[ESPN] – Mon, 14 Oct 2024 02:54:00 GMT
- DiVincenzo has words with Rick Brunson at MSG
- Donte DiVincenzo, Rick Brunson get into heated exchange during Knicks-Timberwolves – The Athletic
- Donte DiVincenzo unpacks emotions after Knicks trade: Damn I got traded
- NBA Fans React To Shocking Exchange Between Donte DiVincenzo And Knicks Coach
- In MSG return, Donte DiVincenzo trades words with Knicks’ bench, assistant Rick Brunson
[New York Post] – Sun, 13 Oct 2024 10:48:00 GMT
- Knicks rookie Tyler Kolek drawing praise for work ethic, professionalism
- Tyler Kolek Is NBA Ready
- Knicks’ star point guard sees legit upside in 2nd round rookie
- Rookie Point Guard Shines in Knicks Preseason Win
- Knicks rookie point guard Tyler Kolek’s court savvy belies his inexperience
[New York Post] – Mon, 14 Oct 2024 00:24:00 GMT
- Julius Randle reflects on Knicks tenure amid MSG return with Timberwolves: ‘Unfinished business’
- Chris Finch reveals when Wolves fans can expect to see Julius Randle suit up
- Julius Randle on advice he’d give Karl-Anthony Towns about New York: Just think of basketball and stay locked in
- Minnesota Timberwolves Get Positive Update on Julius Randle Injury
- Julius Randle Shares Honest Feelings on Return to New York After Knicks Trade
[Posting and Toasting] – Mon, 14 Oct 2024 00:48:59 GMT
- Knicks 115, Timberwolves 110: New York fends off a barrage from Ant, foils the DiVo revenge game
- SEE IT: Knicks welcome Julius Randle, Donte DiVincenzo back to MSG with tribute video
- Preseason Game Preview: New York Knicks vs Minnesota Timberwolves, October 13, 2024
- Timberwolves and Karl-Anthony Towns meet again, this time in his new place of work
- Knicks 115, Wolves 110: Edwards Scores 31 in Impressive Fashion
[New York Post] – Sun, 13 Oct 2024 09:01:00 GMT
Knicks Jalen Brunson tuning out preseason noise the good and the bad
[New York Daily News] – Mon, 14 Oct 2024 02:32:09 GMT
Donte DiVincenzo, Rick Brunson separated after post-game scuffle
[Sports Illustrated] – Sun, 13 Oct 2024 19:39:38 GMT
- New York Knicks Waive 7-foot-2 Center, Ex-Clippers Player
- Knicks sign Moses Brown to Exhibit 10 deal, waive 3 players
- New York Knicks sign Albany native Boo Buie
- Knicks sign 7-foot-2 rebounding big man Moses Brown
- Knicks Sign, Waive Moses Brown
[Yahoo Sports] – Mon, 14 Oct 2024 00:50:00 GMT
Top Plays from New York Knicks vs. Minnesota Timberwolves
[Sports Illustrated] – Sun, 13 Oct 2024 18:57:06 GMT
- New York Knicks Reveal Early Plan For Backup Center
- Who Is Ariel Hukporti? Meet Knicks Potential Isaiah Hartenstein Replacement Amid Robinson News
- The Knicks may have found a gem in 2nd-round rookie center
- Insider Believes New York Knicks Rookie Could Join Roster
[Sports Illustrated] – Sun, 13 Oct 2024 14:35:14 GMT
Spike Lee Makes Bold Claim About Current Knicks Team
[FanSided] – Mon, 14 Oct 2024 00:50:34 GMT
This 76ers-Grizzlies trade would screw over the Knicks and scare the Celtics
[MSN] – Mon, 14 Oct 2024 08:39:59 GMT
Anthony Edwards Hints at Knicks Future After Timberwolves Preseason Loss
[The New York Times] – Mon, 14 Oct 2024 09:03:40 GMT
Donte DiVincenzo’s journey from Villanova scout team decoy to one of the NBA’s most wanted players
158 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.10.14)”
Quick takes, just to start the conversation after a fun preseason game…
– This team has great potential, it’ll take time for players to learn how to play together but it’s tantalizing.
Meanwhile the offense is clunky, with stretches where players run around like they’re strangers put together for a playground game.
It’ll improve and it already showed glimpses of what it should/would become.
Keep the faith guys, it’s a long journey.
– Josh Hart took zero (0) shots in 25 minutes. Three games and 65 minutes into preseason he’s 0-4 from the floor and he’s averaging zero (0) PPG.
Worst thing, he passed many shooting chances, both open and wide open, from everywhere on the field.
I’m all for glue guys and we probably need his rebounding in the starting lineup, but to me this is no bueno.
– We’ll miss DDV’s extreme range and lighting quick release.
Timing hitting the shooters coming out of curls, screens and stacks isn’t Brunson’s best attribute and some of our guys are “slow loaders”, not fast triggers as Donte.
– As an aside, I’ll take DDV’s side in every dispute with Rick Brunson. Donte’s a trash talker, Brunson Sr. is simply a dick.
– If KAT guarantees this kind of intensity under the boards he’ll be okay with the fans.
– To my basketball sensitivity, lineups with Precious and Jericho together are like nails on a chalkboard…
– No Kolek, I feel personally offended. 🙂
I’d really to watch him play alongside combinations of OG, Mikal and KAT (if not all three).
– Pepper’s “World B. Free with hair” is the perfect definition for this new version of Deuce 😀
– Landry Shamet is a useful player when his shots fall.
– I’m ready, Cam Payne will make me mad all season long.
If there’s a Pantheon for players who make their coaches and fans scream “no no no no YES” he’s right there.
I thought the most interesting thing other than playing offense 4 on 5 was the impact KAT had on Rudy. He spent all evening 22 feet from the basket trying to deny KAT 3 ball attempts while spending little time defending the paint, where his value is.
Macri’s theory is that Hart is doing some preseason trolling with the refusal to shoot, citing a few possessions where he got offensive rebounds right by the basket and still passed back out to a teammate. Hart’s a weird guy — wildly confident about so many aspects of his life/game, yet oddly passive and hesitant on offense a lot of the time — so I wouldn’t even attempt to psychoanalyze.
Donte’s beef being with Brunson instead of Thibs makes more sense.
“Thanks for the trade” could be interpreted as him making fun of how easy it was to attack Towns at the rim instead of the typical center that normally patrols the Knicks’ paint.
It appears he never actually said “thanks for the trade.” The Twitter account who did that lip reading later apologized for getting it wrong, and even deleted the original tweet. More here:
https://x.com/WorldWideWob/status/1845703571905323027
Meanwhile, Edwards has an amusingly-timed big feature on our former ginger gunslinger:
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5833703/2024/10/14/donte-divincenzo-knicks-timberwolves-nba-villanova/?source=emp_shared_article
I am on record as not liking the KAT trade. Nothing that has happened thus far in preseason has made me feel any differently. Hope I’m wrong!
“I am on record as not liking the KAT trade. Nothing that has happened thus far in preseason has made me feel any differently. Hope I’m wrong!”
I’m pretty sure that I agree with all of this. In making that trade, we seemed to be ignoring the “immaculate vibes” and chemistry that we had, or at the very least undervaluing them.
https://x.com/TommyBeer/status/1845824837467484252?s=19
A pretty huge subtle improvement in trading for KAT.
For me, it’s less the vibes and more about KAT himself. I never liked his game, in the same way as I never liked Spida’s game. Of course, I mean relative to their stats, contract, role, and price we paid.
It almost strikes me as the same kind of short-sighted move that the Spida trade would have been. Different player, different context, and this team is better than that team would have been. But still one that puts a ceiling on the team well below “NBA Champion” except if we get very lucky.
KAT is just not a mentally tough player. The soft label is well-established and well-deserved.
We are going to have a fun season, and might go pretty far in the playoffs. I just don’t see a legit championship roster as is. Top opponents will look to exploit our weakest link, and that link is going to be KAT’s softness.
Again, I am hoping that KAT proves me wrong, but nothing will convince me of that until he does it in the playoffs. I had way more confidence in Randle turning it around and being an asset in the playoffs if he was healthy. I would have been way more confident if Leon had just kept him and DDV and figured out a decent plan B for the gaping hole at C.
What’s done is done and I am going to root for KAT and the team like I always do. But if KAT is not the guy, I hope Leon looks to move on from him sooner rather than later, or at least to find another big-time starter to take more pressure off of him.
I should also clarify that in a vacuum I don’t think we overpaid for KAT, it was a more than fair deal. It’s more the context and his contract that I don’t like.
Maybe Hart needs to go now? He seems to be more interested in being a personality than a team player these days. I wonder what kind of stretch 4 we could get for him and Mitch’s contract?
We need some damn ruff ryders!!
“We need some damn ruff ryders!!”
We just traded one, or maybe even two, of them for someone who is most definitely not one. But as Z stated, I’m going to root for KAT and the team just as much as I would have for DDV, Randle, and the team.
“Maybe Hart needs to go now? He seems to be more interested in being a personality than a team player these days. I wonder what kind of stretch 4 we could get for him and Mitch’s contract?”
I thought of that, and maybe that will be necessary at some point. I wouldn’t do that until at least January 15 when Precious becomes available to trade and we know Mitch’s status. It’s also probably the case that Hart is just feeling things out right now and will be fine once the season gets going. Hart, Brunson and Bridges are probably looking at KAT and figuring out how to make him confident and tough. I expect them to gel once the season starts.
Again, I have no issues with the regular season, or even the early rounds. My concerns are about making a deep run in the playoffs.
Winning will create new good vibes.
Look we gotta let Hart and Brunson (and I guess Mikal) work through their feelings on this. They wanted the Nova Knicks thing badly and are probably hurt about all of this. But give the team some time.
I loved Randle and DDV and I do think while we might have improved on paper, short term we might have taken a slight step back. But sometimes you gotta do that to take two steps forward.
And a lot of this was done because it appears Randle didn’t want to take another discount to extend and we lost iHart. So it was a necessity move that also gave us a better fitting (and probably more talented) player than Randle in the starting 5.
But breaking up the Nova Knicks thing, in the long run, was probably the right move. Doesn’t mean the remaining guys aren’t upset about it. KAT is also working his way into accepting this trade.
I don’t buy the KAT is soft stuff. At least not anymore. He guarded Jokic better than Gobert did in the playoffs. He’s been in the league a long time now. He’s been to the WCF. A lot of that is left over from the Butler days in Minny when he was much younger.
walker, I have great respect for your optimism and you have been right far more than wrong compared to the critics. I admit that some of my anxiety is more perception that reality. But as I said, the answer won’t reveal itself until we get to the second round of the playoffs. That’s the problem for me…just the not knowing. I knew that team with Randle and DDV would be a very tough out if we just had a reasonably good starting C, which I believe would have been gettable for spare parts. Just not sure about this one.
After last night I am mildly more in favour of the trade than before. First, Julius sitting out pre-season but likely suiting up for game 1 of the regular season hints that the shoulder is a concern. From what I understand it is not like other injuries where it can get sore or swell–it is either going to be fine or pop out again, so why wait especially since he needs to gel with the team. Second, the DDV incident and Hart taking zero shots tells me the Nova clique may not have been all a good thing for next season. Nice to get that cleaned up now.
Totally fair. But even with the old team, those questions would still remain, no?
There is more “unknown” here but it feels like the platonic ideal of this team has a higher ceiling than the old team.
Vibes and grit will only get you so far in the playoffs. The 90’s Knicks had great vibes and worked their asses off and always ended up losing to the more talented team.
Yeah, I feel this way about the NOVA thing (even though I was totally into it). And this is part of the taking a step back on the “vibes” thing in order to eventually take 2 steps forward with the more talented and better fitting team.
I thought ptmilo nailed it yesterday with this description, which captured my sense of the discombobulated play of the team, outside of KAT and Jalen. What’s interesting and impressive is that we’ve won three in a row (admittedly only yesterday was against a real NBA team), despite the fact that the offense feels terribly random. It suggests we have some actual skilled players that are winning out despite themselves.
“it’s very hard to tell how hart fits in the starting lineup bc they have no idea what they’re doing yet. nobody knows where to go when the initial action is stymied (unless they are just stapled to the corner). og and mikal are getting some random isos and side pnrs in these cases but mostly they are all running around like npcs around jalen and kat. that kind of situations isn’t going to work for a guy like hart. it’ll be a minute before we can tell how he actually works with the starters.”
And I really don’t get the take that Hart being weird Hart, as he always is and always will be, and Divo being a fired-up, passionate sharpshooter but on the other team instead of on ours suggests that the Nova thing was a bad idea.
This team is going to be able to win games early on even with a discombobulated offense because of how good the defense will be plus Brunson and KAT will still score 55-60 ppg between them.
So…why do we think Hart isn’t shooting in the preseason. Is he intentionally being a connector/glue guy? If that’s the case, he still needs to shoot some so that he doesn’t lose touch and confidence. I love that he’s playing aggressive defense, rebounding, and moving the ball. But my God! Shoot it my guy!
Or..has Thibs given him the Mitch role on offense? I seriously hope it’s Hart consciously being the connector guy and he’s just seeing how it works during the preseason.
KAT has some real playoff stats. So does Randle. Im less anxious about KAT showing up for a big series than I would have been hoping Randle can rewrite the narrative. Soft or hard.
“I don’t buy the KAT is soft stuff. At least not anymore. He guarded Jokic better than Gobert did in the playoffs. He’s been in the league a long time now. He’s been to the WCF. A lot of that is left over from the Butler days in Minny when he was much younger.”
Just to offer an alternative viewpoint:
In the first round, Durant averaged 27 points on a .653 TS%. Let’s not act like KAT shut him down. KAT also only played 28mpg to old man Durant’s 42mpg, partially because of foul trouble. He really only had one standout game…game 4 of a sweep.
In the second round, Jokic averaged 29-11-8 on a .596 TS%. But Towns had an outstanding game 7, but he only had 2 points in the 4th quarter on an offensive rebound when the game was out of hand. It was Edwards, Naz and Gobert that won that game down the stretch. In fact, KAT was subbed out for Naz at the 6:21 mark and didn’t return until the 2:05 mark when Gobert fouled out, and the Wolves increased their lead to 10 over that stretch. Seems like Finch didn’t trust KAT to be on the floor in crunch time, doesn’t that kind of say it all? So let’s stop with the “KAT guarded Jokic better than Gobert” stuff unless you think Finch is a bad coach.
And let’s not even discuss the WCF’s. KAT absolutely sucked against teh Mavs’ very mediocre front line.
So I’m sticking with the soft label until I see otherwise.
Does DDV really think Rick Brunson is why he got traded?
It was reported Leon didn’t want to include him in the trade but Minny wouldn’t do the trade without him.
And from what I can tell the trade went down (on our end) for 2 very specific reasons.
1. We lost iHart and needed a starting center, especially with Mitch still being out.
2. Randle’s extension was looming and it was looking like he wasn’t going to take a discount or shorter extension to stay here and Leon wasn’t comfortable giving him a max extension heading into his 30’s with a surgically repaired shoulder (especially for a player who plays a bully-ball style and is not a great perimeter shooter).
swifty, The KAT trade was very logical in that context. We all know that.
The question is: was there an alternative that made more sense? On paper, absolutely not. KAT is a legit all-star on paper and fills an immediate need. Randle’s contract situation was a ticking time bomb. DDV is great but perhaps redundant with Mikal and Deuce, and now Shamet. Guys like KAT don’t become available every day.
But the mental toughness and chemistry issues are real, and the “80% of KAT for 20% of his salary” thing is also real.
I just find these “soft” or “ruff rydah” labels to be kind of dumb.
Someone brought this up the other week but did Jaylen Brown and Tatum all of the sudden became ruff rydahs in the playoffs this last season to win their title or were the celtics just more talented than everyone?
I think Brown and Tatum have been very underrated here over the years. I don’t think they can be compared to KAT at all. As an example, none of their coaches benched them in the 4th quarter of a game 7. And the Celts might have won 2 straight championships if it weren’t for Tatum spraining his ankle in the first couple of minutes vs. the Heat.
It was way more about the C’s supporting cast than Tatum and Brown, as we saw this year. Smart was a fake ruff rydah and Brogdan and RWIII were always hurt.
Be that as it may, I would call KAT and the KP-Horford combo a wash.
Brown is better than Mikal
Tatum is better than OG
White is better than Hart
The benches are probably a wash.
So it comes down to: How much better is Brunson than Jrue? I don’t think it makes up for the other three positions. The only way to make up for it would be for KAT to dominate the C matchup. That’s where I have issues with the trade. Unless Horford drops off, I’d rather have him by himself than KAT.
As long as Gobert is standing 20ft from the basket when Brunson is finishing a layup, I don’t really give a crap if KAT is soft.
Same goes for Hart. As long as he hits his 3s when teams sag off him, I don’t really care if he scores 0 points the rest of the year. He did it last year in the playoffs, I’m confident he can do it again.
KAT is an offense-oriented player. If he was an ace defensive player he’d be one of the very best players in the NBA and unobtainable.
Brown and Tatum are better offensive players than our guys, but they’re a weak 1-2 punch for a championship caliber team. If OG and Mikal smother them, or even slow them down and allow KAT to stick to KP, does their offense still function?
On the other side of the ball, how are they stopping the KAT/Brunson PnR?
I don’t really buy the idea that “starting caliber center gettable for spare parts” was available. The asking price for Walker freaking Kessler was more than we could afford.
Randle was a nice player for us but the guy is streaky as hell, plays in a style that causes a lot of wear and tear, and has never done much in the playoffs. Randle is a high variance, risky player and he’s heading into his decline phase. I think it was the right time to move on.
I’ve said this before but the main reason I like the KAT trade is that he is likely to maintain his trade value going forward, whereas Randle on the $40M AAV contract it would have taken to keep him might have become an albatross.
My concerns are strictly about the ECF and beyond. And even those concerns are more about lack of confidence that it will work than being confident that it won’t work. I’m just in show me mode. This isn’t Pagliacci talking.
The main point is that it is going to take all season to get to the real proving ground. It’s not like the Celts or Thunder where you just know that it’s for real.
“I don’t really buy the idea that “starting caliber center gettable for spare parts” was available. The asking price for Walker freaking Kessler was more than we could afford.”
That’s a guy on a rookie deal playing for Danny Ainge. There are players in the $10-20M range that will certainly be available for the right deal, i.e. one that would not have needed to involve Randle or DDV. The Mavs picked up Daniel Gafford for Holmes and a 26th pick in a lousy draft. Clint Capela is on the block. There will be others before the deadline. And Mitch isn’t dead yet.
The thing is, if Mitch can get healthy we actually may have everything (and more) that we need to make a serious run at a title. Especially if Huk and Kolek turn out to be rotation pieces.
We’re going to be really good. We would have been good without KAT too but we’ve put together what will potentially be one of the most devastating offensive duo’s in the league with Brunson and KAT.
There were a few plays last night where Brunson drove and got all the way to the rim and Gobert was nowhere to be found cause he was stuck on KAT at the 3pt line. Once Brunson gets used to not having to pull up for as many floaters and mid range shots because the basket will be uncovered he’s gonna have a field day and draw even more fouls which we’re already seeing during preseason.
I think there is a large gap between KAT and Randle. KAT is a very good modern day center and will help this team greatly. His rebounding will pickup too. Look at the first handful of years in the league, he averaged double digit rebounds.
I don’t think KAT has been soft for many years. That was an early thing. If anything, he needs to be smarter and not commit silly fouls. I think so far in preseason (I realize it is preseason) he has played very hard, physical, rebounded and played good defense. I think we will see him up his game.
Also, having KAT increases our chances of beating the top teams. A lot more than Randle. Sometimes you didn’t know what mood Randle would be in. If he wasn’t in a good mood, he basically lost the game for us. Yelling at teammates, other players, refs, etc.
Losing Donte stings, b/c of his long distance shooting, but I feel you can’t get very good players for nothing. It was a trade that needed to be done. Yes, it is taking a chance, but I think it is worth the risk.
The Celtics have the better all-around players but, that’s not necessarily the best way to make a team.
We have the top-2 offensive players in KAT & Brunson.
We arguably have the top-2 defensive players in OG & Mikal.
I don’t know what kind of defensive usage metrics exist, but presumably OG and Mikal will be involved in a lot more defensive plays than Brunson.
In the playoffs it becomes a question of scheme, can we keep Brunson away from the PoA or can teams force him to switch onto their best offensive players? Can Hart sink enough 3s to force the defense to stay 5-out?
“I don’t think KAT has been soft for many years”
Then why did Finch bench him in the 4th quarter of Game 7 vs the Nuggets and not reinsert him until Gobert fouled out?
It’s because he felt that Naz Reid gave him a better chance to win.
That’s the main reason that Minny made that trade. It’s not just the money. They could have traded Gobert if it was just about the money, or let Naz walk. It was about KAT, period.
When Mitch started, Thibs often sat him in the 4th during close games. Not because he was soft but because of his free throw shooting.
Coaches sit certain players in games or series based on a variety of reasons. Match ups, the flow of the game, how that player is doing, etc. Doing it because they’re “soft” is pretty vague.
Utah used to sit Gobert all the time in playoff games. To the point where people would say he was “unplayable.”
Ideally, KAT would be as good on defense as he is on offense to where there would never be a question of sitting him but the number of players in the league who are that good is extremely small.
The thing about the C’s is that all 6 of their top 6 are solid to excellent on both sides of the ball. All of them can situationally create in iso. All of them can catch and shoot and can’t be left open from 3. All of their non-centers can switch on to Brunson and make life hard for him. And either of their centers match up well with KAT on both ends. There is going to be enormous pressure on Mikal, OG, and especially Hart to make Boston pay for helping on Brunson, which may not even be necessary since Jrue is one of the best point of attack defenders in NBA history. Brown, Tatum, and White can easily handle Mikal, OG and Hart one-on-one.
Obviously game 1 is just game 1 but it should give us a pretty good idea about how the Celts plan to defend us. KP is out so KAT has an opportunity to make some noise. We’ll see.
BTW if there’s any difference between Tatum and Brunson on offense, it’s pretty marginal. Tatum has had the higher TS% on similar usage in each of the past 2 years. I think Tatum’s size and range give him the edge, but Brunson has the better OBPM, so it’s kind of a wash to me.
swift, KAT is on a $50-60M max contract. There is no way to justify sitting a guy making that kind of money in crunch time of the biggest game of your coaching career…unless that player is massively overpaid. KAT played for that team for 9 years after being drafted #1 overall. Comparing him to Mitch is ridiculous.
He was salary dumped to make way for Naz Reid and to keep Gobert, who actually played his ass off in that 4th quarter and is much more of the reason the Wolves made it to the conference finals than KAT. Both Gobert and Naz outplayed KAT in the conference finals.
In the GM survey the Celtics got 83% of the vote to win the 2025 NBA title. Everybody else including the Knicks are coming in as massive underdogs to a healthy Boston team.
Maybe he had diarrhea.
I can not even remember the last big we had who could shoot…
KAT is a keeper…
seems pretty obvious just after 3 pre-season games we are much better with him on the team…
we have a lot of terrific complementary pieces to our little general…
championship or bust 🙃
In that game 7 KAT led his team in points and rebounds and played 40 minutes. He got pulled after he picked up his 5th foul.
Dude, come on. They gave up a billion draft picks to get Gobert. There was no way they could get back even half of that value if they tried to trade Gobert instead of KAT.
Gobert is also older. Knicks desperately needed a starting Center but do you think Leon would have given them Randle and DDV for Gobert. No fucking way.
They traded KAT because they had to not because they wanted to.
Oh shit. DRed just laid down the receipts, Z-man.
I think early labels tend to stick with players. KAT hasn’t been soft for years. I think he will be even extra motivated playing again with Thibs, and near home.
KAT, Game 7:
39 minutes, 23 points, 12 boards, +10, team held defending champions to 90 points at home.
Not really sure what the problem is there.
Just want to make sure we are talking about the same Jaylen Brown that is crowned as one of the big 2 in Boston and who sports a career playoff BPM of a whopping 1.3. Most over rated player in the NBA per dollar.
“Oh shit. DRed just laid down the receipts, Z-man.”
Yeah, KAT’s 2 points in the 4th quarter were key. Naz and Rudy were just riding his coattails.
Mikal and Jaylen Brown seem like quite comparable players. You get a little bit more usage our of Brown, a little bit better efficiency from Mikal. Defensively I think I’d prefer Mikal but they’re not light years apart. Same height, similar wingspan. Very similar players I’d say in terms of value.
Saying we should have traded for some other center is a strange position. There was plenty of chatter about various options, and the asking prices were universally too high. Possibly they’d come down closer to the deadline, but by then we’d have Mitch back, and the clear goal was to get a real center for the first three months of the season at least.
Is KAT going to work out? I don’t know. Even if not, though, there were few other options. We weren’t getting Anthony Davis for Julius and a pick. And we probably didn’t want Capela, because we’re building a team with a chance for sustained success. And if JV weren’t washed, then the Pelicans, who have NO centers, probably wouldn’t have let him go. I think we could maybe have pried away one of Orlando’s in a couple months for DDV, because they have a bunch of centers and not enough shooting, but again, that’s a couple months without a real center. So all in all, you have to see this as a smart move (especially considering Julius’ contact situation) even if you don’t like it and there’s a chance it doesn’t work out.
I think Z-Man is thinking about the Mavs game that Finch really did bench Towns for in favor of Reid, who was playing exceptionally well.
I mean…I understand this is a subjective opinion, but it is extraordinarily difficult to justify.
I had some faith in Randle being a playoff asset for us too, but since he is literally one of the worst NBA playoff performers of all time at the moment it was certainly an open question.
KAT’s playoff record is mixed, but more positive than negative. He’s been pretty good, all things considered.
What possible basis is there for having more faith in the former?
Sitting longer while the association’s Sixth Man of the Year plays exceptionally well doesn’t really even merit the term “benched.”
Yeah. The same people arguing KAT is soft or whatever that means were saying the same crap about Tatum and Brown 2 years. Players are soft. Until they aren’t.
I will keep saying it about Tatum and Brown because it’s funny
Both of these. Coaches will sit a player and not put them back in in playoff games for a variety of reasons.
Maybe KAT was sat because of foul trouble and the coach had every intention to put him back in but then Naz and that unti were playing well and the coach didn’t want to mess with the chemistry? I don’t know. I didn’t watch the game.
Also, it’s a weird position to take when the team ended up losing the game, no? So, like, maybe benching KAT was a mistake?
“Very similar players I’d say in terms of value.”
Yes, except monetarily, as one makes 57 million a year, and the other makes 21 million.
(Typing that made my wallet cry.)
I’m not against the trade but I’m definitely skeptical. I get strong Lillard-to-the-Bucks vibes. And there’s a lot of what Strat would call “spreadsheet roster building” in the move.
I don’t have a lot of conviction in my skepticism, though, bc I see that gaudy 7.8 bpm number on KAT’s bref page.
And I want to believe this but it seems really easy to attack Brunson and Towns in pick & rolls constantly.
Like why would the Celtics attack Bridges and OG in ISO when they could just run 100 White-Porzingis PnRs?
To Hubert’s point it did seem like yesterday when Edwards heated up it was Brunson who was flailing about nearby each time. Which had me worried. It was just for a stretch, no idea if Thibs ‘fixed’ it or what.
I liked this from The Ringer. It’s kind of amazing, and perhaps why many of us are still trying to get our bearings with this team.
“Let’s rewind all the way back to … two seasons ago, when the Knicks returned to the playoffs thanks to a breakout season from free agent signee Jalen Brunson. The top six Knicks in total points that season were, in order: Julius Randle, Brunson, RJ Barrett, Immanuel Quickley, Quentin Grimes, and Obi Toppin. What else do they have in common? Other than Brunson, they’re all gone from Madison Square Garden now.”
“I don’t have a lot of conviction in my skepticism, though, bc I see that gaudy 7.8 bpm number on KAT’s bref page.”
But that was five seasons ago, and he only played in 35 games that season. Since that time, he has reached a *total* of 15.0 BPM over those four seasons, an average of 3.75 BPM per year. We’re not getting the pre-COVID KAT of 2017-2020, although I’m hopeful that Thibs can “unlock” something close to that version of him.
Yeah but the last two years were KAT at the 4. With KAT at the 5, I think 5.0+ bpm seasons are reasonable to expect.
If we get the 2.5-3.0 bpm seasons he turned in the last two years, then this trade’s an unmitigated disaster.
Please Lord let the Celtics run White / Porzingis pick and rolls all game.
KAT cut his usage to accommodate the emergence of Ant and moved to the 4 to accommodate the trade for Gobert. And what happened? The team made the WCF. He did that without a complaint. See: Anthony “I don’t want to play the 5” Davis. The KAT hate here is absurd. By all accounts he’s a great player and a great teammate willing to whatever it takes to win.
Yeah, I don’t think you’ll say that after watching it tear Brunson and Towns apart.
Tatum and Brown are still soft.
I don’t think KAT is, though.
Since when did White turn into Steve Nash?
Shaping up to be a January Lost Causer (*) regular season on Knickerblogger.
But healthy, this is a far better playoff team. More modern, more talented. Better. (Thus Vegas.) You’d have to be blind not to see the open lane, even in these meaningless exhibition games.(**)
(*) Five minutes before Jacquez took the charge is to JLC’s what Gettysburg second day is to Confederate Lost Causers. Is what it is.
(**) If one really want to know why Josh Hart doesn’t appear to be doing much, it’s because he doesn’t give a shit — because these are meaningless games.
A lot of guys can turn into Steve Nash with Brunson guarding them.
Lay off White as the primary ball handler in the pnr and make him shoot long distance iff the dribble. His career assisted % from 3 is 84%. Use Holiday’s man who will now be Hart as help. Solved.
Uh, ok.
Look does anyone really think smart teams with multiple ballhandlers are gonna be like “the knicks have great wing defenders let’s avoid their soft underbelly and run head first into this brick wall”?
You don’t want Brunson guarding White in PnR all day, but it’s better than letting Brown and Tatum pick you apart. Plus White might do that against Brunson regardless of who else is out there.
It won’t be such a naked strategy on either side. You need to add in a lot more Xs and Os to stop Boston, but putting the Brown and Tatum in a bind is a good start.
Vientos!!!!!
While I recognize my own bias against Shamet whose shooting is not nearly elite and doesn’t make up for his inability to defend, pass or rebound, – do we really want to invest our last minimum vet salary on him?
Why not wait to see who else gets released or bought out come spring?
We need 14 players on the roster per the NBA rules, so we can’t wait till spring. He’s also a career 38.4% shooter, which is pretty damn good. If he were elite, he probably wouldn’t be available at the league minimum.
Thanks EB.
I just figured that we can have place holders until then. Quick glance at lottery teams with veterans on expiring contracts that they will likely sit and not play come tankathon season.
a) Brooklyn has Bogdanovic and Shroeder.
b) Washington has Brogdon.
c) Detroit has Thjr.
d) Toronto has Bruce Brown.
These are the type of players who would try to force their way out if they knew they would land significant minutes for a title contender and further their own careers.
https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1845932149025001882
Exactly, Hubert. With OG and Mikal on Tatum and Brown you make White the primary pnr ballhandler again Brunson who drops around a screen or plays loose and dares White to shoot off the dribble.
Guess Fox is not a Brunson. It’s really amazing. It’s what gives me the most hope about this team is that we have him as a leader.
At some point during the season the pro-rated minimum deal will be small enough to sign one of the above players to a rest of season deal. So it’s not impossible we bring on a 15th guy for the playoffs, possibly an upgrade over Shamet. Assuming, of course, we don’t make a move beforehand.
They’ll still pick you apart, though. Just bc you start with a 1-5 pnr doesn’t mean you end with one of them taking the shot. It’s about getting the defense moving before you get the ball into the hands of your best players.
I don’t know, I guess we’ll see in 7 months. I just don’t see a defense with Brunson and Towns at the 1-5 being too hard to exploit.
Mets can’t field ground balls all of a sudden. Should have had five outs already this inning
I still like the KAT trade.
KAT is both a better player than Randle and a better fit for spacing. That’s something I’ve been talking about since the Payton days. We improved the spacing with the addition of Brunson, again with OG for RJ and now it’s about as good as it’s going to get in the NBA. That value will accrue to the stat lines of Brunson, Bridges, OG and Hart, but it wil be KAT dragging Cs outside opening the paint and maybe even helping us get OREBs because the C won’t be inside as often.
It would have been nice to keep DDV because we could have used his 6th man scoring punch off the bench. I’m not sure we have that right now. But adding Bridges more than made up for the loss of DDV. We’ll see how the bench looks once the season starts. I suspect Thibs is going to use one of the starters (probably Bridges) with the bench unit. If Payne and/or Shamat can be fairly consistent we should be OK, but if not I’d add Kolek to the mix because he will help that unit score both with his own scoring and ability to pass. We should be fine, but if not we can add someone that can score off the bench
I’m more interested in backup C. Sims doesn’t look like an NBA player to me and Precious may be OK against some matchups at C, but not all.
We have one C that’s out and one that has a tendency to miss games also. I think we need to add a better than average 3rd string C for the times KAT and Mitch are both out or the “Incredible Huk” has to win that job.
Remember, because we’re over the first apron, we can’t sign a buyout guy who is making the non-taxpayer midlevel salary or above. I don’t know any of the above guys’ salaries other than Bogey, but he’d be off-limits to us.
Damn CBA!!! Yeah, that’s all of them.
Last year the Celtics were arguably one of the best teams in NBA history. I don’t think our standard for happiness should be building a team that’s one of the best of all time.
What we have to hope for is that we get a little upside surprise somewhere (Kolek or Huk are much better than we expect; OG or Bridges take another step forward) and/or that guys like Horford and Holiday slow down a notch at their age. All we want to do is close the gap with the Celtics to where we go into a series with them with a legitimate chance. Then all it takes a couple of hot games by us or bad games by them, an injury etc and we can beat them.
If KAT is dragging the centers out from the paint, I want to see Josh Hart averaging double-digit rebounds every night. if he’s running around not taking shots, he should at least do that.
The Mets managed to split at LA on the road. Big time win here.
LGM
Rondon getting the Game 1 start puts Boone up for plenty of blame or praise after his crappy start against The Royals. I thought Gil may get a shot.. We shall see how it goes.
KAT’s BPM “decline” looks almost entirely attributable to him switching positions. Not gonna do a deep dive with the Yankee game on, but it’s all declines in statistics you’d expect to decline as a guy moves from the 5 to the 4. KAT’s TRB% was 16.9% with Gobert off the floor, and his BLK% was 3.7. Both were a lot lower with Gobert on (12.9% and 1.7% respectively).
Happy for the Mets fans among us (I know it’s not reciprocal, that’s fine). Go Yanks.
It took just 1 inning in the ALCS for me to hate this Yankees team again lol
The key with Rodon is to be early, not late, on the hook. I can tell when the guy is on the verge of imploding from my couch.
I dunno what’s more frustrating to watch, Daniel Jones playing QB or the Yankees offense in the postseason the past 15 years.
I really like this Yankees team! Granted this is just my 5th game of the season. But I like how the bottom of the order gets hits. It reminds me of the old days.
The Judge stuff is getting uncomfortable, though. Changing the lineup is always dangerous but I feel like it would probably help him a whole lot if Boone moved him up to leadoff.
Or maybe he could just hit a HR in his next AB instead.
Heh. I expected it to be 4-0 Guardians, and it’s 0-0 in the third. Definitely a different fan base…
The bottom of the Yankees order is pure garbage. Verdugo and Volpe were 2 of the worst hitters in baseball during the regular season and they haven’t gotten a HR from a 1B since I believe August.
Raven I feel like I have to lean into my Yankees pessimism to counter act my Knicks optimism. Although alot of it is said in jest…
Again, I didn’t like KAT’s game and vibe back before the Gobert trade when some folks here were clamoring for him, and I still don’t like his game and vibe. I’m not going to change my opinion on him just because he’s on the Knicks or just because he’s switching back to the 5. Again, Minny did not have to trade him. They could have let Naz walk or traded him, or could have traded Gobert. He’s locked up on a max deal, 6th highest salary in the NBA this year. He’s making more money than Butler, Dame, Giannis, LeBron, and Doncic. Not that there aren’t other players in the “paid like a max player but nowhere near that good” on other teams…Beal, Trae, Zach…but I think Towns is significantly overpaid, and OG is also significantly overpaid. That’s $100M in cap tied up in those 2 players in 2026-27. This year they are making 56% of the cap.
I get that there were no obvious alternatives in the short run. My feeling is that we should have waited.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not despondent. Just skeptical, and need to see it before I believe it. If other folks here are more unbridled in their optimism, I’m not trying to be a wet blanket. Just stating my opinion. I’ll be rooting as hard for him as anyone else!
Pay Soto a billion dollars if that’s what it takes!
Al, it’s a lot better than the Matt Carpenter, Josh Donaldson, Oswaldo Cabrera, Jose Trevino days. These guys have actually been getting hits.
I wish Cashman had gotten a real 1B but Rizzo has some weird October mojo.
Cabrera started twice during the ALDS!
Yeah but it was by accident.
And Volpe has had quality ABs like that one. He’s no automatic out.
We used to be hopeless for 2 out of every 3 innings.
I also like Jazz Chisholm picking up the Robinson Cano “it’s not balaclava weather” mantle.
I’m with BBA, the bottom of the lineup is objectively as weak as basically any Yankees team in recent memory. They’ve been okay in these playoffs though so I can understand thinking otherwise if this is your 5th game of the year.
Wells is like an automatic out…he’s hitting 5th…what a joke…
Verdugo and Volpe each had well over 600 plate appearances and had OPS+ of 83 and 86. They were both 2 of I think the 5 worst every day players in baseball offensively. The Yankees 1B also combined for I believe 28th out of 30 teams in OPS.
Trading for Jazz did solve a major hole at 3B as did making Wells the everyday Catcher although you couldn’t tell from the postseason so far. Yankees do now have 6 above league average hitters in the lineup which is more than enough to win it all but trust me watching the majority of the season the bottom 4 spots in the lineup will make you skeptical.
Teach Dominguez to play 1st
Bo Naylor lol.
The Guardians are playing like somebody just taught them the rules of baseball a few hours ago
I thought they were garbage going into the playoffs but it turned out they’re good enough to be random. That’s all you can ask for.
This bunch (6 thru 9) is 13-59, with 11 walks, 6 runs, 1 HR, 3 RBI.
That’s productive!
It used to be hopeless. I remember going for 2 inning walks in the 2019 ALCS to avoid having to watch Edwin Encarnacion, Gary Sanchez, Gio Urshela, et al.
Jasson will be the everyday CF or LF next year.
Yeah, getting back-to-back AL Central teams has been great.
Zach Edey has me more and more intrigued
I know Judge is getting heat for his playoff performance and I haven’t watched very much baseball, but every time I do, Judge seems to be getting walks in key situations. That’s not so bad.
okay, take rodon out now!!!
Geo I was thinking the same thing, a lot to be said for not pushing your luck…but saving the bullpen a bit would be huge. I’d go batter by batter.
howdy KfniNJ…
this has been an ongoing issue spanning several seasons…
honestly, I think he’ll figure it out at some point and end his career with decent post season numbers…
a walk is about his best current outcome at the plate…
I never understood why Edey wasn’t a hot prospect for the NBA when he was in college. For those of you not looking at the box score, he had 23 points on 15 shots and 9 rebounds in 19 minutes of play tonight and was +9 overall.
Paul George might have fucked up his knee
Rodon maybe a bit more lucky than good there, but I’ll take it.
Sixers say it’s a hyperextended left knee for George. A Clippers fan friend of mine said the same injury kept him out for about three weeks last season. If that’s all it is, could have been a lot worse, based on that video.
Clay Holmes has become the new Ramiro Mendoza in the playoffs.
Another observation from the guy who just started watching baseball in October: the Yankees pitching staff is awesome.
Clay was overtasked as our highest leverage guy, but he’s got good stuff and control and I am enjoying his redemption arc.
I have to follow Stanton again on IG he deserves it.
I’m done calling for phasing out Stanton. Be a perma DH, don’t run, have mediocre regular seasons, miss 6-8 weeks periodically, whatever. It’s all forgiven if you hit October dongs.
These other AL teams besides the Yankees all seem kind of fugazy
Completely gobsmacked that it wasn’t Kahnle in the 8th, what the hell are we doing with Tim Hill?
I guess I’m the only one watching this boring-ass Jets game.
Boone was due to do something stupid eventually.
He tried to slip that bum Hill in there…weaver had to bail out bumbling boonie
Weaver is the most insane example of Matt Blake voodoo yet. Still have no idea what the hell the Tim Hill business was. Seemed like an easy Clay-Kahnle-Weaver call.
Can we trade Diaz for Weaver?
If Travis takes her to too many Yankee games she’s gonna leave him for Luke Weaver
Jeez, is Zuerlein aiming for the uprights?
Weaver looks like he’s 14 years old, but he’s actually 31. And somehow had barely held on to major league jobs. Now he’s a ferocious lights-out closer. Baseball is weird.
Nice to see Rondon shut me up
The Jets are by far the most frustrating team I’ve rooted for over my post 1969 life, and that includes the Mets and Knicks so it’s saying something.
If ever there was an owner who should be forced to sell…it’s woody Johnson
Can I take credit for boarding the Zach Edey train before anyone else here? I remember being told back in 2022 that he should go undrafted by some prominent draftniks, including one who no longer posts here.
I cant wait to see him matched up with Wemby.
If you want, sure, but plenty of people here thought he could be good, including me. His last year in college he definitely looked quicker and stronger, and at his height, with his touch, that’s enough to be at least decent.
Edit: it would be hilarious, though, if in 5 years he were the dominant center in the league and not Wemby or Chet.
“His last year in college he definitely looked quicker and stronger, and at his height, with his touch, that’s enough to be at least decent.”
This was not the opinion during the middle of his junior year. By his senior year, folks started to come around.
That’s fair. I read the piece about him (in the Athletic, I think?) in his junior year and got curious. He looked a little slow, tbh. But skilled. So when he seemed quicker the next year, it was easy to see he’d at least be a workable backup.
I was always arguing that Edey was good. He reminded me of Yao Ming actually.
He wound up staying in college, but it was pretty clear to me then that he was being underrated. I know I was on to him in 2022 but can’t find the posts…
It’s still early – Big Country looked like he might be good, but he wasn’t. Yao was good, but hurt all the time. Super big dudes seem difficult to predict. I mean, even Mozgov seemed perfectly cromulent for a season or two….
I’m rooting for him, though. I like seeing some of those giants succeed.
Before his senior year, Edey was viewed as too slow and lumbering to not be targeted in the same way that, say, Boban has been. He was viewed as an anachronism in the modern game. Not quick or mobile enough to be a modern pogo-stick style rim protector, not a good enough shooter to be a Yao-type versatile offensive player.
But he’s so big that comparing him to relative dwarfs like Mozgov and Big Country is not really valid. It’s all about how his athleticism package translates to the modern NBA. My feeling has always been that he’s quick and agile enough, and that he’s a tireless worker. He’s wayyy bigger than guys like JV and Steve Adams, just as mobile, and more skilled, including from the FT line.
I would have loved to have figured out a way to draft him this year, but seems like the rest of the NBA caught on.
I remember reading that and I never bought into it. You don’t have to be a pogo stick to defend the rim when you are his size and he was clearly quick enough to get in front of people and to block shots. His quickness or lack of quickness wasn’t very apparent either because in college he could be outstandingly effective just staying the rim. Of course he didn’t do much outside shooting because he didn’t need to, but he always shot fouls reasonably well.