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228 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.06.30)”
without even having a coach in place i am supposing that it should probably be a signal to us that we are not going to make any kind of splash in free agency or trades should be as much of a dud day for us as draft day was i guess maybe it is for the best but it is difficult to know without knowing who the coach will be
What would we make a splash with? We used up 2 years worth of flexibility last summer.
All worth it, of course, to make “the leap” from a 50 win team with terrible injury luck to a 51 win team with incredible injury luck.
Don’t know if I’m in the minority on this, but as Waterboy for the ‘Bring Em All Back’ team (I’d be Captain but I don’t want that kind of responsibility), I’m fine if we’re quiet over the next few weeks.
Would kind of appreciate having a coach, but I’m not feeling strongly about any of the current candidates, so I can live with the embarrassment for a while there, too.
And the Mets have the day off, so I don’t have to concern myself there, either. It’s a worry-free Monday!
for our current situation making a splash could consist of picking up pretty much anyone who we will actually play picking up luke kennard would be quite a coup for example how likely is it no idea
Espn says we should try to pick up Bruce Brown or Kennard and that we have interest in Horford and Kornet. I would be fine with any of those and also not mind if we used one of our minimum slots on TJ Warren – he’s still only 31, he might have enough gas in the tank to be useful.
Aw man, the Wolves are supposedly shopping Donte for cap space.
I think if we wanted TJ Warren on the team, he’d have been on the team ahead of Shamet last year. (Or ahead of player-coach PJ Tucker.)
Right, I’m just saying I wouldn’t mind him this year. If we get Kennard or Brown, Shamet would be redundant.
uhhhh between letting go of shamet or cam payne the choice is pretty easy for me cam payne can go
30 teams passed on TJ Warren last year. I’m not against bringing him in if he’s the best guy, but it seems unlikely that he’ll be the best guy
If we pass on Cam, the question becomes how comfortable we feel with Deuce and Kolek at the point.
Deuce isn’t great at running the point, so it’d largely be up to Kolek to shoot and defend well enough to stick on the floor.
Is there another PG we can conceivably get that’s better than Payne?
Does Tyus Jones go for the minimum again?
Does CP3 move farther from his family for a (perceived by players) championship shot?
Are Kolek and Deuce good enough to stand pat?
I think Lue and Payne are the most likely options and are upgrades over Kolek & Deuce.
If we bring em all back we’ll probably have to be quiet over the next 2 years.
lue and payne?
i guess ty jerome does not play point either
but i think that you are forgetting delon wright he is a great pure point and we already have him on our roster he is a huge reason we do not need cam
Wright is a free agent right now. I’d be happy to bring him back on a vet minimum.
And Ty Jerome will get way more than the taxpayer midlevel.
Here me out.
Let Cam go and resign Delon and Shamet.
Then trade Deuce to The Twolves for DDV!
Would that be possible?
Brunson/Delon/Kolek
Mikal/DDV
OG/Shamet
KAT/Hart
Mitch/Huk/???
At least it’s a very good year to be a flawed team.
This past year we had to run a gauntlet to win the title, beating championship caliber teams in rounds 2, 3, and 4.
Now it’s probably just us and Cleveland in the East, and even though they’re better than us I’d hardly consider them unbeatable.
OKC winning helps us, I think, bc it’s very hard to repeat. I doubt the western representative in the NBA finals next year will be as daunting as this year.
So if we nail the coach, we likely have a much better shot at the title next year simply bc the tide is going down.
With Brock Aller it might be.
i like it a lot walkerbender but start ddv over mikal
I would be super-sad to see Deuce go, but at least we’d be able to get rid of that depressing Villanova ad.
You’re kidding, right?
First of all you have to match salaries, and we can’t do that with just Deuce. Second, if Minny wants the cap space, then we’d need a 3rd team with cap space (Brooklyn?) to absorb Deuce and more (or just Mitch), so we can take DDV back. Plus, the third team will want compensation for that – maybe a 2nd rounder each from the other two teams.
I guess it could happen with Mitch if we knew we were getting another backup center (Nance?) with the TPMLE, but then you’re starting KAT at center.
In other words, your dream scenario would be pretty difficult to figure out.
Me too BUT if Minny is trying to save money, Deuce would do that. And while I think DDV is better overall, Deuce is a pretty good young piece for them to get back in return.
Plus, Deuce is more of a combo guard. He’s a good defender but DDV is a pure SG and is also a good defender (if not quite as tough or aggressive as Deuce). If you have Delon, the defense in the second unit doesn’t lose much losing Deuce.
DDV, Hart and Shamet should be plenty of fire power and offense for that second unit.
As far as starting DDV over Mikal, I think I’d still go with Mikal but DDV could play A LOT of minutes if he has it going.
No, I’m not. I don’t really follow or care to follow all the minutia of the cap. That’s why I asked, so others who are more knowledgable could answer.
So I was watching a random highlights vid of our game 1 win vs. Boston, and remembering that going in to that series, we were supposed to get our asses kicked by the prohibitive title favorites. And we proceeded to take them down in 6 games.
Yes, the Pacers series sucked and we can argue forever about how it would have gone if we hadn’t blown game 1, but damn, we beat the fucking Boston Celtics in 6 games! And for all his flaws, Mikal Bridges was a huge part of that.
So I’m firmly on team “run it back with a new coach”. If it doesn’t work this time around, ok, then start looking to retool the roster. But let’s give it one more shot, the East is weak man!
Something like Deuce + Precious S&T for 1yr at $7.7M (plus non-guarantee for multiple years to meet S&T rules), then send the WAS 2nds somewhere. Probably more 2nds to either Brooklyn (or whoever) or Minnesota.
Might cost a lot of 2nds, assuming there’s a number of 2nds that gets the deal done at all.
I’m not sure the juice is worth the squeeze. Deuce was part of a lot of our best lineups.
ok then i will say this if we keep deuce and we probably will then we should definitely give him a nice loooong look in the starting lineup over mikal with mikal and joshie anchoring a great bench unit
Karl Anthony Towns made approximately $10M more than Randle & Donte.
Mikal Bridges made about $5M more than Bojan.
Aller managed to close the salary gap in both deals. Shake Milton was involved, and somehow Serbia was, too.
I don’t know how exactly but I think Deuce and Donte is within the Aller margin.
It’s a good idea, Swift.
It won’t happen. But it’s a good idea.
Why? Cause DDV yelled at Rick Brunson during a pre-season game?
Sounds like Dorian Finney-Smith is heading to Houston. That’s gonna be a very tough team next year.
Does anyone have a reliable breakdown of exactly what we can and can’t do second apron wise?
I think with our current roster situation we’re at 10 players including Huk, and $11,514,776 under the second apron. So we can use the full TPMLE ($5,685,000), sign one vet-minimum contract ($2,296,271), and then sign two 0-to-1 year minimum contracts ($1,272,869 and $2,048,491 respectively). That puts us at 14 and we’d have to wait until the prorated minimum would still keep us under the second apron to sign a 15th player, like last season.
You could also break this down differently by not using the full TPMLE, giving you more flexibility to sign vet-minimums instead of 0-to-1 year minimums.
I could also be totally wrong about all of this and will be running it by Jeremy Cohen shortly, but if someone can correct me in the meantime, by all means.
The window to retool changes drastically, though.
Josh Hart at 30 coming off 2.5 productive years and with 2 years left on his deal is likely worth considerably more than Josh Hart at 31 on an expiring. He’s the chip I’d be looking to cash in on this summer.
Bridges is a lot harder to figure. If he signs an extension and bounces back, he’ll be easy to move. If he signs an extension and plays mediocre basketball for a 3rd straight season, he’ll be an albatross.
I think they are both free agents and Shamet may draw interest from others. We may not have a choice. And I think Delon is a free agent too
Don’t teams sometimes like expiring contracts though? Like they want to get off of a longer contract but still get back someone who can help for a season (or they trade at the deadline to a contender looking for a playoff boost?)
Jeremy has confirmed my breakdown is accurate with the caveat that there are minor variations in the reported second apron, but they’re probably too minor to matter. So with that said, a somewhat realistic, non-exhaustive, list of guys I’d be satisfied with at every slot:
TPMLE: Kennard, Yabu, Tyus Jones, Horford, Lopez, Coffey, Russell
Vet-Min: Lonnie Walker, Cam Payne, Shamet, Delon Wright, Thomas Bryant, Trent Jr., Armando Blumenthal, Dinwiddie, Gary Payton Jr., Nance Jr., Taurean Prince
0-to-1 Min: Kevin McCullar and Anton Watson, I guess
There’s some flexibility here–some of the TPMLE guys wouldn’t get the full thing and some of the vet-min guys might get some of the TPMLE instead–but I don’t think I’ll be wildly off base about how much any of these guys wind up getting.
Wright looked more valuable to mine eye than Thib’s beholders. I would like to see him back. If KAT can learn, Horford would be like the guy. Otherwise, let’s clock right this shit.
My bad. I think I got your posts confused with TNFH’s.
Also FYI it’s being reported that other teams are interested in Shamet, so he might not be a slam dunk to return for the minimum.
And I agree with EB. As much as I like DDV, swapping him for Deuce probably doesn’t make any positive difference in the long run. Plus, we really need a guy 6’8″ or taller coming back if we’re trading Mitch. I also don’t think other teams value Hart as much as we do, not that Leon would trade him anyway.
That said, I’m very curious about what they will do, as I don’t think Leon wants to stand pat.
Bc I think we really like Deuce and I don’t think we are motivated to bring Donte back.
And also bc we have OG and KAT on such bloated contracts that we probably need the savings as much as Minnesota. I imagine there are some pretty steep apron consequences of adding $8M in a trade.
I’m pretty sure we could legally trade for DDV by sign-and-trading Precious at around TPMLE amount and including Deuce and Kolek with the latter going to a 3rd team, but then we’d have 8 guys under contract and getting to 14 while staying under the second apron would be very difficult.
Not impossible, and we’d have to do it no matter what because aggregating players triggers it as a hard cap, but our deep bench would be ugly.
I would rather keep Deuce
Even though everyone’s most down on Mikal, I think the KAT trade is what really killed us.
He’s almost 30 and has only underperformed in the playoffs. I like the guy, but he is so far from being worth 50 mil a year.
Idk what kind of trade you could do with him – maybe to Phoenix for a group of players – but I really think he will be holding us back.
I don’t believe this would require us to stay under the 2nd apron.
Precious can be S&T with his bird rights and only the team receiving a player needs to stay under the 2nd apron.
The more difficult part is that I don’t think we can package Precious with another player, so we’d need to send picks.
We can sign Precious up to the max thanks to bird rights. If we did not want to include Kolek, we wouldn’t need to include him as long as we send enough picks.
You can then re-sign Cam & Shamet for a small increase since they’re returning players and you’re not avoiding the cap. Then add a couple guys for the minimum.
I should add James Nnaji to my list of baby minimum candidates. He’s free to try to hold out for more and/or try to get his draft rights traded, but in the Age of the Aprons the best approach for someone like him may well be to just get the guaranteed money ASAP and then get to work on his second contract.
I am not worried about KAT for next year. I think we are 50-55 win team again. Is what it is.
But I am really worried about a long term deal.
I would also love to bring Wright back, he seems like about as good a value as you can expect from a vet minimum and slots into our roster well.
The “sign-and-trade Precious alone” option doesn’t, but I was assuming we’d need to trade Deuce for value purposes, so the aggregation triggers it.
i thought that the suns could not aggregate players
They were both pretty bad.
Randle ending up on an extremely reasonable extension has definitely re-contextualized the KAT trade. Obviously no way of knowing if he would have been amenable to the same deal here but getting out in front of Julius’ contract situation always seemed to me like a key part of the motivation for the deal and that part looks a lot less clever a year later imo.
As did Detroit going from the worst team in the NBA to the 6th seed in the East.
Getting that pick thrown in when its value was low is what winning the margins looks like.
I’m going off memory of the rules, so you’re probably right.
I still don’t really know that it’s worth it to go from Deuce to Donte, add a bunch of salary, and deplete whatever assets we have left. But that’s another discussion.
I don’t think the Knicks can do much at the start of free agency. Which, I guess is a mix of a good thing (have solid foundation) and a not so good thing (the need to make some changes).
But, I kind of see 2 needs/wants.
One would be a PF so we can slide OG to the 3. He can probably impact the game more when playing small forward. That would also make him very switchable to the 4, etc. But it would help with the team rebounding, because OG isn’t the greatest rebounder.
The other need I would like to add is another ball handler or 2. One common item with a lot of the top teams is they have multiple playmakers on the court at the same time. The Knicks sort of needed Brunson to generate all the playmaking. He even had to bring the ball up the court the majority of the time. Another ball handler would enable him to play off the ball more and also not get so beat up by teams that full court press him.
I am not sure how this is accomplished. The past idea of a Lonzo Ball (healthy version) type player would be good.
Maybe we consider trading players such as Mitch or Hart to add a ball handler and get deeper?
I think we have a highly skilled team that doesn’t seem to fit that great together. It is strange saying that when we were in the ECF.
I find this sentiment very, very hard to square with Mikal and KAT’s respective playoff performances.
In the playoffs
Mikal avg 16, 5 and 3 on 52 TS
Towns 21 and 12 on 59 TS
Towns trade def did not kill the Knicks. I’ll take the star over the 5 pick role player anyday
spencer dinwiddie might be someone we can get with flagg klay christie hardy exum causing a glut of guard and wing types there
KAT costed two useful players, Mikal costed none. I know 5 picks is a big number, but how do you get a useful player just at 20 million, sending nobody meaningful in return?
KAT is a poor fit, and I dont think his individual numbers translate to team success.
Love this menu type framing. Thanks you TNFH.
Leon and Gersson: We all know you follow this site. Unless you’re swapping KAT with Giannis, – this is what winning the summer looks like:
TPMLE: Al Hortford
Vet Min: Taurean Prince
0 – to 1: Kevin McCullar
well said tho i would rather get horford than hortford quite honestly i would rather get kornet if at all possible but horford would be a good consolation
Well, I think KAT himself is a very useful player, so the net loss was one useful player with the idea being KAT + whatever you cobble together as a DDV replacement > Randle + DDV. The jury is out, but I think us having the second best odds to win the finals next year reflects the consensus that our upside is higher with KAT.
Meanwhile the opportunity cost of Mikal may well literally be Giannis Antetokounmpo.
i would rather not think that so we should pretend that no way was giannis coming here anyway that will feel better if he stays a buck
KNICKS 2025, – With all due respect sir, – piss off.
We would have been a better playoff team with Randle and DDV. The opportunity cost of KAT might have been a trip to the finals. But, as your scenario, that is hypothetical. The reality is that we were a defensive team built around an iso-Brunson offense and had complimentary players around him, but we threw that identity away. Now we dont take full advantage of our defensive abilities, neither of our offensive abilities, even if the sum of individual talents is greater than before.
What I say plays along the lines that KAT raises our floor, but lowers our ceiling. We win games by sheer talent, but our team does not click in way that can throw opponents off.
FWIW, Shams is reporting that we’ll see some very big deals tonight.
Don’t know if he means signings or trades. They were talking about free agent signings, but there’s just not much cap space out there.
https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1939738935221006555
I think I get it now. Mezzanine at high tide bad, mezzanine at low tide good?
it seems to keep being forgotten that we needed to get a starting center once hartenstein left mitch was going to be out for the first 80 percent of the season
Charlotte bought out Jordan Clarkson. He’s probably not the guy I’d use the TPMLE on, but we definitely could use another guy who can create something out of nothing with the ball in his hand.
The KAT disrespect on this blog has gotten absurd.
i want jordan clarkson about as much as i want dlo or poole or simons which is to say not at all but how did charlotte buy him out last i knew he was still with the jazz
At times I feel like I watched a completely different season than everyone else.
Yeah, yesterday was hot around here, but mostly from Lisbon to the south so i managed to have better temp. Maybe 95F in Valongo, where i live, because we have some mountains between us and Porto, there it was 90F or below because they have the atlantic ocean acting as an air conditioner (LOL!).
Oh no – we are going after Westbrook.
From Fischer’s latest dispatch:
So…Westbrook. I mean, I can kinda, sorta squint and see a case for him as a floor-raiser for bench units, but he’ll be 37 and I’m not sure my TV would survive all the stupid stuff. Please pass. Vastly prefer the Jones smoke.
The Mikal trade was unequivocally worse but I get the sentiment.
KAT changed the whole identity of the team. He makes the list of what we need much longer at a time when we don’t have what it takes to get it.
They were both bad trades.
I’m far from a Leon Rose stan, and I find him to be quite frustrating, but I mean, the regular season and playoff wins came from SOMEWHERE, right? KAT was pretty productive in some of those games.
Somehow we managed the 3 seed and ECF with a bunch of players who don’t translate to wins. This is getting a little bit silly.
I’d say the most impactful players on the team, in order, were:
1. Brunson
2. KAT
3. OG
4. Hart
5. Bridges
6. Mitch
7. Deuce
8. Everybody else
hard no on westbrook at any price except maybe for free maybe not even then hard yes for tyus jones on a good deal
I find this to be a rather dubious proposition, but even if we accept it, how exactly does a Randle-for-KAT swap contribute to this? Randle is not a better defensive center than KAT.
What kind of lineup flexibility, options, etc. did we have before the trade that we no longer have?
Westbrook interest tells me the Knicks are looking to speed up the offense. They don’t get any easy points and play very slow with Brunson
* this isn’t me saying I want the Knicks to sign him
Put it this way: after the Mikal trade, we just needed a platoon C. And we could have traded Deuce along with Precious, one of the rookies, and the Detroit pick to get one.
Now we need a starting PF who can shoot threes and protect the rim plus a good bench piece, all with the TPMLE. And Mike fucking Brown is the favorite to be our next coach.
And of course KAT’s an idiot who might be impossible to win a championship with.
I disagree (somewhat, Randle as a small ball 5 is not something we often saw). Randle can be maddening by complaining to the refs and not getting back on defense, but he adapted better to whatever defensive scheme. He is way more switchable than KAT, which is useful if you have other switchable players, like OG (and also Bridges and Hart in a lesser degree). Also, I think Randle ball handling was more useful to the offense than KAT’s shooting.
I know the key question is if we would have survived without a true center until Mitch could came back and give at least 20 something minutes. I sincerely don’t know, but after years of the blog crying for Thibs to go small, I convinced myself that it was a good idea and wanted to see it. And Bridges/OG seemed to support that direction.
And then, you have the need to have Mitch/Gobert next to KAT to really work defensively, but then KAT production drops quite a lot.
KAT for LeBron 🙂
When the Knicks got KAT the thought was the wing trio would be able to cover the defensive issues. To bad Bridges was a flop on defense ..
DLo would be amazing. I find it confusing when the Knicks border on being likeable. He would set everything back to normal. Make it happen, Leon!
From strictly a value proposition, I don’t think it can be disputed that the KAT trade was a plus. I think that at the time he had more trade value now than the package we gave up for him, especially given Randle’s contract situation. Is that still true, even given how things have developed? Maybe, maybe not. It’s certainly debatable.
But that doesn’t mitigate the atrocious defensive fit of KAT and Brunson. Folks can wishcast that issue away all they want, but it ain’t going anywhere. If anyone thinks that a new coach is going to figure it out and that we should run it back with those two in the starting and finishing lineups, stay tuned for another disappointing playoff loss, likely before the conference finals.
Btw I find it pretty rich that some of the same folks whining about KAT being disrespected were the ones who called Randle the most detrimental player in the NBA and whose extension was on the verge of being the worst albatross contract in the association.
Re: Westbrook, I’m just gonna hope Leon is doing him or his agent a leverage solid…
And look, I also thought Mikal was suboptimal this year, but he can’t cover for KAT and Brunson on defense.
Thibs wouldn’t have used Randle as a small ball C ever, under any circumstances. He would have just played Jericho Sims for 2500 minutes.
With neither the Bridges nor KAT looking so good, and the Quentin Grimes trade before them also looking like a stinker, and the leading candidates for our coaching vacancy inspiring no one, I think it’s fair to ask:
Would the Knicks be in considerably better shape today if Leon Rose had been in a coma since Jan 2024?
The answer is definitely yes.
Well, you called the notion that Randle would sign the exact extension he just signed “preposterous,” and said that if Leon Rose was the one offering it Randle’s agent should tell him to “go fuck himself.” So we all have our hits and misses.
Well now that Thibs is gone , the Randle at small ball C question is back on the table, isn’t it?
Previous Season’s Results were absolutely fine and Eliminating the Celtics was the Peak of this Roster but running it back just don’t make me excited…
Need More Cowbell… something new…
A different kind of Spark
it is 4 p.m. i think this is when free agency officially starts dlo is an absolute knucklehead who has not matured either on or off the court if we are going to get that archetype then sign me up for schroder who i do not love but love much more than dlo
donnie does not have our best interests in mind obviously
I actually like what I’ve seen of Westbrook’s personality. His current numbers, not so much.
Westbrook or Schroeder would spice things up and offer much from the bench.
Don’t let their dick face blur the fact that they can still play BIG if it’s needed
Actually Randle did exactly what I said he should do and li and behold he is no worse off, is he? He is happy where he is and decided not to test free agency, not because of his underwhelming play (he clearly outperformed KAT in this playoff run) but because there aren’t teams with cap space. So sure, I’ll own that one…so long as you own literally the stupidest player assessment ever when it comes to Randle. At the very least, own the irony of your defense of KAT against warranted criticism.
The problem is, Leon’s best move (Brunson) combined insider knowledge with the ability to predict success for him in a larger role than we had seen up to that point.
But with Mikal, KAT, et al., this was not the case. In fact, most of those moves were probably based partially on a form of wishcasting (hoping for a return to form, etc.)
Leon’s done a pretty decent job overall, but I’m just not sure he can replicate the Brunson deal, which is probably what it would take to catapult us to the next level.
Randle and KAT had almost identical numbers in the playoffs, for what it’s worth.
I was admittedly very down on Randle when he was coming off a season in which he had the 29th ranked TS% out of 29 players with his usage or higher. I will own thinking that was a very bad season that augured negatively for his value moving forward. He deserves a lot of credit for ceasing to have such terrible seasons in the ones that followed.
That said, I still think criticism of Randle following that season is more warranted than criticism of KAT following this past one, in which he made an all-NBA team
We would have much worse last year if we didn’t make the KAT trade but we’d be in much better shape right now if we didn’t make the KAT trade.
It was helpful but shortsighted.
KAT making an all-NBA team is literally the weakest argument for defending him right now. Randle had two all-nba seasons and was on his way to a third before he got submarined by Jaquez, and at a fraction of the salary. KAT built up monster numbers until teams adjusted to what he was doing…then the all-NBA play dried up. I believe that was about the time that you talked about how the Knicks would not have been interesting were it not for the trade, and that KAT was a legitimate MVP candidate, etc.
KAT is probably worth it if we can make the defense work with him at the 5. If we’re forced to move him to the 4, then it probably wasn’t worth it.
Randle On the Knicks.
AGH! Randle is so frustrating! We can never win with him!
Randle not on the Knicks.
Randle is the best! We should have kept him!
And we can’t do that if we run it back. So…
A lot of chatter about LeBron being on the move, and that the Utah trade yesterday that made no sense has something to do with them being the facilitator.
Westbrook?
What is Dolan back in charge?
Maybe KAT will shoot more threes this year.
Stefan Bondy
@SbondyNBA
Mike Brown is the first Knicks candidate to get a second interview, the Post has learned
After the second interview, then the Knicks will need to call Mike’s references.
If you care about BPM, Randle had a much better playoffs overall… shouldered more of the offense and played non-negative defense.
Of course, their roles and schemes were different. KAT got almost double the rebounds of Randle, but Randle averaged a lot more assists and shot significantly better from three, which is crazy.
Hopefully the new coach can put KAT in more passing and catch-and-shoot situations.
I’d be terribly disappointed if Mike Brown is the guy.
Both Randle’s bad year and KATs medicore 2nd half should be viewed in light of the circumstances.
Randle had no real PG for most of that season, the spacing was often terrible, he had no real scoring help and the book was out on him and the Knicks after the Atlanta series the year before. If you double Randle, you can slow him down badly and the Knicks had nothing else. I must have posted that same thought about 100 times during that period. That year was an obvious toss if you looked beyond the boxscore and instead asked “why”. Then we got Brunson and as I expected he had a bounce back year.
This year KAT got off to a great start, but for much of the 2nd half of the season he was playing with bad hand that clearly impacted his shot at times (I’m still wondering if he had off season surgery but I haven’t heard anything). The chemistry between him and Brunson was poor once they started guarding KAT differently. He also played on a bum knee at times when he probably should have been given a night off . But I think the biggest reason for the mild second half swoon was Thibs never adjusted the offense to the way he was being defended. That was my biggest reason for turning on Thibs. He had two powerhouse offensive weapons and two excellent 3rd and 4th options and there was almost no positive synergy at all. IMO, with better coaching and a more generous Brunson, Towns will be fine.
You are not the only one. He’s going to have to prove me wrong. I’m already thinking about how many projected wins will get me to bet the “under”.
It’s really not about KAT the player in a vacuum. It’ about opportunity cost, salary vs. cap, and fit.
Well, there is the issue of KAT’s defense…which is sort of about KAT the player he n a vacuum. But at $30M AAV you could justify benching him in situations where defense matters more than offense. But never, ever can that be justified when he’s by far the highest paid player on the team. Well, maybe if you have a superstar like Wemby on a rookie deal plus a Brunson-level player on his deal, plus a Naz Reid to sub in for him in those situations.
For the cap nerds:
Vorkunov
@mikevorkunov.bsky.social
Mike Brown has .600 career win %
Thibs .580
He used to get benched for defense from time to time with the T-Wolves. It’s part of the the story with him that you have to live with. To me, Brunson is an even worse defender. It’s just harder to bench him when he’s getting killed because he handles the ball and scores.
Strat if Mike Brown is the head coach bet the over, winning regular season games won’t be a problem with Mike Brown. He is by far the safest bet to coach the Knicks and keep them winning 50+ games next couple of seasons. Now will he be able to get them over the hump in the playoffs is a different story but he has a track record of being a very good head coach just as Thibs had.
KAT was arguably the biggest reason the Knicks won Games 3 and 4 at Detroit, against Boston he had 4 games with 20 and 10 then singlehandedly won Game 3 at Indiana while averaging 25 and 12 in the ECF. What are we doing here?
I agree that he’s a very good coach, but I think he’s going to coach with the playoffs in mind and not trying to maximize regular season wins like Thibs. I think he’s going to play more players, the starters will play fewer minutes, starters will get games off when they are hurt etc…
I’m knocking some regular season wins OFF from what I think Thibs would get for those reasons but we’ll go into playoffs fresher and with the bench way more prepared. I just don’t think he’s the guy to unleash the talent on this offense. So this move makes no sense to me.
KAT’s a good player. A great player.
I have said my piece about his defense and I absolutely think he could be used better on offense but I really really don’t think he will age well.
BBA you whined more about this team than anyone not named E or Pags this year, so you are the very last non-troll who should have anything to say about folks being critical.
How could anyone not be disappointed? Mike Brown is, like, fine, but why in the world would you ever fire Thibs to hire Mike fucking Brown?! If you hire some out of the box guy, then sure, we all get it, Thibs wears thin on people, so you want to mix things up, but hiring Mike Brown is like firing Budz, hiring Adrian Griffin, and then firing Griffin to hire Doc Rivers. It doesn’t make any sense!
Brown won’t suck here, so it’ll be whatever, and, hey, maybe lots of shit will go JUST right and he’ll win a title and we’ll look at him and Frank Vogel years later as, “Oh, right, those guys won titles. Huh.”
Z-Man you know I’ve always been super optimistic about this team which is why you were surprised I was so down on them heading into the playoffs. I let all the talk about them struggling against the best teams get to me plus those losses in the final week to Boston, Detroit and Cleveland broke me. But those losses thankfully proved to be totally meaningless come playoff time.
But like some others besides myself have pointed out the criticism here at times about the Knicks feels like we’re watching totally different teams.
I guess JJJ is no longer available (if he ever was).
Brian it makes total sense if the front office believes Thibs has worn out his welcome with the most of the players. Mike Brown personality wise seems like rhe complete opposite of Thibs, theres a reason a successful coach like Mike Malone wasn’t even interviewed cause he has the reputation of being a younger Thibs.
It unfortunately reminds me of the Yankees letting Girardi go and hiring Boone although at least Mike Brown has a track record of being a very good head coach in the NBA.
KAT is one of the worst defensive bigs I have ever seen. If he were Precious Achiuwa on O he’d be playing in Europe.
He’s an elite shooter/scorer and excellent defensive rebounder, a so-so passer and offensive rebounder, and has lousy athleticism for his size.
In my book, that doesn’t add up to “great player” worth a supermax contract, not in the age of the second apron.
He was essentially salary dumped by a team who hardly missed a beat without him. We should do the same thing before it’s too late.
Julius Randle and Donte Divincenzo are now a “salary dump” return?
Interesting. You better run this one by the “January Knicks” crew.
Don’t know how meaningful “he’d be in Europe if you took away all of his offensive skills” is. I mean, the real Precious Achiuwa may be learning French soon.
The Clarkson stuff sounds real. I am en route to a dinner where I’ll be meeting my girlfriend’s father for the first time and thus can’t do any kind of numerical dive—becoming a worse Knickerblogger poster in exchange for drastically more happiness and emotional fulfillment is an easy choice, albeit a sad one sometimes—but my impression is his poor shooting numbers are largely a product of his shot selection and he’d look a lot better if you look at assisted, spot up, etc. shots.
We could use a fireman type, we all know the offense can get downright ugly when Brunson and/or KAT are sitting. But I am tentatively Clarkson skeptical, subject to change when I get a chance to look at more stuff.
TNFH ask your gf’s dad what he thinks of the Knicks head coach search…
this is what i hoped e-commerce would do to black friday
Best of luck, Noble. At least you are missing absolutely nothing here!
Dang, Lakers sign LaRavia… sneaky good pick up. Fuck the Lakers.
Good luck with the family meeting!
I love what the Rockets are doing. Getting rid of Jalen Green was a huge plus. 😉 And now they are making more good moves.
whoa, a bit distracted maybe, for a second thought you were referencing the dad…
Best of luck, TNFH!
E, it was in fact a salary dumped and you and everyone else knows it. Minny got the best return they could…which is nowhere near what some of KAT’s fans would have been happy to pay for him just a couple of years ago. Not exactly sure, but it was around the same time those same folks wanted to trade the farm for Joel Embiid.
Alas, if only we had some unprotected firsts left, Leon could have thrown them in and it would have resembled the return that Utah squeezed out of Cleveland for Spida. Then the salary dump characterization would have been out.
poor dad has no idea noble’s training at the zman crusty father in law gym since he owned a trapper keeper
Nuggets look like a legit contender again
A lot of these other moves don’t matter on a larger scale
TNFH gets us!
Just tell him your best friends other than Chalamet call you The Noble Face Humper.
He will love it. Good luck!
Kornet makes sense in that the Spurs need shooting .
I much prefer being a high-quality KB poster to mere happiness and emotional fulfillment. Happiness, schmappiness.
Anyway, Cam Johnson is really good and I anticipate he’ll show it to a far wider audience this season.
Malone probably flung his Jamison glass at the wall when he heard the Nugs brought back Bruce Brown a few basketball weeks after firing him, in part for bitching a lot about them letting Bruce Brown go.
Cam Johnson might be better than Michael Porter Jr. already, plus they get rid of the salary. Great move by the Nuggets.
capela to the rockets is unexpected
Ty Jerome’s playoff performance has now cost him tens of millions of dollars. $28 million for three years. Ouch.
Jalen Williams played a bunch of playoff games with a torn ligament in his shooting wrist. Surgery today.
That’s my kind of player.
Nets got a 2032 one back in the trade, now looks better for them.
DLo went to the Mavs (two years, $13M) and Ty Jerome went to the Grizzlies (three years, $28M), so cross them off the list (and maybe aim a little lower)
Wow, Kornet got paid. I’m happy for him ( and not crying for Boston)
The gave un an unprotected #1 pick for the pleasure of the Walton family penny pinching.
The KAT and Bridges deals really hurting today…
I honestly don’t see what’s wrong with Brown as a choice for coach. I don’t hold the Kings firing him against him. He was caught in the trap of raised expectations after his first great season combined with unhelpful front office moves. He’s clearly a competent coach and maybe an excellent one. He’s can coach defense and probably learned a lot about coaching offense from Kerr. Maybe some up and coming guy like Nori would be better, but that’s a more risky hire.
Forget Brunson or Judge, Jazz Chisholm might be the new king of NY.
And it’s in 2032 when the Nuggets coukd easily be bad. I am recalibrating my trade value expwctations and concluding that in the world of the new CBA getting a player with a relatively low salary that’s licked in for more than a year deserves a first round pick in return just for the incoming salary component of the trade.
Brook Lopez signed with the Clippers (two years, $18M). I am failing to see how the Bucks can be good this year.
Who are these great players they’ve missed out on so far
Good luck TNFH
NAW is a nice player but looking at his stats I don’t really understand the hoopla over him.
Kings are signing Schroeder.
In 2032 Jokic might be a normal 1st team all-NBA player instead of the best offensive player of all-time. It’s theoretically possible. My money is on Denver being good until Jokic is 43 or decides he doesn’t need any more horses.
Jokic is a really interesting player in terms of how he will age. A guy who doesn’t need to use athleticism and might be the smartest player ever may still be very good in 2032
“Who are these great players they’ve missed out on so far”
I see teams improving. I see us doing nothing. We don’t have picks to make trades, nor cap space for free agents.
I’m not sure about doing nothing; the sorts of players we might sign are probably in the second wave after the big name destinations are resolved.
The Hawks could be good this year. They have made a lot of nice moves.
Looks like Caris LeVert swooped in and took that Malik Beasley money as fast as he could.
Interesting Noble meeting the potential in-laws the day free agency starts.
Kennard to the Hawks. One year deal for 11 mil.
Not sure why the Pistons didn’t go for Kennard. He makes more sense if your losing Beasley
kennard already played for the pistons imagine he did not love it there not sure why we did not go for kennard bargain at 11M
Do the Knicks have 11 million to spend?
Would Kennard turn down the deal the Pistons gave Levert? Maybe, but who knows
11M should be relatively easy for a guy like aller to make happen for the right guy kennard could have easily been the right guy for cheap imagine a mikal josh kennard delon huk or precious bench this is even more depressing than draft night
2026 draft is loaded so maybe they take the season off, that would make some happy
Well we only have 10 players so we will definitely do something. But it’s hard to get all that excited about this year’s Payne, or Shamet, or Delon, or whatever dregs are left. Or Mike Brown.
It is easy, it requires either:
(1) Salary dumping one of KAT, Brunson, OG, Bridges, or Hart
or
(2) Stretching Mikal and filling the rest of the roster with rookie minimum deals, maybe one vet minimum
We need to wait for all the money to dry up and see who’s left standing without a bag.
We just signed Clarkson. Vet min.
Nothing like an old, no-d chucker to fill out the roster
Clarkson hasn’t cleared waivers and signed anywhere
No d chucker could apply to Brunson
Clarkson at the vet minimum is .. . .fine I guess. If they need some shooting and playmaking off the bench on occasion they can throw him in. Assuming we hire a coach who actually plays his bench players 8-10 minutes of Clarkson in some games isn’t going to fuck up anything too badly and then he can wave a towel around in the playoffs
JBs shots go in
They still have the non-taxpayer to use, so I’m fine with it.
I mean, vets min is by definition a “whatever” slot so, whatever.
Clarkson has a career .539 TS% on a career 26% usage.
I can’t wait until Knicks start Summer League so ill have something else to watch other than the 2025 Yankees finding new creative ways to lose 1-run games. Best run differential in baseball yet only the 6th best record…
He’s more or less Alec Burks
Appreciate all the well wishes, dinner was great. Her dad moved to Chicago from India in the ’90s and so, naturally, became a Bulls fan and watched every game. However I am happy to report he developed immense respect for the Knicks during that time and said he felt like those were the Bulls’ hardest battles. I’ll have to take his word for it.
I had a feeling Jordan Clarkson would be a Knick by the time I was home.
Clarkson is a former 6th man of the year award winner!
Clarkson for the bench is pretty solid.
You don’t expect him to be the 6th player of the year for his money but if you need instant scoring i think he’s the one to get.
TNFH he seems like a smart man, I say if she’s worth it marry his daughter!
Clarkson at the vet’s minimum is fine, I don’t have an issue with that.
I don’t love Clarkson. I guess we need more ballhandlers and playmakers. I’m hoping he’s not in the rotation.
He’ll get you instant shooting, if nothing else.
Not a Clarkson fan, but him getting interviewed on the street and being asked if he attended any Jazz games this season was kind of funny.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ax3E1OAVXTc&pp=0gcJCfwAo7VqN5tD
Clarkson’s hair and druggy Marley cool style ain’t exactly my preference in bball players but the guy can play
Yeah, that’s going to be the theme around here them for a while.
Given that we may lose Shamet, Clarkson on a minimum seems fine.
Cam is a lot better than Clarkson.
Saw some buzz on twitter about Yabu not returning to the Sixers – I wonder if we have any interest.
I know pointzzz is overrated and I’d be the first person to complain about a player’s inefficiency but Clarkson averages 16ppg for his career with the majority of his games played coming off the bench, that’s not something you should easily dismiss.
It’s pretty tough to replace Cam Payne with a lower basketball IQ player, but the Knicks have done it. I’m starting to think everything Leon and WWW have done that worked out well was luck.
One thing Clarkson should be able to do is eat some innings against bad teams in the regular season, hopefully allowing us to give our key guys some rest. I used to follow up these kinds of thoughts with “but who am I kidding,” but hey, maybe the new coach will do things differently.
He’s definitely archetype a lot of us longed for this past season. Another ball hander, shot creator, etc. The problem is he’s a 33 year-old bad version of that archetype. But hey, minimum signing, all good and well. Should help our 3PAr, which is different than saying he should help our 3PT shooting generally, which he will not.
LeBron James level players don’t play on the vet min
Cheap Vets & Young Bets
That’s the bench of a Contender
And a badly needed hype video for the long summer coming:
https://youtu.be/6DZHtL96Xks?si=3RFqKZFsx9a4GmSY
Also a little alarming that the first player we sign without Thibs is a moron.
I’m beginning to see Thibs as Col Jessup. We needed him on that wall.
That moron has made over 100m in his NBA career…
you spend the thibs era whining incessantly about how bad he was don’t you have any shame
I have never liked Clarkson. Just seems like another Nick Young. I don’t know, maybe I will learn to appreciate his game.
Hubs,
Your incessant negativity is fucking annoying.
Clarkson hasn’t even officially signed with us and you’re training him and calling him an idiot. Fuck off. Clarkson is a perfectly fine player to get for the bench on a vet minimum contract. Why is he an idiot? Because he has dredlocks?
Google Jordan Clarkson Reddit and read the Clarkson appreciation post by jazz fans. They enjoyed his tenure there and said he would be missed. Give the dude a fucking chance before your trash him. Honestly what the hell is your problem?
Like get over yourself. It’s just a fucking game.
I’m sure you remember the nights you both loved or hated Cam Payne. Multiply both by 1.5 and you have Jordan Clarkson.
Someone look up Mike Brown’s record when he’s not coaching Lebron or Kobe.
Mike Brown and Jordan Clarkson?
Look on the bright side, when the team starts disappointing we are going to have some very entertaining threads this season.
This team will be judged on the playoffs not regular season seeding
This is the kind of guy we should have tried to pick up.
I guess we’re gonna have a very boring season on this blog then since the Knicks are going to win over 50 games and finish with a Top 2 seed in the East…
I’ll just say that Brunson may no longer be the worst defender on the Knicks, but at least that player was good on offense 5 years ago.
Kolek is actually the worst defender on the Knicks
Kolek may no longer be the worst defender on the Knicks
😂😂😂😂😂😂
https://x.com/i/status/1874685993166786955/video/1
Very easy to not care on a tanking team
Yeah, Gary Trent Jr seems better than Clarkson
Nah Trent Jr. is hot garbage. At least Clarkson can do a few other things besides shoot threes… that’s literally all Trent does (and not at a very high rate last year).
Yeah Clarkson is terrible defensively, but he gives you a pretty good approximation of Brunson for 2 minutes per quarter: can score from anywhere on the floor, pass decently, and has a good handle/can get the ball up the floor easily.
Trent Jr. is basically Shamet, who we already have for the minimum (hopefully).
of course i will learn to like him because he is now on my beloved knicks but at the moment i am not happy about this and there is a part of me that still hopes that he is not on our opening day roster i also do not like knowing that our hero breen does not want him here either but if he steps on the floor for us and becomes oakaak i will cheer for him as much as i cheer for everyone else
I don’t love Trent either. He’s (maybe) fine for that price, but it’d be a waste of the TP-MLE, assuming he’d even want to come here.
I think the Knicks have missed a player like Clarkson just like they could use a Quickley
Just watched Hoosiers again on a flight out to LA. Are we sure Thibs didn’t use this movie as his bible? Hackman has no life outside of basketball, refuses to use his bench unless he has no choice — and in one game insists on playing with only 4 players to make a point — and on the final play of the championship game, the only play he can think of is to put his best guy at the top of the key for some heroball.
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