Knicks Morning News (2015.01.09)

  • [New York Post] Fisher explains why Jackson triangle hasn’t stuck with players (Fri, 09 Jan 2015 03:12:15 -0500)

    Knicks coach Derek Fisher said he has extra challenges in getting his current young players to believe the triangle offense wins titles because team president Phil Jackson has been out…

  • [New York Post] Why it’s worthless and foolish to boo these Knicks (Fri, 09 Jan 2015 00:49:55 -0500)

    There should be no chants of "Fire Fisher” anymore. In fact, no one should even bother booing the Knicks for the rest of this season. Heck, even the group of…

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks fans wear paper bags as Rockets roll at Garden (Fri, 09 Jan 2015 06:49:26 GMT)

    The Knicks celebrity row was replaced on Thursday by five 18-year-old disgruntled Knicks fans who wore paper bags on their heads.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks Insider: Galloway on verge of Langsanity? (Fri, 09 Jan 2015 06:38:52 GMT)

    Langston Galloway announced his presence to the Garden crowd with a put-back dunk late in the first quarter in his home debut.

  • [New York Daily News] Isola: Phil and top Knicks exec quite revealing on Twitter (Fri, 09 Jan 2015 05:26:29 GMT)

    Following the Knicks on Twitter just won’t be the same anymore with J.R. Smith exiled to Cleveland.

  • [New York Daily News] Ex-Knick John Starks on Phil Jackson: ‘Wait and see’ (Fri, 09 Jan 2015 05:01:43 GMT)

    Not everyone is putting their full trust in Phil.

  • [New York Daily News] Raissman: Timing of new Knicks app couldn’t be worse (Fri, 09 Jan 2015 04:59:11 GMT)

    James (Guitar Jimmy) Dolan and his media savants are looking to give the league’s worst team even more exposure.

  • [New York Times] Aldridge Has 24 and 12, Trail Blazers Beat Heat 99-83 (Fri, 09 Jan 2015 07:36:14 GMT)

    It was a perfect setup for Portland. The Trail Blazers needed a big third quarter to get back into the game, and Miami has been all-too-generous of late in that period.

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro basketball: Liberty Rehire Bill Laimbeer as Coach (Fri, 09 Jan 2015 05:04:24 GMT)

    The Liberty rehired Bill Laimbeer as coach three months after they chose to not exercise the option year on his contract.

  • [New York Times] Harden Has 25 Points, Rockets Hand Knicks 14th Straight Loss (Fri, 09 Jan 2015 05:00:15 GMT)

    Just to the left of their bench was a row of fans wearing paper bags over their heads. On the court in front of them, a New York Knicks team filled with unrecognizable faces.

  • [New York Times] TV Sports: Even ESPN Is Trying to Hide From the Knicks (Fri, 09 Jan 2015 04:15:25 GMT)

    Searching for more compelling matchups, ESPN erased three of the four Knicks games left on its schedule.

  • [New York Times] Rockets 120, Knicks 96: Little Excitement at Garden, on the Court or Off (Fri, 09 Jan 2015 04:06:02 GMT)

    Madison Square Garden provided a warm and quiet refuge from the cold weather, but some fans took to wearing bags over their heads during the Knicks’ loss to the Rockets.

  • [New York Times] Henderson Scores 31 Points, Hornets Beat Raptors 103-95 (Fri, 09 Jan 2015 03:30:41 GMT)

    Gerald Henderson scored a season-high 31 points, Kemba Walker added 29 and the Charlotte Hornets beat the Toronto Raptors 103-95 on Thursday night.

  • [New York Times] Nets’ Deron Williams Out Indefinitely After Test Shows Rib Fracture (Fri, 09 Jan 2015 01:53:45 GMT)

    The Nets said that an M.R.I. on Williams, who was injured Sunday, showed a rib fracture.

  • Liked it? Take a second to support Mike Kurylo on Patreon!

    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    121 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2015.01.09)”

    1. Knicks coach Derek Fisher said he has extra challenges in getting his current young players to believe the triangle offense wins titles because team president Phil Jackson has been out of coaching for a while.

      Fisher said when Jackson joined the Lakers, he had the “credibility’’ of having dominated the basketball world so recently in Chicago. That’s not the case now.

      On Wednesday, the recently traded J.R. Smith told The Post’s Kevin Kernan the triangle makes you “have to think too much’’ and said “everybody was walking on eggshells’’ trying to figure out Jackson’s attempt at a culture change.

      […]

      “When I played, the credibility Phil and his staff had came when he walked in the door,’’ Fisher said before the 120-96 loss to the Rockets. “We were all intrigued in wanting to figure it out, knowing they won championships doing this. We wanted to figure out how to win championships within this format.’’

      Well, dear Derek. Guess what? The Jim Cleamons experiment was already terminated by then (28-70; .286 winning percentage in 1996-97 and a small portion of 1997-98). So it was not like this “Triangle” was fool-proof. You bought in because Phil was charismatic as hell, that’s why. And your players aren’t buying in for a lot of reasons, but not because of a lack of Triangularity in the last 4 (sic! last championship won by Phil was in 2010, did you already forget? you were there, damn it) years in the league. I mean, even Thanasis had to have heard of Phil Jackson before coming here, don’t you think? If I am 31 and know who Red Holzman was, or better yet, Red Auerbach, don’t you think your players know about Phil?

      I get the coach frustration, but this interview and this fugly speech have me scratching my head at Fisher’s potential. Don’t fire the guy, ok, definitely too soon, but damn…

    2. If all he gets across to players is to defend, the Knicks would have had many more wins.
      It is so irritating to watch this team. They don’t defend the perimeter at all. The pick and roll picks them apart and they step out of the way when opposing players drive the lane. It is the absolute worst basketball I’ve ever seen. Harden was toying with them all night.

    3. Has he done a terrible job? Yes. However, the way this is all set up he will have a completely different roster next season, so we have to give him a season with the “real” team first before truly judging him. But yeah, so far he’s been godawful.

    4. I agree with you, Brian. Let’s wait another year.

      But are you telling me if we took 38 random KB commenters and we put them in charge of the team, one for each game, our record would be worse than 5-33?

      So, ok, let’s give him a pass for this season (5 million $ per year! Talk about a free pass; still, not my money), but it’s incredible that something resembled coaching philosophy hasn’t vaguely traspired yet.

    5. something resembled coaching philosophy

      Something resembling, not resembled, obviously. And the Triangle doesn’t count, since right now it looks like an audition for 2nd graders.

    6. So we should be down on the triangle because JR Smith can’t take the time to properly learn it?

      Problem isn’t the triangle, it’s the players who want to shoot step back jumpers with 20 sec on the shot clock

    7. The thing is, there ARE coaches who reach some of these seemingly unreachable guys. Don Nelson got Anthony Randolph to play sort of smartly. George Karl eventually wore JR Smith down to the point where he was actually efficient!

      So yes, JR is obviously by FAR the main person to blame for his career being in the shitter, but I don’t think coaches can just throw their hands up and say “What can I do? It’s JR Smith!”

    8. Langston Galloway scored 19 points last night. Do you know how many times Shumpert has scored 19 or more points in his entire 4 year career in the NBA? 11 times. That’s amazing. A shooting guard who started for 3 full seasons (taking into account the number of games that he missed due to injury) and played close to 30 minutes a game barely ever scoring 19 points. This is a guy who I think it was Zach Lowe said the other day can “stretch the floor.” By doing what exactly? By the way, we’ve been looking at what the Nuggets got for Mozgov from the perspective of what the Knicks could/should have gotten for Chandler. What about from the Cleveland perspective? They gave up 2 first round picks for Timofey Mozgov. And we think that the Knicks get taken to the cleaners in trades.

    9. Imagine what Cavs would have given for Chandler…#imjustsayin

      Yea…if only Varajeo had gotten hurt in the off season lol

    10. @10 yea. I like what i saw from Gallo part 2. Im just hoping he has the defensive prowess to defend bigger shooting guards in this league.

    11. Just one pick, probably. Tyson is on an expiring contract and we would have been in a bad negotiation position. So there’s that. One heavy protected first round pick isn’t much better than Early, in my opinion (Plus, we would almost certainly have had to take Waiters).

    12. I also liked that Fisher benched the starters and said, “They didn’t deserve to be out there.”

    13. I can’t believe that Mozgov brought back 2 first round picks and Shumpert brought back a bag of Cheetos.

      I hope there’s somebody on this team that is worth a first round pick or two. Some basketball people still think Hardaway can be a useful player right?

    14. Has he done a terrible job? Yes. However, the way this is all set up he will have a completely different roster next season, so we have to give him a season with the “real” team first before truly judging him. But yeah, so far he’s been godawful.

      It seems like the logic behind this would be that Fisher can only coach good players or something like that? I don’t know. That seems extremely speculative to me. I look at a guy like Frank Vogel in Indiana who was maxing out his talent when his team was pretty good, and now with terrible talent…he’s still maxing out that talent. Indiana’s leading scorer is CJ Miles at 12 points per game and they have 14 wins to our 5. This roster is god awful, particularly now that we have gone full tank, but 5 wins is still beyond terrible.

      It reminds me a bit of the beginning of last season where people were against firing Woodson and I would ask, “Okay if you’re against firing him, what is it that he does well as a coach? What are we losing by getting rid of him?” Nobody ever had a good answer for that, it was mostly just keeping him out of a sense of obligation – “Oh, you can’t fire a guy who just won 56 games”. That’s where things seem headed to me with Fisher. People will say “Oh, you can’t fire a guy who only got a single season with abysmal talent”. But ignoring the question of whether it’s “fair” or not, I’m just asking whether it would be the right move. Fisher hasn’t shown even a single isolated sign of being anything but a bottom tier head coach, has he? I ask again, what does he do well? What are his strengths? If we reach the end of the season and the answer is still “…” I would be in favor of cutting our losses and moving on.

    15. @18 again… it was a terrible move by Cleveland. If the Knicks did that trade they would be killed. So its weird that we are making comparisions based on that shit trade.

    16. I agree that Fisher has been awful. He’s learning on the job. Boy would I love to have a paid internship like that!

      But if I was the coach I would’ve gone ballistic on a nightly basis and would’ve been taken off the court in a straight-jacket.

    17. the Prigs, Calderon, Aldrich, TH2, Smith lineup that started last night was simply horrendous… it was the Gallo(2), Larkin, Wear, Aldrich, Early lineup that made some things happen or so it appeared

      I’d play that 5 with Acy and even TH2 and Jason Smith…

      If you’re not going to play TH2 with the guys that run, jump and gun, then he is completely useless…
      Jason Smith looks better with the latter lineup as well…

    18. Jason Smith looks better with the latter lineup as well…

      Jason Smith fucking sucks in any lineup as well. I fixed that for you. :)

    19. The Fisher issue is part of a larger one, that being, Phil is selecting personnel based on the Triangle. That’s why we have Calderon, Jason Smith, and Fisher. And why Monroe will be on this team next season. That is a huge mistake imo to build a team in that manner.

    20. Our starting lineup should be Cole, Acy, THJ, Galloway and maybe Jose. Try as hard as possible to get points for Jose and Timmy. Jason Smith should be cut, and then released from the Knicks.

    21. Wasnt Doc Rivers a pretty bad coach for years until he got talent?

      I’m not in any way disputing that for the most part a team is as good as its talent. Coaching is always going to be a secondary factor. I don’t think that if we somehow get 60 win talent on the team next year (we can dream, right?) that we’ll win 22 games because we have Fisher. Or if (god forbid) we’re as untalented as this again next year, I don’t think Red Holzman himself would magically turn us into a championship contender.

      But the right coach does move the needle, and coaching is one area where it’s potentially easy for the Knicks to bring their financial resources to bear. When we sign a player to an absurdly gratuitous contract and they turn out to be a bust, you can’t just cut them and move on – there’s cap ramifications etc. But with a coach, you can. If by the end of the year it looks unlikely that Fisher is going to develop into one of those guys who moves the needle in a positive way (and I defy anybody to give me a reason that they think that’s about to happen) then the only cost to ditching a dud and trying to find a stud is a few ducats from Dolan’s overinflated pocketbook.

    22. Jason Smith should be cut, and then released from the Knicks

      Do you mean like cut with a knife?

      Cole, Acy, THJ, Galloway and maybe Jose

      Nice. I think timmy would probably defend threes better than twos if he put on some weight

    23. I can’t believe that Mozgov brought back 2 first round picks and Shumpert brought back a bag of Cheetos.

      When I first heard about the Mzsgov trade, it felt like a punch in the gut.
      This isn’t a reflection of the players’ worth, as it’s a reflection of Knicks management’s inability to extract value for their players.
      Same goes for the Melo contract. In this cap restricted era, it’a all about getting value. That deal was horrendous.
      Don’t complain that the players suck. You think J. Smith and JR Smith are having a bad season. Tell me what type of season PJ is having.

    24. PJ is having a mediocre season:

      Bad-extending Carmelo instead of letting him walk.

      Everything else is tough to grade without actually knowing what Phil was thinking about this team. If he really thought this sorry squad was a playoff team, that’s bad. If he actually thought Jason Smith would be good, that’s awful. If he thought Jason Smith was a guy who might score some points in the triangle and help us dump someone like JR, that’s still bad, but not as bad.

      Good-not taking on further financial commitment, creating more cap space.

      For those of you saying “Mozgov got two firsts-what could Chandler have brought from the Cavs”, the answer is probably those two firsts. Because the Cavs don’t have shit else. And those two firsts aren’t that good because they’re heavily protected. And Tyson would have had to stay healthy. And we’d have to have known Varejao would get hurt. Etc. Phil absolutely could have gotten more for Tyson. But that would have entailed taking on extra risk.

    25. Wasnt Doc Rivers a pretty bad coach for years until he got talent?

      Doc Rivers first season was with Orlando and was 41-41. The following three years Orlando made the playoffs.
      In sixteen seasons, his only two losing seasons were followed by winning the NBA Championship in Boston.

    26. I’m not a Jason Smith fan, but making him the whipping boy for this team is misguided. He’s a $3 million/year player whose been given a bigger role than he should have. That’s on management.

    27. “Mozgov got two firsts-what could Chandler have brought from the Cavs”, the answer is probably those two firsts.”
      Possibly, but probably not because I don’t think that there is any way that the Cavs could have fit Chandler under the cap (unless the Knicks took back $12+ million in undesirable contracts). One reason that Mozgov had relatively high value (but not 2 first rounder high value) is that he’s under contract for a year and a half at a pretty cheap contract for an ok starting center.

    28. Dalembert would have been a good fit for Cleveland and much cheaper for them (2nd rounder).
      He was worth something.

    29. One reason that Mozgov had relatively high value (but not 2 first rounder high value) is that he’s under contract for a year and a half at a pretty cheap contract for an ok starting center.

      Absolutely. And one of the reasons Tyson was not super valuable is that he was owed a lot of money and there’s no guarantee he’d be around the next year. Tyson is obviously a much more valuable player than Mozgov in a vacuum, but that’s not how the NBA works. Melo, when healthy, is a much more valuable player than Mozgov, but I’m not sure we could get two first rounders for Melo because of the money he’s owed.

    30. @36 +1

      Trade value is the difference between a players fair contract as a free agent and what he actually gets paid. Mozgov is underpaid and plays a position that’s hard to fill, so the Nuggets can get good stuff back for him. JR and Shump were at the very least fairly paid and probably about to be overpaid next year. So we got very little for them.

    31. The Fisher issue is part of a larger one, that being, Phil is selecting personnel based on the Triangle. That’s why we have Calderon, Jason Smith, and Fisher. And why Monroe will be on this team next season. That is a huge mistake imo to build a team in that manner.

      I agree about being rigid also. One of my main concerns is how antiquated the triangle offense seems to be in today’s NBA. Building a roster around an offensive concept is flawed, but furthermore, one that emphasizes the least-efficient/worst-yield shot on the court….that’s very worrisome, at least for me.

      @19:

      If we reach the end of the season and the answer is still “…” I would be in favor of cutting our losses and moving on.

      If we ever cut Fisher, who would be the best person to step in, that PJax will accept? I don’t see PJax deviating from the triangle offense any time soon….

    32. Brendan Wright is available.

      Would a Calderon and THJR for Wright trade make sense?
      I know hes an UFA next year but Calderon can help the young pgs learn in Boston. Ah one can hope?

    33. So, PJ, a first time GM, is building a team around what a lot of people believe to be an antiquated style, the triangle, with a first time coach, and is turning over almost the entire roster to fit this system.

      If this sounds difficult and complicated, imagine initiating Plan B.

    34. Plan B: Brian Shaw
      Plan C: Tyronn Lue
      Plan D: Vladamir Radmonovic, space cadet
      Plan E: [insert Laker here]

    35. Calderon has fallen completely off a cliff. His eFG% is down almost 100 points, rendering him useless as a basketball player. His contract– not a small one– runs two more years after this one, at $7.4M and $7.7M. If you’re counting, that’s about $30.1M tied up in Carmelo Anthony and Jose Calderon next year, and $32.2M tied up in those two in 2016-2017. You have to be pretty oblivious to think that is a winning foundation going forward. That is a horrific use of $30+ million of cap space.

      We are so screwed.

    36. Someone on P&T just posted this really nice chart of available players this summer. Ephus, in lieu of of replicating this information, would it be better to focus on analyzing the Portland and GSW’s cap situation since we’re all very interested in Draymond and Matthews? Example, how much luxury tax would GSW have to pay to match a max Green offer? What draft pick(s) does GSW have as sweeteners to dump contracts? Would Portland reasonably be able to re-sign both Matthews and Lopez while paying Aldridge the max? What combined amount would put them in the luxury tax? And so on.

    37. That is a horrific use of $30+ million of cap space.

      We are so screwed.

      At most Calderon is here until next year. No way he is here all 3 years

    38. @44 JK47 +1 Calderon we might be able to unload to a team on a long rebuild if we include all or some combination of Timmy, Larkin, Early, Greek, 2019 2nd round pick. Regarding Melo, those 33,000 minutes on him is more worrisome than his age. The only player around his age who’s got more minutes is LBJ and look what’s happening to the Lebronatron. But LBJ could drop from .240 to 180 WS/48 and still be a very effective player but Melo going from .160 to .110 just won’t fly. I would be interested in any research which showed player performance after hitting 33,000 minutes. I suspect for every Pierce you’ll find 10 Elton Brands. This won’t happen but Phil should move Melo at the trade deadline (not likely because of salary matching issues) or off-season to a win-now team. Towns or Okafor will take a couple of years at which Melo would surely be in decline. Draft one of those 2 players, offer max to 24 yo Draymond and rebuild in that way. Maybe even keep Calderon during that type of rebuild.

    39. And to get rid of $7M+ of dead salary cap space, how do you do that? You give away assets. It’s the Knick Way.

    40. @19:
      If we ever cut Fisher, who would be the best person to step in, that PJax will accept? I don’t see PJax deviating from the triangle offense any time soon….

      It’s a really hard question because I have a feeling we would be looking to pick from Jax’s withered coaching tree. With Budenholzer quickly showing himself to be one of the top, top coaches in the league (I’m in love with what he has done with the Hawks this year), I think the smart move would be to try to snag one of Pop’s assistants, or a stud from college who might be the next Brad Stevens (another coach I really like), Shaka Smart maybe? But as with our player selections I worry dedication to the triangle would really limit us.

    41. Tim Hardaway is a terrible basketball player. I don’t know what we could get for him. If someone out there is dumb enough to give us a first. . .hold on to Jose

    42. Somebody out there is going to take a flyer on Hardaway. I think we’re going to be stuck with Prigs and Calderon. I hope we can get rid of Calderon and there are reports that that’ll be PJ’s next move.

    43. It’s a really hard question because I have a feeling we would be looking to pick from Jax’s withered coaching tree. With Budenholzer quickly showing himself to be one of the top, top coaches in the league (I’m in love with what he has done with the Hawks this year), I think the smart move would be to try to snag one of Pop’s assistants, or a stud from college who might be the next Brad Stevens (another coach I really like), Shaka Smart maybe? But as with our player selections I worry dedication to the triangle would really limit us.

      I’ve been a fan of Smart for awhile and would love to get him to come and coach. There’s a guy in the D-league I like as well but I can’t remember his name.

    44. The more i think about my Calderon and Hardaway + 2nd round pick the more i think it makes sense for Boston. They are in clear asset gathering mode. This trade adds 2 assets for the price of paying a vet PG 7.5 mil for 2 years. They arent winning in two years or trying to sign FA in that time, so that money means nothing to them. They could even trade the contract in his final year.

    45. lol there is no way in the whole wide world that Fish is going to be fired, certainly not for a few years. it’s not even worth talking about it. We’re more likely to hit the trifecta of re-signing Jeremy Lin, trading Melo to Minnesota, and Dolan selling the team.

    46. Someone on P&T just posted this really nice chart of available players this summer. Ephus, in lieu of of replicating this information, would it be better to focus on analyzing the Portland and GSW’s cap situation since we’re all very interested in Draymond and Matthews? Example, how much luxury tax would GSW have to pay to match a max Green offer? What draft pick(s) does GSW have as sweeteners to dump contracts? Would Portland reasonably be able to re-sign both Matthews and Lopez while paying Aldridge the max? What combined amount would put them in the luxury tax? And so on.

      I haven’t looked at this in a while and I am no Ephus and I probably do not have as good of an understanding of the cap but I believe Portland has some major cap holds which I believe will have them at around $77m. Now they can shed some dead weight and revoke the rights to Claver, Freeland, Wright, Thomas, and even Kaman to get to around $52-56M with cap holds plus whatever the empty roster spots cost. Now they could value some of those players which wouldn’t leave that much wiggle room to fit a FA in.

      GSW: I believe all of their picks are tied up or shipped off.

    47. re: Portland and matching Matthews- don’t forget that Lillard is going to be a max player very soon too.

    48. I wonder what about a lateral trade between the knicks and timberwolves.

      Jose Calderon/Hardaway Jr for Kelvin Martin/future 2nd. It kind of makes sense. They make comparable money and the Wolves could use a back up to Rubio. So why not bring in a fellow countryman/mentor who has played with him. This frees more time for Levine.

      The knicks get a role player who they can keep or cut like they would Calderon but gain even more space with Martin’s slightly lower contract and Hardaway jr salary being of the books.

    49. I wonder what about a lateral trade between the knicks and timberwolves.

      Jose Calderon/Hardaway Jr for Kelvin Martin/future 2nd. It kind of makes sense. They make comparable money and the Wolves could use a back up to Rubio. So why not bring in a fellow countryman/mentor who has played with him. This frees more time for Levine.

      Wow, I was literally doing this trade in the trade machine just now!

      Salaries match up well

    50. This is shaping up to be a very interesting summer. While there is no marquee name like LBJ on the boards, there are an awful lot of good players out there. In an alternate universe, we’d be looking at a starting 5 next season of: Beverley (10m), Butler (16m), Draymond (16m), Mirotic (5m), Towns (5m) = 52m. Every player <= 26yo, a top 5 defense, and lots of cap to boot. That might even make KD take notice ::sigh::

    51. So is the Coletrain completely off of the rails or just in serious need of some diesel fuel? Over the last seven games his TS% is .433 with a turnover% of 20.2. His rebound rate is still okay at 16.6% but his block rate has slipped to 3.1 (5.2 previously.) Over that stretch he has faced some very good centers- Gasol, Howard, Jordan, Gortat and Drummond- so it’ll be interesting to see if he bounces back in the next couple of games against Charlotte and Milwaukee.

    52. why would you pay Pat Beverly 10 milli?

      This goes to my belief that you’ve got to look at plus/minus to evaluate players who are at the extremes in defense. Beverley’s been a +5 player (raw net plus/minus) over his career. Check out his rank last season.

      BTW I believe that alternate universe example was attainable. I absolutely believe Chicago would have given us Butler and Mirotic in exchange for Melo/JR/Prigs. Draymond is more of a long shot because I think GSW will do something to either keep him or maybe match a max offer and trade him to a team like 76ers for one of their draft selections to avoid luxury tax.

    53. Jose Calderon is being Jose Calderon. People overestimated him before he got here. His numbers are down because the team loses every game.
      THJ has not been playing well, but he’s another young guy with a lot of upside. Now, he’s being underestimated – because the team loses every game.

      No one is going to look good here until the knicks start winning. LeBron would look bad here….not bad for him like he does in Cleveland….just plain bad.
      It’s very difficult to shine in a losing environment. Who looks good on the knicks this season?

    54. A guy I think should be on the Knicks radar is Amir Johnson- I think Toronto would like to keep him and has the space to do so but he’s a very solid player who you probably wouldn’t have to break the bank to sign. He’s kind of a poor man’s Milsap but a couple of years younger and should be at least 3m a year cheaper.

    55. From ESPN’s website:

      Drawing on advanced statistical modeling techniques (and the analytical wizardry of RPM developer Jeremias Engelmann, formerly of the Phoenix Suns), the metric isolates the unique plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate and opposing player.

      As far as I know they’ve never gone into more detail than this as to the methodology they used to develop this stat, and certainly never have shared the formula.

      Don’t mean to derail the discussion though. I wouldn’t be upset with Beverly at $10mil.

    56. In theory, I love +/-, but it doesn’t seem to be a good indicator because of the way it’s calculated.
      RPM attempts to refine the stat by using an algorithm. But, it could be way off.

      Plus, I’m skeptical of the gathering of some stats that are prone to human error in recording. I bet there’s a fairly large error discrepancy.

    57. Draymond is more of a long shot because I think GSW will do something to either keep him or maybe match a max offer and trade him to a team like 76ers for one of their draft selections to avoid luxury tax.

      not 100% sure about this but I think I remember something about being unable to trade a matched RFA for a year.

      aha here it is from cbafaq:

      If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet. They also can’t trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 91). A restricted free agent’s resulting contract (whether with the new team or the contract is matched by the player’s prior team) cannot be amended in any manner for one year.

    58. not 100% sure about this but I think I remember something about being unable to trade a matched RFA for a year. aha here it is from cbafaq:

      Interesting. And I presume it would be illegal for the teams to have an agreement whereby 76ers bid max, GSW doesn’t match, and then, apart from this, 76ers send whoever they picked this draft in exchange for whatever to make numbers work.

    59. Cole is being overused. I love Cole, but if hes your main offensive weapon you’re fucked. And he’s either not in the best shape, or he’s not capable of playing NBA starter minutes. Some big guys just cat get in full time NBA shape ever- if that’s the case, Cole’s ceiling is good NBA backup. Which is great for the money, but somewhat disappointing. Given our lack of options, might as well keep running him out there and see if he builds up some stamina.

    60. I really like the Brendan Wright pickup for the Suns. They were a little thin on bigs and he should fit into their style seamlessly. The West playoff race looks like it’s going to be so, so interesting.

    61. As for Timmy, he’s doubled his assist rate this year, which is nice to see, but if the 3 ball isn’t falling he’s a waste of space. His upside is shooting dependent. He’s never going to rebound or play defense. Its not the end of the world if we keep him, but I’d move on.

    62. Interesting. And I presume it would be illegal for the teams to have an agreement whereby 76ers bid max, GSW doesn’t match, and then, apart from this, 76ers send whoever they picked this draft in exchange for whatever to make numbers work.

      Thats diabolical lol. Why the hell did the nba salary/contracts get so complicated. The damn commie salary cap made it where you need to be a math/financial wiz to follow movement.

    63. Looks like Jeff Green to Mem

      The Celtics and Grizzlies, sources said, have been exchanging trade proposals on Green for some time, with Memphis believed to be offering the $7.7 million expiring contract of Tayshaun Prince and a future first-round pick to Boston in exchange for him.

    64. I don’t really get Jeff Green. I guess he’s better than Tayshaun Prince, but that’s a low low bar.

    65. Why the hell did the nba salary/contracts get so complicated.

      Yep, I’m wrong more often than not about CBA matters. I’d read the CBA but there’s a reason I didn’t want to be a lawyer, and you need a FAQ for Coon’s CBA FAQ.

    66. I really like the Brendan Wright pickup for the Suns.

      Phoenix gave up a 1st round pick for Wright. That Chandler deal keeps looking worse and worse. Could you imagine Dragic/Bledsoe/Thomas executing high PnRs and Tyson diving? If Phil had waited until Phoenix struck out last summer, this trade probably would have been there. So not only do we not have a first but Calderon’s contract may prevent us from competing for Matthews.

    67. Jeff Green is a less headache-y version of Rudy Gay. Given how much they improved once they shipped Gay out it seems strange they’d trade for a player who’s basically a slightly lower volume version of the same guy. Maybe they think it’ll help keep Gasol around by at least trying to improve the team however incrementally.

    68. Phoenix gave up a 1st round pick for Wright. That Chandler deal keeps looking worse and worse. Could you imagine Dragic/Bledsoe/Thomas executing high PnRs and Tyson diving?this trade probably would have been there.

      Not for sure. Tyson is old and Wright is young. The Suns probably have the youngest core in the league. If i were them id part for a first for a younger version of Tyson and hope he grew into that to mesh with my young core. Not for an older guy on a team not ready to win da chip.

      I know its in style to bash every Knick move, but most of these situations are very different from the Knicks. For instance Cleveland was in legit desparation mode. Remember they have to sell Lebron AND Love on coming back next year, and those two give no fucks about draft picks ask Andrew Wiggins.

    69. I really like the Brendan Wright pickup for the Suns. They were a little thin on bigs and he should fit into their style seamlessly. The West playoff race looks like it’s going to be so, so interesting.

      They were? I thought they were pretty good there but I guess you add him into the Plumlee/len/ Morris bros rotation.

      I would have liked to see Brendan with the Blazers. Move in Wright instead of Thomas robinson

    70. @er You may be right but Wright could walk at end of season. Like Atlanta, nobody wants to play in Phoenix so I think Suns were kinda desperate and would have traded for Tyson figuring he’d be better in his contract year playing for a better coach and organization. Remember they had draft picks galore.

    71. Some big guys just cat get in full time NBA shape ever- if that’s the case, Cole’s ceiling is good NBA backup.

      Maybe Eddy Curry was his hero.

    72. I actually like that trade for Memphis. I think “a less headache-y version of Rudy Gay” (great description nicos) is basically a good player(note that Gay has actually been halfway decent for the Kings). The problem with Gay on that team as I see it was that Gasol and Conley are both sort of passive guys, and Gay was brash and a “star”. As long as he was there Conley and Gasol were willing to defer too much to him on offense, and so he just ended up shooting way, way too much while the other guys didn’t shoot enough. Trading him got their offense to a much healthier balance.

      I think Green knows his lane (he was actually pretty low usage when he was with OKC and only became a sort of high usage player when on these awful Celtics teams) and as long as he stays in it he gives them a lot of flexibility they didn’t have before. Green isn’t great, but they really didn’t have that big wing who could be a 3/4, let them go small sometimes, plus you don’t have to be great to be an upgrade over Tayshaun Prince’s corpse. It’s not a massive upgrade, but when you’re a legit title contender (particularly in a year when things look wide freaking open) making small upgrades can pay big dividends.

    73. They were? I thought they were pretty good there but I guess you add him into the Plumlee/len/ Morris bros rotation.

      I think so. The Morris twins are really 3/4 as opposed to pure bigs. That works well for their style, but in the wrong matchups those guys are a little small. I like both Len and Plumlee, but Len is really getting his first experience as a rotation big and he has looked a little foul prone. It wasn’t a gaping hole, but those western conference playoff teams don’t have any gaping holes as a rule. I think he’s an upgrade.

    74. “That’s why we have ephus”

      Totally agree on the complexity of the cap. It’s just too tough to understand.

      Honestly, this is all very frustrating to me. If we don’t resign Melo and get something approximating fair value for Tyson (somewhere between Mozgov value and Wright value?) we are in pretty great shape next season. We can go out and sign three blue chip players and credibly pitch a guy like Gasol to be the centerpiece.

      Instead, we are paying Melo’s knee the max, a solid chunk of which will probably go to a surgeon, and don’t have any kind of nucleus to build around.

      Where is Ruruland? I want hope, even if it’s false hope.

    75. Random thoughts

      1. I like Fisher, but IMO he has been terrible so far.

      a) He hasn’t done a good job of allocating minutes to the most productive players
      b) Multiple players are having career worst stats. That’s not random. That’s the coaching and system.

      2. I like Phil and my heart wants to trust him, but IMO he has been Donnie Walsh Part II so far.

      a) He’s giving up more long term value than he’s receiving in deals to create greater cap space now instead of just waiting given that we have no chance of winning anything next year anyway.
      b) He’s putting all his eggs in the FA basket, but there’s almost no chance Gasol, Aldridge, Butler, Love, or anyone else of true all-star caliber is going to come here.
      c) He resigned Melo

      The FA approach is badly flawed (especially now). No one leaves that much money on the table unless they are miserable and even then, they may not choose you. What you need is to accumulate young players and picks so you can do S&T deals to bring is stars.

    76. Honestly, this is all very frustrating to me. If we don’t resign Melo and get something approximating fair value for Tyson (somewhere between Mozgov value and Wright value?) we are in pretty great shape next season. We can go out and sign three blue chip players and credibly pitch a guy like Gasol to be the centerpiece

      Like I said above all of these trades are way different than the Chandler trade.

      1) Chandler makes significantly more than mozgov and Wright..

      2) he’s significantly older

      3) we got the 18th pick 2013 and 34. Of 2014 and 55 and Ellington who is serviceable

      On to Melo. I understand having issues with signing a 30 yr old but how is signing another one a solution to that?

    77. He’s giving up more long term value than he’s receiving in deals to create greater cap space now instead of just waiting

      Which deal was this?

    78. I like Phil and my heart wants to trust him, but IMO he has been Donnie Walsh Part II so far.

      There are two major differences between the two. First, when Walsh took over the team in 2008 he had much, much worse contracts on the roster. All of Phil’s major inherited contract were set to sunset naturally by 2011. His first move was to give Anthony a humongous max contract. If he hadn’t, then the measly money committed to Felton and Smith ($10 mil combined) wouldn’t have made any difference to his cap flexibility this summer.

      The second major difference between Walsh and Jackson is that when Walsh became President, he flatly stated the rebuilding goal: clear as much cap space over 2 years as possible (while winning as many basketball games as possible in the process). It didn’t turn out to be a great plan, but it was clear and coherent and he followed it religiously. Because of that, he is easy to judge.

      Phil has been aloof to the rebuilding plan outside of “changing the culture” and putting his faith in the power of the Triangle. He’s made moves to win now (throw money at Anthony while refusing to facilitate S&T with Bulls, trade for Cauldron, etc), then pivoted a few months later and started shedding salary again.

      So, yes, Walsh and Jackson are similar in their reliance on Cap Space to buy improvement with. But Jackson, literally sitting in the Laker’s front office in Los Angeles, seems to be making it up as he goes along.

      But the one thing we know about Phil is that, above all, he’s lucky as all hell, and because of that he’ll accidentally end up with the #1 pick and that player will turn into the greatest player of his generation. So there’s hope!

    79. “Suns send 1st round pick to Celtics for Brandan Wright”

      “Grizzlies send 1st round pick to Celtics for Jeff Green”

      2016 headline – “Celtics send eleven 1st round picks to Thunder for Kevin Durant”

    80. Which deal was this?

      1. He gave Shumpert away for nothing to get rid of JR Smith earlier. (kind of like Walsh used to do to clear out space for James). There was nothing stopping us from suffering though JR Smith for awhile longer (as sick as that makes me) while we were rebuilding and trading Shumpert for an asset. You eventually get that JR Smith cap space, it’s just a matter of when. He chose to give away something of value to get it sooner. That’s giving up more than you receive. You don’t do that unless you have a clear cut use for that space that creates more value now. The trade exceptions MAY have some value, but that’s speculative.

      2. There almost no way we got the best of the Chandler deal. He’s still a top center in the NBA. We got a decent starting PG (Calderon), possibly a decent back PG (Larkin), a backup C, and 2 second round draft picks that we are hoping turn out to be solid rotation players. You don’t give away all star caliber players for players that would be easy to replace, especially when the best of them (Calderon) is considered to have a bad contract.

      I get that Phil is cleaning house of certain personalities. I think that’s the right move. But he’s not doing good deals to get it done and he’s already changing course.

    81. Shumpert was not value simply because of his contract being up this year. I previous Ly advocated for resigning him but when I learned of his 6 mil cap hold this year I was out. He’s just not that good man. It’s been 4 years. And that helped rid us of JR .

      Why is everyone so confident that we won’t be good next year. Seriously? Can anyone give a legit reason?

    82. It’s still to early to tell if Phil is doing a good job. I have some doubts, but he’s done okay so far. Keep on gutting, Phil. The worse we get the more likely it is that precious demands a trade.

    83. So the knicks just signed Lance Thomas who they originally cut from the 3-team trade.

      Why? I guess there is some financial reason but what?

    84. His new contract is just a 10-day. I think if they hadn’t waived him his OKC contract would have become guaranteed and the Knicks would have owed him the remaining balance on the deal.

    85. It’s still to early to tell if Phil is doing a good job.

      Why is everyone so confident that we won’t be good next year.

      Phil’s done a poor job so far and the real issue is that we don’t project to be good enough in the future. If Melo’s health is a problem, we’re screwed and already the medical staff has said that his knee isn’t gonna get any better. .200+ WS/48 players like LBJ, Wade, Dirk can afford some slippage but a .160 player like Melo’s got no slack. 33,000 minutes is a huge number for a 30 yo. Korver’s who’s 33 has 23K, Millsap 20K, M Gasol 17K. Wade at 32 has got similar number to Melo but look at his health. Look at what’s happening to LBJ. And then there’s the fact that Melo was expected to add to that total in what was regarded as a meaningless season. You don’t sign a player with that profile to a max/NTC contract especially when we could have gotten great value from Chicago (I strongly maintain Butler/Mirotic were there for the taking). You don’t take a 1 in 4 chance that he’ll age like Pierce or Garnett.

      That’s the main reason but certainly taking on Calderon’s contract, using 3m to sign Jason Smith, Fisher’s performance – all rooted in his Triangle obsession – are problematic. What above average trade or signing has he made? Even our beloved Cole Train is starting to deliver like the Pony Express. There’s really nothing to like about Phil’s performance to date except that it may have been so bad that we’ll obtain a game changer in the draft. But should we give Phil credit for that when he said he believed we’d make the playoffs?

    86. I think it’s because now he’s just on a 10 day contract, so we can (hopefully) cut him once it takes us 10 days to realize he sucks.

    87. reports are Amundson will also sign a 10-day. Why not just sign a Seth Curry or Green then ship them to the knicks d-league team to get them acclimated until they can be called up. Is that allowed?

    88. Amundson, Thomas, these guys played a lot of NBA games. They aren’t good. Shit like this drives me fucking mad. Sign guys from the DLeague who have never played in the NBA or seem to have improved. Don’t waste time on guys who are proven to fucking stink.

    89. It’s like adding Earl Clark last year. Also why add another 3 after what Wear and Early just did. Are you going to take minutes from them?

    90. I think it just may be a little face-saving maneuver on Phil’s part- Look at the assets we got for JR and Shump! And getting 10 minutes a night from Amundson might keep Cole from melting into a big pool of butter. Hopefully, they’ll be gone in 10 days and we can get a look at some young d-league guys.

    91. We need another big before Cole strokes out on the court. Amundson is big, I guess, but he also has 0.0 upside. This season is going fucking nowhere. Roll the dice. All we have to lose is more games.

      JR torching the Warriors right now because of course he is.

    92. we’re all very interested in Draymond and Matthews

      It’s interesting that both these guys were 4 year college players. And because if it, both slipped way down in the draft, but both also developed into very useful professionals extremely quickly.

      Depending how draft positions shake out over the next few months, perhaps Phil should trade down and draft Montzrel Harrell or another upper-classman who has played played big games for a big college program? (Phil is old school– is he that old school? Those 19 year olds at the top of the draft probably won’t be developed until Carmelo Anthony’s window is long closed).

    93. just keep John Manziel away from JR in Cleveland and good Jr will probably appear and stay.

    94. I’d rather use 2nd rd picks for 4 year college players unless they are elite. Now if the knicks get the 3rd pick and Towns is off the board then call Ainge up to see if they can get a top 10 pick and 2nd rd pick.

    95. I really like Willie Cauley-Stein so I’d stay at three or four to take him. In the Kentucky games I’ve watched he’s actually impressed me more than Towns. He is two years older than Towns and has a lower ceiling so I’d go for Towns if possible but I still think he’s worth a high draft pick. Very, very Chandler-esque- big, super athletic high motor guy. Not a great fit for the triangle but screw the triangle- he’ll come in and play really good defense right away.

    96. I like him too actually. He has come so far and I think he does have more upside than people give him credit for. I just think he’ll drop in the draft a little.

    97. . I absolutely believe Chicago would have given us Butler and Mirotic in exchange for Melo/JR/Prigs.

      Butler was never close to being on the table. There was plenty of reporting on what Chicago was willing to offer at the time and some of it was conflicting (there is debate over whether Mirotic, for instance, was ever on the table). One thing that was consistent was the Bulls never put Butler on the table. Signing Melo didn’t make sense if they were losing Butler in the process. Their whole interest in Melo was to strengthen the team without weakening the rest of their then-current roster (hence their most typical offer being Boozer, both draft picks, Snell and maybe Mirotic).

    98. Butler was never close to being on the table. ….Signing Melo didn’t make sense if they were losing Butler in the process. Their whole interest in Melo was to strengthen the team without weakening the rest of their then-current roster (hence their most typical offer being Boozer, both draft picks, Snell and maybe Mirotic).

      There was really no good reporting at the time about that because Phil never even offered it as an option. He never even explored the possibility of a S&T. But put yourself in Chicago’s position at the time. Rose was either gonna be productive or not, Noah was aging and injury prone, and Taj had turned in his best performance. They stated they were in “win now” mode over the next couple of seasons, coveted Melo in that time context and were set up to sign him (Boozer’s contract). Butler had an OK but not great season and was gonna be an RFA. Mirotic was an unknown in the NBA. Even then, it would probably take him 1-2 seasons to become acclimated and be an important piece for a team in win now mode.

      Chicago wouldn’t have been gutted in a S&T because we could have sent them JR, Prigs and even Dalembert. I worked it out that through trade exceptions all that could have happened. JR had just finished the season strong , ending 4th in league in “catch and shoot” percentage and would have been a great fit next to Rose and Melo where he wouldn’t have to be a shot creator. So here’s Chicago’s roster: Rose/JR/Melo/Taj/Noah/McDermott/Prigs/Dalembert?/5m mle/Snell. Are you really arguing that Chicago wouldn’t have been ecstatic about that roster and not have to pay Boozer’s salary if amnestied? Indeed I believe we could have gotten a 1st round pick also in the deal! All Phil had to do was call Melo and Chicago’s bluff about him signing direct instead of via S&T.

    Comments are closed.