[New York Post] – Sat, 29 Jun 2024 23:38:00 GMT
- Precious Achiuwa does not receive qualifying offer from Knicks
- Knicks not extending qualifying offer to winter trade acquisition
- Knicks Won’t Extending Qualifying Offer To Precious Achiuwa
- Key New York Knicks Player Reportedly Will Be A Free Agent
- Knicks don’t extend qualifying offer to Precious Achiuwa, who will be an unrestricted free agent, per report
[CBS Sports] – Sat, 29 Jun 2024 13:23:00 GMT
Knicks, Nets among teams that need to make trades after NBA Draft, but before free agency frenzy begins
[Bleacher Report] – Sat, 29 Jun 2024 16:30:00 GMT
- NBA Rumors: Knicks’ Mikal Bridges Trade Didn’t Trigger Plan to Move Julius Randle
- Has Knicks’ Trade ‘Triggered’ Julius Randle Move?
- Former Knicks GM says trading Julius Randle would be a mistake
- A transformed Julius Randle can close Celtics gap after Knicks’ playoff success: Kenny Smith
- Report: Knicks Want To Keep Julius Randle After Acquiring Mikal Bridges
[Hoops Hype] – Sat, 29 Jun 2024 21:24:30 GMT
- Knicks pick up Jericho Sims option
- Knicks pick up club option for developmental center
- Jericho Sims has team option picked up by the Knicks
- Knicks’ Jericho Sims: Knicks pick up team option
- NBA rumors: Knicks pick up Jericho Sims option
[New York Post] – Sat, 29 Jun 2024 19:57:00 GMT
- Knicks fans deserve to dream about a title even if it’s only June
- Bold Offseason Moves by the Knicks Bring Showtime to the Garden
- Goodbye Superteams Hello Infrastructure
- The Knicks have a beautiful bench tandem emerging from their spending spree
- Knicks see window to play for NBA title and take a swing. Risk is worth it.
[New York Post] – Sat, 29 Jun 2024 21:22:00 GMT
- Three potential targets for Knicks in NBA free agency
- Report: Knicks Interested in Yet Another Villanova Alum
- Knicks might not be done adding Villanova players after Mikal Bridges trade
- NBA Rumors: Kyle Lowry Expected to Sign New 76ers Contract in FA Amid Clippers Buzz
- Sixers Veteran Remains Potential Target for New York Knicks
[Sports Illustrated] – Sat, 29 Jun 2024 11:00:02 GMT
New York Knicks Center Gets Rough Draft Grade
[New York Post] – Sat, 29 Jun 2024 19:56:00 GMT
- Navigating Isaiah Hartenstein dilemma at center of Knicks’ uncertain free agent position
- Leon Rose, Brock Aller, and the Quest to Retain Isaiah Hartenstein
- Reports: Knicks to acquire Mikal Bridges from Nets for haul of picks, Bojan Bogdanovic
- The case for and against the Orlando Magic signing Isaiah Hartenstein
- Knicks will make Isaiah Hartenstein their primary target in free agency, but can they bring him back?
217 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.06.30)”
Make it happen, Leon. I want Queta to win a real NBA Championship and not a fake one. 😀
While I have no personal feelings toward Quetta, for your sake, Cyber, I hope it happens.
And let’s be sure to flip Homeland Security’s motto today about E: If you see something, say nothing.
(It’s actually how I feel about most of the news these days — lightly skim the headlines, maybe stop to read something about dingo ancestry…)
🧡💙
Yesterday i didn’t chime in, but to not let Hubert’s we don’t like diversity go without an answer, what i have to say is that i don’t have a problem with E’s opinions, i may not agree with him most of the time but i don’t have a problem listening to his opinions. What i have a problem is with the number of times he repeats his opinions. But this is the internet nowadays, people that are in a minority think that if they answer everybody else it’s a leveled debate, but it’s not. KBers on E’s corner are very few, and he should defend his position but not repeat it ad nauseum. Repetition doesn’t make people right, and it’s ok to agree to disagree.
Oh cool, the blog is twisting my words again 🙄
https://open.substack.com/pub/marcstein/p/what-were-hearing-as-nba-free-agency?r=3mqzv&utm_medium=ios
Exactly, cyber. There comes a point where a given poster should simply stipulate that everyone understands his/her/their POV on a given issue.
For example, we know that E believes the following:
-We overpaid for Josh Hart
-We vastly overpaid for OG in the original trade
-We vastly overpaid for Mikal in the current trade
-The in-out asset/cap sheet for the last two years is terrible
-A smarter POBO/GM would have not sold low on RJ or IQ
-A smarter POBO/GM would have a better roster with more residual assets than we have both right now, and for the next 7 years
-Thibs is a nefarious force that limits the ceiling of the teams he coaches by insisting on “his type of players,” playing a primitive style of basketball, and running his players into the ground.
-Randle is a proven loser who also limits this team’s ceiling
-Despite all this, the team is very good and will be fun watching, but has a lower ceiling than it should have.
Am I missing anything?
I thought that was what you said yesterday, but if it was not then i ask all people to read “but to not let this look like we don’t like diversity” where i wrote “but to not let Hubert’s we don’t like diversity go without an answer”.
Ironically this is the millionth time I’ve read this.
Here’s a useful guide, which I will do my best to adhere to: after you craft your post, ask yourself “is this about basketball, or another poster?”
If the latter, scrap it. Because no one comes here to read our thoughts on other posters.
Was this about basketball?
Very antsy about iHart. If he takes our offer, this offseason goes from great to spectacular. If he doesn’t, the FO has some serious work to do to protect against Mitch injuries.
“If the latter, scrap it. Because no one comes here to read our thoughts on other posters.”
…so long as they don’t go over to Team Z-man…
“Very antsy about iHart. If he takes our offer, this offseason goes from great to spectacular. If he doesn’t, the FO has some serious work to do to protect against Mitch injuries.”
Yeah, same. Although as I’ve said, replacing a non-stretch 5 is maybe the least worst problem to have in today’s NBA. iHart is worth every penny of $18M AAV but replacing much of what he does at a lower cost should be possible.
So it seems we have a couple of options to avoid the hard cap:
1. Sign and trade Precious. This has complications but financially would be the simplest.
2. Add Sims to the Bridges trade, sign one of the second rounders (McCullers would be my guess) to the higher second round contract amount, and include them, too. This is also complicated, and I think we would have to wait an extra 30 days to complete the trade.
3. Involve Mitch somehow going to a third team. Can’t imagine we do that unless iHart is back in the fold. And maybe not even then.
Indeed, Alan.
I am surprised we haven’t heard more about going the KCP route, i.e. signing him for one year w a player option, then signing him for more next year.
It’s possible iHart doesn’t want to contemplate that kind of injury risk. Or maybe we think our offer isn’t too far from the top.
Not to put the cart before the horse, but has anyone here done analysis on our ability to extend/retain everyone on the current roster (and iHart if he signs) long term given the apron dynamics.
One thing that I find refreshing about Leon is that there isn’t a lot of leaking about moves going on beyond the usual “The Knicks reportedly have interest in player X”. Most of his acquisitions have come out of the blue, including the OG and Mikal trades, which were with teams that the Knicks haven’t dealt with in years because of real or assumed beef. So it seems like anything is possible in the next couple of days/weeks.
I-Hart is CAA, right? The 1+1 option makes sense only if there is complete trust that the FO would honor it even in the case of injury.
It will be expensive as fuck and we will be extremely limited in our ability to supplement the roster.
But that is likely true with or without iHart, so it’s mostly upside for us.
“E’s opinions are so intolerably repetitive and annoying to everyone here that the way I’m going to spend a chunk of my Sunday morning is cataloging and repeating them to the people so intolerably annoyed by them.”
Never change, Z-Man.
Reposting from yesterday’s thread:
The thing I’m wondering about is the 1+1 wink wink deal. That only works if Leon is comfortable with 4/100 for iHart, and I’m not sure he is – they know a lot about his Achilles, and they may be hoping they don’t have to play the 1+1 game to keep him because they feel that 25 for 4 when he might be out for one of those 4 years is too risky.
Or separately he may be thinking about Julius, Jalen, and Mikal’s extensions and trying to figure out how they could all work. iHart is the most fungible of those players, and so, probably like the other interested execs, Leon is prioritizing other players before him.
Either way, it’s interesting there hasn’t been much chatter about it. It may also be because it’s much harder for other teams to have a speculative conversation about iHart than OG, where a clear message is easier to send without technically breaking the rules on tampering.
I will say that, though we modestly overpaid for both OG and Mikal, they were the right overpays in situations where we had no real choice, for very different reasons. This FO seems to have come pretty far pretty fast since drafting Obi and bringing back a mediocre cast around Randle and hoping Payton would be adequate. I feel pretty confident they’ve done all due diligence and won’t be caught with their pants down no matter how the iHart situation breaks. If they bring him back I’m gonna be pretty excited.
Yeah, I find that likely. I think we’re more hesitant than iHart in the 1+1 scenario.
Btw Rama, just from reading your posts yesterday, it sounds like you do believe Philadelphia made OG priority #1 over PG, Butler, and everyone else. Is that accurate? Not going to argue either way, just curious.
Thanks E! For the record, I neither plan on ignoring you, nor on calling for you to be banned. I actually get a kick out of watching you make a fool out of yourself!
Yes
I find it doubtful Hartenstein will go for a one plus one. His new contract is going to be enough more money than his old one that it represents a lot of security to sign it.
I would definitely offer iHart 4/$90 if I’m Orlando. He’s a huge upgrade over Wendell, and that’s not even an overpay considering today’s market. Plus no real estate tax down there.
The best we can do is 4/72 with a player option on the last year and a handshake that we’ll pay the difference back in a new contract after that.
The fact that PG13 is taking a meeting with Orlando is a bit promising, in that they have to wait on that situation before they can throw a bag at Hartenstein, right?
Player A
.629 TS%
13.3 USG%
11.7 PTS
10.8 REB
3.0 AST
2.7 BLK
1.2 STL
Player B
.670 TS%
12.0 USG%
11.1 PTS
11.9 REB
3.6 AST
1.6 BLK
1.7 STL
Player B is a little bit better on paper, but not drastically better, right?
Hubert is not the only one defending E. I don’t always like reading his posts, but I also appreciate a different point of view. And I think some others make it worse because they reply to what they think E is thinking instead of just replying to the actual words E just posted. To quote Bruno “ Nobody answers exactly to what has been written on this one specific thread, we all answer and discuss knowing what the positions are and what the history of someone is.”
Most people don’t line it when someone replies to them angrily because of some imputed opinion or argue against something said a while ago instead of what they just said. This of course starts an argument that the rest of us don’t enjoy reading. And of course the argument is repetitive by nature because someone deliberately brought up old arguments.
Understood.
FWIW I didn’t disagree with 99% of what you were saying. There was one critical distinction I thought you overlooked, though:
you were acting as if there was a credible report of a max offer before the deal was signed. That, and only that, would have made everything you said valid. As would a credible report right now that identifies any team willing to make a max offer.
We don’t have any of that. All we have is a single fluff piece after the signing saying OG turned down more money bc he loves the Knicks. A fluff piece with no details and vague words like “maybe”.
That is not credible journalism, it’s PR fluff. And PR fluff does not put an agent’s career on the line if it’s wrong.
I’m on the opposite side of your Philadelphia opinion for the following reasons: it would have been incredibly stupid for Daryl Morey to forego the entire player market and offer OG a max, and I don’t think Daryl Morey is stupid.
And at some point I-Hart could fear that he could be squeezed, I suppose. It happens every year. He might want to have his situation figured out by 6pm today.
No 10.9% state income tax in Florida, either…. nor 13 degree mornings in February 🙂
Macri on Substack:
FREE AGENCY THREAD
Screw it, let’s make some predictions…
Hartenstein: Magic
Paul George: Clippers
DeRozan: Lakers (S&T involving D-Lo to a 3rd team)
KCP: Magic
Klay: Clippers
Sixers: trade for Ingram
I expect the Knicks to use the taxpayer MLE on a center if I-Hart bolts. I also wouldn’t be surprised by a trade out of left field. No inside info, just an odd suspicion.
If he had received a commitment from OG, how would that be stupid? The only real good alternative to him is PG, and maybe Butler if you squint. I think many of us would prefer to max OG than the older guys in that scenario. OG fits Philly perfectly (PG does too, but maxing a 34-year old is pretty risky).
I think iHart is a good amount harder to replace than your typical non-shooting 5. His playmaking would be pretty damn hard to replace, and he’s a legitimately plus defender in a way most waiver wire centers with good box score numbers are not.
That said, Goga does seem like he has the potential to be the next iHart, as in a low-minute guy whose excellent-looking numbers may well hold in a larger role. He’s one of the few 80/20 candidates for iHart specifically.
“…but replacing much of what he does at a lower cost should be possible.”
Respectfully violently disagree. iHart is not just a non-stretch 5. He’s also a poor-man’s Jokic in terms of being a really good passer and offensive fulcrum. He’s also a much better rim protector than I gave him credit for, a great drop defender (EB, tell me I’m wrong), and he is happy to dive on the floor. He also has a money floater — big whoop perhaps, but a ton of non-stretch 5s can basically just dunk (see Mitch).
He seems to have trouble against really powerful centers (e.g., Embiid), but that’s why keeping Mitch is such a good idea. Because Mitch IS a non-stretch 5, but a huge one who is extremely good at the things one expects from such a player.
I should say that as for OG’s deal itself, I don’t love it – the trade kicker and the player option aren’t ideal. As intended, those do make him harder to trade, despite how in-demand his skill set is. But I had suggested 5/200 a few weeks before the announcement, so it’s not too far off what I hoped for. Like most hard-negotiated deals, it’s a win-win.
Yeah player A is Goga Bitadze and player B is Hartenstein. Those are per 36 numbers.
Goga is a pretty similar player. Strong rim protector, rebounder, and positional defender, with surprising passing skills for a big. Hartenstein has that little flip shot that’s pretty effective while Goga seems to be a dunks-and-putbacks kind of player, but that kind of shot doesn’t seem impossible to develop.
So I’m a little confused why the Magic, who had a similar player already on the roster but couldn’t find playing time for him, would be looking to spend a lot of money on a somewhat better but very similar player.
If we lose out on Hartenstein, Goga is the obvious backup plan. That might actually work out better in the long run. Goga can play.
Mrs Hartenstein’s modeling career, tho…
I guess so, but both are low usage and thus probably playing because of their defense. (Although these are very nice offensive nunbers for a defense first player) So how their defense is perceived matters. If one player is a big wing and can guard more positions than the other one can because the other one is smaller and only defends guards well, then the difference in market value could be large. Also, when you are comparing good players it doesn’t always take a big difference in productivity to get a big difference in market.
The thing I’m wondering about is the 1+1 wink wink deal. That only works if Leon is comfortable with 4/100 for iHart, and I’m not sure he is – they know a lot about his Achilles, and they may be hoping they don’t have to play the 1+1 game to keep him because they feel that 25 for 4 when he might be out for one of those 4 years is too risky.
i was thinking this as well, but changed my mind. i just don’t see ihart taking the pinky promise risk given his career trajectory. i think any deal that he would prefer to our 4/72 with a player option, he would also prefer to only $33mm absolutely guaranteed on 1+1. for example, a 4/90 declining deal with a po guarantees him $57mm more than a broken promise catastrophe and also lets him free after getting $69mm when he is 29 and the cap is $188 million. i am not certain someone offers this, but it’s only 10.6% of the cap by year 4, barely over the midlevel. i think there is some chance he just doesn’t get the right offer because his few potential suitors decide to shoot bigger, and a small chance he loves his situation so much he just takes a 3 or 4 year early bird player option deal year. but i can’t see him trusting a wink enough to guarantee himself only $33mm.
The only good single-player alternative is PG.
I would find the multi-player option far more appealing from Philadelphia’s perspective than going all in on OG, largely due to his availability history.
If it didn’t mean we were losing OG, I would consider the Sixers signing him to be the best case scenario from an anti-Sixers POV. They’d be all in with two guys who can’t make it through a season, and no depth. I’m much more afraid of a Philly team with KCP and 2-3 more quality players.
I just read your second post, JK. They are pretty close. What about defensive statistics?
I think we’d have a better chance at a 1+1 type deal if I-Hart already had a big payday in basketball terms. If you already have everything you want, it’s easier to take on some risk of loss in an effort to make even more.
No question there are factors we know and do not know that will go into his decision. Just saying the absence of a 10.9% drain on you income isn’t insignificant.
We really can’t underrate iHart as a secondary playmaker, and basically as the point guard of the bench units. It would suck to lose him.
EPM rates Hartenstein as a true DPOY type player, 99th percentile in defensive EPM, second in the NBA. Goga ain’t chopped liver though, as he’s in the 93rd percentile and ranks 34th. Perhaps some of Hartenstein’s score comes from playing in Thibs’ defensive system, I don’t really know.
It’s not like we’re trying to extrapolate Goga based on a tiny number of minutes, either. He played 957 minutes last year and acquitted himself well, so it’s not like we’re squinting at a 300 minute sample here.
I agree, but it may be that neither side loves that option. Leon may want to get him at his price. And JK and Noble are reassuring me that cromulent backups (at least one) may be available. Could be that the Knicks are thinking iHart at 4/72 or Goga at 2/16 are equivalent value.
Which is why there shouldn’t be a lot of kvetching over what Philly does. They might actually be worse with PG and a bunch of mediocre players than with their two offensive beasts and three or four well rounded, yet not top of the line players.
I have no problem with E.
I agree with him on some of the controversial things.
If I were to make any comment it would be that imo he sometimes turns small things into a big deal and overlooks the smart things the team has done. The “net” of it all has been very good. So even if we’ve made a few mistakes and overpaid a bit here or there (and all teams do) they haven’t been the crippling type and they’ve been more than offset by good moves.
It definitely WOULD suck to lose him, but Goga is also a pretty decent playmaker for a big. Can pass surprisingly well from the post and also on the move.
Don’t get me wrong— I’d rather have Hartenstein. But Goga on a much cheaper contract could also work out nicely.
There was a period early on in NY where I thought I-Hart was defending poorly. I think a huge part of his improvement has been on the defensive end. How much is him learning and how much is the staff teaching is anyone’s guess, but if we get another young guy in here to replace him, it’s possible he improves also.
i am not anti-goga in a break glass situation. when mitch got hurt i was even pimiping goga as a backup:
orlando got wc jr back and now have him goga and mo wagner. wagner could like olynyk also give you some back 4 minutes (admittedly be weird for them to trade him) and goga is a decent backup 5 though thibs might hate him.
but also don’t let the paper gaslight you, he’s a mile away from ihart at the moment on both ends. he’s a better shot blocker but he is still a notorious wrong spot on the floor guy. he hasn’t really gotten verticality down despite being a great sneak attack rejector and i think he’s drawn 5 or 6 offensive fouls in his career (admittedly, also a paper stat that likes to fib). i do get that saying feel / motor is indistinguishable from says eye test / trust me, so let me say: eye test, trust me. i would honestly rather take a shot at goga than drummond in a bad case, but unless thibs works absolute magic the stats will totally belie the huge decrement from ihart.
How would people feel about Andre Drummond for the taxpayer minimum?
I think that would be a solid signing for us, Alan.
I also still really like Dennis Smith Jr for the vet min, as I find it hard to believe Kolek won’t have his struggles.
Drummond isn’t all that exciting but I think the pendulum has swung just a tad far in the direction of his skillset being undervalued. He led the league in ORB% among 500+ minute players, so all the extra possessions between him and Mitch would be fun. Plus we project to be a much better eFG% team, so we’d make more of the extra shots. We’d lose everything iHart brought to the offense as a playmaker and that would hurt, but we could really demoralize teams on the glass.
I can’t speak intelligently about his defense in recent years. The numbers aren’t good, but they aren’t disastrous either.
All in all, I’d probably prefer Goga but if he’s not gettable Drummond is probably the next best option. We know he can handle starter’s minutes if/when Mitch gets hurt and I don’t think his defense would truly tank us–he’s a burly dude who can stand near the rim at the end of the day.
The most confusing thing to me is why the Knicks were gauging trade interest for Mitch if they think I-Hart is gone.
I know there are scenarios where they can trade Mitch to be able to offer I-Hart the most we can offer him, but there are other ways to do that. You don’t want to potentially lose both.
I would think if I-Hart is gone, you keep Mitch and look for another C like Goga. You don’t shop him.
If you think you are keeping I-Hart, you may still want to trade Mitch to get someone less injury prone as the backup (again Goga or someone else).
The least likely but possible scenario would be combining Mitch with Deuce for an upgrade at C, but I don’t know who that would be.
Strat, it sounds like there was a change in the chatter surrounding iHart that coincided with the Bridges trade. Before that day, Begley and others were more positive than negative about iHart taking the full Early Bird deal. Starting that day, it sounds like another team or teams made it known that they’re prioritizing iHart, and that he would probably take a bigger deal that ran 4 years. (From what I heard, he wasn’t interested in a one or two year deal with a really high AAV.) So the Mitch conversations made sense in a context where the FO thought they were likely to retain Hartenstein.
Maybe they were shopping for a better C than Mitch?
EDIT: or what Alan said
https://youtu.be/I729sIXyw40?si=m6aN_GBZhHpjhoLg
About 3 minutes in, Bobby Marks says there’s no way the Knicks will let themselves be hard capped, so the Brooklyn trade will be expanded. He leaned on the idea of adding a player in a sign and trade. So that would be Precious or Alley Oops.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40458795/sources-lebron-james-opt-eyes-new-deal-lakers
“Paul said James would be willing to work with the Lakers on signing a deal below the maximum three-year, $162 million he is eligible for to open up the full $12.9 million midlevel exception to sign an “impact player.”
“The type of player that James would be willing to make a financial sacrifice for would be an established veteran playmaker such as James Harden or Klay Thompson, or an established big man to play alongside Anthony Davis such as Jonas Valančiūnas, sources told ESPN.
“If the Lakers are unable to entice a player of that ilk to come to L.A. for the MLE, James will seek the max, Paul told ESPN.”
lmao Jonas
Man, Detroit fires Monty after one year and then brings in… Bickerstaff for 5 years? Ok, sure, it ain’t my money, but what a colossal waste.
Who’s that, Alan? Do you mean Alice Burst?
Wow.
Maybe this is Hartenstein’s next team? They seem daft enough to throw 4/120 at him.
If iHart signs elsewhere, then I’ll be gaga for Goga. Then just hope he doesn’t play like Lady Gaga.
Woj: “Restricted free agent F Obi Toppin intends to sign a four-year, $60 million contract to stay with the Indiana Pacers. Toppin emerged as a top bench contributor for the Eastern Conference finalists.”
Good for Obi.
A few hours after the news I still believe that Bickerstaff to Detroit is a joke… 😉
Yeah Alan, good for Obi, I’m happy for him.
I know you guys lol Bickerstaff here because the Knicks beat the Cavs or whatever, but he took a mess of a roster and turned it into the most exciting young team in the league between 2020-2022. His team was exposed in the playoffs under his watch, but that’s a luxury Detroit doesn’t need to worry about for a while.
https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-rumors-lebron-james-paul-george-klay-thompson-brandon-ingram-isaiah-hartenstein-more/
“Some around the league believe Hartenstein could earn roughly $23 million per year on a multi-year deal from a rival franchise that could potentially sway him to leave New York, which can offer up to four years, $72 million”
Just for info, according to a tweet from TNFH’s friend Jeremy Cohen there no way we can do a 1 +1 with I-Hart because there’s a little quirk in the new CBA:
“For any Early Bird player the new Player Contract must cover at least (2) Seasons (not including a Season covered by an Option Year).
We knew the amount of money we could give him was capped and, while it gave to some of us an interesting (???) argument, things haven’t changed in the last few months:
If I-Hart is eager to take less money to stay in New York he’ll stay, if he wants to monetize his good season no matter what he’s gone.
It’s always been this way, despite all the electronic ink spilled about it.
I want neither Drummond nor Dennis Smith Jr for largely personal reasons — both feel like something that would’ve happened during the Fizdale era (in fact, one of them was something that happened during the Fizdale era), and I never want to think about the Fizdale era again, thank you very much.
Fizdale came and went like passing wind…I don’t even think it qualified as an era…
Fizdale tanked the year they were tanking for Zion. I can’t blame him for that. He took the fall the following year, once it was clear the team was a disaster after whiffing on Irving and Durant. Again, not his fault. I’ve never understood all the hostility toward him.
Looks like Philly gonna try to sign both PG13 and KCP.
It’s more like lol because he is at best level with Monty Williams, so the thought of firing Monty with 4 years on his deal and paying both these guys at the same time is actually pretty lol-worthy.
I-Hart is going to get 20 plus million a year from the Magic
He was 4-18 with pretty much the same exact team Thibs went 41-31 with. Granted he was tasked with developing Frank and Knox while Thibs had the luxury of kicking them to the curb, but still. Come on.
Paul George and Philly fans seem like a terrible mix but I guess that’s really none of my business
Embiid and George aren’t getting any younger. One or both will be out or severely compromised in the playoffs, but they’ll have great stretches during the regular season.
Fizdale had resting confused face. Did not engender confidence.
I feel that lack of confidence was utterly justified. Maybe that’s just me.
Yeah, my money is on Philadelphia didn’t offer OG the max.
lol
Because I hate the Yankees, I did not realize that Aaron Judge is hitting .313 with 31 homers and goddamn 81 RBIs in just a bit over a half season.
I know those are discounted old man stats, but they seem to suggest he might be pretty good.
Hubert, a point of contention to your point about RJ IQ and Grimes development:
I believe the only one of those three that you can say that maybe regressed was Grimes. Quickley absolutely progressed, and many like JK47 have pointed out numbers to show that RJ never really improved much since his rookie year.
Speaking of RJ, I was one of the voices who once thought his progression was the key to whether the Knicks could approach any kind of contender status. I’m glad I was wrong, and that has alot to do with Brunson’s arrival and then ascension to superstar status, which I think sometimes people forget to realize the impact that has in changing the equations of our player valuations.
As the first IQ stan, I hated giving him up. But that’s what you do when you have a surplus of one area (guards) and a scarcity in another (2-way big wings) – trade from a position of strength.
It’s a down year for hitting too, his OPS+ is 214. That’s not juiceBonds level, but it’s as good as anyone else has hit relative to the rest of the league since Ted Williams
Haynes: “There’s growing optimism the Philadelphia 76ers will land Paul George in free agency.“
And a Sixers fan friend of mine was excited to see that George’s wife just followed Embiid’s wife on Instagram.
“He was 4-18 with pretty much the same exact team Thibs went 41-31 with. Granted he was tasked with developing Frank and Knox while Thibs had the luxury of kicking them to the curb, but still. Come on.”
Yes, Thibs is a much better coach but, Noel, Burks, Taj, IQ, Toppin, and Rose were all upgrades. No one could reasonably be expected to win right away with that misfit roster that Fizdale was handed.
I think that’s an overpay for Obi, but good for him!
The team played and looked better under Mike Miller than Fiz too.
You’re right, CDiggy.
The original poster suggested all three parties improved, and that improvement was the reason we were able to make good trades.
But none of them improved. Grimes regressed. Barrett remained bad. Quickley remained good.
Fiz had Taj, too. Payton, Barrett, Bullock, Randle, Robinson, Taj, Frank, and Knox were the mainstays.
Thibs had the guys you mentioned, but Fizdale had Marcus Morris, Bobby Portis, and Dennis Smith Jr.
Fizdale was really bad. Going from Fiz to Thibs was like trading Barrett for OG.
My post about internal improvement was a tongue-in-cheek response to the absurd post that folks seriously thought that we were going to become legit contenders on the backs of improved versions of RJ, IQ and Grimes.
Those players did turn out to be reasonably useful trade pieces. We didn’t have to salary dump RJ’s contract, which was described as “toxic” by some of Katz’s sources. Along with RJ, we traded IQ before someone signed him to a RFA offer sheet, and if the contract he signed with Ujiri is any indication, I’m glad we didn’t hold on to him. Would anyone here want to undo that trade? Not me!
The Grimes trade is one that maybe we would want back, but was universally lauded by pundits. But he was clearly worth something.
It’s quite possible both RJ and IQ wind up better players than OG. There’s some signs that they already are, and both are still pre-prime.
OTOH, there’s no chance Fiz will ever be close to as good a coach as Thibs.
I’d absolutely want to undo it and replace the assets given up with assets more in line with his market value at the time of the trade.
Like the player, don’t like the overpay. Never like overpays. There’s very rarely a “context” that justifies an overpay. “Context” is almost always just an inferior replacement word for “rationalization.”
Womp womp.
That’s it boys, we’re doomed
I told you paying OG too much would come back to haunt us.
CP3 being waived. If he wasn’t so adamant about living near his kids, I’d suggest we reach out to him about running our bench unit.
As someone who wants you to continue posting here as much as you like, I’m just gonna say when people ask questions like that it’s ok to assume we know your position 🙂
I’d give him October through March to stay home.
Eek
I will now blame losing iHart entirely on that $500k and the crappy Celtics/Dallas series that I presume caused it
Just hire his kids as assistant coaches
speak for yourself…up until that 1000th time of stating it…i thought it was still a little grey/cloudy around where he stood on that position…with that being said…the statement or question that triggered him…i believe might have also been stated for the umpteenth time…and perhaps even with the intention of triggering him again…
I don’t think IQ+RJ+2024 #31 was an overpay at all, especially given that RJ on his deal had little market value. But more importantly, I like the Knicks’ roster/asset cache situation better post-trade than pre-trade, and that was before OG played a single minute.
I don’t think either RJ or IQ together will ever be as good as a healthy OG separately, in terms of impact on winning.
I don’t think OG is worth $42M AAV or 23-25% of the cap, but I also don’t think IQ and RJ are together worth $60M AAV or 40% of the cap. So since I like the roster better post-trade, if it turns out that IQ and RJ ball out and the Raps take off, whatever. Win some, lose some.
What’s ironic here is that two posters were having a perfectly civil conversation and the very same poster who said that folks should respond to posts about basketball with posts about basketball and not posts about posters chose to post about the posters.
Other than temporary and infrequent situations of “fit,” there’s no such thing as impacting winning beyond the things you do on the floor that we can see and see measured.
“Impacting winning” in this context is just porting over the David Eckstein “effect” to basketball. It’s not a thing.
OG doesn’t carry with him magic “winning” pixie dust any more than Eckstein did.
It’s 6pm. Let’s go.
PS – I haven’t had twitter in ten years so I have to depend on you kind folks for the woj bombs and shams jams.
A former Knicks went back to his team: Luke Kornet re-sign with the Celtics 🙂
Harden re-upping with the Clippers, second year a player option.
Kornet re-signing with the Celtics for one year, so we can scratch him off the Plan B list if/when iHart goes elsewhere.
Klay is out of SF, he’ll be sign & traded somewhere, teams are talking (at least that’s what they’re reporting)…
I always kinda figured Klay would end up in Philly.
I could see him replacing PG on the Clippers if it’s mathematically possible
Chris Haynes reported the Bulls offered Lavine for CP3 and Wiggins and the Warriors were like no I think we’ll just cut CP3
I believe that OG impacts winning in ways that do not show up in the box score. Things like spacing, defensive presence and switchability, etc. These things can in fact be measured, and some AOI stats incorporate aspects of them. Which is why OG was 5th in the NBA in DEPM or 99th %ile, while RJ Barrett was in the 52nd %ile and IQ was in the 37th %ile. My guess is that synergy-based stats would more than confirm this gap, but maybe not. In any case, it’s a done deal and I’m happy with it.
I’m going to go with Alan’s suggestion yesterday that no news is good news.
Ugh, from Shams:
Why are they meeting in Eugene, OR of all places?
Maybe I-Hart is a Sufjan Stevens fan.
Apparently the Hartensteins live in Eugene, Oregon.
You know, for Kourtney’s all-important modeling career… the one that is going to be a major reason why they’ll never go to OKC.
I-Hart is a huge Animal House fan.
Hartenstein grew up in Oregon, IIRC.
Thanks, otherwise it would have been weird.
He’s from Eugene, I imagine his mom still lives there
Even his mom has betrayed us
I’d say if iHart is actually getting met by teams in person he’s going to get a substantial offer.
Drummond to Philly
Drummond to Philly with a 2-years (likely for the room exception) to be Embiid backup.
Queta re-signs with Boston on a multiyear deal.
are they doing these in reverse order
🙁
OKC to Eugene is a pretty long trip for a meeting.
Money is money, but I wonder if I-Hart really wants to play behind Chet (even if he nominally starts).
You mean the Sixers?
Don’t be sad Cyber, he plays for the (current) best team in the world, Portugal must be proud 🙂
Yeah, I’d guess they’ve agreed on years and dollars, and now OKC want to vet their potential investment. They have a potential dynasty, so they need to do due diligence on any major addition.
Maybe we can get Jowles down to Eugene to plant some meth in the mailbox.
Wtf has happened? (ala joe pesci)
Looks like i missed some Serious stuff!!!!!
Hope everyone is fine!
Apparently Denver is interested in Westbrook which makes no sense.
KCP to the magic
Kevin Porter Jr to Clippers
Russ and Denver have mutual interest, maybe gets folded into Reggie Jackson trade.
Booooriiiing
KCP to Orlando for 3 years.
Do all of a sudden teams take tampering seriously or aprons are slowing things down?
Apparently the new CBA has stronger penalties for tampering.
I’m guessing the aprons are causing a lot of problems.
At this point it’s OKC or NYK for I-Hart, isn’t it?
Their backup PG last year was Reggie Jackson. I’m not 100% convinced that anyone on their bench was better than DaQuan Jeffries.
I do think Silver managed to slow down a bit of the pre-window negotiating. You can still do the coy stuff on the phone but you’ve got to begin the hard work now.
KCP leaving is going to hurt Denver a lot unless one of their young guys really steps up their game
Westbrook is a shitty defender, a shitty shooter, and does absolutely nothing off the ball. On top of that, his game craters in the playoffs and has for years. Meanwhile Chris Paul, Lowry, and DSJr are all free agents.
The problem is that OKC is really good, so you can’t even go, “Come here if you want to win!” as they can say, “You’ll be in a good place to win and we’ll pay you a lot more money.” That’s tough to beat. Hopefully he just loves it here enough to stay.
It’s a huge loss. How the fuck couldn’t they match that offer?!
Guess we’ll find out just how much money you have to give a guy to be a backup to Chet Holmgren in Oklahoma City instead of a starter in New York…
Hollinger:
The only thing I can think of is either the front office is scared off because of apron or ownership is refusing to pay that much luxury tax.
I thought I heard the dude on nba TV say that denver could not match the offer kcp got…
“Guess we’ll find out just how much money you have to give a guy to be a backup to Chet Holmgren in Oklahoma City instead of a starter in New York…”
But would he be Chet’s backup? What about if they start iHart and move Chet to the starting 4?
Apron, bruh.
Unless I’m missing something, they should have Bird Rights and be able to match/exceed other offers
The only thing in our favor aside from not being in the worst state in the country is OKC might want to give him a short term deal
Giving 20+M per yr for a bench player seems Fournieresque
Yeah you guys have always been kinda crazy on the “Chet’s backup” stuff.
Most people who cover OKC think they don’t want to go away from five out offensive sets. So the thinking is that I-Hart might not finish games for them.
I do wonder if OKC is offering a 4 year deal. Do they want to have I-Hart in the books when they have to pay Chet and J Williams?
I doubt they’d be meeting if that were the case.
And Oklahoma is actually wonderful.
The deal I predicted they’d offer back in January is 3/75.
We could counter with a NTC, since he must know he’s getting traded after two years no matter how many they give him.
I didn’t catch the why…it might have been qualified by “they have other mouths to feed”…and this would have precluded that…
“The Golden State Warriors are signing Kevin Knox to their summer league team, per @DaltonJ_Johnson”
Someone’s gotta make Bronny look good…
Tony Jones says Denver offered KCP something similar and he just chose Orlando over them
Shooting is exactly what Orlando needs and he fits well on their defense, excellent move for the Magic.
Knox gets older, the freshman chicks stay the same age …
The Clips quit the PG-13 sweepstakes, Philly’s in the lead.
Knox: “Yeah, yeah. Let me go against Bronny on a 3-on-3 and you’ll see” 😀
Would he make Bronny look good? I don’t think he’s an actual NBA player, honestly.
KCP has a couple rings, maybe he just wants to save money on taxes and get back to the east coast
Absolutely nothing wrong with that sentiment but you should keep it to yourself and say something about wanting a new challenge or whatever
And speculation that Morey was going to sit this all out to max OG at 6:01pm is down in flames.
guess his nickname is PG13 not PR13… or something
Cade Cunningham getting 5 year rookie max from Detroit.
Do you think Philly should try and negotiate with OG now even though he’s already re-signed here?
turns out clips could have traded pg for harden and gotten the firsts instead of giving them
CP3 is ready to feed Wemby…
If about 8 different guys on Detroit simultaneously learn how to shoot, they could be stunningly above average some day
If they all do it within two years that pick might actually be a real first.
The Washington one probably has less than 1% chance of converting after their draft day maneuvers. They really don’t want to be good.
Chris Paul going to the Spurs…
That’s weird for him. I would’ve assumed he’d be more interested in ring chasing.
wonder if the spurs actually signed pop’s successor
Yeah I was wondering if maybe CP3 wants to watch Pop work up close for a year
They just need a replacement for the coach we drafted on Thursday
Watching 70-80yrs old rockers kick ass and LBJ and CP3 still playing at a high level makes you believe that Knox could play great at summer leagues for many more years
man we are never getting that wizards pick
No but any team that has Joel Embiid on it was never going to slam the door on Paul George’s face, especially after Embiid publicly lobbied his team to pursue him.
Hard to imagine Embiid asking more George, George wanting to come, and Morey telling his star, “actually, Joel>..”
In all seriousness, we will at least get two very high seconds out of it.
The Pistons pick only converts to one.
Valanciunas to Washington for 3 years.
We have entered the plane tracking portion of IHart’s free agency.
Wheels up back to OKC . . .hm
Did the Pels have the same issue with retaining Valencunis that we have with I-Hart? He was a pretty important player for them last season.
I think he told them thanks but no thanks. They flew to Oregon to beg.
Wheels up back to OKC . . .hm
i see kourtney got the fake job offer i sent
http://www.cvilleok.com/2017SeptNews/TractoySupplyCoRibbonCut.html
I think that’s more of an age/can’t play defense thing. They drafted Yves Missi, but it’d be weird if they just threw him into the starting lineup.
Wait did they really cancel the meeting?
Jonas lack of rim protection seemed like an issue for the Pels
Jonas isn’t terrible and 10 million isn’t a lot but why would you want him for 3 years
I predict that iHart will leave and become as famous as Jeremy Lin was after he left NY. The Knicks cannot match what other teams will pay and unless he takes the hometown discount, his career will go down the toilet. He’ll be rich but simply a footnote in NBA lore.
The Knicks are probably better off with an aging veteran. Even though he looked bad in the playoffs, I think Sims steps up big time next season.
No, the meeting happened earlier today.
If you are I-Hart, this is your one chance to cash in before the Achilles injury permanently limits your playing ability. Lin is a good comp, but I-Hart has even more team and coach support. If he leaves, he has to build goodwill with his new team all over again.
The Pellies aren’t a risk for iHart, are they?
The thing with Lin was that the Knicks weren’t capped in their ability to resign him because they had won their arbitration case to “match anything up to one billion dollars”. With Hartenstein, the front office probably would match any offer if they were allowed to. It’s kind of silly that they can’t. Seems antithetical to the league’s goal of having teams retain the players they develop.
They’re probably trying to bring Mitch home.
That was the reason I thought we might be interested in Ingram before we traded for Bridges. There was talk about trading Ingram and talk about trading Mitch.
.
Jericho Sims is a terrible basketball player
For those of you thinking what to do if iHart does not return, this article, which lists and ranks free agent centers, is useful. iHart is number one, followed by Claxton, who already signed for four years/$100M. Everyone else is described as worth less than an MLE. The person at the top of the remaining list is Paul Reed from the 76ers. Goga is farther down the list but considered better than Sims. There are actually fifty players on the list, with the last one being Taj Gibson. So there are options, just none of them very good. I liked the stats posted above for Goga, but Reed might be ok too.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5585200/2024/06/28/nba-free-agency-best-available-centers-isaiah-hartenstein-nic-claxton/
right now outside in a AQI of 18…
18
smell the difference…
still don’t wanna know what AQI really means…just that low is good…
Well, George to the Sixers is done: 4 years $212 million. Two of their new big three are very brittle though. Let’s see how it goes.
Let’s see, Sixers got better, Orlando got better, the Kicks should be better, the Clippers got worse, Golden State probably got worse. . .
The East could be tough this year.
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