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[Posting and Toasting] – Thu, 07 Dec 2023 13:00:00 GMT
Is Tom Thibodeau losing the Knicks locker room?
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[Posting and Toasting] – Thu, 07 Dec 2023 21:00:00 GMT
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[Posting and Toasting] – Thu, 07 Dec 2023 17:00:00 GMT
The Knicks struggle against top teams: Is this the reason?
[New York Post] – Thu, 07 Dec 2023 20:45:00 GMT
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[Sports Illustrated] – Thu, 07 Dec 2023 22:22:39 GMT
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[Daily Knicks] – Thu, 07 Dec 2023 13:00:04 GMT
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[Bleacher Report] – Thu, 07 Dec 2023 19:46:15 GMT
NBA Rumors: Pistons Have ‘No Immediate Plans to Trade’ Bogdanovi amid Knicks Buzz
[New York Post] – Thu, 07 Dec 2023 14:40:00 GMT
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[NBA.com] – Fri, 08 Dec 2023 03:58:21 GMT
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[Sports Illustrated] – Thu, 07 Dec 2023 16:11:54 GMT
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[Fox Sports] – Fri, 08 Dec 2023 00:31:05 GMT
NBA 2023: Zach LaVine trade rumours, LA Lakers, D’Angelo Russell, Rui Hachimura, when do free agents become eligible to be traded, New York Knicks frustration, Quintin Grimes, whispers, latest news
[Fox Sports] – Fri, 08 Dec 2023 07:02:55 GMT
Boston Celtics vs New York Knicks – National Basketball Association Regular Season, 2023
138 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.12.08)”
As long as LeBron and AD are able to avoid injuries the Lakers are good, Pelinka did a nice job filling the roster around his stars (he finally learned to do it without washed-up former all-stars).
Also, playing with LeBron is the NBA version of going to the Betty Ford Clinic, he makes miracles with ego-addict players (and it was the only move Cam could do to save his career).
Clyde>Halliburton>Brunson
I’m honestly amazed with what Pelinka pulled off, given the paucity of assets (for which he was partially to blame).
LA is a nice place for a gap year
Ha! That’s what my son is about to do. And maybe me too.
Not all is bad about being eliminated from the IST…
Suddenly the media is interested in the glut at wing because first Hart and now Grimes have now expressed some unhappiness.
Imagine what Quickley thinks.
This problem was obvious the moment they brought in DDV. There was already a glut at SG that left Fournier unhappy (who is still a rotation piece even if not next to Brunson) and they were bringing in anther one. Even if Hart took Obi’s minutes because they have no backup PF, there was still a minutes shortage.
Even worse than the glut is that a very good basketball case can be made that Quickley’s minutes should be rising and he should be getting minutes with Brunson. Instead his minutes are falling in a contact year. If I was him I’d want out after this year. IMO, that would be a debacle for NY unless it was part of deal they simply couldn’t say “no” to.
It’s one thing to add talent.
DDR is a useful player that fits the culture. But they obviously have too much at wing, no backup PF for certain matchups or if Randle gets hurt, and they are making important players unhappy.
All of this was obvious the moment DDV was brought in.
So now, which one goes besides Fournier?
Yeah, agreed. I think DDV is a fine player, and his contract is a fine value, but he really seems to belong on a different roster than the Knicks. This is the ultimate consolidation roster and yet…no consolidation. It sort of speaks to some of the issues with Rose, in that he seems to just be waiting for the “perfect” moment, but “perfect” moments rarely actually happen, and when they do, they tend to be for teams with a rising superstar already on the team (so a “perfect” player happens to get free at the same time to join the superstar, a la AD to the Lakers).
And the one big move Rose tried to make as his “perfect moment” move was trading IQ, RJ, two unprotected picks, and a top five protected pick for Donovan Mitchell. Which…well, you know, probably wasn’t the best idea, either.
i’m not sure i blame Pelinka or Lebron but it’s possible that the westbrook trade cost them a championship… kcp and kuzma would’ve been real nice to have for the last couple of years…
really nice to have hali perform so well on a national stage …. brilliant player…
While there is certainly validity to the contention that DDV was redundant. and that consolidation around a better player to address the glut of 6’5-ish SG-wings is necessary, there also needs to be some patience here. It’s not like Leon has boxed himself in to an irreparable situation. The Knicks are still in a rebuilding process and are not a finished product, nor will they be for at least a couple of years unless they bag a superstar. If that doesn’t happen, the churning will continue until the inevitable all-in move happens.
What I object to is the notion that this team becomes etched in stone at some point in the next year or two due to the second apron. There is literally zero reason to worry about that. There are ways to stay under that level, including letting some players go via trades or free agency. Sometimes you have to take a couple of steps back to ultimately move forward. Who knows? There may even be a selective year of tanking, or an accidentank (see: Dallas) to fill a void on the cheap.
The most pressing immediate issue is Thibs. I think the dissatisfaction expressed by Fournier, Ca, Obi, Hart, and now Grimes, plus some of the perceptions around the league (voted the coach players would least like to play for) might put him one losing streak away from being replaced. He was in trouble at this time last year and survived. If things go south, i.e. we start losing to some bad teams and keep losing to the good teams (and we are in a very tough stretch thanks to making the IST knockout round) his seat could start to warm significantly.
DDV is an obvious upgrade on Grimes and has already come up huge in 4th quarters of wins. He has a higher BPM right now than IQ. He has been a pretty smart signing so far.
It’s hilarious to me that people, not just on here but in general, complain about teams not having enough depth but when they do have depth then they complain it’s too many players and they have to consolidate the roster. Can’t have it both ways.
DDV has played well, and he plays the same position as Grimes, who has played so poorly that it is reasonable to question his future in the league. To me that’s the bigger story: one of our supposed young building blocks has been truly terrible all year. It’s not really a “glut” at a position if the best position of one of the players involved in the “glut” is DNP-CD.
I’ve come out of read-only mode to give Max a standing O for this:
LeBron : Cam :: Hali : Obi
Advanced stats say Cam still sucks this season.
Grimes playing poorly thus far this year=/= Grimes is a not an NBA player
We’re seeing that with Obi, and less so with Cam. Like Obi, Grimes being his best self is highly dependent on how he is utilized and who is around him. That goes for lots of useful players in the NBA.
I think it was a good thing that he vented in the media. He clearly was holding a lot inside and hopefully this frees him up a bit. If not, maybe other teams who need shooting start expressing interest. It’s not like he’s untouchable or anything, especially now. But he is a distressed asset right now and needs to get it going before we just dump him. Would have been nice if we could have done that with Obi, who was we probably could have gotten better second rounders for than the two we got.
“Advanced stats say Cam still sucks this season.”
He’s useful in his role and costs nothing. Let’s see whether he improves as he settles in. Probably not a good bet, but worth keeping an eye on.
I’ve not watched more than a few minutes of Lakers games this year, but I just went to bref to look at Cam and there is zero there to suggest he is anything more than he always has been. I mean, no statistical category that I could find that is significantly improved (and the ones that look a little better are equivalent to some previous year), and in fact a number of them are worse off.
His DBPM is 1.7, so I guess there’s that, although he did have a year at 1.2. Not quite sure what the magical transformation is, outside of having Dr. James say nice things. Anyone paying attention and can say?
Damn I type slowly. BBA and Z-Man had an entire conversation while I labored to get this out…
I’d love to see if venting to the media even matters much, long term. Like, Mitch seemed to complain on social media all of the time, and he just became a bigger part of the team over time. Like, if Lebron James is calling you out on social media, okay, that’s probably not a good sign for you, but if non-stars complain, does it really matter at all?
Meanwhile Obi’s up in most things, which is not surprising at all given more time, a more sensible role, and Hali running the show. He’s sporting a .703 TS%, but interestingly his TRB% and AST% are way down, as is his USG%. All of which I guess are role, although I’m a bit surprised by the USG% being down. His DBPM is -1.5, worse than ever, so there’s that…
Hart seems to really love playing with Brunson, I think he was unhappy because he was shooting like shit earlier in the year. Grimes is the issue. Donte has been very good. If we’re not going to play grimes in the G league we should let him run with the bench mob where he’ll almost have to shoot more.
“I’d love to see if venting to the media even matters much, long term. Like, Mitch seemed to complain on social media all of the time, and he just became a bigger part of the team over time. Like, if Lebron James is calling you out on social media, okay, that’s probably not a good sign for you, but if non-stars complain, does it really matter at all?”
Well I don’t think that Thibs is going to go 7SoL or anything like that, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a positive effect in the short term. In fact, it might have been a shot at Brunson, RJ, and Randle more than at Thibs. A cynical but not crazy vies is maybe he’s suggesting that Brunson is purposely sabotaging him because he wants to play more with his ‘Nova bestie. Brunson was quick to say stuff like “It’s on me to get him more involved” so let’s see if that happens, starting tonight.
For the record, I believe in Grimes as a guy who can help you win games and think his game and stats will eventually revert to its .600+TS self on mid-teens usage once the dust settles. Maybe he and DDV flip roles to jumpstart that process. I seriously doubt that he’s going to be benched anytime soon.
Cam Reddish NBA career was basically over, even the Portland Trail Blazers, a team actively intent on tanking and shedding salary, weren’t interested in re-sign him at the minimum.
He went to the Lakers as a borderline roster guy, puts an effort on defense that was never seen before, stands in the corner without complaining, limits his bonehead plays and never complains about his minutes or scoring opportunities, and now he’s a starter.
Maybe it’ll last only another 5 games, but I call this “saving a career” and he’s doing this because when you play with LeBron you won’t complain, the pecking order is crystal clear, who decides when you shoot and how many times you shoot is clear, there’s a man in charge and you just shut up and play or else…
His dream of being a star in the League has gone in the sewers, the alternatives were playing in Madrid, Milan or Beograd, instead he accepted his (very) diminished role under LeBron, as Malik Monk, JR Smith and many others did in the past and maybe he found his niche.
Sorry Raven for the long answer 🙂
Not to pick on you but I’m getting really bored reading posts and articles about this EVERY FUCKING DAY.
The season is less than 2 months old. The trade season doesn’t even begin until next week.
Maybe it’s just the age we live in of social media but this constant obsession with EVERYTHING MUST HAPPEN INSTANTLY AT ONCE NOW NOW NOW is getting so exhausting.
They signed DDV THIS summer. We’ve played like 20 games with our absolutely horrible glut of shooting guards (and have managed to be 12-8 despite this travesty of roster construction).
And yet there is so much LEON ISN’T DOING ANYTHING every fucking day. Like aren’t we all tired of writing and posting and reading the same stupid complaints?
Rome wasn’t built in a day but if the Romans were building Rome in 2023 there would be constant tweets and segments and articles and posts about WHY ISN’T THE FORUM DONE YET! WHAT IS CAESAR DOING!
What is the rush? The trade market opens up next week and runs through February.
I am so glad Leon is patient. Knicks fans lament the short cuts the franchise made for twenty years to try and win now and the second we put together a decent team everyone is like ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. It’s so tiresome. Do people really want Leon to trade a bunch of our players and picks for someone who actually isn’t the best fit for us?
The Lakers cut Reddish’s usage down to practically zero, so now he’s essentially a Thibs-style “stand in the corner and only shoot if nobody is near you” offensive player who focuses mainly on defense.
In short, he is now a Hustlebunny. And not a particularly great one. He IS getting minutes on a good team, so good for him.
“Meanwhile Obi’s up in most things, which is not surprising at all given more time, a more sensible role, and Hali running the show. He’s sporting a .703 TS%, but interestingly his TRB% and AST% are way down, as is his USG%. All of which I guess are role, although I’m a bit surprised by the USG% being down. His DBPM is -1.5, worse than ever, so there’s that…”
None of that is surprising. He’s sort of a nominal starter whose playing time and role are dependent on matchups and situations. That’s the interesting thing about the Pacers….they have a lot of versatility, most notably at the wing position. And they are using Obi more like a wing than the Knicks did…which works to his benefit.
One guy getting lost in the Hali hype is Myles Turner. He’s been really freakin’ good…and if Mitch gets a pass for his lowly BPM, Turner should get a double-pass.
I think we should NOT TALK ABOUT IMPROVING THE TEAM and only discuss HOW FUCKING AWESOME THE KNICKS ARE every day and I’m just SO SICK OF HEARING ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE and you guys are just a BUNCH OF HATERS and I am just so mad that people don’t have my exact viewpoint that I am going to SHOUT OUT REAL LOUD IN ALL CAPS TO SHOW YOU I MEAN BUSINESS
Not to pick on you but I’m getting really bored reading posts and articles about this EVERY FUCKING DAY.
HERE’S ANOTHER POST DOING MY USUAL NEGATIVITY OUTRAGE SHTICK BUT TODAY I RAIL AGAINST MONOTONY
Lebron James had 30 points and 8 assists in 22 minutes, you could put almost anyone in the NBA in the corner and they would have rolled the clearly hungover pelicans, what are we even talking about Cam Reddish for
Swifty is buggin…
I think some of the impatience is being driven by seeing some teams emerge from the lottery ranks….OKC, HOU, IND, ORL, SAC to name a few…as well as SAS landing Wemby. That kind of makes us boring. We don’t have the upside of those teams, nor have we shown the ability to beat the elite teams like MIL or BOS. It also seems like the pipe dreams of acquiring Embiid and Giannis have flamed out. So I sort of get it.
But I agree that we should try to enjoy the team as is, so long as we keep up the 12-8 pace.
I’m not worried about Grimes.
He’s still contributing solidly on defense and he’s still a good 3 point shooter with a quick release that provides space. The problem with him is that his entire role is standing in the corner providing space. If you listened to the JJ Reddick podcast with KP this week, they were both venting about having that role in certain series and how frustrating it is and how hard it is to get into shooting rhythm.
I fully understand why you would want a good shooter standing in the corner. It’s such a value added shot the defense will have to stick with him. That creates space. But limiting a guy to that seems counter productive. Good shots are also created by ball and player movement. How about setting some picks to get him open and see if he’s productive that way instead of just waiting for 1-2 kick outs per game.
Granted, some of this is on Grimes. His handle hasn’t improved and he’s often passive and plays hot potato on the perimeter. But our offense kind of sucks in part due to spacing and in part due the reliance on ISO and OREBs.
In other words, the natural day-to-day experience of purgatory.
That gets into philosophy of life territory in which there’s really no “wrong” or “right” answer, merely different perspectives. Basketball Stoicism is an ethos, to be sure.
I think we need a Friday Night Knickerblogger theme song to go with some of these postings. JK, up for that?
Max, thanks for the summary on Cam (ditto to Z-Man). And I’m with Swiftie, although JK made me laugh into my coffee. I do think the doom-and-gloomers out there are different from objective roster improvement architects. Coming here to drop trou and take a big dump in public on a regular basis just seems like a weird way to get attention. Although it does (not surprisingly) offend some folks enough to highjack a thread, so I guess it works as narcissistic attention grabbing.
What would help Grimes a lot is to develop a simple pull-up game, sort of like Booker. He’s very good at slipping close-outs, but instead of pulling up from 10-18 feet he barrels towards the rim and invariably tries to pass to Mitch.
Mid-range jumpers are not ideal, but every good offensive player has that in their arsenal as a secondary shot when guys over-commit to the close-out. Grimes really needs to develop confidence with it. He can only get to the rim in a straight line, so I don’t expect that to change much.
I don’t mind him waiting for the right “all in” player for at least another summer, but he came into the season with a roster that obviously needed a consolidation and that was missing a legit backup PF.
Personally, I think the thought process went something like this.
“Obi is not happy with his role. Let’s just take whatever we can get for him and bring in DDV. That will make Brunson and Hart happy. Also, while we’re at it let’s bring back Arcidiacono for the end of the bench. That will make them all happy. We’ll worry about how this impacts minutes, PF, and team chemistry for Fournier, Grimes, Quickley etc… later. ”
So now it’s “later”, players are unhappy, and imo we are not making optimal basketball lineup decisions. So IMO we should do something at the deadline.
That brings me back to my greatest fear about not signing Quickley when this all went down. IMO, smart teams are going to want Quickley in a trade. A dumb team would trade him to end the logjam and avoid paying him a lot to play off the bench when he should be playing more with Brunson.
So many CAPS
The halo effect is real. Winning makes everyone look different.
Looks like Strat’s spell checker changed “Thibs” to “Brunson and Hart.”
https://twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1733160299925029368?s=19
At least there’s 1 member of the national media that likes the Knicks!
I’m fine with throwing Thibs into the mix on that one and the lack of creativity on offense.
i think you have to worry at least some about grimes. he isn’t just struggling in the offense, his capacity to bounce the ball or even himself toward the rim in a useful manner has just completely evaporated. last year he made 2.7 fgm/100 at the rim. that’s not awesome but it’s not nothing — jalenish levels. this year he’s at .85/100! and essentially none of them are unassisted. likewise, his rim-assists last year were, believe it or not, higher than randle’s. he was usefully attacking closeouts and dropping dimes. this year they are down to .7/100. he’s seen the free throw line less often than mitch’s practice shoes (j/k he definitely does practice).
even though this was always a secondary part of grimes’ profile, these things still matter on the margin (especially their trajectoriess when you are young and might improve). grimes can still be an effective 3&D type, but these skills aren’t binary. he’s a good shooter with a fantastically high release but we don’t know quite how good a shooter. and he’s a very good man defender but he lacks disruption and his help defense is just okay. everything counts, and even though he’s in a far from perfect spot, you have to worry a bit.
Alex Wolfe pointed out that, in 300-plus minutes, the starters have like the fifth-best 5-man lineup in the league. So I don’t think Grimes is going to be moved from the starting lineup, at least not for a while.
Idk if his struggles on offense are even that surprising. He worked on a lot of footwork & positional stuff with Reddick over the summer, and he’s clearly still digesting it. As such, his shot is maybe a bit off, and he looks like he’s in his head out there.
Grimes just needs to stop thinking and cut loose… and not be afraid to make mistakes. He’s not going to become mini-Reddick overnight.
I think his outburst was more frustration at himself and how the situation isn’t helping him get his new moves down. There’s really nothing for him to do but practice more and just keep going.
That’s all I’m saying. Every day this blog is full of people nitpicking and criticizing what should be a rather enjoyable experience. It kind of makes me want to NOT come her.
Like I threw out a legit question yesterday about DeRozan and what people would want to give up for him, etc…and I think it got one or two responses? That would be an interesting thread to read. It would be interesting to talk about the benefits and possible drawbacks of getting DeRozan. Who we would like to give up, who we think Chicago would take, and what we would need to do after it.
I’m not saying don’t talk about how to improve the team. But when it turns into Randle hating or Leon is lazy takes or oh woe is me Obi is doing well on another team or lamenting that we can’t beat Boston or The Bucks yet…I don’t know…it just gets stale as shit quickly.
Like can’t we keep it positive and discuss realistic ways to keep building? And does anyone really think Leon is done?
And I know it’s not just here. That Kenny Smith and Barkley shit pissed me off. The roster has not been the same for 3 years. Fuck you. We got Brunson last year. We added Hart at the deadline. The Bucks and Boston were already ahead of us on the win curve, so because of that Leon should just MAKE A MOVE for the sake or what exactly? I’m supposed to feel bad because The Knicks are decent but not title contenders? Fuck you.
ptmilo
How much of that is Grimes and how much of that is Grimes being told to stand in the corner?
I’m not sure if you listened to the JJ Reddick podcast. It had nothing to do with Grimes, but there was a whole section about the times he and KP were basically told “This is not going to be your series. Your job is going to be to stand in the corner”. They were expressing the frustration and how hard it is to play like that (not to mention limiting).
I’m not sure if I’m one of the two you noticed, but I’m a hard “No”. I think he adds to the spacing problems and would be a downgrade (probably significant one at this stage of his career) on defense compared to Grimes. He’s also not young and will want another contract.
“In other words, the natural day-to-day experience of purgatory.”
I don’t think anyone disputes that the Knicks are in a stage that can (extremely and unnecessarily tediously, imho) be defined that way. The question has largely been about the duration of this phase of the rebuild. Are we on the dreaded “treadmill of mediocrity?” Or just in a temporary holding pattern (as a young, exciting, likely playoff team with a favorable cap/asset situation) waiting for an inevitable opportunity to make a leap when the opportunity presents itself?
Obviously it’s only sports, so whatever gets your rocks off. I’m prone to optimism in most things. Yesterday I was subbing as a teacher/administrator in my old school, and spent part of the day in an office with a 12yo 8th grader living in extreme poverty who arrived at school so stoned that she had to sleep on a couch until after noon. Yet when she awoke, she told me how pissed she was that she only got 27.5 out of 28 on her Regents Algebra I quiz. I don’t know if any of the words I employed to try to inspire her will have any impact. But I’m glad I’m as optimistic about her as I have been for every one of the many similar middle schoolers I have had such convos with over the last 30+ years. If I had to call in a consultant from KB to assist in those moments, swifty would be at the top of the list. Guess who would be at the bottom? But hey, he who expects nothing is never disappointed!
Grimes is not told to just stand in the corner. He’s told to space the floor but you can do that while still cutting and repositioning yourself in the perimeter to get open looks which is exactly what DDV and Hart do. Even Brunson when Randle is ISOing many times he’ll smartly reposition himself on the 3pt line opening up a passing lane for Randle.
Grimes just has to be willing to do those things which he seemed perfectly fine doing last season, maybe moving to the bench to play more with the 2nd unit would embolden him to be more aggressive.
Schedule rest of this month is brutal, 9 of 12 games on the road with only Toronto and Utah teams under .500
“Grimes is not told to just stand in the corner.”
Well when you have three players who all play in the same way, like RJ, Brunson, and Randle do, and you have a fourth player who pretty much sets screens and lurks in the dunker’s spot. there’s not a whole lot of ways to get involved. DDV probably benefits from not being on the floor with those other four guys a whole lot.
grimes shoots 70% of his shots from 3… when he’s not shooting 38% … he becomes quite invisible and quite useless much like anyone with that kind of profile…
he’s had similar streaks like this only to have a couple weeks of hot shooting to barely get him over the mendoza line… but in totality he was still a negative player since he never shot 40% for a guy who depends on 3s… most people were anticipating growth .. but if there’s no growth to any part of his game then he’s at best that semi-useful but mostly not moving the needle guy that he has been …
which is why it was always going to be friction between him and donte… it’s either he shows growth and deserves more minutes where donte is blocking his path… or more likely he’s blocking more minutes for donte to play more…
there’s still time since a couple weeks of good play can get his season back on track…. but i think the folks putting him in the same sentence as mikal bridges got some explaining to do….
I hate to be Joe Pessimist, and again a lot of this is subjective preference … but the team really isn’t that “exciting.” They play a pre-modern offense, featuring a ton of iso, not a lot of ball movement, and a very slow pace. One of their two front-line guys does stupid, low IQ stuff on a regular basis, is indifferent about defense, and prone to whining. The coach is a stubborn older dude stuck in his ways.
If one wants to suggest that there’s a certain baseline level of “excitement” from a team of guys putting on the Knicks colors and playing on MSG, I wouldn’t disagree … but the excitement doesn’t rise much above that inherent baseline.
I’m a Knicks fan, I enjoy watching and attending Knicks games … beyond that, I don’t find this team really that exciting. (They’re not that “young,” either, in large measure because of charring/incinerating first round draft picks in each of the last three drafts. Beyond Brunson, they haven’t really imported anyone that interesting and the one guy who kind of was, they traded for no real reason.)
When people complain about too much ISO it’s a clear indication to me they don’t watch too much basketball. Almost every play is ISO or PnR which usually turns into an ISO.
There isn’t much creativity in NBA offenses though I do agree that the Knicks should play at a faster pace although when the bench unit does so at times it leads to quick, rushed 3pters that annoy me when they miss and I yell at the TV for them to slow down and don’t rush shots lol
I mean, you’re not wrong. At all. This take is exactly correct.
It’s also the exact same take I have had for years, and that I get constantly flamed for: it sure would be nice sometime to try a ground-up rebuild that focuses on asset collection over marginal wins, because that kind of rebuild has a higher upside and is a better path to actual contention.
This is still an entertaining team that I enjoy watching, and maybe Leon pulls off some sort of big move, but yeah, what do you know, it turns out that it’s kinda frustrating getting surpassed by teams that have built in the way that some of us have been advocating for decades.
IQ’s interesting and I unintentionally left him out, but even the interest and potential excitement from him gets sapped from the organization and coach obviously not really feeling him for whatever dumbass reasons they have.
It’s not really that exciting to see the coach sap the individuality out of every player here, other than the one guy you don’t really want to see it from.
Re: DeRozan
I considered him during his free agency 3 years ago (and got an earful for it 🙂 ), now I’m a straight “No”.
35-years old, expiring contract, loves the midrange/rim (like JB, Julius and RJ), declining defender.
Inserting him at SF, with RJ shifting to SG, surely doesn’t help with our spacing issues and I think weakens our defense.
Maybe you can use IQ or DDV at SG and let RJ lead the Bench Mob, but I don’t think it’s worth the effort and time used to recalibrate lineups or the probable cost of the trade.
DeRozan doesn’t get you out of purgatory. Hard pass.
Exactly.
The bench unit is at least trying to push the ball with Hart and Quickley and is more creative and balanced than the starters. That’s why some people think both Grimes and the starting lineup might benefit from swapping him and DDV. That might free Grimes up to do more of what he’s capable of doing and not just standing in the corner watching Brunson, Randle, and RJ take turns.
At first I thought that might be a good idea, but the more I watch DDV the more I think I overrated his defense initially. He makes those hustle plays and steals which are terrific, but I think overall Grimes may be the better option to put on best wing scorer.
Quentin Grimes was a better age 22 player than Mikal Bridges. Whether Grimes progresses doesn’t change that.
Nobody was ever under the impression that Grimes was on a guaranteed track to becoming Mikal Bridges. But if Mikal can turn into a 20ppg scorer, why were people certain Grimes can’t add 3-4 more ppg?
Anyway, it damn sure is good we signed DiVo this year. Kind of weird for the “Grimes has always been a bum” guy to see that as a bad move.
He was not because any numbers that would lead to that conclusion are downstream from underlying skill and Grimes’s underlying skill is nowhere near Mikal’s.
But the second apron is definitely a major concern for the team. Heck, it’s almost assuredly why they dumped Obi for basically nothing. If they resign IQ and iHart, they’ll likely be over the second apron, and then, well, what? You don’t want to be over the second apron with just the current roster. So that’s why there likely has to be some sort of consolidation trade coming at some point. That’s the only reason the second apron is such a big deal. Otherwise, they probably could continue to punt for a couple more seasons until they had to resign Brunson. As is, I don’t think there’s any way in the world that Leon Rose plans to go over the second apron with just this year’s team and some new draft picks.
that’s certainly an interpretation… but that doesn’t change the fact that mikal bridges was the better 19, 20 and arguably 21 yo player than grimes and was doing way more things than grimes at every level….
that grimes hit like a dozen more 3s and squeeked by some artificial bpm benchmark you set doesn’t change any of that…..
The Starters and the Bench Mob don’t play the same game, just like last year.
With a balanced usage (IQ takes more shots, but it’s not even close to what JB and Julius do), I-Hart directing traffic from the high post, the Nova Boys constantly moving and cutting and everyone trying to run every time there’s a chance, it’s close to another sport… 😀
P.S. And they play mostly against opponents’ benches…
No one is ever just told “don’t do anything other than stand in the corner”, but his role now is spacer. If you want more from him you have set picks for him, run plays for him etc… or his positioning in the corner/wing becomes his permanent home doing nothing. Just like KP and Reddick, when they were positioned in the corner like that for spacing purposes, they were being underutilized relative their specific skillsets. And course in KP’s case the fans and media whined that he wasn’t doing enough just like we are worried about Grimes. Grimes is fine. He didn’t take a step up like we were hoping, but he’s the same player.
How much of that is Grimes and how much of that is Grimes being told to stand in the corner?
sure i think i there is some decrement to being a secondary guy on a team with no pure point guard that also doesn’t run a lot of interesting movement based actions in general or plays for you . but grimes has chances to back cut and attack close outs and he has really looked deer in headlightsish inside the arc this year. was hoping to see some modest uptick in his finishing bag and a few attempts to try a second speed, maybe even a hostage dribble or two, but so far he’s gone the other way. he is just so bad a using his body to finish it offsets his awesome first step and decent passing eye. in his defense he did attempt the most audaciously panglossian dunk since bargs.
https://discord.com/channels/1048951437582942299/1048951437582942302/1182734254367580160
But the second apron is definitely a major concern for the team. Heck, it’s almost assuredly why they dumped Obi for basically nothing. If they resign IQ and iHart, they’ll likely be over the second apron, and then, well, what?
i don’t think so? what’s your math on that?
I hope people understand a little better now why signing players like Hart and Divo causes redundancy. They take minutes and money from the younger players like IQ and Grimes. You can’t say you love them and keep signing players to long term contracts to replace them. They’re not stupid. They’re not robots. It has to bother them. At least one, if not both surely has to go now.
So now we’re not a young rebuilding team anymore. We are a solid team with players in their prime, but our championship window if we have one, expires as our two stars age and start to decline, or eventually get more expensive or leave. The question is who we can add to get to the next level. OG is probably going to be available at some point, but the price tag will be very high. The same goes for Jerami Grant. Strat has talked me out of DeRozan. Who else is out there? We keep passing on players like Holiday or KP, while our competitors get stronger and stronger. We are boxed in. It’s not impossible to move up from here, but it won’t be easy. We may have to settle for a good team that can’t become great.
OKC and Sac lost in the 1st rd last season. Hou, Ind and Orl haven’t made the playoffs in years and are not locks to even do so this season. Yet all 5 teams have already surpassed the Knicks?? Cmon now, it’s comments like that which are disingenuous.
Spotrac says that their 2024-25 active luxury tax is $150,368,612, without IQ, iHart and the picks. Is that not right? If it’s wrong, then sure, they will be able to avoid the second apron next year, which would definitely open things up for them for another year, which would be very nice.
“I hate to be Joe Pessimist…”
lol, please…
“…the team really isn’t that “exciting.” They play a pre-modern offense, featuring a ton of iso, not a lot of ball movement, and a very slow pace. One of their two front-line guys does stupid, low IQ stuff on a regular basis, is indifferent about defense, and prone to whining. The coach is a stubborn older dude stuck in his ways.”
This is mostly fair, and is an opinion that most of us share to one degree or another. But at the same time, winning is in and of itself exciting. Nearly everyone here is stoked when we win, no matter how we do it. Long-suffering fans shut down 7th avenue when we finally won a playoff game, and were over the moon when we won a playoff series. And now they are actually expecting to win mostly every night, and for good reason…they’re good! I feel sorry for you and for anyone who claims to be a Knicks fan for whom that doesn’t qualify as exciting enough to get past “style of play” or “type of rebuild” issues that fans have no control over.
That’s not saying that one shouldn’t be critical of those things. But relentlessly harping on it when everyone knows how you feel a million times over, and then spouting things like “I hate to be Joe Pessimist…” goes well beyond rational skepticism about the team, its coach, and its FO.
I am not the biggest fan of comparing modern players versus players from completely different eras. The game, styles, and stats are completely different. Different eras played faster, slower, more physical, etc., and this all effects stats a lot. I think the comparison between best players should be compared with their peers not people from a completely different game. I think in lots of sports, players from the past get discounted, and a lot of modern players are just placed ahead of them.
https://twitter.com/SbondyNBA/status/1733174750539583953?s=19
You tell them RJ!
Spotrac says that their 2024-25 active luxury tax is $150,368,612, without IQ, iHart and the picks. Is that not right? If it’s wrong, then sure, they will be able to avoid the second apron next year, which would definitely open things up for them for another year, which would be very nice.
yeah that is too high it includes fournier’s option they are okay for the second apron for now
In order to raise the ceiling without paying full-on high retail, they’re going to have to take a risk. I see no indication either Leon or Thibs want to do that.
Thanks! Why in the fucking world would they include a club option on an “Active Roster Cap” list?!?!
But that’s great to hear. Then yeah, they’re cool with the second apron next season, which gives Leon some much needed time to move.
Grimes also made marginally more 2p/36 on a higher %. Your criticism was always his 2pm skills and Bridges was the counterexample.
Grimes was a good player last year and was hitting 39% of his 3s before the wrist injury this year.
He’s still been terrible overall this year with a slightly lower usage and worse peripherals even before the recent cold streak. If that continues he’s not a starter. If his career 3p% is closer to 36% and his PoA defense drops off, then he’s not a rotation player at all.
I used the information available at the time and I’ll stand by it. Maybe I overreacted to a fluke, sometimes I’m wrong.
But we’re also jumping on him for a 7 game cold streak following a wrist injury.
“It’s also the exact same take I have had for years, and that I get constantly flamed for: it sure would be nice sometime to try a ground-up rebuild that focuses on asset collection over marginal wins, because that kind of rebuild has a higher upside and is a better path to actual contention.”
I think “constantly flamed for” is an overstatement. I mean, I want the same things you want! The only two posters who beg to differ are Strat (and even he is sort of guarded) and Swifty (and with him it’s more about pissing in the punchbowl of the most fun party we’ve been to in years.)
Most of the “flaming” is about why it’s necessary to repeat ad nauseum that one wishes that things were different, even when they have zero chance of being different any time soon….especially when things are turning out better than one expected.
“it turns out that it’s kinda frustrating getting surpassed by teams that have built in the way that some of us have been advocating for decades.”
But we’ve been surpassed by teams that have NOT done those things as well! And we have surpassed teams that HAVE done those things. This team is not getting surpassed because of a particular rebuilding strategy. It is getting surpassed because they passed over the likes of Spida, Mikal, SGA, and Hali in the draft and instead picked Frank, Knox and Obi. We can rehash to whole draft-day trades stuff but it’s drops of spilt milk compared to giant puddles.
And yet still, here we are, one big move away from being a legit contender, and with a collection of assets and a contract/cap situation that make such a move at least theoretically possible.
AND we have a situation where if a guy like Ainge or Presti took over, they’d be drooling about possibilities. I agree it’s frustrating that Leon is not one of those guys, but he isn’t. Case closed. Let’s move on with what we have and what is possible.
More than a midrange game, Grimes first needs to figure out how to change pace or slow down.
He does the RJ missile to the rim thing, which makes it difficult to adjust your finish or make a secondary read after the defense collapses.
He probably can’t even manage much of a midrange game right now because he has too much rimward momentum. He’s tried a couple pull-ups but looks very off-balance.
I believe that includes Fournier’s $19M team option as he’s technically on the roster.
I believe they were hardcapped from using the MLE on DiVo this year. They couldnt sign him and keep Obi without leaving open bench spots and giving up all wiggle room in trades.
His trade value would’ve tanked this year anyway
That’s so weird, though, right? How do you include a club option as being on the “Active roster cap”?
“…in his defense he did attempt the most audaciously panglossian dunk since bargs.”
I remember being incredulous on the game thread when he tried that! It was so nonsensical that it suggested to me that he is so far in his own head that he needed an intervention. Hopefully this emotional outburst will serve that purpose.
Getting furious that people have some qualms with a good-not-great, second round ceiling team is hilarious. Swifty my man, r/nyknicks is always right there.
I was more excited at the beginning of the season when it looked like RJ Barrett might not stink. That would’ve been a material positive development that would’ve changed both our present ceiling and our ability to further improve.
Now that he’s stinking again I definitely can understand if a sense of staleness is setting in for people. We didn’t make a draft pick, we have a pretty good sense of where we’ll end up by season’s end, and there don’t seem to be any spicy trade prospects on the table.
This kind of predictability is a blast when you’re a contender (I’m assuming, wouldn’t know from personal experience). Much less so when you’re first-to-second round playoff team.
That said, it’s fun enough to be playing meaningful games every night and I enjoy the team stylistically–we have a few different “modes” depending on lineups, which is kind of unique and cool.
There are also still some other things I’m keeping my eye on–can IQ take another leap? Can Brunson force his way into the all-NBA discussion? Can we get Mitch on an all-defensive team?
But Leon is definitely on the clock. There’s of course the looming second apron, but maybe even more importantly there’s the fact that we’re at risk of being lapped by the OKCs and Orlandos of the world. They’ve collected so much talent we’ve got no chance to hold them off with more incremental upgrades. Leon was hired to reel in the big fish and he’s gotta do it soon.
It’s just hard to sympathize a whole lot with Grimes when this is literally the same starting lineup he was in last year. Maybe there have been some schematic changes that have further marginalized him, but that seems unlikely given that there have been zero personnel changes.
I don’t think Thibs or anyone else would get mad at him for attacking closeouts, occasionally handling the ball in the PNR, cutting, etc. All the stuff he did last year that put him on the map, basically. If he thinks he can take and make more shots, he really ought to go right ahead and do so. It’s not like he was ever under the impression he’d be a primary ball handler, he was always going to have to play off others.
DDV went from “redundant” to “we’d be so fucked without him” real quick huh?
Spotrac is a great resource but a lot of their summed totals are annoyingly difficult to parse.
It’d be great if they added some more interactive functionality to choose who to exercise/renounce.
They did add a manage roster tool that’s in beta but it only works for the current season and requires you to go to a different page.
Randle passing shoutout in Lowe’s Ten Things: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/39057886/lowe-lakers-pels-post-ad-randle-new-snappiness-giannis-dominant
He’s also higher on our current ceiling than many here, myself included.
“That said, it’s fun enough to be playing meaningful games every night and I enjoy the team stylistically–we have a few different “modes” depending on lineups, which is kind of unique and cool.”
I mentioned that we went full-bore uptempo even with our slowish starters vs. the Bucks and it kind of backfired because a) they didn’t fucking miss from 3, and b) we seemed sort of gassed in the second half. That was clearly a strategic decision, and it suggests that Thibs wanted to shake things up so as not to be predictable. Will we try it again? Who knows?
“But Leon is definitely on the clock.”
Is he? Whose clock? Dolan’s? If not, it doesn’t really matter, does it?
“There’s of course the looming second apron”
See above.
“there’s the fact that we’re at risk of being lapped by the OKCs and Orlandos of the world.”
OKC is in the West. Orlando is hardly lapping us. As to the Magic:
“They’ve collected some nice talent but we can likely hold them off with more incremental upgrades.”
fify
“Leon was hired to reel in the big fish and he’s gotta do it soon.”
That’s not why Leon was hired. Stop saying it because it is untrue. I’m sure that Dolan is very happy with the job that Leon is doing thus far, and will continue to be if the team keeps winning, whether he reels in the big fish or not.
this is what i’m talking about… the difference between mikal bridges shooting 33% vs grimes 38% was… 13 3pt’ers… the difference between mikal bridges shooting grimes 2pt fg% was 23 2pt’ers…
you’re weighing his one year and those 30 some odd baskets over EVERYTHING else… where they couldn’t have been more different both in style.. and results…
you’re pointing at a cloud that looks like a sailboat and saying that we’re getting invaded by space pirates… if you just start thinking about what is the truth vs just proving me wrong… you’ll start doing this a lot better….
zach lowe amongst the rest of the media also happened to love our 2021 offseason…
much like jim cramer and most of the take meister’s… they just have too many of them to rely on as an authority since they probably only think about it as long as it takes for them to say it….
agree with DJ that Lowe’s stuff is losing efficacy..he’s just another face in the espn crowd now…but if some don’t have access…here are some snippits:
He’s still stopping the ball a bit too much; Randle is averaging almost 16 isolations per 100 possessions, behind only Luka Doncic and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, and the Knicks are scoring only 0.883 points out of those plays, per Second Spectrum. (Doncic and Gilgeous-Alexander are both well over 1.1 points.)
Randle is a smart passer when defenses converge, and he’s in the middle of maybe the best passing month of his career. He’s dishing earlier, ahead of defensive rotations, and he’s less predictable picking his targets.
The Knicks are bringing out Randle’s passing by running more pick-and-rolls for him — almost 11 per 100 possessions, well above his career high of 7.5, per Second Spectrum. That gives Jalen Brunson more chances in a spot-up role to jack 3s, or roast defenders who sprint at him.
The Knicks’ bench changes games. New York’s brass has been careful not to overreach pursuing high-wattage names. It should stay patient. This team is really good as is, and hasn’t reached its ceiling. If one or two variables break right, it could make the conference finals.
Yawn. The second apron can’t be wished away, sorry. Yes, we can avoid it by depleting our current talent pool and thus widening the gap between us and contender status. Whop-dee-god-damn-doo.
Leon Rose, who had zero front office experience whatsoever when he was hired, was obviously brought in with the idea that his relationships around the league would help the Knicks attract star players. This has been reported on extensively, and is also common sense. He wasn’t brought in to oversee a rebuild, obviously, so by definition he was going to have to bring in star players to succeed.
It’s funny that the banal, correct take on Leon, i.e. that he has notable successes for which he deserves credit, but has yet to prove he can overcome the flaws inherent to his larger strategy, is the one that draws the most ire around here because it pisses off both the hate boner crowd and the Defend Leon At All Costs crowd. I’m sorry I refuse to pick one of these stupid “teams” and that holistic analysis of an NBA team is in fact complicated.
Doogie out there racing in the streets 🙂
sounds like you’re very much enjoying the romance…awwwww, that’s so cool…
stay safe, have fun doogie, thinking of you:
Now some guys they just give up living
And start dying little by little, piece by piece
Some guys come home from work and wash up
And go racin’ in the street
Lowe is now a nobody at ESPN because he praises the Knicks so he must not be that smart anymore…
It is true that Grimes had a substantially similar, and slightly better, age 22 season to Bridges. It’s also true that young players tend to improve.
Was Grimes on the same trajectory as Bridges, highly unlikely. Is it ridiculous for a young player to add more to his game? No, it’s a baseline assumption that can turn out false.
You’re trying to turn my stance into something it wasn’t.
I don’t give a crap about your opinion except that it’s often a crap opinion despite your holier-than-thou attitude. Leave your armchair psych degree at home.
Noble, I don’t think you’re wrong, but I also don’t think Z-Man is wrong when he says “I’m sure that Dolan is very happy with the job that Leon is doing thus far, and will continue to be if the team keeps winning, whether he reels in the big fish or not.”
It has always felt that Dolan only really cares about the zillions of dollars falling into his pockets, along with not being embarrassed. The first happened consistently over the last 20 years despite suckitude of the Nth degree, and it never felt that Dolan cared at all about the suckitude. Leon is unlikely to embarrass anyone because he appears to sleep 22 hours a day and likely just eats frosted donuts the other two. So I agree he’s pretty safe.
Not from your ire, which may well be justified. Just recognize that it’s you and some other fans that are irked.
Dolan wants playoff gates for his public shareholders.
Thibs wants a roster of guys who he likes to work with, whose styles and personalities he favors, who won’t cause him any headaches or angina in his advancing years, and who will win enough to give Dolan playoff gates and keep the paychecks coming.
Leon has served both interests impeccably.
Now — if you’re a fan who wants to see the team contend for and win championships, you don’t really have the same goals as the owner or the coach, and indirectly the GM.
That’s where things stand. I don’t see them really changing.
They usually did it. For cap space, and tax purposes, it makes no sense to include money that is optional. I was also surprised that they are including Fournier’s money for 2024-25.
i mean everyone to a man on kb hated the nba media because of how much hate the knicks got.. deservedly.. in the past… now everyone’s super smart for recognizing the genius of all these moves…
like no.. nba media.. more than anyone else.. is too busy working their brand… working their sources… and churning out takes and content than having any sort of meaningful analysis… whatever thoughtfulness and genius you thought your favorite nba personality had… it’s long gone the last 5 years…
and zach lowe is the poster child of that… he more than anyone knows how much lineup data is unreliable in small samples… and has led to many using it much in the way he does… to erroneously support whatever hot take he had…. not everything he does is terrible of course.. some of it is thoughtful or used to be thoughtful.. but it’s mostly drowned out by the lazy and rushed takes he’s forced to churn out…. if you forced anyone to have an opinion on everything it would be equally diluted by anyone dumb or smart…
which is what’s wrong with media today… that’s just a byproduct of 24 hr news coverage…. and it’s impossible to have authorities on anything.. you shouldn’t rely on zach lowe for opinions no more than you do stephen a smith or sean hannity….
no it is exactly right.. that you continue to think that they have a substantially similar age 22 year and continue to weigh that more than anything else is just one example….
if you think you just got unlucky.. then you must think you are the most unlucky person in the world with how often it happens…
give it a rest BBA…i know you like to twist shit around but I never said he was a nobody…just that he seems to have done what most do when they join disney and just spew because that is in there contract…..i think he does it alot on non NY knicks stuff as well but i’m sure you’re right on top of that as well…
oops…see dj beat me to the punch …
If my math is right, for next season we have 129.3M on guaranteed contracts (Randle, RJ, Brunson, Hart, Mitch, Divo, Grimes) and then we have 4.4M on non-guaranteed/options (Sims, Deuce). 133.7M in total for 9 players. Even if Quick signs for 25M and iHart for 12M, we’ll only get to 170.7M for the same 11 players we are playing this season. Tax is projected to come at 172M so we’d probably be a tax paying team (because you can’t have only 11 players), but 2nd apron is projected to come at 190M so still some room before reaching it.
We don’t have to worry about the second apron next season, it’s the one after in which we’ll either hit it or have to make moves to duck it because we’ll have to re-sign Brunson. Unless, of course, everything is just fine because we can simply let Jalen Brunson walk for nothing.
I think part of the issue with Grimes is that Brunson is taking more than 2 more threes a game than last season- he’s more likely to take a three himself than swing the ball on kick-outs than he was last year. Grimes isn’t Frank- if he has an open shot he shoots. He just never touches the ball unless it’s to dump it into Randle. Brunson’s great but if you’re relying on him to get other people involved you can forget it- he’s a terrific scorer but a poor playmaker. I’m all for getting Grimes some minutes with the second unit where he might get more touches but the clock is ticking- if he can’t snap out of it by year’s end the bench looms.
What is the appropriate amount of weight to give it and how much weight did I in fact give to it?
My stance has been that Grimes had a very good year last year and that he could get better. For the 3rd time in this thread, I was not projecting Grimes to be the next Mikal Bridges.
Young players get better. This is the statement you’re arguing with.
Still waiting for how you square Grimes being a guaranteed bum with Donte being a bad signing. Please, I really want to hear this.
i already said it in this thread and many times before…
like why do you think i’ve been talking about the minutes distribution for the hundred or so times i brought it up which i was supposedly told would never ever be a problem and that jalen brunson would win a dunk contest before grimes got buried…. and that this was completely and utterly different than getting 5 power forwards….
people losing minutes in and of itself causes friction…. people who are looking for their next contract are losing substantial minutes… that in and of itself will get people whining… either in public or in private… that’s not even factoring in the cannibalization of minutes that mutes whatever impact donte would have….
that’s the problem that seemed to go over the collective heads of kb…. it should now be readily apparent by now i hope…. even tho people actually broke down this exact minutes distribution back then and actually being 100% accurate and be like.. nah we’ll be good…
good lyrics geo…listened to that song many times…didn’t pick up on that verse..
Minutes distribution only matters if Grimes is good and you don’t think he’s good. So… seems like a simple solution, bench Grimes and run everyone else 30mpg
I think it’s funny when people get furious about what they read on an antiquated sports forum that they aren’t being forced to read in the first place.
I also think it’s funny when people get furious about how the antiquated sports team they follow is run when they aren’t being forced to follow that sports team in the first place.
I stopped going on social media during the 2020 election because I didn’t like what I was reading and the CAPS LOCK key was jammed and nothing good was coming from any of it. I never went back.
I also stopped rooting for the Knicks because they were never going to do the things JK and I wanted. I became a Warriors fan and enjoyed the experience. JK became a Clippers fan and a day later returned to the Knicks. He is still wishing the Knicks weren’t the Knicks though.
I always read Lowe’s articles and would listen to his podcast whenever he had JVG on. I’ll definitely take his opinion on any basketball matter over anybody else on this site.
I think most- or at least a lot of us-agree with you. I do. It’s just that we’re not doing that right now.
I’m seeing Spotrac listing Deuce as a RFA instead of a non-guaranteed deal. So he can theoretically make more if he goes on a hot streak while someone is injured.
We also have two 1sts and two 2nds coming in (but let’s be real there’s a zero percent chance we’re making all those picks).
The 1sts are 20 and 21 right now with 120% rookie scale at $3,359,640 and $3,225,360, respectively.
I think the solution is to let Hartenstein go and see if Sims is ready (I’m skeptical) or use a pick on a C.
You could squeeze it in if IQ ends up closer to $21M, Hartenstein takes an ascending deal starting at $10M, you trade a 1st and sign 3 min deals or even leave the 15th spot empty early in the season. It won’t happen but it’s there. Idk, that’s why you employ Brock Aller I guess.
You can’t root for the team we should have forever. You can only engage in counterfactuals and alternate histories for so long, even on Web 2.0.
I am concerned about Grimes also. I kind of wonder how much relates to the wrist. My sense is that this will resolve itself naturally but it’s a rough patch for sure.
jon abbey used to say that I can’t change my teams because I apparently signed a blood oath to always support the Knicks
You’re right, but it’s worth noting he has the opposite issue in free agency, where he’s trigger happy and impulsive.
There was nothing about Evan Fournier or Kemba Walker, for instance, that screamed “perfect.” Same with DDV.
He sits around waiting for the perfect trade or the perfect draft pick, then free agency rolls around and suddenly it’s like black friday and damn the consequences he’s buying a new TV that he doesn’t need because it’s on sale.
You’re right. I forgot he was a 2nd round pick and is on a 3 year contract. I thought it was a mistake and his money was the 4th year of the usual rookie contract, but yeah it’s the qualifying offer. I think between iHart maybe getting less than the 12M i projected or Deuce/Sims getting less than the qualifying offer/non-guaranteed money, we’ll probably fill out the roster below the tax. Which makes sense, because paying the tax without making changes would be less than ideal.
I agree with your suggestions. And we can have the last 3 spots filled with players on non-guaranteed money, and then we waive them and start using the 10-day contracts and stuff like that. I think that’s a way to save money when you’re super close to the tax, but yeah Brock Aller knows more than we’ll ever know (or something like what Strat used to say about Phil 😂), so he’ll find a solution.
Redick. One “D.” Lordy.
That guys like Zach Lowe and similarly respected pundits like the Knicks is really nice. Not objective proof of anything earth-shattering, but really nice.
Zach Lowe is an excellent writer. This is the line y’all are fussing about:
That’s how a good writer says something that means nothing to endear himself to his readers who are Knicks fans. It’s like something from a Dale Carnegie book.
I’m sure he, like everyone else, expects the Celtics to be in the ECF against either Milwaukee or Philadelphia. “One or two variables” could stand for “if Giannis breaks his back again and Jalen Brunson shoots 80% from the floor for a week.”
Nothing to get worked up about.
“Leon Rose, who had zero front office experience whatsoever when he was hired, was obviously brought in with the idea that his relationships around the league would help the Knicks attract star players. This has been reported on extensively, and is also common sense. He wasn’t brought in to oversee a rebuild, obviously, so by definition he was going to have to bring in star players to succeed.”
Wait, you’re the guy who insists on being exactly quoted. You said, and I quote: “Leon was hired to reel in the big fish and he’s gotta do it soon.” As such, please show me where James Dolan said “I am hiring Leon Rose to land a superstar, and if he doesn’t, I don’t care what else he does or doesn’t do or how well the team does. It’s land the big fish or he’s a failure.” If you can’t find that, don’t get so bent out of shape when folks draw inferences from the things that you say.
Doogie is alive and well. 😀
I am howling at the idea that one cannot make this inference, that has also been widely reported on, absent a direct quote from James Dolan.
I mean, is your take that Leon Rose was not hired with the idea of attracting star talent? I had no idea that was even controversial. What the hell was he hired to do then, deter star talent?
Here’s the kicker–whether this was an explicit directive or not doesn’t really matter, because it’s the only way Leon’s strategy works regardless. The math here isn’t complicated, you need star talent to contend in the NBA and Leon decided early on to forego trying to get star talent through the draft, which is the only avenue there is to get star talent without “attracting” it (I suppose technically the same applies for trades, but we all know that’s not how this works in practice).
Leon has done a good-ish job at getting the roster and asset chest to a place where he can feasibly swing one big trade and have us at least in fringe contention. It’s a real accomplishment for which he deserves credit.
He also chose a strategy that takes the availability of such a final move completely out of his hands. We just have to hope one arises before the CBA combined with our own roster finances makes one unfeasible.
The Ohtani free agency reports are becoming more ludicrous than when LeBron chose Miami.
You specifically said “the clock is ticking.” Please explain what that means in relation to your statement about why Dolan hired Leon.
(spoiler alert: You can’t. It’s your self-serving timeline, not Dolan’s.)
Ohtani is going to, uh, Toronto? Okay, I guess!
On the one hand I’m glad he’s (apparently) staying in the AL and not going to the Dodgers, but on the other hand this means the Dodgers are probably going to get into the bidding on Yamamoto.
Ohtani and Soto in the same division. Damn.
Toronto makes a lot of sense for the kind of person Ohtani seems to be. I admire the decision. And it will be nice to revive the dormant rivalry with the Blue Jays.
The AL East is going to be a bloodbath. Can we please unbalance the schedules now?
Not saying it’s a major difference, but because you do this so often it’s pretty funny that my actual words were “on the clock.” The next time you quote me accurately will be the first.
Anyway, I have no problem defending the proposition that Leon Rose is in fact “on the clock” when it comes to making a major move. Our players are getting older and more expensive, our competition is getting better, and it’s not like we can duck the second apron forever and still remain competitive. This kind of move gets harder with time.
I mean what are you even arguing, that there is no urgency whatsoever to take the next step? Is that something you’re actually willing to defend explicitly, or are you only willing to needle people who subscribe to the radical notion that the NBA is an arms race?
I’m arguing that living in a perpetual state of panic based on silly inferences is pretty much your thing.
And no, I’m not an “arms race” kind of guy. This is sports, not international affairs.
Currently in the NBA:
– Detroit Pistons 2-19, on a 18-games losing streak
– San Antonio Spurs 3-17, on a 15-games losing streak
– Washington Wizards 3-17, 1-12 in the last 13 games (they beat the Pistons)
The league did a great job to discourage tanking, yessir…
Breaking News:
DDV’s starting tonight, Grimes will come from the bench.
Just came here to say that, Max.
Hooo boy…
Nice to see the change although I feel bad for Quentin. Hopefully he’ll get a chance to do more with the second unit and that will help him get his mojo back
Max the Pistons are trying to win, at least. The Spurs are really young and the Wizards are tanking the shit out of the season.
Between Donte’s swagger, his ability to move and cut and JB guaranteeing his Nova pal hs fair share, my O/U for DDV’s shots in the 1st quarter is 3.5 and he could be low…
The Spurs are deliberately avoiding to play Wemby with Tre Jones because their +/- together is too good (the Hoops Collective Podcast did a nice job mocking them for this) 🙂
They’re young, they correctly think that Wemby alone is not enough, better take another top-3 bite at the apple, and Pop executes it perfectly.
And, with this rules, they’re right!
Ironically, tanking may be an even better strategy now than before the flattening of the odds, simply by creating a perception among some that tanking is less valuable. This leads to fewer teams tanking, which raises the effectiveness of tanking for the teams that still pursue it.
One universal truth will never change: the distribution of basketball player value is extremely top-heavy and the best way to get a bargain on super-elite talent is via the draft. Without the draft such talent is not just extremely expensive, but often unavailable at any price.
It follows that tanking will always be optimal as long as it gives a substantial advantage in getting the most valuable assets in the game, and there is no question it still does.
Who is the guy worth tanking for a 14% chance at this year?
I don’t know and eagerly defer to our in-house experts…
I don’t believe Dolan doesn’t care about winning. He does come to some games and when the TV shows him there he looks focused on the game in a way that makes it clear he’s a fan.
We don’t know that ahead of time, no more than we knew Tyrese Haliburton or Steph Curry were worth tanking for a 14% chance at a few years back.
What we do know is that the chances of finding generational superstars go up dramatically at the highest draft slots, and this is the only way to get those people on value contracts. By giving ourselves multiple bites at the apple we are fairly likely to get one or more lucky outcomes.
It’s uncertain, but the payoff for this is absolutely astronomical and can set a team up for decades. Our #3 pick a few years back was RJ, an absolute bust. Just one year prior it was Doncic, who is already a top 5 player. If we had just given ourselves more good chances, we’d likely have players like Hali and Doncic instead of RJ and the bag of chips we got for Obi Toppin.
This really isn’t hard to understand, and arguments against it tend to rely on the kind of sophistry and willful blindness evident in your retort.