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Knicks Bulletin: ‘Very talented kid. Super gifted’ – Posting & Toasting
Jordan Clarkson re-signing with Knicks on one-year deal – SNY
Will the Knicks Add Another Backup Center? Stream of National Basketball Association – CBS Sports
Tuesday Posted & Toasted Notes: Summer dubs, Dadiet’s admission, Euronews – Posting & Toasting
Recently waived Jonas Valanciunas among centers on Knicks’ radar – SNY
Why Brunson Isn’t Your Typical NBA Star #nba #shorts – Knicks Fan TV
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148 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2026.07.15)”
Actually I think he might be. At least in the modern era.
There are many instances where another team will go way over market value to poach a player on a championship deal, and you can’t match the offer because it would be bad for the roster.
And there are many instances where a champion lets a pricey veteran go because they have a young player coming up they think is better.
But those are both GM-level decisions.
This might be the first time in my life a sports owner told his GM to make his championship roster materially worse for no good reason other than to save himself money.
It’s definitely the first time it happened in modern basketball. The Tyson Chandler thing was idiotic, but Cuban wasn’t pinching pennies — he had a cockamamie dream about getting Dwight Howard.
It’s a real kick in the balls, particularly when Dolan’s only redeeming trait was his willingness to spend.
This is where i’m at too.
Dolan should just have paid Mitch on the side for planting trees. Or, I don’t know, he could have invested in his truck business or whatever.
I’m half serious, given the Gary Trent Jr contract.
Obviously, the Mitch thing is a big deal, everybody has a right to vent, take their time processing, etc. I will not tell anybody to stop posting about it, even though it bums me out that it’s the majority of the conversation, slightly over a month after THE KNICKS WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP.
So let me try to also inject some positivity in here. I usually watch action movies (or ER/Pitt episodes) on the treadmill, but lately, I’ve been watching official Knicks playoff highlights, and a couple of compilation films I’ve found on YouTube or social media. I’m always on the lookout for the latter group, along the lines of this one: https://youtu.be/IuE7IctilWA?is=hWFpuN-q9QcmpjjH
If any of you have favorites in this vein, I’d appreciate a link or 12.
Along that vein, do they still make official championship videos?
I currently have a library of the following official championship videos in formats I am incapable of utilizing:
VHS – 1990 Giants, 1994 Rangers, 1996 Yankees
DVD – 1998, 1999, 2000 Yankees
Blu Ray – 2007 Giants, 2009 Yankees, 2011 Giants
Another reason the hemorrhaging of our best bench player keeps coming up is because if it’s really the case that we can never go into the second apron, that has enormous implications for team-building moving forward!
Whatever your opinions on how long our window is (and one of the admirable qualities of the front office IMO was that I previously thought it was a bona fide 3-4 seasons) should be significantly shortened in light of that particular update.
Macri’s newsletter today discusses the second-apron related math regarding our ability to keep Deuce and, spoiler alert, if the second-apron is a “never under any circumstances” situation, we’re going to lose another good player, and quite possibly, again, for nothing.
The championship put me on cloud nine and I have mountains of merch to prove it. But this Dolan imposed shit sucks.
Any significant decline in the Knick’s SRS this year is way more likely to be related to injuries and/or other teams in the east being much better than out loss of Mitch. Indiana, Chicago, Miami, Washington, Toronto, the 76ers, Orlando and others should all be better. Virtually every team in the east got better except the Bucks. Even the Celtics are better than last year. Tatum is better than Brown and they added George and Mitch.
My estimate is that the loss of Mitch will cost us between .5 – 1.0 off our SRS relative to Drummond. So we have to make that up and MORE with a full year of Alvarado, internal development, continuing to enhance our use of Towns and the trade we ultimately make for another C.
I think Deuce will be easier to keep than most people think, and I’ll tell you why:
1. There are two contracts we can renegotiate next summer: KAT and Hart. That gives Brock much more flexibility than he had this summer. I think Hart, in particular, will be very easy to work with.
2. I don’t think the market for Deuce is going to be as robust as people think. He’s an extremely niche player.
3. We’ll easily be able to move Landry Shamet if we really need to. If anything, I think this might be the last year we can have Deuce and Landry, and we may be forced to choose. But I don’t see Deuce’s exit as a fait accompli.
I feel a little bad for Landry on a personal level. He took a team friendly deal to stick around and he’ll probably end up getting moved because of it.
If they believe a Brunson lead team has more than a 4 year run in it (other pieces may change along the way), imo they probably didn’t want to go over the second apron so soon and handicap themselves badly in the future in terms of trades and more importantly badly damaged 1st round picks. They wanted to delay it.
IMHO, they may have made a calculation that the downsides of going over so soon were greater than downside of losing Mitch.
IMO they WILL go over the 2nd apron eventually as long as the team remains competitive at the highest level and a much more important and reliable player is involved.
This view suggests that it wasn’t just Dolan that didn’t want to go over (at least some others didn’t also) and what we are being fed from the press is not fully accurate. I believe that to be the case. Dolan is just taking all the heat because it was his final decision and he doesn’t mind being the bad guy.
Agreed with this. Katz and others have said he wants to have a Michael Strahan-esque media career when he’s done playing. Staying in New York, for the team on which he won an immortal championship, will have much more long-term benefit for that dream than trying to squeeze out extra dollars.
As far as long-term goes, I feel like the starter we will eventually move either before or after he gets a new contract is OG. Guy is incredible, the skeleton key who unlocks things on both ends, etc. But he also wants top dollar, has had injury issues, and his game depends much more on speed and explosion than Brunson or KAT’s do. So he’s riskier to pay a max in his 30s than they are.
ETA: Great. Now I’m the one talking about the eventual breakup of the championship core.
The intent of the 2nd apron is to make governors extremely reluctant to go into it. That implies that they would rather sacrifice players than go into it.
Seems like the 2nd apron is working quite well in accomplishing what it was intended to accomplish…creating a virtual hard cap without using hard cap language that would be not fly with the NBPA.
So no matter what NBA team one happens to root for, the probability that a governor would rather lose a good player for a pittance or nothing is almost a certainty, even if that team is a contender or a defending champions.
The “virtual” hard cap is also causing players to reconsider their salary demands, and is causing governors/front offices to reconsider their negotiating strategy, as outlined in the article posted the other day. A lot of what will happen with the Knicks going forward (and I would disagree with Strat, and until the day that Dolan says that he is willing to let Leon go into the second apron…check that, until the day that Leon actually makes a deal that goes into the second apron….check that, until it becomes a certainty the Knicks are still above the second apron when a season is finished, I am going to assume that this decree is not going away) will depend on extension negotiations, first with KAT and Josh, and then with the other starters.
While I have no hard evidence for it, I am also going to assume that if Dolan does agree to allow Leon to go into the second apron, it is not going to be based on retaining anyone but a front-line starter, possibly only Brunson himself. Dolan probably views bench players, particularly those who average less than 20 mpg and less than 14 mpg in the playoffs, as non-vital and replaceable in relation to luxury taxes and apron penalties. He’s simply not capable of understanding such things on a sophisticated level.
LeBron might be waiting until the World Cup is over before making his announcement. He wants to be in the A-block of all the shows. He probably would have been, anyway, but in this way of thinking he might just want to be assured of it.
😊
So far we’ve seen the governors of Boston, Cleveland, Phoenix, and OKC choose to go over the second apron to avoid losing a player for a pittance or nothing.
We’ve seen some governors force their GMs to make moves to get under the luxury tax line. But those teams were all facing repeater tax bills in the range of $200-$500M.
James Dolan is the first and only governor to force his GM to lose a player for nothing to get under the second apron.
“ I’ve been watching official Knicks playoff highlights, and a couple of compilation films I’ve found on YouTube or social media.”
Christmas 1970, my sister’s gift to me was “The Incredible Knicks” by Phil Pepe (I think he was beat writer). A book on this season by an esteemed writer, incorporating modern media, might be a good gift for me this year. Especially if I have a small link to its author…
I’m still confused by the two H(h)uberts—the Mitch dunking over Embiid (sigh) Hubert, and the goat/sheep hubert.
It’s really hard to change your avatar, Doogie, so I had to set up a second account to get this glorious image of Embiid getting punked.
One account is autosaved on my phone, the other is autosaved on my laptop, and I haven’t been bothered enough to address that.
LOL
So wait. Your argument here is that the Knicks didn’t want to go into the second apron because they value first round picks?
That’s quite a take.
We are 3 years into the apron era. Boston, Cleveland, and Phoenix went into it and it blew up in their faces. Now only OKC is still in it, and that may be only temporarily due to their outlier advantages.
OKC is going to have some tough decisions to make before too long, too. It makes me feel only slightly happier to know that we’re not the only ones dealing with this shit. (OK, we’re the only ones dealing with Dolan specifically, but the ownership in Phoenix and Cleveland isn’t generally highly regarded/beloved by their fanbases, either.)
The steel man case for losing Mitch for nothing for “basketball reasons” boils down to the idea that it’s worth taking step back in Brunson’s age 30 season to ensure we can keep some semblance of the team together in his age 31, 32, and so on seasons.
It just doesn’t resonate at all with me, as I think it contravenes basically everything we know about the NBA.
We knew with 100% certainty that the option to keep together a championship winning team existed in the here and now. We knew the core players were in their primes and healthy. We knew exactly what the competitive landscape was, because we can see what all of the other teams are doing in real time.
We passed on that opportunity, and if the apologists are to be believed, it’s because we preferred to spread the investment out to ensure it covered seasons in which none of that certainty exists.
I’m not breaking any news when I say that things change extremely fast in the NBA, and these changes do sadly often include players in their 30s becoming worse. 2026-2027 just does not strike one as a season in which this particular Knicks team should take its foot off the gas pedal.
“The “virtual” hard cap is also causing players to reconsider their salary demands, and…”
Consider me slow since I never thought of it this way. Was assuming Dunce-Dolan had to have heard the term suicidal from someone else, with the likely candidate Leon last year when describing his strategy of keeping flexibility rather than spend,spend,spend. But perhaps it was at a Governors meeting to ratify the CBA, likening the second apron to a hard cap because it would be suicidal to exceed it.
The Knicks value future first round picks as trade bait.
One of the reasons why the next lost Mitch for nothing is that they didn’t offer him an extension when he was extension eligible, nor did they trade him while they still could. OKC didn’t lose Andrew Wiggins or Isaiah Joe for nothing because they traded them before that could happen.
It actually worked very well for Boston and Cleveland.
The Celtics won 60 games and finished 2nd in the East while over the apron. The Cavs made the ECF and are about to opt in for a second straight year of being over the second apron.
Most observers think it was Phoenix’ decision to trade for Bradley Beal that blew up in their face, not the second apron penalties.
Dolan is a fucking idiot and there’s no amount of media training that can shove enough savvy up his arse to warrant putting him in front of a microphone for any reason ever again. He should just be ultra-rich and enjoy it. I’ve heard it’s a good time. Yay you won the lottery. Saying the second apron bit out loud is just the fucking dumbest. Now he’s gone from being the Master into the First Evil and Msg is turning into the Hellmouth. We’re still fucking champions for one season.
“We passed on that opportunity, and if the apologists are to be believed, it’s because we preferred to spread the investment out to ensure it covered seasons in which none of that certainty exists.”
Who exactly are the apologists? Seems like not a single poster here is on board with what Dolan did.
I wouldn’t call you an apologist, but when you say things like it is “almost a certainty” every team governor would make the same choice, it kinda reads a little bit like, as Brian would put it, “Ack-shually, it WASN’T a bad move.”
there’s the process of it, and then there are the results…
you can have a shitty process and still get good results…just more difficult that way and much more reliant on good fortune…
very real possibility that not signing mitch some how some way ends up working out in our favor…
And for the record, three team governors faced the same decision this year: New York, Cleveland, OKC. Two of the three chose to go over the second apron instead of losing their player for nothing. So you’re not just defending the position, you’re actively distorting facts to make the position seem normal when it isn’t.
“It actually worked very well for Boston and Cleveland.”
I don’t think Celtics fans think things worked out “very well” after getting utterly humiliated in the second round by a hated rival, then first round by another hated rival, and then trading away a franchise cornerstone to one of those hated rivals for a skimpy return. Or Cleveland fans are all that happy with getting swept in humiliating fashion by a team under the second apron.
“Most observers think it was Phoenix’ decision to trade for Bradley Beal that blew up in their face, not the second apron penalties.”
The two issues go hand-in-hand. They made a decision to go over, and now, in order to get back under, they have $22M of dead cap on their books for the next 4 years.
None of these 3 teams have sniffed the finals since going over, including the championship team that ran it back. None are considered serious contenders this coming year.
“I wouldn’t call you an apologist, but when you say things like it is “almost a certainty” every team governor would make the same choice, it kinda reads a little bit like, as Brian would put it, “Ack-shually, it WASN’T a bad move.””
It shouldn’t, and I would remind you that no one objects to having their words purposely misrepresented more loudly than you or TNFH. Practice what you preach.
I think we have to be careful with the extensions we give Hart and KAT next off-season. I love Hart and all the heart he brings, and all the intangibles. I love KAT too. Both as a player and person. Connecting with others who lost people, and talking about grief. But with all that said, I think we need to be realistic about what type of contract they should get. They will be aging, and leaving their primes.
“So you’re not just defending the position, you’re actively distorting facts to make the position seem normal when it isn’t.”
You mean like saying that Cleveland is over the second apron when they aren’t?
And if you willingly choose to ignore why OKC is a terrible comparison because they are an extreme outlier with a POBO that was years ahead of his time, that is also distorting facts.
Thought experiment:
What if everything had happened with Mitch in exactly the way it did, except for the part where Dolan made any statements at all regarding how he felt about the second apron? How would we feel if it, you know, just kind of *happened* that Boston pried Mitch away? (We’d still hate it because it’s Boston, but other than that.)
“We knew with 100% certainty that the option to keep together a championship winning team existed in the here and now.”
No. We did not. Logical conjecture but far from certain.
Speaking of certainty, I’m about 80% certain that there was a baseball all-star game last night, with 27 strikeouts. There’s a reason I don’t pay much attention to that sport anymore (sadly)…
I don’t know raven, even with MLB speeding up the game, it still feels like it’s an all day affair watching a baseball game…
does not easily coincide with my desire for constant scrolling…baseball is just so not instant gratification…
I’m not ignoring it at all.
I wouldn’t call them an “extreme outlier” when there is a team in San Antonio in nearly the same exact position as them, but they both stand apart from the field.
But so do we! We are the NBA champions. By definition, we stand apart from the field, too.
We should be operating as an outlier because we are one. What makes sense for the other 29 teams doesn’t necessarily make sense for us. Orlando, for instance, is under the second apron because they would be idiots not to be. So it’s not very compelling when you point to the field.
Here’s what we know for certain:
-Dolan drew a red line at the second apron.
-Doing so almost guaranteed that Mitch could not be retained.
-Leon signed returners Mo, Shamet, and Alvarado to what most would consider team-friendly (i.i cap-friendly) deals.
-Leon acquired Andre Drummond on a minimum deal “for free”
-Leon signed returner Jordan Clarkson to a minimum deal
-Leon traded out of the 25th draft spot and some second round picks to acquire some additional second round picks and some cash
-Leon made two second-round picks in the draft
-Leon let Huk walk, although he could have been retained while staying under the second apron and running everyone else back except for Mitch and Sochan, who still remains unsigned
Currently there are 13 roster spots filled and $3.27M left in cap space below the second apron.
So the difference between “going all in” by running it back and where we are at the moment is largely the “gap” between Drummond and Mitch (which most of us agree is significant), the gap between Huk and whoever fills the 3rd C position.
So the main question looking ahead is: Now that the milk is spilt, how can Leon further narrow (or eliminate, or invert) the gap between having Mitch and not having Mitch before the playoffs start?
Better, Doogie. Much better.
Although, to be frank, given that the deal was so reasonable and it was the Celtics (whose medical staff is known to be among the best, like ours), we probably would have been able to deduce the reason.
there’s always a spectrum of possibilities with varying degrees of probability attached to them…for just about every situation, I think…
very very easy for folks to get fixated on just one, maybe two, of all those possibilities, often the most distressing…
then build some elaborate (or not) internal narrative to support that very narrow perspective…
that was a good post doogie…well done sir…
people will people though…and, I’m a person too, even being aware of that human tendency doesn’t prevent it from continually occurring…
“But so do we! We are the NBA champions. By definition, we stand apart from the field, too.”
Being the 2025-26 champions has zero bearing on our fortunes in the 2026-27 season. It is now history. Every team starts the following season with a clean slate.
There have been 8 consecutive new champions. No one has won the next year, or even the year after that, whether they stood pat or not. If anything, the recent outcomes suggest that standing pat is not a winning formula. Now, I don’t buy that, but the data is what it is. Hopefully, no one will be insisting that we would have repeated if only Dolan let Leon go over the apron, no matter what happens.
I continue to have concerns about the size of the bench, and the lack of rim protection. KAT did a good job of that in the playoffs, but not sure we can count on that for a full regular season. Think we need some size at both the PF and C position. Not sure we can get both in the off-season, but maybe at some point. I worry if we lose OG (who usually goes down for a few weeks) and MO doesn’t work out, then we are really hurting at PF.
Massive goalpost move right there. Let’s put them back where they were:
at any given point, only 1 or 2 teams should be over the second apron.
OKC is currently one. We are currently another.
It’s not very compelling to point to all the teams that don’t have a real chance to win this year. Not to mention all the teams like San Antonio that can’t even mathematically get there.
Let me throw some thoughts too since the Mitch saga seems to be continued for a looooong looong time as it seems:
Dolan may warned about the 2nd apron but the FO is not exactly Stupid to Not sign *the most game changing player* and let him go for nothing. Or are they?
In other words:
Is it about Dolan’s stupidity & cheapiness or a well designed Front Office’s decision?
Couldn’t they keep Mitch who seems like the Unique weapon and let go or trade the other resignings of the off-season who seem like easier replacable pieces?
Why they chose to let go Mitch?
Did they risk it to sign him cheaply and will regret it in the future?
Doesn’t matter how unique you are, tge team can’t use a single player to replace an entire bench.
They re-signed Alvarado, Clarkson, Diawara, and Shamet for the same amount of salary Mitch got.
So would I rather have Mitch than any one of those players? Quite possibly.
Do I want Mitch enough to only and illegally keep 11 players on the roster? No.
hoping mo comes through…
yeah, maybe a little unreasonable to assume an unheralded second year player can come in at such a low cost and perform well for 15 to 25 minutes each game, for a team competing for a championship…
the feeling is we have a top notch starting crew, decent guard backups and we’ve gone bargain hunting with a backup front court…2 players that’ll need to be out there for 20 minutes a night, and cover for the eventual injury/rest for KAT and OG…
Edit: a big f u to all the auto-correct and formatting bullshit on the android phone and ipad, it’s everywhere…actually, laptop not that bad…
most of that shit seems to really hate how i write…
I think he did as good a job as he possibly could this summer: he brought back whatever he could, and got as good a Mitch replacement as he could have gotten given the constraints.
Now you just wait and see.
We don’t have to eliminate the gap between having Mitch and not having him.. We just have to be better than the league again. I don’t think anyone in the East closed the gap. The only teams we’re measuring ourselves against are the two out west.
FWIW I do think Leon can make a godfather offer for someone like Kel’el Ware or Moussa Diabate. Such a move might even make us a little better than we were last year. But it doesn’t make sense to do that now. That’s something you do after three months of watching.
nice KYN…that really is the point, maybe, just maybe, we didn’t really want mitch…
the mitch story is going to take at least a season to sort out, see how his availability turns out…
It’s a very real and reasonable possibility that the front office doesn’t value Mitch the way most of us do. We LOVE him. They do business with him. It’s also reasonable that they also love him and wanted to do more business with him and Dolan fucked them. It’s also reasonable that internal conversations about the second apron happened, relational to Mitch and otherwise, and Dolan was feeling like a big boy in his big boy moment and just could’t shut the fuck up. And it’s also reasonable that they had a plan to retain Mitch at a lower number than what he was worth and he said no and that they were far enough down the road and then people peopled and the recourse is kinda where we’re at. Huk is not worth more than the vet minimum. The guys we kept outside of Mo are all guys you want on a contending roster if you have the core in place. Nickel can shoot. Brown can coach. Anyone see Madonna at the knockdown center?
That’s my thought too geo…
At least it turned out that they didn’t treat him as “RETAIN AT ALL COSTS#
Dolan may gets the wrath of the fans but seems like the FO decides about the roster and Like it or Not they decided to let Mitch’s uniqueness become green.
Leon Rose vs Boston
The bet is on
Let’s wait & see
I’m with Leon
“FWIW I do think Leon can make a godfather offer for someone like Kel’el Ware or Moussa Diabate. Such a move might even make us a little better than we were last year. But it doesn’t make sense to do that now. That’s something you do after three months of watching.”
FWIW, I personally think that grabbing Ware or Diabate would *definitely* make us better than last year. But of course I can only say that in a vacuum, as I don’t know what pieces we would be subtracting to get one of them. I say throw ’em as many draft picks as we can muster—we don’t use them, anyway (and I’m not kidding).
FWIW I just looked at OKC’s multi-year cap table and I actually think it does not make sense for them to be over the second apron this year. They will likely trade Dort at some point to get under it this year.
Still don’t think that has any bearing on whether the Knicks should be under it.
Each team has a unique point where it makes sense for them, and this was our point.
I could totally see a situation where some folks are sitting, talking work, eating, and wes simply saying: you know jim, they hate you already, how ’bout you take one for the ring and say some silly second apron shit…and, ah, we’ll just move forward with trying to acquire this young rim protecting, rebound grabbing, screen setting center, who can shoot free throws at a respectable rate…and who plays on back to backs…gonna get you another ring for it jim…
yeah, that the ticket…
I feel like OKC acted similarly to the Knicks? Trading away Wiggins and Joe probably made them a little worse for next season (not as much as by losing Mitch, to be clear, but a little, particular for a team so devoid of shooting). And I think you might be right, perhaps their intention is to trade Dort eventually to get under the second apron.
There’s no way that chicken nugget looking biped is running cover for anyone.
Other thoughts about Mitch is that he Probably pressed the FO to get his money nomatter if he would fuck team’s flexibility, or if he would press down the other much cheaper contract re-signings of the off-season.
Went to The Most Hated rival.
And painted his truck green?!!Right after?
Sorry guys but that feels like too much of selfishness and bitterness together in a while for me to cry over….
Booo
I don’t think so. First they developed Ajay Mitchell & traded for Jared McCain. Then they traded Wiggins and Joe after those moves made them surplus.
Which is why I mentioned that the draft picks Leon had to incinerate bc of the mandate may prove more consequential than Mitch. There were some good players available at 24 & 31 that we could have developed to help us out in a couple years.
Valanciunas to Lithuania is now official.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article/former-raptor-jonas-valanciunas-returning-to-europe-with-lithuanian-club/
And maybe even this coming year.
Weird coupla threads.
I think everyone should mourn losing Mitch in their own way, and that’s fine.
Personally, I sort of don’t care at this point. I loved Mitch when he was here, but, to play devil’s advocate a lil bit, I think we might be underestimating how Mitch breaking his own hand right before the first Knicks finals in 27 years looked to Knicks brass. And it’s not like that’s the only stupid thing he’s ever done.
That, plus the inability to shoot from pretty much anywhere, would maybe lead one to believe that keeping a player whose game is almost entirely based on athleticism into his 30s might be a bad idea.
Yes, Dolan’s an ass, but I also don’t think it’s crazy to look at the Mitch timeline and then go in a different direction.
And yeah, I know we don’t have a good enough big to replace him, but other teams will have to cut or move players before the season starts, and honestly, it makes sense to even wait until the trade deadline to fix any issues that maybe aren’t working (example A: Alvarado).
Hell, we could even go over the 2nd apron then for a great player if we want to… or just trade Deuce and picks and remain under the apron. By then, bad teams will be dropping out and offering up more players so they can rebuild. That actually feels like a better move than locking into a crappy 3rd-string center on a multi-year now.
England and Argentina are beating the crap out of each other.
This site was alot funner when the Knicks sucked.
Two things I wish fervently not to happen next year:
Mitch bombing away (successfully) from three;
The Knicks’ title chances ending on a floater over Drummond’s fat fingers.
I have said to myself for years, just win 1 championship. I, like a lot of you, had a hard time thinking that would be possible. Especially getting so close during the 90s, and during the 2000s when we were garbage for most of the years. Now that we won, I just want us to be good and have a chance. Another ring would be icing on the cake. If we do it great. If not, 2026 was magical.
Always remember that it only happened once I changed my moniker to “Knicks in ’26.” Should I go for “Knicks Heaven in ’27” to help things along?
I’m not mourning Mitch today. I haven’t even said his name.
I’m disagreeing with people who think it’s defensible for the Knicks to never go over the second apron and are trying to normalize the decision by presenting multiple false equivalencies.
15 players ever with over 2200 three pointers made.
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
Who do you all have? One player started their career in the 1980s, three in the 1990s (one 1999-2000, so I don’t think of him as a 1990s guy), and eight of them are active players (one of the seven retired guys retired just after this past season). I never would have guessed the #15 guy on the list, who got to 2201 this past season.
“I’m disagreeing with people who think it’s defensible for the Knicks to never go over the second apron”
Please, names…
Curry, Klay, Ray Allen, Durant, and Reggie are probably the easiest to come up with for the Top 10 (not necessarily Top 5). Don’t know who else would be in there, though. Maybe Dame, Harden, and/or LeBron (just based on longevity).
If this were actually true, we wouldn’t still be talking about it.
In fact, it’s a very contentious point, that’s why it’s not likely to go away.
Some people say 29 other owners would have done the same thing.
Some people say it was more important to save going over the second apron for a future year.
Some people say it was more important to maintain the flexibility to make another Alvarado trade.
Some people say Dolan didn’t even do it, that it’s a conspiracy to let Leon cook without taking the heat.
Some people say it wasn’t even dumb, that we’re going to be a better team when this is all over
Some people even say Mitch did it do himself when he broke his hand.
We are extremely far from “everyone agrees it was a dumb douchey thing Dolan did.” In fact it’s about as contentious a topic as we’ve ever had.
Seems like there’s a lot less disagreement than there appears to be here, and that we’re debating some very fine points.
We’re worse without Mitch, it’s gonna be hard for us not to be a worse team than last year if we won’t go into the second apron, the win curve arrow couldn’t possibly be pointing at “win now” any harder than it is, and we’ve chosen a curious time to move away from a “win now” strategy to a “let’s think about the future” strategy. James Dolan being dumb/spiteful/cheap is the main cause of this, and it sucks but it is what it is and hopefully Leon can pull another rabbit out of a hat and fix the backup C problem.
Does anybody really disagree with any of that? That seems to be the basic consensus as far as I can tell.
Checks Knickerblogger.
Still talking about Mitch.
Decides to check again tomorrow.
“If this were actually true, we wouldn’t still be talking about it.
In fact, it’s a very contentious point, that’s why it’s not likely to go away.”
I think it’s also a function of not much else going on right now with the Knicks. Just imagine the uptick in different topics as soon as we sign Oranges, Nick Richards, LeBron, Cisse, or trade Deuce and picks for Ware.
Does Kolek have a role this year? A regular role? Or will he just be in case of emergency or injury. I liked his confidence towards the end of the year and his garbage time minutes in the playoffs.
“I liked his confidence towards the end of the year and his garbage time minutes in the playoffs.”
And also around NBA Cup time and immediately thereafter for a short while.
Argentina are schooling them now
Kolek played a stint of four games just before Christmas where he averaged 11/6/6 on 48.8 percent shooting from the floor over 23.5 minutes per game. SSST, but it was cool to see it. Great showing in the NBA Cup Championship Game against the Spurs, too, IIRC.
For the sake of changing the topic, I do hope Kolek at least gets the chance to compete for 2nd-string PG. I think he’s earned it. It’s still probably going to be Alvie in the end, but I think Kolek has a lot to offer, especially if he can bump up his 3pt shooting closer to .400.
JK47 nailed it for me. Thanks, guy.
Lots of really interesting questions to answer, but I don’t have any hopes of answers for months. Kolek’s role, is the new offense a reality or a mirage, will Andre be re-energized (I’ve switched gears and now think that very well might happen), will Deuce be back throwing fire, who’s our next big, and so on.
Summer League was horse excrement, at least for Knicks fans, so you know, it may be recipe sharing time again…
I don’t know about a role but I think Kolek created minor trade value with that brief stint he had, and I don’t think needing a more experienced defensive guard in Alvarado cratered that value.
I’m still unsure as to whether the Knicks also view Deuce as a PG based on his diminutive stature, though.
Added in Knicks in ’26’s answers.
1. Curry
2. Harden
3. Allen
4. Klay
5. Dame
6. Lebron
7. Reggie
8.
9.
10. Durant
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
Of the remaining seven, only two are active (including the one I mentioned that passed 2200 at the end of this past season, and I never would have guessed him myself). One of the retired guys JUST retired after this past season.
Two of the remaining guys debuted in the 1990s (one in 1999-2000, so no one really thinks of him as a 1990s guy).
Kyle Korver for one of those spots. That’s all I got.
1. Curry
2. Harden
3. Allen
4. Klay
5. Dame
6. Lebron
7. Reggie
8. Korver
9.
10. Durant
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
One former Knick on the list! And one “Almost a Knick” on the list!
Isn’t Kidd up there despite being an awful shooter early in his career?
No Kidd. He ended up with 1988 made.
Longevity is definitely the driving force through a few of these guys, though. Two of these guys played in their 40s, and two of them retired at 39.
Jamal Crawford
1. Curry
2. Harden
3. Allen
4. Klay
5. Dame
6. Lebron
7. Reggie
8. Korver
9.
10. Durant
11.
12.
13. Jamal Crawford
14.
15.
9 and 15 are active players.
Paul George as an active player?
was thinking the player whom started their career in the 80’s would be easy to guess, good shooter from the mid 90’s, no luck though…
There is no schadenfreude in the world quite like when England lose and it’s clearly the manager’s fault.
Klay
Vince Carter has got to be in there, guy stuck around forever.
Brian, I like this kind of trivia thing for the dog days. It’s a nice distraction from Death By 1,000 Dolan’s Razor Cuts
Is dirk on there?
1. Curry
2. Harden
3. Allen
4. Klay
5. Dame
6. Lebron
7. Reggie
8. Korver
9. Paul George
10. Durant
11. Vince Carter
12.
13. Jamal Crawford
14.
15.
No Dirk. He ended up at 1982 (less than Kidd, oddly enough).
The 1980s guy is Reggie Miller.
There is one guy left who debuted in the 1990s.
The #15 guy is the only active guy left, and like I noted, he’s possibly the toughest guy to get (the other 1990s guy, who debuted in 1999, is also pretty tough).
As I wrote that, I realized that there were only three guys left, so obviously all three of them are difficult to guess. 🙂
“peppersays:
July 15, 2026 at 18:10
Klay”
He was one of my original guesses at 16:30, and Brian added him at 17:18. 🙂
I don’t need to talk about Mitch anymore. It’s also not ruining the afterglow for me at all.
But the idea that it was a fait accompli or that there is absolutely nothing to talk about regarding his departure just seems strange. It’s all we do here last time I checked.
But whatever, we move on…
Or do we…….? 🙂
CJ?
That was absolute brutality for England.
Also, the Knicks memes account is funny
https://x.com/knicksmemes/status/2077495618394616229?s=46&t=0wqff4cNt-sCGcDs-uMExw
Allan Houston? Or Steve Kerr?
I’m really glad we got this wonderful Knicks team in before Silver finishes ruining the NBA.
Apparently in his recent press conference all he did was talk about how great it was that a small market team was able to compete with a big market team in the NBA finals.
Also this guy and Kenny A should go hang out…
https://x.com/fullcourtpass/status/2077372690441052401?s=46&t=0wqff4cNt-sCGcDs-uMExw
Tried to think of the oldest players still hanging around who once shot a lot of 3s. The one name I came up with who’s not yet on the list and meets the “almost a Knick” clue dropped earlier is Kyle Lowry.
It hates how a lot of people write and tends to drive stylistic conformity. I notice it with some phrases i like to use.
1. Curry
2. Harden
3. Allen
4. Klay
5. Dame
6. Lebron
7. Reggie
8. Korver
9. Paul George
10. Durant
11. Vince Carter
12.
13. Jamal Crawford
14. Kyle Lowry
15.
No Allan Houston (Only 1305). No Steve Kerr (Didn’t even reach 1000). No CJ, but he was a GREAT guess! He’s just 20 shy!
One active player left, and one retired guy. The retired guy debuted in 1999. They are both very difficult to guess. I wouldn’t have thought of either of these guys.
Steve Nash? He didn’t play super long but he shot them at a pretty high rate for awhile.
Chris Paul?
Also, LeBron just signed with the warriors for one year, 32 million.
So much for taking the vet minimum lol.
One big (?) hint. The Knicks have played the active player in the playoffs TWICE.
Question mark because I don’t think it would have helped me. 😉
Sorry y’all. The LeBron news was fake.
Nevermind!
Is the retired player Paul pierce?
“I’m disagreeing with people who think it’s defensible for the Knicks to never go over the second apron and are trying to normalize the decision by presenting multiple false equivalencies.”
Bullshit.
“Seems like there’s a lot less disagreement than there appears to be here, and that we’re debating some very fine points.”
Agreed
“We’re worse without Mitch”
I agree, at least for now.
“It’s gonna be hard for us not to be a worse team than last year if we won’t go into the second apron”
It will be hard, for sure.
“the win curve arrow couldn’t possibly be pointing at “win now” any harder than it is”
It was actually pointing harder last year, when the consensus was that 2025-26 was our best, and perhaps only shot.
“We’ve chosen a curious time to move away from a “win now” strategy to a “let’s think about the future” strategy.”
While I agree to an extent, it’s actually a “hybrid” strategy.
“James Dolan being dumb/spiteful/cheap is the main cause of this”
Sure.
“…it sucks but it is what it is and hopefully Leon can pull another rabbit out of a hat and fix the backup C problem.”
Agreed.
Do these responses qualify me to be a member of the consensus?
New York Post:
“…….ESPN insider Shams Charania reported that Cleveland, Miami and Philadelphia have become the primary focus of James’ free-agency decision, noticeably excluding Golden State from the group receiving the most attention.
The Warriors have not been formally eliminated. Charania said the previously identified contenders remain involved, but his updated wording represents a potentially ominous shift only days after he listed Golden State among James’ leading suitors……..”
Paul Pierce is a great guess, as he DID debut in 1999, but he fell shy at 2143.
Speaking of Lowry…
Dolan’s “I Quashed That Shit” is one of the featured cuts on the Guitar Jimmy’s Greatest Hits LP, alongside such other golden oldies as “Bidding Against Myself for Melo,” and “Hiring the Zen Master.”
Word in the industry is that album is soon to be reissued, featuring some brand new material recorded in just the past few weeks!
Chauncey billups?
Jason Terry played for almost 20 years, so I’m going to go with him. No idea who the other one would be, and am not sure about Terry, either.
1. Curry
2. Harden
3. Allen
4. Klay
5. Dame
6. Lebron
7. Reggie
8. Korver
9. Paul George
10. Durant
11. Vince Carter
12. Jason Terry
13. Jamal Crawford
14. Kyle Lowry
15.
Chauncey Billups ended up at 1830.
So just the active player left (who the Knicks have faced in the playoffs TWICE). This is the guy I NEVER would have guessed myself. He IS a well-known three-point shooter, but the 15th most threes made in NBA history?! Would never think of him.
Baron Davis! (Not the active player)
Oh I know now but won’t say because I used google.
Donovan Mitchell?
Mitchell is at 1842. He’ll be there eventually!
Tough one, right? I never would have thought of this guy.
myles turner?
ha, random guesses galore…
just saw jalen won some espy award, for being captain clutch…that’s cool…
let’s do it again…
Danny Green? If it’s him, the hint of the playoffs was great.
OOOOOOO GEEEEEEEE
(won espy for the tip-in)
sorry cyber, Danny Green is not active
LOLOL. I was so happy i remembered a guy that played us twice, forgot the “active player” part.
It’s either Tim Hardaway Jr. or Buddy Hield
As he should, I’m pretty sure it’ll be the best play I’ve seen in my lifetime, it is now and i was here for LJ’s 4-pt play and Allan Houston’s winning shot against Miami.
Buddy Hield, for sure. He was on Philly a few years ago when we played them in the playoffs, and he also got a few minutes against us for Atlanta this past season. I remembered that once upon a time, he used to be a ~20 point per game scorer. Gotta be him…….but like you say, kind of difficult to believe.
Oh, I was thinking of a retired guy who entered the league in 1999… initials JT…
Buddy makes sense for the still-active player.
I definitely wouldn’t have come up with Hield. Didn’t realize how old he was. Sacramento is sort of a career wormhole.
I had guessed CJ McCollum, who is one slot behind Hield in 16th place.
Brunson at a loss for words…what an honor!
Buddy Hield was on the Oklahoma team that got absolutely bitch slapped by Villanova in the 2016 NCAA final
And our very own Josh Hart had 23 points on 12 shots and also 8 rebounds in that game
The Espy Awards were quite Knicks-centric!
Part of me wants to point out that Jalen shouted out Dolan, so he’s clearly not mad at him. If he’s not, maybe that can help us being a little bit more OK with the current circumstances?
Brook Lopez?
EDIT: Way off, just 1189, he started shooting them only halfway in his career
1. Curry
2. Harden
3. Allen
4. Klay
5. Dame
6. Lebron
7. Reggie
8. Korver
9. Paul George
10. Durant
11. Vince Carter
12. Jason Terry
13. Jamal Crawford
14. Kyle Lowry
15. Buddy Hield
As noted, I never would have guessed Buddy Hield (he ended up with 2201 at the end of this past season). How in the fuck does that guy have the 15th most three pointers made all-time?
He’s been playing for 10 years and has hit them at pretty much a 40 percent clip, with 7 years where he had over 200 made 3-pointers made (and 5 of those 7 seasons with closer to 300 made than 200). He’s also somehow played 21,000 regular season minutes over his career. That’ll do it.
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