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Knicks Morning News (2024.04.05)


  • Knicks’ Julius Randle to have season-ending shoulder surgery – ESPN
    [ESPN] – Thu, 04 Apr 2024 14:46:00 GMT
    1. Knicks’ Julius Randle to have season-ending shoulder surgery
    2. Knicks’ Julius Randle to have season-ending surgery on right shoulder
    3. The Knicks are in the middle of NBA playoff seeding. Can Julius Randle and OG Anunoby return in time for an extra push?
    4. Knicks’ inconsistent Julius Randle info leads to more questions than answers
    5. Knicks Notes: Randle, Ailing Roster, Transactions, Anunoby


  • Larry David takes in Knicks game with Susie Essman as ‘Curb’ series finale approaches – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Fri, 05 Apr 2024 02:15:00 GMT

    Larry David takes in Knicks game with Susie Essman as ‘Curb’ series finale approaches


  • Grizzlies’ Morant, Knicks’ Burks Seek Out New Agents – hoopsrumors.com
    [hoopsrumors.com] – Thu, 04 Apr 2024 15:30:00 GMT

    Grizzlies’ Morant, Knicks’ Burks Seek Out New Agents


  • Knicks snap losing skid with big win over Kings hours after devastating Julius Randle injury news – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Fri, 05 Apr 2024 02:27:00 GMT
    1. Knicks snap losing skid with big win over Kings hours after devastating Julius Randle injury news
    2. Knicks 120-109 Kings (Apr 4, 2024) Game Recap
    3. Sacramento Kings vs. New York Knicks Prediction, Preview, and Odds – 4-4-2024
    4. Where Kings stand in West playoff picture after road loss to Knicks
    5. Jalen Brunson, Josh Hart combine for 66 points as Knicks secure comeback win over Kings


  • NBA Rumors: Knicks’ Jalen Brunson ‘Open’ to Contract Extension Talks After Season – Bleacher Report
    [Bleacher Report] – Fri, 05 Apr 2024 02:37:30 GMT

    NBA Rumors: Knicks’ Jalen Brunson ‘Open’ to Contract Extension Talks After Season


  • OG Anunoby cleared for contact in positive Knicks injury sign – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Fri, 05 Apr 2024 04:04:00 GMT
    1. OG Anunoby cleared for contact in positive Knicks injury sign
    2. Tom Thibodeau: Knicks ‘Cautiously Optimistic’ on OG Anunoby Return from Elbow Injury
    3. Atlantic Notes: Lowry, Embiid, Anunoby, Watford
    4. Knicks’ OG Anunoby dealing with tennis elbow in injury twist
    5. Some updates on OG Anunoby’s elbow injury


  • Knicks guard makes agency switch ahead of looming 2024 free agency – Daily Knicks
    [Daily Knicks] – Thu, 04 Apr 2024 23:05:42 GMT

    Knicks guard makes agency switch ahead of looming 2024 free agency


  • Knicks were right to trade RJ Barrett, Quentin Grimes – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Thu, 04 Apr 2024 13:20:00 GMT

    Knicks were right to trade RJ Barrett, Quentin Grimes


  • New York Knicks vs. Chicago Bulls Prediction, Preview, and Odds – 4-5-2024 – Winners and Whiners
    [Winners and Whiners] – Thu, 04 Apr 2024 19:54:36 GMT
    1. New York Knicks vs. Chicago Bulls Prediction, Preview, and Odds – 4-5-2024
    2. New York Knicks vs Chicago Bulls Prediction, Bet Builder Tips & Odds
    3. Are the Knicks favored vs. the Bulls on April 5? Game odds, spread, over/under
    4. Bulls show respect, praise for Jalen Brunson, Tom Thibodeau
    5. DeRozan, Bulls square off against the Knicks


  • Dallas Mavs Clinch Top 10 Seed in West; New York Knicks Defeat Sacramento Kings – Sports Illustrated
    [Sports Illustrated] – Fri, 05 Apr 2024 02:39:00 GMT

    Dallas Mavs Clinch Top 10 Seed in West; New York Knicks Defeat Sacramento Kings


  • Insider Reveals Knicks Major Offseason Move – Heavy.com
    [Heavy.com] – Thu, 04 Apr 2024 16:19:46 GMT

    Insider Reveals Knicks Major Offseason Move


  • Kings, after collapse at New York, aim to rebound vs. Celts – CBS Sports
    [CBS Sports] – Fri, 05 Apr 2024 08:19:00 GMT

    Kings, after collapse at New York, aim to rebound vs. Celts

  • 150 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.04.05)”

    New York vs Sacramento W 120-109 Record 45-31

    After the depressing news about Julius we really need some positive updates about OG and an heartwarming victory erasing a 21-points deficit and a shocking 1st quarter.

    They’re not perfect, sometimes they’re ugly and at times maddening, but it’s impossible not to love this team (well, except Alec Burks of course…).

    Alas, no time to rest on our laurels, because while absolutely needing another win (we’re with Orlando, who owns the tiebreaker, for the 4th spot and have nice a little lead on the Pacers) we travel to Chicago for a tricky back-to-back against the very well rested, unpredictable and play-in bounded Bulls.

    Thoughts:

    – The guys were visibly demoralised for the Randle news at the start of the game.
    That’s why I love Thibs’ mic’d timeout where he told the guys to play defense because the offense would come.
    Maybe it’s just random, but the comeback began there, under a hailstorm of Kings’ threes.

    – As Hubie pointed out it took a while, but maybe we’ve finally found some ancient sorcery books about the dark art of “attacking the double team”.
    JB got rid of the ball much quicker then usual, the Hart Foundation acted as conduit and all the players moved with the intention of posing a threat.
    Very well done and very very refreshing for my old basketball eyes…

    – Great game for the Nova Boys. JB was an efficient killer (35 on 12-20 shooting, 11 ast, 3 stl), “Hustlebunny on steroid” was magnificent (31 with 14-19 2FG, 9 reb, 8 ast, 2 stl and countless coast to coasts) and DDV was lava in the 3rd (12 points with 3-3 3FG in the quarter, 21 with 5-9 3FG overall).

    – Can we say that right now, with OG out and Julius done for the season, I-Hart is the second most important Knicks (7, 7 boards, 9 assists, 2 steals, above average defense on Dontas)? The game is totally different with him on the floor.
    And considering how much I’ve hyped and defended him over the last couple of years he owe me some stellar play 😉

    – At the end of the day, despite having a great clutch player (Fox) and another All-NBA deserving star (Sabonis, I know he’s not a rim protector, but his passing and post moves are elite) the Kings always looks a little soft. Is it the coach? Probably.
    Despite some good ATOs I’ll never switch Brown for Thibs.

    (Fake) Plays Of The Game:

    3rd 3:52 Trey Lyles bad pass (Josh Hart steals) SAC 79 NY 76
    3rd 3:47 Miles McBride misses 22-foot three point shot
    3rd 3:45 Sasha Vezenkov defensive rebound
    3rd 3:37 De’Aaron Fox makes driving layup SAC 81 NY 76
    3rd 3:13 Jalen Brunson misses 10-foot step back jumpshot
    3rd 3:11 Domantas Sabonis defensive rebound
    3rd 3:05 Trey Lyles makes 25-foot three point jumper (Davion Mitchell assists) SAC 84 NY 76
    3rd 2:56 Knicks Full timeout

    After starting the 3rd down by 8, Keegan Murray put the Knicks back on the brink of collapse after a couple of minutes (-14) but as usual the guys don’t quit and started chewing at the Kings lead, inching closer and closer as the defense tightened.
    Hart cut the lead to 3 and on the next play stole the ball and on the break passed it to an open McBride in the right corner.
    Deuce clunked the tying shot, the Kings went on a 5-0 mini-run, restoring an 8-points lead and making me think “again, we spent too many energies climbing back of the hole and we’re too gassed to take control”.
    But they weren’t gassed, my fears were for naught and I’m really happy!
    After Thibs’ timely timeout they went on a 11-0 run and took their first lead since the 1st quarter, before Fox hit a three to close the quarter tied at 87.
    But…

    (Real) Plays Of The Game:

    4th 9:07 Isaiah Hartenstein makes 8-foot driving floating jump shot (Jalen Brunson assists) SAC 95 NY 94
    4th 8:20 Jalen Brunson makes 7-foot driving floating jump shot (Isaiah Hartenstein assists) SAC 95 NY 96
    4th 8:20 Keon Ellis shooting foul
    4th 8:20 Jalen Brunson makes free throw 1 of 1 SAC 95 NY 97
    4th 7:53 Josh Hart makes driving layup (Jalen Brunson assists) SAC 95 NY 99
    4th 7:53 Domantas Sabonis shooting foul 95 99
    4th 7:53 Kings Full timeout SAC 95 NY 99
    4th 4th 7:53 Josh Hart makes free throw 1 of 1 SAC 95 NY 100
    4th 7:00 Josh Hart makes 7-foot two point shot (Jalen Brunson assists) SAC 95 NY 102
    4th 6:28 Jalen Brunson makes 28-foot three pointer SAC 95 NY 105 (BEDLAM at MSG)

    A 13-0 run in 2:39, fueled by consecutive and-1s by JB and Josh and a storming defense.
    The Kings just rolled over and never threatened again.

    Stats Of The Game:

    34-44 (77.2%) Knicks assisted baskets.
    Sharing is always caring (and much more fun to watch!).

    60-40 Knicks lead in PIP.
    The Kings lack rim protection, we smartly took advantage.

    7-10 (70%) Kings 3FG% in the 1st quarter
    11-32 (34.3%) Kings 3FG% the rest of the game
    We pump the defense up a couple of ticks and they cooled off missing some open shots.

    Brunson A+
    Took his spots, took his time, get rid of the ball with a purpose and went iso “only when needed”. Great game.

    Hart A+
    Sprained wrist? No problem, I’ll only take layups and midrangers.
    His trademark coast to coast is one of the best moves of this century in pumping the MSG crowd to vulcanic pressure.

    Hartenstein A
    I love the guy, full stop.
    And I’m sure we’ll re-sign him.

    DiVincenzo A-
    He made mistakes and dumb things here and there but he’s more than just a long range shooter and like all the Wright’s disciples he plays an high BB-IQ game, sometimes with low BB-IQ focus.

    Deuce C+
    A bad shooting night can happen. Fox took him to school especially in the first half but he never quit and had his moments in a nice 3rd.
    A so-so game doesn’t change the fact that we’ve found (and re-sign to a great contract) a good rotation player.

    Bogdanovic B
    12 of our bench 14 points bear his signature (5-7 FG).
    He had moments where he had to drive an offense ballasted by the dreadful Precious-Mitch combo and Deuce’s off shooting night and he did it well enough.
    He’ll never be more than a lousy defender but I still think he would’ve been a great addition to a OG-Jules roster and he could be useful even now if he’s able to adapt at the circumstances…

    Robinson C
    We know he needs time to round into form and while he’s still an imposing presence under the offensive glass (5 Oreb) his springs aren’t still there, but he’s slowly progressing.
    Honestly his inability to improve his FT shooting makes me angry, to me it’s inexcusable.

    Achiuwa C-
    Energy and generosity but my feelings about him being “out of his league” in this kind of games are growing.

    Burks D
    I’ve just read the half a milion of people left New York in the last 4 years to go somewhere else.
    Why in Hell Alec Bricks must be the only one of them who did come back?
    He looks more and more like a 45-years old dude playing with his friends at the gym and I can’t fathom why the fuck he’s playing instead of the younger and more motivated Shake (on paper Burks can shoot and Shake can’t, in reality both can’t but at least one of them doesn’t even try…).

    Thibs A
    He coached a great game with steady hand and his timeouts were perfect.
    He didn’t get the “+” ’cause the Burks/Shake choice I wrote above.

    I’ve just read the half a milion of people left New York in the last 4 years to go somewhere else.
    Why in Hell Alec Bricks must be the only one of them who did come back?

    🤣

    Bogey made some big shots in the second quarter when it looked like the Kings were going to completely blow our doors off. Not as dramatic as some of the shots we made in the 4th quarter comeback, but important nonetheless just to stabilize things.

    His jumper looks pure again.

    I will always be more optimistic after a good win but I gotta say that despite the Randle news I do think we still have a shot to make some noise in the playoffs and get to the conference finals.

    It all depends on OG coming back and being effective and Mitch being able to round into shape.

    But if those things happen our team is just as good as last year’s team and maybe a bit better.

    Randle was hurt last year and not one hundred percent, so he didn’t really help us in the playoffs. And our 6th man IQ had a horrible playoffs. Despite that we still won a series and were a minute away from game 7 against the heat in the second round.

    DDV is a big upgrade for us at the starting SG spot over grimes. McBride could have a better playoffs than IQ.

    Of course I’m wish casting and all of this depends on OG and to some degree Mitch plus the role players stepping up. But I don’t think we should give up on this season yet.

    very cool the NBA scheduled us playing a road back to back against a team that hasn’t played since April 1.

    It all depends on OG coming back and being effective and Mitch being able to round into shape.

    But if those things happen our team is just as good as last year’s team and maybe a bit better.

    I agree with your conclusion.

    On the OG if, I think we’re all guessing blind.

    On the Mitch if, he’ll have had nearly 4 weeks by the time the playoffs start so I feel good about him.

    One more if: if the Bojaissance continues it’s a game changer.

    This still amuses me greatly:

    Josh Hart, 43 mins, +22
    Deuce McBride, 43 mins, -4

    Two guys both play 90% of the minutes and end up with a 26 point difference in +/- !

    looks like most of it is deuce being on the bench when the knicks went on a 16-2 run in the middle of the second quarter

    So in terms of playoff positioning, we have 6 games remaining, what’s the magic number situation with our competition? [(—) owns the tiebreaker]
    Bucks (MIL): 9
    Magic (ORL): 7
    Cavs (NYK): 6
    Pacers (IND): 4
    Heat (NYK): 3
    Sixers(NYK): 2

    Does this seem accurate?

    Magic numbers without regard to tiebreakers, which I don’t know:
    Bucks: 9
    Cavs: 7 (same number of losses as Magic)
    Magic: 7
    Pacers: 4
    Heat: 4 (same number of losses as Pacers)
    Sixers: 3 (we’ve got 45 wins and they’ve got 35 losses)

    Knicks have the tiebreaker vs Cleveland, Miami and Philly. In case of 3 team tiebreakers right now Knicks have best conference record amongst all the teams seeded 3-8.

    MSG was rocking so much last night that I felt Brooklyn shake for several seconds just now.

    MSG was rocking so much last night that I felt Brooklyn shake for several seconds just now.

    All the way out in CT too

    4.8 earthquake in NJ, biggest we’ve gotten here in 250 years. My whole house shook. I’ve asked friends in the northeast, and so far have reports as far west as Allentown, PA and as far north as Boston and New Hampshire. It’s crazy.

    I hadn’t considered 3-way ties, thx BBA!

    Don’t think too hard about it because our prognosis is not great in case of a 3 way tie. The first tiebreak rule in a 3-way is a division winner.

    My friends in DC say they didn’t feel anything but I have a friend up in Montpelier who says her house shook a little.

    Less than ten mikes from my house in NJ but I’m not there, so I didn’t feel it. My neighbors say they are all ok so I hope the house is too.

    my friends who live around there say everything is fine, so aside from maybe something falling off a shelf your house should be good

    Speaking of Deuce, a critical moment came when he picked up his 4th foul with 7:57 left in the 3rd, seemed to be getting abused by Fox, and yet Thibs left him in. He was asked about the decision in his postgame presser, and said he didn’t want to look back and regret that he took him out.

    And speaking of Thibs, this is a game that sort of epitomized his continual refrain of “the game will tell you what to do.” Folks like to blame him for the offense being primitive and unimaginative, but the second half run was beautifully executed, and the two key figures were iHart and JHart. Obviously it would not have worked as well if the Kings had better rim protection, but it still suggests that the efficacy of Thibs’ offensive schemes are only limited by the b-ball IQ of the players running them.

    In that sense, Randle is a mixed bag, and Thibs kind of encourages his low-IQ tendencies. And Mitch just doesn’t have the ability to see the floor and execute the passes that iHart does. So maybe, just maybe, the team might play better without Randle gumming up the potential of what we saw last night, and with Mitch is a more limited role. It is certainly critical for a player like Bojan to play in an offense where the ball moves like it did last night.

    The floor and walls of my midtown office shook for what felt like a solid 6 seconds.

    I know folks are down on Burks, but imo Shake is not the answer. I’d rather hope that Burks snaps out of this funk and plays his way back to being a useful rotation player. I have zero short-term hope for Shake being anything other than a quintessential replacement-level player.

    In a deposition downtown, water bottles shook, I didn’t really notice.

    I’d rather hope that Burks snaps out of this funk

    Since one of today’s topics was a single game +/-….I’ll posit this:

    What funk? +9 in 9 minutes in an 11 point win!

    I’m really proud of the way the Knicks continue to battle night in and night out. I thought that after a few games teams would notice that we are starting 4 guards, and they would start pounding them into submission, but the lineup seems to be working. Hats off to Thibs!

    I wish single game plus minus would disappear from the boxscore.

    I’m glad all you guys are ok. We wanted to shake the NBA standings, but not literally (haha, Dougie).

    Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn:
    USC Trojans freshman guard Bronny James will enter the 2024 NBA Draft while maintaining his college eligibility and will also enter the transfer portal, he said on Instagram Friday.

    Should we take Bronny? Then Lebron signs for the vet minimum! 😀

    Should we take Bronny?

    Can we get him this year to replace Burks?

    Good Idea Cyber, but I’m hoping the Lakers draft him in the second round.
    We once sign Chris Smith. Giannis’ older brother is on the Bucks. I don’t see anything wrong with it.

    Bronny went through a lot this year and that USC team was a mess but he’s nowhere near being an NBA player

    On another note, the economy just added 303,000 jobs and unemployment fell to 3.8%

    CNN front page: Blockbuster Jobs Report Surpasses All Expectations!

    FoxNews front page: no mention whatsoever, but if you scrolled down there were several articles bashing Biden, including one entitled “Former White House chief of staff makes stunning admission on Biden’s economy!”

    Bronny is not an NBA player, but neither are Chris Smith or Thanasis Antetokounmpo. It would just be a fun human interest story.

    Hang on Z-man, are you telling me that Fox News has some sort of agenda?

    I know folks are down on Burks, but imo Shake is not the answer.

    Can’t Hart just give Burks the other half of that viagra?

    Bronny was highly ranked in HS, I’m not sure he fits the same category as Thanasis and Chris Smith.

    Here’s Wasserman writing about Bronny in February.

    If he does stay in the draft, it might be worth taking a flyer on him if his shot looks fixed. He could make it as a Deuce-type player on his own merit.

    He’s a project without the innate upside you normally look for, but LeBron demanding a trade here is an upside I can get behind in the 2nd round.

    If Bronny struggles next year, does any team draft him without a LeBron promise? That’s the reason he might stay in the draft.

    In the nepoballers universe, I don’t know if Bronny is in the same category as Thanasis and Chris Smith but he’s definitely less of a player than Ben Hansbrough

    “Hang on Z-man, are you telling me that Fox News has some sort of agenda?”

    Its not even that. I’ve seen them report such things in the typical “Great economic news, BUT….(choose your most dismissive, distressing caveat). I would expect the “but” in this case would be something about inflation, or most Americans still believe the economy sucks, or deflection to an unrelated issue.

    In scrolling down, I found one opinion piece essentially stated that all the new jobs of the Biden administration are going to migrants.

    It’s one thing to have an agenda. It’s another thing to selectively ignoring significant monthly economic reports. That shouldn’t happen on either side of the major news outlets.

    If Bronny wasn’t LeBron’s son, would we even be talking about him?

    That said, if/when he enters the draft, it will be interesting to see whether someone drafts him just to extract something out of the Lakers. I would guess that there is a covert agreement to get Bronny on the Laker roster as soon as he commits.

    I know I shouldn’t indulge, however- I too am guilty of checking in on fox news coverage…

    since that ginormous voting machine settlement they have begun slightly changing their on-air persona…

    they’re still mostly just mouthpieces for the wealthy anti-regulation folks (so amazing how they have the lower and middle class folks repeating their “take and keep it all” bullshit rich folk rhetoric)…

    I know it ain’t all the billionaires in our country that are driven towards greed…unfortunately just enough of them to make it difficult on most of the rest of us, in particular our lady folks who are still fighting their way out of the kitchen and maternity ward…

    in case you can’t tell – I’m really big on the whole class struggle thing 🙃

    (so amazing how they have the lower and middle class folks repeating their “take and keep it all” bullshit rich folk rhetoric)…

    That’s what always amazes/distresses me

    Curious to hear people’s thoughts: losing Julius feels like the end of any small hope of getting to the Finals this year. But question: do we think we could have beaten Boston WITH Julius? What’s the ultimate difference, assuming OG is healthy? Losing to Boston? Losing to Milwaukee before we get to Boston? Losing in the first round to the Cavs/Magic?

    I wish there were public service announcements encouraging all citizens to peruse multiple news outlets across, let’s say, the standard deviation from the center of the political spectrum…or even just Fox and MSNBC…just to get out of their own echo chambers. Most of the people I know have little tolerance for the “opposing’ side. For example, my wife won’t tolerate even one second of Fox News, not even to hate-watch.

    I sadly love hate-watching and am usually full to the brim with spite…I know, I have a tiny tiny soul…

    turns out the key to the game was buying up local judicial systems and just letting that grow…

    the next/first billion i get, I’m buying a judge just because they’re for sale…yeah, collecting cars, buildings and boats is so last century…

    If Bronny wasn’t LeBron’s son, would we even be talking about him?

    Trevor Keels was ranked right around where Bronny was in HS, had an underwhelming year, and we drafted him 42nd. Keels had a much better year than Bronny did, but didn’t lose his entire summer due to heart surgery.

    So, idk, maybe?

    I was hoping we could get to the ECF, and then we’d make it very hard for Boston to win it. With some chances that we could make it to the Finals, on a “good day”. Without Randle, but with OG, i think maybe we can make it to the 2nd round, but to go beyond that i’d be very much suprised… and very happy! 😉

    “Curious to hear people’s thoughts: losing Julius feels like the end of any small hope of getting to the Finals this year. But question: do we think we could have beaten Boston WITH Julius? What’s the ultimate difference, assuming OG is healthy? Losing to Boston? Losing to Milwaukee before we get to Boston? Losing in the first round to the Cavs/Magic?”

    Even with Julius, we’d be heavy underdogs vs. the Celts. We were a well-oiled machine when Randle went down, but also were in a soft section of the schedule. I would have liked that series, though, and would have given us a puncher’s chance. Still, the question of whether of how much we have lost with Julius going down is significant. It comes down to which Julius would have showed up.

    Looking at it differently, you could ask it this way: does replacing healthy Mitch, healthy Julius, and RJ in the starting lineup with healthy iHart, healthy OG, and Josh Hart make us match up better with the Celtics starting 5? I think you can make the argument that if Julius was anything less than peak all-NBA Julius, then yes, it is a net gain. And the bench of Mitch/Deuce/Bojan/Precious/Burks is at least comparable on paper to Horford/Prichard/Hauser/Tillman/Kornet. So in that sense, I would still give us a puncher’s chance based on a higher floor without bad Julius, and possibly a higher team b-ball IQ, better shooting, and better defense.

    I think we match up well vs. CLE, ORL, and IND. Not so sure about PHI w/ Embiid, MIA or MIL. We just don’t have enough data.

    “Trevor Keels was ranked right around where Bronny was in HS, had an underwhelming year, and we drafted him 42nd. Keels had a much better year than Bronny did, but didn’t lose his entire summer due to heart surgery.

    So, idk, maybe?”

    I never heard of Trevor Keels before we drafted him, did you?

    I’d rather play the Heat without Randle, pretty much everything else depends on Brunson’s ability to run a high-level offense for 48 consecutive minutes.

    In scrolling down, I found one opinion piece essentially stated that all the new jobs of the Biden administration are going to migrants.

    That most likely comes from this guy’s study of data from the BLS.

    https://twitter.com/RealEJAntoni/status/1776235611961114656

    There are similar reports saying the job creation is virtually all part time jobs, which often means people that have lost full time jobs are going to part time jobs or people with full time jobs can’t afford the increasing cost of living and are getting second jobs.

    Truth be told, these jobs reports are ALWAYS wrong. They get adjusted to “less wrong” in the following months. There is just as much garbage coming out of the government as there is from all media sources that try to spin the results.

    I never heard of Trevor Keels before we drafted him, did you?

    I do research before the draft starts and Keels was a name that came up. I liked him as a 2nd round flyer.

    I doubt we’d be talking about Bronny but it’s not impossible. Really depends on how much weight people place on his heart issue affecting his play.

    I’m guessing he’ll be crap in the NBA, so I think it’s a question of how much his lineage affected his HS scouting reports

    I think one reason why the Knicks might be more competitive than we think in the playoffs is that I-Hart’s usage may jump to 35ish min/game. The Brunson/I-Hart pairing has been so productive that this will mask a lot of the bench issues they’ve had.

    “I do research before the draft starts and Keels was a name that came up. I liked him as a 2nd round flyer.”

    I suppose he might come up, but in the context that there are names that pop up in draft speculation about late 2nd rounders, but just as mentions, not really topics of discussion. I mean we mentioned guys we might have drafted with the 58th pick we used to draft Sims.

    I would still give us a puncher’s chance (v. Celts) based on a higher floor without bad Julius

    Looking forward, could a new passing “vibe” on our team mean that Bad Julius will cease to exist? No more dervish in the paint?

    January’s games hinted at this possibility. And by now we’ve had months where passing and cutting became necessary even (gasp) intentional. What Hath God Wrought?

    2024-25 is even more intriguing as a result. Look out.

    I suppose he might come up, but in the context that there are names that pop up in draft speculation about late 2nd rounders, but just as mentions, not really topics of discussion. I mean we mentioned guys we might have drafted with the 58th pick we used to draft Sims.

    Yeah, that’s probably the context we’d talk about him in, but his dad being LeBron is a relevant factor as long as he’s in the NBA putting up the numbers he can still put up.

    Truth be told, these jobs reports are ALWAYS wrong. They get adjusted to “less wrong” in the following months. There is just as much garbage coming out of the government as there is from all media sources that try to spin the results.

    This the formula for economic information.

    If the source is:

    Government: Either purposely wrong/spun for political reasons (lies) or incompetently collected.

    Wall St: mostly competently collected, but spun to suit the goals and portfolio positions of the companies

    Media: Incompetently interpreted from the corrupt incompetents in #1 and #2 with added spin to achieve political goals (the worst source)

    Corporate Earnings and private economists and investors: Best source, but good luck identifying the competent truth tellers

    I wish there were public service announcements encouraging all citizens to peruse multiple news outlets across, let’s say, the standard deviation from the center of the political spectrum…or even just Fox and MSNBC…just to get out of their own echo chambers. Most of the people I know have little tolerance for the “opposing’ side. For example, my wife won’t tolerate even one second of Fox News, not even to hate-watch.

    One side would just disregard such an announcement as another psyop by the Deep State.

    This sounds like a false equivalency to me — there is no counterpart on the otherside to Fox News, OAN, and the other networks that make up the right-wing griftosphere, and there are significant structural reasons why there can’t be.

    Government: incompetently collected.

    Wall St: mostly competently collected

    This bears no resemblance to real life, but sure, public service sucks and the private sector is competent. Jesus.

    Guys, my Bronny comment was a joke! 😛

    This is far more important…

    @sny_knicks: OG Anunoby has been upgraded to questionable tonight for the Knicks against the Bulls

    scrolling this thread and saw z-man’s fox news post and privately wagered whether the argument would veer directly into bls using hedonic quality adjustment to suppress bleach pricing or would wind its way there via a brief diversion through frank ntilikina and idk if i won but the rest of you most definitely lost

    This bears no resemblance to real life, but sure, public service sucks and the private sector is competent. Jesus.

    Yeah, “the private sector” is so competent that it must get bailed out every decade or so by “the (incompetent) public sector.” Nice work if you can get it 😉

    But question: do we think we could have beaten Boston WITH Julius?

    Absolutely.

    If we had not lost OG & Randle we’d have locked up the 2 seed.

    Boston probably would have beaten us, but I guess it would be a 7 gamer, and we’d have been like +220 in a series against them.

    Even if OG can only play 10 minutes tonight, that’s 10 minutes to rest our exhausted troops on a B2B. Hopefully “questionable” means “actually healthy but we’re nervous”.

    I really want to see how we do with:

    JB/Deuce/DDV/OG/iHart

    JB/DDV/Hart/OG/iHart

    JB/DDV/OG/Bojan/iHart

    If he’s back for real it unlocks a lot of potentially very strong units for us.

    Save OG’s 10 minutes to guard DeRozan in the last 10 minutes of the game.

    This bears no resemblance to real life, but sure, public service sucks and the private sector is competent. Jesus.

    I said about Wall St economic data, “mostly competently collected, but spun to suit the goals and portfolio positions of the companies”

    That means Wall St mostly knows what’s really going on under the hood, but they aren’t telling you and me in a timely fashion. They are busy advancing their own agenda – which is making money at the expense of anyone and everyone else over the short term and the taxpayer via bailouts and the Fed via money printing over the longer term.

    They aren’t getting bailed out because they are incompetent. They are getting bailed out because they can get away with being as irresponsible as they want in the short term knowing full well they WILL get bailed out by our corrupt government and Fed. Get it?

    That’s about as harsh a criticism as you can make about anyone. I’m calling them mostly competent scumbags.

    The Government is too laughably incompetent and politically motivated on every level to even discuss what they are telling us.

    there is no counterpart on the otherside to Fox News, OAN, and the other networks that make up the right-wing griftosphere, and there are significant structural reasons why there can’t be.

    Been to a college campus lately?

    They aren’t getting bailed out because they are incompetent. They are getting bailed out because they can get away with being as irresponsible as they want in the short term knowing full well they WILL get bailed out by our corrupt government and Fed. Get it?

    I’d argue “they” are both incompetent and irresponsible, but … no need to do so here.

    Either way, nice work if you can get it.

    No intent to offend 😉

    PS — I did understand what you meant about the data. I just dislike the reflex assumption (some have) that private is “smarter” than public. I do not find this to be true.

    Been to a college campus lately?

    Yes, and I don’t recall seeing any TV news channels there blasting shameless propaganda out to tens of millions of viewers. Are there ones I don’t know about?

    Bob’s been on such good behavior, too, I can’t believe you guys are doing this to him. His butt’s clenched tighter than Thibs when he wants to put Jalen Brunson back in the game but medical told him he can’t.

    If OG plays, I hope he’s on a strict minutes limit because I don’t trust Thibs to do the right thing on his own if the game is close.

    “One side would just disregard such an announcement as another psyop by the Deep State.

    This sounds like a false equivalency to me — there is no counterpart on the otherside to Fox News, OAN, and the other networks that make up the right-wing griftosphere, and there are significant structural reasons why there can’t be.”

    I’m with you, but still hope that we can evolve into a less echo-chamber-ish divide. Doesn’t seem very likely at the moment, I guess.

    Okay can we start talking about our stupid front office incinerating draft picks again?

    On another note, the economy just added 303,000 jobs and unemployment fell to 3.8%

    Like most things single statistics don’t tell the story, complex issues are generally more nuanced. Unemployment is a flawed metric because it only accounts for the employed and those actively looking for work.

    The labor participation rate is a far better metric because it includes able bodied citizens (excludes incarcerated in other ways institutionalized) who have dropped out of the labor force under 65 years old. That is within two tenths of one percent (62.7%) of a 40 year low (excluding the COVID year where people were forcibly unemployed.)

    Then there is the amount of these new jobs that are swallowed up by people illegally in the country. This NY Post piece estimates that as 6 in 10 of all new jobs. https://nypost.com/2024/02/13/opinion/job-gains-are-going-to-immigrants-and-keeping-young-us-born-men-out-of-the-workforce/

    People understand their lived experience. My life is quite good, Many on both coasts whether they are working in finance, a unionized worker like a teacher or a transport worker, find life to be pretty good.

    However, the kid that grew up in Bethlehem, Pa as the son of a steel worker or in suburban Detroit as the son of an auto worker find their hopes dashed as their potential jobs have been shipped overseas by our corporate betters. These folks lived experience is that life sucks. And their POV is perfectly legitimate. They resent the millions of unskilled workers flowing unimpeded across our southern border as competition for the crappy jobs that are left.

    It is often helpful to stand for a minute in other folk’s shoes before declaring them morons. Personally, I like to read news aggregators to get information that try to give a view from both sides of the political spectrum.

    I’d argue “they” are both incompetent and irresponsible, but … no need to do so here.

    Either way, nice work if you can get it.

    No intent to offend 😉

    No problem at all.

    I used to work on Wall St for Citibank and then Salomon/Smith Barney via Citigroup. I’m hoping God doesn’t hold it against me given I was only in data processing. 😉

    My significant other managed money via a hedge fund.

    I met some brilliant people on Wall St that I like and respect, especially through her, but there are some real mega slimeballs too. I have a deep personal distaste of Wall St. in a general way.

    Horseplayers are less slimy. At least when they behave badly it’s because they are broke.

    Okay can we start talking about our stupid front office incinerating draft picks again?

    🤣🤣🤣

    Strat, I enjoy your many of your posts, but find your rants about media, government, and corporate world to be utterly jaded broad-brushing, to the point of being ridiculous and ignorable, even though there might be dashes of truth sprinkled in. Frankly, it sounds a lot like the garbage spewed by the most revolting Fox News prime-time hosts. But you keep on keeping on! At least you’ve been pretty on point about the hybrid method of team-building!

    It is often helpful to stand for a minute in other folk’s shoes before declaring them morons. Personally, I like to read news aggregators to get information that try to give a view from both sides of the political spectrum.

    Do I need to stand in their shoes to declare them morons if the person they slavishly support has used his considerable political influence to torpedo a bipartisan bill designed to address the very immigration issue that has been so harmful to their job prospects, purely for his own political benefit?

    How about if said person and their party’s actual policy agenda has only been to give aid & comfort to those corporate betters who visibly benefit from unchecked immigration and the resulting wage suppression?

    Asking for a friend.

    We’re in the age of the curated news feed. Most people get news and information streamlined to them that feeds their confirmation bias and tells them what they want to hear. If it’s not “most people” it’s at least “a lot of people and rapidly increasing.”

    The “yelling at each other on social media” phase seems to be coming to a close and is being replaced with the “communicate only with like-minded friends in closed Discord chats” phase. Which somehow seems to be even worse.

    Then there is the amount of these new jobs that are swallowed up by people illegally in the country. This NY Post piece estimates that as 6 in 10 of all new jobs. https://nypost.com/2024/02/13/opinion/job-gains-are-going-to-immigrants-and-keeping-young-us-born-men-out-of-the-workforce/

    This article was written by someone from The Center for Immigration Studies.

    “The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) is an American anti-immigration think tank. It favors far lower immigration numbers and produces analyses to further those views. The CIS was founded by historian Otis L. Graham and eugenicist and white nationalist John Tanton in 1985 as a spin-off of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). It is one of a number of anti-immigration organizations founded by Tanton, along with FAIR and NumbersUSA.

    Reports published by CIS have been disputed by scholars on immigration, fact-checkers and news outlets, and immigration-research organizations. The organization had significant influence within the Trump administration, which cited the group’s work to defend its immigration policies. The Southern Poverty Law Center designated CIS as a hate group with ties to the American nativist movement. The CIS sued the SPLC over the designation, but the lawsuit was dismissed.”

    I’m wondering how many of the readers of this stuff bother to fact-check it, or to read contrasting opinions. Nah, not really wondering, since it is clearly click-bait for the echo chamber.

    Howard Beck was on the Bill Simmons podcast today and opined that the Knicks and Nets are more amenable to a trade than people seem to think. “Both front offices are pragmatic,” was his assertion.

    Teams like the Rockets and Pelicans have more to offer but Bridges only has two years left on his contract and could easily scare teams off if he wanted to.

    Everyone on the cast preferred Bridges to Mitchell. There’s concern that Brunson and Mitchell is 1 + 1 = 1.5. And also that Mitchell may be less interested now that it’s clearly Brunson’s team.

    Simmons thinks Booker is a dark horse for us. A couple of those West teams are going to be really disappointed this April when they lose in the first round.

    Simmons thinks Booker is a dark horse for us. A couple of those West teams are going to be really disappointed this April when they lose in the first round.

    If Booker improves a little he might be able to match the BPM that DiVincenzo has put up this season at 1/3 his cost. 😛

    “I met some brilliant people on Wall St that I like and respect, especially through her, but there are some real mega slimeballs too.”

    There are slimeballs in all walks of life, in all professions, and at all income levels. Some just have more power to be slimy in a way that is impactful to society than others. You should get a load of some of the folks who call themselves public school teachers.

    We’re in the age of the curated news feed. Most people get news and information streamlined to them that feeds their confirmation bias and tells them what they want to hear. If it’s not “most people” it’s at least “a lot of people and rapidly increasing.”

    I agree this is very concerning, because people will be even more entrenched in their views without discussing it with people that have different views.

    If Booker improves a little he might be able to match the BPM that DiVincenzo has put up this season at 1/3 his cost.

    BPM gives DDV an awful lot of credit for his steals and for that reason I believe he’s overrated by that metric. EPM, for what it’s worth, rates Booker as an elite player, the #12 player in the league and in the 97th percentile. Donte is in the 85th percentile, still good, but not really all that close to Booker.

    When you factor in assisted baskets, it’s clear that Booker is easily a superior offensive player to DDV. He creates WAY more offense for himself on far higher usage and still manages better efficiency then DDV. DDV is a nice player at his salary but he’s not in Booker’s class.

    DDV
    .595 TS%
    21.8 USG%
    .608 assisted 2P
    .919 assisted 3P
    3.6 BPM
    1.8 EPM

    Booker
    .613 TS%
    30.3 USG%
    .370 assisted 2P
    .617 assisted 3P
    3.3 BPM
    5.0 EPM

    okay or if we are going to make this a scream your harangue into a conch day i would like to re-up that since the trade last year jalen and the bleeding harts an absolutely ridiculous +19/100 in 1908 possessions. take that for data

    Booker or Mitchell would give the Knicks another guy who can break down a defense which is something the Knicks probably need

    The problem with Booker is you have to include Randle to match his $50mm salary, it reduces Donte to a bench role, and it opens up a hole at PF that’s hard to fill. Everything he adds comes after that subtraction, making the net plus less exciting.

    Mitchell reduces Brunson by taking the ball out of his hands sometimes but maybe we should go that route just to preserve Brunson for the next 6 years. Dude takes a massive beating.

    I’m not into paying multiple one-way players max money. Brunson is surely getting the max next year. Neither Booker nor Mitchell seem like ideal guys to pair with him.

    DDV may not be ideal either, but he’s going to get paid less than 1/4 of what Booker or Spida will make in 2026-27. I’d rather pay big money to a somewhat less efficient shot-creating wing or big who is a plus defender than blow it all on one of those two and have one of the worst defensive backcourts in the league. DDV’s off-the-ball defense seems pretty impactful to me, to the point where it largely offsets the $40M+ you are paying for whatever the EPM difference means compared to the BPM difference.

    I won’t be disgusted if they go in that direction, but not thrilled either.

    This article was written by someone from The Center for Immigration Studies.

    “The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) is an American anti-immigration think tank. It favors far lower immigration numbers and produces analyses to further those views. The CIS was founded by historian Otis L. Graham and eugenicist and white nationalist John Tanton in 1985 as a spin-off of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). It is one of a number of anti-immigration organizations founded by Tanton, along with FAIR and NumbersUSA.

    I didn’t come her to argue politic but come on. All of what you said may or may not be true, but you didn’t dispute the data. Are you trying to tell me many of the “new” jobs aren’t being swallowed up by people who have questionable legal right to be here and are competing with citizens? Really?

    If you want to argue the organization this professor writes for is horrible because the founder was a eugenicist (your opinion) then Margaret Sanger says hello. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

    The NY Times seem to think this fellow was credible enough to publish him in an opinion post: https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/01/06/do-immigrants-take-jobs-from-american-born-workers/unskilled-workers-lose-out-to-immigrants

    A ten second Google search finds that.

    The Times publishes racist mush on its Opinions page all the time. I’m not saying this qualifies, as I haven’t read it. Just that the Times Opinion page has a very low bar for entry, especially compared to what the news operation does. I know a lot of Times reporters are mortified by what appears in that section.

    Mitchell reduces Brunson by taking the ball out of his hands sometimes but maybe we should go that route just to preserve Brunson for the next 6 years. Dude takes a massive beating.

    I’m completely agnostic on the Mitchell but he certainly solves the back up pg black hole and both can play effectively off the ball. On the defensive side problems are created. They would make for a pretty rolicking offense.

    The Times publishes racist mush on its Opinions page all the time. I’m not saying this qualifies, as I haven’t read it. Just that the Times Opinion page has a very low bar for entry, especially compared to what the news operation does. I know a lot of Times reporters are mortified by what appears in that section.

    Yeah, many NY Times reporters threw a hissy fit when a sitting US Senator wrote an op ed piece, so I’m not using NY Times reporter’s sensibilities as a “gold standard”.

    What are everybody’s thoughts on adding an additional elite shot creator versus adding another lower usage defensive type player like Bridges?

    I dunno, I’d rather have the former I think.

    BPL, I published a Sunday NYT editorial a few years back. I think this clearly proves that the NYT op ed section is not an authority for truth, justice, or the American way, even if “a senator” published there, too.

    Tell your weepy son of a Bethlehem steel worker to pick vegetables in CA or wash out my toilet in a hotel. I’m sure it’s all one-to-one.

    I’m in London now — will they understand if I just ask for bleach here?

    OG upgraded to probable!

    Watch him not play now just for Dolan’s Razor’s sake

    The problem with these job numbers is less about illegals and more about how the pay doesn’t match today’s cost of living. Hell, some of these new jobs are probably 2nd jobs.

    Brunson and Booker can play without the ball in their hands, I’m not so sure about Donovan. I know he has played with another fairly high usage guard in Cleveland I just haven’t paid much attention to that team. I’d be happy if we got Bridges but probably happier if we added another elite creator

    JK — unlike my last post, this one I don’t feel very confident about. I think it’s the hope that last year’s Mikal was not a mirage. He was a bit of an offensive monster, albeit briefly. I think if Julius comes back as good as new, then Mikal makes more sense, especially if you feel his struggles have been because he, you know, plays for the Nets. If not, then I’m not sure Mitchell makes more sense due to redundancy — Booker might make more sense.

    Just back from my last Euroleague game of the year,
    Booker’s my secret dream, he’s listed as 6-6 (like Mikal and 5 inches more than Mitchell), he showed he can play off the ball and (alert: eye test) I think he’s a better defender than advertised.

    OG news are good and meaningful, he changes our team so much, but let ease him in carefully…

    P.S.
    I know trading for Booker could be an issue because 99% Julius must be in the trade and that creates a hole at PF, but I think they can carefully plan a strategy before giving the green light.

    OTOH Adding Mikal should be smoother.

    I know it’s been said here many times, but I’m still incredibly jealous of the OKC model… and it has proven to be even more effective than when they started it:

    Get excess draft picks through trades and draft your entire roster. Coach them up. Only take on undervalued or expiring contracts. Sometimes you even cut the draftees that aren’t working out… doesn’t matter because you have so many picks.

    Just because we’re in New York doesn’t mean we can’t run the team this way. Anyway… I still love our team, I just marvel at what the Thunder have built.

    I’m way more into the Mikal camp than Booker or Spida. Mikal was the second best player on a finals team, and kicked ass last year as a go to guy for the Nets. Plus, he’s on a great contract and there’s the Villanova connection. I’d be fine with overpaying as a cost of doing business with the Nets.

    Ess-dog, I agree with you completely. IMO the part you glossed over is the near-infinite return on just a few years of tanking. They were a 50-win team in 2005 and were back to 50 wins by 2010. In between, they drafted such a king’s ransom of talent that they are asset billionaires for the foreseeable future really just from the return of selling high on those guys — after riding them to a 60-win season and finals run.

    Just because we’re in New York doesn’t mean we can’t run the team this way. Anyway… I still love our team, I just marvel at what the Thunder have built.

    The killer part of this is that it’s the opposite. Just because we’re in New York means we are uniquely able to run the team this way, because if we assemble a Durant/Westbook/Harden/Ibaka type of squad we can afford to back up the Brinks truck to keep the band together if we want to, even more so in that apron-less era.

    The funny thing is that the folks who brutally disparaged the hybrid method are the same folks that are saying yeah, we’re good now, but if we only had drafted so and so in 2021 we’d be a contender!

    The funny thing is that the folks who brutally disparaged the hybrid method are the same folks that are saying yeah, we’re good now, but if we only had drafted so and so in 2021 we’d be a contender!

    That’s not an inconsistent position. We may be pretty good right now for a small window if things break our way. OKC is virtually guaranteed to be elite for at least a decade even if they have a lot of bad luck, have injuries to major pieces, miss on most draft picks, etc.

    In other words we used to be homeless, now we own a home and a car and feel rich, but we can easily lose it all with a big medical bill or something. In contrast, OKC are billionaires with generational wealth so vast that it’s virtually impossible to fail.

    It’s possible to appreciate not being homeless anymore while grasping how much better the billionaire’s position is.

    if og is truly healthy it’s time to reorient back to this year. we lost randle, but we also gained new deuce and can pray that mitch is playing himself back into shape for some killer 20 minutes playoff stints. bojan becomes more useful in jalen’s rest minutes if you have og and mitch to pair him with. jalen/og/ihart plus 2 of hart/ddv/deuce doesn’t exactly smell like the core of a finals team, yet it gives us a genuine two way group with some spacing for 3s and jalen — not something we’ve had in this recent iteration. this is the sort of thing you need to slightly increase you chance in a high vol series against a better team, if we are lucky enough for it to come to that.

    The problem with these job numbers is less about illegals and more about how the pay doesn’t match today’s cost of living. Hell, some of these new jobs are probably 2nd jobs.

    Let me generalize a bit. Capital by nature craves cheap labor and undocumented immigrants are a prime target. For example, they make up a good part of the underpaid restaurant staff in New York. Yes, parts of American capital benefit from the situation, and we do, too. That having been said, it is conspiratorial to believe that immigrants are intentionally allowed to America for that purpose alone or in order to change the demographics of the country in favor of the Democratic Party. It racist and xenophobic, as in the case of channels like FoxNews, to complain day and night about undocumented immigrants breaking the law. There are indeed individual cases, but there is no scientific study showing that crime rate among undocumented immigrants is higher than among the rest of Americans.

    There about 11 million undocumented immigrants in the country, which seems a huge number, but they make up just 3% of the population. Those who believe that wealth disparities are caused by that 3% and not the deregulatory neoliberal policies that have been followed by both Republican and Democratic administrations since the late 70s are terribly uninformed.

    Those who, in many cases out of desperation, line behind the so called MAGA movement simply don’t know their history. If America was “great” (don’t know about great, but definitely better than now) at some point in its past in the 50s and 60s, this is because insurance, finance, and real estate sectors were kept in check, top earner individual tax rate was over 90%, and corporate tax at around 40%. This is meant less financialization and more public money available to invest in cheap college, in infrastructure, and so on and so forth. In short, it meant more affordable life for the middle class. It is quite the opposite these days, and, hence, the frustration. Immigrants, however, are not the true cause thereof.

    ptmilo, let’s not count our OG’s before they hatch. Another yelp and 3-week absence is always on the table.

    Like OG, both Brunson and J-Hart are listed as PROBABLE and will be game time decisions…

    let’s not count our OG’s before they hatch. Another yelp and 3-week absence is always on the table.

    Thanks Pags, you’re the sunshine of this blog 😀

    Pags, you might be right but I’ve grown weary of thinking certain teams at set up for some extended period of glory. Shia might get hurt or decide he doesn’t want to live in OKC or he might go crazy and decide to start carrying guns at strip clubs and get in fights with minors. Or some of their secondary players might decide to leave for more money or bigger roles somewhere else. Dallas hasn’t really done shit with Luka despite him being a generational talent. Memphis was young and supposed to dominate for years. Shit changes quick in the NBA.

    Like OG, both Brunson and J-Hart are listed as PROBABLE and will be game time decisions…

    Oh for crying out loud… why even play OG if we’re just gonna punt the game by holding Brunson out?

    And why punt the game when we have a very tough remaining schedule and aren’t even clear of the play-in?

    “That’s not an inconsistent position. We may be pretty good right now for a small window if things break our way. OKC is virtually guaranteed to be elite for at least a decade even if they have a lot of bad luck, have injuries to major pieces, miss on most draft picks, etc.

    In other words we used to be homeless, now we own a home and a car and feel rich, but we can easily lose it all with a big medical bill or something. In contrast, OKC are billionaires with generational wealth so vast that it’s virtually impossible to fail.

    It’s possible to appreciate not being homeless anymore while grasping how much better the billionaire’s position is.”

    This is absurd. It’s a completely inconsistent position.

    Keep in mind that OKC will eventually have to deal with salary cap issues, and their continued success will depend on either continuing to draft well or forming a young but capped out all-in team. Each requires threading a needle of sorts.

    I trust that Presti can do it, but lots of (maybe most) GMs would have fucked something up, even after sucking for a couple/few years of tanking.

    The folks who utterly dismissed the hybrid method need to take the L, or stop with the “if only we didn’t trade out of X pick” stuff. You can’t have it both ways.

    Pags, you might be right but I’ve grown weary of thinking certain teams at set up for some extended period of glory. Shia might get hurt or decide he doesn’t want to live in OKC or he might go crazy and decide to start carrying guns at strip clubs and get in fights with minors. Or some of their secondary players might decide to leave for more money or bigger roles somewhere else.

    My point exactly. If Shai does this, they can fall back on Williams, Holmgren, and the superstar they can easily afford with their massive pile of draft capital. If their secondary players leave, they have the picks to draft or acquire replacements. And why would they leave? They are already an elite team, and the current CBA does a lot to level the financial playing field between small and big markets.

    Dallas hasn’t won shit with Luka because they’ve made stupid moves, like cheaping out on re-signing a future all-NBA guard for the pocket change we just paid to DDV. Even then they are looking more like a true contender than we are. Luka is only 24 and we have established that the nuts and bolts they need around him are far more available than chrome & leather.

    Memphis has had about the unluckiest season in NBA history, but they are far from dead. In fact, history has shown that one of the best ways for a pretty good team to improve is to have major injuries that give them a draft windfall (see: 1996 San Antonio Spurs). They do have their own pick in 2024 and with the 7th worst record, a good shot at the high lottery.

    Shit changes quick, but some shit changes slow. Bron is still a top 10 player in year 21. The Sixers are still contenders (with a healthy Embiid) even though the process ended 8 years ago and many of its benefits were sabotaged by Bryan Colangelo. It’s certainly possible for a billionaire to end up homeless, but a lot more astronomically unlikely stuff has to happen than it would for a middle class working stiff like us.

    Keep in mind that OKC will eventually have to deal with salary cap issues, and their continued success will depend on either continuing to draft well or forming a young but capped out all-in team. Each requires threading a needle of sorts.

    So will we! In fact we already are, as we are set to lose a guy this offseason who has been our second most valuable player.

    Every team benefits from drafting well vs. drafting poorly, but OKC “needs to draft well” to a lesser extent than anyone else because they have like infinity picks. The more changes you have to get lucky, the less critical any individual chance is. We need to draft well too if we don’t incinerate our picks, and we’ll be doing it under much heavier constraints with our smaller number of lower quality picks.

    “Shit changes quick, but some shit changes slow. Bron is still a top 10 player in year 21. The Sixers are still contenders (with a healthy Embiid) even though the process ended 8 years ago and many of its benefits were sabotaged by Bryan Colangelo.”

    The Cavs didn’t win anything despite having the GOAT, until the hometown kid came back for an encore. The Sixers’ owenership ran out of patience after being the league laughingstock for numerous years, and they haven’t gotten out of the second round.

    If Presti didn’t cash in on his failure (it’s obvious that he totally fucked up by not keeping Harden) he’d be in the same boat we are in right now. Kudos to him for doing so.

    But the reality is, we have no idea how tanking under a non-Presti GM would have worked out since 2020. We DO know that we are a very solid playoff team (when healthy) with surplus picks and a favorable cap sheet under Leon’s stewardship. We are in a competitive situation with the Cavs right now with more future leverage than they have. Remember how they were held up as an example of what could have been? How’s that goink?

    “So will we! In fact we already are, as we are set to lose a guy this offseason who has been our second most valuable player.”

    Agreed! But the same alarmism was raised with Mitch. How did that work out?

    OKC is better than us right now, has a younger roster, and has a way bigger stack of resources to improve in the future.

    I’m pleasantly surprised at what Leon Rose has been able to achieve building the way he has built. He has hit home runs and gotten lots of surplus value on several free agents and that is not easy to do. He deserves lots of credit. There’s more than one way to build a contender. But the team that did the optimal rebuild is in better shape than the team that optimally executed the hybrid method, that seems obvious to me.

    I think it’s less about the team doing the optimal rebuild and more about the team doing its preferred method optimally and benefitting from advantages that the Knicks did not have.

    And my main point is that Leons’s critics continually point out that Leon did NOT optimally execute the hybrid method. He apparently fucked up royally, and still here we are!

    And you can’t separate Leon from landing the best free agent signing in Knicks history, solely because he is Leon and he has a relationship with Rick Brunson and Tom Thibodeau.

    OKC drafted a future MVP 3 years in a row and won absolutely 0 titles, it’s hard to win a championship.

    Presti’s best move, in relation to the on-field results, was stealing SGA from the Clips.
    He was considered a good young player, 6th in the ROY ballot, but very few (and certainly not LAC) viewed him as a top-5 MVP candidate at the time.

    It changed their timeline just as getting Brunson did for us.

    (They have more bullet for the future obviously, maybe even too much).

    also somehow SGA is going to miss at least 2 more games. Sure glad they rushed him back to beat the Knicks!

    Agreed! But the same alarmism was raised with Mitch. How did that work out?

    Not great, because he can’t stay healthy and is unplayable in many situations. But our cap situation was much more flexible then, so this is apples to organes.

    OKC drafted a future MVP 3 years in a row and won absolutely 0 titles, it’s hard to win a championship.

    This is purely because they were too poor/cheap to keep that team together. We would have been able to, and championships would absolutely have followed.

    News Update:

    OG will start, Deuce will go to the bench (I suppose it means that JB and J-Hart will both play)?

    Edit: Popper confirmed that JB will play

    “Not great, because he can’t stay healthy and is unplayable in many situations. But our cap situation was much more flexible then, so this is apples to organes.

    Not really, it was extremely similar. We could only offer Mitch a certain amount, and we can only offer iHart a certain amount. And who’s to know how healthy iHart can remain? He’s constantly nursing a sore achilles.

    But the team that did the optimal rebuild is in better shape than the team that optimally executed the hybrid method, that seems obvious to me.

    That’s because we did not optimally execute the hybrid. We only nailed the free agency part. The other part of the hybrid is making your picks.

    OKC pulled a hybrid, btw. They tanked one season, same as us.

    “The NY Times seem to think this fellow was credible enough to publish him in an opinion post: https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/01/06/do-immigrants-take-jobs-from-american-born-workers/unskilled-workers-lose-out-to-immigrants

    A ten second Google search finds that.”

    Wait, despite utter contempt from its rankk-in-file, the NYTimes publishes opinions from the extreme right? Doesn’t that suggest that the editorial staff believes that its readers should be exposed to a spectrum of opinions, including those from blogs initiated by white supremacists?

    The Cavs didn’t win anything despite having the GOAT, until the hometown kid came back for an encore. The Sixers’ owenership ran out of patience after being the league laughingstock for numerous years, and they haven’t gotten out of the second round.

    Not my GOAT. But the Cavs had a 66-win season and made the NBA finals. I would love to “fail” like that. They also made zero other good roster moves after drafting the most obvious no. 1 overall in history, and still got more success out of it than we’ve had in 30 years.

    The Sixers also have made terrible moves following the process, denying its architect the fruits of his labor. Still, they have been a perennial 50-win team. They have enjoyed far more championship equity than we have now, and likely will for the rest of Embiid’s prime.

    If Presti didn’t cash in on his failure (it’s obvious that he totally fucked up by not keeping Harden) he’d be in the same boat we are in right now. Kudos to him for doing so.

    What failure? They got rid of him because they couldn’t afford him on top of KD+Russ, not because Presti didn’t want him.

    We are in a competitive situation with the Cavs right now with more future leverage than they have. Remember how they were held up as an example of what could have been? How’s that goink?

    Do we have more future leverage? They have a former #1 overall who compares favorably to KG at the same age, giving them massively more internal upside than we have. Does the couple of excess mid/late first rounders that Leon is loading onto his incineratin’ shovel really compare to that?

    Not really, it was extremely similar. We could only offer Mitch a certain amount, and we can only offer iHart a certain amount. And who’s to know how healthy iHart can remain? He’s constantly nursing a sore achilles.

    Not similar. We were able to offer Mitch more than his market value, while we can only offer iHart substantially less. iHart has played in 152 of 156 possible games for is. Using that as a demerit in this era is a Wembanyama-level stretch.

    “This is purely because they were too poor/cheap to keep that team together. We would have been able to, and championships would absolutely have followed.”

    But this makes the point that there are always confounders built into any rebuilding process. If we could have been “golden” by properly executing the “make your picks” part of the hybrid method, then the whole dissent against the hybrid method fails on its face, because ANY method relies on proficient execution of all aspect, doesn’t it? In other words, if you keep drafting duds in the draft, the down to the studs rebuild also fails, doesn’t it?

    ‘We were able to offer Mitch more than his market value…”

    I suggest that you go back to the threads from the pre-Mitch signing era, particularly TNFH’s incessant worrying about how we were about to lose Mitch for nothing. Many here assumed that his market value was well above what we signed him for. Which is probably what is going on right now.

    If we could have been “golden” by properly executing the “make your picks” part of the hybrid method, then the whole dissent against the hybrid method fails on its face, because ANY method relies on proficient execution of all aspect, doesn’t it?

    I never said we’d be golden had we made our picks, but we’d be better off than today. I think the hybrid method is categorically inferior to the true rebuild precisely because having a high ceiling required needle-threading with very little margin for error.

    OKC is better than golden, and they haven’t nailed every pick by any means. You don’t need to nail every pick with the true rebuild, just a few in many chances. In contrast, incinerating or missing on an individual pick materially lowers our already much lower ceiling.

    But it is unfair to solely judge the method on a team that a) had significant advantages over what Leon inherited and b) has possibly the very best GM in the NBA. It would be more fair if you compared how Presti would have executed the hybrid method compared to Leon if he was forced to by an owner like Dolan (the fixed variable in this scenario.) In that sense, I would agree that he would largely have done as well because his expertise at the draft would have offset his lack of access to Brunson. But I doubt that he would have done much better if he was unable to land Brunson because he didn’t have the nepotism advantage.

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