBA players.

    68. Melo has lost all his luster. At this point, just getting rid of his bloated salary while getting a single first round pick would be great for the Knicks.

      A lot of teams wanted to offer him a max contract less than 9 months ago, I don’t think he’s lost so much luster that he’s entered the JR Smith territory you put him in. The problem with trading him is you need a partner that a) has valuable assets to offer a rebuilding team, b) has the cap room to absorb Melo without giving us crap we don’t want, and c) Melo would go to. There’s very little overlap in that ven diagram. I think it’s pretty much the Lakers and no one else.

      BUT!! Isn’t that enough? For once, we could be dealing with two parties dumber than us (Melo & the Buss children). Am I crazy to think they would trade a top 5 pick to us and maybe even more (they have Houston’s first this year…and Randle)? What the hell to the Lakers want to do with rebuilding through the draft? They’ve already traded away two of their next three picks so it isn’t like they’re not trying to turn this around quick.

    69. Didn’t Tom Hanks once get really emotionally attached to a ball? See, he and Carmelo have more in common than you think.

    70. The irony is that Captain Luke is, by his own definition, the “Melo” of KB posters.

    71. This is definitely true and it could completely be my bias for a center with his overall offensive package because I think he has special talent in playing out of the post both in terms of scoring and passing which is rare. I guess I’m willing to roll the dice on Okafor’s defensive growth more than I am on Towns’ offensive maturation if that makes sense. In terms of fit next to Melo, Towns is definitely better, but I view Okafor as more of a franchise player and considering where we are that’s more important to me

      Like I said though if we draft either one I’ll be very happy, because I think both will be very good NBA players.

      I think either of those guys can become franchise players, so I’m cool with either one. I almost want the #2 pick just so that we don’t have to pick which one. :)

    72. I think either of those guys can become franchise players, so I’m cool with either one. I almost want the #2 pick just so that we don’t have to pick which one. :)

      I feel exactly the same

    73. I did not know this:

      The Lakers pick is top 5 protected (they are currently 4th). If it lands outside the top 6, it goes to Philadelphia.

    74. The Lakers pick is top 5 protected (they are currently 4th). If it lands outside the top 6, it goes to Philadelphia.

      Yeah, it’s why it is idiotic that the Lakers are still obviously trying to win games. Just start cutting veterans, Lakers! Winning absolutely fucks you, why are you still trying to win!? Luckily, the team is bad enough that they’re still mostly losing, but damn, they keep playing close games because they’re still trying to win like morons.

      So, with that in mind, yes, they likely are dumb enough to trade their pick for Melo. ;)

    75. Winning absolutely fucks you, why are you still trying to win!?

      Who do they think they are, the Jets

    76. I feel exactly the same

      But it makes getting one of those first two picks an even bigger deal. Because I like Russell and I kind of like a bunch of other guys, but Okafor and Towns I would be thrilled with.

    77. Mainly, Houston and Chicago had interest in Melo, but no evidence that he was getting max offers. Regardless, something we all probably agree on, is that Phil overpaid – by a lot. And that damn NTC.

      Whatever Melo’s value was then, it’s lower now. The knicks had an historically bad season while he was active, and now he’s damaged . . . and a year older.
      Still, if available, I think he’ll draw attention from other teams, but making the deal work will be tricky for the reasons stated above.

    78. Because of his athleticism and defense, I’d rather have Townes than Okafor, especially if Melo stays with the knicks.
      Okafor’s a great player, but he’s accustomed to being the “go to” guy. Townes would be a better clean-up guy around the rim. And if he gets a little stronger and develops his offense, he’ll be a beast.
      But, any of the top four draft prospects will help a lot. Finishing first or second at the bottom is critical.

    79. “Mainly, Houston and Chicago had interest in Melo, but no evidence that he was getting max offers.”

      Wh-h-h-what?

      Do you think either of these teams’ front offices would even waste their time bringing Melo in for a tour if they weren’t going to offer him the max they could? Houston even alienated one of its players by having a huge display put up with Melo with uniform #7 . Their max was not competitive with ours, and no team thought they could have Melo at a discount of what THEY could pay, much less what the Knicks could pay. Houston was also willing to give Bosh the max, but only after Melo spurned them.

      Man, hoolahoop, your hatred for Melo runs so deep that you will actually say anything to devalue him. Use some common sense, please.

    80. Houston offered Bosh a contract on 7th July.

      Knicks signed Melo on 13th July.

      Melo didn’t spurned them. They just went to a more realistic target since Melo was getting a huge contract from the Knicks.

    81. I’m at the DLeague game now and a pleasant surprise is that Thanasis looks 4x more comfortable now than he did when I was last here a month ago. His handle seems to be noticeably better, he’s gambling less on D, and seems to be less lost in the offensive sets.

    82. I asked yesterday if anyone had an opinion on how Frank Kaminsky will turn out as a pro…any chance he’s the next Dirk?

    83. Also, Shump has quietly regressed to the shitty numbers he was putting up pre-trade…

    84. Dudes. Thanasis is for reals. Some ridiculous highlight blocks tonight, finishing in traffic too.

    85. I asked yesterday if anyone had an opinion on how Frank Kaminsky will turn out as a pro…any chance he’s the next Dirk?

      No, there’s no chance. But, you know, if there’d been a Dirk before Dirk I’d have told you there was no chance that Dirk would be the next Dirk either, if you Dirk what I mean. I really have no idea how good Kaminsky will be, but only that it will pretty much turn on whether he can shoot 37% of better from three. Because he’s not likely getting to line 7/36 like Dirk, he’s not going to have the only dominating step back one legged 17 footer in league history like Dirk, and he’s probably going to be some kind of crappy Dirk/Bargs type defender. He’ll also be lumbering-David-Lee-nifty offensively, but that’s kind of a small thing. I think his upside is a Nick Collison who can shoot 3s, which would not be a bad thing.

      It’s harder to judge four year college players now because the competition is worse with so much talent leaving early. Dred says he would send his kid to China, but I think Kaminsky realizes that it’s hard to buy in four decades what you get for just an instant if you are good enough to star in college:

      “I am at the pinnacle of my basketball playing career, at least in my eyes. I know the NBA has their crazy fans and all, but if you look at all of their games, there are games when teams like the Bobcats get hardly any fans, and it looks flat out boring. At the Kohl Center, we play in front of nearly 17,000 fans every single time we step onto the court. When we travel, we play in front of sellout crowds who absolutely hate us. Not because of who is on the team, but because of where we go to school. Who could leave that?”

    86. Since Feb 1 — 14 games — Shumpert has shot 35% from the field and 32% from 3. But some people still think was some terrific asset.

    87. Shump was obviously a good asset. He was an asset that Jackson felt was best used to get rid of JR. If he wasn’t a good asset, he wouldn’t have been able to be used to get rid of JR. So clearly he was a good asset. The debate was over what was the best return on him – was he best used to free up $2 million in cap space or was he best used to get something else? I think the former was certainly defensible (because they weren’t going to re-sign him), which is why I gave Jackson a C on the deal (it wasn’t a great return, but eh, it was fair enough) but clearly he was an asset.

    88. @Hubert, if you trade Melo, bad contracts don’t matter. Bring em on. All we should be caring about at that point is young players/picks. We have no need for free agents until those young guys develop — ie 2-3 years — so bad contracts don’t matter.

    89. Johnno: it’s like deja vu all over again.Wasn’t there much optomism after Shump was @50% from three for a week or so at the beginning of the season before he regtessed?
      Frank- does Thanasis look to be a wing or a 3/4?

    90. so..should Phil REALLY trade Melo. I get the draft picks..but can we get someone to score 20 points a game as efficiently as Melo does in return. I’m not insinuating that Melo is efficient, but he always has a fairly high PER and puts up good numbers. Can we get a player to get close to that and a pick? Like a Derozan or Klay Thompson or Thaddeus Young? Better yet- would Cleveland possibly be interested in a LBJ-Melo forward tandem?

    91. Wh-h-h-what?

      Do you think either of these teams’ front offices would even waste their time bringing Melo in for a tour if they weren’t going to offer him the max they could? Houston even alienated one of its players by having a huge display put up with Melo with uniform #7 . Their max was not competitive with ours, and no team thought they could have Melo at a discount of what THEY could pay, much less what the Knicks could pay. Houston was also willing to give Bosh the max, but only after Melo spurned them.

      Z-, man, that’s what you really think?
      That just because a front office talks to him, the offer is automatically max. Really, you’re not that naive, are you?
      Alienate a player? Funny. you couldn’t bring yourself to say his name. Don’t you mean the guy that Melo said had a “ridiculous contract”. Didn’t they get rid of that guy?

      When Bosch became available, Houston jumped on him. They preferred him to Melo.
      Honestly, I think the interest in Melo was much milder than anyone expected.

    92. Hubert, if you trade Melo, bad contracts don’t matter. Bring em on. All we should be caring about at that point is young players/picks. We have no need for free agents until those young guys develop — ie 2-3 years — so bad contracts don’t matter.

      I hear that, but you still don’t want them if you can avoid it. I mean, I’d rather trade Melo to a team like the Lakers that could just absorb him rather than a team that sends us two guys in bad deals for the next 3 years. Because ideally, if we have young players and picks, we’d also have the flexibility to absorb some bad contracts in separate deals for assets.

      I don’t know if it’s realistic, but this is my new dream. I doubt it would happen before the draft. Phil will probably hang on to the dream of building around Melo. But the best case scenario, IMHO, is the Lakers get a top 5 pick and use it. Then Phil strikes out on Gasol and Aldridge and everyone else in free agency. Then instead of doing something dumb like signing the next Amar’e, Melo & the Knicks realize it’s time for a divorce and we trade him to the Lakers for whoever they drafted and whatver good assets they have.

      So here’s hoping the Knicks and Lakers draft 1-2.

    93. But the best case scenario, IMHO, is the Lakers get a top 5 pick and use it. Then Phil strikes out on Gasol and Aldridge and everyone else in free agency. Then instead of doing something dumb like signing the next Amar’e, Melo & the Knicks realize it’s time for a divorce and we trade him to the Lakers for whoever they drafted and whatver good assets they have.

      Giving Phil the benefit of the doubt, I’d be surprised if he didn’t have a sit down with Melo, sometime before next season, to graciously explain that he may be better off elsewhere, rather than in the midst of the knick’s long term rebuild.
      It’s possible, if they’re able to find a win-win situation In LA or elsewhere, Melo has played his last game as a NY Knick.

      And that would even make me a little sad (seriously), but happy too, because it’s better for the knicks, long term. He’s a warrior that goes to battle each and every night, but he’s not going to bring the knicks deep into the playoffs playing his current style, especially with a bunch or young guys on a team that’s looking for an identity.

    94. Stop the presses, Hoolahoop gave Melo a compliment. Captain Luke is going to kick you out of the clique now.

    95. Right now thanasis is a wing that can’t really shoot, but he does tons of other things well. He can prob guard most 1s but would be most comfortable guarding 2s and 3s. He’s too light to guard 4s.

      He’s sort of like KJ McDaniels honestly. If he can just shoot 34-35% from 3 and be a garbage man otherwise, he’d be a serious asset to this team. But his jumper still looks funky. Definitely shoots the ball on the way down. He needs a serious shooting coach and 500 shots a day in the offseason.

    96. Actually looking at Thanasis and McDaniels in terms of stats and physical measurables, they really are quite similar. Freak athletes, can do a bunch of stuff pretty well, great effort players, but just. Can’t. Shoot.

    97. Obviously, its just the d-league. But Thanasis has shown real improvement-I think he’s got a shot

    98. Shump had value. The debate is whether dumping JR for 2015 cap space was a good use of his value, or if picking up a future asset was more worthwhile. I am of the belief that waiving JR and eating his contract while picking up a pick or young player would have been a better move. But this summer will decide if Phil and his 11 rings was right, or if me and my 0 rings was right.

    99. How many teams would trade a promising young player for a league average-ish wing who is only good at things the league still doesn’t value appropriately? My guess is none. Half a season of shump may have been able to net us a decent 2nd round pick,but that’s probably it.

    100. I think it’s been established that teams offered assets for Shumpert over the past 11 months. He had value. (Hell, KB posters, who know his warts and all, were talking about giving him $12,000,000+ three weeks into this season.)

    101. In other news, looks like Spike Lee is sitting courtside at Oracle, wearing a Knicks Jersey. (Yup, it’s gotten that bad in NY)

    102. How many times was Phil Jackson in charge when the Knicks were offered real assets for Shump? I don’t remember anything specific after the near trade at last year’s deadline with the Clippers.

    103. if we land a top 3 pick… this will quickly not be melo’s team…

      One can only hope. And I mean that not as a shot at Melo at all. Just that I think Towns or Okafor can be franchise guys right away. And maybe Russell, too. And that would be sure swell to have a guy like that on the team.

    104. For all you Thanasis fans, here’s a little cold water. Early looked incredible in D league when he went down for a couple of games. I’m not saying Thanasis doesn’t have some upside and can’t become a rotation player, but no way he’s ready to be very productive against NBA competition right now.

    105. Thanasis may not be ready but not everybody is the same. Galloway did well in the D-League, came up to the NBA and has proven at the very least he’s an NBA caliber player.

    106. Cle might have looked good in the d league, but he shot like shit. He had a 50ish TS%. But yes, its more than fair to be pessimistic about Thanasis

    107. The point should be made that in judging the Chandler trade, Cle and Thanasis are the key components. If they turn out to be solid rotation players in 2-3 years, then the trade takes on a whole new light, similar to the Pau Gasol trade, which was widely panned at the time but in hindsight looks pretty good.

    108. If your shooting and handle are below average for a guard and you’re only 6′ 6″, it’s extremely difficult to have your elite athleticism carry you in the NBA. Maybe he becomes Trevor Ariza, but I doubt it.

    109. Also, Early didn’t look that good in the D-League, you have to calibrate. Quincy Miller, a perfect fringe NBA guy, averaged 31 & 1o per 36, TS 64% this year.

    110. Yeah, I don’t expect much form Early or Thanasis, but you never know. Early was a 4-year college player who is kinda a tweener (PF skills, SF body). Thanasis is a big guard without big guard skills (ball handling, shooting. But they both seem to have great attitudes, so maybe with hard work they can develop. Early was a pretty good shooter in college, but his shot looks pretty flat to me, a bad sign vs bigger NBA players.

    111. 4 thoughts on Shumpert–
      1- none of us knows what teams were willing to give up for him. We only know rumors.
      2 – the best offer that we heard was a late first round pick when he had a year and a half left on his rookie deal. He was worth a whole lot less with 3 months left on his deal.
      3 – by almost any statistical measure he is a well below average player.
      4 – the clamor to re-sign him was during his 9 game run when he once again duped us into thinking he doesn’t stink. We were wrong

    Comments are closed.