Knicks Morning News (2024.07.02)

If he trusted his tendon, he would have probably made considerably more money doing the one year wink wink deal with us.

He couldn’t have done it, Early Bird right players should be signed to contracts with at least 2 years guaranteed.

He just got too good and the friggin new CBA rules screwed us. Why is there a limit on a Bird contract? Bird rights were meant to allow teams to retain players they developed. Call it the Bird Crap rule.

I totally agree it’s a stupid rule with unexpected consequences, but it isn’t “the new CBA” fault.

The Early Bird Right cap has been here for some time now, it’s not a “new” rule (like, for instance, the new aprons penalties).

Macri today makes the argument that the presence of Mikal and, especially, OG, means we may finally be moving away from the era of the Knicks playing a traditional rim-protecting center for 48 minutes of every game, with Randle functioning as the center on offense when Mitch sits, and OG functioning as the center on defense:

as the roster currently stands, there really aren’t enough minutes for nine guys. We know Jalen and Julius are getting their 35 a night. With the payday he just got, you can book OG for the same amount. Bridges, meanwhile, has averaged 35 minutes a game for the last three years. The Knicks didn’t give up five first rounders so he can take a haircut.

Putting aside the center position for a moment, that’s 140 of a possible 192 minutes at spots 1-4, which leaves only 52 minutes for Josh Hart (who I’m fairly certain averaged 52 minutes by himself in the playoffs), Donte DiVincenzo (38.2 mpg following the OG and Julius injuries) and Deuce McBride (31.0 mpg post-All Star break). There’s a valid argument that all three of those reserves can and should play around 30 minutes a night.

They’re not getting anywhere close to that number, but one way to ease this apparent logjam (that doesn’t involve guys sitting out games in street clothes) is by leaning into more minutes with Randle and Anunoby at the four and the five. Aside from buying some extra minutes, this is an easy way to juice the offense during the time that Brunson sits. For instance, a lineup of Randle, OG, Bridges, DiVincenzo and McBride would surround Julius with four legit deep threats.

Is this an option for five minutes a half? It might be.

We still would have issues when Mitch simply isn’t available. But if Thibs is open to the idea — and he was the most flexible he’s ever been this past season, only in part due to our injury problems — I think it would work very well. Randle was fantastic at the 5 in NOLA.

It’s too late to help us, but I wonder if there’s some way to tweak the Early Bird rule to avoid problems like this for other teams in situations like this. The rule was introduced to prevent teams from signing top free agents to cheap 1-year deals, then blowing past the cap limit with their new deals. But it most often comes into play these days in situations like this one, where an unheralded free agent outplays the modest contract he earned two years earlier, and the team that signed him to that deal is punished for developing him so well.

I see your point Alan, but from a big picture CBA perspective iHart going from a capped out big market team (Clippers) to a non capped out big market team (us), and then from a capped out big market team (us) to a non capped out small market team (OKC) is not the worst outcome in the world. Especially since the man got paid more than he otherwise would have if there was some ability to prevent both moves without a 3 year commitment.

You can bet that if they’d amend it the new one will be called “Hartenstein Rule”… 🙁

How about Josh Nebo of Maccabi? He’s a bit undersized but rebounds like a madman and can pass, hit floaters, etc.

Just for info, he’s not at Maccabi anymore, he signed a 2-years contract with Olimpia Milano last week (so I’m gonna watch him play a lot 😉 ).

As a trivia, he and De’Aron Fox were teammates in high school.

Can we try to get someone we’ve heard of? Dwight Powell, Mark Williams, Jaxson Hayes, Trayce Jackson-Davis, Day’Ron Sharpe, Clint Capela, Jalen Duren, and Kelly Olynyk could all be targets. (Not sure of the contract status of any of these guys, though.)

I think back to us signing Mozgov back in the summer of 2010, seemingly nobody in the NBA having heard of the guy, and him being good enough to play meaningful minutes almost immediately, be part of the Melo trade, and eventually made almost $90 million in his career.

Who and where is the Timofey Mozgov of 2024?

Who and where is the Timofey Mozgov of 2024?

Hopefully Hukporti

Macri today makes the argument that the presence of Mikal and, especially, OG, means we may finally be moving away from the era of the Knicks playing a traditional rim-protecting center for 48 minutes of every game, with Randle functioning as the center on offense when Mitch sits, and OG functioning as the center on defense:

I’m not sure if I’d go that far.

I think they would way rather have a C that can both score and defend the rim. What I think adding Mikal does is upgrade the perimeter defense. So not only do we have good matchups for guys like Brown, Tatum, George and Maxey, when we face Cs like Porzingis or even to some extent Embiid, that drags out C out, our rim protection is less of an issue because we have a solid perimeter defense.

I think at a minimum you need a solid perimeter or interior defense. It’s rarer to have both. We now have both, can help Brunson bit, switch a bit etc..

If Mitch is healthy and 100%, our defense is going to be top 5.

OK, actual free agents, then: Moses Brown, Luka Garza, Damian Jones, Udokah Azubuike, Bol Bol, Thomas Bryant, Kai Jones, JaVale McGee, Cody Zeller, Drew Eubanks, Nathan Knight, and Daniel Theis.

Didn’t we sign Nathan Knight once before? Let’s get him back in here.

I said this yesterday.

I think we are reading too much into what happened yesterday.

Plan “A” was signing I-Hart.

There’s a plan “B”, but not among the players available in free agency. They probably have their eyes on a couple of Cs and are going to revisit things after they get to see how Bridges performs as a 2nd option (when Randle is out) and how Mitch’s health holds up.

If Mikal passes the test as 2nd option, then I think they are going to trade Randle for an upgrade at C rather than pay him for his over 30 years. That would move OG to PF etc…

JaVale McGee

I want this just to see at what systolic blood pressure Thibs blows an aneurysm.

“There’s a plan “B”, but not among the players available in free agency. They probably have their eyes on a couple of Cs and are going to revisit things after they get to see how Bridges performs as a 2nd option (when Randle is out) and how Mitch’s health holds up.”

Yabbut, in the meantime we lose a bunch of games that we otherwise might have had a chance to win. No bueno as a “plan.”

OK, yeah. No McGee.

Spurs drafted him, Nets own his rights, Jokic said he deserves to be in the nba:
Nikola Milutinov

I remember reading some years ago that the Knicks have at least one and maybe more scouts assigned full time to Europe, while other teams didn’t have as many resources assigned there. We selected two European players this year. I hope it’s because we did more thorough scouting in Europe than other teams.

Or because we thought that they wouldn’t come over anytime soon so that we wouldn’t have to pay them anything.

4 weeks ago
Greek actor-fan of Panathinaikos BC describes his experience on the Euro league Final Four having Knicks scouts behind him that were stunned by the atmosphere.
Looks like we are searching badly!

https://www.gazzetta.gr/plus/2340835/stankogloy-gia-final-four-itan-apo-piso-mas-skaoyters-ton-knicks-oi-opoioi-eihan

Who and where is the Timofey Mozgov of 2024?

15 years later, I doubt there’s some “hidden gem” anymore, the NBA teams are scouting Europe much more now.

Knew Your Knicks made a great call, Nikola Milutinov is probably the best candidate.

Other candidates to “mozgovize” are turkish national team Ercan Osmani and serbian big man Uros Plavsic (who went to Tennessee and played in last year Summer League).

JaVale McGee

I’m so old that I watched his mother play in the Italian WBL… 😀

How the hell am I supposed to suddenly know how to read in Greek? LOL

means we may finally be moving away from the era of the Knicks playing a traditional rim-protecting center for 48 minutes of every game

There’s a part of me that loves this, but there’s another part that knows Randle isn’t the best rebounder and OG is a bad one. Our identity, which was pounding teams on the glass, could become our weakness.

And if Josh Hart has to move into the small lineup to negate that, he negates the five out bc teams still probably won’t guard him.

#How the hell am I supposed to suddenly know how to read in Greek? LOL#

Hahaha! I had to bring Facts!

The most irreplaceable thing about Hartenstein, btw, is his fluidity. Katz referred to him as “fast processing”, which essentially is another way of describing the same thing: he’s always in the right place.

To go the route we’re going, i.e. the one star route, you need a 5-man unit that flows like that. Mitch can replace the numbers but he makes things 4+1 because he doesn’t flow with anyone. As does nearly every other replacement option.

The kind of guy we need to play center is fast thinking and fluid. Not a lot of guys like that. Wendell Carter Jr strikes me as the optimal replacement but he seems unattainable with what we have left.

That Ryan Dunn kid would’ve been nice. He seems like a potential Draymondesque center.

And hell there’s always Draymond. At least he’d stop talking about us.

But that’s the kind of center we need: a cerebral one. We don’t have Kevin Durant and James Harden here. We can’t just plug in any guy with decent numbers. Our center needs to form Voltron with the other 4.

Hubert, I’ve always thought of Randle as a very good rebounder whose numbers have been slightly depressed by playing alongside the likes of Anthony Davis and Mitch. Last year, his TRB% was 14.6, which would have put him in the top 15 for the league if he played enough games to qualify.

Am I misjudging? I could see Randle just inhaling rebounds when he plays as a small-ball 5. Plus, odds are that most Mitch-less bench units would also feature Josh Hart.

Macri and his Substack commenters are now talking up the idea of Walker Kessler, which Macri thinks would at minimum cost us Deuce.

Especially since the man got paid more than he otherwise would have if there was some ability to prevent both moves without a 3 year commitment

I think there’s a decent chance (maybe 25%) that Hartenstein never earns the $72mm we could have guaranteed him.

If he has the kind of year Mitch just had in his second season, he’ll be cut by the Thunder and he won’t be a very attractive free agent.

I’m really surprised it didn’t take 3 guaranteed years to make him move.

Macri and his Substack commenters are now talking up the idea of Walker Kessler

I mentioned him yesterday, too. I’m a big fan, but can we really get this guy from Ainge with limited resources?

Deuce for Kessler is a no brainer. But I imagine it would cost Deuce, Dadiet, and three seconds.

Mitch just had his second season? He’s been around for a few more years than that now.

One of The Strickland guys has been crunching Hukporti’s game tape from the Australian league and has found something very interesting — Hukporti hitting floaters and making plays out of the short roll.

We may have something more on our hands here than the pure rim runner/shotblocker type that his draft reports advertised.

Deuce for Kessler is a no brainer. But I imagine it would cost Deuce, Dadiet, and three seconds.

Would you do that?

Maybe, but not yet. I’d explore other possibilities first, but quickly.

Damn, that’s a tough one. I love Deuce, but Kessler is a terrific rim protector, which is something I think we still need as long as Jalen’s out there.

If we could secure a legit backup like Lowry, I would maybe do this trade.

Watched some Hukporti highlights yesterday
Idk about his health but his game seems VERY Exciting!

I’d have to do more homework on Kessler.

If we give up all that we will be truly bereft.

I got you, Doogie…

If, in the second season of his deal, Hartenstein has the kind of year Mitch just had, he won’t be a very attractive free agent.

Randle was fantastic at the 5 in NOLA.

was he really though? when he played with AD his offense was good but nothing special. 22 pts, 2.9 assists per 36 at TS of 59%. the team was good in those minutes but AD was the 5 on D. now, in the 800+ minutes where he truly played 5 his numbers were very good: 28 and 4.5 per 36 on 62% TS and 4 TOV. but the team was terrible in those minutes, playing at -5 per 100 and running a defensive rating that would have been bottom 3 in the league and a rim attempt per 36 that would have been worst. yes, this was a different group of teammates, but he did have jrue holiday playing with him in a lot of those minutes and kenrich williams playing the OG role. i am also suspicious that we can get all of the advantages that 24 year old julius had playing the 5 at age 30. but i do agree we can get some.

i am suspicious whether we can make the defense work well enough against most good-team opponents compared to the offensive benefits. don’t get me wrong. i’m also curious. the OG/Siakam/FVV lineups in toronto without a 5 weren’t a disaster on defense, they just didn’t work that well on offense. but my best guess it won’t work well enough and we’ll have to do something else to set ourselves up to be the win now team we’re designed to be.

i did see will hardy glare at kessler several times last year like he shot his dog and i know there are lots of whispers that they’re open to moving him. but i don’t think they would even consider doing it for deuce, p daddy and 2nds.

Thanks for the clarification, Hubie.

I’ve been a huge Walker Kessler fan since before the draft, so swapping out Z-man fave Deuce and trinkets for him would be just fine by me. He’d pass the 80/20 test by leaps and bounds.

I’m with pt, though, Ainge is not gonna go for that.

Perhaps the small lineup simply doesn’t have Randle in it. Maybe it’s the Nova 4 and OG.

Re: the centerless lineup, honestly, my first thought after the trade was that it would drastically cut Hart’s minutes.

Randle offers you very little rim protection, but if you’re talking 10 minutes a game max against 2nd units, I think it works.

Remember, this unit would feature Deuce/Donte/Hart on the perimeter, so rim protection would be even less necessary than with the first unit. Plus, in order to maximize Hart, he has to be tasked with rebounding, and I think he and Randle could cover the boards during those minutes.

But we all know the real issue is injury insurance for Mitch. Maybe Hukporti comes over and they groom him well enough to take over when needed?

All of this put together should at least get us to the trade deadline, at which time we can add more center power if need be.

Plus, by the time the dust settles, I’m sure we’ll have added a vet min big to sit and watch games. Has anyone heard of this “Taj Gibson” fella?

@wojespn
BREAKING: Cleveland Cavaliers All-Star guard Donovan Mitchell has agreed on a three-year, $150.3 million maximum contract extension that includes a player option for the 2027-2028 season, sources tell ESPN.

@JCMacriNBA
There it is. Only 2 additional years under team control…which means we might be doing the whole “Will Donovan Ask Out” routine again a year from now.

That said, Strat brings up a good point about moving off Randle at some point.

It kind of got lost in the shuffle this summer, but Randle’s next contract could become a toxic asset. Based on past negotiations, I do think Randle would be open to a more “reasonable” extension, but it still might not be enough of a haircut to merit keeping him.

Depending on how Mikal plays in the offense, a younger 3/D stretch big on with a small contract might be a better fit in the long run… think Patrick Williams but bigger and better.

I’ll believe that Thibs will employ a small-ball lineup in anything but token minutes when I see it. Unless by small it is meant an undersized rim protector like Precious. If the over/under was 10mpg, I would bet heavily on the under (not really, but still…)

Cleveland’s wildly underrated. I really like the Atkinson hire there.

They had the worst injury luck of any team in the East. When they were at their best, they played stretches of basketball that were longer and better than our January.

The Garland-Mitchell, Mobley-Allen things need to get worked out, but those are pretty easy fixes.

I see your point Alan, but from a big picture CBA perspective iHart going from a capped out big market team (Clippers) to a non capped out big market team (us), and then from a capped out big market team (us) to a non capped out small market team (OKC) is not the worst outcome in the world. Especially since the man got paid more than he otherwise would have if there was some ability to prevent both moves without a 3 year commitment.

It benefits the owners, but not the players, by depressing salaries (which is why it’s unlikely to change). If the Knicks were allowed to bid higher, Hartenstein would likely earn even more money (for example, a guaranteed third or fourth year). As it was, OKC knew what number they had to beat and could work around that. $29m/year sounds like a lot, but it’s a two-year deal.

Apparently, if we use either of our traded player exceptions, it hard caps us at the first apron. And since we’re reportedly doing everything possible to avoid the hard cap, we won’t be using them.

I’m not itching to trade Randle at all. I believe that the two all-nba’s and 3 all-star nods were not a mirage, and any path to the NBA finals will be easier with him than without him.

Maybe that opinion will change after this year, but it seems very cynical to devalue him at this stage. That January run was as much on his shoulders (npi) as anyone’s. He’s a fucking beast. I’ll worry about his next contract when that time comes.

It benefits the owners, but not the players, by depressing salaries (which is why it’s unlikely to change).

it really doesn’t. salaries are going to be ~50% of BRI by the terms of the CBA one way or another. the byzantine constraints benefit some owners relative to others, and some players relative to others.

Thibs loves rebounds

But we all know the real issue is injury insurance for Mitch.

I was just thinking about how much fun it’s going to be around here when Mitch plays 42 minutes on the second night of a back-to-back in December.

BREAKING: Cleveland Cavaliers All-Star guard Donovan Mitchell has agreed on a three-year, $150.3 million maximum contract extension that includes a player option for the 2027-2028 season, sources tell ESPN.

Most likely Leon knew this was coming, told Dolan the guy he (Leon) had been telling him was the star gettable for the five 1s wasn’t available, and that was the trigger for Dolan to tell Leon to spend the five 1s.(*)

In terms of the other issue, what evidence is there that Thibs is going to abandon all his principles and all of a sudden now want to play smallball?

(*) And thus the leaks to the press, including Lowe, about how the Knicks had evaluated the available superstar market before pulling the trigger on Mikal.

what evidence is there that Thibs is going to abandon all his principles and all of a sudden now want to play smallball?

He abandoned all his principles and all of a sudden green lighted all the 3PAs under the sun.

Any of Precious, Tillman, Wagner, Theis, or Wiseman would be fine with me.

“Most likely Leon knew this was coming, told Dolan the guy he (Leon) had been telling him was the star gettable for the five 1s wasn’t available, and that was the trigger for Dolan to tell Leon to spend the five 1s.(*)

In terms of the other issue, what evidence is there that Thibs is going to abandon all his principles and all of a sudden now want to play smallball?

(*) And thus the leaks to the press, including Lowe, about how the Knicks had evaluated the available superstar market before pulling the trigger on Mikal.”

Most likely, this is entirely made up.

I think it’s both true that the current roster lends itself to non-traditional lineups more than ever before under Thibs, and that we still need another borderline starter quality center because you have to assume Mitch will miss serious time.

Trading Deuce for Kessler would strike me as panicky. Unless you really buy Kessler as a high-level defensive anchor, players of Deuce’s (admittedly niche) archetype are harder to find. Deuce has also gotten better every year and will only be 24 on opening night, so there’s still some upside there IMO whereas I don’t see what upside is left with Kessler.

Sharpe remains somewhat interesting to me. You have to think him and his agent want to get him the hell out of Brooklyn, where he hasn’t been able to get 1,000 minutes in a season playing behind freshly minted $100M man Nic Claxton. The economics of acquiring him involve…politely asking the Nets to include him in the existing trade (presumably for some extra low-end draft capital).

I think the ideal moves now would be bringing in Precious and Tillman, cut Sims unless we plan on ever playing a pure switch scheme… even then probably cut him.

This is another noteworthy punishment for going over the first apron, btw:

Can’t sign a player from the buyout market who was earning more than the non-taxpayer mid-level exception ($12.9 million) before getting waived

The small market owners cabal really cleaned up in the last CBA.

I would be utterly shocked if the Knicks simply cut Sims. He seems like the perfect 11-15th man on a team in our situation.

Kessler is a no, Ainge would start the conversation asking for Hart, Divo, Deuce and 2 1sts.

I would honestly just bring Precious back and run with Mitch as the starter. I want to see what Randle can do healthy with this team and I like the way Precious developed last season, I really think he could be a useful player.

I would also love to see more minutes for Randle at the 5 when OG and Hart are in the game, I’m confident they can keep up with the rebounding and those lineups can be a menace on offense.

I’m just very confident overall going into the season, the east should be more or less the same, Philly will be better with George but they have their injury issues to worry about, and the rest of the field is more or less the same.

“Trading Deuce for Kessler would strike me as panicky. Unless you really buy Kessler as a high-level defensive anchor, players of Deuce’s (admittedly niche) archetype are harder to find. Deuce has also gotten better every year and will only be 24 on opening night, so there’s still some upside there IMO whereas I don’t see what upside is left with Kessler.”

I think this take both overrates Deuce and underrates Kessler. Why you would think that a 22yo Kessler has no upside left while Deuce still has some untapped potential is beyond me. And I don’t think undersized defensive combo guard is some kind of scarce commodity.

Not to mention that a) DDV will now be coming off the bench in what was Deuce’s main role last year, b) we just drafted an older (i.e. hopefully NBA-ready) player that is actually a backup PG, and c) have a dire need at C, and possibly at starting C if Mitch gets hurt yet again.

I would be utterly shocked if the Knicks simply cut Sims. He seems like the perfect 11-15th man on a team in our situation.

I doubt they do it (if anything he’s traded as part of removing the hardcap) but:

(1) he’s been really terrible so far
(2) we need 2 competent backups for Mitch injuries, and
(3) having a 4th C on the roster is excessive.

That Ryan Dunn kid would’ve been nice. He seems like a potential Draymondesque center.

Draymond averaged more than .8 assists per game in college

I may be crazy but isn’t Walker Kessler way more valuable than Deuce?

Is his defense low key terrible despite the blocks?

I would love having a Mitch Kessler platoon.

“(1) he’s been really terrible so far”

He’s been just fine for a player earning his salary.

“(2) we need 2 competent backups for Mitch injuries, and
(3) having a 4th C on the roster is excessive.”

I don’t think there is an excessive element to whatever you do with your 12-15 roster spots. This is especially true if Precious is one of those guys, as he’s just as much of a backup PF as a true C. Same with Tillman.

Knew Your Nicks said:

Watched some Hukporti highlights yesterday
Idk about his health but his game seems VERY Exciting!

I watched too. They are only highlights and these are all offensive plays but what I saw is a big-bodied 5 that could post up, take and make hook shots, step-back baby jumpers and floaters. He runs the pick-and-roll well finishing strong at the rim. I’m also pretty sure he’s a lefty. see Hukporti’s highlights video here

Here’s NBA Draft Room’s scouting report:

Hukporti is a physical specimen with NBA size and athletic ability. His movement skills are impressive for nearly 7-feet, 250lbs and he certainly passes the eyeball test. Has some growing up to do and will have to show that he can lock in and put in the work to be great.

He projects as a role player early in his career and will have to earn minutes with his rebounding, interior defense and running the floor but he’s got some offensive talent as well and should develop into more of a scoring threat some years down the line.

His ability to get off the ground at his size is impressive. He’s a shot blocking force who reacts well and has a quick first jump.

He scores most of his points right around the basket, either on dunks or short lefty hooks and layups but is becoming a more capable outside shooter, showing good mechanics.

This may have already been said, so forgive me if it is repetitive. I know that it appears that it was a mistake to offer iHart only a 2-year deal, but I can’t imagine that he would have agreed to anything more than something with a player option in year 3, which he clearly would have turned down. Then it becomes a matter of: could we have outbid OKC for him, and would we have, given the cap implications?

Personally, I don’t see a world where iHart is worth $30M AAV on this team. I would have been okay with that happening, because I love the guy. But I think he is only somewhat better than a healthy Mitch, not twice as good, and matching or exceeding that deal would have totally capped us out. So in a way, the 4/$72 limit may have saved us from chasing, although I don’t think Leon would have gone as high as OKC did anyway.

So we are back to the mindset we were at when iHart was signed and Mitch was magically retained: Healthy Mitch is our starter and a likely lesser player is going to be the backup. I just hope we can find someone better than Precious for that role, and would only sacrifice Deuce for someone of Kessler’s caliber.

One of The Strickland guys has been crunching Hukporti’s game tape from the Australian league and has found something very interesting — Hukporti hitting floaters and making plays out of the short roll.

I saw this film yesterday where Hukporti show a lot of interesting skills beside being able to finish lobs, jump and block shots for a large man and the such. He shows some decent footwork and moves around the basket far superior to anything Mitch can do and made a few decent quick decisions passing the ball.

They worked this guy out two years ago, kept an eye on him and then drafted him after a bad injury. They might actually think he can play… https://youtu.be/owMGNeUro5I

it really doesn’t. salaries are going to be ~50% of BRI by the terms of the CBA one way or another. the byzantine constraints benefit some owners relative to others, and some players relative to others.

Fair enough – I should have written that small market owners are happy with the deal.

@BrunsonPeroneusLongus – your video shows Huk on defense. Definitely not a slouch there as a rim protector.

Hukporti is definitely a very interesting prospect. I don’t place a lot of value in what a player does in the obscure places he’s been playing, but there are some things that stand out:

-he has great size
-he runs the floor very well for his size
-he has reasonably good timing
-he is strong and well-proportioned
-he has some rudimentary offensive skills
-he has a great motor
-He’s not old…just turned 22

I’m definitely more excited about him than I was about Sims, who out of college seemed to be a mostly slow-twitch, plodding player with some very limited upside. Sims has been a great find at #58, but Hukporti seems like a guy who should have been drafted much earlier and could be a steal.

Will he be in Vegas? I sure hope so!

Here are 16 minutes of Hukporti highlights.

How did this guy last until #58?

I’m just very confident overall going into the season, the east should be more or less the same, Philly will be better with George but they have their injury issues to worry about, and the rest of the field is more or less the same.

I couldn’t disagree more, Bruno. I think the East is 20% harder next year.

Giannis is criminally overlooked. The Sixers are really good. Cleveland is a major sleeper. We could be anywhere from 2 to 5.

Indiana and Orlando are creeping up, too.

At this point Precious seems like the least bad option, but C is a problem that will require solving down the road. Mitch with no quality backup in the playoffs is no bueno.

Precious is an innings eater who can rebound and play some D, but I don’t want that guy playing heavy minutes for me in the playoffs.

Here are 16 minutes of Hukporti highlights.

How did this guy last until #58?

Not crazy athletic, but if those weirdish herky jerky moves that end in hook shots and avantgarde fadeaways translate even a bit, that’s already 200% of Jericho

How did this guy last until #58?

There were many on this board who were against giving Kevin Bleepin Durant a 4 year contract after he tore his Achilles tendon. That’s the only thing I can figure. He certainly appears to have a skill set to be drafted higher.

If the Knicks sign him for more than 2 years, you will know they are serious about him.

I remain fascinated by Jock Landale too

Here’s Hukporti’s combine interview, sounds poised and confident, talks about playing against and being friendly with Alex Sarr.

Yabbut, in the meantime we lose a bunch of games that we otherwise might have had a chance to win. No bueno as a “plan.”

I don’t think they care exactly how many games they win early in the season as long as the team is playing well and in the playoff mix.

If Mitch is healthy and 100%, I doubt we’ll notice a huge difference. IMO Mitch is a better defender than I-Hart when he’s healthy. What we’ll lose is a little spacing and playmaking on offense.

By the deadline, they’ll have a very good line on what Mikal can bring to the table and how Mitch is holding up physically. They’ll get a better look at the rookie. That’s when they’ll decide whether they are happy with what we have or need to make a bigger move at C.

If they decide to upgrade C, that’s when Randle might be traded. They can move OG to PF and have plenty of SGs/SFs. Then they’ll have their final team in place for the playoff run. But if Mitch holds up and it’s all working, we might be done now other than firming up the bench.

Z-man, that’s the best highlight video.
The first 8 minutes is all about his offense. It shows his dominant post-up game which includes step back baby jumpers, slams, hook shots, runners, and head fakes. There’s also a number of free throw shots and his form is pretty damn good. He moves well without the ball and has a knack for driving the lane. One thing I really liked was how he uses his body, legs and weak arm to create space. It’ll be interesting to see what he can do against an NBA player. At the 8:15 mark we see his midrange game and his jumper is solid. He even hits a straight-away 3 pointer.

Then, at the 8:45 mark the video shows his passing game. He’s a willing and smart passer and shows patience.

But the best highlights start at the 9:35 mark. Defense. Wow! What a rim defender. He dominated the paint with blocks, steals, dives on the floor, gritty intensity, fierce rebounding, body control to stay with his man (On one play the attacker spins into the lane, he spins the other way like a mirror image and blocks the shot).

I definitely want to see summer league now.

I would love to sign Precious as Randle’s backup and an emergency center.

Looking at Hukporti’s combine measurements, he has big hands (tied for 3rd widest, 7th longest), tied for 7th tallest at 6′ 10 1/2″ (same as Missi and Filipowski), tied for 5th highest standing reach at 9’3″, tied for 11th longest wingspan at 7’2 1/2″.

He didn’t participate in the athletic testing, which is a concern. How much did he lose coming off that achilles injury? He’s more than a year and a half out, but maybe there’s still some residual recovery to be had.

Here’s what the NBL commissioner had to say about him going into the NBL season:

NBL Commissioner Jeremy Loeliger said Hukporti’s return was further validation for the Next Stars program.

“Ariel has unfinished business. We are super excited to see him back out on the court, and I’m sure he’s going to remind us all very quickly why he’s so highly regarded and destined to make a massive impact on the game not only here, but in the NBA in the coming years,” Loeliger said.

“Ariel has grown immensely since joining our League, as a player, as a person and as a phenomenal professional athlete. The way he conducted himself throughout his rehabilitation; staying in Melbourne to encourage and support his teammates throughout the season, was exemplary and speaks to the kind of person he is.”

It also said:

“In his debut season, Hukporti led the League in defensive rating and became the only player to average more than a block per game before their 20th birthday.”

This tells me that the defensive instincts are there, it’s really all about his athleticism returning.

Why do we have to wait to re-sign Precious?

And what exactly is the deal with Hukporti’s Achilles? How long ago was that?

According to HoopsHype all 4 rookies will be in Las Vegas. I’m wondering if the missus will let me fly out there 🙂

“And what exactly is the deal with Hukporti’s Achilles? How long ago was that?”

September 2022

Is Rokas coming over?

A Vegas starting lineup of Kolek, Rokas, McCullar, Dadiet, and Hukporti would be the bomb!

Great Hukporti stuff today.

The good news is that he has played since his Achilles surgery, and quite clearly played better after the surgery than he did before. The surgery doesn’t seem to have hurt his development at all.

Reading more about him, he was a great pick at 58. He wasn’t just a scrub in the NBL, he was an outstanding player in limited minutes. He was one of the best rebounders and shot blockers in the league, and the defensive anchor of the best defensive team in the league.

He’s a legitimately large man, and is no lumbering stiff— he has very quick hands and seems to come out of nowhere to block shots. Offense is probably going to be mostly dunks and putbacks at first but he does have a little floater that looks promising. It’ll take some time of course for him to adjust to NBA speed but it’s not hard to see this guy sticking as a classic rim running C. Already 22 with lots of pro experience, so it might not take him all that long to find a slot in the rotation.

Really good pick at 58, I must say.

Here are 16 minutes of Hukporti highlights.

How did this guy last until #58?

Wow, that was flat out impressive.

I know it’s against inferior competition and we are only seeing the good stuff, but he may have more offensive skills than either I-Hart or Mitch already.

He has a decent handle for a big man, finishes lobs, has a nifty little hook, was finishing on the P&R, posting up mismatches really well, running the floor, passing out of double teams etc… If he could run the offense out of the pinch post even Phil would like this guy. 😉

On defense he looked good and we know Thibs is going to upgrade his defense even more like he did with I-Hart and other Cs.

This may have been one of the steals of the draft. I can’t see how this young man is not getting minutes by mid season. We may not have to do anything else before then.

I am genuinely excited for summer league to see him play.

Why didn’t he go until #58? Lack of scouting on him?

Hukporti definitely seems like an upgrade on Sims for the 3rd big spot, and maybe if we wind up including Sims in the Bridges trade we’ll bring him over this year. I don’t think there’s real upside there, but the physical tools and energy look good. He’s even a not-terrible free throw shooter!

Still, we need a full-blown platoon partner for Mitch and Hukporti isn’t that, at least not in the short-term. I hope Mo Wagner takes the opportunity to Hartenstein himself, but he might be attached at the hip to his brother.

Him, Isaiah Jackson, and Sharpe strike me as the best remaining, arguably attainable options…though let’s see what happens with Paul Reed.

Rokas will not play in Vegas if Lithuania qualifies for the Olympics. These are the teams in their way:

* Mexico
* Cote D’Ivoire
* Italy
* Puerto Rico
* Bahrain

So there’s a pretty good chance we don’t see him. How good has Italy been recently?

They play Mexico tonight at 8:30pm

It makes me wonder if there’s a red flag with Hukporti that we don’t know about. Still, we’re talking pick #58. Great time to take a flyer on someone who seems to have lots of potential.

I don’t buy Hukporti’s post up game at all. Maybe he hits a couple hook shots here and there, but he’s mostly going to block shots and grab rebounds.

The red flag was probably his Achilles issue, but it doesn’t seem to have slowed him down.

I think one of either Sims or Precious is going to be moved and the other will be the backup. Hukporti will be 3rd and maybe the backup by the end of the season (unless they pick up a backup cheap and short now). There’s always Taj. Is he working out? 🙂

They play Mexico tonight at 8:30pm

Any way to watch this game?

I don’t think there’s any particular “red flag” with Hukporti besides the achilles issue. He just has a low ceiling and a skillset that NBA teams think they can find on a dime if they need to.

Wiseman to the Pacers is interesting. Good for us in multiple ways. He might see the floor when we play them, increasing our chances of winning those games, and it presumably makes Jackson more gettable.

Love Taj, but he’s the definition of cooked.

So now the cope is that a guy who went damn near undrafted is gonna step in and give us 80% of iHart? Most likely he’ll be closer to 80% of Sims.

I’m still reeling from the fact that we went all in to end up with a worse team than we had last year. That we had every opportunity to use the draft as a plan B for the inevitable iHart departure and didn’t. That we had every opportunity to plan for this in trades and didn’t.

Our options now appear to be magic Hukporti beans or punting half the season with no center (factoring in that Mitch is 100% to be hurt by December) and hoping something materializes at the deadline, at the likely cost of of a key rotation piece, possibly our 2nd best player! I can’t believe this board’s tone on this is anything les than apoplectic.

I’m honestly not sure we are top 5 in the East next year! I don’t see us beating Philly in a series now that they’d have arguably the 3 best players. Cavs will greatly improve just from better injury luck and more development from Mobley. It’s not clear we’re better than the Bucks if their stars are healthy. ORL got better and has tons of internal upside, as does IND.

Going forward, we have no advantage against any of these teams in terms of our avenues to improve. This is it, and I don’t think even the staunchest pessimists here, myself included, would have predicted that the expenditure of our entire asset haul would lock us into such an underwhelming, flawed, and unbalanced roster for so long, with virtually no way out.

This is a teardown now, and the most realistic hope now is that we realize that while Brunson et. al. still have close to enough value to replenish our draft assets.

Being a contender after aeons and also being excited bout your summer league squad!
That’s Genuine Bing Bong Situation!
Love it!

I don’t think there’s any particular “red flag” with Hukporti besides the achilles issue. He just has a low ceiling and a skillset that NBA teams think they can find on a dime if they need to.

Right. He’s not an extremely sexy kind of player.

There are some other things to like about his game: he’s a bone crunching screen setter, and seems to relish this part of the job. Also shows some coordination on the pick and roll and a floater game that doesn’t look too bad.

He’s a very “Knicks-in-the-2020’s” kind of center.

Obviously in the minority (of almost certainly one) here, but I still think a Mitch trade is the plan B.

They may send Mitch and Deuce out but I don’t know how much I’d like that.

Any player drafted at 58 would come with reasonable doubts and fears but judging only by his limited highlights i wouldn’t have any problem to believe him being a Top15 pick.
We’ll see

This is a teardown now, and the most realistic hope now is that we realize that while Brunson et. al. still have close to enough value to replenish our draft assets.

OMG Relax. 🙂

The loss of I-Hart is not huge. It’s probably a net zero at the starting position when Mitch is playing at 100%. It’s at backup and when Mitch is out that we’ll lose something. He is a plus C, but not that good or irreplaceable.

Randle on the other hand is replaceable in that we have OG to play PF and a multitude of SG/SFs that are excellent rebounders/playmakers for their position and better defenders than Randle is.

Unlike the playoffs, Mikal can pick up most of the scoring slack if Randle is replaced. It’s also likely we’ll get more offense from any C we trade for using Randle than we got from I-Hart.

Do we really care all that much about the first couple of months?

We’ll see what we have and make a move if we have to.

People said we couldn’t get OG and we did.

People said we couldn’t get Mikal and we did.

I’d bet anything they have some targets in the mind and will patiently wait and then do it.

Obviously in the minority (of almost certainly one) here, but I still think a Mitch trade is the plan B.

He could be part of a Plan B later, but it’s hard to imagine them trading Mitch now, getting back a better C and still wondering about backup C. He was WAY more likely to be traded if I-Hart came back.

So there’s a pretty good chance we don’t see him. How good has Italy been recently?

Well, Max can tell us all about Italy’s chances, but taking a quick look i only know Gallo on Italy’s side, while Lithuania has Rokas, OAKAAK Kuz, Montejunas and Sabonis. I’m guessing the lithuanians are favorites to qualify, but Italy has a long basketball history, and maybe they can surprise Lithuania.

The bigs in this draft all had major question marks…even Clingan and Edey relative to their respective draft positions. In that sense, it’s a good draft to have taken a flier on whoever fell to #58….Bona, Post, Hukporti, Igodharo…

Hukporti probably had the best chance of being underscouted. The one thing he brings that stands out to me is strength. He’s got a very nice frame for a 22yo, and seems to like to bang. He’s also a quick leaper with a long standing reach, so maybe by holding his position with his strength he doesn’t have to load up to block shots the way the smaller guys do and won’t be a foul machine like lots of rookies tend to be.

This is all wishcasting in the desert that is now our backup C position, but it is at least a very pleasant mirage to behold for the time being!

Here are 16 minutes of Hukporti highlights.

How did this guy last until #58?

Consider me irrationally excited about Ariel Hukporti.

If the Knicks sign him for more than 2 years, you will know they are serious about him.

Too soon.

The next couple of seasons will largely come down to how close Mikal comes to justifying the enormously steep price we paid for him. This goes beyond how high we peak out in the playoffs. The guy who was dominant for a couple of months after being traded to Brooklyn was pretty close to being worth it. The guy who was mediocre as a #1 option last year, or who was a #3-4 guy in Phoenix, probably isn’t. He’s got to be something like Jaylen Brown for me to come around 100% on that trade.

Which is an interesting question for this crowd. Contract aside, just based on talent, fit, etc., would you rather have traded the same package for Brown or for Mikal?

C’mon, Pags. Mitch is *100 percent* doomed to be injured by December, even though he’s played in 52 out of 70 total December games—74 percent—over the course of his career? And Embiid and Paul George are what—guaranteed to be fully healthy in December?

(By the way: No, I’m not saying that playing in only 74 percent of his December games is anything close to awesome; that’s like 60 games out of a total season. I’m just saying that it’s not a 100 percent lock that he’ll be injured by then, either.)

Guys you don’t have to respond to Pags doing an obvious bit.

Which is an interesting question for this crowd. Contract aside, just based on talent, fit, etc., would you rather have traded the same package for Brown or for Mikal?

I think Mikal was underutilized by the Suns and is way better than he looked on the Nets last year. It was down year because none of them cared. Last year the Nets were in semi tank mode hoping to eventually build around Mikal as their #1. He’s not a #1, but he’s probably a solid #2.

I think he may wind up being underutilized with us for awhile given Brunson, Randle and OG will also want the ball. That’s why I keep saying they are probably going to take a good look at Mikal with Randle off the court. If Brunson, Mikal, OG, Hart/DDV and Mitch is not having any issues creating and scoring, Randle can be moved, Mikal can be the #2 and we can land a solid two way C that fits.

Summer League starts in Vegas against the Hornets in 11 days!

to justifying the enormously steep price we paid for [Bridges].

You guys seem to think we paid more for Bridges than Anunoby but that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny once you take off the RJ Barrett hate glasses.

RJ & the first pick of the 2024 2nd round = the two 2025 picks.

Immanuel Quickley = two firsts

All that’s left is one unprotected first and the swap that probably won’t matter.

We pretty much gave up one more pick for Bridges on a great contract than we did for OG on an expiring.

OK, I’m legit excited about Hukporti now. Interesting that he’s also a character/intangibles guy too — not that it quantitatively moves the needle, but it does make me more optimistic about his ability to continue to develop. Coming back from an Achilles tear shows character, even if it might mean the injury’s lowered his ceiling.

As to why he dropped, maybe bigs in the Australian league are overlooked and under-scouted? Before this year’s draft, it was only LaMelo Ball, Josh Giddey, and Ousmane Dieng drafted out of the NBL — two guards and a wing. And Alex Sarr played in the States for Overtime Elite before going to the Australian league.

Send Ariel to Thibs’ finishing school for bigs and let’s see what we’ve got!

Mitch is in fact injury-prone, but for now, it mainly comes down to whether the ankle surgery and revision is going to hold up. He’s not like RWIII with chronic knee issues, but the fact that the initial surgery failed so soon bothers me. We are now in the 6-8 week time frame when he was said to be getting re-evaluated. Until he is playing pain-free for a sustained amount of time, we won’t know how that turns out.

“RJ & the first pick of the 2024 2nd round = the two 2025 picks.”

I disagree

“Immanuel Quickley = two firsts”

I very much disagree.

Put differently, if the Knicks never traded for OG and then offered RJ, IQ, one unprotected pick and a pick swap for Mikal, I think the Nets laugh at that offer.

I went back to look at the archives after the 2018 draft

My statement on Mitch then.

Sure, we should be in show-me mode, but Robinson might have been the steal of the draft. If he pans out, and Knox doesn’t bomb (can become a rotation player) this draft might look different to many in a couple of years,

Note that a lot of Knickerbloggers were just as excited about Mitch.
I’m actually more excited about Hukporti. He’s the steal of this draft.

Summer League starts in Vegas against the Hornets in 11 days!

Nice!

NBACentral
@TheDunkCentral
The New York Knicks are showing interest in Walker Kessler, per
@MikeAScotto

“The Knicks have also made inquiries on the trade market, showing interest in Jazz center Walker Kessler, league sources told HoopsHype, along with Hornets center Nick Richards, as previously reportedby HoopsHype.”

The loss of I-Hart is not huge. It’s probably a net zero at the starting position when Mitch is playing at 100%. It’s at backup and when Mitch is out that we’ll lose something. He is a plus C, but not that good or irreplaceable.

Come on, strat. Losing our 3rd best VORP guy absolutely is huge and you know it. iHart is a lot better than Mitch now; he’s 90% of Mitch on defense and 150% of Mitch on offense. Not only is Mitch always hurt (even when he does play he’s usually hobbled in some way) but he’s gotten worse at the rim and the FT line every season. What will he be down to this year, 45% FG and 25% FT?

Even if he is playing well, any opposing coach can simply choose to have Mitch subbed out by fouling him repeatedly to negate our entire offense. Mitch is great as a backup, but for these reasons he is a terrible starter.

Randle on the other hand is replaceable in that we have OG to play PF and a multitude of SG/SFs that are excellent rebounders/playmakers for their position and better defenders than Randle is.

Without Randle we are completely Brunson-centric on offense like we were in the playoffs, easy to scheme and no threat to overcome actual good defenses.

Unlike the playoffs, Mikal can pick up most of the scoring slack if Randle is replaced. It’s also likely we’ll get more offense from any C we trade for using Randle than we got from I-Hart.

This is a fantasy. Mikal has a 900-minute sample of being that good on offense and about 14,500 of being way, way worse than Randle. Which do you think is more likely to manifest?

Do we really care all that much about the first couple of months?

Yes! The first couple of months is most of the season. We are ALL IN. This is it. 3-4 playoff runs. And we’re setting ourselves up to have the 5th or 6th seed for the first because he had no plan for iHart.

We’ll see what we have and make a move if we have to.

That we’re here AFTER being all-in and spending every asset we have is a massive management failure. Hubert and E don’t go far enough.

People said we couldn’t get OG and we did.

Yes, because we had the assets to pay his price.

People said we couldn’t get Mikal and we did.

Yest, because we had the assets to pay his price.

I’d bet anything they have some targets in the mind and will patiently wait and then do it.

The time to do this was over the last week! We had no plan and missed the boat. Now it’s too late to address this issue without compromising the depth and talent base that would have made us great with iHart. We don’t have any more future equity to trade for present, so we’re stuck hoping for the perfect lateral move to materialize. Lateral moves being lateral, it’s not likely to make us any better than the 5th-6th seed we are now.

KnicksMuse
@KnicksMuse
·
In an ESPN free agency round table, 5 writers were asked who got closer to the Celtics this offseason: the Knicks, or the 76ers.

Their answers:
76ers — Tim Bontemps
76ers — Chris Herring
76ers — Jamal Collier
76ers — Andrew Lopez
76ers — Kendra Andrews

Mikal doesn’t seem like a big enough name to move the ESPN crew

Ainge will make Leon pay up for Kessler.

C’mon, Pags. Mitch is *100 percent* doomed to be injured by December, even though he’s played in 52 out of 70 total December games—74 percent—over the course of his career? And Embiid and Paul George are what—guaranteed to be fully healthy in December?

He is averaging 47 games a season over the last 4 years. Injury-prone 7-footers don’t tend to get more durable as they age out of their prime years. If he manages to stay healthy through December he’ll just get hurt later, which isn’t any better.

He’s not 100% to miss time in December, but as you have conceded, it’s pretty much a lock he’ll miss significant time, and ~70% is probably around the top end of his durability outcomes for next year. There’s also the issue that his skills are on a very steady decline.

The impact of his missed time last year was minimal or even positive since iHart turned out to be a significantly better player. This year, he leaves a gaping hole that we apparently won’t even try to fill until the season is 2/3 over, at which point we may well be fighting for the play-in.

Without Randle we are completely Brunson-centric on offense like we were in the playoffs, easy to scheme and no threat to overcome actual good defenses.

This is a fantasy. Mikal has a 900-minute sample of being that good on offense and about 14,500 of being way, way worse than Randle. Which do you think is more likely to manifest?

On the Suns Mikal was 3rd-4th option on a team loaded with elite scorers. IMO, it’s a mistake to look at his Suns minutes and think that’s all he’s capable of. He was underutilized there. He can create some offense on his own. You don’t want him as your #1 option, but I think he can be the #2. I’m sure they will test that this season before trading Randle, but if he passes, Randle is gone unless they can add a starting another way.

I’m worried about Mitch’s health just like everyone else, but if he stays healthy, he’ll get back to 100% on both sides and will probably improve at least a little on offense over time. His development has been killed by all the injuries.

Their answers:
76ers — Tim Bontemps
76ers — Chris Herring
76ers — Jamal Collier
76ers — Andrew Lopez
76ers — Kendra Andrews

Mikal doesn’t seem like a big enough name to move the ESPN crew

Wait guys, did anyone tell them we officially got the steal of the draft at #58?

His highlight video against minor league scrubs half a world away sealed the deal!

Hukporti fell because he has skills that the Knicks and Thibs love and flaws that the Knicks and Thibs don’t mind.

Most other teams are out on non-shooting bigs who can only play drop but the Knicks love them.

So now the cope is that a guy who went damn near undrafted is gonna step in and give us 80% of iHart? Most likely he’ll be closer to 80% of Sims.

I’m still reeling from the fact that we went all in to end up with a worse team than we had last year. That we had every opportunity to use the draft as a plan B for the inevitable iHart departure and didn’t. That we had every opportunity to plan for this in trades and didn’t.

Our options now appear to be magic Hukporti beans or punting half the season with no center (factoring in that Mitch is 100% to be hurt by December) and hoping something materializes at the deadline, at the likely cost of of a key rotation piece, possibly our 2nd best player! I can’t believe this board’s tone on this is anything les than apoplectic.

I’m honestly not sure we are top 5 in the East next year! I don’t see us beating Philly in a series now that they’d have arguably the 3 best players. Cavs will greatly improve just from better injury luck and more development from Mobley. It’s not clear we’re better than the Bucks if their stars are healthy. ORL got better and has tons of internal upside, as does IND.

Going forward, we have no advantage against any of these teams in terms of our avenues to improve. This is it, and I don’t think even the staunchest pessimists here, myself included, would have predicted that the expenditure of our entire asset haul would lock us into such an underwhelming, flawed, and unbalanced roster for so long, with virtually no way out.

This is a teardown now, and the most realistic hope now is that we realize that while Brunson et. al. still have close to enough value to replenish our draft assets.

Lol did not read.

Re: Hukporti
I’m impressed by his Draft Combine interview, he went to the process before, overcome a serious injury with great commitment, went to play in a league far from home to restore his stock and then come back to the draft process.
He sounds mature and confident.
Anyway everything you get from the 58th pick is gravy.

Re: Olympic Games Qualification Tournament
Cyber, even Mannion and Melli are former NBA players
(and both better than Kuz 😉 ), but Lithuania is the overwhelming favorite of the Group.

Okay, gentlemen, make your Walker Kessler trade proposals.

That we’re here AFTER being all-in and spending every asset we have is a massive management failure. Hubert and E don’t go far enough

We still have an out. It’s a long shot but it’s there.

But yeah, to have such a glaring hole after going all in… it’s not what you want.

Okay, gentlemen, make your Walker Kessler trade proposals.

Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.

It’s gonna be painful and probably nearly impossible without maiming a limb, I won’t speculate.

OAKAAK Kemba Walker has retired: https://x.com/KembaWalker/status/1808210766140788904

Guess who’s going back on my Knickerblocker list? His name starts with “P” and ends with “Agliacci”

it’s kind of hard to imagine a walker kessler trade that doesn’t include sprucing up the draft/rookie scale comp by sending mitch to a third team

Somehow Pags’ calculator told him that 193/4 = 47. It also failed to tell him that there were 10 less games four seasons ago.

Moe Wagner just re-upped in Orlando. So our options are down to either a trade, 2Precious2Achiuwa, or the FO and coahces believing in Jericho Sims way more than he’s given any of us reason to. (Hey, it eventually worked out with Deuce…)

RJ Barrett is owed 120 million dollars and after being freed from the shackles of Thibs moron offense he responded by posting a career high BPM of .1. He was not a valuable trade asset. He’s still young, he has real skills, but he’s a below average starter making real money.

Moe Wagner dream is dead

Moe Wagner just re-upped in Orlando. So our options are down to either a trade, 2Precious2Achiuwa, or the FO and coahces believing in Jericho Sims way more than he’s given any of us reason to. (Hey, it eventually worked out with Deuce…)

With the current roster the pretty obvious answer to the center conundrum is to play small 20 minutes a night. I don’t know if that would work, or if Thibs can be forced to do it, and there’s still a big problem if Mitch gets hurt, but it’s better than playing Sims or the last pick in the draft. We have a minutes crunch 2-4 and it at least solves that problem.

It’s kind of interesting how the center market this offseason (draft and FA) was as hot as it has been in years.

DRed, I agree that, rotation-wise, the best approach is to play more small-ball, as I discussed at the top of today’s thread. I was talking more about roster-wise, especially in regards to insuring us against the inevitable Mitch injuries.

Count me as Kessler-skeptical. He has the reputation of being an elite defensive player, but I think that’s a function of his very good block numbers more than anything else–he’s closer to good than great on defense. On offense, he’s basically another rim-runner–the 3 ball does not look likely to come around. He would certainly help our team, but surely we’d have to pay too steep a price. I’m not sure what his upside case is now beyond getting better on the defensive end, but I haven’t watched quite enough to determine if the things he lacks on that end can be changed or not.

Just sign one of the remaining backup centers and hope that Mitch stays healthy until the trade deadline.

It also failed to tell him that there were 10 less games four seasons ago.

Are we sure that Doogie’s account has not been hacked?

Thibs brought Centers back.

Lol did not read.

This was the collective response to my predictions that we were losing iHart, which everyone assured me was just typical Pagliacci doomerism. Then he signed for $29m.

Somehow Pags’ calculator told him that 193/4 = 47. It also failed to tell him that there were 10 less games four seasons ago.

Sorry, is me being off by 1.25 here some kind of substantive point, or is it your concession that you don’t actually have an argument?

Do you take the position that Mitch playing just over 60% of the games over the last 4 years makes him a reliable option at C?

This is it, and I don’t think even the staunchest pessimists here, myself included, would have predicted that the expenditure of our entire asset haul would lock us into such an underwhelming, flawed, and unbalanced roster for so long, with virtually no way out.

I don’t think Pags sounds crazy at all, to be honest.

To think losing Hartenstein is a bigger loss than gaining Bridges is quite sensible. Bridges is replacing a 3.4 bpm player, and Hartenstein is being replaced with thoughts and prayers.

It’s entirely possible we spent every asset we have and are worse than when we started.

Guess who’s going back on my Knickerblocker list? His name starts with “P” and ends with “Agliacci”

I’d do the same for you but your posts aren’t interesting enough to want to ignore.

Are we sure that Doogie’s account has not been hacked?

“Just a moment, just a moment. I’ve just picked up a fault in the AE35 unit. It’s going to go 100% failure within seventy-two hours.”

I became a fan when the Knicks at Center had Ewing followed by a young Marcus Camby. Now we’re panicking over how to replace a guy who averages 8 pts, 8 rebs and 1 block per game…

I became a fan when the Knicks at Center had Ewing followed by a young Marcus Camby. Now we’re panicking over how to replace a guy who averages 8 pts, 8 rebs and 1 block per game…

If you’re using per-game averages to define player value then it seems your understanding of the game is frozen in Ewing and Camby’s time.

Why do you suppose the smartest GM in the league gave $29m to this 8/8/1 scrub?

This is it, and I don’t think even the staunchest pessimists here, myself included, would have predicted that the expenditure of our entire asset haul would lock us into such an underwhelming, flawed, and unbalanced roster for so long, with virtually no way out.

The big flaw on the roster is backup center

I don’t think Pags sounds crazy at all, to be honest.

To think losing Hartenstein is a bigger loss than gaining Bridges is quite sensible. Bridges is replacing a 3.4 bpm player, and Hartenstein is being replaced with thoughts and prayers.

It’s entirely possible we spent every asset we have and are worse than when we started.

Thank you. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills with the abject denialism here. Not only is there a very good case that iHart > Bridges in a vacuum, but in the context of our team there is a massive gulf.

The alternative to Bridges is more minutes/shots for DDV, who played like a borderline all-star last year. The alternative to iHart is… Precious Achiuwa and the cinderblocks he calls hands, or the 58th pick in maybe the worst draft in history, who’d be lucky to make a roster in a typical year.

This is all pretty obvious and objective stuff and it’s being whitewashed like the Trump-is-a-King SCOTUS ruling on National Review. What happened to this place?

The person who’s probably most upset iHart left the Knicks is Embiid…

The big flaw on the roster is backup center

No, the big flaw on the roster is starting center.

Mitch is coming off his worst year in BPM, WS, PER, TS%, BLK, hell, every single metric except offensive rebounding. He has progressively declined in both skills and durability for years. Having him on the floor is a free ticket for the opposing coach to force us into an Ortg of 37 on any given possession simply by fouling him.

He plays in 60% of the games and can’t go hard for more than 25 minutes or so. Can’t finish lobs at all and struggles even with putbacks.

Mitch is a backup center on any team that isn’t a donut team like ours, and he’s not even reliable enough that you could do without a decent third-string C.

So yes, that’s our big flaw: the entire position of center on a team that’s all in with zero internal upside.

dude, go outside or something

As much as I loved iHart, he was never the secret key that unlocked the entire lineup, and losing him will not re-lock everything. (The key is OG.)

I was wondering who would catch that. marechal wins! He gets to choose our backup Center!!! 🙂

The big flaw on the roster is backup center

No, the big flaw on the roster is the lack of a second star after Brunson.

Our 2nd best guy, whether it be Randle or Bridges, is a head and shoulder below the likes of Tyrese Maxey, Chet Holmgren, Jamal Murray.

We were going to make up for this by being well above average across the board, similar to how the Celtics are. But we didn’t finish the job.

So now our competition has more elite talent *and* less holes in their lineup. That’s a losing combination if there ever was one

The person who’s probably most upset iHart left the Knicks is Embiid…

And Turner

It stinks he is gone but this is not the damning moment some of you are making it out to be.

I don’t think Pags sounds crazy at all, to be honest.

If instead of over 24 months, the in-out chart was done in two trades on draft night 2022, the Knicks would have been the laughing stock of the league, the analysts, and the fans.

The suggestion that this was the hoped-for result of emptying the asset chest is pure revisionist history. We can all be optimistic still, but that remains factorial.

You guys seem to think we paid more for Bridges than Anunoby but that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny once you take off the RJ Barrett hate glasses.

The view through those glasses distorts virtually everything said and thought on this blog for multiple years. OG Anunoby and Mikal Bridges are seen to this day through those lenses. They’re part matter and part anti-matter.

Why do you suppose the smartest GM in the league gave $29m to this 8/8/1 scrub?

Because OKC needed a seasoned tougher C that could defend and rebound in the short term while Chet develops and he had space to fill. He’ll be tossed when it’s time to extend Chet and Jalen.

I like RJ, he’s just not very good at NBA basketball.

It stinks he is gone but this is not the damning moment some of you are making it out to be.

I don’t think it’s damning, I just think it’s a major setback that’s very challenging to overcome. And I question the wisdom of painting ourselves into this corner.

I also think it’s nearly undeniable that we did not separate ourselves from the pack in the East as many are suggesting.

It’s still Tier 1: BOS
Tier 2: NY/PHI/MIL/CLE
Tier 3: ORL/IND

And I think Tier 3 is closer to us than we are to Boston.

Smartest GM in the NBA gave iHart 2 guaranteed years!

Having said that Leon was offering him 4 guaranteed years and just like everyone else I was hoping iHart would’ve taken it but I don’t really care because keeping OG was 1000 times more important and adding Bridges makes it that much easier to begrudgingly say goodbye to iHart.

I don’t think Pags sounds crazy at all, to be honest.

He’s not crazy. That’s why I’m responding to him.

What he’s doing is laying out the most negative interpretation of every past event and most negative possible outcome going forward and turning that into our future reality. He’s acting like a politician discussing the current economy vs the economy he inherited. He’s not crazy. He’s just omitting important facts. 🙂

iHart was very good, like I have been saying, he was our second best player last year. We’re also getting Randle back, OG will be here for a full season, Mitch might miss 20 games instead of 50 games, Bridges is certainly better than Bojan and Grimes, etc. And we’re not even in summer league yet, it’s a bit early to be hysterically panicking

Pags is overdoing it a bit but I generally agree that losing iHart and gaining Mikal might be lateral and quite possibly a net negative. Mikal hasn’t proven himself to be a star and we paid a star price.

DARKO and EPM favor Hartenstein by a wide margin. Maybe last year was a fluke for each of them but we’re essentially betting on Mikal sustaining a level of play he’s never shown across a full season.

We should still be very, very good but that’s not where we want to be after using most of our surplus picks.

#Why do you suppose the smartest GM in the league gave $29m to this 8/8/1 scrub?#

Sam has a known tendency to overpay heavy bigs and lose HOFers for nothing.
He’s smart but ain’t the smartest.

I can’t believe no one gets the galaxy brain move of signing the guy whose Achilles already blew out instead of the guy whose Achilles is about to blow out

And we’re not even in summer league yet, it’s a bit early to be hysterically panicking

This sums up the thread, really. We’re in what, day 4 of free agency? Can we please hold the hysteria a little bit?

Of course it’s shit to lose Hartenstein, he was pretty great last season, but why are we panic comparing rosters when the offseason is far from done? Come on.

1) Owen, you were unexcited by Paul George but you’re fascinated by… Jock Landale? Might want to get your t levels checked.

2) Orlando re-signed both of their scrub 3rd string centers? Wagner and Bitzdale both still have splinters in their butts from last season.

3) I was in the Valley earlier today and drove past Pagliacci Pizza on Coldwater. Almost went in, then I remembered that I don’t eat cheese.

Pacers beat us to the Wiseman punch lol. 2 year deal

Remember when the Clippers cut Hartenstein to keep John Fucking Wall, and a certain front office signed him when so many people thought he wouldn’t amount to anything?

I guess that certain front office is certainly incapable of ever finding another Center for the team, it’s over in the first week of july, we’re going into the season with Taj Gibson as a starter and we’re doomed forever.

iHart was very good, like I have been saying, he was our second best player last year. We’re also getting Randle back, OG will be here for a full season, Mitch might miss 20 games instead of 50 games, Bridges is certainly better than Bojan and Grimes, etc. And we’re not even in summer league yet, it’s a bit early to be hysterically panicking

+1000

But Bruno, if I can’t catastrophize the situation now, how will I ever feel a sense of control over things?

Checking Center salaries:
Jokic and Embiid in the 50s+ (M)
AD, Gobert around 40s
Ayton, Bam, KAT around 30+
And after them there’s Hartenstein with 29M

Really Sam?

that Orlando roster is fucking weird, their most impactful player is their “star” player’s backup and they’re paying their 3rd string center like 9 million

Orlando is the rich man’s version of our 2021 team. A defensive team led by a gifted scoring 4, surrounded by guards who can’t shoot. Franz Wagner is a better RJ.

Ayton makes $35 million. What salaries they sending out for that?

With Bogie and Fournier gone, they no longer have any fat on the salary chart. It’s now all muscle.

LOL Wiseman to the Pacers was reported by TNFH about 4 hours ago.

We were going to make up for this by being well above average across the board, similar to how the Celtics are. But we didn’t finish the job.

Um, guys, what about the fact that there was no avenue whatsoever to offer iHart more that 72/4? I get the fact that losing him sucks, but I’m quite serene. We couldn’t have done anything more. This team is still very good. Relax.

If we are trying to figure out the net of our two major changes, I look at it this way.

Is Mikal better than Grimes/DDV? Those are the starters he’s replacing.

Is DDV better than Grimes/Bojan? Those are players he’s replacing on the bench.

I think that’s a pretty big shift up.

The C position is tougher because Mitch was really starting to roll when he got hurt again, we have no idea what to expect from him next year and we aren’t finished doing whatever it is we are going to do at C.

It’s a setback, but a harder one to measure.

Personally, I’d way rather have Bridges than I-Hart because I think we can replace I-Hart or even improve on him before the year is over. It would be a lot tougher to get another Bridges.

Farfa is BACK!!!

Starters:

Brunson
Randle
Mitch
OG
Mikal

Reserves:

Hart
DDV
Deuce
Assumed backup C (Precious?)

Deep bench:

Kolek
McCullar
Sims
Hukporti

TBD:

Dadiet
Rokas

Giving Hartenstein 29M per year woulld have fucked roster balances, salary cap and locker room.
It’s definitely a Jeremy Lin situation all over again where a “smart” GM overpays and the rest are History on repeat…
Knicks did the right thing, iHart did the best for him and the “smart” one “gambled”.
As always …Time will tell

Daniel Wexler
@WexlerRules
In regard to Walker Kessler, Utah was one of the teams that conducted a pre-draft workout with Pacome Dadiet. Something to consider #Knicks
4:22 PM · Jul 2, 2024

The hysterical panicking is just part of how Pags speaks. I imagine when someone says good morning to him he responds with “how can it be good when the earth’s temperature is still rising at a rate that would ensure our demise?”

But parse through the hyperbole and there’s some good points in there.

DRed is right, of course: no one should be panicking. But criticism is warranted and concern is perfectly valid.

As much as I loved iHart, he was never the secret key that unlocked the entire lineup, and losing him will not re-lock everything. (The key is OG.)

I think it’s truly unclear.

We took off as soon as OG got here but that was also the same time iHart took over the starting C job from Mitch. And it was also when Donte started taking all of RJ Barrett’s shots. To give OG all the credit for that is reductive and willful.

OG’s gaudy record is buttressed by the fact that every single game he played was with Brunson, Hartenstein, Donte, and Hart. An additional 60% included Randle.

Basically whenever OG played, the Knicks were at or near full strength. And whenever he didn’t play, the Knicks were down to either 2 or 3 starters.

I’m watching a rerun of the Knicks-Blazers game (the one where OG screamed in pain) and just keying in on Precious. If he could improve his offensive game a little bit, he’s a pretty good energy big in a backup role. The pickings are getting pretty slim out there, so maybe just roll with him.

Against the C’s we have to defend Tatum, Brown and KP. We were very happy because with Mikal we had a solution to the three of them in Mikal, OG and iHart. Now iHart is gone and i understand the frustration, but we didn’t stand a chance to keep him. The team is still very good, and who knows how Mitch will fare against KP, maybe he can slow him down. We need to be patient and wait for a good opportunity to replace iHart. If there’s a good C to be had, i’m sure Leon will jump at the chance to get him, but until the time comes we might have to go to war with Mitch, Precious, Sims and Hukporti. We have until the trade deadline to solve this hole in the rotation, of course the sooner the better.

Daniel Wexler
@WexlerRules
In regard to Walker Kessler, Utah was one of the teams that conducted a pre-draft workout with Pacome Dadiet. Something to consider #Knicks
4:22 PM · Jul 2, 2024

Wait a minute, you mean we still have assets? 😉

The team is still very good, and who knows how Mitch will fare against KP, maybe he can slow him down.

Mitch is a quick learner. He’s grab his bad leg and injure him.

@wojespn
Orlando Magic F Jonathan Isaac has agreed on a five-year, $84 million contract renegotiation and extension, sources tell ESPN.

@BobbyMarks42
Orlando had cap space to renegotiate the $17.4M Isaac contract this year.

The contract decreases in the following years.

Only the 12th player since 2006 to have a contract renegotiated and extended.

It stinks he is gone but this is not the damning moment some of you are making it out to be.

iHart being gone is not the damning moment. The lack of any precautions or contingency plans is. This was plain to see coming from a mile away and we could have addressed it via the draft, trades, or alternate FA options. We did none of those; now those ships have sailed and we’re stuck with Mitch, pocket lint, and no assets to fix this. That is the damning moment.

I also think it’s nearly undeniable that we did not separate ourselves from the pack in the East as many are suggesting.

It’s still Tier 1: BOS
Tier 2: NY/PHI/MIL/CLE
Tier 3: ORL/IND

And I think Tier 3 is closer to us than we are to Boston.

Facts. I’d even argue you’re being generous here and there’s a pretty good case to be made that Tier 2 is PHI, CLE and we’re in Tier 3 with ORL/IND/MIL…

Orlando Magic F Jonathan Isaac has agreed

Wendell Carter is most definitely on the block after all these signings.. I have no idea if we could win a bidding war for him but they could really use Deuce and even Burks, too.

waaaaah we have an injury prone center there’s no way we’re as good as *squints* Joel Embiid’s team

Smartest GM in the NBA gave iHart 2 guaranteed years!

Having said that Leon was offering him 4 guaranteed years and just like everyone else I was hoping iHart would’ve taken it but I don’t really care because keeping OG was 1000 times more important and adding Bridges makes it that much easier to begrudgingly say goodbye to iHart.

Why does it matter for our team how many years he got? It doesn’t, except as a way for you to minimize his value and excuse Leon.

Our offer was not competitive and it was very clear in advance it wasn’t going to be. There was never any choice between OG and iHart because we weren’t constrained by cap space; we were constrained by the CBA.

Leon’s job is to get the best alternative if he can’t keep iHart. Instead we got nothing, and spent all our assets on a pretty good 3 & D wing that probably isn’t as valuable as iHart and leaves a gaping hole in the middle of our team.

Btw after kicking RJ to the curb, the Knicks were 31-12 with Hartenstein as the starter vs 3-4 when he was out.

And unlike OG’s gaudy record which was entirely compiled with Brunson, Hartenstein, Donte, and either Randle or Hart, Hartenstein complied his record with Precious Achiuwa and Deuce McBride starting over 50% of the time.

Just really getting back from pride weekend and holy fucking hell have I got a story for you…

How the hell the boo birds flocking? The Knicks still so good and the season gonna be so fun!

It’s pretty clear to me, having watched every minute of every game that OG played for us, that he was a major factor in nearly all of those wins. No one is saying that he is a one-man team, only that his fit is perfect with this team, one that sorely lacked elite wing defense before he was acquired.

The idea that the preponderance of posters had some sort of “hate goggles” through which they viewed RJ is pretty silly. As is the idea that he had more trade value on his contract than was reflected in the OG trade. It’s kind of ironic the poster who just recently admonished the board for posting about posters doesn’t get that he’s criticizing a broad swath of the board.

There’s literally one single poster that still brings RJ Barrett up, we can safely ignore it. Seems like a nice kid, hope the best for him, and I’ll never miss him as a Knick.

What he’s doing is laying out the most negative interpretation of every past event and most negative possible outcome going forward and turning that into our future reality. He’s acting like a politician discussing the current economy vs the economy he inherited. He’s not crazy. He’s just omitting important facts. 🙂

I’m really not; I’m engaging with what I think will be the median outcomes based on known facts. For example re: Mitch:

-I assume Mitch will play about 40-50 games because that it his track record.
-I assume Mitch will play under 28 MPG because he’s never hit that mark in his career and has always looked visibly exhausted in heavy minutes.
-I assume Mitch will be a poor finisher and terrible FT shooter because he has been steadily declining in those areas for years.

Could things go a lot better? Of course! But they could also go a lot worse! Mitch could promptly break another foot/ankle and play 25 games. He could become a Nerlens Noel-esque finisher. He could decline even further from the stripe, to 25% or something crazy like that.

I’m dealing in median outcomes. If you think I’m not, tell me where I’m wrong on Mitch’s track record, trend lines, and their likely relationship with future outcomes.

With Bogie and Fournier gone, they no longer have any fat on the salary chart. It’s now all muscle.

We can (and must, IMO) sign Burks for every cent up to the 2nd apron.

As ptmilo has mentioned, it must be a three year deal if you’re going to use him in an S&T now. But if you sign him to a one year deal we can trade him in January.

Now I don’t particularly want Ayton but if you sign Burks for 12, add Mitch at 14, throw in Deuce at 5 you’re just about there.

A much better trade would be Burks and Deuce for someone making $17MM or less (Carter! Carter! Carter!)

“This was plain to see coming from a mile away and we could have addressed it via the draft, trades, or alternate FA options.”

This is fair, because it was indeed obvious that there was a significantly better than 50% chance that iHart was gone.

I also think it’s perfectly rational to think that Mikal is not worth what we paid for him, or alternatively, that the position we put ourselves in asset-wise via acquiring him was an unsound use of the draft stockpile. In other words, replacing iHart should have been a priority, even if it cost us a chance at Mikal. It seems like we could have figured out a way to acquire KCP for a much lower price, and had assets left over to get a guy like Kessler.

I don’t think anyone in the draft was screaming “iHart replacement” at the picks available to us, even with a non-drastic trade-up. Hukporti probably has as much of a chance of doing that as Missi, Holmes, Filipowski, or Bona, but I would have liked to have drafted one of them to find out.

All that said, I think this team still has a finals-level ceiling. So while I think it’s more than fair to criticize management for being shortsighted, there’s still lots of cause for the highest level of optimism since the 1990’s. Seems a bit over the top to be despondent at this time…

we could have addressed it via the draft, trades, or alternate FA options

1. Drafted Hukporti

2. Rumors abound of a trade for Walker Kessler

3. Free agency is far from over

Idk if Achiuwa is enough for the back up C position but imo he deserves to make the team again.
Toughness, hustle and experience are always needed.

I’m wrong on Mitch’s track record, trend lines, and their likely relationship with future outcomes.

Mitch’s trend lines are catastrophically down or whatever because he never shoots and he played like 20 games last year. it could just be noise.

Is Walker Kessler realy the answer? – I just dont see it via eye test…
without looking up his dBPM/dEPM, rebounding %, rim protection or screen setting numbers.

Need to find someone who is in the 95th+ percentile in at least one of the 5 above metrics.

I ask again: everything I’m reading says that we declined Precious’ option as some sort of procedural move. Now that we’ve done that, is there literally some arcane rule or sub-sub-paragraph somewhere that says that we cannot sign him back at a different number now? It really seems like he should be on our squad.

Is Walker Kessler realy the answer? – I just dont see it via eye test…

I was about to ask the same question. Any Walker Kessler experts out there?

only that his fit is perfect with this team, one that sorely lacked elite wing defense before he was acquired.

The Knicks had the top defense in the association in the 2023 playoffs.

This sums up the thread, really. We’re in what, day 4 of free agency? Can we please hold the hysteria a little bit?

Of course it’s shit to lose Hartenstein, he was pretty great last season, but why are we panic comparing rosters when the offseason is far from done? Come on.

What matters is our timeline and our win curve, not the calendar.

Whether it’s day 4 or 40 of free agency, for us it’s the end because every reasonable FA alternative to iHart is gone now.

Because we have no assets, no flexibility, and no realistic targets, our offseason effectively id done. What part of that is going to change between now and training camp?

Mitch could also like have a break out season and you know not be defined by the median. It’s still like just your opinion, man. What if he plays more and better than his median outcomes.

Make sure to start all of your meat sauces with anchovies in the oil. Cook those little shits down until they’re just a sultry sheen.

Pags, don’t overextend. We need your peak abrasive pessimism in the playoffs. Going this full throttle right now makes me fear your shtick will blow its ACL by the end of July

Doogie,
we’re limited in what we can offer him (how limited depends on which apron we’ll be capped after the Mikal trade is completed) and according to “rumors” he’s hearing other offers, maybe higher than what we can offer.
Time will tell.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/07/trade-fa-rumors-markkanen-westbrook-derozan-achiuwa-trent.html

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/07/scottos-latest-markkanen-achiuwa-knicks-kessler-vucevic-sixers.html

from espn+… a new contenders tiers for the eastern conf….celts in their own and next is bucks, knicks and sixers in the 2nd and then in the 3rd tier is cavs, heat…magic and pacers..

New York Knicks

New York undoubtedly belongs in this second tier too.

The clear question facing Tom Thibodeau’s group is: Are the Knicks the East’s top challenger to Boston, or are they something less than that? The blockbuster move for Mikal Bridges, costly as it was, made sense, particularly if the team was convinced no superstar was bound to shake free in the next year or so.

It will be exceedingly difficult for opposing teams to score on Bridges and OG Anunoby, who agreed to a massive five-year, $210 million contract days ago. (Josh Hart, Donte DiVincenzo and Miles McBride certainly aren’t a picnic on that end, either.)

Still, it can’t be glossed over that center Isaiah Hartenstein, a breakout star on both ends for New York last season, just agreed to an enormous three-year, $87 million deal with the Oklahoma City Thunder — the biggest agreement an outside free agent has ever signed with the organization. Not only did the Knicks lose one of the league’s best offensive rebounders, big-man passers and rim protectors — Hartenstein held opposing shooters more than 11 percentage points beneath their averages around the basket this past season, one of the best marks in the league — they also saw their depth at the center position take a massive hit, considering Mitchell Robinson’s injury history and the physical, demanding brand of basketball that Thibodeau’s teams almost always play.

Anunoby and Julius Randle figure to spend some time as small-ball centers, but team president Leon Rose will surely be on the hunt to find a backup to Robinson in the coming days.

Thanks, Max.

“we’re limited in what we can offer him (how limited depends on which apron we’ll be capped after the Mikal trade is completed) and according to “rumors” he’s hearing other offers, maybe higher than what we can offer.”

This has been confusing the hell out of me, too: “after the Mikal trade is completed.” Why isn’t it completed? Is there even a 0.00000001 percent chance of it not coming to fruition? I’ve never seen a trade take this damn long to be “completed” once it has been announced as having taken place.

@Beeks: I don’t cook, and if I did, anchovies would be nowhere near anything I ever made. They’re disgusting on pizza, and they’re disgusting off of pizza. Just my $0.02. 🙂

This has been confusing the hell out of me, too: “after the Mikal trade is completed.” Why isn’t it completed? Is there even a 0.00000001 percent chance of it not coming to fruition? I’ve never seen a trade take this damn long to be “completed” once it has been consummated.

https://www.si.com/nba/nets/news/what-is-preventing-nets-mikal-bridges-trade-from-being-completed-01j1q60aakhk

On another note, just so folks don’t think that Hukporti is our best hope for “steal of the 2024 draft,” here’s 14 minutes of Pacome Dadiet highlights. I recommend watching them with the sound on just to hear the many languages of play-by-play coverage. Offensive (very impressive) followed by defensive (less so) highlights.

Things that stand out to me:

-he has great size
-his shot looks very fluid both spotting up and off the dribble
-he is an excellent finisher with his off hand (left)
-he has a great motor

Tell you what, his shot looks as good as Risacher’s and waaaay better than Topic’s. Maybe he is that elusive overlooked star that we never seem to hit on?

Pacers beat us to the Wiseman punch lol. 2 year deal

We’d have had the ability to sign this exact deal AND an open role that would give him a chance to show out. He’s only 23.

But we had no plan for losing iHart, so we missed out on Plans B, C, D, E, and F.

This scares the fuck out of me: “This situation could be detrimental to Brooklyn having just entered a full-on rebuild, eating up a chunk of its early stages the longer the trade is drawn out. In the end the Knicks may be forced to either forfeit the trade or cope with the idea of losing McBride, something Nets fans would likely welcome with open arms.”

What’s to stop Brooklyn from basically saying “we’re tired of waiting; forget the whole thing” (*especially* since they purportedly don’t like trading with us in the first place). Or “give us Deuce or it’s no deal at all.” It seems from this writing as if they could do so. It also seems that it is currently all on the Knicks to decide how to “finish” the trade up. Why can’t the Nets reject the trade if they don’t like what we come up with to finish it? Why would this trade even be announced in the first place if it is actually up in the air?

No accounting for taste, Doogie. I recommend cooking.

Remember when the Clippers cut Hartenstein to keep John Fucking Wall, and a certain front office signed him when so many people thought he wouldn’t amount to anything?

I guess that certain front office is certainly incapable of ever finding another Center for the team, it’s over in the first week of july, we’re going into the season with Taj Gibson as a starter and we’re doomed forever.

I won the lottery 5 years ago so it’s totally wise to light my pile of money on fire. I won it once so clearly I can win it whenever I want!

In the 2023 playoffs the Knicks played teams who were 8th and 25th in offensive rating during the regular season, in 2024 they played teams who were 13th and 2nd in offensive ratings. The 13th ranked offense was only that low due to their best player missing 43 games during the regular season but he played in all 6 playoff games vs the Knicks.

Shoddy metaphor

Checking Center salaries:
Jokic and Embiid in the 50s+ (M)
AD, Gobert around 40s
Ayton, Bam, KAT around 30+
And after them there’s Hartenstein with 29M

Really Sam?

Yes, really. When they win 65+ and trade titles with BOS the next couple years, you won’t be laughing. It turns out that elite defensive bigs who don’t hurt you on offense are really fucking valuable in the NBA.

Since we’re a blog of informed and intelligent sports fans, I think we also know that dollar values aren’t as important as the proportion of the salary cap, and that just-signed contracts will tend to look like overpays when compared to existing deals because the cap goes up every year.

But really, the money doesn’t matter to them at all, no more than it would to us. If your last coin buys you a crown, it’s a fair price.

The Bridges trade can’t be announced until July 6th, JFC this site is seriously becoming ridiculous…

Doogie,

zero chances the trade will be forfeited,
worst case scenario we’ll be capped at the first apron.

Take a breath man, you’re losing it, maybe you’re reading too many Pagliacci’s posts. 😉

Panic spreads way too quickly here…
(remember, panic hot takes are only allowed in game threads 😀 )

the flaw with the we should have signed Wiseman plan is that Wiseman fucking sucks.

Because we have no assets, no flexibility, and no realistic targets, our offseason effectively id done.

We have Deuce, Dadiet, and a bunch of second round picks. If we can use Burks for filler, that’s enough to swing one more trade. It’s Leon’s last silver bullet.

waaaaah we have an injury prone center there’s no way we’re as good as *squints* Joel Embiid’s team

Do you think it’s relevant that when their injury prone center plays, he is a top 2 player in the entire world, but when our injury prone center plays, he is the worst offensive player in the league?

I don’t want to cook.
I don’t know how to cook (or want to know how to cook).
I sure as hell don’t have time to cook.
And now I hate aprons, too.

And I don’t want to lose Deuce.

Thanks again, Max.

The Nets/Knicks trade falling apart isn’t the end of the world since the trade is a clear overpay on the Knicks end.

Top 2 player in the entire world just lost to the Knicks in the playoffs…

I would switch over to baseball talk, but I fucking hate baseball.

How bout that Aaron Rodger’s, huh?

I don’t know who Aaron Rodger is; nor do I know what possession of his you are writing about, as you omitted the word. 🙂

I miss the optimistic trolls like Ruru.

Yeah, this shit is almost painful.

Do you think it’s relevant that when their injury prone center plays, he is a top 2 player in the entire world, but when our injury prone center plays, he is the worst offensive player in the league?

Mitch isn’t even the worst offensive player on his own team. Being the best offensive rebounder in the league is a helpful offensive skill.

I don’t know who Aaron Rodger is; nor do I know what possession of his you are writing about, as you omitted the word. 🙂

Ok imma head out

Funny thing is our injury prone Center did a much better job shutting down the top 2 player in the world compared to iHart.

One thing that surprised me was that on film, Risacher looked much taller and longer than Dadiet, but at the combine, Risacher was 6’8.75″ with a 6’9.5″ wingspan and Dadiet was 6’7.75″ with a 6’9″ wingspan. They both had a 8’11” standing reach. and Risacher posted a terrible 31″ vertical, while Dadiet was a respectable 36′. The former was also one of the slowest in the 3/4 court sprint, while the latter was at least respectable.

There was this cautionary note in O’Connor’s profile of Risacher:

MINUSES
Struggles to score at the rim in the half court, making only 37.9 percent of those attempts in 2022 and 2023 competitions. This season, he made only 47.1 percent. He just doesn’t get a ton of lift at the basket, and he lacks burst off the dribble.

He’ll need to prove his improved shooting numbers are for real. He made just 29.8 percent over his final 31 games, which better resembled the 32 percent of 3s he made in his previous three seasons overseas. He’s also a subpar free throw shooter, hovering around 70 percent in every season.

Dadiet also outweighs Risacher by over 20 lbs.

Not saying that Dadiet is going to be a star, but I’d definitely be worried if I was a Hawks fan that Risacher will bust.

Seems like Panic Island is filling up.

BBA I kinda like the meltdowns. They can use it later to skewer each other when they’re all wrong. It’s entertaining for me when I’m on break at work.

Why can’t the Nets reject the trade if they don’t like what we come up with to finish it?

They could, but then they’d have to find a trade offer that beats out 5.5 firsts, and I assume there wasn’t one or they would have preferentially traded with that team. Plus…. now most teams have fired their bullets and there will be de facto less stores to shop Bridges at. And of course keeping Bridges screws the rebuild with useless wins when they are tanking for ping pong balls/.

So, no…. the Nyets aren’t likely backing out.

All that said, I think this team still has a finals-level ceiling. So while I think it’s more than fair to criticize management for being shortsighted, there’s still lots of cause for the highest level of optimism since the 1990’s. Seems a bit over the top to be despondent at this time…

There’s like 10 teams with a finals level ceiling now, and most of them are less all-in than us. We had the assets and potential to maybe build a team with a finals level floor.

That’s all I wanted. I feel that we are locking into a 50-51 win team. If it’d somehow kept iHart, I think our EV is 60+. A reasonable alternative would have put is in that 55+ zone where your championship equity starts being actually significant.

50-51 is upper mezzanine territory. 1st and 2nd round exits with maybe a Pacers-esque tour as ECF sweep fodder in our best year. Going all in for that sucks.

Well, Doogie, there’s a lot you can learn about life in cooking. But it also helps with the health side of things. I like to eat so I can quality control most of the shit I put inside me.

1. Drafted Hukporti

2. Rumors abound of a trade for Walker Kessler

3. Free agency is far from over

Nice list of 3 items but we only actually did #1, and the most likely outcome for the 58th pick in the draft is to never play an NBA minute.

#2 is vaporware that will cost us an Ainge-worthy boatload even if it does materialize.

#3 is nonsense because free agency is over for us. What viable FA can we sign at this point? Every decent alternative was off the board by the time iHart’s signing pen came out.

#It turns out that elite defensive bigs who don’t hurt you on offense are really fucking valuable in the NBA.#

Remember Kendrick?

Top 2 player in the entire world just lost to the Knicks in the playoffs…

Yes, mainly due to a shallow and weak supporting cast, to which he added a guy who would arguably be the best player on our team.

Meanwhile, we lost more talent than we gained.

Mitch isn’t even the worst offensive player on his own team. Being the best offensive rebounder in the league is a helpful offensive skill.

What rotation player on our team is worse than Mitch on offense?

What is he good at on offense other than offensive rebounding?

Funny thing is our injury prone Center did a much better job shutting down the top 2 player in the world compared to iHart.

Yes, and he lasted a whole 115 minutes before getting hurt, again.

They could, but then they’d have to find a trade offer that beats out 5.5 firsts, and I assume there wasn’t one or they would have preferentially traded with that team. Plus…. now most teams have fired their bullets and there will be de facto less stores to shop Bridges at. And of course keeping Bridges screws the rebuild with useless wins when they are tanking for ping pong balls/.

So, no…. the Nyets aren’t likely backing out.

All you have to consider to know the Nets aren’t backing out is that it would be the best possible thing that would happen for us, giving us another chance to construct this team into a real contender.

#It turns out that elite defensive bigs who don’t hurt you on offense are really fucking valuable in the NBA.#

Remember Kendrick?

Remember how I specified “that don’t hurt you on offense?”

Remember how Perk’s TS% was under .500 from 2012-2015, right in the middle of his prime?

I think there’s one thing we can all agree on, Gregg Berhalter needs to be fired.

The idea that the preponderance of posters had some sort of “hate goggles” through which they viewed RJ is pretty silly. As is the idea that he had more trade value on his contract than was reflected in the OG trade.

Bruh if you don’t think RJ Barrett and the Knicks 2025 1st are least equal you must have hate goggles on

pags…are you doing a line then typing a comment …then doing another line and typing another and so on and so on…its gonna get expensive..

#Remember how I specified “that don’t hurt you on offense?”#

Tell that to Sam. Not me.
He’s the smartest.
He had 3 future HOF at their prime and decided to go for the BigGuy.
And let Harden go ..
Bye Bye baby Bye Bye!

How many titles did he trade with Miami and GSW?

Gregg Berhalter needs to be fired.

usa soccer wouldn’t be any good no matter who coaches the team…its a fruitless pursuit…

Tell that to Sam. Not me.
He’s the smartest.
He had 3 future HOF at their prime and decided to go for the BigGuy.
How many titles did he trade with Miami and GSW?

Should we compare the worst mistakes of their FO in the last 20 years with ours’? What were we doing right around then?

How did Presti do in recovering from the financial constraints we’d never have, that forced them to break up said future HOF?

btw…i saw that the vegas wnba team had to find a new arena tonight to fit all the fans in that want to watch caitlin clark…that’s crazy..

this is hilarious…

“Rob and I did not give Bronny anything,” Redick said during a news conference Tuesday to introduce James along with the Lakers’ No. 17 pick, Dalton Knecht. “Bronny has earned this. … Bronny has earned this through hard work.”

reddick got a 500k bonus for saying that with a straight face

Pags, don’t overextend. We need your peak abrasive pessimism in the playoffs. Going this full throttle right now makes me fear your shtick will blow its ACL by the end of July

+1000

Presti had 3 Aces and burned them like roman candles.
We had a 5 a 7 and a 9 to play with.
And we re Back!

this is hilarious…

“Rob and I did not give Bronny anything,” Redick said during a news conference Tuesday to introduce James along with the Lakers’ No. 17 pick, Dalton Knecht. “Bronny has earned this. … Bronny has earned this through hard work.”

reddick got a 500k bonus for saying that with a straight face

He graduated in “Lies and Fake News” at the Donald Trump College 😀

Pags, don’t overextend. We need your peak abrasive pessimism in the playoffs. Going this full throttle right now makes me fear your shtick will blow its ACL by the end of the first week of July

Fixed! 😀

#reddick got a 500k bonus for saying that with a straight face#

LoL

What rotation player on our team is worse than Mitch on offense?

buddy the backup center right now is Jericho Sims

https://while2.ghost.io/content/images/2015/08/panic.gif

https://www.google.com/search?q=animal+house+keep+calm&rlz=1C1VDKB_enUS1081US1082&oq=animal+house+keep+calm&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIICAEQABgWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMggIAxAAGBYYHjIICAQQABgWGB4yCAgFEAAYFhgeMgwIBhAAGAoYDxgWGB4yDQgHEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgIEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgJEAAYhgMYgAQYigXSAQk2MTY0ajBqMTWoAgiwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e7647927,vid:zDAmPIq29ro,st:0

I think there’s one thing we can all agree on, Gregg Berhalter needs to be fired.

Yes. You know it’s bad when I’m actually rooting against my own country, which I gleefully did. USA Soccer is the worst.

usa soccer wouldn’t be any good no matter who coaches the team…its a fruitless pursuit…

But they could be so much more fun. We have the World Cup on our soil in two years, we can’t let this nepotistic nincompoop have the keys. We have a bottomless budget, someone great would love this job.

I was hoping they advanced cause I generally like watching the majority of the players but as a group they play far superior than what they do at the club level which is where the coaching part comes into play. The way they handled the Panama game after the red card was comical.

buddy the backup center right now is Jericho Sims

lmao he is only going to be in the rotation because we had no plan for iHart.

So let me get this straight: you’re saying we’ll be fine at center because our worst offensive rotation player from last season will now be backed up by the only even worse offensive player on the roster, who wasn’t good enough to even play last year.. well, wow.

All you have to consider to know the Nets aren’t backing out is that it would be the best possible thing that would happen for us, giving us another chance to construct this team into a real contender.

Forever forward this should be known as Canio’s Razor

I finally watched the Hukporti videos. I wasn’t particularly impressed by the beginnings of them which were all alley oop catches and dunks. I mean, those are nice and impressive in a game but a lot of big guys can do them. I was impressed by two things I haven’t seen mentioned here. One, he seems able to create opportunities for himself by making nice cuts. Two, sometimes he was closely defended near the basket, a second defender came to help, and he still found a way around both guys and scored. Overall, he looks like a nice pick.

I was also impressed with his defense, but others have also mentioned that.

So let me get this straight: you’re saying we’ll be fine at center because our worst offensive rotation player from last season will now be backed up by the only even worse offensive player on the roster, who wasn’t good enough to even play last year.. well, wow.

I would not agree with any of that

Personally, I’m not in panic mode. I think if someone had proposed trading iHart for Bridges, I would have thought that’s a great deal. Two way players like Bridges are harder to find than centers. And we still have a starting caliber center. I do agree our back up center situation isn’t great, but I’m trusting that we can spend some time checking out our rotation and then fix it if we have to.

KB was wildly optimistic about retaining IHart. It’s one of the rare times most of the regulars failed to see the writing on the wall well in advance. I feel a bit silly.

I don’t know what this thread is about but the Knicks are going to be ok. I loved this years squad but you have to be excited about 24-25 too.

“I loved this years squad but you have to be excited about 24-25 too.”

One would think! Alas…

Knicks should sign Judge to play Center.

I was not optimistic about retaining iHart. Teams are already spending expected cap raises and articles about free agent centers made it clear he was on of the most attractive candidates. Signing him for a salary in the high twenties would have hurt our budget too.

I also seem to have lower standards for success than some others. I want a fun team to watch that wins more than half its games If we are in the second tier of title contenders instead of the first one, that’s a disappointed, but not a catastrophe.

Ramona Shelburne of ESPN reporting that the Sixers were not going to make OG a max offer before Paul George:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40478287/inside-paul-george-free-agency-showdown-how-philadelphia-76ers-landed-nine-all-star

At the moment Leon was hired, I felt that I had to give him at least 3 years to pass final judgment, which for me meant Opening day 2023. Then, because Leon had not cashed in his surplus picks, I pushed that out until opening day 2024.

Since no further “all in” moves seem possible at this time, and iHart is gone, I think it is fair to give a tentative final grade.

Positives:
Leon immediately went for the hybrid approach to rebuilding by signing Thibs. From that point, there was no turning back to a down to the studs rebuild. That in and of itself deducted a partial grade, given the awful state of the roster (predicted to be the worst in the NBA). From that point, the question became: how well could Leon execute the hybrid approach? In my estimation, he did it as well as the vast majority of GMs could have, meaning that most others might have done some things better but overall would have not had the team further along than they are now. Some of the better execs would not have taken this route under any circumstances, e.g. Ainge, Presti…others might have done it this way but executed it better, e.g. Riley, Morey…but Leon has on balance been solid. He keeps his mouth shut, learns from mistakes, and hits lots of ringing doubles in supposedly dead free agency with a timely monster HR in Brunson.

Negatives:
Committing to Thibs has not been ideal. His rep around the NBA might have slowed the process down. The 2021 offseason debacle had Thibs’ fingerprints on it. Drafting has been a mixed bag, with one completely unforgivable error in selecting Obi at #8, but with some nice finds in IQ, Grimes, Deuce, and to a lesser extent, Sims. Trade-outs have been suboptimal at times, but also largely a mixed bag. Trades have also been largely a mixed bag, with some clunkers and some winners. Most trades have been of the asset neutral variety, with some overpays. OG and Mikal trades are too early to judge in full, but the strategy of expending the entire piggy bank of assets on two non-all-NBA types is certainly questionable, even though both are top performers at positions of relative scarcity.

Verdict: It hasn’t been perfect by any means, but the net result is a team that has been to the playoffs 3 of 4 years, with two consecutive second round appearances for the first time in forever, and with a youngish, highly rootable collection of lunchpail type players that embody the City’s spirit. The ‘Nova thing is kinda fun. The loss of iHart hurts, but I think we can compete with anyone if we stay healthy and get a bit of luck. It’s closer to the ’90’s Knicks in terms of sustainablilty but to the ’70s Knicks in terms of character and cohesiveness. It doesn’t feel like a championship is necessarily in the cards, but if one were to happen, it would be the most epic sports event of my adult life. And I don’t feel like most GMs would have us here, by this method or any other.

Overall grade: B+

Ramona Shelburne of ESPN reporting that the Sixers were not going to make OG a max offer before Paul George:

That’s crazy, they weren’t going to officially offer a contract to a guy who had signed with the Knicks 4 days earlier?

“That’s crazy, they weren’t going to officially offer a contract to a guy who had signed with the Knicks 4 days earlier?”

Also, did anyone here suggest that the Sixers were prioritizing OG over Paul George?

Yes, and rather emphatically.

I must have missed those posts…seemed like folks felt that OG was a plan B for the Sixers in case PG13 was unavailable.

That’s crazy, they weren’t going to officially offer a contract to a guy who had signed with the Knicks 4 days earlier?

Y’all said OG had max offers long before he signed with the Knicks.

Surely we didn’t bid against ourselves.

I have no idea what sort of offers, if any, OG had. I don’t understand your obsession with this. But on the off chance the sixers had offered OG a wink wink max they are not going to tell Ramona Shellbourne to put that in her puff piece article about how excited they are to sign Paul George.

Oh now we know what a puff piece is. But the one that said OG had a max offer (maybe two!) but he took less money bc he loves us, that was “credible journalism.”

Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. I don’t know, neither do you. Can we put this to rest?

Leon Rose may not built via sexy Top Picks or dozens of firsts and wasn’t lucky enough to be chosen by a resident superstar but he had the vision of changing the decadent culture of the team without flashy crap and turned it again to an Extremely FUN and Rootable product.
A+ by me

Can we put this to rest?

Ms Shelburne just did.

Sure, whatever. You’re going to stop talking about this now, right?

Shit, Philly giving Brooklyn a first rounder for Dorian Finney-Smith makes a ton of sense for both teams, right?

DFS reminds me of OG in terms of being one of those guys who is pretty useless on a bad team, but exceptional on a good team. If they re-sign Lowry, they could run out a starting lineup of…

Maxey
Lowry
George
DFS
Embiid

with Oubre as their Sixth Man.

Hopefully the Nets trade DFS somewhere else, as that is a scary lineup.

Any of Precious, Tillman, Wagner, Theis, or Wiseman would be fine with me.

Tillman is also off the board.

Y’all know me, I hate appeals to authority, and I won’t use that here, but at the same time, the lack of interest the Knicks have had in all of these guys sure makes you hope it is because they have something else up their sleeve, right?

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