If They Required Multi-Year Market Rate Deals to Resign Them, Which Knick Free Agents Would You Bring Back?

Okay, I’ll do more salary cap stuff when it is closer to the actual free agency period, but as part of our all-poll content (and because we really need a new thread), I’ll just do a bare bones look at the Knicks’ four main free agents (assuming Elfrid Payton is clearly gone and that Taj is re-signable to either a vet minimum deal or a slight raise over his current deal which the Knicks are allowed to do as a sort of super mini form of Bird Rights).

So presuming that these four players could be brought back on roughly $13 million for Derrick Rose and $9-10 million for Bullock, Burks and Noel, who would you sign, provided that the deal would have to be longer than one season, thus cutting into cap room next season.

Derrick Rose

Would you give him $13 million a year for more than one year?

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Reggie Bullock

Would you give him $9-10 million a year for more than one year?

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Alec Burks

Would you give him $9-10 million a year for more than one year?

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Nerlens Noel

Would you give him $9-10 million a year for more than one year?

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508 thoughts to “If They Required Multi-Year Market Rate Deals to Resign Them, Which Knick Free Agents Would You Bring Back?”

  1. I went yes on Rose (even though it makes me queasy) and Bullock, no on Burks and Noel. Until the team brings in a few more significant playmaker/shot creator types, our offense pretty desperately needs what Rose can give it, even if it’s just for half the game. And even if I’d probably rather see him coming off the bench, Bullock just fits in very well on both ends of things, and feels more reliable on both ends than Burks does. Ideally, we will be upgrading on what Burks gives us, whereas Bullock has re-established himself as a very good 3-and-D wing. And I just can’t pay a center that much money if he’s as useless on offense as Noel, especially since we’ll have Mitch coming back and can either try to play Pelle more or find someone a lot cheaper in the draft or free agency.

  2. The poll results so far demonstrate just how hard it is to handle the building of this squad for next season, really.

  3. I’m not really crazy about any of these guys on multi-year deals and still haven’t really figured out what I think they should do.

    Bench-clearing brawl spillover:

    The yield curve plots treasury yields against something else. (I know what that something else is, but it doesn’t matter and it doesn’t matter whether I’m seen as knowing or not). Similarly a demand curve plots demand against something else. Supply curve plots supply against something else. Pretty clear pattern, right? Following the pattern, a win curve should be a plot of wins against something else. And if it’s not that, it’s not a win curve.

    My hunch is that people are getting at a plot of something like “basketball value” against wins, but that wouldn’t be a win curve, it would be a “basketball value” curve. And it wouldn’t (and couldn’t) be inter-year; it could only be intra-year.

  4. Does the definition of Win Curve actually even matter?

    People are expressing views on team building strategy. You either agree with what they are saying or you don’t. What you call it is irrelevant.

    On this point I actually agree with you, but…

    We just did a great job of finding MULTIPLE attractive contracts this year alone. One could argue our mistake was not giving a couple of them more years. They aren’t as rare as you are suggesting.

    See, this shows you fundamentally misunderstand the free agency market. There’s a reason we didn’t give them a couple more years: they wouldn’t have accepted them at such low AAVs!

    I would like to know your answers to the above questions, because they involve having to actually take a stance on specifics instead of just talking about how you would simply always negotiate team-friendly contracts that you would then parlay into the pieces needed to win a championship.

    First, I don’t eschew ANYTHING! You are the one limiting yourself to draft.

    1) No I am not, and no one else is either. People make the obvious point that the draft produces a lot more value-added contracts than free agency.

    2) You constantly criticize a strategy wherein teams take on bad contracts in exchange for future assets. That means you eschew doing so in favor of free agency. Sometimes that’s the correct choice, due to the existence of value-added contracts in free agency. It’s just meaningless to constantly repeat that we should sign value-added contracts in free agency without identifying specific opportunities because no one on Earth disagrees with such a vague and banal proposition.

  5. We’re so close on cap space for a max salary in 2022, I’d hesitate to give any of these deals. I was very close to voting no on all 4, and maybe I should have.

    I ended up voting yes on Noel & Bullock. We don’t have enough scoring, but I think Burks and Rose are pretty mediocre volume scorers who can be replaced. They’ve endeared themselves just because our other scorers are so bad. Ideally RJ & IQ to step up and take on their scoring loads. It won’t be easy and we’ll need some outside help, but I think they’re capable of it. I don’t want that much money tied up longterm in Rose or Burks.

    Noel is an elite or near elite defender and Bullock is the type of player who has a role on a contending team. I don’t really trust Taj to stay healthy and productive for a full year and think we should have a handshake deal to sign him midway thru the season again. So Noel is key to our defense until then.

    Our success was built on defense so the defenders are the priority for me.

    TLDR
    Yes: Bullock & Noel
    No: Rose & Burks

  6. I only voted “yes” on Bullock because I’m reasonably confident he’d maintain positive trade value for the duration of the contract. I think there’s room for disagreement on all fronts but Noel’s though (it would be silly to lock ourselves into him due to the widespread availability of bigs).

    The whole “simply only signing team-friendly contracts” thing isn’t so easy when you actually have to attach names and numbers huh?

  7. Here’s what those guys made last year:

    Rose-7 million
    Burks-6 million
    Noel-5 million
    Bullock-4 million

    None of them should be getting multi-year deals for 9 or 10 million. They’re not very good NBA players we like because they were on a team that overachieved because Julius Randle (mostly) was much better than we expected. I’d like Nerlens back, he’s at least a very good defender, but if he gets a 3 year 30 million offer from another team I’d probably say thanks for the good work. Rose is too old. Burks and Reggie aren’t particularly good.

    I voted no for everyone, I guess I’m a hater

  8. I put yes on all of Burks, Bullock, and Rose, though I would only sign two of three this offseason, not all three. I think all of them will maintain positive trade value if they perform to last year’s standards. There is always a high-level playoff team desperate for a 3 and D player like Bullock or a tertiary shot creator like Burks or Rose. I wouldn’t re-sign Noel. He’s too duplicative on defense with Mitch with none of the offensive oomph, and Taj is a perfectly cromulent backup or third string center–in fact, I feel like Taj outperformed Noel in the playoffs pretty thoroughly, though I haven’t actually looked at the stats. I just really can’t see giving money to a one way defensive player at a backup position.

  9. ” feel like Taj outperformed Noel in the playoffs pretty thoroughly, though I haven’t actually looked at the stats. I just really can’t see giving money to a one way defensive player at a backup position.”

    I do think this is important. Capela was able to cheat off of our Cs because they’re all such non-threats on offense. Taj has a few very basic offensive moves and was able to score a bit and Noel had that one game with 12 or so FTs. But it was more a result of the Hawks not caring than either playing good offense.

  10. I think Taj outplayed Noel in the playoffs but only because A. Noel was pretty much unplayable and B. Noel was clearly hurt.

  11. Another interesting question that has absolutely nothing to do with processes or curves:

    1. Would you trade for Ben Simmons?
    2. What would you be willing to give up?

    1. To me, the answer is a pretty clear yes, unless the cost is prohibitive (young player + multiple firsts). Simmons is still a max level player except when he’s undergoing a world-historical case of the yips like this past playoffs. He needs to do something about his shot, but he’s pretty much otherwise the complete package, and he’s valuable even when the game slows down in the halfcourt–coaches are just unwilling, in my view, to experiment with him in the screener role, or even a point-center kind of role.

    2. What I’d be willing to give up: I wouldn’t mind a Randle for Simmons swap straight up, but I can’t imagine the Knicks actually doing that. I imagine his value is somewhere around strong third option level player (e.g., Randle) or a young player plus a first. It doesn’t feel like Obi plus one of our firsts would be close to getting it done though, especially if McCollum is on the table…would something like a sign and trade for Bullock/Burks and a first for Ben get it done?

  12. I voted “no” to Rose and Noel (one because he’s not a starter anymore and the other because defense-first centers are easier to find/grow).

    I went with “yes” to Bullock (an average 3-and-D player when healty) and Burks (one of the few shot creators we have, albeit not always reliable).

    Burks is the one that I could easily change if the years are more than two…

  13. “Bullock-4 million”

    He was going to sign for $10M per year prior to getting injured. That deal wasn’t representative of his value as a player. He was viewed as a really solid 3&D player at his previous stops.

  14. See, this shows you fundamentally misunderstand the free agency market. There’s a reason we didn’t give them a couple more years: they wouldn’t have accepted them at such low AAVs!

    That’s possible in some cases, but we don’t know that in every case. It doesn’t matter much anyway.

    I am always thinking about creating a better team now and in the future as quickly as possible by keeping myself open to all options. I am open to potentially rolling players up into a better player, potentially flipping them for a pick, potentially resigning them long term, or potentially releasing them to reopen cap space. It all DEPENDS where the best value is next. I have no problem with resigning a couple of our 1 year free agents or adding a couple new ones. I want the best possible players on the best possible deals and can decide what to do with them later.

    1) No I am not, and no one else is either. People make the obvious point that the draft produces a lot more value-added contracts than free agency.

    2) You constantly criticize a strategy wherein teams take on bad contracts in exchange for future assets. That means you eschew doing so in favor of free agency

    1. I disagree with the premise that draft produces better value. It produces some of the greatest bargains early in a player’s career but often leads to having to pay a huge price later before you know if the player is even worth it. There are players no one here would have extended that became huge stars. It also produces some of the worst contracts. Did you like the Frank or Knox contract? Yeah, I know you never make draft mistakes. :-)

    2. I am not against accumulating picks, but if you think that market is not relatively efficient you are wrong there too. You can get picks for bad contracts, but when you take on a crap contract you can’t sign a productive player on a good or fair contract. There are ALWAYS tradeoffs that must be weighed against other options.

  15. Brian, our “win curve” saviour! :)

    [edit] Or maybe not, i’m seeing people didn’t let go of the topic. :(

  16. Voted yes on DRose and Bullock, after a really long pause on the DRose question… 13M is a lot of money, i think he’ll be cheaper than that, but ultimately with 13M (DRose) and 9M (Reggie) we’ll still have max money next year if we need to, so it’s all good. Burks is good, but we can’t pay them all. Noel is easily replaceable, so unless he signs for less, it’s “good bye, and thank you for your service”.

  17. I’ll throw out there that part of wanting to re-sign Noel is that I’m worried Mitch might bolt after next year. I love Mitch but it’s hard to tell where his head is at in regards to the Knicks. Who knows what happened, but Mitch cycling through agents and leaving W. Kentucky in the lurch makes me nervous about his commitment to the Knicks.

  18. When discussing players like Taj, Noel and even Mitch and all our free agents we are discussing role players. That means they have limitations (sometimes major) to their game that other teams are going to exploit, especially in the playoffs. That’s why they come cheaper than all-stars and two way superstars. You just have to accept that not every player on your team is going to be a great two-way player. Some nights some of your players are going to be up against a matchup or strategy that makes them look bad and other nights they may be the key to winning. Noel is a very good role player. So is Taj. I don’t know what the prices will be, but I’d like to keep Noel even if Taj comes back because I’m fairly sure Taj will be really cheap because he wants to stay in NY more than anyone. Unless the price is too steep or we find an even better player for the same price, I’d like to see Noel back too. He becomes essential if they wind up using Mitch as part of trade to bring in a star player.

  19. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada:
    Another interesting question that has absolutely nothing to do with processes or curves:

    1. Would you trade for Ben Simmons?
    2. What would you be willing to give up?

    I can answer both ways to the number 1 question while my answer to the number 2 change but not to much…

    First combination:

    1. No. I don’t want any non-shooter in my starting lineup (Mitch or “Center X” are enough), especially at 4Yr/140M
    2. Nothing because I don’t want him

    or I can go:

    1. Yes, reluctantly, if the price is really low or Morey give me something (like a first plus Maxey) for the trouble of taking away a problem to him.
    2. Close to nothing, let’s say Kevin Knox and a second in 2023.

    We’re talking about a player that just ended his 4th playing season (techinically the 5th) and for years blatantly refused to work on his shot despite everyone in the organization begging him to do it.

    He sees himself as a point guard and has taken 34 three pointers in 275 games (plus 2 in 34 playoffs games),
    with a career FT% of 56,4% (52% in the playoffs).

    I’m scared of taking a player like this during his max contract.

  20. On this point I actually agree with you, but…

    c’mon noble, considering your professional pursuit and all, you of all folks should appreciate the importance of set definitions…

    you can’t just make some shit up in your head, call it something it’s not, and then argue like crazy when some other individual isn’t guessing your made up in your head definition…

    i mean you can do, and it’s funny, but, not so legit…

    who cares though…back to basketball…hmmmm, or maybe food soon…

  21. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada: 1. Would you trade for Ben Simmons?
    1. To me, the answer is a pretty clear yes (…) He needs to do something about his shot (…) coaches are just unwilling, in my view, to experiment with him in the screener role, or even a point-center kind of role.

    I’m assuming you didn’t read the article Alan shared in the previous thread, or have you?

  22. I disagree with the premise that draft produces better value. It produces some of the greatest bargains early in a player’s career but often leads to having to pay a huge price later before you know if the player is even worth it. There are players no one here would have extended that became huge stars. It also produces some of the worst contracts. Did you like the Frank or Knox contract? Yeah, I know you never make draft mistakes. :-)

    Well, again, let’s look at our new favorite team, the true NBA title contenders the Phoenix Suns. They have the following dudes under contract, for these numbers:

    DeAndre Ayton $10M
    Mikal Bridges $4.3M
    Cam Johnson $4.2M

    Next year they’ll have all three of those guys back for a little bit more than that.

    Cam Johnson is a (useful) role player, but the other two dudes are very good starters. You get all three of those guys for $18.5M. Next year the three of them will cost around $22M.

    Knickerblogger Hive Mind would have drafted Bridges, and would have drafted Ty Haliburton, both of whom would still be here on cheap ass contracts. We’d be in position to whoop some major ass if Knickerblogger Hive Mind had made those picks. Haliburton-Barrett-Bridges-Randle-Robinson could have very easily been our starting five, and that would have been with 4/5 of the lineup coming through the draft.

    It’s not really that hard if you don’t whiff miserably on your picks.

    #3on3

  23. I’m kind of surprised that more people would rather sign Bullock than Burks at the same price (at least so far in the voting). IMO, Burks is a bit better all around player. I say that despite being a fan of 3&D players like Bullock. Not only do I think he’s better, I think since he’s the better offensive player he’s more essential to our team going forward unless we pull a rabbit out of our hat in the offseason and land an all star caliber offensive player. Then it would become a closer choice.

    The evidence is still slim, but imo our new management and coach has done just about everything right so far. I couldn’t be happier. They are doing things exactly the way I’ve been calling for. I’m going to trust they are going to get his off season right also. If they weren’t so good, we’d still suck, no one would want to come to NY next year, and we’d be praying for a decent roll in the lottery tonight so we could sign some kid that won’t be productive for 3-4 years and won’t be peaking in 6-8 years. The dark days are over. Keep moving towards the light!

  24. you can’t just make some shit up in your head, call it something it’s not, and then argue like crazy when some other individual isn’t guessing your made up in your head definition…

    It’s a simple concept, geo. Just about everybody here groks the concept except the borderline troll who disappears when the team starts winning games. It’s really not complicated, it’s just one poster being willfully obtuse about a concept that has been uncontroversial here for many years.

  25. @cyber

    I did. I’m still a believer in Ben. He’s obviously not a volume scorer and probably won’t ever be, but I think he’s a max-level player–even in the playoffs–when he doesn’t have the inexplicable yips that characterized his performance in this year’s playoffs. I think that’s mental, considering he was a perfectly acceptable free throw shooter in his prior two seasons (even in the playoffs). Hopefully this experience forces him to work on his game either by learning how to shoot some 2s from distance, or by inducing him to play a different offensive role (super-duper screen roll and cut big who’s also an elite defender and passer and transition qb, or whatever). Either of these would go a long way towards solving his half-court offense problem. In general I think the idea that you need to “build a team around his skillset” is overstated and only matters if you’re hell-bent on playing him at point without plus shooting and creation at the wing (which you need no matter what).

  26. Well, again, let’s look at our new favorite team, the true NBA title contenders the Phoenix Suns. They have the following dudes under contract, for these numbers:

    The extensions are coming and all won’t necessarily be clear. That also doesn’t include all the teams still buried in the lottery that tried the same thing.

    More important, more than half the people on this forum used to think Booker was an overhyped mediocrity and a terrible signing when he was given the big bucks. They probably would have traded him for some picks to some sucker (lmao), still be in the lottery, and CP3 would be in NY because he wouldn’t play with Ayton, Bridges, and Johnson.

    Hive Mind would have drafted Bridges, and would have drafted Ty Haliburton, both of whom would still be here on cheap ass contracts. We’d be in position to whoop some major ass if Knickerblogger Hive Mind had made those picks. Haliburton-Barrett-Bridges-Randle-Robinson could have very easily been our starting five, and that would have been with 4/5 of the lineup coming through the draft.

    I know, Knickerblogger is full of geniuses that never get a draft wrong. Then again, maybe we remember all the ones we got right and forget the ones we got wrong.

  27. JK47: It’s a simple concept, geo. Just about everybody here groks the concept except the borderline troll who disappears when the team starts winning games. It’s really not complicated, it’s just one poster being willfully obtuse about a concept that has been uncontroversial here for many years.

    You’re the one making up definitions and you’re the one making people guess at your (wrong) definitions. Yield curve means a curve of yields, win curve defined properly means curve of wins. Simple, straightforward. Any “win curve” that isn’t a curve of wins is a made-up definition.

    Honestly at this point I doubt you can even lay out even a wrong definition of what the win curve is.

    Pretty sure that’s what geo meant — this isn’t the first time he’s commented on this — but he can speak for himself.

  28. well, just to be clear, i would step on e’s toes for you jk :)

    you know what E – your information train is all jammed, man!!!

    oh yeah, almost forgot – and your thought processes are all fucked up…

    just kidding E, love ya and i still may need may need a lawyer some day…

  29. The extensions are coming and all won’t necessarily be clear.

    Dude.

    They’re title contenders THIS YEAR. They get all of those guys back for cheap NEXT YEAR. That’s a pretty good fucking deal! In other words, it’s very possible to get good value out of the draft, and to build a title contender that way. We know this BECAUSE THEY JUST FUCKING DID IT.

    Where you gonna find value like that on the free agent market?

  30. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada: @cyber
    I did. I’m still a believer in Ben.

    Ok, then you know how the player thinks and acts. I respect your opinion, of course, and maybe you’re right, maybe he can turn this around, maybe this humbled him and he’ll accept things he previously didn’t (like not playing at the PG spot). For me, i’d stay away after reading that the Sixers assigned him a shooting coach for the summer, one that had previous success, and he decided to do something else without them knowing it. If i was the owner of the team and knew about this, my next action would be to call the GM and instruct him to trade Ben for the most assets he could get.

  31. @ShamsCharania
    Nets free agent Spencer Dinwiddie has been fully cleared for all basketball activities, his operating surgeon Dr. Riley Williams says. Dinwiddie recovered from a partial ACL tear in just over five months. He enters free agency as one of the top point guards on the market.

    Assuming he is fully healthy and back to the player he was pre-injury, what kind of contract would you give Dinwiddie? He fulfills the attacking point guard archetype that Thibs loves, but as I understand it, his shooting isn’t the best.

  32. My issue with Burks is he’s never been an efficient scorer and he’s generally been better with the ball in his hands than playing off the ball. Burks is a solid bench scorer, but unless he an figure out a way to up his efficiency he’s never going to warrant paying him much money.

    Burks is a usage soaker whose offense is good enough when the Knicks are the #3 defense, but he doesn’t really cut it at the next-level. It’s helpful to have a secondary ballhandler, but longterm that will ideally be IQ’s role.

  33. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada:

    I think that’s mental, considering he was a perfectly acceptable free throw shooter in his prior two seasons (even in the playoffs).
    Hopefully this experience forces him to work on his game either by learning how to shoot some 2s from distance, or by inducing him to play a different offensive role (super-duper screen roll and cut big who’s also an elite defender and passer and transition qb, or whatever).

    My fault, I apologize, I wrote the wrong number in my previous post, Ben Simmons career FT% in the regular season is 59,7% (my dear friend The Plague is a 63% career shooter)

    2017-2018 – 56%
    2018-2019 – 60%
    2019-2020 – 62,1%
    2020-2021 – 61,3%

    Playoffs (small sample size caveat?)

    2017-2018 – 70,6% (Fine)
    2018-2019 – 57,5%
    2019-2020 – Injured
    2020-2021 – 34,2%

    we have a different grade of acceptability :-)

    I agree with you that using him in another offensive role could be a mitigating solution, with that lenght he can play at the 5 if he wants.

  34. Deeefense: More important, more than half the people on this forum used to think Booker was an overhyped mediocrity and a terrible signing when he was given the big bucks. They probably would have traded him for some picks to some sucker (lmao), still be in the lottery, and CP3 would be in NY because he wouldn’t play with Ayton, Bridges, and Johnson.

    I think this board has historically undersold high-volume players whose youth explains their inefficiency. I believe we’re re-evaluating that position. I don’t think the high-level strategy we’re considering should change as we’re reconsidering that position. It’s a fair and accurate critique, but it requires a change elsewhere and not necessarily the draft strategy

  35. Deeefense: I know, Knickerblogger is full of geniuses that never get a draft wrong. Then again, maybe we remember all the ones we got right and forget the ones we got wrong.

    An early candidate for the “Passive-Aggressive Award” of the thread

  36. Alan: Assuming he is fully healthy and back to the player he was pre-injury, what kind of contract would you give Dinwiddie? He fulfills the attacking point guard archetype that Thibs loves, but as I understand it, his shooting isn’t the best.

    Idk, I haven’t seen enough tape of Dinwiddie, but let’s just assume for the sake of argument that he returns to pre ACL-tear form. That’s a pretty solid drive-and-kick PG who doesn’t help solve your spacing issues and is a defensive sieve. He opted out of his contract at 12.5m or whatever it was, implying to me that he expects he’s going to be at least in the 15-20m AAV range, minimum. Not even counting the ACL tear downside risk, he’s a slightly above league average player in the vein of Derrick Rose. I think if the option space is re-sign Rose at multiyear (2-3) 13m plus some stopgap guard and sign Dinwiddie, I’d rather just re-sign Rose. To me, the only the good big-money PG options this year are: Lowry, CP3 (both depending on terms/years ofc), and Cam Payne. Everyone else just doesn’t present enough of a value, imo (maybe Rose, again depending on AAV years).

  37. Like Alan, I went Yes on Rose but No to the other three. Maybe call it recency bias, but the offense improved once Rose arrived (redux). I can envision him as an important bench piece who hopefully ages gracefully while the young lead guards (Quickley, draft picks, etc?) mature into the games and roles. Bullock was the closest to a yes for me b/c as good as he was, he’s a placeholder starter; hopefully by 2022-23 we’ll have found his long term replacement.

  38. geo:
    well, just to be clear, i would step on e’s toes for you jk :)

    you know what E – your information train is all jammed, man!!!

    oh yeah, almost forgot – and your thought processes are all fucked up…

    just kidding E, love ya and i still may need may need a lawyer some day…

    Mind … blown.

    I don’t want any of the four on multi-year deals. Road to nowhere. Time for a reboot. If they resigned Noel or Burks at very cut rates, I might be able to stomach a second year.

    The reboot starts with trying to buy low on Simmons and building things around him. Chance of occurrence — low. (Probably need to know whether he’s repped by CAA, that would change chance.)

  39. Alan: Assuming he is fully healthy and back to the player he was pre-injury, what kind of contract would you give Dinwiddie? He fulfills the attacking point guard archetype that Thibs loves, but as I understand it, his shooting isn’t the best.

    Does he accept 15M AAV? If he does, i’d do it. I think that contract is tradable, if needed.

  40. Rose: Yes! Where else are we going to find a pg with a 1.9 bpm, .9 vorp, .565 ts, .411 from 3. We were 24-11 after trading for him for a reason.
    Burks: Yes! .9 bpm, .9 vorp, Solid 2 way wing, who can play some pg in a pinch.
    Bullock: No, He had a solid year as well, but seems redundant with RJ and Burks. I would like a bigger sf in the starting line up. Even though he got hot from 3, he felt like a liability on offense, who made too many boneheaded plays.
    Noel: He had a good year, but backup centers make $5 mil. not 10 and he’s also a liability on offense.

    All of this is really contingent on how the draft goes.

  41. Alan: Assuming he is fully healthy and back to the player he was pre-injury, what kind of contract would you give Dinwiddie? He fulfills the attacking point guard archetype that Thibs loves, but as I understand it, his shooting isn’t the best.

    Max him for a 1yr deal (or min # needed to outbid other teams). Maybe $5M on a multi-year deal, which he will obviously reject.

    Dinwiddie doesn’t have the track record to make me think he can score efficiently in any given year. From an efficiency standpoint, he’s had 2 good seasons and 2 bad seasons (not counting the years he didn’t play much).

    I’d love to retain Rose (on a contract way less than $13M) and bring in Dinwiddie. It gives us a lot of shot creation and 48 min of PGs who are actually worth a damn.

    Dinwiddie can’t shoot, but his ft% is a strong .794 so he’s more promising on that front than Payton’s career .630. It’s not crazy to think that Dinwiddie might improve from 3.

  42. Deeefense: More important, more than half the people on this forum used to think Booker was an overhyped mediocrity and a terrible signing when he was given the big bucks.

    If you can’t laugh about the fact that the reason they thought that almost certainly had a whole lot to do with the Suns not being “on the right place on the win curve” you have no sense of humor and there are serious questions whether you have a soul.

  43. E, all merc’d out: If you can’t laugh about the fact that the reason they thought that almost certainly had a whole lot to do with the Suns not being “on the right place on the win curve” you have no sense of humor and there are serious questions whether you have a soul.

    Hey, some people think Phil Jackson deserved a B+ as POBO of the Knicks and still defend his tenure to this day!

  44. I don’t like the idea of giving Dinwiddie a big contract coming off a second major knee injury. I think he and his agent made a mistake declining that option.

  45. we basically have 20-25mm give or take to play with in terms of multiyear deals… and i think most of that is going to a pg of some kind… maybe that’s rose but i think it will likely be someone else…

    then it’s a matter of what we do with bullock’s slot…do we offer a massive one year deal to bring him back? do we offer someone like oubre a cheap multiyear deal? i don’t think a multiyear deal is in the offing unless we get a pg or sg/sf pretty cheap… so i think we’re likely in the one year deal category again…

    in any case i kind of hope we don’t bring anyone back since i think we still need to invest in youth since our window should extend for the next 4-5 years…

    other than that i hope we will lean on our draft picks.. IQ and obi for bench minutes…

  46. I don’t like the idea of giving Dinwiddie a big contract coming off a second major knee injury. I think he and his agent made a mistake declining that option.

    I don’t see how he could possibly do worse than $12.5 million for one more season. Especially since the Nets will likely be motivated to trading him in a sign and trade for an additional piece.

  47. The Knicks need players like Bullock and Burks, their skill set is essential especially because they are close to 40% 3pt shooters who most importantly actively look to shoot them. Plus they are both good sized wings who defend.

    The Knicks dont necessarily need specifically Bullock and Burks but they need players similar to them, the more the better.

  48. With the new (welcome) rule changes I’d be a little leery of relying on players who get a lot of their value from free throws. Dinwiddie has always been a player who does not shoot well, but makes up for it by getting to the line a lot, much like our own IQ, but without the 3-point shooting. Take away even some of those FTs and you have a low eFG% player who might have a hard time compensating by generating lots of FTs.

    The Knicks need some players who can generate a high eFG%. We were 23rd in the league in offensive eFG%, and not coincidentally 23rd in offensive rating.

  49. We could probably draft Duarte to fill the Bullock role. Replacing Rose would be more difficult so I’d go 2 for 20 for him. Burks 2 for 18. I’d probably let Noel leave and draft one of 3 centers to replace him with, Queta, Bassey or Jackson.

  50. I voted yes in Noel, but am having second thoughts. Early Bird is right about his offense. I do want defensively capable centers for the team, but I would think we could find one for less if he doesn’t have any offense.

  51. So if the new foul rules actually work and there is less foul shooting, will league average eFG% go down?

  52. JK47: With the new (welcome) rule changes I’d be a little leery of relying on players who get a lot of their value from free throws. Dinwiddie has always been a player who does not shoot well, but makes up for it by getting to the line a lot

    Hmmm, i think i’m going to withdraw the offer i made for Dinwiddie.

  53. Knick fan not in NJ:
    So if the new foul rules actually work and there is less foul shooting, will league average eFG% go down?

    Theoretically TS% would go down. Free throws aren’t factored into eFG%

  54. “Burks: Yes! .9 bpm, .9 vorp, Solid 2 way wing, who can play some pg in a pinch.”

    IQ: .6 BPM, .8 VORP, 1.5 OBPM (0.6 for Burks), can play PG in a pinch

    If Dinwiddie signs multi-year deal it’ll be for at minimum $20M. If people really distrust Dinwiddies injury or there aren’t teams with cap space, then $15M per year.

    CHI needs to make a play to keep LaVine. I could see them throwing a bunch of money at Dinwiddie.

    As for Rose, he was excellent but relied much more heavily on hitting midrange shots compared to every previous season and hit the layups he did get at a lower rate too. He’s 33 next season, has a bad injury history, he got injured immediately after pushing him passed his minutes limit. Law of averages on midrange shooting didn’t catchup with him this year, but I don’t want to bet against it next year, let alone 2 years or more from now. I’d rather give the money to the younger Dinwiddie.

  55. I agree Dude. Duarte would be a nice addition to replace Bullock and I think we could keep enough flexibility for one max contract next year. Hopefully that would be LaVine to be our #1 scoring option.

  56. Derrick Rose made our younger players better so he got my vote. I’d give him a two year deal.

    2 yrs, $20mm seems fine for Bullock, too. He helps Barrett by taking the tough assignments.

    Basically you have to help our young core on the court for me. Noel & Burks don’t do that.

  57. I don’t like Dinwiddie’s game at all, especially coming off acl surgery. Rose on a minutes limit with Vildoza, Quickley, Burks and a first round rookie prospect would be more than enough in my opinion. I also think Thibs will want Rose back. 2 yr for 25 mil. should do it.

  58. dinwiddie isn’t really much of a foul baiter.. i mean to a certain extent everyone does it… but the reason he gets to the line is that he’s pretty aggressive attacking the rack and he’s done that for most of his career..

    it is fair to say that a chunk of his value does come at the line.. and coming off an acl it’s possible it tanks…. but i think generally there is more upside than downside… i think there’s room on his 3pt% to improve for a variety of reasons and that his overall handle is so good and so clever that there is still some growth to his dribble drive game…. he really just needs to improve his midrange shooting but we’re not asking him to be a cornerstone offensive player … just be competent offensively and he can be that if he’s healthy…

  59. I always assumed Dinwiddie’s free throw rate was from being a 6’5″ PG who attacks the hoop all the time. I didn’t think he hunted fouls the way IQ or Trae do. If that’s not right, it definitely changes the calculus

  60. Rose

    10-16ft: 55%
    career: 44%

    16+ ft: 50%
    career: 42%

    3pt: 41%
    Career: 31%

    I want to bring Rose back, but I’d be very hesitant to put much money into a multi-year deal.

  61. Hubert: Basically you have to help our young core on the court for me. Noel & Burks don’t do that.

    While I’m not at all sure Noel is worth any real money, he indisputably helped our young core by erasing their many mistakes at the rim. That’s worth something. Don’t know what.

    If Mitch comes back totally healthy and able to play 30-35 a game, let Noel walk unless he plays for chump change. But Noel’s one-trick-pony act is worth something.

  62. I agree about Rose. I watched him hit so many shots that I didn’t expect to fall. The three point percentage is clearly high. I also don’t trust him to stay healthy for a full year.

    I wanted to answer no on all but then said yes on Bullock because I like his defense. But rationally, these are all overpays if you want to build a contending team. None of these contracts have much if any surplus value.

    I usually have some kind of idea of what direction the team should take but, as I have said a few times, this year I really have none at all. In Brock we trust.

  63. DudeInKnicksTown:
    NBA Draft Lottery Preview:
    We will NOT be drafting 8th this time.

    LOL! Now the question is: who’s going to be the dumb team that will select out of pure faith (or after a 3 on 3) a projected late first in the Top10?

  64. I voted NO to all.

    My sense is that the NBA is getting saturated with talent and there will be bargain contracts galore to be had. None of those guys are bargains at the proposed contracts.

  65. I would offer Dinwiddie almost any number he wanted…on a one-year deal. It might make some sense for him coming off a lost season to try to reestablish some value before signing a long-term deal. I don’t think a multiyear, $20M+ AAV deal would be on the table for him right now and maybe he could change that.

    Of course, if he does get such an offer he’d have no reason to do this.

  66. Would be funny if the Rockets passed on Mobley because they have Wood, and the Cavaliers because they have Allen. The Raptors would much appreciate it.

  67. No on all of them. Too much money and years for guys who should be replaceable in FA. Rose on a 2 year for 9-10mil a year wouldn’t be terrible, but I don’t think he signs for that.

    I’d be cool with the TNFH plan of giving Dinwiddie a big one-year deal to see what he has in the tank. I don’t love any of the expensive FA’s that are going to be available.

    Gonna be a tricky off-season, no doubt.

  68. i do think dinwiddie is a guy who would be worth a multiyear deal.. the age is right… his game fits our system… and the money should make sense…

    there just aren’t that many options and out of a bunch of bad ones… i’d probably prefer him over lowry and payne… payne might be a close decision… the only alternative besides that is to sign mcconnell to a big one year deal and punt til next year but the downside to that is trying to convince a FA to come here without a pg…

    would i pay over 20mm? absolutely not.. but i think he comes well short of that and that’s enough for it to make sense… dinwiddie is a legitimately solid pg and it’s actually a pretty long track record at this point so if he’s healthy and in shape it would be a great investment….

  69. Also, I still don’t know how I feel about Booker. The Suns are good because they have a lot of good players. I don’t think Booker is making all those other dudes good. Someone will tell me that’s the case but Mikal Bridges is a really good player whoever he is on the court with.

    Booker’s game 1 did open my eyes a bit, I will grant that

  70. Owen: Also, I still don’t know how I feel about Booker.

    That contract is going to be hard to hide once they have to pay Bridges and Ayton. And I think Phoenix is a little bit of fool’s gold with Paul leading the charge in VORP, etc. Once Paul moves on, they could find themselves holding $100M in annual guarantees to Booker, Bridges and Ayton, with a 45-win core to show for it.

  71. i’d probably prefer him over lowry and payne

    prefer him over graham or mcconnell?

  72. YeH, I agree THCJ. But they should have a few good years and maybe Booker will have trade value.

    Ayton is impressive

  73. ESPN’s first mock draft after the lottery has the Knicks taking Jared Butler at 19 and Sharife Cooper at 21. I’d love it if they get Butler, he’s 11th on Hollinger’s draft board.

  74. Meanwhile, Wasserman’s post-lottery mock has us taking Duarte at 19 (one spot after OKC takes Alperen Sengun, who some of the draftniks seem to like a LOT), Usman Garuba at 21, Charles Bassey (our Noel replacement? our Mitch heir apparent) at 32, and David Johnson from Louisville at 58. I think these are the same picks he made for us in his last pre-lottery mock, so we’ll have to wait and see how he shifts his take going forward.

  75. Apropos of nothing, Wander Franco went 2-4 with a double, homer, a walk, 3 rbi and 2 runs in his MLB debut. Rays do a lot with a little. Moneyball works for them.

    Jesus Ayton. Nice pass from Booker. And then the jumper.

    Beverley could have played in the 90’s

  76. prefer him over graham or mcconnell?

    i don’t think these guys are real options… there’s just no real point in giving them a one year deal and i think a multiyear deal for these guys would be a big mistake… and i absolutely adore mcconnell… graham i think is really close to what IQ does already. and overall a bad fit for what thibs wants as a pg…

    i think cp3 is the obvious first choice… but i assume he resigns given how far they got… i have some faith that sarver isn’t that dumb to cheap out on him…. then out of everyone else it’s either payne or dinwiddie… i wasn’t sure if he’d opt out but now that he has i think he’s the one…

  77. I could be wrong, but CP3 doesn’t strike me as the type that would let what happens in these playoffs affect his next move/contract. Let’s say the Suns win it all – I don’t see Paul getting sentimental, thus deciding to re-up with Phoenix so he can Suns-set (see what I did there?) his career there.

  78. Rose – Yes
    Bullock – No
    Burks – Yes
    Noel – No.

    Of these four, Noel is the only one about whom I feel strongly. Noel is a BAD offensive player because he fails to catch the ball. This was true during the regular season and the playoffs. His strong defense as a weak side helper at the rim is a plus, but he gives some of that back by being an average positional defender on the block.

  79. ayton cam payne and cameron johnson as the three best performances for the team leading a western conference finals game was unexpected

    ps i was no. no. no. no.

  80. Gotta give Payne so much credit for being literally out of the league to scoring 23 points through three quarters in the Conference Finals. Wow.

  81. The yield curve plots treasury yields against something else. (I know what that something else is, but it doesn’t matter and it doesn’t matter whether I’m seen as knowing or not).

    lol E has no idea what the yield curve is, either.

    (Not that there’s anything wrong with that; he’s just making a big deal of it, so it’s amusing.)

  82. I think I know less about curves after all the curvature of today.

  83. I voted yes for all but Burks. I don’t think 2021/22 is when we make a big splash in the FA market. We may sight one or two players, but I really think we’re going to build with youth. It’s a single point guard, to start. Maybe Quickley or Vildoza that starts? Thing is, we know the three I listed are good players. Rose as your backup PG/6th man is nice. The Mitch/Noel match was an awesome fit. Bullock is what Knox should have been.

  84. Just for the curious the yield curve plots yield (the interest you earn on your money) versus the maturity date (how long you are lending the money for). Normally you get a higher yield if you lend money (I.e. buy bonds) for a longer time than if you lend it for a shorter time. But not always. In those unusual cases you get a better yield for short term loans than long term ones.

  85. It’s probably technically an offensive foul, but what the fuck kind of call was that?

  86. I’ve just never seen anything like that before. They blew a whistle before they called a foul. What in the world?

  87. The theory is that when the refs think they see “hostile contact,” they are allowed to call time and review it to see if it was a flagrant or if it was just a regular foul or if it was no foul at all.

  88. Big shot by Booker, but wow, they didn’t do a good job of denying him the ball at all.

  89. Playoff P with the dagger.

    I don’t think that was an offensive foul in any regular season game.

  90. Wow. JVG is right. They would never call that regular season.

    But maybe its the right call. Seems like horseshit but Beverley might have got that one.

  91. I don’t get what Van Gundy is complaining about. Booker touched the ball last before it went out of bounds.

  92. I don’t get what Van Gundy is complaining about. Booker touched the ball last before it went out of bounds.

    Because you’d never review it for the first 46 minutes of the game and then suddenly it is reviewed for the last two and what would never be called earlier now gets called.

  93. Brian Cronin: Because you’d never review it for the first 46 minutes of the game and then suddenly it is reviewed for the last two and what would never be called earlier now gets called.

    Yes but it’s the correct call.

  94. Wow, what a game-winning shot! That’s some terrible defense by the Clippers.

  95. “OH MY GOD. Shades of David Lee!”

    Hahahaha, that twas definitely my first thought….

  96. Also, I’ve resisted hopping on the anti-replay train but tonight’s use was god awful. Absolutely destroyed the viewing experience down the stretch. I’m not for getting rid of it entirely, but you can’t let whatever this was happen.

  97. OH MY GOD. Shades of David Lee!

    David Lee was more amazing because they didn’t even play poor defense on the lob that time. This time, there was some terrible defense.

  98. technically speaking jeff… that’s a moving screen….

    Yeah, isn’t that funny? He’s talking about how amazing it was when it was clearly a moving screen.

  99. thenoblefacehumper: Also, I’ve resisted hopping on the anti-replay train but tonight’s use was god awful. Absolutely destroyed the viewing experience down the stretch. I’m not for getting rid of it entirely, but you can’t let whatever this was happen.

    Yeah, I don’t know what the fix is, maybe it’s getting rid of replay altogether, but this was brutal to watch.

  100. I mean, I had fun. If Ty Lue had put the right team on the court that would definitely have saved a ton of time.

    Would PG’s shot have been good if it went?

  101. It’s hard to argue with non-basketball fans about the dragged out end of NBA games. Really hard to watch.

  102. Very fun game but the replay shit is awful. Scott Foster must be so mad at Paul George

  103. Apparently it took 33 mins in real time to play the final 2 mins of game time. Still it was pretty damn fun to watch.

  104. Owen:
    I mean, I had fun. If Ty Lue had put the right team on the court that would definitely have saved a ton of time.

    Would PG’s shot have been good if it went?

    That would’ve helped but it was still awful and choppy and way too long. PG’s shot looked like it was way after the buzzer.

  105. Yeah, no doubt, that took way too long. They could have called a foul on Beverley on that Booker turnover out of bounds too looked like.

  106. I’m usually a pessimist about these FA contracts, but I doubt Rose gets that much unless it’s just for one year. Yes, he had a nice part of a season with the Knicks, but he’s been volatile in terms of production for years and is really old in PG years. I would think if he wants multiple years, he’ll maybe get nontax MLE at near $10m.

    The Knicks got several steals in FA this past year. That’s a big part of how they did well. These players are no longer gonna be steals as they all just had good seasons that drove up their value. You want to repeat or improve on last year, go find more steals. Easier said than done. That’s why I attribute last season’s upswing mostly to luck. Even a brilliant and well-connected GM isn’t gonna be able to get that much talent in that budget without a lot of high rolling. FA just isn’t built to provide that kind of value unless you sign a superstar.

    But yeah, if you want a chance at repeating this year next year, you can’t re-sign these guys at those numbers.

    Also, I would trade Randle for Ben Simmons in a heartbeat. Simmons is a two way player, monster athlete, who needs to improve maybe the most frequently improved skill in the game. Randle is already arguably worse than Simmons and is a lot less athletically gifted.

  107. I’m usually a pessimist about these FA contracts, but I doubt Rose gets that much unless it’s just for one year. Yes, he had a nice part of a season with the Knicks, but he’s been volatile in terms of production for years and is really old in PG years. I would think if he wants multiple years, he’ll maybe get nontax MLE at near $10m.

    $13.4 million is how much the Knicks can pay Rose using his Early Bird rights. I find it difficult to believe he’d take less than that from them.

  108. I don’t understand the love Simmons over Randle. Scoring is harder to get than defense and Randle actually defends too.

  109. Macri’s newsletter today raises an interesting point: the Cavs are likely to end up drafting either Suggs or Green, which would render one half of SexLand or the other redundant. And since Sexton’s about to get expensive, he’s probably the one they try to trade. I’m reluctant even if the trade cost is modest, because I don’t want to give him that next contract, but if the front office’s analytics can see him taking a leap, I wonder if Brock Aller might be willing to deal with his old team.

  110. Didn’t catch the 2nd half, and wow what a play to finish the game! Amazing!
    And George just can’t manage to make Playoff P go away… 2 missed FTs with the game on the line, i’m starting to feel sorry for the guy.
    Oh, and btw, what was that talk about CP3 being the reason for this strong Suns team? If Book, Ayton and Bridges isn’t a good core for the next decade, i don’t know what is! :P

  111. djphan: graham i think is really close to what IQ does already. and overall a bad fit for what thibs wants as a pg…

    DJ, i usually don’t disagree with you, and you might be right about the 2nd part (bad fit), to which we can add him being a RFA (so he won’t be a bargain or the Hornets will match), but the 1st part i don’t agree at all.
    One has a career 7.0 AST/36 with no season below 6.4 AST/36, and the other has 3.7 AST/36. Meaning only Graham is a PG as of now. I wouldn’t count out the possibility of Quick getting there, but it takes time to be good at setting up teammates and i don’t think any of the assists Quick had this year were of that kind.
    I’m with Geo in wanting Graham, if it’s on the cheap, but that probably won’t happen.

  112. The Infamous Cdiggy: I could be wrong, but CP3 doesn’t strike me as the type that would let what happens in these playoffs affect his next move/contract. Let’s say the Suns win it all – I don’t see Paul getting sentimental, thus deciding to re-up with Phoenix so he can Suns-set (see what I did there?) his career there.

    Imo, it’s more likely CP3 leaves if they’re Champions, because he’d already done what he committed himself to, than if they fall short, because in this case he’ll have unfinished business there and probably will re-sign there to end his career.
    The problem in getting him here is the fact that he seems to want to be near his family, and well, NY can’t be more faraway from LA, so it’s not likely but who knows? Until he puts pen to paper, we can fantasize with that plan. ;)

  113. @Alan: I don’t really like Sexton, but to be fair i didn’t watch the Cavs this year. Did he improve a lot? What will be the cost… not a max, right? :O And when?

  114. Z-man: Last night’s 0.9 second play would have never occurred with Elam ending.

    On the other side of the coin, 16 total points (the sum of both teams) wouldn’t take 33 real-time minutes to end the game. So even if it’s not the Elam ending, the “standard ending” must improve to not be like this.

  115. seemed like a great ending but I fell asleep during the 45 minutes when they were reviewing if the ball went off zubuc’s leg or not.

  116. I don’t understand the love Simmons over Randle. Scoring is harder to get than defense and Randle actually defends too.

    I think it started as a buy low, sell high trade. But now Simmons is so low and Randle is so high that it makes little sense.

  117. Last night’s 0.9 second play would have never occurred with Elam ending.

    wouldn’t have occurred if Thibs were coaching, either. Coach would have drawn up Booker taking a turnaround fadeaway from the logo like Game 1.

  118. Matt Sullivan: “Let me give you guys a little news, I’m not sure that’s been out there. I’ve heard that Nets ownership was quite upset with Kyrie’s ‘pause,’ especially that maskless party that turned his psuedo-paternity leave into more like a COVID suspension. And in the last week I’ve heard rumblings – whispers, really, because cracking the Nets is kind of like breaking into the Kremlin, that Brooklyn GM Sean Marks would maybe, possibly, apparently be willing to at least listen to a trade offer for Kyrie this offseason. Now, I’m not sure what the market for Kyrie is at this point. It’s not like Ben Simmons giving you the headache on the court. It’s that complex personality that comes from off the court. I think it’s been annoying some people in the franchise. I can’t speak to his teammates, who obviously want to play with one of the world’s best and get him back there.”

    Whaaat?? :O

  119. whispers, really, because cracking the Nets is kind of like breaking into the Kremlin, that Brooklyn GM Sean Marks would maybe, possibly, apparently be willing to at least listen to a trade offer for Kyrie this offseason.

    There were reasons I wanted nothing to do with Kyrie and it wasn’t because of his handle or shot making.

  120. Rockets general manager Rafael Stone told reporters after the lottery that he was open to trading the No. 2 pick. “We don’t want to foreclose anything,” he said. “We’re open to a trade.”

    Now, this is good news. Let’s do it, Leon, get Mobley here. :)

  121. It’s starting to look like the Suns didn’t make as big a mistake as it initially looked when they took Ayton over Doncic. He has a way to go to close the gap, but imo Ayton has the potential to become a two-way game changer. He has some good skills and terrific athleticism.

  122. The Simmons/Randle logic would be that while both were awful in the playoffs, Simmons but not Randle are bogged down with a bunch of pieces that don’t fit his game. And of course that Simmons has a wider skill set at a far more premium position. Plus Simmons is two years younger.

    Simmons is definitely more high maintenance and a bit of a risk, but the upside with him in the right role is way higher than the upside with Randle in his right role.

    And again, this isn’t about certainties, it’s about uncertainties and being comfortable with risks and projections and expected values.(*) Your upside is higher with Simmons than Randle. That said, that trade could turn out to be a dud. The ‘net loves hawt takes, the real world … not so much.

    The Knicks as constructed are in the blah, low ceiling middle and a reversion from their current 47 spot on their win curve is as likely next year as an improvement on 47 — frankly, it’s significantly more likely (save for somehow getting a real superstar.) The residue of fluke is all over the 47. Of all the teams in the past 20 years whose win curves have trended to 47 on roughly the same path as the Knicks, the Knicks could literally be the flukiest 47 and the most likely to revert.

    (*) It sure as shit isn’t about curves.

  123. I think George simply missed the first free throw. His form and body language looked fine to me. But when he missed the first one the pressure to make the second one really spiked. He didn’t look as good on the second one. I feel bad when guys choke a shot. It’s the fear of choking in front of your peers and the blow to your ego that comes with it that causes you to choke to begin with. Even great players are human.

  124. I am surprised that people voted ‘no’ on Noel the most. I voted ‘Yes’ for Noel and ‘No’ for the rest.

    Noel is 27 and has been fundamental for us once Mitch got hurt. I am not sure about Mitch’s health, so I think having Noel is the safe option. Not only that, we would have two real defensive Cs that also have 12 fouls to give, Thibs has no reason to worry too much about one of them fouling out, because he has the other.

    Burks and Bullock will be 30 by next year. Burks has been very good for us, but I do not trust him to have the same year he had, and also, his value came from ball-handling duties due to our bad PG situation. If we solve our PG problem in the offseason, I don’t think there is much need for Burks. Bullock also has been very good, and I trust him more to be as important for us as he was this year. However, 10 million seems a lot to me for his production. Will all of Danny Green, Doug McDermott, Kent Bazemore, Tony Snell get more that? Someone also mention Furkan Korkmaz some time ago. He is 23, he is not restricted, and looking at the bkref data page, he profiles to be a similar player to Bullock, but just entering his prime; he might even get better. I think we should exhaust other options before offering that kind of money to Bullock.

    With Rose, i am on the fence. He has been very good, and 13 million is low for this kind of production… but it seems so risky, with his injury history and age. I would not offer him more than a 2 year deal at that money, and only if we do not get any other PG in free agency.

  125. I don’t think there’s any question there was some “fluke” in the Knicks win total this year. That’s mostly irrelevant. This isn’t about counting wins and trying to top last year’s total. A lot of teams will improve, some will get worse, a few will be the same, there will injuries, a few players will have random above average or below average years etc.. All that will contribute to our win total next year eventually.

    What we need to be concerned about is our position and ability to keep improving.

    We are in good shape there.

    We have several players with upside, multiple 1st round picks to draft players, move up, or package in a trade, an excess 1st round pick next year to make or trade, and plenty of cap space. We are positioned as well we have been in a very long time to improve. Now it’s on management to develop the younger talent we have and use that position to bring in better players on a net basis than we had last year. If we keep getting better, the win total will take care of itself.

  126. I’m with Geo in wanting Graham, if it’s on the cheap, but that probably won’t happen.

    i mean i have a pretty low opinion of graham so i could be biased… i’m just not a fan of guys with a low 2pt% and that’s a big reason why i think we’re not considering IQ as an option for the pg slot…. they just don’t bend defenses enough…. if they’re in the paint are people actually rotating over to stop their floaters? are they kicking it out enough times for it to matter? and for graham he’s not only had low 2pt% for 3 years… it’s actually declining…

    the assists are there and graham plays a pretty heady game… he’s already a very unique player so his development could go in all sorts of directions… but looking at his game right now…. i’m not sure if adding a ton of pullup 3s is the answer we’re looking for in our offense… we run a ton of pick and roll so i’m not sure what part of his game moves the needle to unlock parts of randle or rj’s game ….

    with dinwiddie i think it’s pretty clear… he’s good to very good in the pnr… he ran it in pretty well in brooklyn…. with .89 ppp in 2020 at a freq of 48% and .99 ppp in 2019 at 36%….. graham this year was 29.4% at ppp of .72 and last year 45% at .90…. i’m not a big fan of playtype metrics but this is just one way to show their fit differences…

    i think you can justify graham… but i prefer to land the bigger fish than spreading out the cap money… because in my view come playoff time you need all the big guns you can muster….

  127. We’ve gotta stop with the “hey, Trae Young and another pick doesn’t look so bad for Luka” or “Ayton is making passing over Luka not such a terrible move”

    Luka is a once in a generation talent and a future multiple MVP winner. Young and Ayton are fine players, but any Hawks or Suns fan who says they’re fine with who they ended up with is full of shit

    (And Kings fans, damn, Marvin Bagley? Now that is pure suffering)

  128. d-mar: Luka is a once in a generation talent and a future multiple MVP winner. Young and Ayton are fine players, but any Hawks or Suns fan who says they’re fine with who they ended up with is full of shit

    Obv, in a vacuum any sane GM takes Luka over Ayton 100 times out of 100. I don’t think anyone disputes that.

    But, man, this Suns team is so beautifully constructed. All the pieces just fit so well together. Watching Ayton last night, I found myself wondering whether this team – as it presently stands – would have made it this far with Luka instead of Ayton.

    Given the current devaluation of the C position on the NBA market, PHX may well have been able to find a reasonable facsimile w/o breaking the bank. That said, Ayton is quickly establishing himself as one of the best rim protectors and dive men in the league so I’m not sure how easily his production could be replicated. Luka, of course, would have made acquiring a Chris Paul unnecessary but one wonders how Doncic and his 36% Usg (CP3’s is 22%) would have co-existed with Booker and his 33% Usg.

  129. Sam Vecenie’s post-lottery mock draft has us taking Isaiah Jackson at 19, Jalen Johnson at 21, Herbert Jones (Alabama wing) at 32, and Matthew Hurt (guard from Duke) at 58. I don’t love taking two big men with our firsts when we need guard and wing help more. But Johnson’s the kind of upside play you can take when you have two firsts , and Jackson not only makes it painless to say goodbye to Noel, but gives us some flexibility if we want to use Mitch in a package for guard/wing help.

  130. The biggest problem with a Simmons/Randle trade, beyond whether or not you think Simmons is salvageable, is that Philly’s not going to want Randle. He doesn’t fit what they need, backcourt/wing help, and he fits terribly next to Embiid so you’d need to figure out a 3rd team that would want Randle and satisfies Philly’s needs.

    djphan: i’m just not a fan of guys with a low 2pt% and that’s a big reason why i think we’re not considering IQ as an option for the pg slot

    I’m pretty sure IQ isn’t being considered of PG is because he clearly isn’t a PG. I like him but he clearly doesn’t have much playmaking ability.

  131. ***Philly’s not going to want Randle. He doesn’t fit what they need, backcourt/wing help, and he fits terribly next to Embiid so you’d need to figure out a 3rd team that would want Randle and satisfies Philly’s needs.***

    Randle/Simmons/McCollum then.

    But, not sure how Simmons works with what NY needs, which is a bit more pertinent to this than what Philly needs.

  132. I actually think Randle pairs nicely with Embiid. Despite being a PF Randle played more of a perimeter-oriented game last year. He helps spread the floor, handles the ball, and is a playmaker… all traditional perimeter skills. R

    Randle rarely had opportunities to score in the paint thanks to Taj, Noel, Elf clogging the paint.

  133. I’m pretty sure IQ isn’t being considered of PG is because he clearly isn’t a PG. I like him but he clearly doesn’t have much playmaking ability.

    i’m saying the 2pt% is reflective of his deficiencies in being a pg.. he’s not much of a threat once he breaks the 3pt line… same goes for graham… so the gravity that they cause with their dribble drive game is pretty weak… defenses will ignore them on the pnr and live with their floaters against medium pressure or just wait for them to dribble out to the 3pt line again….

    if IQ were to become better in 2pt territory … i’m sure his ability to draw defenders with his dribble drive game will increase and all of a sudden the perception will turn… but that’s still an open question….

    the difference with graham is that when he has the ball he looks to pass more… but it’s also an open question with him…

  134. vincoug:
    The biggest problem with a Simmons/Randle trade, beyond whether or not you think Simmons is salvageable, is that Philly’s not going to want Randle.He doesn’t fit what they need, backcourt/wing help, and he fits terribly next to Embiid so you’d need to figure out a 3rd team that would want Randle and satisfies Philly’s needs.

    I’m pretty sure IQ isn’t being considered of PG is because he clearly isn’t a PG.I like him but he clearly doesn’t have much playmaking ability.

    Totally concur on Philly and Randle, but my hope would be that Philly somehow rationalizes it and talks themselves into it. You can squint and find a way to rationalize it , but no Randle doesn’t fit with Embiid. (That’s probably the biggest problem with Julius; he really doesn’t fit with many people at all. To get him to fit requires a downgrade of his role. Just *the* fundamental issue with the guy.)

  135. Simmons only fits in NYK with a conscious and sizable reboot, he’s not remotely a plug-and-play option. I’d favor that; I doubt the Knicks will.

  136. Ayton was sort of underrated as a prospect. I mean for a #1 pick. The Suns obviously should have taken Luka but Ayton had the potential to be the kind of big that is worth a high lottery pick

  137. I don’t want Simmons under any circumstances. Period. The Knicks have been plagued with good defenders that can’t shoot. The next point guard that we have as a starter must be able to defend, run an offense and score at all 3 levels. Enough of running like a hamster on a wheel.

    I’m looking for you opinion (most of you have studied the draft more than me). How do you rate the talent overall?

    Much of what I’ve read indicates that the top of the draft doesn’t really have a true OMG stud but that the draft is really deep. I didn’t love what I saw of Cunningham (although I only saw his earliest games this year). He may not even end up as a true PG. Mobley and Suggs look legit but we’re not looking at Embid and Harden. I’m sure there’s a drop off somewhere, but 19 and 21 look like sweet spots where there may be a lot of good players. 32 isn’t bad either.

    So, how do you read it?

  138. Straight from the heart i voted No to everyone but Bullock.
    I wouldn’t mind them all coming back but at much better deals.

    Btw DRose floating figure reminds me of meat guru Salt Bae throwing salt so…the Pfizer trip was much worthwhile so far!

    #Frank 3/18#

  139. vincoug: I’m pretty sure IQ isn’t being considered of PG is because he clearly isn’t a PG. I like him but he clearly doesn’t have much playmaking ability.

    I disagree. He didn’t play PG his final year at Duke and then had a short off-season and was behind 3 other guards so he didn’t get much of a chance at lead guard. But he showed great skill and smarts. He has weaknesses. He’s not super fast. His defense needs to tick up a bit and he’s not great at driving to the hoop. Both his defense and driving ability might improve as he grows into his body more. I wouldn’t mind seeing him running offense. He just needs experience to show his playmaking ability.

  140. I really hate agreeing with the noblefaceguy but seems that after being VaxBrother with Cybersoze i became PollBrother with Noblefh and Owen!
    Life never stops amazing me!

  141. Ayton was sort of underrated as a prospect. I mean for a #1 pick. The Suns obviously should have taken Luka but Ayton had the potential to be the kind of big that is worth a high lottery pick.

    i would highly disagree with that…. ayton was not like KAT or embiid or davis coming out… he was the kind of big who was highly dependent on others creating for him and he was rather soft on both sides of the ball… he was never looked at a lynchpin for a defense… that’s why he was a clear notch below some of the top guys… even though he was treated similarly before the draft… he was the consensus #1 with a loaded class behind him… which was crazy talk then and in hindsight…

    he was a good prospect in the sense that he had a good chance to be brad daugherty or andrew bogut… they would however be always at least a tier below the top guys and had enough deficiencies to never carry a team themselves… and that’s exactly what ayton turned out to be… how that is enough to be the unquestioned #1 pick a number of times i will never understand…

  142. Knew Your Nicks: I really hate agreeing with the noblefaceguy but seems that after being VaxBrother with Cybersoze i became PollBrother with Noblefh and Owen!
    Life never stops amazing me!

    We’re all Knicks brothers! ;)

  143. Randle is a legit stretch four now, and he’s a physical defender who doesn’t get roasted by the quicker 3/4 type wings. He stunk in the playoffs but he’s a perfectly playable, versatile stretch four in the modern game, unless his 2020-2021 season turns out to be a complete fluke. He’d play well next to most 5’s.

  144. Sam Vecenie’s post-lottery mock draft has us taking Isaiah Jackson at 19, Jalen Johnson at 21, Herbert Jones (Alabama wing) at 32, and Matthew Hurt (guard from Duke) at 58. I don’t love taking two big men with our firsts when we need guard and wing help more. But Johnson’s the kind of upside play you can take when you have two firsts , and Jackson not only makes it painless to say goodbye to Noel, but gives us some flexibility if we want to use Mitch in a package for guard/wing help.

    I’m not sure what to make of mocks drafts this year as the Knicks have pretty vocally committed to moving up.

    I don’t see them taking a big in the 1st round. With how many bigs seem viable in the 2nd, I just don’t understand why they’d take one there. Jalen Johnson I’d definitely consider, but I think we’ll go with a wing or PG.

    Anyone have thoughts on who we might trade up for? I could see it being Kispert.

  145. Hopefully the Sixers concur, because it would be excellent to pawn him off to them at what will virtually surely be the peak of his value.

  146. Re: Randle

    What could my team want with a player who can shoot, defend, rebound, pass, drive, and roll to the basket?

    A lot of smart GMs are asking themselves this question.

  147. Hopefully, they’ll ask and decide they want to pay top-level retail for him.

  148. I’m not sure what to make of mocks drafts this year as the Knicks have pretty vocally committed to moving up.

    To be fair, guys like Wasserman acknowledge this on their Knicks blurbs in each mock. Basically, we’re too far out for them to be suggesting fake trades, so it’s, “I don’t think the Knicks will make both of these picks, but if they do, this is who I think they would take.”

  149. Porzingis at his peak value could have brought in Booker plus and even his value when he was actually traded was significantly higher than the dreck and two meh draft choices for which Pills settled, so we really shouldn’t pass up this opportunity if it presents itself. Randle is never, ever going to be worth more than he’s worth right now. That’s when you sell.

  150. I’m not sure what to make of mocks drafts this year as the Knicks have pretty vocally committed to moving up.

    have they been pretty vocal about it or is this just what everyone is assuming? i don’t really understand how we fill close to 10 roster spots if we’re consolidating picks…

  151. As to the draft, we’ll obviously obsess about it, but the expected value of these two picks is not high and the market value of each of them is less than the value of a pick a team would be willing to throw in to unload a contract (established by Kemba to OKC.) Expectations should be so aligned. It’ s better to be lucky than good, but to get anything much above “decent rotation player” would need some luck and there’s a decent chance they won’t even get that.

    The bill for the Thibs wins and the playoffs (awesome as they were) is now coming due. And it’s hitting muscle, not just fat.

  152. To be fair, guys like Wasserman acknowledge this on their Knicks blurbs in each mock. Basically, we’re too far out for them to be suggesting fake trades, so it’s, “I don’t think the Knicks will make both of these picks, but if they do, this is who I think they would take.”

    Oh, certainly. And I don’t fault them for it. I still read all of them and see who they have us picking. It’s more that I just find myself more at a loss for evaluating prospects and not digging into the nitty gritty when I think we’re unlikely to pick there.

    Normally before the draft I’ll research the heck out of the 3-4 players projected to be drafted around us in various mocks, plus whichever names get floated about on here, but this year I just have no clue.

    Jalen Johnson sounds intriguing, possibly a Mitch-like steal in that both walked from his college team. Another C doesn’t make sense to me. I consider Pelle our project C because of an article that was pretty effusive of his defense and his journey back to the NBA. Plus Taj is always waiting in the wings.

  153. “have they been pretty vocal about it”

    I don’t recall the sources, certainly nothing official, but I’m pretty convinced it’s happening regardless of its merit. There’s enough smoke around it.

  154. “Randle is never, ever going to be worth more than he’s worth right now.That’s when you sell.”

    How do we get you to take another three month vacation?

  155. Leon Rose’s moves have been minimalistic but efficient as fuck so far.
    I’m waiting for his Summer of 2021 Moves Tour to be at least entertaining!

  156. i mean i’m sure people are speculating about it… but i think it’s coming from folks who aren’t all that familiar with our roster situation…

    or there really is smoke and its the knicks who aren’t all that familiar with our roster situation….

  157. I haven’t done a deep-dive on Garuba yet but my initial instincts are that both him and Jackson would be a waste of either of our first rounders.

    Jackson is definitely an interesting prospect who I think has more upside than the typical rim-runner type, but with Mitch already in tow and the widespread availability of similar, if not quite as good, players I still don’t think you can justify using a first-rounder on him. You can pretty much copy and paste that when it comes to my opinion of Garuba.

    The Butler situation is scary and I hope it all works out. If he’s cleared, he’s definitely one of my favorite prospects within our range. I’d be pretty happy with any two of him/Dosunmu/Duarte/Springer/Thomas/Christopher/Cooper.

    I definitely like the idea of taking Bassey in the second-round, and on the 1% chance we actually roster the 58th pick David Johnson is probably about as well as you can do there (I’d prefer Champagnie and Wieskamp).

  158. I mean, I do agree that it makes some sense to trade Randle right now at a high. I don’t think that really has much bearing on teams thinking he won’t fit on their rosters. If you look at the PFs around the league, I don’t think there’s any team that would say no to Randle. Randle may regress, but I don’t expect him to shoot sub-.300 from 3 or lose the ability to pass.

  159. First move is to offer the Pellies Randle, Obi. Quickley and four #1s for Zion, and then leak it.

  160. djphan:
    i mean i’m sure people are speculating about it…but i think it’s coming from folks who aren’t all that familiar with our roster situation…

    or there really is smoke and its the knicks who aren’t all that familiar with our roster situation….

    It’s been floated around enough that I believe the Knicks plan on it. idk

  161. It’s floated around everywhere because everyone knows Thibs doesn’t want two meh rookies on his team.

  162. Did you see Cameron Payne’s 30 and 10 game last night? What’s he worth?

  163. Celtics hiring Ime Udoka as their new head coach. He was a guy who intrigued me during our search last year, even though it was clear we were hiring Thibs. You’ve gotta figure Pringles gets a new job, too, which leaves the question of how many assistants Steve Nash will have to replace on that Nets staff.

  164. @ShamsCharania
    Team USA’s 12-man roster for the Tokyo Olympics:

    Kevin Durant
    Damian Lillard
    Bradley Beal
    Jayson Tatum
    Devin Booker
    Zach LaVine
    Kevin Love
    Bam Adebayo
    Draymond Green
    Jrue Holiday
    Khris Middleton
    Jerami Grant

    Harden dropped out to focus on rehabbing his hamstring injury.

  165. glad we should have a chance to see RJ play…interesting to see if Frank shows up for france…i’m guessing vildoza will be on the court for his country…

    wow, dame, book, lavine, durant and bam out on the court is gonna be fun to watch…

  166. I think the US will win the gold this year.

    In fact, I think this team would beat the original ‘92 Dream Team.

    (In fact, I think this team would make the original ‘92 Dream Team look like Angola in the process of beating them)

  167. E, all merc’d out:
    Randle is never, ever going to be worth more than he’s worth right now.That’s when you sell.

    Never? Never? So, you’re 100% sure that Randle will not duplicate this past season’s #s for next season at almost $22mil? I mean, there are reasons why he may not (decrease in 3FG%, failure to replicate mid-range prowess, decrease in defensive efficiency), but to say he NEVER will be? That’s an absolute that neither you, me nor anyone else truly knows.

    The bill for the Thibs wins and the playoffs (awesome as they were) is now coming due. And it’s hitting muscle, not just fat.

    Sounds like you’re reverting back to the consequences of the team overachieving is missing on selecting a lottery pick. I’ve stated on here that while lottery picks are great, we have all now realized the value of installing an organizational structure and coaching system that is at the very least competent and better, can develop players. To me, especially given how badly this team was run for most of the century, is worth a draft pick to me. Because it’s potentially sustainable.

    I get that your definition and disdain of a merc is a bit more… broader… than many here. Let me ask you two somewhat unscientific questions:
    1. Do you believe the “merc” contribution far outweighed any contribution and development of the young trio of RJ, IQ and Obi?
    1A. Roughly what percentage would you assess merc contribution to the young trio’s contribution?
    2. Do you believe there’s a chance that said mercs may have contributed to the development of said young trio?

  168. Donnie Walsh:
    I think the US will win the gold this year.
    In fact, I think this team would beat the original ‘92 Dream Team.
    (In fact, I think this team would make the original ‘92 Dream Team look like Angola in the process of beating them)

    Donnie, with all due respect, there’s no way in hell this team would win against the Dream Team. Clearly you don’t remember the Dream Team.

  169. The ‘92 Dream Team would lose because John Stockton would give Covid to all of them

  170. DudeInKnicksTown: Utah State’s Neemias Queta had an awesome first day at the NBA Combine, shooting the ball well, making some nice passes and showing terrific timing and instincts defensively. Definitely one of the standouts of the day.

    Oh man, and he starts the video with a 3 pointer!? Even i was surprised by it. :O
    Maybe this will take him out of our reach, but i’m happy for the kid. :)

  171. Here’s the roster, by BPM league rank, out of a pool of 179 players:

    Kevin Durant 7th (DNQ)
    Damian Lillard 10th
    Bradley Beal 31st
    Jayson Tatum 23rd
    Devin Booker 93rd
    Zach LaVine 21st
    Kevin Love (DNQ, 0.0 BPM)
    Bam Adebayo 14th
    Draymond Green 55th
    Jrue Holiday 25th
    Khris Middleton 64th
    Jerami Grant 73rd

  172. A lot of teams will improve, some will get worse, a few will be the same, there will injuries, a few players will have random above average or below average years etc.. All that will contribute to our win total next year eventually.

    strat’s girlfriend: “hey i’m gonna order grubhub what do you want?”

    strat: “eating food is essential. for years i’ve been saying that the only path to metabolism is to procure edible items that will fit down your esophagus. people thought i was crazy. i guess they are finally catching on. lol.”

    gf: “i have a coupon for $10 off cheesecake factory.”

    strat: “what’s important is that the food is good, and also a bargain. but you may pay a little more for your first option. unless that option is not very good, in which case you should find a better food option, at a better price. as long as you are eating the best food, at the best prices, you will be fed.

    gf: “okay so chinese then?”

    strat: “lol all these stats guys think they discovered the wheel because they can order egg rolls on their palm pilots and calculate the tip. i used to have a system that would predict the overnight yuan fix based on a series of variables printed in fred hickey’s high tech strategist. nowadays you have twitter brainiacs gorging themselves on steamed dumplings as if shenzhen wasn’t the biggest estate bubble since the everglades.

    gf: “i just did shake shack again. no coupon. can you get the door when it comes”

    strat: “all the analytics nuts love to have these 18 or 19 year olds deliver their burgers. half these kids couldn’t find the pay phone at belmont. maybe they show up with your fries in two or three hours. then you have to pay them. for all you know they downed half your relish packets. what they don’t realize is that instead of asking a bunch of toddlers to maybe deliver you a soggy burger in ten years, you should be eating the best food at the best prices. i’ve been saying this…

  173. The Dream Team had Ewing and Robinson at C, Barkley and Malone at PF, Pippen and Mullin at SF with MJ, Drexler and Stockton in the backcourt all in their prime. They also had Bird playing in his final games before retiring and Magic who unfortunately had retired due to HIV but he still had something left in the tank. Laettner rounded out the team coming off his senior season at Duke.

    Those main 9 guys in their prime would beat any team including the much heralded redeem teams in 2008 and 2012. What they lacked in 3pt shooting they more than made up in virtually every other facet of the game. Good luck trying to score on a team with a lineup of MJ-Drexler-Pippen-Malone and either Center.

  174. ptmilo: you should be eating the best food at the best prices. i’ve been saying this…

    bookmarked, he does it AGAIN

  175. ptmilo: palm pilots

    All your post is hilarious, but man i selected this bit because you brought back a lot of good memories. The Palm Pilot is like the grandfather of the smartphones. I’m probably ancient, because i’m from that era. :D

  176. “i used to have a system that would predict the overnight yuan fix based on a series of variables printed in fred hickey’s high tech strategist.”

    that is some funny ass shit right there…

  177. cybersoze: All your post is hilarious, but man i selected this bit because you brought back a lot of good memories. The Palm Pilot is like the grandfather of the smartphones. I’m probably ancient, because i’m from that era. :D

    cyber…are you feeling good about your chances in the knockout stage?

  178. “i used to have a system that would predict the overnight yuan fix based on a series of variables printed in fred hickey’s high tech strategist.”

    My ROI on KB went up today

  179. pepper: cyber…are you feeling good about your chances in the knockout stage?

    It was a hard fought battle today. I don’t know if you saw the brits on twitter following the game to know which team will play against them. The timeline it’s hilarious, at some point during the 90 minutes they had all of the four teams as the opponent. In the end they got Germany. Good luck to them. ;)
    I think we have nice chances, Belgium is a very tough opponent, but we just played Germany and France, we’re ready. And i think our team is tailor made for knockout stage because if the game isn’t on the line, they relax too much, but when the game matter the team is always focused and giving their 100%.

  180. ptmilo: i used to have a system that would predict the overnight yuan fix based on a series of variables printed in fred hickey’s high tech strategist.

    Backfilled?

  181. The Dream Team had Ewing and Robinson at C, Barkley and Malone at PF, Pippen and Mullin at SF with MJ, Drexler and Stockton in the backcourt all in their prime. They also had Bird playing in his final games before retiring and Magic who unfortunately had retired due to HIV but he still had something left in the tank. Laettner rounded out the team coming off his senior season at Duke.

    But most of those guys got hurt early on in the process. The Dream Team was really just Jordan, Pippen, Barkley, and the two centers. Still an incredible collection of historic talent, but that summer, not at their best.

  182. My memory of the Dream Team appears to be flawed.

    I can feel the Bobby Portis game happening. If Kevin Huerter can have one so can Bobby.

  183. cybersoze: It was a hard fought battle today. I don’t know if you saw the brits on twitter following the game to know which team will play against them. The timeline it’s hilarious, at some point during the 90 minutes they had all of the four teams as the opponent. In the end they got Germany. Good luck to them. ;)
    I think we have nice chances, Belgium is a very tough opponent, but we just played Germany and France, we’re ready. And i think our team is tailor made for knockout stage because if the game isn’t on the line, they relax too much, but when the game matter the team is always focused and giving their 100%.

    yeah…the english announcers were pumped as they thought they were getting Hungary and then they end up with Germany…too bad…

    you are going to need more offense than just rinaldo…

  184. How does Gallo shoot accurately with his eyes crossed like that?

    Guy looks like Keanu Reeves.

  185. i don’t think that’s terrible… trae doesn’t like isolations and so it gets them away from that spread pnr which they always love running which is really where he’s at his most dangerous… and if they run it it’s going to be involve stronger defenders… worth a look at least…

  186. i don’t think that’s terrible… trae doesn’t like isolations and so it gets them away from that spread pnr which they always love running which is really where he’s at his most dangerous…

    yeah but they just run pnr anyway and teague either bizarrely goes under despite drop coverage or he manages to trail so far behind going over he literally falls out of the picture…it’s not good

  187. Of course we all seem to forget that Teague has as many All-Star appearances as Young

  188. i think going under screens are just fine against trae sometimes…he isn’t a great 3pt shooter cause he shoots so deep and so often… you almost want to goad him into those kind of shots… where he’s dangerous is coming off screens and he’s approaching the foul line area and it’s basically 2 vs 1…

    against singular forces you should give different looks because even small adjustments can work for a short period either due to randomness… ego… or it’s just something they’re not used to… george hill did real well vs trae for game 6 and 7 because he wouldn’t get caught in those foul bait situations… which is basically half the story with him… and he’s basically the 4th best option if you had to choose to guard him….

    if you’re giving teague minutes with trae on the floor it’s worth a look anyway….

  189. They better give Trae an assist for that alley to Collins that was nice.

    Hawks-Suns would be pretty crazy

  190. Also Gallo put PJ Tucker in the blender, I didn’t know he could still move like that

  191. Yeah, those Bucks, what an affront to the aesthetics of the game. Turn off your sets now.

  192. I don’t know how Trae drew that foul but that was one hell of a 15 ft floater w/contact.

  193. Anyone who thinks the current gap between Trae Young and Luka Doncic is some kind of gaping chasm better check another part of the dispensary menu.

  194. By the way… we all agree now that the Hawks are legitimately good right?

  195. What a great game. Getting major Iverson vibe right now on that Sixers Finals run from Trae. I think Solomon Hill was actually on that Sixers team.

  196. Z-man: Anyone who thinks the current gap between Trae Young and Luka Doncic is some kind of gaping chasm better check another part of the dispensary menu.

    Something tells me the Hawks wouldn’t have had an easy time against a full-strength Clippers team. And Doncic was phenomenal in that series. Not his fault that his teammates couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean or keep Kawhi from doing anything he wanted at all times.

  197. The Honorable Cock Jowles: Something tells me the Hawks wouldn’t have had an easy time against a full-strength Clippers team. And Doncic was phenomenal in that series. Not his fault that his teammates couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean or keep Kawhi from doing anything he wanted at all times.

    Probably ego…

  198. Wow, passing to Giannis under the rim, down 3. And of course, he hits both FTs.

    This game needs to go to overtime.

    I’d rather see some hacking and clock management, personally.

  199. And they found Young on the inbound to get the ball in his hands to be fouled.

  200. These playoffs have been so much more enjoyable than any recent year I can remember. Lots of great games, clutch performances, surprise teams…. Really good.

  201. Meanwhile, ptmilo, that was the best laugh I’ve had in a while. Merci.

  202. wow they gave him too good a shot. what an incredible game. and no two hour final minute.

  203. middleton missed holiday wide open in the corner…. and fitting too since he basically cost them the game anyway….

  204. Middleton did not miss a “wide open”
    Holiday in the “corner.”

    1. Holiday was above the break when Middleton went up for the shot.
    2. Trae was in good guarding position between Middleton and Holiday.

    Middleton could have lofted a pass to lead Holiday into the corner. It is not clear that Holiday could have gathered and shot before the next defender arrived.

  205. Marv Albert (who was the voice of the Knicks of my childhood) has been really bad in these playoffs. Just tonight, he called a couple of two point shots as threes and gave the wrong point total for a couple of times.

    It is really hard to do play-by-play. Marv used to make it look easy. He is no longer up to the task.

  206. Thankfully TNT has a bunch of very good pbp guys to take over. Kevin Harlan, Ian Eagle and Brian Anderson are all really good. They’re color analysts are lacking but with Webber gone it helps. Jimmy Jackson, Grant Hill and Greg Anthony do a decent job, much better than Webber and Reggie Miller who unfortunately looks like is the #1 color analyst for TNT.

  207. Fun fact, Hawks first team to win 3 Game 1s in a row on the road since the 1999 Knicks.

  208. Middleton did not miss a “wide open”
    Holiday in the “corner.”

    i would disagree.. the replay shows that trae stepped up towards middleton and then holiday was in the corner with a good amount of space with trae’s back towards him.. he needed to hit a window both in time and space for the pass but that’s not usually a hard pass to make under normal circumstances.. esp in a give n go off an inbounds like you sometimes see if that were drawn up… maybe it wasn’t super duper wide open… but it would’ve been too late for a decent contest esp coming from trae…

    in any case… middleton’s shot wasn’t super terrible either after looking at it again but i thought there was a better one available imo…

  209. ephus:
    Marv Albert (who was the voice of the Knicks of my childhood) has been really bad in these playoffs.Just tonight, he called a couple of two point shots as threes and gave the wrong point total for a couple of times.

    It is really hard to do play-by-play.Marv used to make it look easy.He is no longer up to the task.

    He’s 80.

  210. ***Donnie, with all due respect, there’s no way in hell this team would win against the Dream Team. Clearly you don’t remember the Dream Team.***

    I don’t know. Nobody does (except maybe ptmilo, who knows a all). But I was post-pubescent in both 1992 and 2021, and I believe today’s best players are better than yesterday’s best players on the whole. The 90s teams wouldn’t even know what to do against these 30 foot shooting guards and the 7’ skinny Jordan guy that can score 50 against the best defensive team even with the 2021 equivalent of Mike Iuzzolino as his #2 option.

  211. Yeah, it’s not a question of the talent on the respective teams, just that the style of play is so different nowadays. The best example would be Lebron James, who literally has the same measurements as Karl Malone and yet, well, you know, is not remotely like Karl Malone (except that he can also do the stuff Karl Malone did, to boot!). The Dream Team clearly had the more talented players, but it’s a question of whether they could adapt to the modern game right away. Now, give them time to adjust, and I think the Dream Team would be fine. Ewing would be shooting threes, Jordan would be taking 12 threes a game, etc.

    But if they were just dropped into a matchup right this second? The modern players would have a big advantage. The Dream Team could still pull it out, of course, but the modern team would have a major advantage.

  212. For me KD and Dame could have been selected for the Dream Team but it’s really difficult to compare players from different eras, the game is too different and the context is too different (nutrition, medicine and so on…).

    1992 was a publicity stunt born from the shame of 1988, but if you take that roster not in 1992 (when some of them are old and cranky) but at peak value, good luck 2021.

    More important, which set of rules do we use in this Dream Game?

    Because with 1992 rules (hand check allowed, no zone defense, brawls permitted) the Dream Team will simply kill, literally not figuratively, the 2021 team.

    Malone would break Durant in two during a box out, Stockton would poke Lavine in the eyes and spit on his face to give him Covid, while Jordan will order Tatum and Beal to bed without dinner just staring them in the eyes… it’s hard to take a 30-footer on a stretcher and I don’t want to think what Barkley would do to Middleton… :-)

    With 2021 rules things can be different.

    Edit: I agree Brian, if we “catapult” the Dream Team in today’s game with no preparation, the modern team is the hands down favorite.

  213. Only watched the 1st half, but the Hawks, man, they’re probably giving Hubert nightmares over his bet. :D

  214. Guys, the dream team had only 2 players above 30 (Magic and Bird), and i respect opinions on the contrary but i’d take the 92 Dream Team every single day. That’s it.
    I’ll leave this challenge for the KD-Dame-lead team… (in the Olympic tournament) “The team was again undefeated, with their closest outing being the 32-point victory over Croatia for the gold medal.”

  215. And the Dream Team blackballed Isiah who in his prime was better than Stockton as in, it wasn’t even close.

  216. pepper: you are going to need more offense than just Ronaldo…

    We have a “Thibs-like” stubborn coach, can you imagine we have the 4th best european striker (only behind Lewandovski, Messi and Ronaldo, and ahead of Haaland)? And as Ronaldo is much more a forward than a striker, and Portugal historically lack good strikers, he should be playing… but the coach leaves him on the bench!? We’ll see, but when we’ll be in need at least he has that option (Andre Silva).

  217. The Infamous Cdiggy: By the way… we all agree now that the Hawks are legitimately good right?

    I agree, this really feels like the 99 Knicks run, and now i know it’s so much fun to watch even if they’re not your favorite team.

  218. Owen: What a great game. Getting major Iverson vibe right now on that Sixers Finals run from Trae. I think Solomon Hill was actually on that Sixers team.

    Whaaat?? Is that right? Wasn’t that final like two generations ago? :D

  219. Today’s rules strongly favor today’s players. The 1992 rules would favor those players.

  220. Guys, the dream team had only 2 players above 30 (Magic and Bird), and i respect opinions on the contrary but i’d take the 92 Dream Team every single day. That’s it.

    Stockton broke his leg. Bird’s back gave out again. Drexler had to have his right knee drained. Magic strained his knee playing against Croatia. Etc. They were the walking wounded.

    Again, other than Jordan, Pippen, and Barkley, very few of those guys were at their best that summer, even if they were technically in their primes. But those three are really all we needed back then to destroy the likes of Angola. So if we’re talking about plucking the Dream Team away from Barcelona in July of 92, I’d give this current roster a good chance.

  221. Alan: Stockton broke his leg. Bird’s back gave out again. Drexler had to have his right knee drained. Magic strained his knee playing against Croatia. Etc. They were the walking wounded.
    Again, other than Jordan, Pippen, and Barkley, very few of those guys were at their best that summer, even if they were technically in their primes. But those three are really all we needed back then to destroy the likes of Angola. So if we’re talking about plucking the Dream Team away from Barcelona in July of 92, I’d give this current roster a good chance.

    Well, wait, i’m comparing rosters. This guys haven’t played yet. Anyone can get hurt, or catch covid. You should compare the guys selected to go and say which team would win. I’m taking the 92 Dream Team. Jordan with today’s rules? There was only one way to stop Jordan and today’s rules don’t allow it.

  222. In other news, there’s something about our new “mistery man” (maybe Frank can go, we have a new mistery PG coming from europe to adopt! LOL) …
    Knicks: Luca Vildoza to be tested vs Team USA in Las Vegas camp

    Two takeaways if you don’t have time to read it:
    – Next month Argentina will play an exhibition game against the US, in Las Vegas (July 13); It’ll be the first time to take a look at him;
    – He’s been working out with the Knicks for a month now, and was joined by 3 Knicks players in this final week before leaving for LV;

  223. The rules and the bookkeeping were the same back then but the norm was different in that the game wasn’t played to squeeze out every last ounce of efficiency from it. Those completely different norms make it almost impossible to really get much out of these “what if” scenarios.(*) If you don’t think a bunch of Dreamers could have shot the 3 at modern levels if the norm had been to develop that to the modern degree, you’re badly misguided. If Brook Lopez could do it ….

    I’d rather have the ball in Jordan’s hands for big possessions than KD’s and without question LBJ’s — that much is crystal clear. (And right behind Jordan would be Kobe.) Bird was probably the best pure outside shooter of that group; I can certainly get behind the idea of KD as a better pure outside shooter and Curry unquestionably is. (Curry’s the best pure shooter in NBA history.) Ben Simmons is probably the closest modern guy to the Magic prototype of the freakishly tall point guard with elite court vision; Ben’s a better defender but overall, Magic was way better.

    (*) And the applicability of that to today’s analytics is that the time series of TS%s is distorted and loses a lot of meaning. Today’s guys consciously target TS%, Dreamer era guys did not.

  224. That Trae-Colllins off the backboard alley-oop has to be one of the best YOLO plays in a big spot I’ve ever seen. It really is a miracle that we won a game against Atlanta and easily could’ve been up 2-0 in that series.

  225. It is so hard not to root for Atlanta right now. They better do right by McMillan and give him a long term extension. I have immensely enjoyed watching the rise of Trae Young and Luka this season. Remember when folks were calling Trae a Steph knock off? LOL! He’s not better than Steph, but he’s definitely a different breed. His command of that offense is uncanny. I think this kid becomes a serious MVP candidate if he can improve his defense just a little bit. But right now, he carries so much of a load offensively, he couldn’t be bothered to try on that end lol. I wanna see what this team looks like with a 2 way 2nd option in that starting 5. What if they could get their hands on a guy like Siakam- who is miscast as a #1? Say they offered Collins in a s&t, Hunter or Reddish and 1 or 2 firsts and Toronto says yes. Atlanta would be a monster with their current trajectory.

    I would never expect something like that to happen tho lol

  226. Yeah good luck stopping Jordan without hand checking, or triple teaming him with today’s shooters waiting in the corners.

  227. We lost to the full strength Hawks, with DeAndre Hunter. The Sixers and the Bucks are losing to them despite his absence. We have nothing to be ashamed of.

  228. Sorry, Cyber. I tend to get needlessly pedantic whenever anyone proposes a “could Roster X defeat the Dream Team?” hypothetical. Because the Dream Team as we think of it existed on paper more than it did in reality. But Jordan, Pippen, Barkley, Malone, and Ewing by themselves would be a tough out on a lot of modern rosters.

  229. Alan: Because the Dream Team as we think of it existed on paper more than it did in reality.

    I agree. And the challenge i listed above for the 2020 USA Olympic team (is it 2020 or 2021?) is unfair. International teams has gotten a lot stronger since then, and the 1992 Olympic Games had one circumstance that propelled the Dream Team to further dominate as it was the first olympics after the dismemberment of the USSR and Yugoslavia.

  230. Z-man:
    Anyone who thinks the current gap between Trae Young and Luka Doncic is some kind of gaping chasm better check another part of the dispensary menu.

    I’m not sure why anyone ever thought there was a huge gap to begin with other than Luka got way more hype.

    They have different strengths and weaknesses on offense but it nets out pretty close.

    Luka gets more rebounds, but a lot of them are strategic/role related and not actually adding much value. The big men on the team sometimes defer defensive rebounds to him so he gets the ball in his hands sooner and can start the break.

    Defensively they are both a negative now, but long term if Doncic ever gets into shape I’d have to think he can eventually become a pretty good defender. I don’t think Trae will ever defend well. Trae is worse now.

    Another difference is that it seems to me that Trae made a huge leap this year in understanding when to shoot, when to move the ball, when to make a really tough pass etc.. There’s still room for improvement, but he’s playing smarter. After he had that little dust up with John Collins and Nate McMillan took over, he moved to the next level. Nate McMillan deserves a TON of credit for the job he’s doing there.

    I’m harsh on Doncic because I think he has other worldly potential, but he hasn’t made that intellectual leap yet. When I watch Doncic play I go back and forth between utter amazement and shaking my head at some of the asinine shots he took or passes he made.

    Long term I still like Doncic because of his size, but he’ll eventually have to improve his decision making.

  231. Yeah Bird and Magic were definitely nearing the end of their primes when the 92 team was assembled. Bird especially. Drexler was also on the downward slope of his career.

    But Jordan and Pippen, Barkley and Malone, Stockton, David Robinson, Mullin and Ewing were all at their peak and Magic was still a VERY good PG. I think its still fair to say the 92 Dream Team was the best dream team ever but of course they played much easier competition for sure.

  232. I think mentally Trae has the edge right now as far as desire/drive. Luka seems kind of content to be at the level he’s at right now. Maybe a new coach will help. But I think Trae is partly driven by being smaller and also because he’s kind of hated by opposing teams fans and its been that way since college, so he kind of has this drive/edge to prove people wrong and show up the opposing team’s fans. I hate the dude but he has absolutely beasted out in these playoffs and I feel far better about losing to them in 5 games now.

  233. cybersoze: I agree, this really feels like the 99 Knicks run, and now i know it’s so much fun to watch even if they’re not your favorite team.

    Agree on Hawks. And how crazy would that be if we lost to the eventual NBA Champs.

  234. I’m slow on this because I never really looked that deep into Trae Young until this season, but all these comparisons between Steph and Trae are SO unwarranted. Steph is a consistent 50/40/90 guy on high volume- something Trae will NEVER be. Trae has the 3 ball in him and hits big shots, but he’s just a solid shooter with unlimited range, in comparison to Steph. Trae is an excellent player but I don’t think anyone fears a career 35% 3 point shooter. I think teams fear his ballhandling and craftiness coupled with his willingness to take and make big shots off script. Trae is just a great PG in this league who has the ability to score at a high clip just as well as he can run that offense- which is more scary than his percentage from deep.I wouldn’t leave him open tho lol

  235. Bo Burnham could give some nice insights as to how the internet do what the internet do but one of the things it does is create sacred cows and Luka Doncic is a textbook KB sacred cow. At this point, you couldn’t fit a razor blade between him and Trae Young.

    Strat has some misses but he also has some dead-on hits and his observations about the modern smallball, spread, high usage game generating a lot of fluff assists and rebounds are dead-on.

  236. It’s funny, the other day people were trying to use Philly’s limited success as proof against asset-accumulation rebuilding. Um, how about the Hawks? They did a Process, too, just without the marketing fanfare. It’s nice to be able to have two of your top-10 lottery picks be out and still be up 1-0 in the conference finals bc you tanked to get Trae Young and have help from all those extra firsts you picked up like Kevin Huerter and John Collins, and the free agents like Bogdo and Gallo you were able to sign bc your whole team was on rookie contracts.

  237. Trae is 1:0 on the road in the ecf and he’s been unstoppable against some of the best defenses in the league. Right now I’m not taking anyone over him. Nobody is better right now. Nobody. He’s #1.

  238. All I know is that under today’s rules the way the Knicks defended Jordan would result in a season record number of FTs over a 7 game series, except every Knick would have fouled out by halftime.

    I literally have no idea if or how a team using modern foul rules doesn’t send Jordan to the line 50 times a game or allows Jordan to dunk the ball every possession.

  239. If the unicorn didn’t shot the bed in that series, then this might be a different conversation regarding Luka and Trae. Unfortunately, unicorn shit the bed.

    Trae has better teammates right now and that is helping him a lot. I’d still take Luka over Trae, but as I said before I’m happy to pick up a 1st to get Trae in that deal.

    Also, Trae has gone up against 3 of the best defenders in the league between Thybulle, Holliday, and Simmons. Unbelievable the level of competition he’s making look silly right now.

  240. despite popular belief… trae wasn’t all that great against the sixers…. they had a ortg of 107.9 in 7 games vs the sixers regular season drtg of 107.6…. trae had a ts% of 53.89% and a 3pt% of 32.3% with a 2pt% of 43.75%…

    he certainly had some stupendous games… but that kind of paper overs some real stinkers he had despite some shiny volume stats…. the sixers defended them well overall….. and they had multiple huge leads to close out the series.. the series was won off the backs of multiple really timely and clutch 3pt shooting from unlikely sources from the hawks.. coupled with really untimely poor offensive performances from embiid and the rest of the sixers… trae was a factor of course but they actually went away from him to kevin huerter of all people since he wasn’t doing much in game 7…

    if you’re going to ordain trae… you should include that in the narrative…. the sixers basically stopped trae and the hawks offense… it just they couldn’t help but trip over themselves in the process and lose multiple opportunities to close out the series…

  241. “Pacers re-hired Rick Carlisle. Time is a flat circle.”

    Just wait until we re-sign Tim Hardaway Jr this off-season.

  242. #Hot Nostalgic Take Alert#
    Dream Team had only 10 of the 50 best players of all time.
    Most 2021 team usa players would bring the waters and the gatorades in the timeouts back in 92.
    Only KD and Dame could get some minutes.

  243. DJ, pointing out a few not so great games from him against Philly means very little to me.

    He was amazing against The Knicks. He was good against Philly (some good, some not so good) and they won that series. He had a great game one against The Bucks. Overall, he’s been the leader of the team and they are in the ECF. He’s probably been the best player overall of the entire playoffs when you consider that they’re still in the playoffs.

  244. It’s pretty wild that 3 of the top 10 picks in the 2018 NBA draft are starting in the conference finals three years later. I don’t think there is much precedent for that, but it does show that ”The Process” doesn’t have to be a long process.

    The top-10 picks have combined to play 1600 minutes in the playoffs this year (and will be 2000+ once the playoffs are wrapped up).

  245. Alan: Pacers re-hired Rick Carlisle. Time is a flat circle.

    Indeed. Maybe Kyrie meant to say “time” instead of “earth”. LOL

  246. DJ, pointing out a few not so great games from him against Philly means very little to me.

    i didn’t point out a few games… that’s how he performed against philly for the entire series…

    He was good against Philly

    you kind of have it backwards… he was good for about a few games but he wasn’t good against philly as a whole…

  247. Trae is not better than Luka. Not during this playoffs and not ever, come on people.

    Looking at just this playoffs (if we look at careers it’s not even close) Luka posted an 11.2 BPM this playoffs, 46 points per 100 possessions on .587 TS%, 11.5 bounds, 12.4 assists, and 1.7 steals and played (slightly) better defense while playing with categorically worse teammates and shouldering a higher usage.

    Trae, meanwhile, posted an 8.5 BPM, scored 39 per 100 on the same TS%, with 4 rebounds, the same number of assists and steals, and worse defense. And he’s doing this with a way better supporting cast. Trae is showing that he’s a top 15 player in the league right now. But there is still a gap (not a chasm, a gap) between him and Luka Doncic a top 5 player in the nba.

  248. If I’m betting who wins more MVP’s and championships, Luka or Trae, I’m going all in with Luka. Trae has been incredibly impressive in the playoffs, and unfortunately Luka had KP as his wingman. But Luka’s ability to post up and play physically against opposing defenders is a huge asset (although he definitely needs to improve his FT shooting) and Trae is so small and fragile I worry about his health long term if defenders start smacking him around.

    This is no knock on Trae, but Luka may end up being the #1 player in the NBA for years to come.

  249. Discussions between Sixers and Simmons reps going on but no trade request “yet.” Divorce coming.

  250. Part of Luka’s job is to function well with KP and help KP perform well, and Luka hasn’t done that very well. The conclusion appears to be that that’s all KP’s fault. Maybe it is. I’m not convinced. Luka’s got some diva to him.

  251. He’s probably been the best player overall of the entire playoffs when you consider that they’re still in the playoffs.

    Trae has a long way to go to be as good as kevin durant was in the playoffs. Luka was probably the 2nd best player, albeit in fewer games.

    Young, Booker, and Mitchell have all arrived and are all right behind them. They’re having more great moments but the total body of work has to be considered. KD & Luka on a per game or per minute basis have been the best.

  252. 5:43 left in the 3rd quarter. Janis is isolating against Trae at the top of the key. The little guy takes a 250lbs bump and somehow is still able to stand his ground, forcing the big man into an awkward step back, which he misses. Anecdotal? Yeah, of course. But more importantly that’s spectacular leadership.

  253. Early Bird:
    “Pacers re-hired Rick Carlisle. Time is a flat circle.”

    Just wait until we re-sign Tim Hardaway Jr this off-season.

    Heck, if that happens, I might start believing that the Earth is a flat circle, too.

  254. Then 2:35 left in the same quarter. He shakes away Holiday and gets himself standing allllllllll allllllllone for forrrrrevvvvvver at the 3 point line, waiting for a defender to run at him before hitting the 3.

    You can take Luka all you want. In this playoffs right now it’s Trae and everyone else.

  255. If we’re comparing playoff numbers from this year, it’s worth pointing out Trae has gone against the #2 & #3 defenses in the league so far. And despite underwhelming rate stats against Philly, I think Simmons and Thybulle are better defenders at this point than anyone the Clippers can throw at Luka (all due respect to the aging Kawhi).

    On the flipside, I’d say the Clippers are a better team than anyone the Hawks have played this playoffs. Losing in the 1st round of the west isn’t really a knock on Luka. At least by SRS, the Clippers are better than every team in the east.

  256. Luka Doncic is better than Trae Young and will likely always be. That said, winners don’t say sorry, and the Hawks are doing all of this without Cam Reddish, DeAndre Hunter, and Okongwu being major contributors to this team. The problem with Dallas is they traded 3 1RPs total to land Doncic and Hardaway Jr, and that’s just not a good enough 1-2 punch. They don’t have cap flexibility because they signed Porzingis to a max and with no draft assets, they’re stuck.

    In short, Atlanta had a better plan than Dallas, and they almost screwed that up by hiring Lloyd Pierce.

  257. You only have to win 4 games in a series, so if you’re only good in a few games, that’s a pretty significant contribution to your team winning the series, no?

    I mean, if a series goes 7 games and X all star plays well in the 4 games they win and poorly in the 3 games they lose and they win the series, then the narrative is that he played well.

    STATS ARE MEANINGLESS IN THE PLAYOFFS IF YOU WIN AND ADVANCE.

  258. STATS ARE MEANINGLESS IN THE PLAYOFFS IF YOU WIN AND ADVANCE.

    is this another way of saying that stats are meaningful for the sixers… but not the hawks?

    didn’t they play against each other? are these like the statistics version of shrodinger’s cat?

    or are you saying that stats exist but the only thing that matters are narratives in the playoffs?

    so nobody misunderstands can you please clarify… because maybe i’m stupid but this doesn’t make any sense…

  259. I am a huge Trae fan and always have been. That said, trying to argue he’s even close to Luka’s level is the most typical flavor of the moment garbage hot take imaginable.

    The problem is the people making the argument have outright said they are not swayed by objective facts, so god bless everyone trying to reason with them but they have quite literally said they will not be reasoned with.

  260. Anyone still thinking Atlanta is mediocre? If they are mediocre, they would definitely take the gold in the Mediocre Olympics.

    Atlanta’s trade for Trae Young is looking a lot less one sided than it has appeared even up to a few weeks ago.

  261. STATS ARE MEANINGLESS IN THE PLAYOFFS IF YOU WIN AND ADVANCE.

    Dude. If a few shots rim out in game 7 (or maybe if Ben Simmons takes an open dunk), the Sixers advance and the Hawks go home.

    Would this radically alter your opinion on how Trae played during that series?

  262. In short, Atlanta had a better plan than Dallas, and they almost screwed that up by hiring Lloyd Pierce.

    Atlanta absolutely had a better plan than Dallas.

    But they should have taken Luka. Would anyone not want to replace Trae and Reddish with Luka on this team right now?

    As an eastern conference opponent, thank god we don’t have to deal with that.

  263. And despite underwhelming rate stats against Philly, I think Simmons and Thybulle are better defenders at this point than anyone the Clippers can throw at Luka (all due respect to the aging Kawhi).

    Part of this is a credit to Luka though, right? There are a lot fewer guys in the league who are good matchups to throw at him than there are guys for Trae because he’s too big and strong for a lot of guys who would typically be the matchup for primary ball handlers (e.g. Pat Beverley), but he’s too advanced on the ball for a lot of guys that take bigger matchups. I mean if none of Pat Bev, Paul George, Kawhi or Marcus Morris are good defensive options against you, then there just aren’t a lot of good options that exist.

  264. Luka and Trae are both amazing – there, I just saved 400 more posts.

    Have we had any thoughts on the draft?

    Or how to approach FA?

    Honestly – I wonder if it’d be possible to trade one of the 1st rounders for a top 20 protected 2022 or 2023 first rounder + a 2nd or something. There’s no way we are bringing 3 rookies into camp, so may as well defer the picks as much as possible.

    I’d be all for drafting one of these guys, who seem on mock draft boards to be available in our range:
    – Chris Duarte
    – Trey Murphy
    – Jaden Springer
    – Tre mann
    – JT Thor

    Jared Butler would be interesting – as far as I can tell, he’s been playing with a pacemaker all along. Not sure why they flagged it now. But perhaps he’d fall because of it, and could be a good value pick for a team with multiple picks (ie. us).

  265. CBS’ latest mock draft has us taking Isaiah Jackson at 19 and Tre Mann (whom Macri wrote glowingly about in today’s newsletter) at 21, with Cameron Thomas sandwiched in between and Cooper, Garuba, Butler, and some other good prospects still on the board.

  266. some numbers from the nba combine

    https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine/

    notables:

    1)Keon Johnson with a 48 inch max vertical leap.. combine record… Jaden Springer with 41.5 (altho i think his issue is that he’s a two foot jumper).. Ayo Dosunmu 39…

    2)the long bois – Moses Moody with a 7ft 0.75in wingspan… Ayo Dosunmu 6’10.25″ (sorry not sorry yes i’m shamelessly plugging him) Scottie Barnes 7’2.75″…. Neemias Queta 7’4.0″… Charles Bassey 7’3.0″…

    3)(somewhat)disappointments – height w/o shoes.. Keon Johnson 6’3.5″… Jaden Springer 6’3″… Davion Mitchell 6’0″…

  267. Not really because no one expected Atlanta to take that series to 7 games anyways, let alone win it.

    If a few shots rimmed out. Yeah and if only Hibbert hadn’t blocked Melo or JR elbowed Terry, am I right?

    Atlanta won, Philly didn’t. Its quite simple. Saying “but only” doesn’t really matter cause we don’t live in that alternate universe, we live in this one.

  268. thenoblefacehumper:
    I am a huge Trae fan and always have been. That said, trying to argue he’s even close to Luka’s level is the most typical flavor of the moment garbage hot take imaginable.

    The problem is the people making the argument have outright said they are not swayed by objective facts, so god bless everyone trying to reason with them but they have quite literally said they will not be reasoned with.

    Right, but these sports analytics things and the whole enterprise really always boil down to, “I know and care about objective facts than you do” and that’s a claim that has nothing to do with sports. Sports aren’t there to serve as a vehicle for people to posture about how much they care about “objective facts” and it’s unfortunate that they’re both seen that way and that they’ve been hijacked by that element. To a not-insignificant degree that impulse has served as an entry point to sports for people who would otherwise not really care about sports at all. (That last sentence doesn’t include any of the people here.)

    And of course that doesn’t even get to the reality that the so-called “objective facts” are almost always anything but.

    TNFH — serious question. Are there any pro athletes, basketball players or otherwise, that you just simply *like*, irrespective of where they stand in the “value” pecking order based on the data their games throw off? Have you ever had that experience?

  269. Macri’s newsletter was good, but I think he was too dismissive of concerns about Mann’s finishing ability. 59% at the rim isn’t awful, but when you consider he’s not much of a drive-and-kick threat either the whole package starts to look a little underwhelming. He’s not a bad prospect but there will be better options available.

    Alan I’m not sure what you’re seeing, but this CBS mock has Jalen Johnson falling to us at 19 (which would be great for us, fit be damned) and Greg Brown at 21 (hard, hard no from me).

    An idea I like that the Knicks will never consider: if the two BPAs at 19 and 21 are both PGs/PG-ish, and this seems somewhat likely based on mocks, just take them both! The likelihood that both players we select in the first round will stick is relatively small, and a lot of these guys could probably play productively together anyway. I definitely wouldn’t be disappointed if we came away with two of Dosunmu/Butler/Springer. Cooper might have a few too many red flags for me, though he’s definitely intriguing too.

  270. TNFH — serious question. Are there any pro athletes, basketball players or otherwise, that you just simply *like*, irrespective of where they stand in the “value” pecking order based on the data their games throw off? Have you ever had that experience?

    Yeah, tons. Gary Sanchez is finally rewarding me for sticking with him through some of the most empirically rough patches I’ve ever seen from a full-time player in any sport, just to give one example. I love that guy.

    I also don’t let this kind of thing affect my answers to questions regarding a player’s ability to influence the outcome of games vis-a-vis others. You’re free to prefer Trae to Luka aesthetically, or as a person, or whatever. If you extend that into an argument that he’s a better basketball player though…I mean, you’re just wrong.

    The funny thing is I’m not even a huge believer in AIO box score metrics and think fit, etc. can have a large effect on production. I was saying years ago that these metrics woefully undersold Devin Booker.

    But to try to argue that Trae is better than Luka, or that Frank Ntilikina doesn’t suck, you’re just operating on the opposite extreme from the (99% made up) people who decide who the best players are by looking at the BPM leaderboard or whatever. You’re essentially arguing that nothing in the game of basketball is tangible.

  271. Alan I’m not sure what you’re seeing, but this CBS mock has Jalen Johnson falling to us at 19 (which would be great for us, fit be damned) and Greg Brown at 21 (hard, hard no from me).

    No idea what’s happening. I definitely read a CBS mock draft with the picks I mentioned, I clicked on the link and pasted it here, only it’s a link for a different article. Based on what I know about crappy modern media site design, my guess is I scrolled down into the next article, so that was the URL I copied, but now I can’t find the original mock draft I read. Oh, well. I swear I did not imagine this imaginary exercise in who the Knicks should hypothetically draft.

  272. The heart issues are obviously a red flag but from the admittedly fairly little draft research I’ve done so far it sure looks like Jared Butler would be the best realistic option at 19.

  273. 59% at the rim isn’t awful, but when you consider he’s not much of a drive-and-kick threat either the whole package starts to look a little underwhelming.

    mann’s rim #s start looking a little better when you consider that he got to the rim a staggering 43% of the time… i do think he has a good dribble drive game but that’s obviously in the eye of the beholder… he has a very slight build so he’s going to struggle through contact and that probably has a lot to do with the rim #s… he did just go through a growth spurt so it’s possible he’s adjusting to his new superpowers… suffice to say i like mann a lot…

    butler i have a tough time seeing break the 1st rd… those heart issues are apparently why he had to transfer to baylor … alabama wouldn’t clear him… baylor also had previous experience with managing heart issues with isaiah austin also but he never got drafted because of it… he wound up getting cleared much later and had a decent overseas career…

    that may have positive ramifications for butler but it’s going to be tough for someone to invest guaranteed money with those kind of medical concerns… the Fitness-to-Play board are pretty conservative but it is a major red flag if they are referring players….

  274. butler i have a tough time seeing break the 1st rd… those heart issues are apparently why he had to transfer to baylor … alabama wouldn’t clear him… baylor also had previous experience with managing heart issues with isaiah austin also but he never got drafted because of it… he wound up getting cleared much later and had a decent overseas career…

    To be clear, I have no ability to account for this at all and am going purely off my opinion prior to finding out about it. You’re probably right realistically, and I sure hope this entire situation is handled as carefully as possible.

    Re: Mann, I honestly didn’t know about his rim frequency and that does change some things. It’s still a little disturbing to me that he was so bad as a freshman and I worry he might be a bit of a tweener, but you could do a lot worse at 19/21 than someone who will likely at least stick as a bench shooter.

  275. If they like Green or Mobley enough, perhaps the Pistons would even mull the possibility of shaking up the draft by trading down a spot or two.

    Just when i thought the Cavs wouldn’t be getting the number 1 spot again…

  276. mann’s rim #s start looking a little better when you consider that he got to the rim a staggering 43% of the time…

    actually i read those #s wrong.. 43% was his midrange shooting% which i had next to his rim% numbers.. his actual rim% is at 26.5%… which is ok but not stellar…. and 59% shooting at the rim is probably below what you’d like to see… but he does have a nice in between game to compensate and a nice overall shot profile…. he is a true 3 level scorer which is the main reason i like him…

  277. It’s hard to follow this year’s mock drafts, every time is a new combination of players. It’s probably easier to point out which players were NOT mocked on our picks.

  278. If it’s true that the Knicks are interviewing a lot of players that figure to get drafted well above where they will select it adds some weight to the view they are open to moving up in the draft rather than adding 3 rookies. If the right player is available in the 6-10 range, imo they should definitely move up unless and even better deal is available for a star. We don’t need role players.

  279. It’s usually really hard to project beyond the first 6 or so picks in the draft, but this year seems especially difficult–picks 10-~35 feel so undifferentiated that it could go a ton of different ways on draft night. All I can say for sure is: we should pick Jalen Johnson without blinking if he falls to 19, no matter who else is on the board. I’m also against trading up, though I won’t scream if they end up picking someone I like.

    I’m very down for drafting two guards (or Trey Murphy who I really like and is apparently climbing draft boards) and then picking up one of Bassey/Queta/Sharpe with the #32.

  280. I think I’d roll the dice on Jared Butler at #19 if our medical staff says yes. I also wouldn’t hesitate to draft Ayo, Springer, Mann or Cooper with #21.

  281. Well, it seems as if we’re really only being mocked three big men: Johnson (if he falls), Garuba, and Jackson. Whereas there are around a dozen different PGs and wings I’ve seen mocked to us. This is a situation where I’m glad to have Walt Perrin around. The guy’s not perfect (Dante Exum, among others), but I have more faith in him than most front office draftniks, and it sounds like we have a huge contingent at the combine to do due diligence on every possibility.

  282. thenoblefacehumper:
    I am a huge Trae fan and always have been. That said, trying to argue he’s even close to Luka’s level is the most typical flavor of the moment garbage hot take imaginable.

    The problem is the people making the argument have outright said they are not swayed by objective facts, so god bless everyone trying to reason with them but they have quite literally said they will not be reasoned with.

    I agree that Trae is not as good as Luka. IMO, there’s a good chance the gap will increase over time if Luka finally gets in shape and learns WHEN to shoot the tough ones, when to make to make the tough pass, when to move the ball etc.. However, their offensive stats are very similar both for the year and their careers. The major thing separating them statistically is rebounding, However, imo the rebounds are a partially a mirage in terms of value to the team because many are deferred to him. The Mavs bigs often allow Doncic to get rebounds even though they are in position to get them too. The strategy is for Doncic to have the ball ASAP instead of having to make an outlet pass. It’s the same strategy used with Harden and Westbrook at times. Trae is too small to use the same strategy. The major difference between them now is on defense. Doncic is clearly less bad on defense and has way more upside due to his size

  283. you’re just operating on the opposite extreme from the (99% made up) people who decide who the best players are by looking at the BPM leaderboard or whatever. You’re essentially arguing that nothing in the game of basketball is tangible.

    I don’t think anyone that knows the game really well looks at one number metrics or leaderboards. They may look at some stats, but they are mostly trying to evaluate player skills and trying to create lineups and fits that maximize output at the team level. Those simple boxscore stats were created for fans and sports commentators so they could understand the values better. Most fans and media people don’t have the knowledge required to translate the skill the are seeing on the court, all the Xs and Os etc.. into a good overall evaluation, especially since they aren’t paid to watch every game, take notes, and study the game to that detail.

  284. It’s hard to follow this year’s mock drafts, every time is a new combination of players. It’s probably easier to point out which players were NOT mocked on our picks.

    Yeah, I’m not even going to bother paying attention until draft night, honestly. :) Better to not get my hopes up.

  285. I think we may be better off trying to evaluate prospects in the 6-10 range rather than in the 15-25 range because imo they are either going to trade up or use at least one of the excess 1st round picks in a trade for a star player. It’s a little tricky because we won’t necessarily know all the players that will be available for trade before we draft unless agents are communicating those things privately. But they have to know for the team to take the next step we need a star level scorer. Our best chance for that is moving up or trading picks for player unless they think this draft is so ridiculously deep they like 2 players in that 19-21 range a LOT.

  286. I mean, who are the realistic trade-up targets? #19 and #21 could get you, what, the #10 at best, right? Then you’re looking at people like: Johnson, Bouknight, Moody, Sengun, Wagner, or Davion Mitchell (gulp). I could see Bouknight, Johnson, Sengun, and Wagner working as trade up targets: they have enough upside to their game (besides Wagner, who is just solid) to maybe justify a big swing/trade up. But are any of them better as a value proposition than, say, Ayo Dosunmo + Jaden Springer? Or Sharife Cooper + Chris Duarte? Or…etc.? One thing to think about is whether draft position is overrated in this draft, given the fact that it’s so undifferentiated past the top 6 (Scottie Barnes is my subjective cutoff, along with Johnson though idk about his personal issues or whatever). Whatever gap there is between Wagner, Bouknight, etc. I don’t think it overcomes the value gleaned from two bites at the apple in this draft.

  287. Don’t see how 19 and 21 gets us much higher than about like 10 or so unless some teams really likes Quickley as an add in.

  288. kevin5318:
    Don’t see how 19 and 21 gets us much higher than about like 10 or so unless some teams really likes Quickley as an add in.

    It might be 19, 21, and 32.

  289. Geez. Carlisle must be super pissed at the Mavs.

    I don’t think he has anything to prove at this point, he’s won his title, so I bet he just wants to go to a place where he is pretty confident that they’ll leave him alone and let him do whatever he wants.

  290. Strat I don’t mean to pile on but “we should trade up if there’s a good opportunity to do so” is kind of the draft strategy equivalent of “we should sign a bunch of team-friendly contracts in free agency.” Every draft, like every free agency class, has its particulars. Yes, we should take all good opportunities. The hard part is identifying them.

    For which player(s), specifically, do you think it would be worth packaging some or all of our picks? Let’s say Cade/Suggs/Mobley/Green/Barnes/Kuminga are out of the question. In all likelihood more guys than that are out of the question, but for the sake of argument I’ll let you assume we can package 19, 21, and 32 for anyone else in the draft.

    Also no pressure but this thread specifically prompts one to try to identify whether or not certain free agent contracts are team-friendly and I don’t believe you’ve weighed in. I am genuinely curious as to your takes, because signing precisely these kinds of contracts is basically how you think contenders get built.

  291. They may look at some stats, but they are mostly trying to evaluate player skills and trying to create lineups and fits that maximize output at the team level.

    I know multiple people personally who work in front offices across different sports and I can assure you they look at a lot more than “some stats.”

  292. The mocks are all over the place so there’s really no need to follow them, better wait for draft night and economize brain cells.

    Plus I know our spots are far from the “sure picks” of the draft, but every time I read “high upside but low floor” in the snippets of one of our possible picks (as Vecenie wrote about Jalen Johnson on The Athletic) I can’t help but think KEVIN KNOX and cringe…

    Finally, I hope I’m wrong but I have a difficult time thinking of Thibs coaching a team with three rookies, two sophomores and Vildoza on the roster…

  293. I can’t help but think KEVIN KNOX and cringe…

    even without any kind of trade stuff, is it a sure thing that he’s back on our roster next year?

  294. I’ll be really impressed if the Knicks manage to trade up more than a couple of slots. I mean, if we have a player we like at 16, 17 or 18, OKC or Memphis might be willing to swap; but, after that, the teams that might be willing to swap are probably ones that are more interested in winning now than later, and those teams will probably want to receive players in the deal. Since lots of our players are free agents we don’t have a lot of likely candidates to trade. For those of you suggesting a trade up, which team do you think is willing to move down?

  295. It’s funny that people keep mocking that Jackson kid to the Knicks because he went to Kentucky but not funny when they’re probably right to do so

  296. To be absolutely cold about it, Mitchell Robinson is probably the best player to trade if we want to move up in the draft. We did alright without him this year and probably could do so again if we had to. If we’re willing to do this then maybe something like Robinson and pick 21 to New Orleans for Adams and number 10. New Orleans saves a ton of money because we can take Adams into cap space and they get a reasonable player. We get a much better pick

  297. I keep thinking BJ Boston with the 32 pick is pretty much inevitable, unless we trade that pick

  298. Trading a good player for a worse, much more expensive player to move up 11 spots in the draft would be a very poor idea. the 21 for Adams and the 10 would be what you’d want to offer. Adams didn’t work for the Pelicans and they owe him another 60 million, why would we offer them something good for a contract they probably really want to get rid of?

  299. DRed:
    Trading a good player for a worse, much more expensive player to move up 11 spots in the draft would be a very poor idea.the 21 for Adams and the 10 would be what you’d want to offer.Adams didn’t work for the Pelicans and they owe him another 60 million, why would we offer them something good for a contract they probably really want to get rid of?

    I agree with you except that, according to the trade Machine, Adams has only one year left on his contract, which can’t be $60M dollars worth. My proposed deal wasn’t very good, it’s just the sort of trade I think we would have to make to move up in the draft significantly. I like your deal much better. I’m not sure New Orleans would do it though.

  300. I should also add that taking on a bad contract to move up in the draft is a good idea and one I hadn’t thought of.

  301. Adams was on an expiring deal when he was traded to NO last offseason, but somehow they thought it was a good idea to extend him right away instead of having the year to evaluate the fit. Very smart. LOL
    So maybe the trade machine doesn’t have yet the extension, which is 2/$35M (17M in 21-22 and 18M in 22-23).

  302. JK47: I keep thinking BJ Boston with the 32 pick is pretty much inevitable, unless we trade that pick

    It was way worse when we thought we’d be taking him with one of our 1RPs. At 32th i wouldn’t like it, but wouldn’t be mad either.

  303. That BJ had better be pretty damn good for me to want to take a dude named Boston.

  304. Donnie Walsh: That BJ had better be pretty damn good for me to want to take a dude named Boston.

    LOL!
    Well, if Geo’s idea goes ahead and we sign TJ. We already have RJ, so if we draft BJ we’re only two players away from an All-J team. :D

  305. We’re not the only team with multiple picks. OKC has 6, 16, and 18. Orlando has 5 and 8. Houston has 23 and 24.

    If OKC wanted to move up, wouldn’t they have a leg up on the Knicks? I’m not sure if there are enough opportunities available for multiple teams to move up.

  306. It’s been a long time since I’ve read a strat post that wasn’t immediately identifiable from its use of tautology and other substance-free musings about absolutely nothing at all

    Also, who said that they’d rather have Kobe in the crunch than KD? Donnie? Better check Game 7 in 2009 or 2010 where he shot 6-24 or something horrific like that and got bailed out by his teammates. Also, unrelated to that, is it time to talk about Kobe’s rape accusation yet? I keep waiting for the day and it never comes

  307. And I wonder if it’s a coincidence that the same people underestimating Trae are the ones who underestimated overrated overpaid no-D chucker Devin Booker when PHX maxed him…

  308. Max:

    Finally, I hope I’m wrong but I have a difficult time thinking of Thibs coaching a team with three rookies, two sophomores and Vildoza on the roster…

    I’m not sure he will have as hard of time as we’re imagining. For one, roster construction is not up to him. Two, he did play the rookies this year (you can argue to what extent, but he did). Three, he’s got assistant coaches who’ve shown they can develop players w/talent.

    We still need to build our depth through the draft.

  309. Jason Kidd about to be Mavs head coach….

    How does that guy continue to find head coaching work in the NBA?

    This has disaster written all over it for Dallas.

    It will be nice to see them implode over the years with the hope that Luka looks to bail out of there into MSG.

  310. People on this board were wondering why Kidd took himself out of the running in Portland. If Jason Kidd gets the Dallas job, that is a much better basketball situation than Portland. Luka on a rookie scale deal is a much better foundation than Dame making >$40M.

  311. Woj also reports that Dallas is considering hiring a Nike exec to be GM. It’s their VP of account management.

  312. “Terence Mann goes the distance.”

    Not sure if Breen did that intentionally or not.

    No Payne tough for the Suns. I continue to be impressed by Ayton. Has good touch on his jumper.

    The Boatrocker is making a big impact. Devin Booker is not.

  313. I really wish the Knicks could find and develop a younger taller longer switchable Patrick Beverley to go along with 2-3 all star level scorers. If you have someone that can slow down players like Booker you are going to win a lot of extra games. #nevermind

  314. CP3 should be sharper over the next couple of games. It’s a lot to ask for him to miss that time and then take a major role right out of the box. To me, the Clippers are easily the best team left when 100%, but they are banged up.

  315. I’ve been watching some film of Sharife Cooper and this kid is a dynamic point guard. He looks like a real difference maker and actually reminds me of Trae Young, even though he can’t shoot yet. I would enjoy watching him break down defenses and throw lobs to Mitch for the next 10 years.

  316. Man, the East could be tough next year. Milwaukee, Brooklyn, Philadelphia and Atlanta will all be good. Miami and Boston are unlikely to be pushovers and Indiana should be much better with Carlisle coaching them.

  317. ***Also, who said that they’d rather have Kobe in the crunch than KD? Donnie?***

    I’ve said some silly stuff here recently, but let’s not pin every bad take on me please.

  318. ***”Terrance Mann goes the distance.” Not sure if Breen did that intentionally or not.***

    It would have worked better if there was a player on the Clippers named Moonlight Graham, but a noble attempt all the same. (I didn’t see the game, but was there really no “ease his pain” moment to reference?)

  319. People on this board were wondering why Kidd took himself out of the running in Portland. If Jason Kidd gets the Dallas job, that is a much better basketball situation than Portland. Luka on a rookie scale deal is a much better foundation than Dame making >$40M.

    Well, I think we specifically said, “What job is Kidd turning the Portland job down for, since we all know that Jason Kidd has no ethics and thus would not turn a job down for ethical reasons.” ;)

  320. But how could he know the Dallas job would be available?

    By the way, Indy fans seem really happy to get Carlisle.

  321. I’m sure he heard the same grumblings that The Athletic wrote about.

    And yeah, Indy has to be thrilled about getting Carlisle back. They never should have fired him in the first place.

  322. I always felt that when Jason Kidd is in the building, no matter who else is there, he’s the smartest basketball mind in the room. Maybe this Dallas gig will coincide with a more mature coaching approach this time.

  323. Brian Cronin:
    I’m sure he heard the same grumblings that The Athletic wrote about.

    And yeah, Indy has to be thrilled about getting Carlisle back. They never should have fired him in the first place.

    The Pacers have a nice base to work with too, with Sabonis, Turner, Levert and Brogdon. I predict a quick turnaround.

  324. Some interesting but dispiriting thoughts from Ethan Strauss on why the league is unlikely to fix the endless foul-and-pray conclusions of games:

    Here’s one reason that won’t happen anytime soon. The perverse incentives of Nielsen measurement likely favor the boring, disjointed game ending, since the final rating for a game is based on its per-minute average. Typically, you get the most viewers in the fourth quarter, when the action is tight. So extending the end of a game can help boost its average by holding frame on the moment of peak viewership and drawing it out.

  325. here’s some quotes on some prospects the knicks interviewed at the combine… particularly interesting:

    Bouknight, a Brooklyn native, grew up a Knicks fan.

    “Being from New York, playing basketball growing up in New York, playing at the Garden, it would be a dream come true,” Bouknight said.

    And he made that clear to the Knicks’ top brass during his interview, giving them the motivation to trade up for him.

    “I don’t even know how to explain that feeling. Going to New York would be fun and hit everyone up I grew up with. That would be like an accomplishment for me. I definitely told them I’m from New York. They kind of already knew,” Bouknight said.

    i really detest trading up in this draft… but Bouknight is one that is maaaybe ok… i have him rated #7 … ultimately i’d probably be fine with it depending on the price.. because he does have pretty high upside and he’s an absolute electric scorer…. i’m only hestitant because i think Josh Christopher is almost his equal and it’s looking like he’ll be available with any of our picks… but Bouknight is good in his own right and he’s a native NY’er to boot which is always a plus…

  326. My prediction is the Knicks will make 2 draft picks and will attempt to move up from 19 and 21 to make 2 picks in the top 15 if possible. Or will move one of those picks up as much as possible by attaching a bunch of the second rounders they have.

    I think Rose knows they need to keep adding young cost controlled talent but will concede to Thibs a bit in the sense that he won’t make 3 or 4 picks this draft and will try to give Thibs quality over quantity by drafting 2 very solid prospects.

    I think Villadoza will fit in quicker than we expect. I mean, it didn’t take Pablo that long to acclimate to the NBA. Villadoza is practicing with teammates as we speak and is 27. He is not a typical rookie.

    I predict we will bring back Rose, Bullocks, and Taj for sure. And then I predict we will go bargain hunting for another bench big to replace Noel. And we will go big name free agent hunting in the form of Conley/Lowry and Derozan. Those vets will be given big short term deals (like 2 years). The goal being to immediately upgrade where we need help but add youth as well in the draft who can develop behind the vets.

    I suspect we might include Knox in a trade up as well. Which sucks because my wife just got me one of those dope NBA JAM t-shirts but they were out of the one with RJ and Toppin so she got me the RJ and Knox one.

  327. Also, I wanted to let you all know that my wife and I had another baby. She was born about 3 weeks ago.

    You may all remember the horrible tragedy my wife and I went through last year losing our first born daughter. This pregnancy caught us off guard for sure as we weren’t tryin and it took us forever the first time but I guess once you do it once, the body knows better?

    I had so many worries and anxieties leading up to the birth of this new baby. Would the same horrible thing happen again? Would I be so freaked out that I wouldn’t be able to feel love for her? Would I just constantly be worried about her safety and health?

    But surprisingly its been pretty easy and natural. The birth was super emotional for both of us. And while I’m experiencing the normal anxiety and worry of being a parent, its been manageable. My wife and I bought a house and I think being in a new home and not in the same place where our daughter stopped breathing has made it a lot easier. Our new baby, Margaret, is a doll and it just feels so good to be happy again. I still miss our daughter so much and at times even feel guilty for being happy again. But we are doing well. I wanted you all to know.

  328. Soooo, soooo happy for you, Swift! That’s great news! Congrats!

  329. Swifty, that is the best news I have seen in quite some time. Much love to you, your wife, and baby Margaret.

  330. Congratulations on the new baby! My cousin lost her first child due to SIDS and I know how that took a toll on her. The pain of loss is surely unimaginable in that situation but she has been a wonderful mother and cherishes every moment as I’m sure you will with your baby. I hope for nothing but the best and many years of great times and memories for your family!

  331. The first good news of the offseason. Hooray, swift! I’m not even going to make a joke at your expense! That’s how pure our internet brotherhood runs!

  332. congrats swift… i thought i never wanted to have kids… my wife neither.. and it’s amazing how much that flipped once we met our son… life can be very harsh but can produce a lot of magic.. and we all hope that magic continues for you too….

  333. Well we’ve already received the best news of the offseason. Congrats Swift! Here’s to maybe entering an era in which raising your child as a Knicks fan isn’t a matter of interest to CPS? Hopefully?

    i really detest trading up in this draft… but Bouknight is one that is maaaybe ok… i have him rated #7

    I agree that it would be dumb regardless but if it’s going to happen, Bouk and Giddey would be the two targets I could live with.

    It’s completely insane to me that Christopher is being slept on like this. Dude shot 72% at the rim and profiles as a great shooter. Feels a bit like a KPJ/Melton situation in which stats oriented people are screaming at the top of their lungs, are ignored, and whaddya know numbers turn out to matter.

  334. The Honorable Cock Jowles: Also, unrelated to that, is it time to talk about Kobe’s rape accusation yet? I keep waiting for the day and it never comes

    We’ll probably talk about it around the same time we talk about Derrick Rose’s.

  335. That’s awesome news, congrats Swift! :) May the three of you be blessed with good health, love, laughter and some luck in sports! ;)

  336. Don’t know if you all saw the stat, but the Clippers are the first team ever to get back from a 0-2 deficit 2 series in a row (they trailed the Mavs 0-2 in the first round, and the Jazz in the second round). And yesterday there they were, trailing the Suns 0-2… what will happen this time?

  337. Congratulations, Swift. Uplifting news, and so happy for you and yours. Hope you get some sleep in there!

  338. Congratulations Swift! Fantastic news, best wishes to you, your wife and little Margaret!

  339. I was going to write that Margaret and Willis Reed share a birthday, but I see now that she was born three weeks ago, not today. All the same, congratulations Swift! (And even though she doesn’t share a birthday with Willis, perhaps she at least shares a birthday with BigBlueAL, which is pretty cool too:)

  340. Amazing news Swift, so happy for you, your wife, and Margaret!

    So, are people ready to post their final or near final first round big boards?

    Here’s mine:
    1. Suggs
    2. Mobley
    3. Cunningham
    4. Green
    5. Jalen Johnson
    6. Scottie Barnes
    7. James Bouknight
    8. Alperen Sengun
    9. Franz Wagner
    10. Ayo Dosunmu
    11. Josh Giddey
    12. Jaden Springer
    13. Jonathan Kuminga
    14. Josh Christopher
    15. Keon Johnson
    16. Jared Butler (if healthy)
    17. Tre Mann
    18. Moses Moody
    19. Cam Thomas
    20. Trey Murphy
    21. Sharife Cooper
    22. Day’Ron Sharpe
    23. Neemias Queta
    24. Charles Bassey (these bigs are all approximately equal to me lol)
    25. Bones Hyland
    26. Miles McBride
    27.Roko Prakcin
    28. Isaiah Jackson
    29. Usman Garuba
    30 (here im gonna cheat). Kispert/Kessler Edwards/Aaron Henry/Mckinley Wright

    this list is funny though, because I don’t think there’s much of a gulf between 9 and ~28 here. This draft is so hard to figure out

  341. I wish I could figure out why people like Kuminga so much. He has Cam Reddish written all over him. And I also find it funny that people are like, “Wow, look what the Hawks are doing… and all without Reddish in the lineup!” Like, yeah, that’s a good thing for them.

  342. Silky our boards are pretty similar. I’m trying to have a reasonably informed 60 player ranking for the first time this year. It’s…not easy. This is NOT final, I reserve the right to make changes all the way up to the first Woj tweet:

    1. Jalen Suggs
    2. Jalen Green
    3. Cade Cunningham
    4. Evan Mobley
    5. Scottie Barnes
    6. Josh Giddey
    7. Franz Wagner
    8. Jalen Johnson
    9. Alperen Sengun
    10. Jaden Springer
    11. James Bouknight
    12. Moses Moody
    13. Jared Butler
    14. Jonathan Kuminga
    15. Josh Christopher
    16. Ayo Donsumu
    17. Cam Thomas
    18. Davion Mitchell
    19. Sharife Cooper
    20. Chris Duarte
    21. Keon Johnson
    22. Usman Garuba
    23. Tre Mann
    24. Joel Ayayi
    25. Miles McBride
    26. Isaiah Jackson
    27. Terrence Shannon Jr.
    28. Roko Prkacin
    29. Corey Kispert
    30. Charles Bassey
    31. Aaron Henry
    32. Neemias Queeta
    33. Nah’Shon Hyland
    34. Day’ron Sharpe
    35. DJ Steward
    36. Justin Champagnie
    37. David Johnson
    38. Matthew Hurt
    39. Kessler Edwards
    40. Mckinley Wright
    41. Daishen Nix
    42. Greg Brown
    43. Ziaire Williams
    44. Scottie Lewis
    45. Joe Wieskamp
    46. Jay Huff
    47. Kai Jones
    48. Isaiah Livers
    49. Santi Aldama
    50. JT Thor
    51. Luka Garza
    52. Trey Murphy III
    53. Trendon Watford
    54. Johnny Juzang
    55. Joshua Primo
    56. Max Abmas
    57. Gabriele Procida
    58. Quentin Grimes
    59. DJ Carton
    60. Ariel Hukporti

  343. Mazel tov, Swift & Abundant.

    Moving from the marvelous to the mundane, I have high hopes for a healthy Mitchell Robinson in the coming season.

    Here are four things I hope to see from Mitch on offense to expand his game beyond lobs and offensive rebounds.

    1. Mix in solid screens with the slip screens. He now has the bulk to dish out punishment without moving.
    2. If Mitch gets down court early but it is not a fast break, duck in and seal for an easy low post catch and dunk. Especially do this IF he is cross-matched against a guard.
    3. When Mitch catches above the arc at the top of the key, dribble-handoff to RJ or Randle. Especially do this if the opposing 5 has dropped below the foul line. This should create an open 3.
    4. One-dribble drives when catching the ball at the foul line.

  344. I like the idea of adding any 3 of these:
    19. Sharife Cooper
    20. Chris Duarte
    21. Keon Johnson
    22. Usman Garuba
    23. Tre Mann
    24. Joel Ayayi
    25. Miles McBride
    26. Isaiah Jackson
    27. Terrence Shannon Jr.
    28. Roko Prkacin
    29. Corey Kispert
    30. Charles Bassey
    31. Aaron Henry
    32. Neemias Queeta
    33. Nah’Shon Hyland
    Trey Murphy

    This is why I wouldn’t trade up. The choices from 7 up to 18 don’t offer that much more value. Use the picks!

  345. Swift, your optimism on this board is only surpassed by your intrepid spirit in real life. Congrats to you and your life partner, your kid is in great hands!

  346. I don’t get how anyone wouldn’t have Davion Mitchell in their top 10, but still haven’t looked all that closely yet. But he seems like the real deal to me.

  347. i don’t usually lock my list until draft day but it’s about time for an update anyway since we got some more data from the combine…

    1. Jalen Suggs
    2. Jalen Green
    3. Evan Mobley
    4. Cade Cunningham
    5. Alperen Sengun
    6. Jalen Johnson
    7. James Bouknight
    8. Josh Christopher
    9. Scottie Barnes
    10. Jonathan Kuminga
    11. Keon Johnson
    12. Moses Moody
    13. Charles Bassey
    14. Josh Giddey
    15. Ayo Dosunmu
    16. Tre Mann
    17. Jaden Springer
    18. Franz Wagner
    19. Nah’shon Hyland
    20. Chris Duarte
    21. Isaiah Jackson
    22. Terrence Shannon
    23. Sharife Cooper
    24. Neemias Queta
    25. Kessler Edwards
    26. Aaron Henry
    27. Greg Brown
    28. Corey Kispert
    29. Jared Butler
    30. Davion Mitchell

    Josh Christopher unsurprisingly showed out at the combine .. he showed exactly what he’s done all year which is attacking the rack with abandon and showing dominant scoring ability.. unfortunately he also showed why some are down on him which is questionable shot selection… still the overall package is really appealing..

    Nah’Shon Hyland i didn’t rank before… but that was probably a mistake.. he had a very good soph year but very mediocre as a freshman… taken together the stat profile still looks good… he also showed out at the combine… wingspan also clocked in over 6’9″ which is amazing for a guy his size.. still he’s in combo guard territory due to his size and lack of pg ability… his game is very eerily similar to IQ .. Hyland has a more well rounded game but aesthetically and stylistically it’s almost like looking at the same player.. would be pretty redundant to pick him imo…

    The value on the 19.. 21.. and 32 picks in this draft is really really high… starting from #8-24… you will see wildly different values for them on any mock… and we will very likely have a chance to pick one of them at each of our picks… which is an incredible opportunity…

  348. John Collins has had a large number of monster follow dunks during these playoffs!

  349. I don’t care to debate Trae vs. Luka, but it’s very clear that each of them has ice water in his veins. Trae has no conscience.

    And man, John Collins is gonna get paid this year. Hawks can match, but $121M instead of $90M will have some big luxury tax implications and if I understand correctly, if he signs an offer sheet with another team, he cannot complete a S&T with the Hawks. Is this the circumstance where he can’t be traded for a full year after the Hawks match, or something like that? Someone smarter and more knowledgeable can correct that if it’s wrong.

  350. I’m trying to have a reasonably informed 60 player ranking for the first time this year. It’s…not easy.

    you brave soul….

  351. Mitchell was measured at only 6 feet so I’m a little less enthusiastic about him. He looked bigger in highlights.

  352. kevin5318:
    Mitchell was measured at only 6 feet so I’m a little less enthusiastic about him. He looked bigger in highlights.

    And Cooper was measured at 6’5″ wearing shoes.

  353. much love swift…that’s one very lucky little girl :)

    Margaret is a beautiful name, you got me smiling ear to ear and feeling good inside, thank you so much for sharing…praying for you all to have a blessed journey together…

    yeah, have fun with diaper duty dude…

  354. Woof, I spoke too soon. 7 first half turnovers for the little Doritos muncher!

    Edit: Bobby Porter with them crazy eyes

  355. I looked down to flip a beyond burger and when I looked back up the Bucks were up 30.

  356. djphan:
    cooper is most definitely not 6ft 5…. pretty sure that’s a typo….

    True, but he’s definitely a game changer.

  357. Summarizing Larry Coon (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q42), if the Hawks match an offer for Collins:
    1. Collins gets no-trade rights for the first year of the contract. He cannot be traded without his consent.
    2. During the first year, even with Collins consent, (a) he could not be traded to the team that made the matched offer and (b) he could not be flipped as part of a sign-and-trade.

  358. With Milwaukee leading by 35 and only 4 minutes to go in the 3Q, it is time for McMillan to get his injured players (Bogdonovic & Young) out of the game.

  359. With Milwaukee leading by 35 and only 4 minutes to go in the 3Q, it is time for McMillan to get his injured players (Bogdonovic & Young) out of the game.

    Reeeeeeeeeeally weird usage, right?

  360. Calling Hammon a “finalist” for the Blazers job when it was obvious to everyone that it was Billups’ gig two weeks ago seems so slimy to me.

  361. Seems like ATL’s MO is win game 1 on the road, then lose game 2. The next game will be more telling of where the series will go. Hopefully the Bucks will continue to play like they did tonight.

  362. kevin5318:
    Mitchell was measured at only 6 feet so I’m a little less enthusiastic about him. He looked bigger in highlights.

    I’ve gotten over the “size matters” thing. Sure, all things being equal, take the bigger player. But he seems like a bulldog on both ends.

    Man, I really hope we don’t trade out of the first round of this draft. So much opportunity.

  363. Man, I really hope we don’t trade out of the first round of this draft. So much opportunity.

    Like I’ve said before, I’m not even paying attention to anyone in specific just so I’m not disappointed, but there are so many guys that intrigue the fuck out of me and I agree, why in the world would you want to trade out of the first round of this draft, when #19 and #21 can get you guys who could probably legitimately be in your rotation? This team is on such a strong path forwards with regards to building for a strong future and adding two good young players at #19 and #21 would be a real boon to that path.

  364. Looks like the Hawks crashed down to earth. And now this gets even more interesting, will they fold stunned by this upset (like the Knicks did), or will they fight to come back stronger next time? The next game will be very telling.

  365. Trae more or less did a Randle-like reversion to old Trae last night. The Bucs were obviously well prepared to slow him down after he killed them in game one. What he and Randle have to learn is that if the shot is not there, don’t drive into a wall of defenders. If the pass is not there, don’t force it anyway. All you are going to do is miss or turn the ball over. That’s the kind of nonsense Randle did all last year and in the playoffs this year. It’s the kind of stuff Trae has been getting away from this season and why he has been playing so much better. It may not be glamorous, but when you have nothing in terms of a shot or aggressive pass, you have to simply keep moving the ball until it finds an open player. If they are heavily geared towards stopping you, someone else is going to have good opportunities. You can’t force up trash or turn the ball over trying to do too much. Less can be more. I’m sure he’ll correct that next game, but they are still the inferior team. The Bucks are a bit better and more experienced under fire.

  366. It seems to me like the Hawks get underestimated by every team they face in game 1.

    The Sixers put it together in games 2 & 3 before they unraveled. The Bucks look like they’ve similarly sized the Hawks up now.

    I called Bucks in 6 and predicted Trae would steal two games. I feel pretty good about that as long as we don’t see some Sixers-esque implosion from Milwaukee.

    Another thing.. as djphan pointed out, while Trae was consistently unstoppable against us, he was on and off against Philly. It seems like that might be the case again vs Milwaukee. I thought their defensive strategy in game 1 was pretty dumb. I didn’t catch last night. Did they try the same thing with better results or did they switch it up?

  367. – Congratulations, S&A! That’s huge for you and your family!

    – Davion Mitchell is the same age as Malik Monk, who probably would have looked just as dominant against NCAA talent. His height/age combo alone takes him out of lottery consideration for me, and there’s really no film or statistics that would change my mind.

    – The Hawks probably shouldn’t have beat Philly in the last series, but Nate McMillan out coached Doc Rivers and as a result of that Ben Simmons lost all of his confidence and didn’t play up to what could have been reasonably expected from him. If Ben Simmons could make free throws and Doc Rivers didn’t have 28-3 syndrome, Atlanta loses the last series in five. If Milwaukee doesn’t implode, this is the series Atlanta goes home. Maybe they get one more game at home but I don’t see how Atlanta has a chance in this series.

  368. Yeah the Hawks had nothing in this game. Trae was unable to create space in the paint for his floaters, and missing like all his 3s, and Capela looked like he was 50 on defense. A total down game.

    otoh the when the Bucks built the big lead they were hitting their 3s like they were layups, which I don’t think is sustainable.

  369. Deeefense:
    Trae more or less did a Randle-like reversion to old Trae last night.The Bucs were obviously well prepared to slow him down after he killed them in game one. What he and Randle have to learn is that if the shot is not there, don’t drive into a wall of defenders. If the pass is not there, don’t force it anyway. All you are going to do is miss or turn the ball over. That’s the kind of nonsense Randle did all last year and in the playoffs this year. It’s the kind of stuff Trae has been getting away from this season and why he has been playing so much better. It may not be glamorous, but when you have nothing in terms of a shot or aggressive pass, you have to simply keep moving the ball until it finds an open player. If they are heavily geared towards stopping you, someone else is going to have good opportunities. You can’t force up trash or turn the ball over trying to do too much. Less can be more.I’m sure he’ll correct that next game, but they are still the inferior team. The Bucks are a bit better and more experienced under fire.

    Randle seemed to be playing as if he was on heavy doses of caffeine mixed with adrenaline in the playoffs. Hopefully he’ll calm down the next time.

  370. @alderalmo
    “You have to be ready for all the possibilities — move up, move back, trade out… We’re looking for wings & guys who can shoot. There’s a lot of guys who can be good pros. There’s a lot of value here.” – Thibs interview during Draft Combine

    “Wings and guys who can shoot.” Good. Keep the picks and try to assemble some Atlanta-style cheap offensive depth.

  371. Saw that too, Alan. And for the rest, here’s the article if you haven’t read it yet.

    Tom Thibodeau bares what Knicks are looking for in NBA Draft

    I think Thibs is changing his idea about how valuable the draft is, and i liked a lot this quote from him:
    I love coming here for the opportunity to sit down and interview with players. You get to know them a lot better. So you’re still gathering information. You see who might be a good fit for you. And again, I think we’re looking for wings and guys who can shoot. So there’s a number of guys that we think are gonna be good pros. So there’s a lot of value here

  372. Brian Cronin: Like I’ve said before, I’m not even paying attention to anyone in specific just so I’m not disappointed, but there are so many guys that intrigue the fuck out of me and I agree, why in the world would you want to trade out of the first round of this draft, when #19 and #21 can get you guys who could probably legitimately be in your rotation? This team is on such a strong path forwards with regards to building for a strong future and adding two good young players at #19 and #21 would be a real boon to that path.

    I’m there, too. I look at all the mock drafts, but not really “scout” the potential guys. Just see who the Knicks end up with.

    If the Knicks want to move up, I wonder if Knox has any little value at all? I realize maybe none… How far could they go packaging, say, the #19, Knox, and the #32?

    All the way up to #18? :-)

  373. Pretty solid list djphan,

    Hyland really looks like an IQ clone, doesn’t he?

    It will be interesting to see which direction they go with these picks. I’m usually a “go for the highest upside” guy, but I think there’s a good case for this team to try and grab as many future stud role-players as they can.

    It will be tempting to trade up for a Giddey type, but young guys with warts like Christopher or Zaire Williams could fall to 19. They will be projects but have pretty high upsides.

    On the other hand, the Knicks could easily opt for guys like McBride, Trey Murphy, or Duarte who can come in and play a role on a winning team right away. This might be the way to go, too, because if they can run out a 12-deep #4 seed, they will be in a great spot to attract free agents as their future #1 and #2 guys.

    IMO, this is what I think they will try to do: build around their best players (Randle, RJ) with as many “good” and inexpensive players as possible, coach them up, and wait for the top free agents to come to NY. NYC as the draw was always the looming plan, they just needed to build a program that guys would want to be a part of.

  374. DudeInKnicksTown:
    What kind of wings is Thibs looking for? The spicy kind?

    speaking of wings…I can’t find them at all anymore in supermarkets…it’s like they have completely disappeared…some weird food supply chain issues going on right now…

  375. pepper: speaking of wings…I can’t find them at all anymore in supermarkets…it’s like they have completely disappeared…some weird food supply chain issues going on right now…

    Maybe Thibs has already cornered the market in them?

  376. Looks like I’m headed back to staples center this evening. Rooting for clips to win the game, but the suns to win the series. (Objective and dispassionate fandom is the best).

  377. IMO, this is what I think they will try to do: build around their best players (Randle, RJ) with as many “good” and inexpensive players as possible, coach them up, and wait for the top free agents to come to NY. NYC as the draw was always the looming plan, they just needed to build a program that guys would want to be a part of.

    I was going to post something similar but you said it perfectly.

  378. Wings went from $80 a case to $130 a case where I live in upstate for the restaurants here. They aren’t even ordering them anymore.

  379. I thought their defensive strategy in game 1 was pretty dumb. I didn’t catch last night. Did they try the same thing with better results or did they switch it up?

    the bucks like the knicks had some success with drop coverages in the regular season so they continued that and trae just killed them on floaters in game 1…. just very little resistance.. game 2 they had lopez a little further up and start back pedaling to mitigate that but they did most of their damage with giannis as the center and portis as the 4…. and just switching everything seemed to be effective…

    one thing they have been consistently doing is going under all those trae screens… they are goading him into shooting…. i imagine they are doing that because trae is good at foulbaiting aggressive follows when you go over the screen anyway… and also trae tends to shoot terrible 3pt shots which accounts for mediocre %s… we’ll see if trae keeps knocking them down but i happen to think it’s a good strategy…

  380. TheClashFan: If the Knicks want to move up, I wonder if Knox has any little value at all? I realize maybe none… How far could they go packaging, say, the #19, Knox, and the #32?
    All the way up to #18? :-)

    Maybe the Spurs surrender the 12th pick for that package

  381. DudeInKnicksTown:
    What kind of wings is Thibs looking for? The spicy kind?

    Mango habanero! I make my own sauce!

    Hmm…no problem finding wings down here in East Tennessee.

  382. Donnie Walsh: Looks like I’m headed back to staples center this evening. Rooting for clips to win the game, but the suns to win the series. (Objective and dispassionate fandom is the best).

    Can you go talk to Kawhi and convince him to come to the Knicks, or is that tampering? :D

  383. speaking of wings, what (if anything) would you offer Justise Winslow if Memphis doesn’t pick up his 13 million dollar option? He was creeping towards being an acceptable offensive player his last full season with the Heat but he’s been hurt and was so bad with Memphis last year I wouldn’t be surprised if they let him go.

  384. Objective and dispassionate fandom is the best

    the do what donnie do way…have fun :)

  385. Shariffe feels like the one guy in our range that we will regret not taking a few years from now.

  386. kevin5318:
    Shariffe feels like the one guy in our range that we will regret not taking a few years from now.

    Let’s hope we take him.

  387. i’m not entirely confident that winslow is healthy… or will ever be… he’s had several major injuries to some very important body parts (shoulder.. back.. hip)… i haven’t seen him play lately but i imagine the grizzlies are not going to pickup the option…

    i would take him on a 1+1.. but it’s an iffy proposition to depend on rotation minutes for him…. but could work out… i think we’re mostly shopping the 1 yr deal market aside from our pg position anyway so he might be on the radar….

  388. Devin Booker just was called for traveling on the same play that happened to Randle against the Nets during the regular season. Booker went up for a shot, Beverley got his hand on the ball, ball momentarily came loose, Booker regained control before he landed.

    That is traveling, per the NBA.

  389. It was a close call. So was the jump ball. And thenoverturn of Beverley block was correct. Feel like the refs have done ok at the end here.

    Good for George making those free throws.

    Pretty rare for Paul to miss so many jump shots. Could have iced this game like he normally does.

    And I agree with the crew that the ball could have been called off Payne

  390. Boogie I think knows that rule. I have had to do that. It’s not as easy as it seems and it’s not something you practice.

  391. clips were down by 2 so boogie needed to bounce the ball off the rim on his second free throw attempt and hope the clips grabbed it and made a basket…

    i watched like the last 30 seconds of the whole game – but, the part that i did see: the ball 1,000,000,000 percent went off of payne’s hand there at the very end

  392. Wow, what a weird game. I thought it was Morris who threw the ball off the backboard, I didn’t even know Cousins was in the game (I didn’t even know Cousins was on the team). That play was a real head scratcher. But it was on par with the rest of the game, which was like watching 10 John Starkses face off against each other with a season hanging in the balance. (Did Z-Man watch it? Did it make him nostalgic for the good old days of the insurmountable 1 point lead?)

    I will say this: the Clips/Jazz game two weeks ago was half full and felt like a WNBA game. This game was played with a capacity crowd, and it felt like an playoff game. So that was cool.

  393. cadet candidate (state your last name) reports to the first sergeant for the first time as ordered (salute)…i’ll never forget that simple phrase for the rest of my life, maybe 30% of all humans are actually capable of getting that shit out coherently the first day, i was not one of them…

  394. *** the ball 1,000,000,000 percent went off of payne’s hand there at the very end***

    Ease his Payne.

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