Categories
Uncategorized

Knicks Morning News (2026.07.03)

News & Blogs

  • Mitchell Robinson leaving Knicks to sign with Celtics – SNY
  • Knicks are still the best team right now, despite trades in East – The New York Times
  • Eastern Conference tiers: Knicks on top, but several new-look contenders emerge after NBA’s summer shakeup – CBS Sports
  • Thursday Posted & Toasted Notes: Snitchie Mitchie, no big man’s land, doc talk – Posting & Toasting
  • 76ers snatch Jaylen Brown from Celtics in blockbuster steal – Posting & Toasting
  • Ariel Hukporti leaving Knicks to sign one-year deal with 76ers: report – SNY
  • YT News

  • Mitchell Robinson Signs With Celtics | Hukporti Joins 76ers – Knick of Time
  • Angry Knicks Fan Crashes Out Over Mitchell Robinson Leaving – Knicks Fan TV
  • HOW ABOUT THEM CELTICS?! (Jaylen Brown Trade REACTION) | PLUS: Fanatics Fest CEO Lance Fensterman! – Knicks Film School
  • 221 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2026.07.03)”

    It’s awesome to be early in free agency, the Knicks just lost a key player and haven’t replaced him, and there’s no real urgency to talk about this stuff, as, well, come on, the rest of the East sucks, the Knicks should be fine without Mitch as far as getting to the NBA Finals.

    And Leon will have the rest of the year to figure out how to fill out those center minutes by then.

    Winning a title really does give you such peace. I loved Mitch, but they won a title, I can’t be too sad about anything at the moment.

    14

    I will always love Mitch and hope he has a great time starting for the 48-win Celtics in a first round exit next year. Can’t begrudge a man getting his payday.

    BTW, I thought soccer had thoroughly embarrassed itself with the Balogun incident but this offsides call against Croatia really takes the cake. Awful.

    1

    starting for the 48-win Celtics in a first round exit next year

    They’ll be much better than that. If I’m handicapping the East right now, the Knicks are a heavy favorite, the Celtics have a puncher’s chance, the Pacers are a potential dark horse, and everyone else is mid.

    I know the trade is a disaster but they’re going to be better than they were last year. Tatum is replacing Brown. George replaces Hauser. Mitch replaces Garza.

    And they try really hard. They’ll probably be the 1 seed just by trying harder.

    This is a very good team, with depth at C to manage Mitch all year long for maximum impact:

    1 White, Conley
    2 Pritchard, Scheierman
    3 George, Gonzalez, Walsh
    4 Tatum, Hauser
    5 Robinson, Queta, Garza, Cenac

    lol what do I know, right? that’s only LeBron’s agent talking.

    we should talk about more important things, like the pathetic baseball team that’s 4 games behind the Rays

    we are the champions, of the world…

    okay, so we did in fact win a title due to our awesomeness…

    so, what’s the problemo king james – pack your shit and get ready to play in front of the most excellent fans in any where…

    we have already demonstrated our capacity to root for just about any one in a knicks’ uni…

    we will root for you too…

    sounds like it may be captain clutch’s job now to seal the deal…

    Strat, the concert was phenomenal! Yeah, the main guys were old but the quality of the music was still great. The best thing about the concert was the weather, it was 78 with a breeze there when it was close to 100 every place else.. I’m glad that one of my kids got to experience Santana before he joins that great band in the sky.

    2

    well, it is friday morning, and the question for the day:

    is anyone else as impressed as i am with Tasty’s beautiful head salad in his last supper profile pic…

    what shampoo do you use Tasty? i want hair like that…

    Winning a title really does give you such peace. I loved Mitch, but they won a title, I can’t be too sad about anything at the moment.

    brian do you have a ton of experience fighting southpaws because this makes me want to see if my drunken left cross still works. i mean, sure, we won the war and almost all of the battles. won it so bad teams are changing their pronouns and hiring grim reapers named billy donovan in a fit of self imposed reparations. it would really disappoint tony robbins for the long suffering victors to also walk around in a fugue state all summer because of a relative papercut.

    but holy shit mary poppins there’s no need to transcend straight past master phil’s spiritual penthouse to savor it. leave a bit of headspace for some well placed moments of pique to rage against the guitar hero machine and pour one out for our mitch’s left behind. a little strategic texture never killed a great buzz. clearly a stranger in a strange land on this around here, but if i had to choose between the scylla of typical kb catastrophizing over the trivial or hypothetical and the charybdis of ascending all the way to the don draper coca cola nirvana i’m going to feel the damn papercut.

    also don’t agree that the east sucks or that it will be even close to an easy path to the finals for this team next year. but that, for sure, is very much okay.

    3

    just – be happy…embrace the euphoria, cuz everything is gonna be alright…you’re gonna be alright…

    or maybe not, who knows, just don’t disturb this groove…

    One night, I had mind-blowing sex with a beautiful woman I never saw again. The next morning I woke up and stepped on her kid’s lego. My toe still hurt.

    3

    a little strategic texture never killed a great buzz.

    Well said.

    Every time I bemoaned Mitch — and I admit I did it loudly and perhaps a bit too often — folks assumed it equaled unhappiness.

    I’m still thrilled we won the chip and go to sleep every night watching extended highlights of a different playoff game. I’ve watched every game twice with my son now and shown him 1000 different instagram videos of NYC celebrations that I collected while he was in Florida. (Every night we say a prayer, watch a Knicks vid, and he goes to sleep with his Jalen Brunson doll 🙂 ) I remeain overjoyed by what transpired.

    I’m also not binary. A part of me is sad while the majority of me is happy. My favorite player is gone and it will diminish my experience for years.

    (And to a smart observer, I am clearly coping with it by trying to manifest LeBron into existence.)

    won it so bad teams are changing their pronouns

    ¿estás enojado, los Spurs?

    1

    Dont cry over spilled mitch.
    If you like Doom then Master of Reality is the best way to start!

    1

    Personally, if I was asked at any time between 1994 and today: would you sign for the Knicks win a championship but then not making the playoffs for, say. 10 years, I would have been scrambling through my effects for a working pen.

    That feeling only intensified through the aughts, the teens, and now the 2020’s. I would have made that corrupt bargain even after we were down a bunch of points in game 5.

    That’s how personally desperate I was for one fucking championship. I suffered the pain of every one of those 53 years. I know the pain of Rangers fans, Red Sox fans, Cubs fans, etc., before they broke their schneids, and frankly, being a Knicks fan has been worse because of the revolving clown show engineered by the one and only James Dolan.

    Of course we know that there are no such corrupt bargains. Things play out as they play out. But in that weird place where we all play these kinds of mental games, I still am so very thankful, not only that we finally won, but for the way we won and the team that won. It surpassed my wildest imagination. The joy continually runs over me like waves on the beach of a perfect tropical paradise.

    And so, like Brian, I am taking this time to fully treasure these vibes. Unlike Brian, when I look ahead, I see a very rocky road, especially with no Mitch or Huk replacement in sight. It just doesn’t really bother me, not even a little bit. We’ll still be a magnificent team to watch, and will likely have a memorable season no matter if it ends with a play-in loss or a championship. I’m sticking to the corrupt bargain I would have made. I respect that folks feel differently, but that’s where I’m at and why.

    Just to be clear, I am by no means ambivalent to not having a backup plan for losing Mitch, nor am I any less repulsed by James Dolan, and how he has acted in the wake of the championship, both in his official capacity. The dude literally killed the vibe of a finals game I paid a fortune to attend, my first and only since 1994. I hate him more than ever, if that’s even possible.

    It just hardly matters to me right now.

    Strat, the concert was phenomenal! Yeah, the main guys were old but the quality of the music was still great. The best thing about the concert was the weather, it was 78 with a breeze there when it was close to 100 every place else.. I’m glad that one of my kids got to experience Santana before he joins that great band in the sky.

    I’m glad the weather turned out like that. I love seeing concerts at Jones Beach. I saw the Doobie brothers 20 or so years ago, but this was a first I saw Santana. I’m glad I got to see him too.

    “One night, I had mind-blowing sex with a beautiful woman I never saw again. The next morning I woke up and stepped on her kid’s lego. My toe still hurt.”

    When you got together with your buddies in the ensuing days, how much did you bitch and moan about the lego?

    1

    also don’t agree that the east sucks or that it will be even close to an easy path to the finals for this team next year. but that, for sure, is very much okay.

    I think the east is likely to be quite a bit better next year. If the Knicks don’t continue at their playoff level, they may not have homecourt in the first round. I want to see the remainder of the moves before I make a prediction like that, but the east is getting better and the Knicks took a small step back – at least until we get to see what the backup C looks like (may take until the trade deadline).

    1

    The East will be better than last year’s even shittier East, but it still ain’t great. Meanwhile, the Knicks unlocked a second gear with KAT becoming mini-Jokic. The Knicks will eat these teams alive.

    No Mitch will hurt, of course, but they’ll still do really well. Maybe they won’t make the NBA Finals, but they’ll do really well (and I think they WILL make the Finals again).

    I think they’re basically the 2004 Pistons (except, of course, they kept that team together).

    And, again, I looooooooooooove Mitch. I am not all happy that Dolan being a douche led to them losing Mitch. But, they won a title, I am too happy about that to care as much as I ever would otherwise.

    Similarly, when the 2012-13 Knicks were kicking ass, I was celebrating that and not thinking about how much it sucked that Dolan was a prick and cost them Jeremy Lin (okay, since that team was eliminated in the second round, I probably DID think about the lack of Lin a bit at that time, but, again, that was a second round LOSS and not a Finals WIN).

    “I’m glad the weather turned out like that. I love seeing concerts at Jones Beach. I saw the Doobie brothers 20 or so years ago, but this was a first I saw Santana. I’m glad I got to see him too.”

    The one “negative” is that the crowd was loaded with geezers, with a smattering of kids my daughter’s age who (unlike her) didn’t have the love of the music or the sense of the place in the history or R&R these bands held. The parking entry and exit is a fiasco there, so scores of fans left well before the “Smooth” encore. And the fans didn’t go quite as insane as I remember in the past. But minor quibbles aside, it was one of the very best concerts of my life.

    1

    Maybe some undrafted player that’s playing in summer league or even a current G league C can be the 3rd string C. I’m less worried about that.

    It’s the backup C that we all know is much more important. I was hanging my hopes on Hukporti taking a step forward and being given the job to win or lose until the trade deadline. The fact that they let him walk for so little tells me they didn’t think he was ready for the job and maybe he wanted more than just 3rd string.

    One of the biggest problems I see with also letting Hukporti go is that now everyone on planet earth knows we are desperate for a C. So if we trade for one, it’s going to be expensive. The other team has all the leverage. A deal may have to include Deuce, one of our other young players and some of those excess 2nd rounders we accumulated.

    Tastycakes – why do think Croatia got robbed? The Snickometer said there was a touch. Clear offside in that case. Yes, it was barely visible to the eye but they got the call right.

    Re Rich Paul, it just made me realize again how perfect this victory was. I would have been delighted to win with LeBron if we hadn’t won last year, but it was so so much better without him.

    And just in general, up and down, it was the perfect victory. I literally have no notes, not even clinching on the road, since it saved me having to watch another nailbiter on European time. Even the Trump Dump game somehow made the narrative better.

    1

    “One of the biggest problems I see with also letting Hukporti go is that now everyone on planet earth knows we are desperate for a C.”

    As stupid as it may have been to be limited to the second apron, at least you can see the reasoning behind losing Mitch under that decree. But letting Huk walk for cheap, and trading a drafted C for cash, seems pretty mindless on Leon’s part…Dolan seemingly had nothing to do with those decisions.

    1

    When you got together with your buddies in the ensuing days, how much did you bitch and moan about the lego?

    When I’m on a date, I tend not to talk about sex with my exes. It’s a new league year folks.

    2

    “Tastycakes – why do think Croatia got robbed? The Snickometer said there was a touch. Clear offside in that case. Yes, it was barely visible to the eye but they got the call right.”

    I’m waiting for cyber to weigh in. My guess is that he is very happy with how things turned out! 😉

    “Re Rich Paul, it just made me realize again how perfect this victory was. I would have been delighted to win with LeBron if we hadn’t won last year, but it was so so much better without him

    You couldn’t have said it better. More pointedly, I would have been thrilled if the Knicks had won a championship even on the backs of hated mercs. I definitely was cringing at the thought of Durant and Kyrie coming here, and was relieved when it didn’t happen, but if it had happened, and Harden joined them, and COVID didn’t ensue, and we won a championship that way, I’d have been dancing in the streets…but there would always be a bit of stink on that one. Same if it was LeBron who got us there.

    Not this one! The vibes are 99% immaculate, with the 1% of stink being seeing Dolan with his grubby little hands on the LOB trophy.

    “When I’m on a date, I tend not to talk about sex with my exes. It’s a new league year folks.”

    Man, I give you credit. When me and my boomer besties get together on our golf trips, that always a big part of the conversation. Sadly, I doubt that our exes remember things the same way.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but it looks like with the new Kenrich deal the Thunder have maneuvered themselves under the second apron?

    Boston is the capital of cuntry music north of Dixie… Mitch will be fine.

    2

    Mitch getting one off. rebound after another was like watching magic. Championship or not, I’ll miss it terribly.

    1

    But letting Huk walk for cheap, and trading a drafted C for cash, seems pretty mindless on Leon’s part

    I actually think our plan now is to wait for the best of the Last Centers Standing after free agency, so we can negotiate the cheapest contract possible. And to be honest, whoever that free agent is (Olynyk or worse), won’t be much of a difference from Hukporti, at least over a one-year span. Not saying it’s the right move, but it feels on brand.

    2

    okay then EB, from a used to be a freak, (but just for a really short period of time, regrets regrets regrets) to a freak freak (that’d be you oh sexy one):

    have you ever collected “trophies” from some of your more joyous encounters…

    had a box at one point, with you know, ladies’ garments…always made me smile a bit to see the wide range in sizes within…

    and yes, i am keeping that kids leggo, 1,000 percent…

    nice, early bird with the worm…

    I think Huk is going to get lots of PT with the Sixers and is going to clearly show us what we missed out on.

    The Celtics are probably gonna be about as good as they were. Paul George is going to be 36 and was very mediocre in his age 34-35 seasons with Philly. They’ll have to rely heavily on their Army Of Tryhards who should do fine in the regular season, but as a playoff team, they look like one of the less threatening contenders to me.

    Cyber getting the Queta deal as icing on his cake….

    I spend a lot of time in Connecticut visiting friends and in New Hampshire with my MIL and it’s surprising how country a lot of New England is these days….

    “have you ever collected “trophies” from some of your more joyous encounters…

    had a box at one point, with you know, ladies’ garments…always made me smile a bit to see the wide range in sizes within…”

    geo, love you like a brother, but really?

    1

    along for the ride with the king comin’ to play here for a couple of years (and rings)…

    plus: Last Center Standing

    hopefully the team has talked it out and jalen, KAT, josh, kal, OG and anyone and everyone else in the building is reaching out and showing love…

    Full Disclaimer: any and all minors, pay attention – EB just might teach you some stuff…

    EB be aura farming…hard..

    The weird thing is that Queta is about as close to Mitch as any player in the league. He’ll probably learn a thing or two about offensive rebounding and country music from him. And maybe Mitch can learn how to shoot a FT and the joy of fado from Queta.

    Meaning, we’ll get to see how effective something akin to 48 minutes of Mitch would look.

    If I have anything from past lovers, it is as haphazardly strewn across my apartment as everything else I own.

    Only reason I’ve kept anything is “on accident” so we could meetup again when I return it. The lego was not one of them.

    1

    I hope you’re getting jerky and maple caramel corn and maple donuts at the hooksett welcome center off the 93, Owen. That’s hard country past that border town.

    1

    The Knicks are going to be “The Hunted” this year. Every team is gonna come into MSG with something extra. Part of it is just being the defending champs, but I think other teams (and their fanbases) are itching to put the “overrated and lucky” Knicks back in their place. That, and the elimination of tanking, is going to make every game an event. Brunson is going to have more of a target on his back than ever. And Mitch was the closest thing we had to an “enforcer” type.

    1

    A lot of the remaining FA centers seem pretty interchangeable talent-wise. I’m fine holding off on signing one to work the phones for a trade. Just make sure we sign a decent one if no trades materialize.

    Philly has plenty of problems, and PG for the few games he was healthy was better than Jaylen. But KAT had 7pf/36 against Philly and Embiid even missed a game. Won’t matter if we run them out of the gym like this year, but KAT is foul-prone. With Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, and Wemby potentially on our post-season dance card, we should have someone cromulent at the backup C spot.

    1

    “Only reason I’ve kept anything is “on accident” so we could meetup again when I return it.”

    I left my suit jacket at a freaky one-night stand’s apartment and had to come up with a way to get it back. The plan failed miserably. The freak has been sharing my bed for the last 36 years.

    5

    Dolan turns Rangers over to son. Still a decent chance the Apron Edict is somehow tied in with sale or succession plan.

    Wait, I was just in Hooksett. Maple donuts?

    Had no idea but I will hit it hard next time.

    The welcome center?

    1

    It is precisely because the Knicks championship brought me so much joy, and continues to bring me so much joy, that I am angry they are not doing the simple, obvious thing that, contra many other championship teams, was actually quite easy to do if they wanted: running it back.

    1

    It is interesting that the two previous championship teams before the Knicks brought their whole rotations back. One of them choked big time in the second round, and the other got beat in the Conference Finals, but also had major injury problems.

    I have only rooted for the Knicks, Mets, and Jets since my childhood. So the only experience I have with the “to run it back or not run it back” conundrum is 1986, and I don’t remember that all that well in those terms.

    I would think that diehard Yankees, Giants, etc. fans have a lot more experience with it. For me, it’s something entirely new and frankly, unexpected.

    Not sure how much of a role that plays in the disconnect, but it isn’t nothing.

    1

    I still remember being irked at them losing Ray Knight (and I shouldn’t have been)!

    You can EASILY say that there are too many wild card in MLB now, but come on, the addition of wild cards period was a BIG win, as look at all of those great teams that missed the playoffs, like the 1987 Mets.

    The Lions, another of my faves, are *way* more forlorn than the Knicks, and I wouldn’t trade a Super Bowl for ten more shitty years. I’m part of the fanbase (probably minority, but not small) that rejected out of hand the idea that their complete whiff in the 2023 NFC championship game against SF was somehow “ok” because, after all, they’d been so shitty for so long — one playoff win between 1957-2023 — and, after all, they were still a “young” team and “they’ll have plenty more chances.”

    I mean, no — they fucked up a golden opportunity to win a Super Bowl.

    Three years later, halftime of that game looks like their peak (up 27-10), their 2024 draft was awful, their defense is now well below average, they haven’t won a playoff game since, and it looks very much like their time has come and gone.

    All of which is to say, I’m wired to just play it straight, irrespective of history, cosmic considerations, long periods in the wilderness, etc. Knicks won an extremely cool championship this year, and I know by next spring that will be old news for me, they’ll have another good team, and I’ll want them to win all their playoff series and hoist the LO’B again. (*)

    The only thing that follows from that is that want them to undertake their best preparation to do that come next spring — without overly jeopardizing their chances to do it come spring ’28, spring ’29 etc., and I don’t let old news stand in the way of commenting on whether I think they’re doing that or not. It’s not entirely “what have you done for me lately?” but it’s not too far away from that either.

    (*) Most likely, 98% of the souls in MSG when they lost Game 7 of the ECF to the Bullets in 1971 felt pretty much this way — irrespective of how cool 1970 was.

    I camp up at lake country every year and hooksett welcome center is the shit. There’s a cider donut stand next to the center, with two lady’s selling stickers and donuts. I still have the loon on my car… the interior is worth the bathroom trip at least, glide by the league of New Hampshire craftsman kiosk on your way to the convenience store for the jerky or maple candies or head straight to. the state run liquor store for what I remember to be some insane deals on wildly underpriced mezcal… the deli counter makes a bomb turkey sandwich… it’s…. it’s a world.

    1

    Also, I’m pretty sure that there are many, many examples of championship teams who did NOT run it back to the degree that we are. By my count, we have retained 8 of our ten rotation players and 4 out of our 6 non-rotation players.

    It’s more about Mitch being both very important to winning and very lovable. And he hasn’t been replaced yet, likely resulting in a major downgrade. Whereas any of the other guys was either more redundant or more replaceable. But I don’t think that it’s all about our chances of repeating being less.

    right now I’ve been stuck on different, some filled, donut hole goodies…

    just feel like I’m getting more…maybe just buying more…

    with some chilled cream on top whole milk…don’t like glass things, love it in a mug…

    fudge brownies are high up on the list too…better yet, fudge no nuts…

    did you know: they sell soft serve ice cream now…in like some kind of capri sun tube thing…keep waiting to run up on the strawberry version…just vanilla and vanilla/chocolate twist right now that i’m seeing…

    life is hard sometimes 😪

    1

    just be happy you’re not living in detroit E…what life may have been like there, huh…really cold…

    tell you a secret though, most new yorkers dream of cali and flo-rida…

    not that there aren’t nicer spots in the country/world (there most certainly are) – it’s just nice to be warm, a lot of the time, and not have to think about a viable location too hard…maybe just in the air where/when i grew up…

    I read geo’s dessert post and went into an ice cream fever dream. Rockland County, where I grew up, had an ice cream stand called Hoyer’s in Haverstraw that was around for 90 years. It closed a few years ago. Their vanilla shakes would stop time, force you to register the moment and stay in your brain forever.

    3

    Here are some high usage scorers around the league in Scoring Turnover Rate (Lower is better)

    Jaylen Brown: 10.3%
    Giannis: 10.5%
    Paolo: 9%
    Ant: 6.6%
    Shai: 4.4%.
    Kawhi: 5.5%.
    Brunson: 4.1%
    Mitchell: 5.3%
    Tatum: 6.5% (2025)

    Good analysis but sems a little strawmannish, though. Does anyone actually put Brown in the class of these players? *Maybe* Banchero, but I’d trade him in a heartbeat for PB.

    We saw his downside up close in the 2025 playoffs; he’s kind of shitty with the ball, especially in fourth quarters. He does give back a bigger chunk of his creation than the best creators, no question, and that includes bad chucking decisions (which in turn drives his TS% down.)

    “All of which is to say, I’m wired to just play it straight, irrespective of history, cosmic considerations, long periods in the wilderness, etc.”

    Two things:
    1) we are definitely wired differently in a great many respects. I only know you through your posting, but the degree that it represents who you are outside of ths blog, I am personally very thankful for that. If I were a Lions fan especially one with 3 Lions fans kids and a Lions fan wife, or perhaps a long-suffering father who didn’t have many years left, I would have joyfully made that bargain and never looked back. And I can tell you from personal experience that nothing that happened in 1971, or 1972, or even the championship in 1973 had one iota of meaning compared to what happened in 1970, and in retrospect, I wouldn’t have traded championships in all 3 of those years for the magnificence of the Willis Reed game. I feel that way about many of the special moments in my life, whether they were replicated or not.
    2) Beyond that, it doesn’t mean that anyone who feels this way is immune to having feelings about events and decisions that ensue. It’s really about time, place, and degree. There will definitely come a point where I step off of cloud 9 and rejoin the hunt for the next one. But I also know that the next one will never be as good as this one for me and the folks I love. Probably not even close. And that will be true whether we miss the playoffs for the next 10 years or win 10 straight championships. This was the one.

    But hey, to each his own!

    1

    I would think that diehard Yankees, Giants, etc. fans have a lot more experience with it. For me, it’s something entirely new and frankly, unexpected.

    Yanks/G-men fan here.
    To me it’s different – and a bit difficult – to weigh in on, Z. If Plaxico doesn’t shoot himself in the leg, I really believe the Giants would’ve gone B2B off their historic upset title. The Yanks three-peat and four titles in five run, it made me think back then that we were going to have a sustained run like the days the old heads talked about (50s/60s).

    All of those are and were awesome. But none were like the Knicks just winning it all: this is just a new level of reality for me. Like, the Knicks are my #1 of #1 of my three teams in my heart. So hopefully I’m don’t come off disingenuous to the Mets/Jets crowd when I say this: emotionally, as a Knick fan I’m right there with yall. I can’t imagine the Knicks going B2B (they certainly can!) because I just saw the one thing my sports fandom (and part of my soul) I’d longed to see.

    1

    Does anyone actually put Brown in the class of these players?

    His contract puts him in the conversation – class is something else which is kind of the point.

    1

    berry interesting jazzfunk…yes, something sweet to be savored does bring your awareness to the present, also allows to imprint that thing well in to your memory…makes recall (particularly pleasant reveries) later much easier…

    one of the first things took note of here at KB was the depth of recall some folks had…remarkable…so cool…

    1

    Good analysis but sems a little strawmannish, though. Does anyone actually put Brown in the class of these players? *Maybe* Banchero, but I’d trade him in a heartbeat for PB.

    They absolutely do. Maybe not Giannis or Shaidolf but the general perception is that he is a top 10-15 guy.

    Thew whole story here has been the disconnect between the general perception and the reveal from analytics that he’s an empty-calories guy who gets POINTZ but doesn’t make you win. See Anthony, Carmelo.

    So, completely unsurprisingly, LeBron-to-Knicks does not appear to be a thing.

    1

    I actually think our plan now is to wait for the best of the Last Centers Standing after free agency, so we can negotiate the cheapest contract possible. And to be honest, whoever that free agent is (Olynyk or worse), won’t be much of a difference from Hukporti, at least over a one-year span. Not saying it’s the right move, but it feels on brand.

    makes sense but that plan implies you’re going to solve the problem via trade during the season so you really, really, really need to pair that plan with signing Clarkson to his non birds right max. Either Clarkson’s salary becomes the filler or Clarkson fills in for Deuce if he’s the trade chip.

    EDIT: I suppose you can do the same thing with Sochan instead.

    Melo is actually a pretty good comp for Jaylen Brown I think. Innings eating decent efficiency with high usage soaking, valuable for a team like Boston last year who really needed the usage, maybe not so much on a team like Philly with guys who are potentially better options. Good not great player.

    Brown gets short shrift in the analytics dept because of his inefficiency. I think he’s a much better player than many here do, and while not worthy of his supermax deal, he’s a legit all-star and all-league level player. He is physically dominant at his position, and that opens up things for others. Melo was a net minus on defense, so the comparison to Melo kind of fails for me.

    I would love to have him on an OG-type deal, and anything less would be a bargain. But his contract has gone to his head and that’s a dealbreaker.

    Still, I think he’s gonna really help Philly. He’s WAAAAAY better than Paul George at this stage. He’s also in his prime and has a lot of intelligence and pride He takes a ton of pressure off of all of Embiid, Maxey and Edgecombe.

    Thew whole story here has been the disconnect between the general perception and the reveal from analytics that he’s an empty-calories guy who gets POINTZ but doesn’t make you win. See Anthony, Carmelo.

    Nah, that’s just another one where the analytics crowd imagines a player’s reputation outside their cult that doesn’t really exist just because a handful of people barely this side of a 2 am Saturday morning Flushing barstool said something stupid about pointzzz or RBIs.

    (See, e.g., the founding father of the phenomenon — Mr. David Eckstein.)

    He made second team all-NBA this year because the Celtics seemingly overachieved on the court and the voters wanted to recognize that. No one serious has him in the conversation with the other guys on Owen’s list — or with the real stars of the league. When he was put up for bid, no one in the league wanted him.

    His real rep is a little better but not much than Trae or Ja, the other barely tradeable big dollar guys of recent vintage. The only real pushback on the deal was “Why take Paul George’s big contract back?”

    Again, we all caught his act two springs ago. While he’s certainly not De’Aaron Fox, neither is he a guy who really scares you with the ball in his hands in the fourth.

    list reminded me how good shai still is, in his prime, for a while…

    hopefully the league/refs scrutinize his we all fall down thing, it’s way weird…

    as soon as they stop calling fouls on his flops,and the thunder are consistently playing 5 on 4 the other way…he’ll stop…or, at least slow down…

    ha, bet the whole thunder facility is going to have the san antonio spurs on their mind all season long…

    Melo is actually a pretty good comp for Jaylen Brown I think. Innings eating decent efficiency with high usage soaking, valuable for a team like Boston last year who really needed the usage, maybe not so much on a team like Philly with guys who are potentially better options. Good not great player.

    As a certified Melo hater I will say that he was a lot better offensively due to his ball security and Browns’ sneakily bad 3-point stroke.

    Brown makes it up on defense where he’s decent while Melo was useless.

    Similar quality of player, and similar delta between perception and actual quality.

    1

    So, completely unsurprisingly, LeBron-to-Knicks does not appear to be a thing.

    A major step back in team quality it is, then. Sigh.

    Has any champion ever repeated while losing a major rotation piece for nothing while purposely foregoing all possible avenues for a reasonable replacement?

    Like it’s not just that we’ve had no plan, it’s that we’ve affirmatively acted to ensure no adequate plan is even possible.

    This sucks.

    FYI to the guys who mentioned Sochan as the best backup big on the team. He’s a free agent and we haven’t re-signed him.

    No one has repeated in nine years. The Warriors turned over two of their bench pieces.

    Well, this is a test for the FO I guess. Either they solve this problem in some unexpected way, or the team got substantially worse for reasons that are so dumb they can only be explained by Dolan’s Razor.

    We’ll find out which pretty soon I guess! At least they haven’t done the Kevon Looney panic move. Insert shrug emoticon.

    Jaylen Brown had a big spike in usage this year, and led the league in usage actually. He maintained his (middling) efficiency while doing so, so it was a career year. He had a lot of value to the Tryhards. Not sure how replicable that will be sharing the ball with guys who are actually better scorers in Philly.

    It’s very odd to hear “no one thinks he’s elite” about the guy who finished 6th in MVP voting.

    I suspect age is a significant factor in how different people perceive this championship.

    In ‘73, I was a hoop besotted 15 year old and the Knicks were my favorite team. Naturally, I was overjoyed when they took home the title that year. Even at that age, I knew that to be a special achievement. After all, it had been three long years since the last time they did it! Even the know-nothing 15 y.o. me was able to grasp the hard truth that every team except one fails to win the title in any given year.

    Of course, I had no way of knowing at that time how many of those any given years lay ahead for my beloved Knicks. Yeah, there were a number of near misses along the way but most of those years were ones of abject failure. No longer expecting the joy of victory, the basis of my fandom eventually shifted to gallows humor instead (when I first came here and saw “humor” listed on the masthead, I knew this was the Knicks site for me)

    The oh-so-close Ewing Era gave a new lease on life but by the early years of the 21st Century the malaise had returned in full. The raging bonfire of passion I had once felt for this team had been reduced to a guttering candle. Don’t know if it was during the Isiah administration or Phil’s when I ultimately resigned myself to the fact that I would never again witness a Knicks championship in my lifetime. I wasn’t getting any younger, the team was getting stupider, and James Dolan was always going to be the owner.

    Truth be told, the early years of the Leon Era didn’t exactly fill me with renewed hope. I quickly wrote him off as just another feckless Dolan yes-man when he eschewed a proper tear down and rebuild in favor of the so-called hybrid approach. Yes, the on court product gradually grew more watchable but that never blinded me to the fact that it was just repackaged mediocrity and that the ultimate prize would forever remain out of reach.

    I guess all of this has just been a very long-winded way of me saying that 53 years is nearly a full fucking lifespan, probably longer than many of the regulars on here have been alive (insert the obligatory “OK, Boomer” here) Those 53 years seem like dog years when they’ve been spent rooting for a team as historically bad as the Knicks have been. It’s impossible to convey to those who did not themselves travel every step of that particular dismal journey just what an insanely joyous destination this title has been.

    But it wasn’t just that looooooooooooong fucking wait that has made this title so much sweeter than any of others I’ve witnessed by the Knicks & my other favorite teams (Giants, Mets) It was also the sheer improbability of it; the unorthodox manner in which it all came together; and the unlikely cast of characters who made it happen. This really does feel like the culmination of my lifetime as a sports fan; a high point that will never again be matched. I’m sure I’d feel differently were I still in my 20s, 30s, or 40s. I’d want – nay, expect – that there’d be more moments like this in my future. But now, poised on the cusp of 70, that future happened three weeks ago and I’m still reveling in it. There may be no more championships in my biological future but I’m OK with that. I have been fulfilled.

    2

    Brown’s games as the Celtics’ season went down the tubes after going up 3-1:

    Game 5: 9-23, 1-4 from deep, 3 turnovers
    Game 6: 7-17, 2-6 from deep, 5 turnovers
    Game 7: 12-27, 3-9 from deep, 3 turnovers

    Totals: 28-67 (.418); 6-19 from deep (.316), 11 turnovers (3.67) vs. 14 assists (4.67), AST/TO ratio: 1.27.

    Thanks, but no thanks. At $57M per year and growing, I’ll pass.

    A b-ref comparison says Brown and Melo are basically the same person (and Brown’s 3pt% is actually a tiny bit better…).

    Interesting that outside of this site (deservedly) Melo gets all the love and Brown is given (deservedly) short shrift.

    Never liked either of them.

    1

    I also think that Jaylen Brown’s season last year is being disrespected. He put up 30-7.3-5.4 per 36 on 36% usage at close to league average efficiency, and led a team to 56 wins when the second best player on his team was, I dunno, Derrick White (.529 TS%, 22% usage)? Payton Prichard (.584 TS%, 37.7% from 3, 21% usage)?

    That said, I think the most valid part of the Melo comparison is that he really isn’t cut out

    Celtics are 90-36 without Brown in his career, 36-6 in the last three seasons.

    No one has repeated in nine years. The Warriors turned over two of their bench pieces.

    If we had brought the band back, which was fully in our power to do, I believe we’d have had the best chance to repeat of any champion this decade except OKC.

    1

    “That said, I think the most valid part of the Melo comparison is that he really isn’t cut out…”

    ….for the role of first banana, or the “brain” of the team. The same is true for lots of other stars. Honestly, KAT is an excellent example. Without someone like Brunson, KAT would be Melo-like in terms of being a true 1A.

    I think that will be less of a problem for JB in Philly. It’s Tyrese Maxey’s team, just like the Knicks were Clyde’s team. JB believed that the Celts should have been his team, when everyone else thought it was Tatum’s (and he might also not be cut out for a pure 1A role) and it took big b-ball IQ brains like Jrue Holiday and Al Horford to get those two over the top.

    How the Sixers do will be as much about Maxey as anyone else. How can he rein Brown in and bring out the best in him? I personally don’t think that Maxey has that in him (he’s flawed as well!), but we’ll see!

    Ayton traded to Washington for Jaden Hardy.

    And Shams says this means the Lakers will also be shopping in the discount FA backup center bin, just like us.

    Some of the more intriguing cheap centers who are currently rostered on other teams unfortunately play for our Eastern Conference rivals. Jay Huff could maybe be a guy, but… plays for the Pacers. Adem Bona, same thing, Sixers.

    Quinten Post of the Warriors isn’t really what we’re looking for, but he’s tall (7’0”) and shoots threes. He can’t rebound worth shit but he can be tall and shoot threes.

    Then there’s the Goga Bitazde/Isaiah Jackson tier, guys who make more like $7M in addition to not being very good.

    This is quite a pickle we’re in here. Maybe Diabate would be available if we’re willing to move that 2033 pick? He might actually be worth it.

    Honestly, KAT is an excellent example. Without someone like Brunson, KAT would be Melo-like in terms of being a true 1A.

    Karl-Anthony Towns has a .624 career TS%. His TS% in Minnesota was .623. He’s an extremely efficient offensive player. Melo was … not.

    1

    At this point we need to be willing to trade any combination of Pac Daddy, the Kolektor, Deuce, and any future incineration fodder we’re allowed to trade to close the thermal exhaust port unless we want to have the worst defense in the NBA every minute KAT doesn’t play.

    The Celtics were 4.6 points/100 better with Brown on the bench.

    They were 31.4pts/100 better in the playoffs.

    They didn’t have Tatum this year, and they were still worse with him on the court. Pretty sure Hugo Gonzalez was the guy stepping in for him.

    He collects stats, but they’re not additive. His game is grabbing defensive rebounds from teammates, but if you could do that for every stat. Granted, the Celtics are usually very good, so on another team he’ll probably be additive. But he’s the type of player to set a floor more than raise the ceiling of a good team. Works for Philly because getting to the playoffs is a struggle with Embiid never healthy.

    2

    A big part of the Melo-Brown difference is that Melo was always the number 1 option on his team during his prime, and those teams were normally pretty good. Brown has played alongside a better player until this season.

    This is quite a pickle we’re in here. Maybe Diabate would be available if we’re willing to move that 2033 pick? He might actually be worth it.

    Makes zero sense to move a 33 first rounder (when we might really suck) for a back up center when a gaggle of possible back ups were available at 24 and 31 a week ago.

    Leon et al aren’t stupid. There must be options we don’t see. You can’t play an NBA season with one center.

    Makes zero sense to move a 33 first rounder (when we might really suck) for a back up center when a gaggle of possible back ups were available at 24 and 31 a week ago.

    Leon et al aren’t stupid. There must be options we don’t see. You can’t play an NBA season with one center.

    It made zero sense before we incinerated this draft, but we did. Can’t un-burn the pile of ashes.

    The only possible options now are parting with current or future assets. We’re trying to repeat as champs, so future is preferable. It’s inevitable we take a step back from last year’s roster, and trading future value is the only way to minimize the size of that step.

    Leon is great, but he’s not the final authority here. If all possible good moves are verboten, all we’re left with is bad ones.

    The more high end options like Diabate and Kel’el Ware might actually be worth a future first rounder, because those guys have starter potential down the line. Of course, the teams that have those guys on the roster probably also see them as potential future starters.

    We had two solutions to the problem, staring us in the face: go over the apron and bring back Mitch, or draft a backup center at 24 this year‘s draft. Either option would’ve been satisfactory. We chose door number three.

    @jledwardsiii.bsky.social‬
    Knicks have a little more competition in the backup center market with the Lakers dealing Ayton.

    One name I’m hearing to watch for with New York if he gets waived by Denver: Jonas Valanciunas.

    Nuggets just added Marvin Bagley.

    Jonas thoughts?

    It is very weird to me that we didn’t draft a center who we’d have on the books for ~$3M AAV going forward in the first round. That would be perfectly consistent with the second apron ducking strategy, it would be very low risk, and hey, who knows, the guy might even be good!

    But okay, some people regard any and all questioning of draft strategy as untoward. You can’t do it before we know how the players turned out because we don’t know how the players turned out, and you can’t do it after we know how the players turned out because that’s hindsight bias. I find it a bit circular, but I digress.

    It is utterly mind boggling to me given the center situation that we didn’t simply keep Onyenso, who I am not even particularly high on but is definitely a tall guy who can do some center stuff. I don’t see any defense of that one.

    We could’ve signed him to a two-way at literally no cost-against-the-cap! Under those circumstances we could’ve cut him if he had a bad summer league, if we were so inclined. On the flip side, if he looked good we could’ve signed him to a pro-rated rookie minimum during the season.

    And we didn’t do any kind of asset log rolling with the pick. We just…sold it.

    3

    Yes, chip, absolutely chip — but this draft exposed the incinerations and chars for what they always were and what they were always suspected to be.

    Maybe some undrafted player that’s playing in summer league or even a current G league C can be the 3rd string C. I’m less worried about that.

    Yep.

    I actually think our plan now is to wait for the best of the Last Centers Standing after free agency, so we can negotiate the cheapest contract possible. And to be honest, whoever that free agent is (Olynyk or worse), won’t be much of a difference from Hukporti, at least over a one-year span. Not saying it’s the right move, but it feels on brand.

    Yep.

    We’re getting one vet and one kid. And 35 minutes of KAT. The Knicks resigned Diawara, Shamet and Alvarado. They passed on all centers in the draft (and actually drafted and traded one).

    So we go into the season weak at backup center. At some point one of the guards and a bunch of 2nds will fetch us a really good center. That’s the power of being under the 2nd apron.

    And yes. Having that championship under our belt makes everything feel so fine.

    If Leon Rose ever reads this blog he’d probably laugh his ass off at all the complaints about draft incinerations and not having a backup center at the moment. Then he’d take the Larry Obrien trophy and stick it all up everyone’s ass…

    3

    I dunno, on my first excursion to Europe long ago, I went to a casino in Monte Carlo and it was a nice weekend night right around Bastille Day and so the tables were crowded and the non-high roller blackjack table was crowded and so some people had to share a spot to be able to play and this Italian guy invited me to play with him and things were going ok for awhile but then he started wanting to hit on 16 and the first time it worked and then he wanted to do a soft double (“Dooble. DOOBLE!!”) and that worked and so then he wanted to hit on 16 again and I, notwithstanding the Hendricks martinis, talked him out of it and then he wanted to do it again.

    Politely slinking away and keeping some powder for the other available morsals seemed like the best option, and so I wished him well and moved on.

    1

    We had two solutions to the problem, staring us in the face: go over the apron and bring back Mitch, or draft a backup center at 24 this year‘s draft. Either option would’ve been satisfactory. We chose door number three.

    Yup. Except there wasn’t actually a Door #3, it was just an open elevator shaft. Whoops.

    @jledwardsiii.bsky.social‬
    Knicks have a little more competition in the backup center market with the Lakers dealing Ayton.

    One name I’m hearing to watch for with New York if he gets waived by Denver: Jonas Valanciunas.

    Nuggets just added Marvin Bagley.

    Jonas thoughts?

    The way I understand the Jonas V situation: he has $10M due on the last year of his contract, only $2M of which is currently guaranteed. The guarantee date is July 8.

    If the Nuggets trade him before then, the contract goes with him. If they don’t, buy him out for the $2M and waive him, he’s going back to Lithuania on a commitment already made.

    Knicks couldn’t afford his contract under the second apron and the waiver path wouldn’t be an option if my understanding is accurate.

    https://basketnews.com/news-250406-jonas-valanciunas-zalgiris-nba-future-euroleague.html

    1

    Feel like Jonas is the first name brought up where I could see it happening.

    Skeptical wingstop can cover for his defense, let alone Alvie/Shamet/Deuce/Diawara.

    I’m sticking with the Spurs trading up to grab Reed messed up the plan to take him at 31. But yeah, Leon probably punts anyway.

    “The Celtics were 4.6 points/100 better with Brown on the bench.”

    The Knicks were 2.3 points/100 with Jalen Brunson on the bench.

    So what you are saying is that without Brown they would have won more than 56 games, just by replacing his minutes with someone from the bench, or by trading him for some generic wing? Okay.

    “They were 31.4pts/100 better in the playoffs.”

    They were also 34.8pts/100 better in the playoffs with Derrick White off the court. Maybe Jaylen coulda used some help? After carrying the team on his back the entire year? We were 8.8 points per 100 better when Mitch was off the court. Is that an accurate assessment of his impact on winning?

    “He collects stats, but they’re not additive. His game is grabbing defensive rebounds from teammates, but if you could do that for every stat.”

    Sorry, I’m not buying this, any more than I would about Josh Hart.

    “Granted, the Celtics are usually very good, so on another team he’ll probably be additive. But he’s the type of player to set a floor more than raise the ceiling of a good team. Works for Philly because getting to the playoffs is a struggle with Embiid never healthy.”

    Isn’t it kinda odd that this guy who doesn’t raise his team’s ceiling was the MVP of their only championship he played in? And it wasn’t because he put up fluky offensive stats. He was a menace on D and visibly the most impactful player on the court. Sure, you could have given it to Tatum, but even so, suggesting that Brown didn’t raise the ceiling of that team in that series would be laughable.

    Again, being the only all-star caliber player with by far the highest usage on a 56-win season didn’t just raise the ceiling on that team, it blew it off the building. The preseason odds had them at 41.5 wins!

    “The Celtics were 4.6 points/100 better with Brown on the bench.”

    So what you are saying is that without Brown they would have won more than 56 games, just by replacing his minutes with someone from the bench, or by trading him for some generic wing? Okay. BTW, the Knicks were 2.3 points/100 better with Jalen Brunson on the bench.

    “They were 31.4pts/100 better in the playoffs.”

    They were also 34.8pts/100 better in the playoffs with Derrick White off the court. Maybe Jaylen coulda used some help? After carrying the team on his back the entire year? BTW, we were 8.8 points per 100 better when Mitch was off the court in the playoffs, the worst of all rotation players. Is that an accurate assessment of his impact on winning?

    “He collects stats, but they’re not additive. His game is grabbing defensive rebounds from teammates, but if you could do that for every stat.”

    Sorry, I’m not buying this, any more than I would about Josh Hart.

    “Granted, the Celtics are usually very good, so on another team he’ll probably be additive. But he’s the type of player to set a floor more than raise the ceiling of a good team. Works for Philly because getting to the playoffs is a struggle with Embiid never healthy.”

    Isn’t it kinda odd that this guy who doesn’t raise his team’s ceiling was the MVP of their only championship he played in? And it wasn’t because he put up fluky offensive stats. He was a menace on D and visibly the most impactful player on the court. Sure, you could have given it to Tatum, but even so, suggesting that Brown didn’t raise the ceiling of that team in that series would be laughable.

    Again, being the only all-star caliber player with by far the highest usage on a 56-win season didn’t just raise the ceiling on that team, it blew it off the building. The preseason odds had them at 41.5 wins!

    Windhorst reporting that the Knicks’ championship dominance indirectly shrunk the NBA’s 2026 salary cap by lowering league revenues due to a shorter-than-expected postseason.

    I knew we should have thrown a few of those games…..

    Reading in here about Jaylen Brown you get the impression that he’s a bum from g-league!
    The guy was a finals mvp just 2 yrs ago…

    1

    Has any champion ever repeated while losing a major rotation piece for nothing while purposely foregoing all possible avenues for a reasonable replacement?

    Dude, there’s not many examples in our lifetime of title teams losing a major rotation piece for nothing.

    Mark Cuban letting Chandler walk is still the gold standard of hubris. They went from champions to swept out of first round the next year and never won another playoff series until Luka came along.

    Dolan pushing Mitch out is now the silver medalist.

    The Bucks dissing PJ Tucker takes the bronze.

    We’re on a very small list, and the company isn’t great.

    I’d like Jonas if I mount a Viking raiding party this summer….

    Perfect guy to come off the boat first.

    This is kind of crazy. I grew up with the beefiest frontcourt in history and we may be putting three packets of string cheese out there at times.

    I don’t like Briwn much either and am fascinated by all the current discourse but he’s definitely well thought of in the world, as the MVP voting indicates

    1

    “A big part of the Melo-Brown difference is that Melo was always the number 1 option on his team during his prime, and those teams were normally pretty good. Brown has played alongside a better player until this season.”

    Even with many good players on his team, a Melo-led team never won more than 54 games. In fact, two years after he was traded, Denver won 57 games. He never came close to doing what Brown did this year, especially when he had the caliber of players around him that Brown had.

    1

    I like on/off because IMO it captures some things that are either not in the boxscore at all or that get under or overrated by the popular AIO models. Still, it has some problems because of sample size, bench strength vs. starter strength, lineup issues, team fit, a player not being used properly etc…

    I still think it’s valuable if you look at multiple years because then the sample size rises and you often get a broader distribution of teammates, lineups, coaches, systems, bench players etc…

    IMO if you take a little extra time to add some subjective analysis to it to account for injuries, youthful development, age related regression, personal issues and lineup, coach, system and role I think you can do better than any of the popular AIO models that break down at certain extremes.

    Strict RAPM does a lot of that, but not all of it and since those models tend to be black boxes to to me and most others, I prefer on/off and a subjective analysis of lineups, roles, system, how the player fits and is used etc.. But I do look at RAPM also, especially for defense.

    When I’ve done that kind of analysis for Brown I’ve never been impressed, but that contains some of my subjective interpretations.

    @z-man, I’ll just direct you to the link Owen shared. That pretty much covers it.

    Melo led a Denver team to the Western Conference finals that was tied 2-2 with the eventual champs.

    That Denver team had some good role players but their second best player was probably an out of his prime Billups.

    Or even saying he’s better than Brown, just trying to correct your statement about how far he went. He did get to the conference finals once. Just not with us!

    Part of the reason Denver was still pretty good after Melo left was bc they got such a massive haul of players for him.

    1

    Of course no one serious would argue Brown’s consistently negative raw on/off numbers mean he’s literally a negative player. We’ve discussed the noise there ad nauseam, though Brown being in the red for 7 of his 10 seasons is pretty wild.

    But we have metrics that account for lineup pairings, opponent lineup strength, etc. and they all say the same thing–Brown is more good than great. I don’t quite understand the controversy here as it’s not particularly hard to understand why this might be the case–he’s not a particularly efficient scorer (especially for a wing), he turns the ball over a lot, and his defense comes and goes. Even Melo was a more efficient scorer by TS+ at his peak.

    I’ve always said the ability to score a lot at even reasonable efficiency is valuable in ways that plenty of metrics miss, and that applies to Brown. But you have to apply a hell of a multiplier in that regard to conclude it’s a good idea to pay him $60M+ AAV in a league with an increasingly hard cap.

    He had a great thing going on the Celtics when there was a more efficient usage monster and a bunch of lower-usage efficiency monsters, but as those guys started to get apron’d it’s easy to see why the Celtics felt like it wasn’t tenable to keep him at his salary.

    Even with many good players on his team, a Melo-led team never won more than 54 games. In fact, two years after he was traded, Denver won 57 games. He never came close to doing what Brown did this year, especially when he had the caliber of players around him that Brown had.

    Yes, so the difference between the perception of the two is that Melo was the go-to scorer and Brown has not been.

    Part of the reason Denver was still pretty good after Melo left was bc they got such a massive haul of players for him.

    Doesn’t this prove the case that there was a significant gap between Melo’s perceived and actual impact?

    wow, just read jaylen brown had 30k folks tuned in on his recent sitting home in a chair, in a room, ranting and raving show…

    that is some thing…

    If Leon Rose ever reads this blog he’d probably laugh his ass off at all the complaints about draft incinerations and not having a backup center at the moment.

    Idk why I’m responding to this earnestly, but I think Leon would get it. He knows fans are invested in the draft, and new ballers bring new forms of hope and excitement. After all, he still made two draft picks, and is probably excited about the challenge of finding diamonds in the rough late in the draft. That’s why he went out and got us Walt Perrin. Shit, maybe in 2032, all-star PG Jack Kayil will be throwing lobs to MVP candidate Mo Diawara on the regular?

    But also, I get not drafting a center with a late first for a team hoping to win back-to-back championships. Even if they play all 82 games, you’re going to want a seasoned vet taking those backup minutes in the playoffs.

    Another interesting development is that Thibs’s 2022-23 Moneyball strategy built around offensive rebounding has now caught on as a thing, which is a big reason Mitch wasn’t gettable at Moneyball prices.

    Teams have come to see (or at least believe) that they shoot higher percentages from downtown off the scrambles that tend to follow offensive rebounds and are starting to chase that.

    The loss of the “scramble effect” in Mitch’s minutes low key could leverage the impact on the Knicks’ offense to the downside. Let’s hope not.

    If Leon Rose ever reads this blog he’d probably laugh his ass off at all the complaints about draft incinerations and not having a backup center at the moment.

    If the question was posed: “Does at least one member of the Knicks’ basketball ops department read Knickerblogger?,” I’d answer, “Yes.”

    There’s no doubt whatsoever that at least three pretty significant writers read it. And those are only the ones with clear fingerprints at the scene of the crime.

    1

    “Yes, so the difference between the perception of the two is that Melo was the go-to scorer and Brown has not been.”

    Well first, Brown was the go-to scorer in many a game for the Celtics, even with Tatum on the team. Second, it the only year when he was indisputably the go-to scorer, he led his team to more wins than Melo ever did.

    The piece Owen posted is, imho, very misleading because Brown is a player whose full value is not reflected the box score. But more importantly, I actually agree on its main tenet…Jaylen Brown is not a “supermax” player. He is not at the same level as the all-time greats in today’s game: Jokic, Giannis, SGA, Luka, Steph, Durant, maybe even Tatum…that ilk of player. But he is without a doubt a top-20 player in the league, and impacts winning way more than is being suggested. This year actually proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt! Even his staunchest doubters here were eating some crow during the regular season! He was fucking sensational! I feel confident that most C’s fans that watched every game this year would tell you the same thing, even if they were frustrated with him in the past.

    That doesn’t mean he is worth what he is getting paid. But he has a lot of company in that regard. Personally, I don’t think KAT is a supermax player even with the improvement of late, and certainly not before it. De’Aaron Fox, Spida, Jamal Murray, Devin Booker, Evan Mobley, Paolo Banchero, Scottie Barnes, Bam Adebayo….none of these guys are true supermax players. My point is that Jaylen Brown is as good as any of these guys, and probably better than most.

    I hated that Jaylen Brown won that Finals MVP. The clear MVP of that team was Tatum. That Brown scored more because the Mavs were busy doubling Tatum doesn’t mean that Brown was the MVP.

    The worst example of that ever was when the Cavs played the Spurs, and Mike Brown practically TRIPLE-TEAMED Duncan on every possession, and Tony fucking Parker won MVP because Duncan didn’t score a lot due to Brown rightly noting that their only chance of winning was by keeping Duncan from dominating (but that, of course, just led to his support staff getting repeated open looks, and the Spurs swept).

    All snark aside listen I get the angst about losing Mitch. But we all knew losing him was a very possible scenario even before the 2nd apron bullshit. Same thing happened with iHart in terms of the likelihood of losing him, obviously it was a different scenario.

    The fact is though Mitch on the Knicks was 7th in minutes played during the regular season and 8th during the playoffs. Due to his health concerns that was probably the best case scenario too. The year before he was 12th in minutes played during the regular season and the Knicks still won 51 games. He was 6th in playoffs minutes and the Knicks did worse than this past postseason when Mitch played less mins per game during the playoffs.

    The top 7 players in minutes played during the playoffs are all back and that doesn’t even include Alvarado! As Ian Begley said the front office is very happy having the championship core returning and I don’t blame them for feeling that way even without Mitch coming back.

    1

    You can statistically analyse Brown as much as you want and proving him inefficient and overrated but…
    Finals MVP means Huge Balls at the highest level of competition.
    It’s not like getting the 3p competition or the dunks!

    1

    We fans can only speculate or imagine why Mitch was let go, why Brown got traded for peanuts, why Luka went to LA for a bag of chips or why Kessler was treated like he was Wilt Chamberlain.
    FOs KNOW stuff that we will probably Never learn so… let’s cut some SamPresti-ness!

    1

    The more I think about the loss of Mitch and Huk, the more I do worry about what’s this is going to do to our team come playoff time.

    Having Mitch back up KAT with a decent third string center in Huk gave our team a huge advantage. KAT and Mitch are great rebounders and having an elite defensive center back up an elite offensive center.

    And then being able to throw Huk in there for a few minutes in the finals when KAT was in foul trouble and Spurs were doing hack a Mitch.

    We’ve lost a huge edge at that position. Obviously KAT is still an elite offensive player, fantastic rebounder and now a decent defender, but replacing Mitch is going to be VERY hard.

    1

    I get the angst about losing Mitch. But we all knew losing him was a very possible scenario even before the 2nd apron bullshit. Same thing happened with iHart in terms of the likelihood of losing him,

    Its not like iHart. Boston didn’t over pay him $30mm+ aav.

    We did not loose Mitch. Leon kicked him out to the curb & did not want to employ him after his contract ran out so that MSG corporation makes more profit.

    2

    I am not going to post about the Jaylen Brown anymore because really who gives a shit about Jaylen Brown?

    I emailed my Diehard Celtics fan buddy from college to get his take, and he basically said that the new ownership is corporate and couldn’t care less about what the average fan thinks, similar to Dolan. He compared losing Jalen Brown this way to losing Mitch, mainly on the basis of them both being beloved homegrown talents. He also thinks that Brad Stevens does not look happy with new management and may have been forced into doing this, because he feels he’s too smart to have done it on his own. (sounds familiar?) He suspects that Brad may work his way back to the college ranks, which is more his passion.

    The benefit of Mitch was that he enabled tremendous lineup versatility. We could switch between his and KAT’s skillsets as needed and deal with almost any situation. We were amazing in the playoffs in part because we were so solid and resilient, and even the NBA’s best efforts to rig the finals with the two quick foul special on KAT every fucking game fell flat.

    That’s all gone now. KAT is the only avenue now to even approximate NBA rim protection, and otherwise we’re forced to go super small and maybe jeopardize OG’s health by having him play the 5.

    Any other C we bring in must necessarily be far below replacement level or cost a significant core piece. Mitch was worth WAY more to us than his salary. It’s just a staggering blunder and it’s the most Dolan thing ever.

    All I know is Leon and the scouts better be looking at every center vet in Europe right now. There’s gotta be some hidden gem like a mozgov type we can find in the world.

    Well we got Drummond for what looks like what we could realistically spend of the TPMLE! Not the worst pivot in the world. But think we’ll miss Mitch.

    think drummond is all but done. stats look passable but his rim defense is now mostly just the melo swipe and being large. he allowed 70% fg on shots within 6 feet last year which is hard to pull off as a 5. and that’s the strength compared to switching or hedging.

    They’re calling it a minimum deal. The figure just looks like the TP-MLE because we forget the vet min is just for cap purposes. Players over 2years of service keep getting raises on the minimum without it affecting the cap.

    So really it should only count as $2.45M.

    3

    he allowed 70% fg on shots within 6 feet last year which is hard to pull off as a 5.

    Jesus Christ, I haven’t seen a number like that since people were telling ruruland to stop trying to make Bargnani happen.

    Hope to god we get a more bona fide backup…

    I have us with about $5M (of $6M) to spend of the TP-MLE.

    Might be more or less based on the final contract numbers of the other guys.

    Drummond? Okay. For 10-15 minutes, yeah, I’ll take him. Now get a kid with upside to back him up.

    He’s at the very bottom of the picked over barrel but whatever. If we still have something close to the full, TPMLE, maybe something frees up in a trade for one of our minimum guys. Or we run out a who sucks less platoon between Drummond and Looney.

    Fine. Drummond. I can imagine that he may try harder in NY than Philly with that Nurse dude and the lousy Bulls. Better than nothing, I guess.

    We also have just enough for 2 vet minimum deals for a 15-man roster instead of 1 TP-MLE player for a 14-man roster.

    I’m assuming Kayil won’t be on the team in this scenario and Nickel will be.

    Drummond has never impacted winning.

    At this point we’re just hoping for someone who doesn’t impact losing too much.

    He may be useless on D but least he’s only the 2nd worst FT shooter in the league

    2

    I hated that Jaylen Brown won that Finals MVP. The clear MVP of that team was Tatum. That Brown scored more because the Mavs were busy doubling Tatum doesn’t mean that Brown was the MVP.

    I think you’re forgetting his phenomenal defense on Luka. In addition to being the top scorer he was like Stephon Castle on the other end.

    He’s a great defender. I’m glad they broke up their team cuz of us because White, Brown, Tatum, Mitch and any one of their try-hard wings would have been absolute hell to play against.

    For whatever its worth Drummond is a better defensive rebounder than Mitch.

    For whatever its worth Drummond is a better defensive rebounder than Mitch.

    Mostly because he doesn’t trouble himself with protecting the rim

    1

    Now get a kid with upside to back him up.

    The draft was a week and a half ago.

    6

    Having Mitch back up KAT with a decent third string center in Huk gave our team a huge advantage. KAT and Mitch are great rebounders and having an elite defensive center back up an elite offensive center.

    Look at the center depth of the three other top contenders:

    Thunder — Holmgren, Hartenstein, Williams, Sorber, Mara

    Spurs — Wemby, Kornet, Reid, Quaintence

    Celtics — Mitch, Queta, Garza, Cenac

    Leon and Thibs started this movement back when they had Mitch, Noel, and Gibson. Then Mitch and Hartenstein. Then KAT and Mitch. 48 minutes of quality C play is a cheat code. At some point in the playoffs we’ll suffer dearly if we don’t have it.

    The other guy should be more of a defensive stopper so that we can show that look. Then Drummond and that guy can fight it out to see who should be the backup over the backup backup. Missi would have been great there, but I still hold out hope for Cisse.

    If he’s the back up center come playoff time it’s no Bueno. But if we eventually make a move for a better back up big and Drummond is the third option then it’s ok. He’s a perfectly acceptable back up big for 15 minutes a night during the regular season.

    But damn dude.

    1

    Oh, the days when Drummond’s WP48 numbers were a hotly debated topic here …

    I guess for the minimum, whatever, he is what we could expect. We went for a “veteran guy” instead of someone with upside, but that is maybe OK agains 2/3ds of the league. Against better centers OG will still have to play spot C minutes. I still kind of expect some move for a better C, but that may well take until the trade deadline.

    Oh, the days when Drummond’s WP48 numbers were a hotly debated topic here …

    Somebody find and post these numbers so I feel less depressed

    Leon and Thibs started this movement back when they had Mitch, Noel, and Gibson. Then Mitch and Hartenstein. Then KAT and Mitch.

    Thibs, at least publicly, wanted it for rim protection, but its real value was in offensive rebounds and the scramble trifectas and slam dunks/putbacks that resulted. If they actually saw the OReb/Scramble 3 value before the rest of the league and consciously invested in it, then there’s no choice but to take your hats off to their vision. (I doubt they did, but it would be great to know for sure.)

    If you can *also* get elite rim protection on top of it, then yeah — that’s the modern NBA.

    FWIW EPM thinks Drummond was significantly worse than Huk last year 🙁

    It’s crazy Drummond, who I remember playing against the 54-win Melo team, is only 32.

    Wish Knickerblogger was around when Chris Dudley was the backup center.

    FWIW EPM thinks Drummond was significantly worse than Huk last year

    So do the Sixers.

    4

    EPM has Huk as an elite defender. 11th in the league elite. The other metrics don’t like his defense quite so much. They view his defense favorably, just nowhere near good enough to offset the terrible offense.

    I’m hoping this is a 3rd-string center move, and the real genius move is yet to come…

    He may end up sucking, but accountability matters. The Knicks are in no bullshit, leave it all out on the floor, mode. That has to light a fire under Andre. Like most every player that came to the Yankees during the Championship years of the 50’s, 70’s, and 90’s, nobody wants to screw up a winning team.

    1

    We all are, Ess-dog.

    Drumming just looks fat and slow to me but not like strong in a way that intimidates players and stops them from going to the rim.

    I hate this.

    But I will reserve judgement till the deadline in hopes this is not the final center we snag.

    1

    EB, if you wouldn’t mind, since I know you’ve got a spreadsheet, how far under the SA are we now with these 12:

    1 Towns
    2 Anunoby
    3 Brunson
    4 Bridges
    5 Hart
    6 Shamet
    7 Alvarado
    8 McBride
    9 Dadiet
    10 Diawara
    11 Kolek
    12 Drummond

    Welp..at least we have a backup C that still rebounds well and can shoot the occasional 3. He’s still half of Mitch tho. So the question is…do we bring Jemison back and let him develop more? Or do we try to grab a more established center? Also- do we have enough to convince Clarkson, Jemison, and Sochan to return?

    Welp..at least we have a backup C that still rebounds well and can shoot the occasional 3.

    “he’ll take the three. that one wasn’t close clyde”
    “a different stroke from mr. drummond, mike”

    4

    How the fuck is someone 6’11” and shoots .472 from the field????

    Andre Fucking Drummond. I remember watching the Sixers against the Knicks and when he came into the game, it was like, now we’re going to cook for certain.

    1

    I find myself increasingly open to godfathering the Bucks for Kel’el Ware. He’s got two years left on his rookie contract, and by the time his second contract begins he’d probably be able to start at the 5 with KAT at the 4 (or traded because we’re a small market team).

    A less godfather-y option from the 2024 draft is someone we actually drafted: the Suns’ Oso Ighodoro. Bonus points because he was Tyler Kolek’s teammate.

    Drummond was honestly one of our better realistic options. Which isn’t to say he’s very good.

    He’s still one of the best offensive rebounders in the league, elite in that category. He’s one of the few guys you can put in there and not expect a catastrophic dropoff in offensive rebounding with Mitch leaving. He’s horrifically slow and very roastable in the pick and roll.

    He’s was a Mitch-esque abomination at the FT line at one time, but makes a fairly steady 60% of them now and of course he has also added an almost acceptable 3 point shot.

    A better option then Kevon Looney probably.

    The Knicks clearly went for rebounding in their choice Drummond.

    Don’t sleep on the NBA California Classic on ESPN. Trevor Keels is lighting the court on fire.

    Best I can tell, we’re at ~$215.4M now. 12 players. 2nd apron is ~$221.7M.

    Seems like the options are :
    1) a partial TPMLE signing in the ~$4M range and one rookie minimum, like Nickel

    2) two vet-mins, which would allow us to sign a rookie minimum very early in the season (could convert a two-way like Nickel)

    2nd option seems more likely to me, especially given there’s a lot of Clarkson smoke (which I’m happy about). The portion of the TPMLE we have left is just a smidge more than the cash amount vet-mins receive anyway, so it’s hard to identify a candidate.

    According to Hoops hype. We may have close to 8.3 million left after the Drummond signing. Which means we still have all of the TPMLE with a minimum of 2 roster spots to fill.

    Current reporting by Ian Begley & others that we have just 5 million left seems to be wrong

    Hoops hype has us at 214.7 million but thats with Drummond at 3.9 million. Bring him down to 2.45 vet min that counts against the Salary would bring us to 213.3 million. 2Apron is 221.686 million.

    I’m not happy at all that Drummond is our backup C, whether instead of Mitch or in general.

    But I will say this: In the Knicks series, in the first 3 games he was -3, -3, and +3. Then came the debacle in game 4, where by the time he entered the game the Sixers were down 35-18. He’s not an automatic “we’re doomed in his minutes!” kind of player. Granted, he only played 35 minutes in the series but he played pretty well in those minutes. !6 rebounds (5 offensive) in 35 minutes is good.

    Meanwhile, in that series, Mitch was hardly much of a factor. He had a .465 TS%, a 16.3 OReb% (low for him) and had 6 Orebs in 3 games. He only played 47 minutes (was out for a game) so it’s hard to draw much of a conclusion beyond we won game 2 without him.

    But in the 7-game series vs. Boston, Drummond played pretty well. He played 15mpg, scored 33 points on a .933 eFG%, and knocked down a couple of critical 3 pointers. In their 4 wins he was a +22.

    My hope (not expectation) is that he realizes that he is on a defending championship team and filling big shoes, and that after talking to Brown, Brunson and Leon among others, he reports in the best shape of his later career and does his best to narrow the gap between him and Mitch. He never even got out of the first round before last year, and maybe he’s got some untapped gas in the tank.

    He’s maybe the strongest guy in the NBA and no one is moving him in the post on either end. He’s one of the great rebounders in NBA history…he led the league in offensive rebounding for 7 straight years. He was first on OReb% for 4 years and in the top-3 for 7 years. Is he cooked at age 32? Can he be coached up?

    In that sense, it’s a fine low-risk/high-reward play. Just totally uninspiring. But at the end of the day, we knew that once we were locked into the hard cap at the 2nd apron, it was at best either losing Shamet and possibly Alvarado and Mo, or replacing Mitch with one of these picked over types. Drummond is probably not the worst of the bunch.

    Seems like the options are :
    1) a partial TPMLE signing in the ~$4M range and one rookie minimum, like Nickel

    We could actually get to a full 15 man roster by using the TPMLE at 4 million as you suggested.
    Vet min at 2.45
    Then Nickel at 1.35
    And still be 500,000 short of 2nd Apron

    It also seems like if Aller does his thing and shaves some money off the contracts of some of our recent signees (Remember how he did that with Yabu last year?) he could wrangle something pretty close to the full TPMLE ($5+M) plus minimums to fill in the roster.

    Or if we don’t use the TPMLE, maybe a more compelling reason and opportunity to go into the second apron arises. My understanding is that we still could theoritically do that, no?

    Best I can tell, we’re at ~$215.4M now. 12 players. 2nd apron is ~$221.7M.

    Seems like the options are :
    1) a partial TPMLE signing in the ~$4M range and one rookie minimum, like Nickel

    2) two vet-mins, which would allow us to sign a rookie minimum very early in the season (could convert a two-way like Nickel)

    2nd option seems more likely to me, especially given there’s a lot of Clarkson smoke (which I’m happy about). The portion of the TPMLE we have left is just a smidge more than the cash amount vet-mins receive anyway, so it’s hard to identify a candidate.

    I wonder if Dipshit will permit signing Clarkson to his non bird max (4.2M) and adding two vet min players.

    This would take us over the SA by about $2-$3m but it would be very easy to get under it during the season.

    The benefits are getting Clarkson back at a useful salary and getting two more bites at the vet min apple. As the season wears on we can discard whichever vet is working the least well.

    Honestly I would settle for Clarkson at $4.2 and just one vet min (Sochan?). That would take us like $600k over the SA, which should be no big deal. But the way things are going it seems like we might as well be hard capped already.

    Ok so my positive thinking about Drummond is that he can play more minutes and games than Mitch but won’t have to play as many minutes or games with the Knicks backing up KAT as he did having to back up Embiid.

    Or if we don’t use the TPMLE, maybe a more compelling reason and opportunity to go into the second apron arises. My understanding is that we still could theoritically do that, no?

    I dont see how. Going over 2nd apron at this point would just be foolish. If we were going to do that it would have been for Mitch.

    At this point the most we can offer anyone is the Full TPMLE, and then vet minimums. And if we actually use the Full TPMLE that would hard cap us and we wouldn’t even be allow to cross that threshold.

    I don’t really think that Leon would be allowed to go into the second apron at this point. I’m just mentioning that it was still possible if we don’t use the TPMLE.

    I dont see how. Going over 2nd apron at this point would just be foolish. If we were going to do that it would have been for Mitch.

    Mitch would have put us irrevocably over the second apron. Bringing back Clarkson and Sochan is just temporary.

    It’s unclear the extent of the owner’s stupidity, although it seems safe to assume maximum at this point. He should trust the front office to be competent enough to manage it, but it doesn’t seem like he does.

    Drummond is mostly an offense-oriented player at this stage of his career, as offensive rebounding and his newly intriguing stretch big-ness are his most appealing commodities.

    I’d maybe forget about Valanciunas and instead go with a defense-oriented guy as the 3rd center. Bismack Biyombo, Charles Bassey, Mouassa Cisse, somebody like that who you can put in the game as a defensive sub to get you a stop or two.

    1

    I’m not all that fond of his game.

    But I will admit I’ve always wanted to hear Clyde say the name Bismack Biyombo.

    Why do we think that Cisse is available? He’s an RFA with Dallas, the team we screwed out of Jalen Brunson. Seems pretty low probability to me.

    “But I will admit I’ve always wanted to hear Clyde say the name Bismack Biyombo.”

    OAKAAK Nerlens Noel is only 32…

    I know they didn’t repeat, so it’s technically moot, but the Warriors did lose David Lee, who played Mitch minutes, to the Celtics to avoid paying luxury tax and still came back and won 73 games.

    [edited to add: call this the Owen mancrush curse]

    3

    If Leon Rose ever reads this blog he’d probably laugh his ass off at all the complaints

    If Leon reads this blog it’s just for the TV recs.

    3

    The hilarious thing is that Drummond made a big point the other day to say that he was done taking discounts.

    And, technically, he was correct. 😉

    It seems like we swapped Huk for Drummond with Philadelphia. Long term, Huk is much younger so he will probably be more valuable in the future. But for just next season it seems like a positive swap for us.

    According to Hoops hype. We may have close to 8.3 million left after the Drummond signing. Which means we still have all of the TPMLE with a minimum of 2 roster spots to fill.

    Current reporting by Ian Begley & others that we have just 5 million left seems to be wrong

    Hoops hype has us at 214.7 million but thats with Drummond at 3.9 million. Bring him down to 2.45 vet min that counts against the Salary would bring us to 213.3 million. 2Apron is 221.686 million.

    It’s HoopsHype’s arithmetic that’s faulty. I knew something was off, because they are presuming Diawara’s contract to be 3y/$10M, rather than 4y/$10M, which should reduce NYK’s available space. Yet somehow the salary sum total suggests more.

    The answer to the riddle is that Dadiet’s salary is listed in HH’s NYK payroll table, but not in the summed total, an almost $3M swing.

    2

    Leave a Reply

    This site uses User Verification plugin to reduce spam. See how your comment data is processed.