[ESPN] – Wed, 22 May 2024 15:12:00 GMT
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[New York Post] – Wed, 22 May 2024 11:30:00 GMT
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[New York Daily News] – Wed, 22 May 2024 18:31:25 GMT
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[New York Post] – Wed, 22 May 2024 12:29:00 GMT
What the Giants can learn from the Knicks’ stirring run to win back their fans
138 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.05.23)”
I’m in the middle of listening to Katz on Macri’s podcast today. Early on, they have an exchange about how, before the deadline, the team sniffed around a player who was much-discussed by Knicks fans, and got intel that he wouldn’t be a good culture fit: maybe not as hard a worker, maybe not as willing to sacrifice his role for the good of the team, etc. Both declined to name the person, but it sure sounded like they were discussing DJM.
Other notes so far:
* Fred thinks the Knicks’ ideal offseason move would be one built largely around Bogey’s salary and lots of draft picks, with the bulk of the rotation left untouched. He threw out the idea of Bogey, Mitch, Deuce, and picks as one idea (without mentioning targets), for instance.
* Fred thinks the Knicks only would move Randle if they feel there’s a clear upgrade elsewhere, and that could either be at PF or on the wing, since OG can very easily shift to the 4. They’re not itching to do it, especially since everyone in the organization believed that Julius was 100% bought into the version of the team they had immediately post-OG trade. Also: Randle can’t sign an extension until September, and also can’t be traded for six months after signing. So if he’s still on the team come September, they’d only sign him to an extension if they’ve decided by that point that the clear upgrade doesn’t exist, and won’t exist during the 2024-25 season.
* Knicks and Bogey’s representatives can push back the guarantee date for next year’s contract. Bogey could in theory refuse, because if they don’t manage to trade him and then don’t pick up the guarantee, he’d be screwed in terms of which teams would still have interest and money for him. But Fred thinks it’s a situation where the Knicks would know in advance whether there’s a potential deal that would need his salary to complete. Neither of them said it, but reading between the lines, it sounds like they wouldn’t pick up the option just to have him on the roster next year, given the tax/apron considerations.
The more I think about possible moves this offseason, the more I want to just run it back. However- there are 2 moves I’d make if they were there- barring a Luka, SGA, or JJJ deal:
KD or Mikal Bridges. Here’s what I see in those moves..
KD:
Pros- Super efficient scorer with legit range makes for a seamless fit into the offense. Can still easily get 30 on his own, but would make the perfect 1B to Jalen’s 1A.
Cons- Longer in the tooth, even more mercurial than Randle, worse rebounder than Randle and not physical at all
Mikal:
Pros- efficient wing scorer when he doesn’t have to create a lot, plus wing defender, built in chemistry, fits the timeline better
Cons- would push OG to full time 4 and I’m not sure he’d hold up there as I can’t see DiVincenzo and Hart coming off the bench, gonna be super expensive to keep, also not a rebounder
Both options would leave the floor crazy wide open for Brunson, which means far less double and triple teams or trapping. If next season is the time for a home run swing, I’m ok with either move. But I’d still love to see a full season of the Hartenstein/ Randle/OG/DiVincenzo/Brunson lineup
I am getting a strong feeling that the Knicks will make a major push for one of Mikal, Spida, or Giannis. Beyond that:
Durant: don’t see it happening at all. The Suns would want way too much for him to recoup what they sent out, and at this point he seems like a diminished player that isn’t worth anywhere near the haul they sent out.
Embiid: I think that ship has sailed. At least I hope it has.
DeRozan: I’m not 100% out on him, it depends if he would be accepting of a more limited role, possibly a bench role. Just doesn’t seem like a great fit with Thibs or this roster.
LaVine: How badly does CHI want to get rid of him? How soon would Thibs grind his knees into dust or Fournier him? Just don’t see it happening.
Monk: Would require a sign and trade, probably too expensive and likely that he just stays put.
Tyus: I like the idea, but does he insist on starting? He’s not doing that here, probably a very reduced role as Brunson’s backup. But if he bought in, would be ideal.
Hield: low-IQ player, Thibs would hate him, but on paper would be a good Bojan replacement.
Harris: On a 7-figure salary in a bench role, could he be helpful? Was he just done with Philly or washed? I think he’s worth a look.
Melton: Can’t imagine Morey letting him walk.
Oubre: yuk
Lowry: at Vet’s minimum deep bench guy, might be perfect.
Alan,
It sounds like they are saying exactly what I’ve been saying other than I also think they should revisit Brogdon unless they have reason to think he won’t be a good fit.
Bojan is the clear and obvious salary trade chip. He replaced Fournier but with more value as a player and trade chip. Everyone knows that. If you have to add more salary to it, you add Mitch because he’s always hurt and Hartenstein works better with the starting unit. If you have you add more you add Deuce. Randle can be traded, but only for a clear overall upgrade somewhere else (wing or C) and then you slide OG to PF. I’ve been saying that for months. If they do move Randle they would also then have to add a backup PF or preferably two.
“No attempted/always failed eroticism of any kind here, please, neither homo nor otherwise.”
“So you wanna cancel Christmas, huh?”
Do whatever you want to with Christmas. I’m Jewish.
Alan, I super appreciate the podcast summary — I have my weekly podcast rotation set, so getting a text digest of one I don’t have time to listen to is awesome.
What are your guys’ thoughts on Devin Booker? I’ve been thinking of him as a 6’6 Mitchell. Apparently is a legit PG now after shifting roles to fit Phoenix’s ill-fated superteam, defense seems to have improved to a Steph Curry, “can hold his own”, average-to-solid level. Getting him could solve both the second unit playmaking and Brunson running mate issues in one fell swoop.
If by chance we hold on to Randle in a Booker trade, Brunson/Booker/Randle would be a wrecking machine on offense.
Also, Alec Burks is on a 3 yr/$30m deal that could also be useful for salary matching.
I’m not a huge DeRozan fan in general and also think we want 3 point shooting from that position, especially if Randle is back. IMO I-Hart, Randle, OG, DeRozan and Brunson will have spacing issues.
That’s one of the things that has me confused about DDV. IMO we need 3 point shooting from that position. It’s going to be hard to find someone that shoots the 3 better than DDV. But I think DDV’s defense is overrated and as a general rule I really don’t want him creating too much off the dribble. I also don’t want the offense to be too tied to the inevitable volatility of his high volume difficult 3 point shooting. So I can see both an argument for upgrading from him or keeping him as the starter and looking to upgrade C.
Z–Man, you just convinced me even more to run it back. What a motley crew of options. The only two that even make a little sense is Monk as a bench flamethrower, and Lowry as a backup PG, but he’s 38 for god’s sake and 6 feet nothing.
Your first three I’d be okay with if they didn’t cost anything, which ha ha. Once you factor in costs, most of these options don’t improve the team at all, and arguably are a real step backward. Subtraction by addition. And that probably goes up to the top three (that you even listed Harris on there is just depressing…).
Like I said yesterday — I know for some it’s fun to play GM Trade Mania, but for them just imagine you’re flipping DaQuan for a two-time All NBA power forward and two DPOY candidates, one of whom can shoot over 38% from three and drive it to the hole, the other an elite rim protector and offensive rebounding machine.
That’s a team I want to see next year.
Unless he takes another leap next season, DDV’s ideal role is microwave scorer off the bench. He’s too streaky for me to think of his position as a major strength of the team. I think if he remains a starter on an improved Knicks team, it’ll be because we added a 1A/1B scorer at the 4 or 5. Or, as Fred Katz said, we trade Randle for a 1A/1B wing and OG slides down to the 4.
I don’t think Booker will be made available at all, and if he was, it would be at a price that would make the Spida offer look like chump change. I don’t see any way on earth that it happens short of a roster-depleting mess.
We really have to stop talking about Mikal as a trade target. I know some have brought up the Toronto OG trade as an example of teams dealing with us that we didn’t expect would, but the Nets are a completely different animal
There’s no way they want to help improve the Knicks, and it’s not like we have assets that other teams don’t. I just think there’s no way they trade with us.
Booker is terrific but Phoenix he would really have to throw a fit for Phoenix to trade him
A few more from Katz/Macri:
1. In the Run It Back plan, he could see Bogey being used to get a better-fitting bench piece. The phrasing he used (not exact) was something like “a player who can run your bench offense without necessarily being a point guard, or else a tall point guard you can play next to Miles McBride.” Which is more or less what I’ve been asking for since we sent Quickley to Canada. They thought that Bogey and Alton Banks could combine to do that, but it obviously didn’t work.
2. Like others, he thinks if Donovan Mitchell goes on the market again, we’ll be interested, but not nearly as aggressive as we were when the goal was to get talent in the door by any means necessary. Given where we are, Leon and company are worried about fit, both in role and in culture.
3. Fred has no idea whether Alvaro Brosius is going to have to take a minimum contract from someone, based on how he played for us during the regular season, or if he will get a lot more based on how he played against Indy. Said the league understands by now that Andre Braugher runs extremely hot and cold.
“Unless he takes another leap next season, DDV’s ideal role is microwave scorer off the bench. He’s too streaky for me to think of his position as a major strength of the team. I think if he remains a starter on an improved Knicks team, it’ll be because we added a 1A/1B scorer at the 4 or 5. Or, as Fred Katz said, we trade Randle for a 1A/1B wing and OG slides down to the 4.”
Yeah, you can survive with DDV at the 2 but it is not ideal. He’s better suited as a backup who can step in and start if there is an injury.
Which is why overpaying for Mikal makes sense. He is an ideal starting 2 for us. Super durable, can play the 3 or even small-ball 4 to spell guys, some decent creating chops, all-league multi-position defender, synergy with Brunson, DDV and Hart, decent contract…he’s actually as close to perfect as there is out there.
I know the Nets aren’t in the business of improving the Knicks, but can they really afford to turn down an overpay with multiple unprotected picks? I mean, they have a glut of small wings, what can they possibly do to make themselves a strong playoff team that doesn’t involve an outsized offer for someone like Spida while having picks left over, which would require more picks than they have?
“1. In the Run It Back plan, he could see Bogey being used to get a better-fitting bench piece. The phrasing he used (not exact) was something like “a player who can run your bench offense without necessarily being a point guard, or else a tall point guard you can play next to Miles McBride.” Which is more or less what I’ve been asking for since we sent Quickley to Canada. They thought that Bogey and Alton Banks could combine to do that, but it obviously didn’t work.”
One guy I failed to mention as a bench piece is Spencer Dinwiddie. Is he that taller PG to pair with Deuce? Would he be interested in a vet’s minimum flier?
I’m going to copy and paste a bit of Macri today (apologies JM), who does a much better job of highlighting my concern about recency bias here than I could ever do.
“Mitchell Robinson started the season like he was shot out of a cannon… Through the end of November, he was pulling down 5.8 offensive rebounds per night. At that time, the gap between him and second place Clint Capela (4.4/g) was larger than the gap between Capela and 16th place Kevon Looney (3.1/g). On top of that, he was the only player in the league averaging at least 1.4 blocks and 1.4 steals a night.
Wanna laugh? Mitch missed 51 games this season and still finished 34th in the league in total offensive rebounds.
When healthy, he was a dominant presence who gave them a dimension even Isaiah Hartenstein couldn’t quite approximate… he was still such an important part of their team for the opening stretch of this season and against Joel Embiid in round one.”
“Anunoby’s on/off numbers were so comical – they were 23.9 points better per 100 possessions when OG played, which was just ahead of league MVP Nikola Jokic for tops in the NBA, according to Cleaning the Glass – that his presence began to take on an air of inevitability, like peak Tiger Woods teeing up in a tournament or Mariano on the mound in a big spot.”
“Deuce averaged 43.3 minutes and an efficient 17.9 points as a starter in the regular season, and then got two additional runs with the first unit in the playoffs.”
[and finally, re Randle] “Since then, all he’s done is joined Jokic and Giannis as one of three players to amass at least 7000 points, 3000 rebounds and 1500 assists over the last five years. Those two players are viewed as two of the top five organizational cornerstones in the league, winners of five of the last six MVP’s. Julius, more often than not, is fodder for the trade machine.”
100% agree
Maybe you can work a 3 team trade with the Nets to land them something while getting Mikal so it has better optics.
Mitch is an absolute bargain on his contract. He provides a special level of defense and league-best offensive rebounding. But he also has very serious limitations that make him virtually unplayable in certain situations, and he is clearly injury-prone, meaning the bad kind.
Personally, I am very ambivalent about him. I don’t think replacing the majority of the Mitch package will be all that hard. iHart has been better than Mitch at half the salary. Now he will get paid, deservedly so. So is it worth investing $30+M AAV in the C position? Or would his salary be better used to acquire someone like Mikal?
Cavs firing Bickerstaff means they’re probably not trading spida yet (which makes sense)
Mikal Bridges is not going to be available to anyone, let alone the Knicks, unless the Nets strike out on all their attempts to trade for an all star caliber player. They have assets to move. Their Plan A is clearly to ADD to Mikal Bridges. If they strike out badly, then I could see a situation where he starts grumbling a bit and they decide to blow it up and start all over instead of building around what they already have.
That’s because both those guys are much more efficient on offense, Jokic is arguably the best passing C ever and controls the offense, and Giannis is a great defender. Their respective teams are monumentally better with them on the floor than off.
Randle is inconsistent on defense, pouts when things aren’t going well, holds the ball too much and makes more than his fair share of unforgivable TOs. When you net it all out, he’s very good, but the Knicks are not a “lot” better when he plays. It’s boxscore vs. the reality of his impact on winning.
I think it’s fair to wonder if DDV can repeat his performance from last year, but if he can there’s not anyone the Knicks can get that’s a clear upgrade unless they’re getting someone like Booker
Are you guys underrating DDV? At 27 maybe he has another leap in him. His rebounds and assists actually came down on the Knicks, so improvement can come from there.
Z–Man, I agree wholeheartedly that Mitch is limited and injury prone. He is also an awesome center. Yes iHart is ‘better’ than he is, at least in various ways, but in some situations that’s not true (see Embiid, Joel). On top of that, running with iHart as your only real center is a recipe for disaster. I just don’t believe in the “You can find DPOY candidate, limited offense centers on the scrapheap” line.
I don’t think there’s any chance of Booker being trading until the deadline. That organization wants to see Durant, Booker and Beal together with a new coach and everyone healthy. If they are struggling next year at mid season, then there’s a chance that guys like Durant and Booker want out and they decide to blow it up. Beal looks unmovable to me (not that I would ever want him).
IMO rebounds are not something you can put too much weight on for the Knicks at an individual player level. There are only so many rebounds available per game. The Knicks have so many good rebounders (for their position) someone is going to get fewer than he might get on another team.
“Are you guys underrating DDV? At 27 maybe he has another leap in him. His rebounds and assists actually came down on the Knicks, so improvement can come from there.”
Maybe. He’s a good problem to have. I think his max ideal role is as a 24-28mpg player, either starting or off the bench. That’s what he was playing in January, and it worked perfectly. Then the injuries forced him into an outsized role. He handled it pretty well, but it never seemed ideal to me. He seemed to struggle in some matchups. I think of him as ideally more of a dominant second unit guy who can start when necessary.
I’m largely with you, Raven. It’s more of who do you feel better about, Mitch or the player you can acquire for Mitch?
If you could reasonably count on 100 games of Mitch, I’d be much more for keeping him, but we can’t, can we? In that sense, cashing out on him while his contract is super-favorable might be the way to go, and then trust that you can find a decent backup for him in the draft.
Dinwiddie played well on offense in a major role in Dallas, but if my Twitter feed is an indication of anything, Lakers fans didn’t like him. I didn’t watch much Lakers basketball, but it didn’t seem like he had much of a role.
Trying to summon Farfa here, but applies to any and all Knickerbloggers: if by any chance you’ll be in Sorrento tonight, Naples tomorrow night and the night after, and/or Rome until the 28th, it would be my honor to talk about how much we love Jalen Brunson over some beers.
Saying Donte is better starting and playing idk 28 minutes like in January is just saying the Knicks are better when everyone is healthy, which is true.
Mitch is not going to be more than a 20 minute man in NY if we keep I-Hart and he earns the starting spot (imo we will and he will). It’s very likely he’s going to miss games (maybe a lot) and he’s unplayable in situations where the other team is putting him on the FT line. Maybe he’ll give us 1200 very productive defensive and rebounding minutes and occasional lobs and put backs for the season?
It’s hard for me to think he’s more valuable than almost anyone we could trade him for that deserves a starting spot anywhere on this team and gives us close to 2000 minutes per season.
If there’s a starter they like better than who we currently have at any position you can trade him. If there’s not, we stay with the excellent tag team we have a C and hope he stays healthy.
Well, Cavs just improved a lot. Staying pat already looks worse.
I thought there was a pretty good consensus here at the deadline that Brogdon was the perfect fit. He either wasn’t available, the price was too high, or the Knicks saw something they didn’t like.
However, he can score off the bench, play backup PG, start if Brunson is hurt, play next to Deuce and is ready to handle playoff pressure. He would give us everything that Quickley gave us. He makes 22.5M next year. So he fits nicely with Bojan’s contract. If it’s not working he’ll remain an asset because it’s an expiring deal next year.
It almost seems like an OG level no brainer to me in terms of an ideal fit for our needs.
The Trailblazers are rebuilding. So he’s certainly not in their long term plans. Maybe they wanted to keep his veteran leadership around last year to help the young players or think he’ll be even more valuable as a trade trip next year on an expiring contract, but imo that should be target #1 unless a star shakes loose or someone knows something about him I don’t know.
I actually presumed it was Malcolm Brogdon.
Remember Brogdon made a big stink in Boston when he was part of the original Porzingis trade that fell through. And he reportedly was very unhappy about not being named the starter after Smart was traded (see link below).
Murray, on the other hand, has sacrificed his entire identity playing next to Young.
Re: Brogdon, reports said the Blazers were shopping him hard but they couldn’t get a first round pick. Then suddenly all these “actually we love Brogdon and think he’s a long-term piece” articles came out, and those didn’t pass the smell test. What rebuilding team wants a 31 year old injury prone PG?
My reading of the tea leaves is that Portland wanted to trade Brogdon for a first, the Knicks did their homework and declined, and then the Blazers did damage control.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/malcolm-brogdon-reportedly-angry-with-celtics-after-almost-being-traded
“So you wanna cancel Christmas, huh?”
Do whatever you want to with Christmas. I’m Jewish.
Ooooh… you’re not the Sheriff of Nottingham. But you’re definitely not not the sherrif of Nottingham. Maybe Little John, or Nutsy? I’ll take Lady Marian in this group of Merry Men, please and thank you.
I suppose it could have been that Katz was alluding to Brogdon, not Murray, in the comment I mentioned at the top of this thread. Has to be one of the two, though.
“Ooooh… you’re not the Sheriff of Nottingham. But you’re definitely not not the sherrif of Nottingham. Maybe Little John, or Nutsy? I’ll take Lady Marian in this group of Merry Men, please and thank you.”
What the fuck does any of this even mean? No one said that I *was* the Sheriff of Nottingham in the first place, and you just told me twice in consecutive sentences that I’m not (which I already knew). I have no idea who Nutsy is, and I kind of like it that way. Lady Marian can’t be part of a group of merry men, because she’s clearly not a man.
I’d say that I want some of whatever you’re on, but I actually don’t.
I remember those character of and culture things seemed to be leaking a little in response to DJM a while back at the trade deadline. Was I imagining that, or did I just associate the marketing of culture push as indirectly addressing not making that move. That team definitely was hard to watch and he’s kind not that great.
I’d say that I want some of whatever you’re on, but I actually don’t.
What’s your favorite book?
Doogie, I’m just saying that if I were your accountant, I would advise against this.
I like Brogdon…….always have…….and I don’t want to cast aspersions on him as a “bad guy” because he might have (rightfully) been pissed off about some stuff with the Celtics. My worry with him would be much more about injuries. He’s only played in about 58 percent of the regular season games over the past three years, and although some of that was because of Portland tanking/shutting him down early, 58 percent is still…….not great. I think he’s a really good fit, though, for the reasons already stated so well by Strat.
We really don’t, though.
This
is unsubstantiated conjecture.
Howard Beck knows the Nets front office very well and opined that they are too pragmatic to be spiteful and provincial.
You’re right about our lackluster assets but teams might not be willing to put their best assets forward for a guy who only has two years left on his deal if they know he wants to play in NY. I can’t imagine Houston is going to offer Jalen Green again, for instance.
In hindsight, it’s amazing we were able to pull off the OG trade, and for a price that all but one of us considers to be completely fair.
I actually do think DDV has a chance at making another leap. Maybe not as big as this season’s (slightly exceeding his career high TS% (59.7) on a 6.2% (!!) usage increase) but let’s see if he’s got another jump in him. Or maybe he improves his slashing or passing over the offseason. I’m not really going to bank on it, but it could happen.
So what do we think is more likely, the Nets trading Mikal to us, or Phoenix trading Booker to us?
This is hilarious. I love the pettiness.
I think Mikal is more likely. I don’t buy that the Nets won’t deal with us.
I’d throw in McBride to make it happen. He’s a pretty good player to get on a cheap contract. 3 picks plus McBride and Bojan for Mikal sounds like a great offer to me!
We could then sign a back up PG, move DDV to the bench as the 6th man and we’re ready to roll.
Another reason I think they’re talking about Brogdon is they said specifically “there was a player the Knicks could have expressed interest in” but didn’t.
It seems like the Knicks truly did express interest in Murray. They reportedly held trade talks with Atlanta, and Leon even met with Rich Paul. It doesn’t seem like Atlanta was committed to moving him, though, and wanted too much.
Brogdon on the other hand could have been had for very little and we were never linked to him.
Still a little bit worried about keeping Randle—the “subtraction by addition” thing. I can’t decide.
In fairness, the animosity between the two teams does suggest we might have offered a lot more than anyone else did.
Like DeJounte Murray.
Hubert, everything we’re talking about is unsubstantiated conjecture. I’m just basing my opinion upon the fact that the Knicks and Nets have never made significant trades with each other (similar to Mets and Yankees) and I expect that to continue.
But hey I could be wrong, and would love to see Mikal join Knicks Nova Nation!
In fairness, the animosity between the two teams does suggest we might have offered more than anyone else did.
I get what you are saying, but by definition we did offer more, perhaps not a lot–if right before he left, Masai shook OG’s hand vigorously and an underling whacked OG’s elbow with a hammer at the same time.
EDIT: I needed to edit my comment because you edited yours…
Jake Fischer: https://sports.yahoo.com/76ers-aiming-to-pursue-a-familiar-path-this-offseason-trying-to-add-another-all-star-to-joel-embiid-tyrese-maxey-143720904.html
So that’s not ideal. At minimum, it sounds like we are not definitively getting the Friends and Family discount from Leon’s son.
We def want OG, but I’m not convinced he def wants us. And his injuries prolly make him more eager to get paid well this go ’round.
I think the reporting was that OG was always a 40 million dollar man. The sourdough at Winner is pretty delicious.
But various teams left Chicago with the belief that Anunoby could reach unrestricted free agency and consider deals from other franchises in addition to New York, sources said.
suddenly haunted by visions of a december 2023 flashback scene capturing the shadowy silhouettes of masai, rj, iq, og, ike azotam & ‘is that donte divincenzo’s brother?’ furtively whispering in the corner of a speakeasy while the dim projection from an android screen of a gpt4 prompt prosaically reflects off the jukebox facade: “how hard is it to convincingly fake a hamstring injury?”
Alan, speaking of weird, and going off-topic for a moment — first, I’m probably your absolute worst nightmare citizen as I am a movie guy and just never watch series (discounting The Good Place, Ted Lasso, and Cowboy Bebop for some inexplicable reason — oh, Lady Raven says also Wednesday).
But I read this and was quite amused that she just didn’t give a fuck. Especially in the Paper of Record. Curious if you’ve done a review so I can compare notes (I don’t often watch shows, but I do like to read about them…).
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/21/arts/television/outer-range-review.html
The Cavs firing Bickerstaff point to Mitchell staying put.
https://x.com/NBA_University/status/1793455826444685381 After the immense failure to keep Brunson , the Mavs stole Irving. This is called buying low.
Raven, that’s more or less Margaret’s writing style, which I enjoy a lot. For that matter, it seems a lot of my critic friends have had themselves fun writing about Outer Range — or, as my buddy Dan Fienberg from The Hollywood Reporter insists on calling it, “Josh Brolin’s Hole.” I was bored enough by the first season that I had no interest in continuing. (It’s possible, in fact, that I stopped watching before the season ended.) But I’m happy when people enjoy what they watch, even if they’re enjoying it ironically.
We’re going to end up giving up RJ, IQ, the first pick of the 2nd round, and $40MM/year to a guy with a career BPM of 0.1… and everyone insists the one guy who thinks we overpaid is out of his mind.
Outer Range was fine. Shogun is more than fine.
Let me get this straight: if the Knicks end up having to pay OG close to the max because there are too many teams interested in him, it means that they overpaid in the trade because there were no other suitors?
Should I watch Furiosa while tripping is a big question. OG panning out is about winning a championship. If we don’t it was an overpay.
OG is worth all of that. If we haven’t all noticed, we’re a giant bag of mediocrity without him and a kickass team with him.
If OG’s career 0.1 BPM means we shouldn’t have traded/re-sign him what does RJ’s career -2.1 BPM mean?
Also, while OG’s BPM isn’t great his EPM this past season was 35th; net neutral on offense but 5th best on defense.
oh my god…the first pick of the second round….overrrpayyyyyyyyy
OG is a slighlty lesser version of Mikal. He was great with Suns, added tons of value and got Book and CP get to the finals. But we’re realizing that he’s mediocre now in Brooklyn having top lead a team. Max contract shopudl be given to 1 and 1A players not perfect role role players.
News is JB is talking about extending for $38m AAV but somehow everyone is certain that OG must be paid $40m???
EPM says that OG was the 35th best player in the NBA, and 5th best defensive player. Personally I’ve seen enough of his offense to believe that he’s better than the AIO metrics suggest. his massive impact on winning was hard to dispute, given the team’s record when he plays vs. when he doesn’t.
$40M AAV seems high, though. Something that starts in the mid-30’s seems about right.
(I see vincoug had the same thoughts)
Hubs just sayin’ shit to get people worked up, lol.
OG’s dunk on Embiid in game 6 is all the stats I need. PAY THE MAN.
Hey I’m totally fine overpaying for OG. I’d really like to overpay for Bridges, too. You get to overpay when you have too many picks and Brunson’s making $23MM.
But holy shit guys, OG Anunoby is going to be wildly overpaid. He’s like the Supreme Hoodie of 3 & D wings.
EDIT: the link didn’t work…
it was a pic of a $695 Balenciaga flip-flop
OG is better than Bridges, when healthy.
OGs defense is miles better than Mikal’s who started trending downward years ago by the metrics.
Idk what everyone else saw but OG completely turned the team around in January.
$40M seems high to me, but $35M doesn’t strike me as crazy given his impact.
if you take a look at guys in the 35-40 a year range…if you put OG on the list…it’s not like you would do a double take…
The last piece of data I needed to see on OG was this:
Playoff record with OG: 6-2
Playoff record without OG: 1-4
He’s a massive difference maker for us. There’s plenty of evidence of it now. He’s the difference between us being very good and mediocre. It seems almost impossible to overpay for that.
The Kristaps Porzingis trade is probably a great comp for OG. They were about the same age, just as injury prone, and his impact in Boston was the same as OG’s here.
The Celtics received two firsts and Porzingis for Marcus Smart and a 2nd, then signed him to a 2 year, $60MM extension.
Look I’m not mad that we overpaid for OG Anunoby, but come on. The cost of getting and keeping this guy is insane.
EPM also says that Hartenstein is top 15 player and 2nd best defender in the NBA. Why not give him $40m+ aav too? Look, not saying I dont want OG and but handing him $40M+ shortens their contending window materially. Figure out a way to get him and keep the team together for 5+ years.
Figure out a way to keep him that doesn’t include paying him what other teams are willing to pay him?
Everyone making 35-45MM next year (I highlighted a few guys who clearly don’t belong; OG would be one of them. This guy shouldn’t be sandwiched between Luka and Edwards):
Gobert
AD
Doncic
Lavine
Trae Young
Fred Van Vleet
Halliburton
Edwards
Sabonis
Kyrie
Zion
Ja
Garland
Ingram
Murray
SGA
Porter Jr
D Mitchell
Guess OG will be how we spend our tv money.
We’re so used to being a bad team that we don’t know what the top of the win curve looks like. You can’t look at OG’s contract in a vacuum and compare his BPM to similarly paid players. I mean, you can, but I’m glad our front office doesn’t seem to be doing that. He’s very valuable TO US and is clearly worth the money. If we let him walk because somebody else gave him $40M and we were only able to do $35M well then we’re fucking idiots.
You have to pay him what he wants. We’re dead if he leaves.
Plus we can afford to overpay him because Brunson and Randle are making less than what most #1s and #2s make.
We are definitely paying through the nose, though.
JK, no one is talking about letting him walk…sometimes you just have to over pay for stuff you buy because its intrinsic value to you is higher than market value but it’s still an overpay. No chance Leon lets him walk but will Leon pay OG’s market value of whatever it takes because he underpaying Randle, JB, DDV, Hart and had money in the bank and he really needs OG.
If we let him walk because somebody else gave him $40M and we were only able to do $35M well then we’re fucking idiots.
We didn’t make the trade to let him walk. We are going to pay him what we have to. Aside from injury which is a concern, OG exceeded every single one of our expectations for his impact on the team. Funneling usage out of RJ’s hands into an emergent Brunson’s likely added shine to the polish but it was a fine as fuck polish. It’s only a bad contract (i.e. overpay) if the team is not good enough to win it or seriously compete to win it when healthy. Pay the man and let him pretend to care about being here or not. That is the mercenary you pay for. The one who fucking stomps the lights out of opponents eye’s like Grendel laying waste to a band of Danes.
Not a single GM in the NBA thinks Jaylen Brown is better than Luka or Giannis and there’s probably not one who thinks he’s even the best player on his own team and he’s getting paid 53 million dollars next season.
Could be a little weird when everyone making less to help the team and OG just sucks up all the extra money like a hoover.
I’m probably not going to spend much time fretting about what OG might get paid. I adore the player and its not my money!
This is a big nothingburger IMO.
Bottle service at the club is on OG. Problem solved.
TAke a look, y’all: IMG_4346.jpeg
Meanwhile, Luka can sign a $346M extension. That’s Ohtani money!
I’m taking OG over the guys in bold plus Trae, Sabonis, Ingram, Murray, Zion.
That’s half and there’s a couple other guys he’s not too far behind, he just plays a very different game than them.
And guys like Luka are making $40M but that’s because it’s all they can make. He should be well above that, it doesn’t mean $40M is a bad price for OG.
Meanwhile, Luka can sign a $346M extension. That’s Ohtani money!
Overpay?
Soon that will also be Soto money too.
Unless Soto figures out he’s gonna be the last thing Hal ever spends money on.
Probably a bad idea to telegraph that, Hal. Maybe save the payroll slashing talk for later?
OG is harder to value because his value on defense (individual, help as a roamer, and versatility), value as a spacer and value to this specific team’s defense and spacing is not hitting the boxscore. You have to look more at impact using on/off. He’s been very impactful and for very logical easy to understand reasons.
If he was the first solid player we landed as part of a rebuild it might be a tougher decision on whether to pay him 40 million because you’d have to worry about how to add other expensive pieces under the cap. But this team is already close to serious contention. It’s probably a deeper bench and maybe one other player away from serious contention and can pull those moves off. You just pay him whatever he wants as long as the owner is OK with it.
I’ve been highly critical of Cuban. I still think he’s a bozo and doesn’t know basketball all that well either. But he took a gamble that Dallas could get Irving to mature, be happy, and get along with Doncic when almost everyone else was afraid to touch him. It worked. Then he had a great trade deadline. Now it seems Kidd figured out how to get them to play defense. They look like they have a chance to win it all. I’m shocked by the whole thing. We all knew they’d be a lot better than last year, but not this good. The T-Wolves are far from done though. They were flat last night after than game seven with Denver. I think they’ll be tougher in game 2.
That was a John Dillinger level robbery. If we were talking about the Dallas version of KP that was injured, used incorrectly, unhappy etc… that would be one thing, but he broke out to a new top in DC and was healthier. The Celtics stole him.
Baron Davis was on Melo and Mero’s podcast and I saw a clip where he specifically mentioned getting rid of Glen Grunwald and replacing him with Mills as the main reason everything changed for the worse. Apparently Mills would go to practice and act like a coach and the players were like WTF is this compared to Grunwald who stayed in the background and looks like all the players respected him unlike Mills.
I was traveling in Indonesia when the Asian financial crisis occurred. I remember exchanging a $50 bill and getting handed garbage bags full of Rupiahs. The country traditionally has a haggle economy — the custom is to express outrage at the sticker price, no matter what it is, and then discuss and agree on a more reasonable exchange. I needed toothpaste after going to the bank that day. I went with my host to a small grocery store, still carrying my garbage bags of local money. I lay the toothpaste on the counter and was told that it would cost, like, .0001% of a US penny. My host immediately starts the haggle process, and I’m like, “really, it’s okay, I don’t mind over-paying for this.”
I don’t know why there is over-analysis and gnashing of teeth about this. The Knicks were 20-3 with OG during the regular season ( including some eye-popping wins vs the best in the league) and 30-29 without him. Including the playoffs they were 26-6.
I don’t care much what BPM. RAPTOR, The IRT, BMT, or QBXYZ has to say about him. His impact on winning was stunning. As impactful as humanly possible. And, there is virtually no way to substantively replace him should he sign elsewhere.
Really, the only thing impactful on winning he could not do was to stay in front of the water-bug Maxey, and no one else in the league could either.
They really have to pay him any price he asks or can get from somewhere else. They may have to pay him close to the max.
The elephant in the room is Philly. OG would be perfect between Embiid and Maxey. That specter alone could drive the price up to near-max.
Sam Rose is OG’s agent. We have the nepotism tractor beam locked on him.
I think the most Philly will do is try to drive up the price on OG to make life harder for us.
Donnie, my family moved from Poughkeepsie to Singapore in the summer of ’98, and the Asian financial crisis was probably the first big news story I saw on local TV.
To think you were in the region at the same time, small world
Shogun was great. But I predict the promised second and third seasons will devolve into soap opera like plot machinations. There is no sequel from Clavell, and it is what TV writers do when they have to extend a show beyond its natural length.
i don’t think there are any more seasons of Shogun…not sure where you saw that…
I am digging Fallout…Under the Bridge…not as much
Pepper, FX is working with the Clavell estate to figure out how to make additional seasons. They announced it very recently.
hmm..then agree with KFNINJ…likely no good will come from that…
I think the casting for the show was as good as it gets. Can’t make magic without stars, rising or otherwise, and they had em. Really the great separator nowadays.
this was a pretty good article/interview of sanada-san
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/shogun-finale-hiroyuki-sanada-interview-1235881195/
You simply have the Anjin get into trouble with the government and wind up following a philosophically inclined young samurai he meets on the road and getting into adventures
Outer Range (josh brolin’s hole – ha) is a great companion piece to The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch…
especially now that the latest season of The Curse of Oak Island has concluded…spoiler alert: they’re still digging…
there’s a lot of weird shit going on out there you know…and i like it…
oh yeah, sitting at level 40 now in Fallout 76, finally figured out where to best farm ballistic fiber (needed to repair some basic armor)…
inventory management is still a thing…fought some wild huge mutated bat thing that was flying in the air – that was a trip…
in case you are curious – it’s Fort McClintlock, that’s the best place to farm military ammo bag and military duct tape…
Anybody else enjoying the Pacers getting depantsed tonight?
“Anybody else enjoying the Pacers getting depantsed tonight?”
Not me.
Speaking of, they spent their budget on Fallout live action series pretty damn well. Some studio exec deserves credit for not talking too much.
Hali hurt, so it’s pretty much over.
Pacers suck.
Awwwwwe…. Sore leg for Hali. Poor baby.
Shamefully unserious perfromance from Indy
To be honest, I’d be really happy if I were a Pacers fan.
“I think the most Philly will do is try to drive up the price on OG to make life harder for us.”
Exactly. That’s what Morey does. He did it with Lin. The Knicks blinked.
The point is, that ruthless, cold-blooded asshole will absolutely drive the price up, especially considering that we are a conference rival who just eliminated his team. He will likely make a monster offer to OG, and will hope the Knicks either blink or drastically overpay for him.
In other words, hoping for any kind of a discount is wishful thinking. OG is gonna get paid.
Yeah about as happy as we would be getting swept by Boston if we had to roll out Burks at starting PG in this series.
Think Rick was playing Hali too many minutes? (sorry, I couldn’t resist)
Shogun writers have the real life history to turn to if they want, though. The actual guy Anjin is based on did some interesting stuff, like opening up trade with the Dutch and the British and founding a maritime trade dynasty. He also had some moments like not doing further business with the British because he couldn’t really connect with the British representative after so many years abroad, as well as a romance with the daughter of a relatively poor Japanese family. I think his English son also did some cool stuff if I remember right.
“Shamefully unserious perfromance from Indy”
Their best player went down with an injury and it was still a game in the 4th quarter. Boston is the prohibitive favorite, especially at home. They have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of tonight.
Check this shit out for potential Shogun material: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_seal_ships
I read Shogun during the pandemic. The 1200 pages went very fast, I would have kept reading if it had 1200 more. I’m not surprised they are developing a second season, even though I haven’t seen the show.
What price is an overpay for a guy who takes a .500 team and makes it elite (or at the very least massively better) when he plays? Serious question.
sounds like a role for david carradine or the guy on Warrior…
Who has a better chance to stymie Boston — Minny or Dallas? I say Minny because of the stifling defense but maybe it’s Dallas’ scorers…
Very interesting article from Zach Lowe about ”small” trades that make a big impact. He cites Derrick White to Boston and Josh Hart to the Knicks in particular. One thing he said is
One thing I noted was that Hart came cheaper than White. The Celtics traded a top four protected first round pick and two players for White and one of those players was later traded for four first round picks. That’s more than a single lottery protected first round pick. And White was a shaky shooter when he was traded too. It was only later he got better.
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/40197976/lowe-boston-celtics-derrick-white-small-trades-turn-good-teams-nba-champions
Kaminari, I like it. History would be a lot better than soap opera as a Shogun continuation.
How does the new Shogun series compare to the original with Richard Chamberlain?
Much better, and the original was good!
Yooooo. Furiosa!